Is Donald Lee underrated?

[HarveyWallbangers]

That question was posed in this article in the Wisconsin State Journal. I'd say most Packers fans rated him fairly. He's not elite, but he's a solid all around TE. Probably middle of the pack as far as starters in the league. He was 9th in the NFC in receptions last year (3rd in TDs). He was 6th in the NFC in receptions in 2007 (3rd in TDs). I think you could say his blocking is probably above average at this point in his career.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/packers//459650


Is Donald Lee better than people realize?

While much of the attention during the offseason practices focused on second-year man Jermichael Finley, who’s expected to make a major leap after an unproductive rookie season, Lee, the starter at the position the past two years, simply did what he always does during the media’s open locker-room access periods: He quietly dressed at his locker, minding his own business. He probably deserves better. With 11 touchdown catches the past two years and his more-than-solid blocking, Lee might be the biggest unsung hero on the Packers’ offense.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Yes.

Until proven I cannot believe Finley has matured or gotten smarter.

Prove yourself Finely, Lee has.

[pbmax]

He seems to be doing the same development arc as Franks. Starts out with decent athleticism and hands and is deadly near the goal line (Lee in my memory has more speed-not sure if the stopwatch would verify this or not). But as time goes on, no longer seems to be a threat in the deep middle. Initial questions about blocking turn into compliments of his work ethic and development. Its like TE de-evolution: from pass catcher to OT.

He spent one year (07 I think) mainly in the backfield as part of the oddest max protect alignment you have ever seen. That probably cost him some catches that year. I think the Packers would love for Finley to be the pass catcher and deeper threat, while leaving the heavy lifting to others.

[Fritz]

You're right, PB - that was some weird protection scheming that year. People lining up like H-backs and blocking. Favre had to feel good at least about the quantity of guys blocking, if not the quality.

[woodbuck27]

You're right, PB - that was some weird protection scheming that year. People lining up like H-backs and blocking. Favre had to feel good at least about the quantity of guys blocking, if not the quality.

Favre had all day protection in 2007 out of the shotgun. Lots of time to find an open man or toss the play away.

[Bretsky]

Probably pretty easy to name a ten TE's you would probably take before Lee

After that you can throw him in anywhere with the next 10

[rbaloha1]

The question should be is DL overrated. Since signing his contract DL reminds of the te from the Favre era -- Ty "something."

[HarveyWallbangers]

The question should be is DL overrated. Since signing his contract DL reminds of the te from the Favre era -- Ty "something."

Lee is tons better than Davis. Rodgers wasn't as comfortable going to his TEs as Favre was. It's not like he dropped a bunch of balls or his blocking was poor. I can see wanting an upgrade because he isn't elite, but to insinuate that he's loafed since signing his contract is silly. It's not like he signed for elite money (less than $3M/year)--which is less than both Vikings TEs and about the same as Desmond Clark.

[Bretsky]

The question should be is DL overrated. Since signing his contract DL reminds of the te from the Favre era -- Ty "something."

Don't think he's overrated either; he's just alright. You can have a few of those on a championship team. Hopefully Finley becomes the special one

[woodbuck27]

Surprized? Donald Lee is the 98th ranked out of 101 ranked TE's on this site:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numgames=1

PACKERS!

[rbaloha1]

The question should be is DL overrated. Since signing his contract DL reminds of the te from the Favre era -- Ty "something."

Lee is tons better than Davis. Rodgers wasn't as comfortable going to his TEs as Favre was. It's not like he dropped a bunch of balls or his blocking was poor. I can see wanting an upgrade because he isn't elite, but to insinuate that he's loafed since signing his contract is silly. It's not like he signed for elite money (less than $3M/year)--which is less than both Vikings TEs and about the same as Desmond Clark.

Good point. However maybe AR does not trow to tes because he does not have the same faith BF did.

Ty was one of those players that performed well in practice but stumbled during games.

[DonHutson]

He seems to be doing the same development arc as Franks.

Let's hope he finds the tangent at the top and doesn't follow the same arc of deterioration as Franks in which he gets hurt a lot, loses confidence in his hands, feels intense pressure to make more plays, drops more balls, botches more plays, and generally gets the yips to the point that he's damn near useless.

Actually, while the arc may be the same, I don't see a ton of similarities between Lee and Franks. Lee is much better at making plays downfield, Franks was a better blocker and seemed to have a knack for getting open in a crowd, especially in the red zone (at least until he broke his brain).

It's an interesting question as to why Lee isn't more productive in the short passing game. A poster below suggested it was because Rodgers wasn't looking for him. That could be true, but Rodgers was able to find his WR's on a ton of short passes. Maybe Lee was too far down on the list of progressions and Rodgers didn't get to him as often. That would suggest a chance for greater production as Rodgers gets even more comfortable. But if it's because Lee doesn't have that skill for creating a little space in a crowd, then his upside is probably limited to what we've already seen: pretty good.

[Waldo]

Packer fans lover their blue collar lunchpail players, but Lee.

Lee lead the NFL for all TE's in 2007 and 2008 in % of targeted passes caught (with the stipulation of having at least caught 20 passes).

Lee is #4 in the NFL in 2007 and 2008 in # of TD passes caught, behind Gonzo, Gates, and Clark, tied at #4 with Witten with 11.

People seem down on Lee because he doesn't catch a ton of passes. Why throw to him when you can throw to our WR corps? TE's are good to use when the WR's can't get open, but ours typically can.

Lee's YPC has been all over, reflecting his varied uses. Lee did a fair amount of seam work in 2007, catching a couple of nice ones from Brett, in 2008 I never once saw him head deep down the seam (doesn't mean it didn't happen). Lee can only do what he is told.

Going into last year if AR had a problem, it is that he took the checkdowns too much and rarely drove the ball down the field, and I feel it was a point of emphasis in his coaching to not do that over last offseason. The three players that would be most impacted negatively by that coaching point are Lee, Jackson, and Grant. Incidentally......

When you aren't a first read on many/any plays (outside of the RZ), and the QB has a coaching point to not check the ball down much, your stats aren't going to look great.

Lee's blocking isn't great. But good, definitely above acceptable.

pbmax - Lee is a 4.8 guy. Franks was a 5.0 guy. Lee is faster than Franks ever was, and sits right on the average TE band (athletic = >4.7, average = 4.7-4.9, slow = < 4.9. Franks was a lot bigger than Lee.

[Waldo]

He spent one year (07 I think) mainly in the backfield as part of the oddest max protect alignment you have ever seen.

2006, MM's first year.

[hoosier]

Surprized? Donald Lee is the 98th ranked out of 101 ranked TE's on this site:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numgames=1

PACKERS!

Yeah, and Todd Heap is ranked #97. And they have David Martin in their top 10! :lol:

[Waldo]

Surprized? Donald Lee is the 98th ranked out of 101 ranked TE's on this site:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numgames=1

PACKERS!

Yeah, and Todd Heap is ranked #97. And they have David Martin in their top 10! :lol:

They rank all the backups right around average, and starters from good to bad. Any TE worse than about 15 or so will jump down to below all the backups as well. You have to filter out all the backups.

[Gunakor]

Surprized? Donald Lee is the 98th ranked out of 101 ranked TE's on this site:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numgames=1

PACKERS!

Yeah, and Todd Heap is ranked #97. And they have David Martin in their top 10! :lol:

They rank all the backups right around average, and starters from good to bad. Any TE worse than about 15 or so will jump down to below all the backups as well. You have to filter out all the backups.

So Chris Cooley and Kellen Winslow and Antonio Gates are in the bottom half of all starting NFL TE's? I'm not sure I understand the criteria they used to form this ranking. It's very misleading. That's 3 top 10 TE's they have ranked @ 72 or lower.

[Waldo]

Sort by receiving, after all, that is your judging criteria :wink:

I noticed that it is missing some data for at least the Chargers (Rivers' numbers are way off, Gates appear to be too).

[woodbuck27]

He spent one year (07 I think) mainly in the backfield as part of the oddest max protect alignment you have ever seen.

2006, MM's first year.

Waldo, if you read this would you please elaborate on it:

" When you aren't a first read on many/any plays (outside of the RZ), and the QB has a coaching point to not check the ball down much, your stats aren't going to look great. " fr. a Waldo post

specifically in terms of: to not check the ball down much

Thank You.

GO PACKERS!

[woodbuck27]

He seems to be doing the same development arc as Franks.

Let's hope he finds the tangent at the top and doesn't follow the same arc of deterioration as Franks in which he gets hurt a lot, loses confidence in his hands, feels intense pressure to make more plays, drops more balls, botches more plays, and generally gets the yips to the point that he's damn near useless.

Actually, while the arc may be the same, I don't see a ton of similarities between Lee and Franks. Lee is much better at making plays downfield, Franks was a better blocker and seemed to have a knack for getting open in a crowd, especially in the red zone (at least until he broke his brain).

It's an interesting question as to why Lee isn't more productive in the short passing game. A poster below suggested it was because Rodgers wasn't looking for him. That could be true, but Rodgers was able to find his WR's on a ton of short passes. Maybe Lee was too far down on the list of progressions and Rodgers didn't get to him as often. That would suggest a chance for greater production as Rodgers gets even more comfortable. But if it's because Lee doesn't have that skill for creating a little space in a crowd, then his upside is probably limited to what we've already seen: pretty good.

Maybe Rodgers and Lee don't hang around with one another enough?

[hoosier]

Sort by receiving, after all, that is your judging criteria :wink:

Great, now Lee is #95 and Antonio Gates is ranked #20, just behind Derek Fine and Darcy Johnson. :lol:

I know, we have to filter out the scrubs. I don't see that their website lets you do that.

[Fritz]

Sort by receiving, after all, that is your judging criteria :wink:

Great, now Lee is #95 and Antonio Gates is ranked #20, just behind Derek Fine and Darcy Johnson. :lol:

I know, we have to filter out the scrubs. I don't see that their website lets you do that.

That's better than scrubbing out the filters! :rs:

[Waldo]

He spent one year (07 I think) mainly in the backfield as part of the oddest max protect alignment you have ever seen.

2006, MM's first year.

Waldo, if you read this would you please elaborate on it:

" When you aren't a first read on many/any plays (outside of the RZ), and the QB has a coaching point to not check the ball down much, your stats aren't going to look great. " fr. a Waldo post

specifically in terms of: to not check the ball down much

Thank You.

GO PACKERS!

I'm sure that I am not the only one prior to last year that had major reservations related to one part of Rodgers game, namely the guy constantly would take the checkdown on every play and virtually never drove the ball down the field or took chances by throwing into coverage.

While it is not something that must always be done, driving the ball down the field and taking chances in coverage must be done to field a successful passing game. Pass to set up the run only works if the safeties play back and double the deep men. If the safeties can creep the box because the QB is afraid to throw it to a single covered receiver, instead opting to throw to uncovered underneath targets, there is no run benefit, and drive simply cannot be consistently sustained by continually checking down.

There is a place for checking down and it is a good play occasionally. A short quick pass is not a checkdown. A checkdown is often not a very successful play.

Aaron ALWAYS threw to his checkdowns prior to '08. I (and most GB fans) didn't even know what his deep ball looked like he used it so sparingly. Yet there is this dramatic shift between '07 and '08, all of a sudden Aaron almost never went to his checkdown outlets and threw deep quite often (and well). He went from a guy that checked down 2x as much as Brett to a guy that checked down 1/2 as much as Brett in one offseason.

I think that MM saw this to be one of Aaron's biggest flaws prior to the '08 season (many Packer fans saw this flaw in Aaron, and it is a rather major flaw), and took steps to correct it. Clearly Aaron responded, but I think they overshot it. I think the next step is to re-emphasize the checkdown as a means of avoiding pressure and cutting down on happy feet.

Unfortunately for Lee in '08, 9/10 of the time he was either a blocker or a checkdown option.

[hoosier]

Sort by receiving, after all, that is your judging criteria :wink:

Great, now Lee is #95 and Antonio Gates is ranked #20, just behind Derek Fine and Darcy Johnson. :lol:

I know, we have to filter out the scrubs. I don't see that their website lets you do that.

That's better than scrubbing out the filters! :rs:

I scrubbed out my filter last week. The one on my office window AC unit, which was probably built in 1955. I stick it under the sink faucet to get rid of all the dust and lint that has collected on it since last summer, and the damned filter just dissolves into little pieces of foam and lint, which quickly disappear down the drain. Time to order a new AC. 8-)

[Fritz]

Or your company might decide it's time to track down the company who made the filters in 1955, and order a new filter, costing probably more than a new air conditioner....in order to save money. It would look bad for the employees to be getting new air conditioners!