Vince Young - Stud, or Dud?

[Scott Campbell]

There have been compelling arguments made on both sides of the Vince Young issue, and I'm curious to see what PackerRats posters think now that they've carefully weighed both arguments.

May the best logic win.

[Bossman641]

There have been compelling arguments made on both sides of the Vince Young issue

Can you kindly point me towards the compelling pro VY arguments? I must have missed those.

[MJZiggy]

There have been compelling arguments made on both sides of the Vince Young issue

Can you kindly point me towards the compelling pro VY arguments? I must have missed those.

He played well in college.

[sheepshead]

I never thought he would have much of a pro career. Still dont.

[cpk1994]

I never thought he would have much of a pro career. Still dont.

This.

[]{ilr]3]

He's too dumb to be an NFL QB.

[Scott Campbell]

This thing is just too close to call. Like Al Franken in Minnesota, it may take a recount to sort it all out.

[Bossman641]

These results scream playmaker. I can't decide if Partial has voted yet though.

[th87]

He'll need to diversify his game to be successful. He caught defenses napping in his first year. Remember, when the NFL first saw Vick, they didn't know how to defend him either. Same with the wildcat offense.

Give coordinators an offseason to deal with such gimmicks, and watch them disappear.

[vince]

{ilr]3]He's too dumb to be an NFL QB.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-03-01-young-wonderlic_x.htm


Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?
By Pete Dougherty, Green Bay Press-Gazette and Jim Wyatt, The Tennessean

INDIANAPOLIS — Vince Young's horribly low score on the Wonderlic intelligence test — reportedly 6 of a possible 50 — has given teams at the top of the NFL Draft plenty of extra work to do. It also might end up changing how the picks fall at the top of the first round.

Going into the NFL Scouting Combine, the junior quarterback from Texas looked certain to be one of the top four picks. But after scoring so poorly on the Wonderlic, Young's status as a top-5 or even top-10 pick could be in jeopardy.

ProFootballTalk.com broke the story of Young's score Sunday, and several NFL scouts confirmed it. Any score less than 15 is extremely low for a quarterback, and most teams want players at that position to score at least a 20.

"It raises a huge red flag," said Jeep Chryst, a former NFL assistant attending the combine as an at-large scout.

The NFL did its best to silence talk about Young's test. Combine officials said the score of 6 was inaccurate. Titans GM Floyd Reese said he'd heard the first test had been administered or graded incorrectly. Texans GM Charley Casserly also disputed Young's score Sunday, saying it was inaccurate.

Young took the test again — on Sunday — and made a 16.

Still, teams will have to determine Young's ability to grasp a complex NFL playbook.

[Scott Campbell]

He scored better on the Wonderlic than he did in this poll.

[Oscar]

He scored better on the Wonderlic than he is in this poll.

:lol:

[]{ilr]3]

See if you are smarter than Vince Young

http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/existence/wonderlic.html

I scored 25 (Average) and I kick myself for missing the ones that I did trying to maintain the time limit. Even if the questions were different, I would expect to score higher if I were to take the test again like VY was allowed to.

This is not the complete test, just a sample.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty has taken the wonderlic. It isn't that hard, but then again Ty is fairly bright. I scored a 41, after a hard night of drinking, 4 hours of sleep, and not knowing i was gonna take it. I took it again recently...scored a 37...Ty is getting dumber every year (taking away cheap shot chances)...no suprise to many rat posters.

A six or 16 ain't good. One has to wonder how he got thru his rigorous UT classes. :roll:

That type of score is borderline for admittance to a junior college..the type that churns out medical assitants, massage therapist, surgical tech. I had a friend who worked as an admissions counselor at the high tech institute...also known as Bryman..in Orlando.
http://www.hightechinstitute.edu/

Regaled me with stories of potential students that couldn't score....think it was around 13 or so to get in...and he had to help them cheat to get in. Admission is a sales job...you gotta get them in..or you are fired.

Just in case any rats were up at night and thinking about switching careers..you better have the score to get in.

Here is the world renowned West Coast College:http://www.wccollege.com/catalog/School%20Catalog%20Jan%202006.pdf


All applicants must pass the Wonderlic Scholastic Level Exam (SLE) with a minimum score of 13. The Wonderlic SLE is a nationally recognized “Ability to Benefit” test.

they require a 13. VY upon initial testing couldn't even get in there.

[The Leaper]

He doesn't impress me as the kind of guy who is going to put in the film work needed to be an NFL QB. He got by on athletic ability alone for 20 years...and ultimately that will become his downfall.

[Lurker64]

Vince Young is an athlete and not a quarterback. You can win games with an athlete, but you can't win championships without a quarterback. Titans would do better this year with Collins at the helm.

He'd be a hell of a wildcat QB at this point, but #3 overall absolutely isn't worth that. 2006 is turning out to be one of the most disappointing drafts in recent memory.

[Partial]

Vince Young is an athlete and not a quarterback. You can win games with an athlete, but you can't win championships without a quarterback. Titans would do better this year with Collins at the helm.

He'd be a hell of a wildcat QB at this point, but #3 overall absolutely isn't worth that. 2006 is turning out to be one of the most disappointing drafts in recent memory.

You can win games with an athlete. Same way with an elite pocket passer. QB is a position that too many people take lightly. With a star, it's infinitely easier to build your team as your offense is immensely more dangerous immediately, allowing you to move the picks to D.

History shows that star QBs give you a better chance of winning a superbowl than an above average journeyman, for example. Your statement should read "You can't consistently win championships without a superstar quarterback".

With that said, I think VY will be a very good player. He's dumb, sure, you won't find anyone to disagree with that, but he has a knack for the big play.

If I'm down by 5 with 80 seconds left, and I'm on my 50 yard line, the list of QBs I want to win the game are as follows:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Eli Manning
4. Big Ben
5. Donovan McNabb
6. Phil Rivers
7. Jay Cutler
8. Vince Young
9. Matt Hasselback
10. Matt Ryan

Put Young in a position where he isn't expected to command a pass first aerial attack and I think he'll do very well.

[Zool]

Vince Young is an athlete and not a quarterback. You can win games with an athlete, but you can't win championships without a quarterback. Titans would do better this year with Collins at the helm.

He'd be a hell of a wildcat QB at this point, but #3 overall absolutely isn't worth that. 2006 is turning out to be one of the most disappointing drafts in recent memory.

You can win games with an athlete. Same way with an elite pocket passer. QB is a position that too many people take lightly. With a star, it's infinitely easier to build your team as your offense is immensely more dangerous immediately, allowing you to move the picks to D.

History shows that star QBs give you a better chance of winning a superbowl than an above average journeyman, for example. Your statement should read "You can't consistently win championships without a superstar quarterback".

With that said, I think VY will be a very good player. He's dumb, sure, you won't find anyone to disagree with that, but he has a knack for the big play.

If I'm down by 5 with 80 seconds left, and I'm on my 50 yard line, the list of QBs I want to win the game are as follows:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Eli Manning
4. Big Ben
5. Donovan McNabb
6. Phil Rivers
7. Jay Cutler
8. Vince Young
9. Matt Hasselback
10. Matt Ryan

Put Young in a position where he isn't expected to command a pass first aerial attack and I think he'll do very well.

I'm OK with the list except for McNabb and Hasselback. I know you love you some dark chocolate but that guy just never looks impressive. Hasselback, he always looks like hes dancing and nervous. I guess to support your insanity, I'd take Young for 1 drive too. But fuck all if I'd take that quitter for a full season.

[MJZiggy]

How can you possibly have 50 yards to go with 80 seconds on the clock and not consider that a situation that calls for a pass-first aerial attack? Maybe if you had all your time outs left and a couple of the other team's as well...

[Zool]

How can you possibly have 50 yards to go with 80 seconds on the clock and not consider that a situation that calls for a pass-first aerial attack? Maybe if you had all your time outs left and a couple of the other team's as well...

I was more confused by how the midfield line is considered 'my 50 yard line'

Mainly its Youngs running ability. Put 4 WR set on the D is probably going to go dime and rush 3 or 4. I'd take Quitter McCrypants in that situation sitting at about 230lb's. But for a QB to manage a team and a season, I don't like him. And now he's starting to cry from the bench. Hellova teammate. Quits on his team then complains to the media when he can't get his job back. At least keep it in house. Very few things in sports irk me more than when a player runs crying to the media about things.

[cpk1994]

How can you possibly have 50 yards to go with 80 seconds on the clock and not consider that a situation that calls for a pass-first aerial attack? Maybe if you had all your time outs left and a couple of the other team's as well...

I was more confused by how the midfield line is considered 'my 50 yard line'

Mainly its Youngs running ability. Put 4 WR set on the D is probably going to go dime and rush 3 or 4. I'd take Quitter McCrypants in that situation sitting at about 230lb's. But for a QB to manage a team and a season, I don't like him. And now he's starting to cry from the bench. Hellova teammate. Quits on his team then complains to the media when he can't get his job back. At least keep it in house. Very few things in sports irk me more than when a player runs crying to the media about things.You forgot the part where the players mommy yells at the media to "Leave my baby alone!".

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He doesn't impress me as the kind of guy who is going to put in the film work needed to be an NFL QB. He got by on athletic ability alone for 20 years...and ultimately that will become his downfall.

Yeah, but it will be a glorious and wealthy downfall!!

[MJZiggy]

How can you possibly have 50 yards to go with 80 seconds on the clock and not consider that a situation that calls for a pass-first aerial attack? Maybe if you had all your time outs left and a couple of the other team's as well...

I was more confused by how the midfield line is considered 'my 50 yard line'

Mainly its Youngs running ability. Put 4 WR set on the D is probably going to go dime and rush 3 or 4. I'd take Quitter McCrypants in that situation sitting at about 230lb's. But for a QB to manage a team and a season, I don't like him. And now he's starting to cry from the bench. Hellova teammate. Quits on his team then complains to the media when he can't get his job back. At least keep it in house. Very few things in sports irk me more than when a player runs crying to the media about things.

Didn't he kinda fumble a lot in those situations? I seem to remember a few turnovers...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here's another myth debunked. Here are the Titans wins in 2007:

Beat Jacksonville, 13-10. No 4th quarter heroics from Young. 0 4th quarter points.

Beat New Orleans handily, 31-14. No 4th quarter heroics. 7 4th quarter offensive points. Young did have his only 4th quarter TD in a Titans victory all season.

Beat Atlanta 20-13. No 4th quarter heroics. 0 4th quarter points. The game winning TD came in the 3rd quarter and was a 76 yard interception return.

The only game he didn't play was a 38-36 win over Houston.

Beat Oakland 13-9. No 4th quarter heroics. 3 4th quarter points (one FG).

Beat Carolina 20-7. No 4th quarter heroics. 7 4th quarter points (rushing TD by White).

Beat Houston 28-20. No 4th quarter heroics. 7 4th quarter points (rushing TD by Brown).

Beat Kansas City 26-17. No 4th quarter heroics. 6 4th quarter points (two FGs).

Beat NY Jets 10-6. No 4th quarter heroics. 0 4th quarter points.

Beat Indianapolis 16-10. Kerry Collins beat Jim Sorgi. 0 4th quarter points.

SUMMARY

Young did not have EVEN ONE 4th quarter comeback victory in 2007. He threw exactly one TD pass and had zero TD runs in the 4th quarter of the Titans victories.

The Titans were 2-0 with Collins at the helm that year. They were 8-6 with Young.

He did have a few game winning comebacks his rookie year (a year the Titans went 8-8), but that 10-6 (actually 8-6 with him at the helm) record in 2007 featured ZERO 4th quarter comebacks.

And again, the Titans defense was 8th in points allowed, 5th in yards allowed, 3rd in interceptions, and 7th in sacks. Young threw for 9 TDs with 17 interceptions.

[Partial]

You can twist facts however you want Harv... You're acting rather Snake like. Slippery sidewinder bangers.

On Sunday November 26, 2006 Vince Young led his first NFL fourth-quarter comeback, against the New York Giants. With the Giants leading 21-0, the tide suddenly changed after New York quarterback Eli Manning threw an interception to Pacman Jones. Young subsequently led a scoring drive, throwing a touchdown pass to ex-Longhorn teammate Bo Scaife. After the Titans forced a three-and-out, Young ran an option play for a touchdown on the next drive. Another successful stop led to Young throwing his second touchdown of the quarter. After another Eli Manning interception to Pacman Jones, this time with only 30 seconds left in the game, Young calmly led his team down the field for Rob Bironas' game-winning field goal; the final score was 24-21 over the Giants. It is statistically the best performance of Vince Young's NFL career: he went 24/35 for 249 yards and two touchdowns, with a 107.9 passer rating. He also rushed 10 times for 69 yards and a touchdown.
A week later, Young led another come-from-behind victory over the Indianapolis Colts who, prior to the game, held a 10-1 record. Rob Bironas iced the game with a 60-yard field goal. The 14-point comeback marked the first time in NFL history that a rookie quarterback led two 14+ point comebacks in the same season.
On Sunday December 24, 2006, Vince Young led yet another come-from-behind victory over the Buffalo Bills who, along with the Titans, had a 7-7 record and were competing for an AFC wild card playoff spot. This time the comeback was from 9 points down after Rian Lindell kicked a 24-yard field goal at the end of the 3rd quarter to make the score 29-20 in favor of the Bills. Young then led the Titans on a 9-play, 62-yard drive that spanned 4:16 and ended with a 29-yard touchdown pass to Brandon Jones to make the score 27-29. After a three and out by the Buffalo Bills, Young again led his team on a 7:15, 14-play scoring drive that culminated in a 30-yard field goal by Rob Bironas, putting the Titans on top 30-29. Bironas' kick would prove to be the winning points. Young ended the day going 13-of-20 for 183 yards, two touchdowns, and no interceptions, with a rating of 127.7. He also rushed 8 times for 61 yards and 1 touchdown.

[th87]

Here's another myth debunked. Here are the Titans wins in 2007:

Beat Jacksonville, 13-10. No 4th quarter heroics from Young. 0 4th quarter points.

Beat New Orleans handily, 31-14. No 4th quarter heroics. 7 4th quarter offensive points. Young did have his only 4th quarter TD in a Titans victory all season.

Beat Atlanta 20-13. No 4th quarter heroics. 0 4th quarter points. The game winning TD came in the 3rd quarter and was a 76 yard interception return.

The only game he didn't play was a 38-36 win over Houston.

Beat Oakland 13-9. No 4th quarter heroics. 3 4th quarter points (one FG).

Beat Carolina 20-7. No 4th quarter heroics. 7 4th quarter points (rushing TD by White).

Beat Houston 28-20. No 4th quarter heroics. 7 4th quarter points (rushing TD by Brown).

Beat Kansas City 26-17. No 4th quarter heroics. 6 4th quarter points (two FGs).

Beat NY Jets 10-6. No 4th quarter heroics. 0 4th quarter points.

Beat Indianapolis 16-10. Kerry Collins beat Jim Sorgi. 0 4th quarter points.

SUMMARY

Young did not have EVEN ONE 4th quarter comeback victory in 2007. He threw exactly one TD pass and had zero TD runs in the 4th quarter of the Titans victories.

The Titans were 2-0 with Collins at the helm that year. They were 8-6 with Young.

He did have a few game winning comebacks his rookie year (a year the Titans went 8-8), but that 10-6 (actually 8-6 with him at the helm) record in 2007 featured ZERO 4th quarter comebacks.

And again, the Titans defense was 8th in points allowed, 5th in yards allowed, 3rd in interceptions, and 7th in sacks. Young threw for 9 TDs with 17 interceptions.

You just don't get it, do you? VY has the "It" factor. All these facts and logic are irrelevant compared to "It".

[th87]

On Sunday November 26, 2006 Vince Young led his first NFL fourth-quarter comeback, against the New York Giants. With the Giants leading 21-0, the tide suddenly changed after New York quarterback Eli Manning threw an interception to Pacman Jones. Young subsequently led a scoring drive, throwing a touchdown pass to ex-Longhorn teammate Bo Scaife. After the Titans forced a three-and-out, Young ran an option play for a touchdown on the next drive. Another successful stop led to Young throwing his second touchdown of the quarter. After another Eli Manning interception to Pacman Jones, this time with only 30 seconds left in the game, Young calmly led his team down the field for Rob Bironas' game-winning field goal; the final score was 24-21 over the Giants. It is statistically the best performance of Vince Young's NFL career: he went 24/35 for 249 yards and two touchdowns, with a 107.9 passer rating. He also rushed 10 times for 69 yards and a touchdown.
A week later, Young led another come-from-behind victory over the Indianapolis Colts who, prior to the game, held a 10-1 record. Rob Bironas iced the game with a 60-yard field goal. The 14-point comeback marked the first time in NFL history that a rookie quarterback led two 14+ point comebacks in the same season.
On Sunday December 24, 2006, Vince Young led yet another come-from-behind victory over the Buffalo Bills who, along with the Titans, had a 7-7 record and were competing for an AFC wild card playoff spot. This time the comeback was from 9 points down after Rian Lindell kicked a 24-yard field goal at the end of the 3rd quarter to make the score 29-20 in favor of the Bills. Young then led the Titans on a 9-play, 62-yard drive that spanned 4:16 and ended with a 29-yard touchdown pass to Brandon Jones to make the score 27-29. After a three and out by the Buffalo Bills, Young again led his team on a 7:15, 14-play scoring drive that culminated in a 30-yard field goal by Rob Bironas, putting the Titans on top 30-29. Bironas' kick would prove to be the winning points. Young ended the day going 13-of-20 for 183 yards, two touchdowns, and no interceptions, with a rating of 127.7. He also rushed 8 times for 61 yards and 1 touchdown.

So what happened the following year? Ooh, I know.

Like Vick, teams figured him out. They learned that if you force Young to pass, he'll suck.

He needs to learn to pass to be successful.

Gimmicks don't last in the NFL.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So what happened the following year? Ooh, I know.

Like Vick, teams figured him out. They learned that if you force Young to pass, he'll suck.

Spot on. Three 4th quarter comebacks in two years from the guy with the "it" factor. Very impressive.

Aaron Rodgers = more 4th quarter comebacks in 2008 than Vince Young in 2007 and 2008 combined.
:D

[Partial]

So what happened the following year? Ooh, I know.

Like Vick, teams figured him out. They learned that if you force Young to pass, he'll suck.

Spot on. Three 4th quarter comebacks in two years from the guy with the "it" factor. Very impressive.

Aaron Rodgers = more 4th quarter comebacks in 2008 than Vince Young in 2007 and 2008 combined.
:D

Ummm... Rodgers hasn't brought a team back for a win.... ever.

[SkinBasket]

New York quarterback Eli Manning threw an interception to Pacman Jones....After the Titans forced a three-and-out...Another successful stop...After another Eli Manning interception to Pacman Jones...Rob Bironas' game-winning field goal...Rob Bironas iced the game with a 60-yard field goal....After a three and out by the Buffalo Bills...culminated in a 30-yard field goal by Rob Bironas

There's a whole lot of not Vince Young moments in those come from behind victories... Almost like his defense made stops and his kicker made some kicks that won the game. Or did Vince just slip on Jones' and Bironas' jerseys when no one was looking?

[Fritz]

It's the accuracy that's an issue for Young. Some scouts appear to think that accuracy can be improved upon over time, and others seem to think you got it or you don't.

I was hoping he'd slide to the Pack back when. Now I'm kinda glad he didn't. He doesn't seem to be in a good place. It seems uncertain now as to whether he'll ever be accurate enough to be successful. If he does get the accuracy, though, look out.

[pbmax]

So what happened the following year? Ooh, I know.

Like Vick, teams figured him out. They learned that if you force Young to pass, he'll suck.

Spot on. Three 4th quarter comebacks in two years from the guy with the "it" factor. Very impressive.

Aaron Rodgers = more 4th quarter comebacks in 2008 than Vince Young in 2007 and 2008 combined.
:D

Ummm... Rodgers hasn't brought a team back for a win.... ever.
Does Vince play defense too? Or is being in his presence so awe-inspiring that any defense would find its level of play raised just by watching him?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ummm... Rodgers hasn't brought a team back for a win.... ever.

2008 at Detroit

Of course, you've been told before that Rodgers brought the Packers to the game leading score four times and the game tying score once in the last 6 minutes of games last year, but in four of those games the defense lost it in the end. That doesn't even take into consideration the two times he got the team into FG position to win the game in the final seconds, but the kicker missed the game winning FG.

:talk:

[cpk1994]

Ummm... Rodgers hasn't brought a team back for a win.... ever.

2008 at Detroit

Of course, you've been told before that Rodgers brought the Packers to the game leading score four times and the game tying score once in the last 6 minutes of games last year, but in four of those games the defense lost it in the end. That doesn't even take into consideration the two times he got the team into FG position to win the game in the final seconds, but the kicker missed the game winning FG.

:talk:But you see It doesn't matter. The defense didn't blow those games. Rogders didn't get the job done when the ball was back in his hands.

God his bullshit is irritating.

[sheepshead]

Ummm... Rodgers hasn't brought a team back for a win.... ever.

2008 at Detroit

Of course, you've been told before that Rodgers brought the Packers to the game leading score four times and the game tying score once in the last 6 minutes of games last year, but in four of those games the defense lost it in the end. That doesn't even take into consideration the two times he got the team into FG position to win the game in the final seconds, but the kicker missed the game winning FG.

:talk:

Ted Thompson
George Bush
Aaron Rodgers
The Boogie Man
all the same thing to these people.

[Gunakor]

Ummm... Rodgers hasn't brought a team back for a win.... ever.

At least he still has the opportunity to.

[Fritz]

If Aaron Rodgers takes a teammate out to a club, and then brings the guy back again, is that a comeback?

[pbmax]

If Aaron Rodgers takes a teammate out to a club, and then brings the guy back again, is that a comeback?
You need to add some girls to this story Fritz or Bretsky is going to get all upset again.

I would prefer that my QBs have zero comebacks. I like front running. The best Packer (any team actually) teams took the lead and then milked the clock in the second half. Never let them breathe. Crush them.

Boy I hope September gets here soon.

[Fritz]

If Aaron Rodgers takes a teammate out to a club, and then brings the guy back again, is that a comeback?
You need to add some girls to this story Fritz or Bretsky is going to get all upset again.

I would prefer that my QBs have zero comebacks. I like front running. The best Packer (any team actually) teams took the lead and then milked the clock in the second half. Never let them breathe. Crush them.

Boy I hope September gets here soon.

I didn't want Bretsky or anyone else to misunderstand my use of the word "comeback"; thus no girls.

I agree with your take on comebacks. I prefer the air-pipe-throttling kind of victory, where your running back beats them into submission while your team has a good size lead.

[Pugger]

VY is a good QB from the neck down... :lol:

[Pacopete4]

whoops

[Fritz]

VY is a good QB from the neck down... :lol:

Pamela Anderson is a very good actress from the neck down...

[Scott Campbell]

VY is a good QB from the neck down... :lol:

Pamela Anderson is a very good actress from the neck down...


I thought she made pretty good use of her head in that one movie.

[SnakeLH2006]

Dude is a college QB. Not much of an NFL QB. Nuff said.

[Scott Campbell]

Sounds like Norm Chow thinks that Vince still has a chance.


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