Offensive Line Analysis

[Phil03]

Hey guys,
I wrote an analysis of the Packers offensive line as I did last year for my website:
http://www.ultimateffstrategy.com/2009_OLine/green_bay_packers.htm

The actual rankings will be finished sometime next week if you're curious to see where I rank the Packers line.

Feel free to post any comments, suggestions or corrections I should make to my article.

Thanks,
Phil

[SkinBasket]

Nice article. I forget sometimes that Clifton was a 2000 pick. He carries about twice as many years on that body than he's played.

[vince]

Good job Phil.

Many are higher on Giacomini and believe he has more potential than you described in the one sentence he's mentioned in the article.


Competing with him will be Breno Giacomini who was a fifth round pick in 2008 but he has not been particularly impressive and recently had a surgery on his ankle.
Giaco has good size (6'7" 315) and is a converted TE, so he should be athletic enough to compete. He reportedly fared well against Kampman consistently throughout his time in practice last season. I happen to be a Barbre fan, so I agree with your general take on the RT spot, but my perception is that "he has not been particularly impressive" is not entirely accurate.


Overall, we expect pass protection to be somewhat of a problem once again and could be slightly worse than last year (although the number of sacks should be similar since Rodgers has more experience)
I'm not sure what you're basing this expectation on, but I expect the Packers pass protection to improve this year. Clifton suffered from problems in both knees last year, which probably impacted his performance. He had both knees cleaned up in the offseason and reportedly has worked very hard rehabbing this offseason and is experiencing no pain at all any more (although he sat out OTA's and minicamp, which is to be expected for him at this point).

Also, as you noted, Rodgers tended to lock on to receivers and hold on to the ball to a much greater extent than his predecessor, and its reasonable to expect that should be an area of improvement this year.

Increased stability through greater depth this year, more stoutness against the middle push with the combination of Spitz/Sitton rather than Wells/Spitz or Spitz/Moll as you mentioned, and a healthy Clifton should reflect improved performance in an area that does need improvement.

[Scott Campbell]

Agreed. Nice article, and very impressive coming from someone who is not exclusively a Packer fan.

I think our OL is possibly the biggest Packer question mark going into the year. Our switch to the 3-4 is obviously a huge deal too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agreed. Nice article, and very impressive coming from someone who is not exclusively a Packer fan.

I think our OL is possibly the biggest Packer question mark going into the year. Our switch to the 3-4 is obviously a huge deal too.

I have a REALLY good feeling about our interior OL, if it's Colledge-Spitz-Sitton. Clifton is Clifton. He's gotten old, but he's still a good pass protector. RT is the big concern. Hopefully, Barbre takes command there. The entire defense is pretty much a question mark--albeit with some good potential in all units.

[Scott Campbell]

I can't imagine our D playing worse than last year. I can imagine our O line playing worse than last year. I'm not convinced that Cliffy makes it through the 2009, and replacing two tackles in 1 year is an extremely tall order.

[sharpe1027]

I liked the article. I agreed with pretty much everything.

I think one of the biggest improvements over last year will be the ability to handle injuries by plugging in one guy at the injured position. Last year it seemed that any injury meant a change in positions for two to three guys.

I also would not be surprised to see one of the rookies push for a starting position.

[Lurker64]

I think you're undervaluing Colledge. Early in his career he struggled with power, but years in an NFL weight room have paid off. In 2007 he struggled with consistency, but was greatly improved last year. I really think that he's probably our best offensive lineman. Take, for example, basically every long Ryan Grant run of the last couple years. They've pretty much all come on inside zone runs, and that's Colledge's play. He's one of our few offensive linemen who is consistently getting to the second level on running plays.

[Scott Campbell]

I think you're undervaluing Colledge.


I think it takes a while for OL to shed labels - good or bad.

[Waldo]

I think you're undervaluing Colledge. Early in his career he struggled with power, but years in an NFL weight room have paid off. In 2007 he struggled with consistency, but was greatly improved last year. I really think that he's probably our best offensive lineman. Take, for example, basically every long Ryan Grant run of the last couple years. They've pretty much all come on inside zone runs, and that's Colledge's play. He's one of our few offensive linemen who is consistently getting to the second level on running plays.

Consistency has always been Colledge's issue. Even as a rookie he occasionally dominated.

Both of our really long ones last year came off Colledge blocks, week 1 he pwned Phat Pat by himself 1 on 1 springing Grant, week 17 he was a bulldozer plowing half the defense out of Wynn's way, Wynn didn't get past Daryns blocking until he was 20+ yards downfield.

Aaron snuck behind Colledge almost always. He is very good on the 2nd level, he knows what to do and is very hard to "shed" against for linebackers as he isn't some big lumbering fatty, he's very athletic and coordinated. He plants linebackers on their rear end quite often, and is probably one of the leagues best 2nd level lineman.

Daryn has occasionally been inconsistent as a pass protector and will whiff on run blocks occasionally, but he is the only GB lineman that dominates with any regularity, and he got much more consistent last year.

[Scott Campbell]

Daryn has occasionally been inconsistent as a pass protector and will whiff on run blocks occasionally........


And those whiffs have been exceptionally ugly, and obvious even to the casual fan. I think they dominate most peoples perception of his performance.

[pbmax]

I think you're undervaluing Colledge. Early in his career he struggled with power, but years in an NFL weight room have paid off. In 2007 he struggled with consistency, but was greatly improved last year. I really think that he's probably our best offensive lineman. Take, for example, basically every long Ryan Grant run of the last couple years. They've pretty much all come on inside zone runs, and that's Colledge's play. He's one of our few offensive linemen who is consistently getting to the second level on running plays.

Consistency has always been Colledge's issue. Even as a rookie he occasionally dominated.

Both of our really long ones last year came off Colledge blocks, week 1 he pwned Phat Pat by himself 1 on 1 springing Grant, week 17 he was a bulldozer plowing half the defense out of Wynn's way, Wynn didn't get past Daryns blocking until he was 20+ yards downfield.

Aaron snuck behind Colledge almost always. He is very good on the 2nd level, he knows what to do and is very hard to "shed" against for linebackers as he isn't some big lumbering fatty, he's very athletic and coordinated. He plants linebackers on their rear end quite often, and is probably one of the leagues best 2nd level lineman.

Daryn has occasionally been inconsistent as a pass protector and will whiff on run blocks occasionally, but he is the only GB lineman that dominates with any regularity, and he got much more consistent last year.
Agree completely, especially with Lurker on the strength issue. Colledge also single blocked Pat Williams into the endzone for a short yardage TD in the Lambeau game. I nearly fell off the couch while watching the replay.

I think Colledge will come completely into his own this year. He won't get any attention for Pro Bowl, but I expect his level of play to be close to that.

[Phil03]

Good job Phil.

Many are higher on Giacomini and believe he has more potential than you described in the one sentence he's mentioned in the article.


Competing with him will be Breno Giacomini who was a fifth round pick in 2008 but he has not been particularly impressive and recently had a surgery on his ankle.
Giaco has good size (6'7" 315) and is a converted TE, so he should be athletic enough to compete. He reportedly fared well against Kampman consistently throughout his time in practice last season. I happen to be a Barbre fan, so I agree with your general take on the RT spot, but my perception is that "he has not been particularly impressive" is not entirely accurate.


Overall, we expect pass protection to be somewhat of a problem once again and could be slightly worse than last year (although the number of sacks should be similar since Rodgers has more experience)
I'm not sure what you're basing this expectation on, but I expect the Packers pass protection to improve this year. Clifton suffered from problems in both knees last year, which probably impacted his performance. He had both knees cleaned up in the offseason and reportedly has worked very hard rehabbing this offseason and is experiencing no pain at all any more (although he sat out OTA's and minicamp, which is to be expected for him at this point).

Also, as you noted, Rodgers tended to lock on to receivers and hold on to the ball to a much greater extent than his predecessor, and its reasonable to expect that should be an area of improvement this year.

Increased stability through greater depth this year, more stoutness against the middle push with the combination of Spitz/Sitton rather than Wells/Spitz or Spitz/Moll as you mentioned, and a healthy Clifton should reflect improved performance in an area that does need improvement.

My prediction on pass protection was based on Clifton slowing down a little and Tauscher likely being replaced by Barbre who might struggle in pass protection early in the year.

Thinking about it again though I'm reconsidering and I think I'm underrating Clifton and not considering how good he was until last year / the possibility that he could bounce back.

[Phil03]

Just edited the article slightly, thanks vince.

[Waldo]

My prediction on pass protection was based on Clifton slowing down a little and Tauscher likely being replaced by Barbre who might struggle in pass protection early in the year.

Tausher/Moll struggled in pass pro last year. Tausher gave up nearly as much pressure as Clifton did, and Moll gave up a good bit too. But they got to Aaron less than half as much as they did off the left.

Good QB's rarely ever get sacked off RT pass pro. This isn't nearly as big of a concern as people make it out to be. As long as guys don't come unblocked, decent RH QB's can see it coming and react accordingly. It is much more important to have a dominant run blocker at RT than it is to have a dominant pass blocker, when you have a good RH QB. The overall effect on the offense is much greater.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good QB's rarely ever get sacked off RT pass pro. This isn't nearly as big of a concern as people make it out to be. As long as guys don't come unblocked, decent RH QB's can see it coming and react accordingly. It is much more important to have a dominant run blocker at RT than it is to have a dominant pass blocker, when you have a good RH QB. The overall effect on the offense is much greater.

I think you are pooh-poohing this too much. Rodgers might not get sacked, but if the RT isn't holding up, he's going to feel the pressure. That will cause more forced throws and more scrambles (giving us less chance to hit the big play).

[Scott Campbell]

Good QB's rarely ever get sacked off RT pass pro. This isn't nearly as big of a concern as people make it out to be. As long as guys don't come unblocked, decent RH QB's can see it coming and react accordingly. It is much more important to have a dominant run blocker at RT than it is to have a dominant pass blocker, when you have a good RH QB. The overall effect on the offense is much greater.

I think you are pooh-poohing this too much. Rodgers might not get sacked, but if the RT isn't holding up, he's going to feel the pressure. That will cause more forced throws and more scrambles (giving us less chance to hit the big play).


Perhaps what he means is that pressure from the right side is usually bad. Pressure from the left side is often disastrous.

[rbaloha1]

Nice and accurate assessment of the o-line. Finally the o-line may have the correct athletes to run the zbs scheme properly.

The talent and depth could be a strength for a number of years. Much has been written about Colledge. Without a doubt the dude has improved upper body strength. However Colledge does not play with a nasty streak like Wahle and Barbre. If Colledege played with a nastier attitude he could become one of the better guards in the NFC.

This Colledege money year -- expect a solid season and a huge payday.

[cpk1994]

Nice and accurate assessment of the o-line. Finally the o-line may have the correct athletes to run the zbs scheme properly.

The talent and depth could be a strength for a number of years. Much has been written about Colledge. Without a doubt the dude has improved upper body strength. However Colledge does not play with a nasty streak like Wahle and Barbre. If Colledege played with a nastier attitude he could become one of the better guards in the NFC.

This Colledege money year -- expect a solid season and a huge payday.I agree with this. But the big key will be Mike McCarthy. He needs to settle on who his 5 guys are gonna be and stick with it. Constantly shuffling the deck like he did last year prevents the cohesion and chemistry that is needed to make a good line.

[rbaloha1]

Nice and accurate assessment of the o-line. Finally the o-line may have the correct athletes to run the zbs scheme properly.

The talent and depth could be a strength for a number of years. Much has been written about Colledge. Without a doubt the dude has improved upper body strength. However Colledge does not play with a nasty streak like Wahle and Barbre. If Colledege played with a nastier attitude he could become one of the better guards in the NFC.

This is Colledge's money year -- expect a solid season and a huge payday.I agree with this. But the big key will be Mike McCarthy. He needs to settle on who his 5 guys are gonna be and stick with it. Constantly shuffling the deck like he did last year prevents the cohesion and chemistry that is needed to make a good line.

Noted. Find the correct five and go with it. Also the backups must play only one position. IMO the bodies are available.

[bobblehead]

I think you're undervaluing Colledge. Early in his career he struggled with power, but years in an NFL weight room have paid off. In 2007 he struggled with consistency, but was greatly improved last year. I really think that he's probably our best offensive lineman. Take, for example, basically every long Ryan Grant run of the last couple years. They've pretty much all come on inside zone runs, and that's Colledge's play. He's one of our few offensive linemen who is consistently getting to the second level on running plays.

Consistency has always been Colledge's issue. Even as a rookie he occasionally dominated.

Both of our really long ones last year came off Colledge blocks, week 1 he pwned Phat Pat by himself 1 on 1 springing Grant, week 17 he was a bulldozer plowing half the defense out of Wynn's way, Wynn didn't get past Daryns blocking until he was 20+ yards downfield.

Aaron snuck behind Colledge almost always. He is very good on the 2nd level, he knows what to do and is very hard to "shed" against for linebackers as he isn't some big lumbering fatty, he's very athletic and coordinated. He plants linebackers on their rear end quite often, and is probably one of the leagues best 2nd level lineman.

Daryn has occasionally been inconsistent as a pass protector and will whiff on run blocks occasionally, but he is the only GB lineman that dominates with any regularity, and he got much more consistent last year.
Agree completely, especially with Lurker on the strength issue. Colledge also single blocked Pat Williams into the endzone for a short yardage TD in the Lambeau game. I nearly fell off the couch while watching the replay.

I think Colledge will come completely into his own this year. He won't get any attention for Pro Bowl, but I expect his level of play to be close to that.

I recall that play...my buddy is a college hater and he had to rewind 3 times before he believed me when I told him yes, its pat, and yes it college pushing him like a bitch.

[LEWCWA]

Nice and accurate assessment of the o-line. Finally the o-line may have the correct athletes to run the zbs scheme properly.

The talent and depth could be a strength for a number of years. Much has been written about Colledge. Without a doubt the dude has improved upper body strength. However Colledge does not play with a nasty streak like Wahle and Barbre. If Colledege played with a nastier attitude he could become one of the better guards in the NFC.

This Colledege money year -- expect a solid season and a huge payday.I agree with this. But the big key will be Mike McCarthy. He needs to settle on who his 5 guys are gonna be and stick with it. Constantly shuffling the deck like he did last year prevents the cohesion and chemistry that is needed to make a good line.


See CPK you can post without being an ass!

[Fritz]

[quote=rbaloha]Nice and accurate assessment of the o-line. Finally the o-line may have the correct athletes to run the zbs scheme properly.

The talent and depth could be a strength for a number of years. Much has been written about Colledge. Without a doubt the dude has improved upper body strength. However Colledge does not play with a nasty streak like Wahle and Barbre. If Colledege played with a nastier attitude he could become one of the better guards in the NFC.

This Colledege money year -- expect a solid season and a huge payday.I agree with this. But the big key will be Mike McCarthy. He needs to settle on who his 5 guys are gonna be and stick with it. Constantly shuffling the deck like he did last year prevents the cohesion and chemistry that is needed to make a good line.

I think the Packers agree with the first part - "expect a solid season" - and are trying to mitigate the second part (the big pay day) by re-signing him now.