Sitton expected to start at RG

[packrulz]

Hopefully this year he can stay healthy, they seem to really like him.
http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#579608

[Harlan Huckleby]

good news. But we must not get complacent, there's still work to do. I will not rest until Jason Spitz is starting at center.

[Spaulding]

good news. But we must not get complacent, there's still work to do. I will not rest until Jason Spitz is starting at center.

Well, this would look to suggest that Spitz will indeed then be the starting center. Unless Colledge is moved to RT and LG opens up.

Now that they are no longer playing musical chairs on the line, things are looking good with Clifton, College, Spitz, Sitton and hopefully Barbre (or possibly Lang as a sleeper).

[Waldo]

:roll:

So our OL's "problem" was the fact that our backup C was also the RG, he played C for 4 games, and the LG got moved to RT for half a game because of the underperformance of the RT backup?

I love how crazy strong fans have latched on to this issue. MM has mentioned a few things, the papers have run with stories, fans now have this diehard belief that "musical chairs", always using those exact words, was our problem with our OL, which in reality was pretty good, and the worst parts performance wise never switched positions.

Just like blitzing too much, too many DC's, not enough blitzing, not a big enough OL.....

People are living in some crazy fantasy land if they think that our backup LT will be anybody but Colledge. Any team would be idiotic to sit their backup LT on the bench, as typically the backup LT is the 2nd best lineman on the team.

Not sure why this is news that Sitton will be starting. He won the job in camp last year, but MM didn't want to change lineup midseason once he returned (though he should have, Sitton was not our 6th best lineman, and could in fact already be #3, and was probably #4 last year, he's the only Packer lineman on our roster I've seen dominate a defensive tackle (though Colledge does a good job and is a dominant 2nd level lineman)). Sitton has been totally unchallenged in spring and is not anticipated to even be pushed for his spot in camp, Spitz has already lost the battle and has been moved to C.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Spitz has already lost the battle and has been moved to C.

Was he moved because he is worse than Sitton or because he is better than Wells? That's speculation, but I would guess the latter.

[Spaulding]

:roll:

So our OL's "problem" was the fact that our backup C was also the RG, he played C for 4 games, and the LG got moved to RT for half a game because of the underperformance of the RT backup?

I love how crazy strong fans have latched on to this issue. MM has mentioned a few things, the papers have run with stories, fans now have this diehard belief that "musical chairs", always using those exact words, was our problem with our OL, which in reality was pretty good, and the worst parts performance wise never switched positions.

Just like blitzing too much, too many DC's, not enough blitzing, not a big enough OL.....

People are living in some crazy fantasy land if they think that our backup LT will be anybody but Colledge. Any team would be idiotic to sit their backup LT on the bench, as typically the backup LT is the 2nd best lineman on the team.

Not sure why this is news that Sitton will be starting. He won the job in camp last year, but MM didn't want to change lineup midseason once he returned (though he should have, Sitton was not our 6th best lineman, and could in fact already be #3, and was probably #4 last year, he's the only Packer lineman on our roster I've seen dominate a defensive tackle (though Colledge does a good job and is a dominant 2nd level lineman)). Sitton has been totally unchallenged in spring and is not anticipated to even be pushed for his spot in camp, Spitz has already lost the battle and has been moved to C.

Waldo, the reference on the musical chairs was intended for last years training camp in which I believe they were still trying to figure out what the best lineup was rather than slotting a player and giving them continual reps in that position to better speed their development/comfort with a specific position.

As for the regular season, agree in that the continuity was very good and only changes were due to injuries or short stint where Moll bombed.

[sharpe1027]

:roll:

So our OL's "problem" was the fact that our backup C was also the RG, he played C for 4 games, and the LG got moved to RT for half a game because of the underperformance of the RT backup?

I love how crazy strong fans have latched on to this issue. MM has mentioned a few things, the papers have run with stories, fans now have this diehard belief that "musical chairs", always using those exact words, was our problem with our OL, which in reality was pretty good, and the worst parts performance wise never switched positions.

Just like blitzing too much, too many DC's, not enough blitzing, not a big enough OL.....

People are living in some crazy fantasy land if they think that our backup LT will be anybody but Colledge. Any team would be idiotic to sit their backup LT on the bench, as typically the backup LT is the 2nd best lineman on the team.

Not sure why this is news that Sitton will be starting. He won the job in camp last year, but MM didn't want to change lineup midseason once he returned (though he should have, Sitton was not our 6th best lineman, and could in fact already be #3, and was probably #4 last year, he's the only Packer lineman on our roster I've seen dominate a defensive tackle (though Colledge does a good job and is a dominant 2nd level lineman)). Sitton has been totally unchallenged in spring and is not anticipated to even be pushed for his spot in camp, Spitz has already lost the battle and has been moved to C.

Waldo's fired up this morning! :P

Overblown, maybe, but it is tough to really know how important people think it is from one-line posts. I did not read that post as saying that it was "the" problem. Plus, there isn't much else to talk about right now. :lol:

I think most people, including MM, agree that it was a factor in the performance. They moved guys around throughout preseason and injuries sometimes meant that three guys moved positions in the middle of a games in the regular season. They handled it pretty well, but I doubt anyone would consider it a helpful factor.

[retailguy]

Spitz has already lost the battle and has been moved to C.

Was he moved because he is worse than Sitton or because he is better than Wells? That's speculation, but I would guess the latter.

I agree with you. It is definitely the latter. I know there are a bunch in here who believe our line is just fine, based on something I apparently missed at the end of last season. I don't remember any dramatic improvment as the season went on. They were adequate at times, but never "good". Rodgers was forced out of the pocket way too often, and there were far too many breakdowns at crucial times.

I've never been a fan of this line, and last year, thought the slippage in performance of Clifton and Tauscher was more a reflection on their linemates than themselves.

I've always believed Colledge is miscast as a guard, and didn't really love him as a left tackle either, and, whilst I agree that Spitz is a better center than a guard, I don't think he's that great as a center either.

I'm still not impressed with our line, maybe the young guys will be better, (other than Moll), we'll see.

[CaptainKickass]

good news. But we must not get complacent, there's still work to do. I will not rest until Jason Spitz is starting at center.

Well, this would look to suggest that Spitz will indeed then be the starting center. Unless Colledge is moved to RT and LG opens up.

Now that they are no longer playing musical chairs on the line, things are looking good with Clifton, College, Spitz, Sitton and hopefully Barbre (or possibly Lang as a sleeper).


I don't recall seeing anything that had indicated that Wells has lost out for the starting gig. It seems like there's not a huge amount of support for Wells on this board, and I recall reading some of you opining that Wells may be cut, but isn't it still his job to loose?


.

[Waldo]

Here's the thing. OL play is often viewed as this constant, aside from "bad" runs, sacks, and penalties. That is untrue and totally not the case.

Colledge - Hit or miss pass blocker, usually pretty good though. Doesn't struggle with any particular type, though long ones at end theoretically should give him trouble. Penalty prone. Good run blocking technician on the line, knows how to use his body to his advantage, I've seen him seal off good NT's himself, and he typically at least gets a little push. Dominant 2nd level blocker. When he gets to the linebackers, he often plants them on their asses and rarely do they get off his blocks. He is elite at that. No amount of "block shedding" ability in a LB helps them when DC is coming their way.

Wells - Can't really try harder. I don't know how he ever made it into the NFL, but he's a great technician. He's a very low error player, problem is he's just not big, strong, or athletic enough to ever dominate at the NFL level, and dominant defensive lineman can beat him.

Clifton - Clifton has been a great player moving sideways or backwards (pass blocking). Moving forwards (run blocking), he's always stunk. There is no player type that has ever given him trouble regularly, though last year he started to show signs of struggling with speed. He's slowing down all around, his already bad run blocking was taken to all new lows last year. He's always been a moderately penalized player.

Spitz - Not the technician Wells is (yet), but he's big enough and strong enough that dominant guys won't beat him unless he makes a mistake. He doesn't get penalized very much. Pretty good team blocker, not much at the 2nd level. He can move smaller/weaker defensive lineman by himself, though he doesn't always get the small amount of push that Colledge gets.

Sitton - Not that great at pass blocking, quick learner though. Beaten by trickery as a rookie (stunts, etc). Haven't seen enough to evaluate his penalty proneness. Very good run blocker, can dominate DT's by himself; in the little bit he played, he did things to defensive lineman I haven't seen out of a GB OG since Rivera ("blown off the ball", "planted on their ass" are appropriate phrases), has the athleticism, but not awareness right now to dominate at the 2nd level. If those were not freak occurances, we got a really good one in Josh.

Our biggest problem last year is we never had a string of 3 good run blockers on one side of the line (C-T), there always was at least 1 weak link on each side all year long. Aside from two big instances that I can think of:

Vs. Tn (wk 9) - Colledge-Spitz-Wells-Sitton-Tausher was the lineup. Colledge to Sitton is a solid run blocking group with Wells as the weakness, the best we fielded (aside from a drive here and there) until week 17. Grant ran 20 times for 86 yards (4.3 avg) with a long of 14, Tennessee was the leagues #6 ranked run D in 2008. Our OL held up well to their DL.

Vs. Det (wk 17) - Clifton-Barbre-Spitz-Sitton-Colledge was the lineup half the game. We ran through their defense like they weren't even fielding one when that was the lineup.

I'm excited for the line of Clifton-Colledge-Spitz-Sitton-Barbre (assuming it happens). It might not be the best pass blocking line we've fielded, but this group should be able to plow through defenses on the ground, and definitely will be the best group we've fielded since the good Sherman years in that regard. If Colledge fills in for Clifton and Lang for Colledge, we should be able to move the ball on the ground with ease.

[sharpe1027]

I'm excited for the line of Clifton-Colledge-Spitz-Sitton-Barbre (assuming it happens). It might not be the best pass blocking line we've fielded, but this group should be able to plow through defenses on the ground, and definitely will be the best group we've fielded since the good Sherman years in that regard. If Colledge fills in for Clifton and Lang for Colledge, we should be able to move the ball on the ground with ease.

Couldn't agree more. I would happily give up a little in pass protection in exhange for a solid running game. Plus, what better way to slow down the pass rush than running the ball down the defense's throat?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wells - Can't really try harder. I don't know how he ever made it into the NFL, but he's a great technician. He's a very low error player, problem is he's just not big, strong, or athletic enough to ever dominate at the NFL level, and dominant defensive lineman can beat him.

you can always tell a player is a little shakey when people remind you of the sports they used to play. Wells was a champion wrestler in college. Craig Nall has the Louisiana high school record for Javelin throw previously held by Terry Bradshaw. Mike Hawkins was a swimmer on the 2004 olympic team.

[Fritz]

Wells - Can't really try harder. I don't know how he ever made it into the NFL, but he's a great technician. He's a very low error player, problem is he's just not big, strong, or athletic enough to ever dominate at the NFL level, and dominant defensive lineman can beat him.

you can always tell a player is a little shakey when people remind you of the sports they used to play. Wells was a champion wrestler in college. Craig Nall has the Louisiana high school record for Javelin throw previously held by Terry Bradshaw. Mike Hawkins was a swimmer on the 2004 olympic team.

Yes, until Driver proved himself every GB sports article mentioned Driver's track or high jumping abilities.

[Waldo]

Wells - Can't really try harder. I don't know how he ever made it into the NFL, but he's a great technician. He's a very low error player, problem is he's just not big, strong, or athletic enough to ever dominate at the NFL level, and dominant defensive lineman can beat him.

you can always tell a player is a little shakey when people remind you of the sports they used to play. Wells was a champion wrestler in college. Craig Nall has the Louisiana high school record for Javelin throw previously held by Terry Bradshaw. Mike Hawkins was a swimmer on the 2004 olympic team.

Yes, until Driver proved himself every GB sports article mentioned Driver's track or high jumping abilities.

For how much that was made into a big hoopla years back, have you ever seen Driver make a spectacular leaping sideline catch?

The guy can jump, but he has zero control when doing it. For a few years our whole team was devoid of any toe tappers, though I think that Nelson is a little bit of one. Walker was great at it.

[wist43]

Spitz has already lost the battle and has been moved to C.

Was he moved because he is worse than Sitton or because he is better than Wells?

Yes :)

[The Leaper]

Our OL is a weak point...and will be regardless of who is starting where.

[CaptainKickass]

good news. But we must not get complacent, there's still work to do. I will not rest until Jason Spitz is starting at center.

Well, this would look to suggest that Spitz will indeed then be the starting center. Unless Colledge is moved to RT and LG opens up.

Now that they are no longer playing musical chairs on the line, things are looking good with Clifton, College, Spitz, Sitton and hopefully Barbre (or possibly Lang as a sleeper).


I don't recall seeing anything that had indicated that Wells has lost out for the starting gig. It seems like there's not a huge amount of support for Wells on this board, and I recall reading some of you opining that Wells may be cut, but isn't it still his job to loose?


.

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?




Bueller?


.

[Scott Campbell]

good news. But we must not get complacent, there's still work to do. I will not rest until Jason Spitz is starting at center.

Well, this would look to suggest that Spitz will indeed then be the starting center. Unless Colledge is moved to RT and LG opens up.

Now that they are no longer playing musical chairs on the line, things are looking good with Clifton, College, Spitz, Sitton and hopefully Barbre (or possibly Lang as a sleeper).


I don't recall seeing anything that had indicated that Wells has lost out for the starting gig. It seems like there's not a huge amount of support for Wells on this board, and I recall reading some of you opining that Wells may be cut, but isn't it still his job to loose?


.

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?




Bueller?


.


From my recollection, Wells is smallish with short arms and a marginally adequate starter. The staff would really like somebody to step up and beat him out. Backup OL need to play more than 1 position. He can't play any other positions, so if he doesn't win the starting spot, he's likely to be gone.

[CaptainKickass]

good news. But we must not get complacent, there's still work to do. I will not rest until Jason Spitz is starting at center.

Well, this would look to suggest that Spitz will indeed then be the starting center. Unless Colledge is moved to RT and LG opens up.

Now that they are no longer playing musical chairs on the line, things are looking good with Clifton, College, Spitz, Sitton and hopefully Barbre (or possibly Lang as a sleeper).


I don't recall seeing anything that had indicated that Wells has lost out for the starting gig. It seems like there's not a huge amount of support for Wells on this board, and I recall reading some of you opining that Wells may be cut, but isn't it still his job to loose?


.

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?




Bueller?


.


From my recollection, Wells is smallish with short arms and a marginally adequate starter. The staff would really like somebody to step up and beat him out. Backup OL need to play more than 1 position. He can't play any other positions, so if he doesn't win the starting spot, he's likely to be gone.


Wells was the starting center last season - yes? Traditionally when a guy is the starter, it's up to anyone else to have a greater/more productive training camp to "unseat" him - yes?

My memory ain't the greatest - but again, I don't recall seeing anything that said that he is not the starter. I also don't recall much in the way of the media saying he's on his way out.

So then it's all speculation by us and the media? Guess I'll wait until training camp then.

Thank you Scott.

[Bretsky]

Wells - Can't really try harder. I don't know how he ever made it into the NFL, but he's a great technician. He's a very low error player, problem is he's just not big, strong, or athletic enough to ever dominate at the NFL level, and dominant defensive lineman can beat him.

.


Interesting take on Wells that I agree 100% on. He's that starter who you are always looking to replace if you hit on a draft pick. He's probably below average but good enough to get along with if you have to.

I'd have said the same about Poppinga last year

Throw Bigby in there as well

[pbmax]

I don't think McCarthy, the reporters and fans were talking about the same level of musical chairs. Waldo makes a very good point that Colledge might be the best LT backup on the roster this year and certainly was last year. Same with Spitz at Center. There is a reasonable chance that neither changes soon.

But the coaches had some players at three positions in the past two years, including during training camp. Spitz was at both Guards and center. Moll was at both tackles and RG. and Colledge has spent time at four (both guards and tackles). And that is stretching it, and speaks to either bad roster construction or weak depth. I think this is what McCarthy was referring to.

One indication of the coming correction is Duke Preston. If Wells loses his job to Spitz, he might be off the team as he offers little in Special Teams and might not be able to play Guard, so he can only backup on spot. Preston covers you at three positions. On a game day active list, Preston offers better coverage. The challenge is whether Spitz can play center as good as Wells. Because the O Line will make better sense if he comes close. Because Preston then sticks, even though Preston may never play Center as well as Scott.

[Fritz]

On a side note, Buffalo fans were really happy to see the Dukester go. They believe he has the intelligence of a bag of rocks.