Biggest Surprise GB Player From 2008 in 2009. Who is It?

[SnakeLH2006]

We've had plenty of GB guys surprise us.

Jennings, Hall, and James Jones had good surprising rook seasons. But this isn't just rookies....This poll is about holdovers (not rookies).

Jolly was delightful pre-codeine.

T. WIlliams was/is a beast at ST and as a CB replacement....etc. But again. What player in 2008 from the holdovers will stand out in 2009 as a guy who outperforms expectations from last year?

So who rises amongst the ranks, not as a rookie, but some other guy on the roster THIS YEAR in 2009 that just does it, whether it's as a starter but someone who makes plays maybe formerly as a "scrub" off the bench who produces in 2009 that shines?

-------------------------

Snake likes Lumpy at RB, but not sold on his injury BS, Rouse should rise...James Jones, I always liked him, but I really gotta go with BJack as in his 2 years he really looks like he's ready to shine in 09. Not a big Grant fan, but I see BJack really rising (if healthy) to get more carries/catches in the zone O at RB. BJack is my pick of the holdovers. I really like that cat for our Running scheme.

It was tough, but in Snake's mind TWill has already proven to be a very good player, so his up-commence is not as much at BJack can be. TWill is already a great player...thus I did not put him in this poll, as I think he's already a proven player for GB.

Thoughts?

==============

Note: Aww shit. I forgot Desmond Bishop as I really like that cat. I still say BJack but Bishop will be force in 2009. So state other if you like him. Sorry.

[sharpe1027]

I have to go with Finley. The dude got into games early and they went right to him. Sure he screwed up, but they came back to him later on. To me that means they really really like what he brings to the table. Look for him to become the end zone threat and get some TDs.

[Scott Campbell]

I think many people feel that Colledge is already there, in that he proved something over the last half of the 09 season. He's a legit NFL starter right now. Hopefully he can take it another level or two. Jordy is in the same boat as he played his way into the WR rotation ahead of Ruvell and didn't give up his spot up when Jones got healthy. So I wouldn't necessarily consider those two as surprises at this point.

I'd say the front runners have to be J. Thompson, Barbre and Finley, as the coaching staff seems to be intent on giving those guys a shot early this off season.

[Fritz]

I said Harrell. Wishful thinking.

[sharpe1027]

I said Harrell. Wishful thinking.

It would be a big surprise. :)

[Waldo]

Jeremy Thompson.

The only thing keeping him from being as good or better than Ware/Merriman sits behind his eyes. From the neck down he's every bit the physical specimen, heck his short area bust and arm length are better than both of theirs, and he's about the same size, bigger than Ware, but smaller than Merriman.

And he's very smart.

Somebody makes it click upstairs with him, and we've got ourselves one heck of a player.

There might not be a better man out there to find that button that needs pushing than Coach Greene.

Our last coach figured out his problem and tried to correct it. Nice guys don't do good at his position, he has to play instinctive and angry, to be a shark with blood in the water. Coach Greene finds that button, and JT could very easily be one of Teds best picks. Physically he has what it takes to be elite, and overall is one of the best athletes TT has drafted at any position in any round.

[SkinBasket]

Pat Lee. Won't be all pro this year, but will develop into a solid 3rd DB with flashes of glittering awesomeness here and there. We knew drafting him he didn't have as much experience and would take a couple years to develop and learn. By the end of the season, people won't be worried about who replaces Harris in 2010.

[Fritz]

Jeremy Thompson.

The only thing keeping him from being as good or better than Ware/Merriman sits behind his eyes. From the neck down he's every bit the physical specimen, heck his short area bust and arm length are better than both of theirs, and he's about the same size, bigger than Ware, but smaller than Merriman.

And he's very smart.

Somebody makes it click upstairs with him, and we've got ourselves one heck of a player.

There might not be a better man out there to find that button that needs pushing than Coach Greene.

Our last coach figured out his problem and tried to correct it. Nice guys don't do good at his position, he has to play instinctive and angry, to be a shark with blood in the water. Coach Greene finds that button, and JT could very easily be one of Teds best picks. Physically he has what it takes to be elite, and overall is one of the best athletes TT has drafted at any position in any round.

Don't be shy, Waldo. Tell us how you feel about Thompson.

Dang. I sure hope you're right. And you have a lot more backing for your position than I do for my position vis a vis Harrell.

Here's an interesting question: which player of the two would it be more crucial for the Packers to get a breakout season from? That is, if Harrell flops are there enough other ends on the roster that it'd be okay? Or if JT doesn't "get it," are there other linebackers who could pick up that slack?

[Scott Campbell]

Jeremy Thompson.

The only thing keeping him from being as good or better than Ware/Merriman sits behind his eyes. From the neck down he's every bit the physical specimen, heck his short area bust and arm length are better than both of theirs, and he's about the same size, bigger than Ware, but smaller than Merriman.

And he's very smart.

Somebody makes it click upstairs with him, and we've got ourselves one heck of a player.

There might not be a better man out there to find that button that needs pushing than Coach Greene.

Our last coach figured out his problem and tried to correct it. Nice guys don't do good at his position, he has to play instinctive and angry, to be a shark with blood in the water. Coach Greene finds that button, and JT could very easily be one of Teds best picks. Physically he has what it takes to be elite, and overall is one of the best athletes TT has drafted at any position in any round.

Don't be shy, Waldo. Tell us how you feel about Thompson.

Dang. I sure hope you're right.


I'm totally buying what Waldo is selling.

[Waldo]

Here's an interesting question: which player of the two would it be more crucial for the Packers to get a breakout season from? That is, if Harrell flops are there enough other ends on the roster that it'd be okay? Or if JT doesn't "get it," are there other linebackers who could pick up that slack?

It is generally agreed apon, for a 3-4 team the most important 4 players on the team are:

QB, LT, NT, WOLB

While QB surely is at the top, the order of the other 3 positions is widely debatable.

DE is one of those positions sandwiched between the really important ones. A 3-4 defense is very nice and symmetric; every function and subfunction it does can be evaluated in triangle groups (ex - Interior running, the NT, RILB, LILB triangle), all the way across the defense for everything, one of the things that makes some forms so incredibly frustrating to game plan against and so unpredictable (that is how Capers and Lebeau view the defense, guys within a triangle can substitute some tasks for each other (such as coverage) while maintaining defensive integrity, and can work as a unit to accomplish a goal (such as the DE not rushing to get the passer, but to open an unblocked lane for the OLB/ILB to get to the passer)).

When you look at the triangles that the DE's are involved in, they are always paired with an ILB, and either the NT or OLB. Strength at 2/3's of a triangle makes the triangle strong (you can stop the rush inside with a crappy NT if you have 2 outstanding ILB's). With Kamp/Hawk/Raji making up the other 2/3, even weakness there can be overcome and solid defense played (good god, we were starting Hunter at RDE last year (the most important position in a 4-3 defense), compare that to Jolly/Harrell/Monty at LDE in this defense and you have a better player in a much less important position this year).

WOLB is critical for our success. For some reason Kamp has always been content on the left (SOLB). There really is no such thing as a fearsome pass rusher off the left. Whether it is Thompson, Matthews, Poppinga, or some other unknown, IMO it is the most critical position for our success this year on D. Every good 3-4, or even decent one, has a good WOLB.

[CaptainKickass]

I voted for Blackmon. Got that kind of a superhero quality to his name:

(In your best Jamaican accent) He's Black... Hes a Mon... He's:

"Blackmon"!


Seriously - the guy has great field speed and obvious talent at redirection while on the move. This is illustrated by his punt/kick return ability. If he can apply those talents to being a corner, and if he can put it all together, I think he has as good a chance as Pat Lee to be the next potential replacement corner whenever Woodson and Harris have departed. My guess is based on his history so far - that it might take too long for him to develop as such. I'm hoping he surprises.

[Waldo]

I voted for Blackmon. Got that kind of a superhero quality to his name:

(In your best Jamaican accent) He's Black... Hes a Mon... He's:

"Blackmon"!


Seriously - the guy has great field speed and obvious talent at redirection while on the move. This is illustrated by his punt/kick return ability. If he can apply those talents to being a corner, and if he can put it all together, I think he has as good a chance as Pat Lee to be the next potential replacement corner whenever Woodson and Harris have departed. My guess is based on his history so far - that it might take too long for him to develop as such. I'm hoping he surprises.

Punts....yes, while he isn't one of the leagues elite, he is in the next tier down of very good. Kicks.....he's terrible, he isn't a very good kickoff returner at all.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Colledge is already good enough, smart enough, and dog gone it people like him.


The only guy on that list that has shown he can be outstanding is Jordy Nelson, IMO. The rest would be pleasant surprises.

[Scott Campbell]

Harlan,

Who's the girl in your av?

[Fritz]

Here's an interesting question: which player of the two would it be more crucial for the Packers to get a breakout season from? That is, if Harrell flops are there enough other ends on the roster that it'd be okay? Or if JT doesn't "get it," are there other linebackers who could pick up that slack?

It is generally agreed apon, for a 3-4 team the most important 4 players on the team are:

QB, LT, NT, WOLB

While QB surely is at the top, the order of the other 3 positions is widely debatable.

DE is one of those positions sandwiched between the really important ones. A 3-4 defense is very nice and symmetric; every function and subfunction it does can be evaluated in triangle groups (ex - Interior running, the NT, RILB, LILB triangle), all the way across the defense for everything, one of the things that makes some forms so incredibly frustrating to game plan against and so unpredictable (that is how Capers and Lebeau view the defense, guys within a triangle can substitute some tasks for each other (such as coverage) while maintaining defensive integrity, and can work as a unit to accomplish a goal (such as the DE not rushing to get the passer, but to open an unblocked lane for the OLB/ILB to get to the passer)).

When you look at the triangles that the DE's are involved in, they are always paired with an ILB, and either the NT or OLB. Strength at 2/3's of a triangle makes the triangle strong (you can stop the rush inside with a crappy NT if you have 2 outstanding ILB's). With Kamp/Hawk/Raji making up the other 2/3, even weakness there can be overcome and solid defense played (good god, we were starting Hunter at RDE last year (the most important position in a 4-3 defense), compare that to Jolly/Harrell/Monty at LDE in this defense and you have a better player in a much less important position this year).

WOLB is critical for our success. For some reason Kamp has always been content on the left (SOLB). There really is no such thing as a fearsome pass rusher off the left. Whether it is Thompson, Matthews, Poppinga, or some other unknown, IMO it is the most critical position for our success this year on D. Every good 3-4, or even decent one, has a good WOLB.

Thanks, Waldo. I learned a lot - as long as I've watched football, I've never learned as much as I have reading certain posters on this site.

You write that Thompson is a smart guy - so I'm guessing it's his aggressiveness level that will have to be taught? Maybe he's one of those laid-back sorts who needs to be a little meaner on the field? Is that what you meant in your original post as to whether Thompson will "get it"?

So go Thompson!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harlan,

Who's the girl in your av?

sort of a secret fantasy of mine.

clue: she likes to hunt from helicopters

[Scott Campbell]

Harlan,

Who's the girl in your av?

sort of a secret fantasy of mine.

clue: she likes to hunt from helicopters


:lol:

Damn - I just made a moron out of myself again.

I didn't recognize her without the glasses.

[swede]

Sarah looks a bit like Mary Ann w/o the gingham in that picture.

[hoosier]

Harlan,

Who's the girl in your av?

sort of a secret fantasy of mine.

clue: she likes to hunt from helicopters


:lol:

Damn - I just made a moron out of myself again.

I didn't recognize her without the glasses.

Or the top. Or the do.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It is a picture from highschool, evidently taken before she had the surgery to correct the single breast growing out of the base of her neck.

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/10/sarah-palin.jpg

[Freak Out]

The real golden boy.....Clay Matthews.

I also want T. Sutton to make the team as a RB/KR real bad.

[CaptainKickass]

Punts....yes, while he isn't one of the leagues elite, he is in the next tier down of very good. Kicks.....he's terrible, he isn't a very good kickoff returner at all.

Well - certainly not yet anyway. I'm hoping he can change your mind about that this season too.

.

[Waldo]

You write that Thompson is a smart guy - so I'm guessing it's his aggressiveness level that will have to be taught? Maybe he's one of those laid-back sorts who needs to be a little meaner on the field? Is that what you meant in your original post as to whether Thompson will "get it"?

So go Thompson!

All those things like good grades, that test they take at the combine, word of mouth, etc..., JT is a very smart guy. It was in every scouting report about him, plus if you have listened to interviews of him, you can tell by his speaking that he's well educated.

But yeah, he doesn't do the mean/aggressive thing. He's either going to have to become Kamp relentless (took Kamp a long time to hit his stride), or somehow find it. I like Greene's chances better than most to help him find it since not only did Greene have it, he was a player and can relate things to players.

I remember reading reports about his performance at the senior bowl. Basically the writer was saying that you could see it in him, you could see the potential, but he spent the whole time working on moves and trying to beat guys with fancy technical things to little avail, if he were to just drop that and just use his god given ability (which was apparent) to try to beat beat the guy trying to block him, chances are that he could, that he probably would have had a whole lot more success.

[SnakeLH2006]

Yeah, I guess it is feasible that Thompson may be much better in year 2. Does he have any chance to start this year, Waldo? I guess I don't see the huge strides in JT, but then again, I'm all for it. Maybe a position change could do wonders for his body type at LB.

[bobblehead]

I went with finley...boy he makes spectacular plays when he's not being stupid.

[cheesner]

Easy choice - Harrell.

All he needs to do to 'surprise' anyone is to stay healthy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I guess Finley is a good choice if you are a buy-low-sell-high kind of guy. He will get playing time if he comes around, they desperately need an upgrade at TE.

[Waldo]

Yeah, I guess it is feasible that Thompson may be much better in year 2. Does he have any chance to start this year, Waldo? I guess I don't see the huge strides in JT, but then again, I'm all for it. Maybe a position change could do wonders for his body type at LB.

Every second year player should be expected to drastically improve between their first and second years. That is always the most noticable jump, even if it takes another year or two to fully realize.

Who else would start? A rookie? Poppinga? He's been the starter now all spring with little competition.

Just like with Barbre, that gives him a huge advantage going into camp. MM has shown that most of his camp battle decisions occur early (by the week after family night) or late (after game 3/4). If Barbre/Thompson hold on to starting into the week after Family Night, I like both of their chances to start week 1.

[KYPack]

Hawk has fallen so far he doesn't make a multi-player poll?

He was really hurt last year and showed me something just getting on the field. I'll vote for AJ, out of hope more than anything.

[Waldo]

I guess Finley is a good choice if you are a buy-low-sell-high kind of guy. He will get playing time if he comes around, they desperately need an upgrade at TE.

?

Lee has led all NFL TE's now two years in a row in % of targeted passes caught. His hands are as reliable as any TE's, he doesn't drop the ball.

3 TE's have scored more TD's than Lee in the last 2 years (Gonzo, Gates, Clark), he is tied with Witten at #4. Lee is a very good RZ target, one of the primary jobs of a TE.

He's a decent blocker, much better than most "receiving TE's".

He had a very good YPC average in '07. He wasn't used much deep in '08.

His receptions and yards aren't great, then again, we have Jennings, Driver, Jones, and Nelson to thank for that more than anything.

[Zool]

Well we have "getting Patlerized" in our lexicon. I guess now we need a "you got Waldozed"

Harlan, consider yourself Waldozed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I've never been impressed with Donald Lee, he seems like just a guy to me, especially in the red zone. I'm surprised at the stats compared to other TE's, especially Greg Jones of bears, who I'm impressed with.

[sharpe1027]

I've never been impressed with Donald Lee, he seems like just a guy to me, especially in the red zone. I'm surprised at the stats compared to other TE's, especially Greg Jones of bears, who I'm impressed with.

I like Lee, he is a solid TE. Still, his TD total in the past two years doesn't tell the whole story. In that span, the Packers had only 24 rushing TDs and 58 passing TDs, Lee stayed realitively healthy and the Packers lacked a viable #2 option at TE.

[cheesner]

Hawk has fallen so far he doesn't make a multi-player poll?

He was really hurt last year and showed me something just getting on the field. I'll vote for AJ, out of hope more than anything.
If Hawk does well, I don't think many will be surprised. He has already set a pretty high bar for himself. Last year was poor - due to injury. If he returns to health and is playing now in a role where he will have an opportunity to make plays - I expect his impact to be more obvious.

[The Shadow]

I've never been impressed with Donald Lee, he seems like just a guy to me, especially in the red zone. I'm surprised at the stats compared to other TE's, especially Greg Jones of bears, who I'm impressed with.

Greg JONES?

[Scott Campbell]

Well we have "getting Patlerized" in our lexicon. I guess now we need a "you got Waldozed"

Harlan, consider yourself Waldozed.


I think Harlan just got Shadow Boxed too.

[Harlan Huckleby]

olson, jones. what's in a name?

[Scott Campbell]

olson, jones. what's in a name?



Good point Harold.

[DonHutson]

I think Blackmon and Colledge already are what they're going to be.

Finley and Thompson have the strongest confluence of talent and opportunity of the players listed. I'll vote for Finley because he has less competition at his position than Thompson has at his. The #2 job and a fair amount of playing time are his for the taking. While Thompson is intriguing, he still has to hold off Clay Matthews.

If Colledge and Barbre are on the list, then where is Josh Sitton? I'd probably take him over anyone.

[CaptainKickass]

After some additional thought, I'd also like to put Rouse on the list of "potential" surprise breakout players. Of course I don't think that's gonna happen unless Collins stages a holdout. But still.

The dude has a knack, yeah he peeks and jumps early at times, but I think this year, and this new "Capers" 3-4 system will be good for him.

[Fritz]

olson, jones. what's in a name?

Olson Jones. Isn't he the Bears' tight end?

[The Leaper]

Finley.

I'd take a a stab at B Jackson...but behind our OL, I don't expect any RB to "surprise" pleasantly. At least Finley will have a very good QB tossing him the ball...and we will be throwing a lot again in 2009.

[SnakeLH2006]

So far the votes tally J. Finley in a landslide (23%) and Jordy right after him. I remember seeing the scouting report on Finley (and his Youtube vids) and have always been impressed with his athleticism as Lee is pretty good at TE, but Finley could be a beast if the lights turn on.

Jordy...I was pretty impressed with him as a person, player, and athlete, but wasn't too impressed with him last year. James Jones, Jennings, and the dude with the broken neck outta Texas AM (forget his name) looked better as rooks, but would like to see him step up too.

What happened to the Desmond Bishop bandwagon? I still think that dude can be a player, as he played well in limited opps last year and tears it up preseason? I like the Bishop too.

[Bretsky]

Barbre is a possibility

Should be very interesting to see if Finley has matured

[woodbuck27]

I voted for Blackmon. Got that kind of a superhero quality to his name:

(In your best Jamaican accent) He's Black... Hes a Mon... He's:

"Blackmon"!


Seriously - the guy has great field speed and obvious talent at redirection while on the move. This is illustrated by his punt/kick return ability. If he can apply those talents to being a corner, and if he can put it all together, I think he has as good a chance as Pat Lee to be the next potential replacement corner whenever Woodson and Harris have departed. My guess is based on his history so far - that it might take too long for him to develop as such. I'm hoping he surprises.

I always loved Blackmon's skills. He has had bad luck.