Crosby displeased with 2008 performance

[Brando19]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090711/PKR07/307110062/1058/PKR01

Pretty good article on Crosby. I think he could be a top 2 or 3 kicker in the league...but he had some crucial misses last year. Look for 2009-10 to be a Pro Bowl year for Mason.

[pbmax]

For now, I am just happy he isn't the spokesman for the team like Longwell became. Also, that he isn't in the paper everytime there is a shift in the predominant winds that might affect his kicking.

But he won't get a grace period this year on late game kicks for the lead. I also hope the Packer's learn something from the Jon Ryan episode and embrace the concept of a kicking coach. Either outside or inside the org. One of the dumbest stories last year was the displeasure felt by Stock that Ryan might be considering hiring outside help.

[Packnut]

For now, I am just happy he isn't the spokesman for the team like Longwell became. Also, that he isn't in the paper everytime there is a shift in the predominant winds that might affect his kicking.

But he won't get a grace period this year on late game kicks for the lead. I also hope the Packer's learn something from the Jon Ryan episode and embrace the concept of a kicking coach. Either outside or inside the org. One of the dumbest stories last year was the displeasure felt by Stock that Ryan might be considering hiring outside help.

I'd rather have a guy who makes kicks, Don't really give a damn about the other stuff. Facts are facts and Longwell made em when they counted, something our young kicker had better learn.......

[Administrator]

First step to fixing a problem is admitting that there is one. Longwell never got that far. Crosby is growing. That'll be a good thing, I think. I know I want him as my fantasy kicker!

[cpk1994]

For now, I am just happy he isn't the spokesman for the team like Longwell became. Also, that he isn't in the paper everytime there is a shift in the predominant winds that might affect his kicking.

But he won't get a grace period this year on late game kicks for the lead. I also hope the Packer's learn something from the Jon Ryan episode and embrace the concept of a kicking coach. Either outside or inside the org. One of the dumbest stories last year was the displeasure felt by Stock that Ryan might be considering hiring outside help.I don't think Crosby needs a kicking coach. Remember also that the two times he had a chance to win the game, on e was a 50+ yard FG and the other was blocked. The former could be blamed on McCarthy sitting on the ball in that range and the latter could be credited to good play by the Bears special teams. I will give him a littel slack for those. MOre than I would for hooking 20 yarders anyway.

[cpk1994]

First step to fixing a problem is admitting that there is one. Longwell never got that far. Crosby is growing. That'll be a good thing, I think. I know I want him as my fantasy kicker!I have had him on my fantasy team every year he has been in the league. He has been very good to me.

[mraynrand]

Remember also that the two times he had a chance to win the game, on e was a 50+ yard FG and the other was blocked. The former could be blamed on McCarthy sitting on the ball in that range

shouldn't miss in the dome. Crosby really destroyed an outstanding effort by the D. Damn I hate when the Pack loses to the Vikings...

[Rastak]

Remember also that the two times he had a chance to win the game, on e was a 50+ yard FG and the other was blocked. The former could be blamed on McCarthy sitting on the ball in that range

shouldn't miss in the dome. Crosby really destroyed an outstanding effort by the D. Damn I hate when the Pack loses to the Vikings...


The only reason that even was an option for the Packers was due to a special teams fuckup to allow Blackman to score. The Vikings dominated that game.

[pbmax]

For now, I am just happy he isn't the spokesman for the team like Longwell became. Also, that he isn't in the paper everytime there is a shift in the predominant winds that might affect his kicking.

But he won't get a grace period this year on late game kicks for the lead. I also hope the Packer's learn something from the Jon Ryan episode and embrace the concept of a kicking coach. Either outside or inside the org. One of the dumbest stories last year was the displeasure felt by Stock that Ryan might be considering hiring outside help.

I'd rather have a guy who makes kicks, Don't really give a damn about the other stuff. Facts are facts and Longwell made em when they counted, something our young kicker had better learn.......
Longwell had two years below the FG average Crosby has had in his first two seasons. No one makes them all, not even Applebee's most reluctant customer. Longwell went several seasons without a game winning kick, it was the one flaw in his resume that Wolf repeatedly called out. As cpk notes, much depends on his teammates and the coaches decision about where and when to kick.

But as I said, year three is here and if his numbers don't tick upward, then his spot will be available. I don't expect Crosby to hit all the 50 yarders, but one of two would have been appreciated.

[pbmax]

Remember also that the two times he had a chance to win the game, on e was a 50+ yard FG and the other was blocked. The former could be blamed on McCarthy sitting on the ball in that range

shouldn't miss in the dome. Crosby really destroyed an outstanding effort by the D. Damn I hate when the Pack loses to the Vikings...


The only reason that even was an option for the Packers was due to a special teams fuckup to allow Blackman to score. The Vikings dominated that game.
Except on Special Teams apparently! :lol:

[mraynrand]

Remember also that the two times he had a chance to win the game, on e was a 50+ yard FG and the other was blocked. The former could be blamed on McCarthy sitting on the ball in that range

shouldn't miss in the dome. Crosby really destroyed an outstanding effort by the D. Damn I hate when the Pack loses to the Vikings...


The only reason that even was an option for the Packers was due to a special teams fuckup to allow Blackman to score. The Vikings dominated that game.

Yes they did - specifically their D against the Packer O. That doesn't negate the great effort by the Packer D - and a special teams play. I don't understand what your point has to do with Crosby missing a game-winning field goal.

[Patler]

Mason Crosby's first NFL attempt was good from 53 yards. He kicked a game winning FG with 0:06 remaining in his first game. It was a 42 yard FG for the win. He also had a 37 yarder to tie the game. As PBMax mentioned, Longwell went several seasons before he hit a game winning kick. He also missed some game winners.

Early in his career, the Packers rarely tried field goals of 50+ yards with Longwell. A lot of teams don't try a lot of them even now. The Packers run Crosby out there at every opportunity. In two years he has 11 attempts of 50+. It took Longwell 5 years as a Packer to attempt that many from 50+. Longwell seemingly has gotten better with age, and stronger. Last year he was 6 for 6. Of course, the dome helps.

Besides, if they had not attempted the 64 or 65 yard free kick FG, Crosby would have been 31/38 for 81.6%. He would have been above the magic "80%" level, and no one would be concerned. Crosby is one of only a few who would have enough leg to even attempt that kick.

Remember too that Crosby went into the 2008 season with a new holder and a new snapper than those he had in 2007. He had no opportunity to work with his holder in preseason, since Frost was brought in so late. He had a FG blocked in the first game of the year, with a new holder he knew for a week, and a snapper playing his first NFL game. Then, a little over half way through the season, his holder changed again. Yet, Crosby never even mentions these things (unlike a former GB kicker!)

[mraynrand]

TT should have brought in a high profile FA long snapper and holder.

[oregonpackfan]

Scroll down further to the percentages by the kickers during the Vince Lombardi era.

It was interesting to see the percentages of Paul Hornung and Jerry Kramer were far lower than Crosby's. For football teams of that era most of the kickers were players who played other positions.

Coaches seemed to place marginal importance on the value of kickers in those days.

[Fritz]

Oregon, I was thinking the exact same thing. In fact, if you look at the percentages over the years, they have gone up, gradually, over the years. The field goal has become a higher-percentage weapon over the years.

If you were a coach thirty-five years ago and had a fourth-and-two from the opponent's 30 yard line, my guess is that you'd be as likely to go for it as you would try a field goal, depending on the game situation.

[rbaloha1]

Crosby has a nice stroke and powerful leg. Surprised by Crosby's misses in crunch time. Expect Crosby to have a monster year and a Jason Elam type career.

[bobblehead]

Remember also that the two times he had a chance to win the game, on e was a 50+ yard FG and the other was blocked. The former could be blamed on McCarthy sitting on the ball in that range

shouldn't miss in the dome. Crosby really destroyed an outstanding effort by the D. Damn I hate when the Pack loses to the Vikings...


The only reason that even was an option for the Packers was due to a special teams fuckup to allow Blackman to score. The Vikings dominated that game.

I seem to recall it differently. The way I remember it a ref read Arods mind and gave the vikes 2 pts. Another ref made a phantom holding call on college that even aikeman said never should have been called. And finally our kicker missed a 51 yarder off turf indoors on a perfect hold. Yea, you dominated.

[bobblehead]

For now, I am just happy he isn't the spokesman for the team like Longwell became. Also, that he isn't in the paper everytime there is a shift in the predominant winds that might affect his kicking.

But he won't get a grace period this year on late game kicks for the lead. I also hope the Packer's learn something from the Jon Ryan episode and embrace the concept of a kicking coach. Either outside or inside the org. One of the dumbest stories last year was the displeasure felt by Stock that Ryan might be considering hiring outside help.

I'd rather have a guy who makes kicks, Don't really give a damn about the other stuff. Facts are facts and Longwell made em when they counted, something our young kicker had better learn.......

Packnut...as usual your hatred for TT clouds your vision. Go back and check the first game winning attempt that longwell had. Something like 30 yards against the eagles in a 10-9 game if I recall and like a second on the clock. SHANK!!!! Yea, I know, a fan yelled noonan, the sun was in his eyes, and a reciever ran a wrong route....couldn't be longwells fault.

I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. I'm sure you were as consistent as the night is long.

2 seasons ago Crosby made them in the clutch (I know, he was inspired by Favre). Last year he didn't (Lack of leadership by Rodgers). One thing I do agree on, if he misses game winners this year he will be out of a job soon.

[mraynrand]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.

[pbmax]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.
Brett Conway can still kick in this league. But you need a note from his Doctor for a weekend pass to leave the facility.

[hoosier]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.

Jacke wasn't cut. His contract expired and he signed with Pittsburgh as a FA.

[ThunderDan]

Oregon, I was thinking the exact same thing. In fact, if you look at the percentages over the years, they have gone up, gradually, over the years. The field goal has become a higher-percentage weapon over the years.

If you were a coach thirty-five years ago and had a fourth-and-two from the opponent's 30 yard line, my guess is that you'd be as likely to go for it as you would try a field goal, depending on the game situation.

I think it has to do with the change in kicking style. Back in the day a majority of kickers ran straight on to the ball and used the front of thier foot to kick. Now every kicker uses the soccer style.

Kind of like the Fosberry(?) flop in high jumping quickly raised the high jump heights.

[woodbuck27]

For now, I am just happy he isn't the spokesman for the team like Longwell became. Also, that he isn't in the paper everytime there is a shift in the predominant winds that might affect his kicking.

But he won't get a grace period this year on late game kicks for the lead. I also hope the Packer's learn something from the Jon Ryan episode and embrace the concept of a kicking coach. Either outside or inside the org. One of the dumbest stories last year was the displeasure felt by Stock that Ryan might be considering hiring outside help.

I'd rather have a guy who makes kicks, Don't really give a damn about the other stuff. Facts are facts and Longwell made em when they counted, something our young kicker had better learn.......

Ryan Longwell is still making a good show of his kicking in Minnesota in case anyone hasn't checked out his performance lately. He's back to form.

[Patler]

Ryan Longwell is still making a good show of his kicking in Minnesota in case anyone hasn't checked out his performance lately. He's back to form.

Longwell is ideal for an indoor field. He gets good distance on FGs, but lacks "power". He kicks long floaters. That means his distance drops dramatically in cold weather and harsh elements. It's why he routinely declined 40-45 yarders in bad weather.

He could enjoy a long career in Minnesota, and will do well.

[bobblehead]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.

Jacke wasn't cut. His contract expired and he signed with Pittsburgh as a FA.

My bad...thought there was something about messing with Holmgrens daughter and he was cut. Either way it applies very similarly to TT letting Longwell walk and using a rookie.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.
Brett Conway can still kick in this league. But you need a note from his Doctor for a weekend pass to leave the facility.

What are you talking about?

BTW, anyone comparing Conway career to Sherman's miss is ridiculous.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.

Jacke wasn't cut. His contract expired and he signed with Pittsburgh as a FA.

My bad...thought there was something about messing with Holmgrens daughter and he was cut. Either way it applies very similarly to TT letting Longwell walk and using a rookie.

Yeah, you are right about certain details but wrong on the execution.

Jacke was most definitely not resigned. My god, why would you want to keep him. :roll:

[pbmax]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.
Brett Conway can still kick in this league. But you need a note from his Doctor for a weekend pass to leave the facility.

What are you talking about?

BTW, anyone comparing Conway career to Sherman's miss is ridiculous.
The joke was that he's in the loony bin (that is the current acceptable term for mental health facilities, correct?) after multiple opportunities and failures despite a serious amount of talent. But if I have to explain it, its just not that funny I suppose.

Please someone supply the sad trombone link.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.
Brett Conway can still kick in this league. But you need a note from his Doctor for a weekend pass to leave the facility.

What are you talking about?

BTW, anyone comparing Conway career to Sherman's miss is ridiculous.
The joke was that he's in the loony bin (that is the current acceptable term for mental health facilities, correct?) after multiple opportunities and failures despite a serious amount of talent. But if I have to explain it, its just not that funny I suppose.

Please someone supply the sad trombone link.

PB,

I got the reference, but thought you might have some details or a link. Ty had never heard this before. Or, are you just making a complete joke..he wasn't in the a facility?

Last Ty had heard...he was in the CFL.

[pbmax]

PB,

I got the reference, but thought you might have some details or a link. Ty had never heard this before. Or, are you just making a complete joke..he wasn't in the a facility?

Last Ty had heard...he was in the CFL.
Complete joke. And I suppose if it takes two explanations to be clear, that qualifies for an Epic Fail. :shock:

[SnakeLH2006]

Crosby has a nice stroke and powerful leg. Surprised by Crosby's misses in crunch time. Expect Crosby to have a monster year and a Jason Elam type career.

Was gonna post the same thing. Crosby has a good work ethic and major power. Those are 2 things you can't coach. Crosby is fine....Just hope he likes Applebee's?.. :shock:

[Scott Campbell]

He's the surest tackler I've ever seen at that position. He's got a huge leg. And he made some great kicks his first year. I hope last years struggles were a fluke, because he sure looks the part of a All Pro.

[mraynrand]

[
I wonder if you hated Ron Wolf when he cut a very reliable veteran kicker, drafted his replacement in the third round and then cut him for a street free agent named Longwell. .

That's crazy. Ron Wolf was a great GM - he'd never blow a third-rounder on a kicker. That's bush league stuff.
Brett Conway can still kick in this league. But you need a note from his Doctor for a weekend pass to leave the facility.


Just put me in the game, coach!

http://blogs.eveningsun.com/sportingword/jim%20carrey%20pet%20detective.jpg

[Fritz]

Ryan Longwell is still making a good show of his kicking in Minnesota in case anyone hasn't checked out his performance lately. He's back to form.

Longwell is ideal for an indoor field. He gets good distance on FGs, but lacks "power". He kicks long floaters. That means his distance drops dramatically in cold weather and harsh elements. It's why he routinely declined 40-45 yarders in bad weather.

He could enjoy a long career in Minnesota, and will do well.

This phrase got me thinking about yet another way kickers are "different" than other players. How many players get asked by the coach if they think they can make a certain play, and decline the opportunity.

Interesting.

MM: "Hey, Grant, do you think you can make this third-and-three?"

Grant: "Nah, coach, with that d-line of theirs I think I can probably only get two yards. Better skip it."

I never really thought about this before, but kickers do get asked if they can convert certain kicks - which would add to the pressure, I think. On the one hand, you don't want to tell the coach you're incapable. On the other hand, you don't want to tell the coach you can make that 53 yarder, and have it fall eight yards short.

Weird.

[Scott Campbell]

Ryan Longwell is still making a good show of his kicking in Minnesota in case anyone hasn't checked out his performance lately. He's back to form.

Longwell is ideal for an indoor field. He gets good distance on FGs, but lacks "power". He kicks long floaters. That means his distance drops dramatically in cold weather and harsh elements. It's why he routinely declined 40-45 yarders in bad weather.

He could enjoy a long career in Minnesota, and will do well.

This phrase got me thinking about yet another way kickers are "different" than other players. How many players get asked by the coach if they think they can make a certain play, and decline the opportunity.

Interesting.

MM: "Hey, Grant, do you think you can make this third-and-three?"

Grant: "Nah, coach, with that d-line of theirs I think I can probably only get two yards. Better skip it."

I never really thought about this before, but kickers do get asked if they can convert certain kicks - which would add to the pressure, I think. On the one hand, you don't want to tell the coach you're incapable. On the other hand, you don't want to tell the coach you can make that 53 yarder, and have it fall eight yards short.

Weird.


If they decline too many that they really shouldn't, they'll get replaced. Ideally the ST coach knows the kicker well enough to be able to speak for him.

[Fritz]

Good point, SC. I don't think a coach should put a player in that position very often. Once in a while, sure. Especially in a bad sports movie.

"Well, Guffy, I know that linebacker just broke your fibula, and I know that you're trying a comeback at the age of 44 after a heart transplant and after losing both eyes trying to save a little girl from a raging tiger - and I'm sorry she died, by the way - and I know you just found out your baby sister has cancer, but do ya think you can get us those two yards?"

[hoosier]

Ryan Longwell is still making a good show of his kicking in Minnesota in case anyone hasn't checked out his performance lately. He's back to form.

Longwell is ideal for an indoor field. He gets good distance on FGs, but lacks "power". He kicks long floaters. That means his distance drops dramatically in cold weather and harsh elements. It's why he routinely declined 40-45 yarders in bad weather.

He could enjoy a long career in Minnesota, and will do well.

This phrase got me thinking about yet another way kickers are "different" than other players. How many players get asked by the coach if they think they can make a certain play, and decline the opportunity.

Interesting.

MM: "Hey, Grant, do you think you can make this third-and-three?"

Grant: "Nah, coach, with that d-line of theirs I think I can probably only get two yards. Better skip it."

I never really thought about this before, but kickers do get asked if they can convert certain kicks - which would add to the pressure, I think. On the one hand, you don't want to tell the coach you're incapable. On the other hand, you don't want to tell the coach you can make that 53 yarder, and have it fall eight yards short.

Weird.


If they decline too many that they really shouldn't, they'll get replaced. Ideally the ST coach knows the kicker well enough to be able to speak for him.

The only thing I would add to this is that the kicker himself presumably has a better sense for how field and weather conditions are likely to affect the kick. Plently of times we saw Holmgren pass up a chance to try a field goal when the Packers were just within normal field range (say, in between the opponent's 25 and 35). Presumably he wasn't just going his own gut feeling about Longwell's true range. If Longwell had been hitting from from 45+ in pregame warmups he would say so and the FG attempt would be made. If not, punt or try for the first down.

[CaptainKickass]

My gut feeling is that there isn't really any kicker with more future "upside" than Mason. Even if they brought in some rookie/FA for competition I get the feeling it would be just for show. The only way Crosby gets replaced is by an established veteran kicker with the word "clutch" closely associated with his name.

We know that outside of an attempt at landing Vinatieri - that TT doesn't really play that way. Crosby is safe, coaches are confident in him, and I think he's actually more of a well rounded football player than most kickers, based on the aforementioned tackling ability we've seen.

I wonder if he can throw? Might make for a nice surprise deception play on special teams.

[Fritz]

That'd be fun, once in a while. Especially if it's a doable kick - make it more surprising when Johnson or Hall or whoever floats out of the backfield for a pass from the Mason-meister.

[hoosier]

The Packers already missed their chance at gimmick fame: running the wildcat with Jon Ryan.

[Merlin]

I have to give our recent Kickers and well, at least 1 previous punter credit, they aren't afraid to tackle, AND they are pretty good at it. They are fast lil buggers too...