Cutler an elite QB?

[KYPack]

One of the biggest stories of the '09 off-season is the Bears acquisition of Jay Cutler. Let's examine the notion that Cutler is one of the league's elite quarterbacks by looking at some key statistics last year and where he ranked . Cutler had an impressive season in a few categories, but was average to poor in some other key areas.
The yards and touchdowns are impressive, but they also a by-product of the high number of passes attempted.
The more a quarterback throws, the more yards and TDs he should accumulate. Completion percentage and passer rating are not dependent on attempts and, in those measures, Cutler was only middle-of-the-road last year. That fact is buttressed by his QB rating of 86. That rating puts him 16th in the league, right in the middle, where I think he belongs.
His Pro-Bowl status was gained by the pick for that spot dropping out of the game, former Packer QB Brett Favre. IMHO, that was a function of the selectors making their picks way too early. Neither Cutler or Favre were true pro-bowlers last season. Both QB's went out with a wimper, in a flurry of interceptions and team losses.
Cutler has a laser arm, but needs to improve in a number of areas to be an elite QB. He has a slow delivery, makes poor reads in the short game, and is suspect as a leader. He's a great prospect, and may yet be a great QB. But he ain't there yet.


CUTLER 2008 STATS


Total Rank


Yards 4,526 Third
TDs 25 Seventh
Comp. % 62.3 14th (tie)
INTs 18 Second
Rating 86.0 16th
Attempts 616 Second

[MadScientist]

Compared to anything the Bears have had in the last 2 decades, he is an elite QB. Compared to NFL standards, he has a ways to go, but could get there. Hopefully he was pushed up by good receivers in Denver instead of him making average receivers look like stars.

[Packnut]

When examining any qb, you have to look at the whole picture. He had a better year in 07 (all around preformance) than 08 IMO. The reason for that is simple. Last season he had about 150 more attempts. Denver's D sucked so he had to throw the ball much more. It's just simple math that more attempts = more picks.

Let's also remember, Cutler only has 2 full seasons. He's a very young QB who is still learning. He's not an elite QB. Neither is Rodgers. Manning and Brady are elite QB's.

Just like Rodgers, Cutler has the potential to be an elite QB. I do believe Rodgers has the edge simply do to the talent he has at WR. I expect him to have a better year than Cutler.

[Patler]

I've been waiting for a good thread to post this in, after the initial emotions subsided over the Cutler trade.

Last month I was at a dinner function and was seated at a table with a gentleman from Denver. He went to numerous Bronco games every year. A real football fanatic, very knowledgeable about the league and teams as a whole. (He would fit in good on this board!) He wanted to talk football all night, pro and college. Naturally, I eventually asked about his feelings regarding the Cutler trade.

He said right away that he had mixed emotions. He was glad to see Cutler gone from the Broncos. He said the guy had absolutely no leadership skills, and that he was unable to rally the team behind him. He had turned the fans off by his attitude long before the blow-up this off season. He had physical skills but lacked game skills, etc. etc. He said players seemed glad Cutler would be gone.

So, I asked, why the "mixed emotions"? The gentleman then revealed that he had lived in Denver about 15 years and had become a Bronco fan out of necessity. He actually lived his entire life before that in Chicago, was a Bears fan through and through, and couldn't stand the fact that he was stuck with Cutler again on a team he cheered for!! He said he would rather have Orton, less talented physically, but a guy who has been a winner and a team guy in college and the pros.

[MadScientist]

He said right away that he had mixed emotions. He was glad to see Cutler gone from the Broncos. He said the guy had absolutely no leadership skills, and that he was unable to rally the team behind him. He had turned the fans off by his attitude long before the blow-up this off season. He had physical skills but lacked game skills, etc. etc. He said players seemed glad Cutler would be gone.

He's in a new situation in Chicago where fans and from early reports, the team are ready to rally behind him. So the question is will this help him become a true leader, or is his lack of leadership skills set.

[Packnut]

I've been waiting for a good thread to post this in, after the initial emotions subsided over the Cutler trade.

Last month I was at a dinner function and was seated at a table with a gentleman from Denver. He went to numerous Bronco games every year. A real football fanatic, very knowledgeable about the league and teams as a whole. (He would fit in good on this board!) He wanted to talk football all night, pro and college. Naturally, I eventually asked about his feelings regarding the Cutler trade.

He said right away that he had mixed emotions. He was glad to see Cutler gone from the Broncos. He said the guy had absolutely no leadership skills, and that he was unable to rally the team behind him. He had turned the fans off by his attitude long before the blow-up this off season. He had physical skills but lacked game skills, etc. etc. He said players seemed glad Cutler would be gone.

So, I asked, why the "mixed emotions"? The gentleman then revealed that he had lived in Denver about 15 years and had become a Bronco fan out of necessity. He actually lived his entire life before that in Chicago, was a Bears fan through and through, and couldn't stand the fact that he was stuck with Cutler again on a team he cheered for!! He said he would rather have Orton, less talented physically, but a guy who has been a winner and a team guy in college and the pros.


Well, I hope Cutler's in-maturity is his down-fall. I would love to see him thrash around at QB. IF he fails, the Bears as a team and organization will implode. One can only hope..............

[Scott Campbell]

I watched Cutler in the 1st game against San Diego last year - the one the Ed Hochuli bailed him out of. I wouldn't have traded all those picks for the guy.

[KYPack]

When examining any qb, you have to look at the whole picture. He had a better year in 07 (all around preformance) than 08 IMO. The reason for that is simple. Last season he had about 150 more attempts. Denver's D sucked so he had to throw the ball much more. It's just simple math that more attempts = more picks.

Let's also remember, Cutler only has 2 full seasons. He's a very young QB who is still learning. He's not an elite QB. Neither is Rodgers. Manning and Brady are elite QB's.

Just like Rodgers, Cutler has the potential to be an elite QB. I do believe Rodgers has the edge simply do to the talent he has at WR. I expect him to have a better year than Cutler.

PN, You and I have gone at it at times, but this is an occasion when we both agree. I like our guy better mesself. ARod has shown me he has leadership skills. Rodgers sulks a bit at the wrong times, most young ones do. But he seems to have taken on the mantle of leadership a lot better than Cutler. Cutler's high picks are in part due to the high number of tosses and lack of an effective run attack. But there is more to it than just that. Cutler played a lot of shotgun in his career. His dropback technique is still lacking. His 1 and 3 yard technique is clumsy and still not crisp. His slow delivery tips the defenses and he makes critical interceptions when his team can ill afford it.

P, your guy should be somewhat happy. His two teams will still have Orton and Cutler at the controls.

[Packnut]

When examining any qb, you have to look at the whole picture. He had a better year in 07 (all around preformance) than 08 IMO. The reason for that is simple. Last season he had about 150 more attempts. Denver's D sucked so he had to throw the ball much more. It's just simple math that more attempts = more picks.

Let's also remember, Cutler only has 2 full seasons. He's a very young QB who is still learning. He's not an elite QB. Neither is Rodgers. Manning and Brady are elite QB's.

Just like Rodgers, Cutler has the potential to be an elite QB. I do believe Rodgers has the edge simply do to the talent he has at WR. I expect him to have a better year than Cutler.

PN, You and I have gone at it at times, but this is an occasion when we both agree. I like our guy better mesself. ARod has shown me he has leadership skills. Rodgers sulks a bit at the wrong times, most young ones do. But he seems to have taken on the mantle of leadership a lot better than Cutler. Cutler's high picks are in part due to the high number of tosses and lack of an effective run attack. But there is more to it than just that. Cutler played a lot of shotgun in his career. His dropback technique is still lacking. His 1 and 3 yard technique is clumsy and still not crisp. His slow delivery tips the defenses and he makes critical interceptions when his team can ill afford it.

P, your guy should be somewhat happy. His two teams will still have Orton and Cutler at the controls.

Rodgers is obviously more mature than Cutler at this point. The whole Favre saga made Rodgers grow up pretty quick.

I would argue strongly howver that this is a bigger season for Rodgers than Cutler. I think Cutler will be given a little time to get acclimated to his new team. Also, if he struggles, the Chicago media will blame it all on lack of WR's for him to throw to.

A-Rod has no such luxury this season. Expectations are high. He has no excuse to fail. I expect him to take a dramtic leap in his play. There is no reason why he can't have a pro-bowl type season.

[Scott Campbell]

I think Cutler will be given a little time to get acclimated to his new team. Also, if he struggles, the Chicago media will blame it all on lack of WR's for him to throw to.



You may be right, but I don't think they gave up all those picks just to get a developmental prospect. I'd like to see Cutler have the weight of the world on his shoulders beginning in week 1. Then I'd like to see Bear fans with BRING BACK GROSSMAN signs by week 6.

[sharpe1027]

Also, if he struggles, the Chicago media will blame it all on lack of WR's for him to throw to.


Think of all the WR's that the Bears could have drafted with those picks they traded away... :lol:

I agree that Culter may be given an early pass. I think everyone will come down harder on him in the end if things don't turn around though.

[Lurker64]

The interesting thing is how long will it take Jay Cutler to have a winning season, since he hasn't had one since high school.

In 2004 for Vandy he was 2-9
In 2005 for Vandy he was 5-6
In 2006 for Denver he went 2-3
In 2007 for Denver he went 7-9
In 2008 for Denver he went 8-8.

Will this be the year he finally breaks through?

[sharpe1027]

Also, if he struggles, the Chicago media will blame it all on lack of WR's for him to throw to.


Think of all the WR's that the Bears could have drafted with those picks they traded away... :lol:

I agree that Culter may be given an early pass. I think everyone will come down harder on him in the end if things don't turn around though.

[rbaloha1]

Physically Cutler is an elite NFL qb. Strong arm with the ability to make all the throws. Cutler reminds of a young Favre.

However the leadership issue is still prevents Cutler from being a top 5 qb. IMO Cutler is on the cusp.

Cutler instantly makes the Bears receivers better in the same manner BF made Bill Schroeder a good receiver in the Packer offense.

[Gunakor]

Cutler instantly makes the Bears receivers better in the same manner BF made Bill Schroeder a good receiver in the Packer offense.

I'm not sure they have any WR's quite as talented as Schroeder was. Still, 10 points for the Bill Schroeder reference. Didn't think I'd ever hear that name again outside of a FS-WI Brewers telecast. Well done sir.

[Pacopete4]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

[Packnut]

From what I've seen, the media is already laying the ground-work for the "no WR's excuse". They are pushing hard for PB despite his legal problems.

No IF PB gets out of the gun charges (we all know money can buy the best defense available), the Bears will pursue him.

Now IF they do get him, that changes everything. Cutler to PB would be a deadly combo. It would change the balance of power in the NFC North.

[Scott Campbell]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.

[Fritz]

Cutler instantly makes the Bears receivers better in the same manner BF made Bill Schroeder a good receiver in the Packer offense.

I'm not sure they have any WR's quite as talented as Schroeder was. Still, 10 points for the Bill Schroeder reference. Didn't think I'd ever hear that name again outside of a FS-WI Brewers telecast. Well done sir.

First, can somebody please remind me when Bill Schroeder was a good receiver again? I keep forgetting.

Secondly, what's strange to me is that I distinctly remember various media draftnik blowhards - and perhaps even some scouts quoted for stories in the papers - saying that one of the things they loved about Cutler was that he did so well considering his poor surrounding cast at Vandy, and that he was a gamer like Favre, and that he never complained about his teammates despite the lack of talent around him. In short, they liked his toughness and leadership. He was often compared to Favre as a QB who led by example and was tough as nails.

This is not the picture being painted today. What happened?

[Gunakor]

Cutler instantly makes the Bears receivers better in the same manner BF made Bill Schroeder a good receiver in the Packer offense.

I'm not sure they have any WR's quite as talented as Schroeder was. Still, 10 points for the Bill Schroeder reference. Didn't think I'd ever hear that name again outside of a FS-WI Brewers telecast. Well done sir.

First, can somebody please remind me when Bill Schroeder was a good receiver again? I keep forgetting.

That's my point entirely :D

[Scott Campbell]

He was often compared to Favre as a QB who led by example and was tough as nails.

This is not the picture being painted today. What happened?

http://www.nflgridirongab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bus-cook.jpg

[Pacopete4]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..

[Scott Campbell]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..


You're a Packer fan. Quit sniveling and act like one.

[Patler]

P, your guy should be somewhat happy. His two teams will still have Orton and Cutler at the controls.

He made it quite clear that the Bears were his real team of choice, and that he was a Broncos fan out of convenience! :lol: :lol:

He really had nothing good to say about Cutler, but acknowledged that Cutler was young and could mature. Maybe a new opportunity with the Bears, a team that has other leadership, will help him achieve that.

He mentioned a situation that sealed his contempt for Cutler. I didn't remember it, but he said it was on ESPN and the like. I don't know when or what team was involved. Cutler threw an interception, and began stomping around and walking toward the sideline while unsnapping his helmet. He was looking at the ground, shaking his head, walking to the sidelines. The guy who intercepted the pass ran between Cutler and the sideline for a TD, and Cutler didn't even see him even though he was close to him.

Anyone else remember that?

[Pacopete4]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..


You're a Packer fan. Quit sniveling and act like one.


Packers fan.. yes


But I also think this was a great move by the Bears.. it could be one of those things that piss us off for years...

[Scott Campbell]

Anyone else remember that?


Sounds like Dungy did.

[Gunakor]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

I hope Dom can get his head out of his ass if it happens too.

[Pacopete4]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

I hope Dom can get his head out of his ass if it happens too.



me too.. but it'll be different for most of the players we have this season, so hopefully the transition is smooth

[Scott Campbell]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..


You're a Packer fan. Quit sniveling and act like one.


Packers fan.. yes


But I also think this was a great move by the Bears.. it could be one of those things that piss us off for years...



They way overpaid. If Pat Bowlen had a conscience, he'd split some of those picks with the Redskins. Snyder and Co. really drove up the bidding.

[Gunakor]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

I hope Dom can get his head out of his ass if it happens too.



me too.. but it'll be different for most of the players we have this season, so hopefully the transition is smooth

It'll be different for Cutler too.

[Pacopete4]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..


You're a Packer fan. Quit sniveling and act like one.


Packers fan.. yes


But I also think this was a great move by the Bears.. it could be one of those things that piss us off for years...



They way overpaid. If Pat Bowlen had a conscience, he'd split some of those picks with the Redskins. Snyder and Co. really drove up the bidding.


you wouldnt feel that way if you were a Bears fan... they've never had a quality to really speak of.. I have a feeling most are happy in Chi Town

[Patler]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.

[Pacopete4]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.


ya but you're one of the few level headed ones on these boards...

[Packnut]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..


You're a Packer fan. Quit sniveling and act like one.


Packers fan.. yes


But I also think this was a great move by the Bears.. it could be one of those things that piss us off for years...



They way overpaid. If Pat Bowlen had a conscience, he'd split some of those picks with the Redskins. Snyder and Co. really drove up the bidding.


you wouldnt feel that way if you were a Bears fan... they've never had a quality to really speak of.. I have a feeling most are happy in Chi Town

Happy would be an understatement. Bear fans are on cloud nine right now. Cutler is being portrayed as the second coming! :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.


Well I sure do when it comes to the Bears. I'll do it. But I won't like it one bit.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is not the picture being painted today. What happened?

I have no knowledge on whether Cutler is a leader not, but usually money and fame end up being the culprit. Maybe the guy is getting too big for his britches--as my Grandpa used to say.

[sharpe1027]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Relax there Paco, discussing facts surrounding past play isn't shit talking. I think most people agree that Culter *might* end up being a very good QB. That doesn't mean that there are plenty of reasons to think he might not.

Even if the Packers lose to the bears, Culter's win-loss record from 2004-2008 will remain the same, and he will still have had some questionalble actions while in Denver. No need remove ones foot for mentioning facts and forming an opinion based upon those facts.

[Patler]

I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.


Well I sure do when it comes to the Bears. I'll do it. But I won't like it one bit.

It's easier after they have retired! :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

From what I've seen, the media is already laying the ground-work for the "no WR's excuse". They are pushing hard for PB despite his legal problems.



Plax would fill a deep void for the Bears. They really haven't had anyone that could teach gun safety since they got rid of Tank Johnson.

[Cleft Crusty]

Cutler is no more an elite QB than I am an elite columnist.

[pbmax]

Rk Name/Team ............Pct Yds/Att. RTG IntRate TDRate
1 Gus Frerotte, Min...... 59.10 7.17 73.70 4.98% 3.99%
2 Brett Favre, NYJ....... 65.70 6.65 81.00 4.21% 4.21%
3 Ben Roethlisberger, Pit 59.90 7.04 80.10 3.20% 3.62%
4 Dan Orlovsky, Det...... 56.10 6.34 72.60 3.14% 3.14%
5 Tony Romo, Dal......... 61.30 7.66 91.40 3.11% 5.78%
6 Marc Bulger, StL....... 57.00 6.18 71.40 2.95% 2.50%
7 Jay Cutler, Den........ 62.30 7.35 86.00 2.92% 4.06%
8 Jake Delhomme, Car..... 59.40 7.94 84.70 2.90% 3.62%
9 Tyler Thigpen, KC...... 54.80 6.21 76.00 2.86% 4.29%
10 Derek Anderson, Cle... 50.20 5.71 66.50 2.83% 3.18%
11 Joe Flacco, Bal....... 60.00 6.94 80.30 2.80% 3.27%
12 Shaun Hill, SF........ 62.80 7.10 87.50 2.78% 4.51%
13 Drew Brees, NO........ 65.00 7.98 96.20 2.68% 5.35%
14 Trent Edwards, Buf.... 65.50 7.22 85.40 2.67% 2.94%
15 Matt Schaub, Hou...... 66.10 8.01 92.70 2.63% 3.95%
16 Kyle Orton, Chi....... 58.50 6.39 79.60 2.58% 3.87%
17 Matt Ryan, Atl........ 61.10 7.93 87.70 2.53% 3.69%
18 David Garrard, Jac.... 62.60 6.77 81.70 2.43% 2.80%
19 Aaron Rodgers, GB..... 63.60 7.53 93.80 2.43% 5.22%
20 Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin. 59.40 5.12 70.00 2.42% 2.15%
21 Kurt Warner, Ari...... 67.10 7.66 96.90 2.34% 5.02%
22 Philip Rivers, SD..... 65.30 8.39 105.50 2.30% 7.11%
23 JaMarcus Russell, Oak. 53.80 6.58 77.10 2.17% 3.53%
24 Peyton Manning, Ind... 66.80 7.21 95.00 2.16% 4.86%
25 Matt Cassel, NE....... 63.40 7.16 89.40 2.13% 4.07%
26 Eli Manning, NYG...... 60.30 6.76 86.40 2.09% 4.38%
27 Donovan McNabb, Phi... 60.40 6.86 86.40 1.93% 4.03%
28 Kerry Collins, Ten.... 58.30 6.45 80.20 1.69% 2.89%
29 Jeff Garcia, TB....... 64.90 7.21 90.20 1.60% 3.19%
30 Chad Pennington, Mia.. 67.40 7.67 97.40 1.47% 3.99%
31 Seneca Wallace, Sea... 58.30 6.33 87.00 1.24% 4.55%
32 Jason Campbell, Was... 62.30 6.41 84.30 1.19% 2.57%

[Freak Out]

Cutler is not an elite QB until he wins consistently for a few years and leads his team to the playoffs more than once.

[cpk1994]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happensBased on the last time the Packers went against Cutler, I wouldn't be worried about Cutler at all.

[cpk1994]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..


You're a Packer fan. Quit sniveling and act like one.


Packers fan.. yes


But I also think this was a great move by the Bears.. it could be one of those things that piss us off for years...



They way overpaid. If Pat Bowlen had a conscience, he'd split some of those picks with the Redskins. Snyder and Co. really drove up the bidding.


you wouldnt feel that way if you were a Bears fan... they've never had a quality to really speak of.. I have a feeling most are happy in Chi Town

Happy would be an understatement. Bear fans are on cloud nine right now. Cutler is being portrayed as the second coming! :lol:After having to deal with Grossman for years, just about any QB would be portrayed as the second coming.

[cpk1994]

Paco - edit your post before one of those clowns sees it. Embarrassing.


Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..


You're a Packer fan. Quit sniveling and act like one.Let's be fair SC. You can't act like something you are not. :lol:

[falco]

Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..

Like many did about Rodgers?

[Lurker64]

Cutler is not an elite QB until he wins consistently for a few years and leads his team to the playoffs more than once.

I think this is the correct take. A QB is not elite based on "what he can do", he's elite based on "what he has done and what he continues to be able to do."

To qualify for elite status a QB really needs to be able to:

1) Have his team in the playoff hunt nearly every year on the strength of his arm.

2) Go deep into playoffs on multiple occasions.

3) Post excellent individual statistics.

Cutler has #3 but has neither #1 nor #2, in fact he's not had a winning season in the NFL or college. This is also why the mantra of "if you don't have an elite QB you should be looking to replace the guy you have with someone elite" is asinine; since no QB starts out with elite status. It's something they get by continually playing well, and virtually anybody could achieve it (#1 overall picks, #199 overall picks, etc.)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..

Like many did about Rodgers?

A quick search found somebody said this about Rodgers before last year.
:D


What has Rodgers ever done to you that makes you want him to fail? Its like you'd rather be right then have the Packers win. I dont get it.


Not at all.. I just don't think he is going to do well... To be totally honest, I'm just flat out sick of hearing about how amazing he is because he happened to play well in one game.. how in the world u base him on that is beyond me.

[pbmax]

Cutler did heave a good number of balls to the opposition. But that's only half the story. What was the differential between TD rates and Int rates? I am glad you asked:


Rk Name/Team ..............IntRate TDRate RateDiffer
01 Philip Rivers, SD.........2.30% 7.11% 4.81%
02 Seneca Wallace, Sea. .....1.24% 4.55% 3.31%
03 Aaron Rodgers, GB ........2.43% 5.22% 2.80%
04 Peyton Manning, Ind ......2.16% 4.86% 2.70%
05 Drew Brees, NO ...........2.68% 5.35% 2.68%
06 Kurt Warner, Ari .........2.34% 5.02% 2.68%
07 Tony Romo, Dal ...........3.11% 5.78% 2.67%
08 Chad Pennington, Mia .....1.47% 3.99% 2.52%
09 Eli Manning, NYG .........2.09% 4.38% 2.30%
10 Donovan McNabb, Phi ......1.93% 4.03% 2.10%
11 Matt Cassel, NE ..........2.13% 4.07% 1.94%
12 Shaun Hill, SF ...........2.78% 4.51% 1.74%
13 Jeff Garcia, TB ..........1.60% 3.19% 1.60%
14 Tyler Thigpen, KC ........2.86% 4.29% 1.43%
15 Jason Campbell, Was ......1.19% 2.57% 1.38%
16 JaMarcus Russell, Oak ....2.17% 3.53% 1.36%
17 Matt Schaub, Hou .........2.63% 3.95% 1.32%
18 Kyle Orton, Chi ..........2.58% 3.87% 1.29%
19 Kerry Collins, Ten .......1.69% 2.89% 1.20%
20 Matt Ryan, Atl ...........2.53% 3.69% 1.15%
21 Jay Cutler, Den ..........2.92% 4.06% 1.14%
22 Jake Delhomme, Car .......2.90% 3.62% 0.72%
23 Joe Flacco, Bal ..........2.80% 3.27% 0.47%
24 Ben Roethlisberger, Pit ..3.20% 3.62% 0.43%
25 David Garrard, Jac .......2.43% 2.80% 0.37%
26 Derek Anderson, Cle ......2.83% 3.18% 0.35%
27 Trent Edwards, Buf .......2.67% 2.94% 0.27%
28 Dan Orlovsky, Det ........3.14% 3.14% 0.00%
29 Brett Favre, NYJ .........4.21% 4.21% 0.00%
30 Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin ....2.42% 2.15% -0.27%
31 Marc Bulger, StL .........2.95% 2.50% -0.45%
32 Gus Frerotte, Min ........4.98% 3.99% -1.00%

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..

Like many did about Rodgers?

A quick search found somebody said this about Rodgers before last year.
:D


What has Rodgers ever done to you that makes you want him to fail? Its like you'd rather be right then have the Packers win. I dont get it.


Not at all.. I just don't think he is going to do well... To be totally honest, I'm just flat out sick of hearing about how amazing he is because he happened to play well in one game.. how in the world u base him on that is beyond me.

brutal

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Cutler instantly makes the Bears receivers better in the same manner BF made Bill Schroeder a good receiver in the Packer offense.

I'm not sure they have any WR's quite as talented as Schroeder was. Still, 10 points for the Bill Schroeder reference. Didn't think I'd ever hear that name again outside of a FS-WI Brewers telecast. Well done sir.

First, can somebody please remind me when Bill Schroeder was a good receiver again? I keep forgetting.



Don't get Tyrone started on white WRs, the media, and fans...haven't seen dicksucking like that since jenna jameson was in her youth.

[KYPack]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Thank you,

Oh Wise One.

[Scott Campbell]

Why? Cuz I'm not shooting off my mouth about Cutler not succeeding before he ever plays a down for the Bears? Talk about a bunch of idiots..

Like many did about Rodgers?

A quick search found somebody said this about Rodgers before last year.
:D


What has Rodgers ever done to you that makes you want him to fail? Its like you'd rather be right then have the Packers win. I dont get it.


Not at all.. I just don't think he is going to do well... To be totally honest, I'm just flat out sick of hearing about how amazing he is because he happened to play well in one game.. how in the world u base him on that is beyond me.



I bow to the master.

[The Leaper]

Cutler isn't elite because Denver got rid of him.

No NFL team would get rid of a young elite QB...not even Oakland. I think.

[SnakeLH2006]

The interesting thing is how long will it take Jay Cutler to have a winning season, since he hasn't had one since high school.

In 2004 for Vandy he was 2-9
In 2005 for Vandy he was 5-6
In 2006 for Denver he went 2-3
In 2007 for Denver he went 7-9
In 2008 for Denver he went 8-8.

Will this be the year he finally breaks through?

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!! That is awesome. Just shows that he is overrated.

Definition: overrated

Anything that's given TOO much hype. The type of thing that, if you see it again, you're liable to check your self into a mental institution

High School Musical
Hannah Montana
Jay Cutler

Three examples of overrated crap.

Honestly, if I hear anything about the three I just mentioned one more time, I'm gonna kick a baby.

So is this guy gonna win anything, or just keep claiming 3 things that we all know are bunk?:

1) My arm is stronger than Brett/Elway ever!
2) I'm better than Elway in Denver!
3) Partial is my biggest fan and an Internet icon.

Great post, Lurker.

[Partial]

I disagree whole heartedly with a lot of your opinions. You all love Rodgers, but think Cutler is overrated? Cutler is a better athlete with a stronger arm. He, like many other players, wanted a contract extension and through a fit to get it. It's not THAT uncommon in todays world. That doesn't bother me much.

I think Cutler is the best QB in the division. He's shown more than Rodgers and been in the league less time.

When I make a comment about Rodgers record, it's all "oh, the defense this or oh the defense that". Yet when Cutler's teams have sucked balls it's "Cutler sucks his DEFENSE IS ALL MILKY WAY and he still sucks". I cannot stand homer attitudes.

[SnakeLH2006]

I disagree whole heartedly with a lot of your opinions. You all love Rodgers, but think Cutler is overrated? Cutler is a better athlete with a stronger arm. He, like many other players, wanted a contract extension and through a fit to get it. It's not THAT uncommon in todays world. That doesn't bother me much.

I think Cutler is the best QB in the division. He's shown more than Rodgers and been in the league less time.

When I make a comment about Rodgers record, it's all "oh, the defense this or oh the defense that". Yet when Cutler's teams have sucked balls it's "Cutler sucks his DEFENSE IS ALL MILKY WAY and he still sucks". I cannot stand homer attitudes.

If you are truly a Packer fan, you will burn your Jay Cutler posters in your room. At least do that.

[Dabaddestbear]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.
But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?
For one, a present day Packer fan should never use the win loss record as a measurement for a QB. Rodgers only won 6 games for his career! So he must suck also right?

And I read all these Packer fan postings and I guarantee more than half of you will not reply to a post in regards to Cutler being so bad if he rips the Packers a new one in week one. You can put me down on record and save this post (for I will be saving all of these by you guys), that Cutler will vastly improve the Bears, and they will be better than last year. Which may not bode well for the Packers, since the no Bears and their no talented WR's were able to beat the Packers with a much lesser QB. By the way, that QB (Orton) is battling just to be the starter for Denver.

This season gonna be so much more enjoyable just because of these post you guys are making. Have fun.;-)

[sharpe1027]

But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?
For one, a present day Packer fan should never use the win loss record as a measurement for a QB. Rodgers only won 6 games for his career! So he must suck also right?

And I read all these Packer fan postings and I guarantee more than half of you will not reply to a post in regards to Cutler being so bad if he rips the Packers a new one in week one. You can put me down on record and save this post (for I will be saving all of these by you guys), that Cutler will vastly improve the Bears, and they will be better than last year. Which may not bode well for the Packers, since the no Bears and their no talented WR's were able to beat the Packers with a much lesser QB. By the way, that QB (Orton) is battling just to be the starter for Denver.

This season gonna be so much more enjoyable just because of these post you guys are making. Have fun.;-)

Both. Take the facts, apply them to the situation and form an opinion. Some call it a rationale discussion. Have a go at it, it is fun.

[Patler]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.
But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?
For one, a present day Packer fan should never use the win loss record as a measurement for a QB. Rodgers only won 6 games for his career! So he must suck also right?

And I read all these Packer fan postings and I guarantee more than half of you will not reply to a post in regards to Cutler being so bad if he rips the Packers a new one in week one. You can put me down on record and save this post (for I will be saving all of these by you guys), that Cutler will vastly improve the Bears, and they will be better than last year. Which may not bode well for the Packers, since the no Bears and their no talented WR's were able to beat the Packers with a much lesser QB. By the way, that QB (Orton) is battling just to be the starter for Denver.

This season gonna be so much more enjoyable just because of these post you guys are making. Have fun.;-)

I'm not sure why you picked my post to challenge, but since you did, I'll play!.

I posted comments from a Denver resident who has watched Cutler's entire NFL career to date, happens to be a life-long Bear fan, and isn't excited at all about Cutler in Chicago. I guess that is a factual report of mixed facts an opinions. My report was factual, his comments were both fact and his opinion based on facts and his first-hand observations.

I acknowledged that Chicago might mature him. I guess that's opinion, but is it really one that you want to dispute, or complain about?

I acknowledged the Bears success against GB under Smith (fact), and said I will have no problem recognizing Cutler as a star if he becomes one (promise,I guess; not fact, not opinion). Will you do the same for Rodgers?

Opinions mostly by all of us? OF COURSE! What else did you expect to get here? Are your posts anything other than opinions? Especially those about Cutler? We form opinions based on facts, rumors, reports, suppositions and even our own desires thrown into the mix. That's what its all about.

The difference on Packerrats is that, for the most part, the participants are realistic. Do you find anyone on here suggesting that Adrian Peterson (Viking version) sucks? Heck, most acknowledge that he might be the best back in the league right now.

Should I accept your OPINION about Cutler more than that of a Bear fan in Denver who has followed Cutler's career in great detail? How much have you seen him play? How much have you followed his off fielld activities? How much do you know about him? Perhaps you will be right, but for the time being I believe the Denver resident Bear fan has the better information on the topic.

If Cutler becomes a star, I think you will find that most on here will admit it, even if a bit grudgingly. Again I ask, will you do the same for Rodgers?

[Scott Campbell]

But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?


What'd ya think of Dungy's opinion. :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

Rk Name/Team ............Pct Yds/Att. RTG IntRate TDRate
1 Gus Frerotte, Min...... 59.10 7.17 73.70 4.98% 3.99%
2 Brett Favre, NYJ....... 65.70 6.65 81.00 4.21% 4.21%
3 Ben Roethlisberger, Pit 59.90 7.04 80.10 3.20% 3.62%
4 Dan Orlovsky, Det...... 56.10 6.34 72.60 3.14% 3.14%
5 Tony Romo, Dal......... 61.30 7.66 91.40 3.11% 5.78%
6 Marc Bulger, StL....... 57.00 6.18 71.40 2.95% 2.50%
7 Jay Cutler, Den........ 62.30 7.35 86.00 2.92% 4.06%
8 Jake Delhomme, Car..... 59.40 7.94 84.70 2.90% 3.62%
9 Tyler Thigpen, KC...... 54.80 6.21 76.00 2.86% 4.29%
10 Derek Anderson, Cle... 50.20 5.71 66.50 2.83% 3.18%
11 Joe Flacco, Bal....... 60.00 6.94 80.30 2.80% 3.27%
12 Shaun Hill, SF........ 62.80 7.10 87.50 2.78% 4.51%
13 Drew Brees, NO........ 65.00 7.98 96.20 2.68% 5.35%
14 Trent Edwards, Buf.... 65.50 7.22 85.40 2.67% 2.94%
15 Matt Schaub, Hou...... 66.10 8.01 92.70 2.63% 3.95%
16 Kyle Orton, Chi....... 58.50 6.39 79.60 2.58% 3.87%
17 Matt Ryan, Atl........ 61.10 7.93 87.70 2.53% 3.69%
18 David Garrard, Jac.... 62.60 6.77 81.70 2.43% 2.80%
19 Aaron Rodgers, GB..... 63.60 7.53 93.80 2.43% 5.22%
20 Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin. 59.40 5.12 70.00 2.42% 2.15%
21 Kurt Warner, Ari...... 67.10 7.66 96.90 2.34% 5.02%
22 Philip Rivers, SD..... 65.30 8.39 105.50 2.30% 7.11%
23 JaMarcus Russell, Oak. 53.80 6.58 77.10 2.17% 3.53%
24 Peyton Manning, Ind... 66.80 7.21 95.00 2.16% 4.86%
25 Matt Cassel, NE....... 63.40 7.16 89.40 2.13% 4.07%
26 Eli Manning, NYG...... 60.30 6.76 86.40 2.09% 4.38%
27 Donovan McNabb, Phi... 60.40 6.86 86.40 1.93% 4.03%
28 Kerry Collins, Ten.... 58.30 6.45 80.20 1.69% 2.89%
29 Jeff Garcia, TB....... 64.90 7.21 90.20 1.60% 3.19%
30 Chad Pennington, Mia.. 67.40 7.67 97.40 1.47% 3.99%
31 Seneca Wallace, Sea... 58.30 6.33 87.00 1.24% 4.55%
32 Jason Campbell, Was... 62.30 6.41 84.30 1.19% 2.57%


Ok, I must be missing something here. What's the basis for the ranking on this chart?

[pbmax]

Rk Name/Team ............Pct Yds/Att. RTG IntRate TDRate
1 Gus Frerotte, Min...... 59.10 7.17 73.70 4.98% 3.99%
2 Brett Favre, NYJ....... 65.70 6.65 81.00 4.21% 4.21%
3 Ben Roethlisberger, Pit 59.90 7.04 80.10 3.20% 3.62%
4 Dan Orlovsky, Det...... 56.10 6.34 72.60 3.14% 3.14%
5 Tony Romo, Dal......... 61.30 7.66 91.40 3.11% 5.78%
6 Marc Bulger, StL....... 57.00 6.18 71.40 2.95% 2.50%
7 Jay Cutler, Den........ 62.30 7.35 86.00 2.92% 4.06%
8 Jake Delhomme, Car..... 59.40 7.94 84.70 2.90% 3.62%
9 Tyler Thigpen, KC...... 54.80 6.21 76.00 2.86% 4.29%
10 Derek Anderson, Cle... 50.20 5.71 66.50 2.83% 3.18%
11 Joe Flacco, Bal....... 60.00 6.94 80.30 2.80% 3.27%
12 Shaun Hill, SF........ 62.80 7.10 87.50 2.78% 4.51%
13 Drew Brees, NO........ 65.00 7.98 96.20 2.68% 5.35%
14 Trent Edwards, Buf.... 65.50 7.22 85.40 2.67% 2.94%
15 Matt Schaub, Hou...... 66.10 8.01 92.70 2.63% 3.95%
16 Kyle Orton, Chi....... 58.50 6.39 79.60 2.58% 3.87%
17 Matt Ryan, Atl........ 61.10 7.93 87.70 2.53% 3.69%
18 David Garrard, Jac.... 62.60 6.77 81.70 2.43% 2.80%
19 Aaron Rodgers, GB..... 63.60 7.53 93.80 2.43% 5.22%
20 Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin. 59.40 5.12 70.00 2.42% 2.15%
21 Kurt Warner, Ari...... 67.10 7.66 96.90 2.34% 5.02%
22 Philip Rivers, SD..... 65.30 8.39 105.50 2.30% 7.11%
23 JaMarcus Russell, Oak. 53.80 6.58 77.10 2.17% 3.53%
24 Peyton Manning, Ind... 66.80 7.21 95.00 2.16% 4.86%
25 Matt Cassel, NE....... 63.40 7.16 89.40 2.13% 4.07%
26 Eli Manning, NYG...... 60.30 6.76 86.40 2.09% 4.38%
27 Donovan McNabb, Phi... 60.40 6.86 86.40 1.93% 4.03%
28 Kerry Collins, Ten.... 58.30 6.45 80.20 1.69% 2.89%
29 Jeff Garcia, TB....... 64.90 7.21 90.20 1.60% 3.19%
30 Chad Pennington, Mia.. 67.40 7.67 97.40 1.47% 3.99%
31 Seneca Wallace, Sea... 58.30 6.33 87.00 1.24% 4.55%
32 Jason Campbell, Was... 62.30 6.41 84.30 1.19% 2.57%


Ok, I must be missing something here. What's the basis for the ranking on this chart?

Interception Rank. This was a reply to someone's post that of course Cutler threw a higher number of interceptions because he had to throw with an oddly mediocre Denver running game and a bad defense.

These facts are true, but even accounting for the higher number of passes, Cutler heaved an interceptions at a good clip, seventh "best" in the league.

The odd one here is Roethlisberger, who played superbly in the Super Bowl (at least the last quarter) but whose numbers often look medicore during the season.

The best argument for Rodgers is the difference between the rate at which he chucks Tds versus INTs. Being third in the league is very good. Although the presence of Seneca Wallace is troubling. :shock:

[Scott Campbell]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

[Patler]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

For some reason, his 2008 performance is widely ignored, downplayed, whatever. I think he should have gotten more recognition for it.

[Scott Campbell]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

For some reason, his 2008 performance is widely ignored, downplayed, whatever. I think he should have gotten more recognition for it.



I'm not sure, but San Diego got off to that slow start. Denver and the Jets got off to fast starts.

[pbmax]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

For some reason, his 2008 performance is widely ignored, downplayed, whatever. I think he should have gotten more recognition for it.



I'm not sure, but San Diego got off to that slow start. Denver and the Jets got off to fast starts.
Drew Brees was getting a lot of love as well. He had the media friendly factors of playing in New Orleans (can talk about rebuilding), a popular Parcell's disciple for a coach (Payton) and some monster games. And, except against the Packers, no defense to hold a lead.

And i think conventional wisdom held that on his own, it was unfair and perhaps impossible for Rodgers to replace Favre in totality. So that overall assessment became the prism through which Rodgers was viewed even during games. So his accomplishments were treated to yes, but comments.... Add the fact that he was a rookie starter and the team record, everything was downgraded.

[pbmax]

I do like the yards per attempt metric for QBs too. Rodgers fares well here and the Seneca Wallace phenomenon might be explained. I think if you are a QB that throws high numbers of TDs and INTs, you need a relatively high Yard per Attempt to make up for the field position and possession you are surrendering on an INT. Cutler does better here that in the other two rankings.


Rk Name/Team ................Yds/Att
01 Philip Rivers, SD .........8.39
02 Matt Schaub, Hou ..........8.01
03 Drew Brees, NO ............7.98
04 Jake Delhomme, Car ........7.94
05 Matt Ryan, Atl ............7.93
06 Chad Pennington, Mia ......7.67
07 Kurt Warner, Ari ..........7.66
08 Tony Romo, Dal ............7.66
09 Aaron Rodgers, GB .........7.53
10 Jay Cutler, Den ...........7.35
11 Trent Edwards, Buf ........7.22
12 Jeff Garcia, TB ...........7.21
13 Peyton Manning, Ind .......7.21
14 Gus Frerotte, Min .........7.17
15 Matt Cassel, NE ...........7.16
16 Shaun Hill, SF ............7.10
17 Ben Roethlisberger, Pit ...7.04
18 Joe Flacco, Bal ...........6.94
19 Donovan McNabb, Phi .......6.86
20 David Garrard, Jac ........6.77
21 Eli Manning, NYG ..........6.76
22 Brett Favre, NYJ ..........6.65
23 JaMarcus Russell, Oak .....6.58
24 Kerry Collins, Ten ........6.45
25 Jason Campbell, Was .......6.41
26 Kyle Orton, Chi ...........6.39
27 Dan Orlovsky, Det .........6.34
28 Seneca Wallace, Sea .......6.33
29 Tyler Thigpen, KC .........6.21
30 Marc Bulger, StL ..........6.18
31 Derek Anderson, Cle .......5.71
32 Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin .....5.12

[Fritz]

Cutler did heave a good number of balls to the opposition. But that's only half the story. What was the differential between TD rates and Int rates? I am glad you asked:


Rk Name/Team ..............IntRate TDRate RateDiffer
01 Philip Rivers, SD.........2.30% 7.11% 4.81%
02 Seneca Wallace, Sea. .....1.24% 4.55% 3.31%
03 Aaron Rodgers, GB ........2.43% 5.22% 2.80%
04 Peyton Manning, Ind ......2.16% 4.86% 2.70%
05 Drew Brees, NO ...........2.68% 5.35% 2.68%
06 Kurt Warner, Ari .........2.34% 5.02% 2.68%
07 Tony Romo, Dal ...........3.11% 5.78% 2.67%
08 Chad Pennington, Mia .....1.47% 3.99% 2.52%
09 Eli Manning, NYG .........2.09% 4.38% 2.30%
10 Donovan McNabb, Phi ......1.93% 4.03% 2.10%
11 Matt Cassel, NE ..........2.13% 4.07% 1.94%
12 Shaun Hill, SF ...........2.78% 4.51% 1.74%
13 Jeff Garcia, TB ..........1.60% 3.19% 1.60%
14 Tyler Thigpen, KC ........2.86% 4.29% 1.43%
15 Jason Campbell, Was ......1.19% 2.57% 1.38%
16 JaMarcus Russell, Oak ....2.17% 3.53% 1.36%
17 Matt Schaub, Hou .........2.63% 3.95% 1.32%
18 Kyle Orton, Chi ..........2.58% 3.87% 1.29%
19 Kerry Collins, Ten .......1.69% 2.89% 1.20%
20 Matt Ryan, Atl ...........2.53% 3.69% 1.15%
21 Jay Cutler, Den ..........2.92% 4.06% 1.14%
22 Jake Delhomme, Car .......2.90% 3.62% 0.72%
23 Joe Flacco, Bal ..........2.80% 3.27% 0.47%
24 Ben Roethlisberger, Pit ..3.20% 3.62% 0.43%
25 David Garrard, Jac .......2.43% 2.80% 0.37%
26 Derek Anderson, Cle ......2.83% 3.18% 0.35%
27 Trent Edwards, Buf .......2.67% 2.94% 0.27%
28 Dan Orlovsky, Det ........3.14% 3.14% 0.00%
29 Brett Favre, NYJ .........4.21% 4.21% 0.00%
30 Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin ....2.42% 2.15% -0.27%
31 Marc Bulger, StL .........2.95% 2.50% -0.45%
32 Gus Frerotte, Min ........4.98% 3.99% -1.00%


Who knew Seneca Wallace was a top-flight QB? Day-um

[cpk1994]

Cutler did heave a good number of balls to the opposition. But that's only half the story. What was the differential between TD rates and Int rates? I am glad you asked:


Rk Name/Team ..............IntRate TDRate RateDiffer
01 Philip Rivers, SD.........2.30% 7.11% 4.81%
02 Seneca Wallace, Sea. .....1.24% 4.55% 3.31%
03 Aaron Rodgers, GB ........2.43% 5.22% 2.80%
04 Peyton Manning, Ind ......2.16% 4.86% 2.70%
05 Drew Brees, NO ...........2.68% 5.35% 2.68%
06 Kurt Warner, Ari .........2.34% 5.02% 2.68%
07 Tony Romo, Dal ...........3.11% 5.78% 2.67%
08 Chad Pennington, Mia .....1.47% 3.99% 2.52%
09 Eli Manning, NYG .........2.09% 4.38% 2.30%
10 Donovan McNabb, Phi ......1.93% 4.03% 2.10%
11 Matt Cassel, NE ..........2.13% 4.07% 1.94%
12 Shaun Hill, SF ...........2.78% 4.51% 1.74%
13 Jeff Garcia, TB ..........1.60% 3.19% 1.60%
14 Tyler Thigpen, KC ........2.86% 4.29% 1.43%
15 Jason Campbell, Was ......1.19% 2.57% 1.38%
16 JaMarcus Russell, Oak ....2.17% 3.53% 1.36%
17 Matt Schaub, Hou .........2.63% 3.95% 1.32%
18 Kyle Orton, Chi ..........2.58% 3.87% 1.29%
19 Kerry Collins, Ten .......1.69% 2.89% 1.20%
20 Matt Ryan, Atl ...........2.53% 3.69% 1.15%
21 Jay Cutler, Den ..........2.92% 4.06% 1.14%
22 Jake Delhomme, Car .......2.90% 3.62% 0.72%
23 Joe Flacco, Bal ..........2.80% 3.27% 0.47%
24 Ben Roethlisberger, Pit ..3.20% 3.62% 0.43%
25 David Garrard, Jac .......2.43% 2.80% 0.37%
26 Derek Anderson, Cle ......2.83% 3.18% 0.35%
27 Trent Edwards, Buf .......2.67% 2.94% 0.27%
28 Dan Orlovsky, Det ........3.14% 3.14% 0.00%
29 Brett Favre, NYJ .........4.21% 4.21% 0.00%
30 Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin ....2.42% 2.15% -0.27%
31 Marc Bulger, StL .........2.95% 2.50% -0.45%
32 Gus Frerotte, Min ........4.98% 3.99% -1.00%


Who knew Seneca Wallace was a top-flight QB? Day-umAnd who knew that Dan Orlovsky was equal to Brett Favre. Maybe ol Dan has a shot after all. :lol:

[Dabaddestbear]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.
But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?
For one, a present day Packer fan should never use the win loss record as a measurement for a QB. Rodgers only won 6 games for his career! So he must suck also right?

And I read all these Packer fan postings and I guarantee more than half of you will not reply to a post in regards to Cutler being so bad if he rips the Packers a new one in week one. You can put me down on record and save this post (for I will be saving all of these by you guys), that Cutler will vastly improve the Bears, and they will be better than last year. Which may not bode well for the Packers, since the no Bears and their no talented WR's were able to beat the Packers with a much lesser QB. By the way, that QB (Orton) is battling just to be the starter for Denver.

This season gonna be so much more enjoyable just because of these post you guys are making. Have fun.;-)

I'm not sure why you picked my post to challenge, but since you did, I'll play!.

I posted comments from a Denver resident who has watched Cutler's entire NFL career to date, happens to be a life-long Bear fan, and isn't excited at all about Cutler in Chicago. I guess that is a factual report of mixed facts an opinions. My report was factual, his comments were both fact and his opinion based on facts and his first-hand observations.

I acknowledged that Chicago might mature him. I guess that's opinion, but is it really one that you want to dispute, or complain about?

I acknowledged the Bears success against GB under Smith (fact), and said I will have no problem recognizing Cutler as a star if he becomes one (promise,I guess; not fact, not opinion). Will you do the same for Rodgers?

Opinions mostly by all of us? OF COURSE! What else did you expect to get here? Are your posts anything other than opinions? Especially those about Cutler? We form opinions based on facts, rumors, reports, suppositions and even our own desires thrown into the mix. That's what its all about.

The difference on Packerrats is that, for the most part, the participants are realistic. Do you find anyone on here suggesting that Adrian Peterson (Viking version) sucks? Heck, most acknowledge that he might be the best back in the league right now.

Should I accept your OPINION about Cutler more than that of a Bear fan in Denver who has followed Cutler's career in great detail? How much have you seen him play? How much have you followed his off fielld activities? How much do you know about him? Perhaps you will be right, but for the time being I believe the Denver resident Bear fan has the better information on the topic.

If Cutler becomes a star, I think you will find that most on here will admit it, even if a bit grudgingly. Again I ask, will you do the same for Rodgers?
Dont take it in the wrong way, I wasnt picking on your post, I was just pointing out how you and others were saying "facts" when its only opinion. I dont expect a certain vibe on any message board. I do expect at least a few that will use logical arguments when making predictions. Not like oh, he never had a winning season in the NFL as a starter, so he is not worth it, when in that case you guys must thought Rex Grossman was god since he not only had winning seasons but went to the SB!

And that story about that guy just seems like a bitter Bronco fan, much more than a Bears fan. If his argument is that he is not a team player, strange how not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point. So when you say you will take the opinion of a Bronco FAN that saw him play the past few years over a Bears fan, I say that I will take the opinion of the PLAYERS AND COACHES that played with and coached him, over a bitter Bronco fan and a rival Packer fan. :roll:

[Dabaddestbear]

But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?


What'd ya think of Dungy's opinion. :lol:
not much...especially since he had arguably the best QB in the game with one of the best WR's the past 10 years and was only able to pull one out against the mighty Rex Grossman. So I cant say he is the source for what to do with a good QB. If he had ever coached Cutler then maybe his word would hold some credence with me. How many times was his team predicted to win it all, only to fall flat on their face against weaker opponents (on paper) in the playoffs? :wink:

[Scott Campbell]

I see plenty of facts posted in here. If you're truly unable to find them, maybe it's because you just don't want to see them.

[Scott Campbell]

If he had ever coached Cutler then maybe his word would hold some credence with me.


Yeah, well you haven't coached Cutler either. So I believe Tony.

[wist43]

I consider Cutler to be a good QB... liked him coming out.

Doubt he is the kind of guy that can carry a team to a championship... but he can be the QB of a run-based offense, and very effectively QB a team to a SB title.

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, et al... those guys are hard to find; hence my desire to go with a power running game. Cutler can be very effective for the Bears - I FEAR :lol: - but, I don't think they'll expect him to carry the team. Running game and defense have to be priorties #1 and 2... Cutler is good enough to get them the rest of the way there, if they stick to those precepts.

[Scott Campbell]

I consider Cutler to be a good QB... liked him coming out.

Doubt he is the kind of guy that can carry a team to a championship... but he can be the QB of a run-based offense, and very effectively QB a team to a SB title.

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, et al... those guys are hard to find; hence my desire to go with a power running game. Cutler can be very effective for the Bears - I FEAR :lol: - but, I don't think they'll expect him to carry the team. Running game and defense have to be priorties #1 and 2... Cutler is good enough to get them the rest of the way there, if they stick to those precepts.



I think I mostly agree with this. It's not that I think Cutler is terrible. Of course I hope he is because of how funny that would be. I just think Chicago grossly overpaid for the guy.

[Dabaddestbear]

I see plenty of facts posted in here. If you're truly unable to find them, maybe it's because you just don't want to see them.
Never said facts wasnt posted, so maybe my post was hard for you to comprehend. I am stating that you cant say something like someone isnt going to be successful just because they dont have a winning record in a team sport, because that would make Rex Grossman a God to those that state that, and Rodgers even worser than Cutler. Now if you want to state that as fact, so be it. But list your facts for why Cutler will not be good with the Bears in your next reply, and we will take it from there. Until then, I am actually about to go out and play some basketball. Holla at you all a lil later.

[sheepshead]

Elite QB ? No...Could he be? yes

[Patler]

oops see next post. :oops: :oops:

[Patler]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.
But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?
For one, a present day Packer fan should never use the win loss record as a measurement for a QB. Rodgers only won 6 games for his career! So he must suck also right?

And I read all these Packer fan postings and I guarantee more than half of you will not reply to a post in regards to Cutler being so bad if he rips the Packers a new one in week one. You can put me down on record and save this post (for I will be saving all of these by you guys), that Cutler will vastly improve the Bears, and they will be better than last year. Which may not bode well for the Packers, since the no Bears and their no talented WR's were able to beat the Packers with a much lesser QB. By the way, that QB (Orton) is battling just to be the starter for Denver.

This season gonna be so much more enjoyable just because of these post you guys are making. Have fun.;-)

I'm not sure why you picked my post to challenge, but since you did, I'll play!.

I posted comments from a Denver resident who has watched Cutler's entire NFL career to date, happens to be a life-long Bear fan, and isn't excited at all about Cutler in Chicago. I guess that is a factual report of mixed facts an opinions. My report was factual, his comments were both fact and his opinion based on facts and his first-hand observations.

I acknowledged that Chicago might mature him. I guess that's opinion, but is it really one that you want to dispute, or complain about?

I acknowledged the Bears success against GB under Smith (fact), and said I will have no problem recognizing Cutler as a star if he becomes one (promise,I guess; not fact, not opinion). Will you do the same for Rodgers?

Opinions mostly by all of us? OF COURSE! What else did you expect to get here? Are your posts anything other than opinions? Especially those about Cutler? We form opinions based on facts, rumors, reports, suppositions and even our own desires thrown into the mix. That's what its all about.

The difference on Packerrats is that, for the most part, the participants are realistic. Do you find anyone on here suggesting that Adrian Peterson (Viking version) sucks? Heck, most acknowledge that he might be the best back in the league right now.

Should I accept your OPINION about Cutler more than that of a Bear fan in Denver who has followed Cutler's career in great detail? How much have you seen him play? How much have you followed his off fielld activities? How much do you know about him? Perhaps you will be right, but for the time being I believe the Denver resident Bear fan has the better information on the topic.

If Cutler becomes a star, I think you will find that most on here will admit it, even if a bit grudgingly. Again I ask, will you do the same for Rodgers?
Dont take it in the wrong way, I wasnt picking on your post, I was just pointing out how you and others were saying "facts" when its only opinion. I dont expect a certain vibe on any message board. I do expect at least a few that will use logical arguments when making predictions. Not like oh, he never had a winning season in the NFL as a starter, so he is not worth it, when in that case you guys must thought Rex Grossman was god since he not only had winning seasons but went to the SB!

And that story about that guy just seems like a bitter Bronco fan, much more than a Bears fan. If his argument is that he is not a team player, strange how not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point. So when you say you will take the opinion of a Bronco FAN that saw him play the past few years over a Bears fan, I say that I will take the opinion of the PLAYERS AND COACHES that played with and coached him, over a bitter Bronco fan and a rival Packer fan. :roll:

What did I allege to be fact that is only opinion? When? Where? You can't accuse me and get away without backing it up! :D

The guy is a Bears fan, not a Bronco fan. He follows the Broncos because he moved there and has access to tickets. He readily admitted that there was no comparison about his loyalties....Bears all the way. I talked to the guy, you did not. Make up facts if you want, but he is a Bear fan, no doubt.

"...not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point." How can you POSSIBLY know that? Not one? Ever? Who's making up facts now? Looks like you! Sorry, but I will take the word of a person in Denver with access to the local sports reports over you.

[Scott Campbell]

Elite QB ? No...Could he be? yes


Agreed.

But they gave up way more compensation than you'd expect for a prospect.

[sheepshead]

Elite QB ? No...Could he be? yes


Agreed.

But they gave up way more compensation than you'd expect for a prospect.



" Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake"

napoleon bonaparte

[Dabaddestbear]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.
But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?
For one, a present day Packer fan should never use the win loss record as a measurement for a QB. Rodgers only won 6 games for his career! So he must suck also right?

And I read all these Packer fan postings and I guarantee more than half of you will not reply to a post in regards to Cutler being so bad if he rips the Packers a new one in week one. You can put me down on record and save this post (for I will be saving all of these by you guys), that Cutler will vastly improve the Bears, and they will be better than last year. Which may not bode well for the Packers, since the no Bears and their no talented WR's were able to beat the Packers with a much lesser QB. By the way, that QB (Orton) is battling just to be the starter for Denver.

This season gonna be so much more enjoyable just because of these post you guys are making. Have fun.;-)

I'm not sure why you picked my post to challenge, but since you did, I'll play!.

I posted comments from a Denver resident who has watched Cutler's entire NFL career to date, happens to be a life-long Bear fan, and isn't excited at all about Cutler in Chicago. I guess that is a factual report of mixed facts an opinions. My report was factual, his comments were both fact and his opinion based on facts and his first-hand observations.

I acknowledged that Chicago might mature him. I guess that's opinion, but is it really one that you want to dispute, or complain about?

I acknowledged the Bears success against GB under Smith (fact), and said I will have no problem recognizing Cutler as a star if he becomes one (promise,I guess; not fact, not opinion). Will you do the same for Rodgers?

Opinions mostly by all of us? OF COURSE! What else did you expect to get here? Are your posts anything other than opinions? Especially those about Cutler? We form opinions based on facts, rumors, reports, suppositions and even our own desires thrown into the mix. That's what its all about.

The difference on Packerrats is that, for the most part, the participants are realistic. Do you find anyone on here suggesting that Adrian Peterson (Viking version) sucks? Heck, most acknowledge that he might be the best back in the league right now.

Should I accept your OPINION about Cutler more than that of a Bear fan in Denver who has followed Cutler's career in great detail? How much have you seen him play? How much have you followed his off fielld activities? How much do you know about him? Perhaps you will be right, but for the time being I believe the Denver resident Bear fan has the better information on the topic.

If Cutler becomes a star, I think you will find that most on here will admit it, even if a bit grudgingly. Again I ask, will you do the same for Rodgers?
Dont take it in the wrong way, I wasnt picking on your post, I was just pointing out how you and others were saying "facts" when its only opinion. I dont expect a certain vibe on any message board. I do expect at least a few that will use logical arguments when making predictions. Not like oh, he never had a winning season in the NFL as a starter, so he is not worth it, when in that case you guys must thought Rex Grossman was god since he not only had winning seasons but went to the SB!

And that story about that guy just seems like a bitter Bronco fan, much more than a Bears fan. If his argument is that he is not a team player, strange how not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point. So when you say you will take the opinion of a Bronco FAN that saw him play the past few years over a Bears fan, I say that I will take the opinion of the PLAYERS AND COACHES that played with and coached him, over a bitter Bronco fan and a rival Packer fan. :roll:

What did I allege to be fact that is only opinion? When? Where? You can't accuse me and get away without backing it up! :D

The guy is a Bears fan, not a Bronco fan. He follows the Broncos because he moved there and has access to tickets. He readily admitted that there was no comparison about his loyalties....Bears all the way. I talked to the guy, you did not. Make up facts if you want, but he is a Bear fan, no doubt.

"...not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point." How can you POSSIBLY know that? Not one? Ever? Who's making up facts now? Looks like you! Sorry, but I will take the word of a person in Denver with access to the local sports reports over you.
Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid. The only thing that has been said from about him from his teammates and coaches were positive things. So YES, I take there word over a disgruntled FAN any day.

[sharpe1027]

And that story about that guy just seems like a bitter Bronco fan, much more than a Bears fan. If his argument is that he is not a team player, strange how not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point. So when you say you will take the opinion of a Bronco FAN that saw him play the past few years over a Bears fan, I say that I will take the opinion of the PLAYERS AND COACHES that played with and coached him, over a bitter Bronco fan and a rival Packer fan. :roll:

What did I allege to be fact that is only opinion? When? Where? You can't accuse me and get away without backing it up! :D

The guy is a Bears fan, not a Bronco fan. He follows the Broncos because he moved there and has access to tickets. He readily admitted that there was no comparison about his loyalties....Bears all the way. I talked to the guy, you did not. Make up facts if you want, but he is a Bear fan, no doubt.

"...not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point." How can you POSSIBLY know that? Not one? Ever? Who's making up facts now? Looks like you! Sorry, but I will take the word of a person in Denver with access to the local sports reports over you.
Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid. The only thing that has been said from about him from his teammates and coaches were positive things. So YES, I take there word over a disgruntled FAN any day.

I will take a player's actions and results over a player or coaches standard media line.

This wasn't hard to find:

"Denver Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall said he ignored quarterback Jay Cutler's phone calls for about a week this past spring after Cutler was critical of Marshall's off-field indiscretions in the media.

Among other things, Cutler said of his friend and teammate: "He's not my favorite person right now.""

http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2008/09/denver_broncos_qb_jay_cutler_w.html

Marshall has also said that throwing for 4500 yards doesn't mean much if you don't win. I can't imagine who that was directed at.

You also realize that the Broncos refused to let any of their players have media access for weeks before the trade. Maybe to keep his trade value high by making sure none of his teammates said something that would lower his trade value? Do you really expect players to blab to the media about this?

[Fritz]

Looks like Dabaddestbear has the research skills of a . . . bear fan.

[Scott Campbell]

Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid.



Yeah, Jay sounds dreamy. I bet we could start a fan club for him and stuff. That would be cool. I wonder what kind of hair care products he uses.

[Dabaddestbear]

And that story about that guy just seems like a bitter Bronco fan, much more than a Bears fan. If his argument is that he is not a team player, strange how not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point. So when you say you will take the opinion of a Bronco FAN that saw him play the past few years over a Bears fan, I say that I will take the opinion of the PLAYERS AND COACHES that played with and coached him, over a bitter Bronco fan and a rival Packer fan. :roll:

What did I allege to be fact that is only opinion? When? Where? You can't accuse me and get away without backing it up! :D

The guy is a Bears fan, not a Bronco fan. He follows the Broncos because he moved there and has access to tickets. He readily admitted that there was no comparison about his loyalties....Bears all the way. I talked to the guy, you did not. Make up facts if you want, but he is a Bear fan, no doubt.

"...not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point." How can you POSSIBLY know that? Not one? Ever? Who's making up facts now? Looks like you! Sorry, but I will take the word of a person in Denver with access to the local sports reports over you.
Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid. The only thing that has been said from about him from his teammates and coaches were positive things. So YES, I take there word over a disgruntled FAN any day.

I will take a player's actions and results over a player or coaches standard media line.

This wasn't hard to find:

"Denver Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall said he ignored quarterback Jay Cutler's phone calls for about a week this past spring after Cutler was critical of Marshall's off-field indiscretions in the media.

Among other things, Cutler said of his friend and teammate: "He's not my favorite person right now.""

http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2008/09/denver_broncos_qb_jay_cutler_w.html

Marshall has also said that throwing for 4500 yards doesn't mean much if you don't win. I can't imagine who that was directed at.

You also realize that the Broncos refused to let any of their players have media access for weeks before the trade. Maybe to keep his trade value high by making sure none of his teammates said something that would lower his trade value? Do you really expect players to blab to the media about this?
Are you serious? The only thing you can find is from the King of Domestic Abuse, Marshall!!??? lol
And it wasnt about Cutler, it was about Cutler calling MARSHALL about his actions.

And even if they kept the players and other coaches from talking to the media during the whole trade fiasco, what does that have to do with them not talking now? or better yet anytime before then?

That was too easy.

[Scott Campbell]

Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player except Brandon Marshall on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid.


Fixed.

[pbmax]

C'mon DBB, are you really arguing that the lack of an on the record quote from someone other than Brandon Marshall is PROOF that Cutler will be a leader, or at a minimum we have no basis to question his leadership skills?

I think it would be better to start with the question why did he sandbag his owner and extract a promise that his offensive coordinator would be retained after firing Shanahan. And after that came to pass, why did he ask for a trade?

To me, that sounds like he believes his needs come before the team. Not exactly the priority list of leadership. It has occasionally worked, but Elway-Shanahan is rarely duplicated.

[sharpe1027]

Are you serious? The only thing you can find is from the King of Domestic Abuse, Marshall!!??? lol
And it wasnt about Cutler, it was about Cutler calling MARSHALL about his actions.

And even if they kept the players and other coaches from talking to the media during the whole trade fiasco, what does that have to do with them not talking now? or better yet anytime before then?

That was too easy.

I'm sorry, I thought you said it was a fact that no player or coach had ever hinted anything bad about Cutler? Maybe you have a different definition of facts. Please explain.

[Bretsky]

Are you serious? The only thing you can find is from the King of Domestic Abuse, Marshall!!??? lol
And it wasnt about Cutler, it was about Cutler calling MARSHALL about his actions.

And even if they kept the players and other coaches from talking to the media during the whole trade fiasco, what does that have to do with them not talking now? or better yet anytime before then?

That was too easy.

I'm sorry, I thought you said it was a fact that no player or coach had ever hinted anything bad about Cutler? Maybe you have a different definition of facts. Please explain.


classic backtracking at its best

[Fred's Slacks]

Are you serious? The only thing you can find is from the King of Domestic Abuse, Marshall!!??? lol
And it wasnt about Cutler, it was about Cutler calling MARSHALL about his actions.

And even if they kept the players and other coaches from talking to the media during the whole trade fiasco, what does that have to do with them not talking now? or better yet anytime before then?

That was too easy.

I'm sorry, I thought you said it was a fact that no player or coach had ever hinted anything bad about Cutler? Maybe you have a different definition of facts. Please explain.


classic backtracking at its best

I expected nothing less.

It's comical how every post gets torn to shreads, yet he keeps coming back for more.

[cpk1994]

Are you serious? The only thing you can find is from the King of Domestic Abuse, Marshall!!??? lol
And it wasnt about Cutler, it was about Cutler calling MARSHALL about his actions.

And even if they kept the players and other coaches from talking to the media during the whole trade fiasco, what does that have to do with them not talking now? or better yet anytime before then?

That was too easy.

I'm sorry, I thought you said it was a fact that no player or coach had ever hinted anything bad about Cutler? Maybe you have a different definition of facts. Please explain.


classic backtracking at its best

I expected nothing less.

It's comical how every post gets torn to shreads, yet he keeps coming back for more.Partial is the same way. Maybe DaBaddestBear is another identity of Partial's? :lol:

[Pacopete4]

Dont worry DaBaddestBear... just please dont rub it in our faces too bad when Cutler tears shit apart on the Bears for the next 10 years.. remember that all Packers fans are not ass clowns, thats all I ask..

[Dabaddestbear]

Are you serious? The only thing you can find is from the King of Domestic Abuse, Marshall!!??? lol
And it wasnt about Cutler, it was about Cutler calling MARSHALL about his actions.

And even if they kept the players and other coaches from talking to the media during the whole trade fiasco, what does that have to do with them not talking now? or better yet anytime before then?

That was too easy.

I'm sorry, I thought you said it was a fact that no player or coach had ever hinted anything bad about Cutler? Maybe you have a different definition of facts. Please explain.
How is that hinting something bad?
You got a player that was screwing up big time off the field and when Cutler tries to contact him to talk to him about it (Thats what team leaders do) the disgruntled player blows up on Cutler. Ala Javon Walker and your used to be Golden boy Brett. You know the same Brett that majority of you all defended on here and blasted Walker :roll:

So Marshall did not come out and blast Cutler, he just tried to bounce the media attention from him from beating down another woman. Whats next a quote from T.O. about Cutler? Ya'll can do better than that.

And I still no one on here has proven how what he does on the field shows that he will not be a good leader. But keep it going, and I am sure the crow will be hot and ready for those that is using this crazy stuff as a reason to pile on. :)

[Joemailman]

Dont worry DaBaddestBear... just please dont rub it in our faces too bad when Cutler tears shit apart on the Bears for the next 10 years.. remember that all Packers fans are not ass clowns, thats all I ask..

What's the penalty around here for fraternizing with the enemy?

[cpk1994]

Dont worry DaBaddestBear... just please dont rub it in our faces too bad when Cutler tears shit apart on the Bears for the next 10 years.. remember that all Packers fans are not ass clowns, thats all I ask..

What's the penalty around here for fraternizing with the enemy?No need for a pentaly. It's just one troll talking to another. :lol:

[Pacopete4]

Dont worry DaBaddestBear... just please dont rub it in our faces too bad when Cutler tears shit apart on the Bears for the next 10 years.. remember that all Packers fans are not ass clowns, thats all I ask..

What's the penalty around here for fraternizing with the enemy?No need for a pentaly. It's just one troll talking to another. :lol:


No troll... just think Cutler is going to make a huge difference to that team and I cant believe the number of Packer fans shooting their mouths off about Cutler... its going to end up rather embarrassing...

[falco]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.

[Partial]

Partial is the same way. Maybe DaBaddestBear is another identity of Partial's? :lol:

Mature.

[Pacopete4]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.


Just cuz my view isn't against the Bears shouldn't effect anything.. I was simply stating my opinion, just like others were doing.. It just happens that my opinion is that the Bears now have one hell of a QB..

[falco]

Just cuz my view isn't against the Bears shouldn't effect anything.. I was simply stating my opinion, just like others were doing.. It just happens that my opinion is that the Bears now have one hell of a QB..

Funny, I share the same opinion except I can say it without being an ass about it.

[cpk1994]

Partial is the same way. Maybe DaBaddestBear is another identity of Partial's? :lol:

Mature.Well, when he is spouting BS the same way you are, its an easy joke to make. And it was a joke, so lighten up Francis. :lol:

[Partial]

Partial is the same way. Maybe DaBaddestBear is another identity of Partial's? :lol:

Mature.Well, when he is spouting BS the same way you are, its an easy joke to make. And it was a joke, so lighten up Francis. :lol:

No, it's not a joke. I certainly didn't find it very funny. It's childish. It's attacking a poster without any rhyme, or reason, when they didn't contribute anything to this thread. I'm reporting you to the Administrator.

[ThunderDan]

Just cuz my view isn't against the Bears shouldn't effect anything.. I was simply stating my opinion, just like others were doing.. It just happens that my opinion is that the Bears now have one hell of a QB..

Funny, I share the same opinion except I can say it without being an ass about it.

Ding Ding Ding .... we have a winner!!!

[falco]

Partial is the same way. Maybe DaBaddestBear is another identity of Partial's? :lol:

Mature.Well, when he is spouting BS the same way you are, its an easy joke to make. And it was a joke, so lighten up Francis. :lol:

No, it's not a joke. I certainly didn't find it very funny. It's childish. It's attacking a poster without any rhyme, or reason, when they didn't contribute anything to this thread. I'm reporting you to the Administrator.

do us all a favor and just report each other.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm reporting you to the Administrator.


:shock:

[Lurker64]

I'm reporting you to the Administrator.


:shock:

J'accuse!

[Bretsky]

IMO it's in poor taste and disrespectful when posters refer to other posters as trolls or comparing a poster in a negative manner with another poster.


Bush league

[KYPack]

That's it, Partial.
Get all that shit started again.

No, wait.

Why don't you shut up and take it like a man.

[cpk1994]

Partial is the same way. Maybe DaBaddestBear is another identity of Partial's? :lol:

Mature.Well, when he is spouting BS the same way you are, its an easy joke to make. And it was a joke, so lighten up Francis. :lol:

No, it's not a joke. I certainly didn't find it very funny. It's childish. It's attacking a poster without any rhyme, or reason, when they didn't contribute anything to this thread. I'm reporting you to the Administrator.Consider yourself reported for calling other fourm posters, including me douches.

[Scott Campbell]

I think everybody just needs to take a deep breath and punch Harlan in the balls.

If people start running to the Admin over every little dust up this thing will never work. The answer is simple - more beer.

[cpk1994]

IMO it's in poor taste and disrespectful when posters refer to other posters as trolls or comparing a poster in a negative manner with another poster.


Bush leagueIt wasn't being negative. In fact, I like Dabaddestbear becuase like most delusional bear fans, I find them harmless and funny.

As for the troll reference, it isn't disrespectful when the one being referred to has admitted to being one.

Back on topic, I don't fear Cutler. I think our D will handle him fine. They handled him with Sanders at the helm, I have no dobt Capers will scheme beat him fine as well.

[cpk1994]

I think everybody just needs to take a deep breath and punch Harlan in the balls.

If people start running to the Admin over every little dust up this thing will never work. The answer is simple - more beer.I forgot about your serenity plan(no excuse seeing as how I pulg it in my sig :oops: ). I need to start using it agin.

[Bretsky]

IMO it's in poor taste and disrespectful when posters refer to other posters as trolls or comparing a poster in a negative manner with another poster.


Bush leagueIt wasn't being negative. In fact, I like Dabaddestbear becuase like most delusional bear fans, I find them harmless and funny.

As for the troll reference, it isn't disrespectful when the one being referred to has admitted to being one.

Back on topic, I don't fear Cutler. I think our D will handle him fine. They handled him with Sanders at the helm, I have no dobt Capers will scheme beat him fine as well.



sure, it wasn't negative. Wanna buy a bridge ?

Anybody who reads your posts are fully aware you are very negative against Partial. You'd be about the last person he'd expect a joking reference from.

Calling somebody a troll is disrespectful and it's sad if you don't agree

It's ok to bash a point without being a jerk and bashing a poster

[cpk1994]

Calling somebody a troll is disrespectful and it's sad if you don't agree

It's ok to bash a point without being a jerk and bashing a poster


It is disrepectful unless you admit to being a troll in the first place. Then it is saying what it is.

I also fiund it hypocritcal you call me out that joke, but others have used that same joke againt Partial and nothing said by you. Most understand it was a joke. If that one had been used against me, and trust me I have seen many attacks against me, I would let it go as I have before.

[sharpe1027]

How is that hinting something bad?


I don't know. You are the one who said it was an important fact that nobody hinted anything. Are you you saying you don't understand the logic behind your own posts? I'm as lost as you are.

[Bretsky]

Calling somebody a troll is disrespectful and it's sad if you don't agree

It's ok to bash a point without being a jerk and bashing a poster


It is disrepectful unless you admit to being a troll in the first place. Then it is saying what it is.

I also fiund it hypocritcal you call me out that joke, but others have used that same joke againt Partial and nothing said by you. Most understand it was a joke. If that one had been used against me, and trust me I have seen many attacks against me, I would let it go as I have before.

First off, show me the source where Paco said he was a "troll". And I don't want any more cause and effect reasoning that illustrates that he conveniently fits your definition of a troll. Did Paco note it's alright if you call him a troll ? Do you deny you use it negatively and disrespectfully ?

Hypocritical; call it like you want. Maybe it is, or perhaps you illustrate a pattern of doing this better than just about anyone :idea:

I'm just calling a lemon a lemon.

Now that I'm NOT a mod I find this easier to do because I'm not as politically correct.

I've witnessed plenty of the one liner insults and then the few times you are called out you use the copout reasoning that you were joking with one of the guys you dislike the most.

And surely he'd read it like that.

I doubt hardly anybody thought it was a joke; you have a pattern of those so called "joking" insults

[pbmax]

IMO it's in poor taste and disrespectful when posters refer to other posters as trolls or comparing a poster in a negative manner with another poster.


Bush league
How about the always popular "haters" and "lovers"?

Even if its a poster I normally like, if I see a form of either of those words in it, I skip to the next. Some threads, that leaves little left to read.

[Bretsky]

IMO it's in poor taste and disrespectful when posters refer to other posters as trolls or comparing a poster in a negative manner with another poster.


Bush league
How about the always popular "haters" and "lovers"?

Even if its a poster I normally like, if I see a form of either of those works in it, I skip to the next. Some threads, that leaves little left to read.


Interesting observation...and I won't argue either way I guess. As a mod I always winced when somebody was called a troll, idiot, retarded...stupid......but never really thought much of a TT lover/hater or Favre lover/hater

[pbmax]

First off, show me the source where Paco said he was a "troll".
I actually think paco did use this term, however, I don't think paco was confessing to posting here only to cause trouble. I think his point was that he would continue to be troll-like when faced with those posters who disagree with him most strenuously. He was baiting someone (probably cpk) and used a very poor choice of words. I am not defending paco nor his tomentor. CPK has used this "confession" to excuse a number of ridiculous posts.

But both sides have continued to constantly refer to one another to validate their point. If I were the admin, I would delete any post that referred to the other side of the debate to support or excuse their otherwise thinly sourced opinions or insults.

[Bretsky]

First off, show me the source where Paco said he was a "troll".
I actually think paco did use this term, however, I don't think paco was confessing to posting here only to cause trouble. I think his point was that he would continue to be troll-like when faced with those posters who disagree with him most strenuously. He was baiting someone (probably cpk) and used a very poor choice of words. I am not defending paco nor his tomentor. CPK has used this "confession" to excuse a number of ridiculous posts.
But both sides have continued to constantly refer to one another to validate their point. If I were the admin, I would delete any post that referred to the other side of the debate to support or excuse their otherwise thinly sourced opinions or insults.


I completely agree with everything you noted and especially the bolded part

[cpk1994]

Calling somebody a troll is disrespectful and it's sad if you don't agree

It's ok to bash a point without being a jerk and bashing a poster


It is disrepectful unless you admit to being a troll in the first place. Then it is saying what it is.

I also fiund it hypocritcal you call me out that joke, but others have used that same joke againt Partial and nothing said by you. Most understand it was a joke. If that one had been used against me, and trust me I have seen many attacks against me, I would let it go as I have before.

First off, show me the source where Paco said he was a "troll". And I don't want any more cause and effect reasoning that illustrates that he conveniently fits your definition of a troll. Did Paco note it's alright if you call him a troll ? Do you deny you use it negatively and disrespectfully ?

Hypocritical; call it like you want. Maybe it is, or perhaps you illustrate a pattern of doing this better than just about anyone :idea:

I'm just calling a lemon a lemon.

Now that I'm NOT a mod I find this easier to do because I'm not as politically correct.

I've witnessed plenty of the one liner insults and then the few times you are called out you use the copout reasoning that you were joking with one of the guys you dislike the most.

And surely he'd read it like that.

I doubt hardly anybody thought it was a joke; you have a pattern of those so called "joking" insultsReally? Becuase there was one poster to tell him to act like a man and a couple others who kind of mocked his response. It's very obvious they got it. Especially considering it's not an original joke.

As for Paco he admitted to another poster that he was posting stuff to get a rise out of others and admitted to bating another poster, which happened to be me(It didn't work becuase it was a very obvious baiting attempt).

Pb, you have it mostly right except that he made the admissions I mentioned first, then only later mentioning he would continue toi be troll-like to certain people.

Paco to his credit handled the jokes well, either just letting them roll off or politey asking a question in a response. He handeld it a lot better than Partial did, and for that I respect him.

[Pacopete4]

CPK, do u notice ur always in the middle of the problem though? Just let it go man.. We don't want the new admin to think were a bunch of clowns

[cpk1994]

CPK, do u notice ur always in the middle of the problem though? Just let it go man.. We don't want the new admin to think were a bunch of clownsI don't have anything to let go. I made a joke. You didn't think it was funny, so you let it go. End of story. What became the problem was that Partial handled my jab at him like a 4th grade tattle tale. If he had basically ignored it like you had, about 2 pages of posts wouldn't exist. I will note one more time that the joke about Partial had been used a few times before by others and no one lashed out at those.

[Pacopete4]

CPK, do u notice ur always in the middle of the problem though? Just let it go man.. We don't want the new admin to think were a bunch of clownsI don't have anything to let go. I made a joke. You didn't think it was funny, so you let it go. End of story. What became the problem was that Partial handled my jab at him like a 4th grade tattle tale. If he had basically ignored it like you had, about 2 pages of posts wouldn't exist. I will note one more time that the joke about Partial had been used a few times before by others and no one lashed out at those.

Everyone has their own feelings on things.. Just move on bud.. Not a big deal. If he didn't like it, apologize and move on.. Simple

[th87]

The Internet's serious business, you know.

[Zool]

This is quite the amazing thread.

[Dabaddestbear]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.
You cant be serious? Lets see, an average game manager, over someone that strikes fear in opposing secondaries...hmmm :roll:
Orton isnt even locked in to start in Denver! Its amusing how some of you heap praise on Orton now that he is no longer a Bear. He as a serviceable QB yes, but not one that any team really felt they had to prepare for.

[Zool]

I'm pretty sure he was agreeing with you? Otherwise why would he have called Cutler a "huge upgrade to the bears". Perhaps you quoted the wrong guy?

[Bossman641]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.
You cant be serious? Lets see, an average game manager, over someone that strikes fear in opposing secondaries...hmmm :roll:
Orton isnt even locked in to start in Denver! Its amusing how some of you heap praise on Orton now that he is no longer a Bear. He as a serviceable QB yes, but not one that any team really felt they had to prepare for.

It's also amazing how you and other Bear fans talked about how tight Orton was last year and now that he's gone he was just serviceable.

[Fred's Slacks]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.
You cant be serious? Lets see, an average game manager, over someone that strikes fear in opposing secondaries...hmmm :roll:
Orton isnt even locked in to start in Denver! Its amusing how some of you heap praise on Orton now that he is no longer a Bear. He as a serviceable QB yes, but not one that any team really felt they had to prepare for.

Did you miss this part? No where did he say that you take Orton over Cutler. He says right there that Cutler is OBVIOUSLY A HUGE UPGRADE.

Go on taking things out of context and using your little :roll: emoticon to try to make other posts look stupid. Its having the opposite effect.

[Scott Campbell]

Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player except Brandon Marshall on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid.


Fixed.

[Patler]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.
You cant be serious? Lets see, an average game manager, over someone that strikes fear in opposing secondaries...hmmm :roll:
Orton isnt even locked in to start in Denver! Its amusing how some of you heap praise on Orton now that he is no longer a Bear. He as a serviceable QB yes, but not one that any team really felt they had to prepare for.

So now Cutler "strikes fear in opposing secondaries"???
Perhaps I should accentuate the absurdity with: :roll:

It is extremely rare for any pro athlete to fear another. Favre didn't "strike fear" in them. They knew he might pull off a play to beat them, but they also knew he might dish up an interception opportunity. Cutler is similar, but not to the same degree on the "might beat you" scale. Most relish the challenge of the situation, and have confidence that they will succeed. That's what makes them pros.

[Patler]

Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid. The only thing that has been said from about him from his teammates and coaches were positive things. So YES, I take there word over a disgruntled FAN any day.

You will take "...there (sic) word"? What word? You claim they said nothing. There is no word to take.

The Bear fan in Denver likely was referring to those bits of information you get on a local level from reporters who have direct access to the locker room, players, etc. and comments you get from players indirectly. The way they say things, as much as what they say.

So at least one fully committed, unabashed, lifelong Bear fan with a more complete feel than you or me for what Cutler has been to date in the NFL does not share you optimism. Of course, that does not mean that Cutler might not change, develop, mature.

One thing that this will give the Bears is a stable starter at QB, something they haven't had in a long time. Cutler will not be second guessed this season, or maybe even next even if 2009 does not go well. That alone will be an improvement.

[Fritz]

You strike fear into me, Patler.

[cpk1994]

Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid. The only thing that has been said from about him from his teammates and coaches were positive things. So YES, I take there word over a disgruntled FAN any day.

You will take "...there (sic) word"? What word? You claim they said nothing. There is no word to take.

The Bear fan in Denver likely was referring to those bits of information you get on a local level from reporters who have direct access to the locker room, players, etc. and comments you get from players indirectly. The way they say things, as much as what they say.

So at least one fully committed, unabashed, lifelong Bear fan with a more complete feel than you or me for what Cutler has been to date in the NFL does not share you optimism. Of course, that does not mean that Cutler might not change, develop, mature.

One thing that this will give the Bears is a stable starter at QB, something they haven't had in a long time. Cutler will not be second guessed this season, or maybe even next even if 2009 does not go well. That alone will be an improvement.I disagree about the second guessing. If Cutler plays poorly enough, the Bear fans will turn on him in a heartbeat and will crank up the heat on Bears management. You are giving Bears fans too much credit.

[Fritz]

Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid. The only thing that has been said from about him from his teammates and coaches were positive things. So YES, I take there word over a disgruntled FAN any day.

You will take "...there (sic) word"? What word? You claim they said nothing. There is no word to take.

The Bear fan in Denver likely was referring to those bits of information you get on a local level from reporters who have direct access to the locker room, players, etc. and comments you get from players indirectly. The way they say things, as much as what they say.

So at least one fully committed, unabashed, lifelong Bear fan with a more complete feel than you or me for what Cutler has been to date in the NFL does not share you optimism. Of course, that does not mean that Cutler might not change, develop, mature.

One thing that this will give the Bears is a stable starter at QB, something they haven't had in a long time. Cutler will not be second guessed this season, or maybe even next even if 2009 does not go well. That alone will be an improvement.I disagree about the second guessing. If Cutler plays poorly enough, the Bear fans will turn on him in a heartbeat and will crank up the heat on Bears management. You are giving Bears fans too much credit.

Clearly, Dabaddestbear is a gruntled fan.

[pbmax]

Clearly, Dabaddestbear is a gruntled fan.
Maybe he needs to be juvenated.

[Dabaddestbear]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.
You cant be serious? Lets see, an average game manager, over someone that strikes fear in opposing secondaries...hmmm :roll:
Orton isnt even locked in to start in Denver! Its amusing how some of you heap praise on Orton now that he is no longer a Bear. He as a serviceable QB yes, but not one that any team really felt they had to prepare for.

It's also amazing how you and other Bear fans talked about how tight Orton was last year and now that he's gone he was just serviceable.
Once again a made up fact to support bull. Show me where I was talking about how "tight" he was last year? :roll:

[Dabaddestbear]

Not making that up. Google it, search all you want, there has NEVER been one player on his team or coach that from last year or beyond that ever had anything to say about the kid. The only thing that has been said from about him from his teammates and coaches were positive things. So YES, I take there word over a disgruntled FAN any day.

You will take "...there (sic) word"? What word? You claim they said nothing. There is no word to take.

The Bear fan in Denver likely was referring to those bits of information you get on a local level from reporters who have direct access to the locker room, players, etc. and comments you get from players indirectly. The way they say things, as much as what they say.

So at least one fully committed, unabashed, lifelong Bear fan with a more complete feel than you or me for what Cutler has been to date in the NFL does not share you optimism. Of course, that does not mean that Cutler might not change, develop, mature.

One thing that this will give the Bears is a stable starter at QB, something they haven't had in a long time. Cutler will not be second guessed this season, or maybe even next even if 2009 does not go well. That alone will be an improvement.I disagree about the second guessing. If Cutler plays poorly enough, the Bear fans will turn on him in a heartbeat and will crank up the heat on Bears management. You are giving Bears fans too much credit.
And the same will happen here if Rodgers plays poor. Hell, it will happen in any sports city. Thats what sport fans do. :wink:

[Dabaddestbear]

Clearly, Dabaddestbear is a gruntled fan.
Maybe he needs to be juvenated.
maybe you both are right. 8-)

[cpk1994]

paco, in all honesty, what are you trying to accomplish?

i think its obvious to most that cutler is going to be a huge upgrade to the bears (even though there is an argument that orton was coming into his own as a game manager).

but you're either

a) trying to provoke people around here with your rhetoric
b) a luke warm packer fan at best

I'm personally going with a, but its anyones guess at this point.
You cant be serious? Lets see, an average game manager, over someone that strikes fear in opposing secondaries...hmmm :roll:
Orton isnt even locked in to start in Denver! Its amusing how some of you heap praise on Orton now that he is no longer a Bear. He as a serviceable QB yes, but not one that any team really felt they had to prepare for.

It's also amazing how you and other Bear fans talked about how tight Orton was last year and now that he's gone he was just serviceable.
Once again a made up fact to support bull. Show me where I was talking about how "tight" he was last year? :roll:It was probably during your pillow talk with Orton.