BJ RAJI

[Bretsky]

Holdout

Sign the dam deal B.J,
Sign the dam deal !!

Not looking good per report this morn on ESPN

Sounds like he's going to milk things out with the rest of the top 10

[MJZiggy]

Maybe the Bikini Girls should focus their attention on this rather than hibernation...

[Kiwon]

What are the ball park figures being discussed?

Don't the Packers traditionally attempt to get 6 year deals with rookie contracts?

[oregonpackfan]

This situation is not good for both B.J. Raji and the Packers, IMO.

[red]

i don't know if you can blame raji or the packers for this. nobody around raji has been signed yet, and crabtree and smith are both looking for big deals. the only guy close to raji that has been signed is DHB by the raiders, and insane al gave him a monster deal

blame this on teams and agents waiting so long to start signing 1st rounders

[pittstang5]

i don't know if you can blame raji or the packers for this. nobody around raji has been signed yet, and crabtree and smith are both looking for big deals. the only guy close to raji that has been signed is DHB by the raiders, and insane al gave him a monster deal

blame this on teams and agents waiting so long to start signing 1st rounders

Agreed. BJ won't be signed until the players around him are signed. I heard a couple weeks ago that Crabtree could be the "fly in the oinment" for the players taken around him....looks like that is the case here. If he's not signed by middle of this coming week....then I'll start to worry.

[rbaloha1]

This is an unfortunate situation since Raji was expected to start.

Appears the holdout may be longer than anticipated. Its crucial JH steps up and asserts himself as a starter.

[bobblehead]

These are the things that make me hate sports. The kid is being offered millions, and wants just a little more (or his agent does). JUST ONCE I'd like to see TT play hardball and not sign him. Let him sit for a year and see what happens to his stock. It wouldn't be the first wasted first round pick in history, but it might be the first wasted pick that didn't cost millions.

[MJZiggy]

I'm sure he's got the physical tools he needs, but Raji's also got a lot to learn out there. If he's confused as to his assignments once he gets into camp, it could cost him.

[]{ilr]3]

I was really hoping he would get in there.

Looks like Harvin just signed with the vikings.

I doubt that will hurry the rest of them along any further as he was the 22nd pick (even if he argued he was top 10 talent)


Harvin signs with Vikings
Posted by Mike Florio on August 2, 2009 12:11 PM ET
A league source tells us that receiver Percy Harvin has agreed to terms with the Minnesota Vikings.

Per the source, it's a five-year deal.

Harvin, the 22nd overall pick in the draft, was regarded in some circles as a potential top-ten talent who slid due to among other things reports of a positive marijuana result at the Scouting Combine.

The Vikings apparently plan to make Harvin a key part of the offense. In Florida, he worked both as a receiver and as a running back, with almost equal reps at both positions.

Harvin also took reps during the offseason as quarterback in the Wildcat package.

Though he's also regarded as a potential contributor in the return game, Harvin didn't return kickoffs or punts at Florida, given his importance to the offense. Frankly, we can't help but wonder whether the same reasoning will apply in Minnesota.

Then again, coach Brad Childress knows he needs to win this year, and so he'll likely use Harvin until his legs fall off.

[Dabaddestbear]

Take your time B.J. You are making Bear, and Viking fans proud.

[bobblehead]

Take your time B.J. You are making Bear, and Viking fans proud.

Its about the only thing you'll have to be proud of all season :P :shock:

[Rastak]

From PFT.com.

We need a rookie salary scale in this sport. I hope they get that in the next CBA. This is a bunch of crap.





The Green Bay Packers and defensive lineman B.J. Raji continue to be at odds regarding a rookie deal.

As Tom Pellisero of the Green Bay Press-Gazette has pointed out, nothing is imminent between the player and the team.

On Saturday, Pelissero reported that it'll be "at least a couple days" before a deal gets done.

On Sunday, linebacker Clay Matthews said that Raji is "champing at the bit" to work the thing out. (Based on his size, we assume that Raji also has been champing at the bear claws, too.)

The obvious problem is that the two of the three picks directly in front of Raji (Andre Smith at No. 6 and Eugene Monroe haven't signed) and the three picks directly behind him (Michael Crabtree at No. 10, Aaron Maybin at No. 11, and Knowshon Moreno at No. 12) haven't signed yet.

Then there's the reality that Raji is represented by Athletes First, the same firm that had last year's ninth overall pick, Bengals linebacker Keith Rivers. If the agents do too good of a deal in comparison to last year's contract at the same slot, Rivers might feel miffed. And if they don't do good enough of a deal at No. 9 this year, they might be leapfrogged by Crabtree.

Regardless of how it all works out, Raji already is eating more than the bit and/or the bear claws.

He's eating his words.

"There will be no problem, as far as holding out on my end," Raji said in June. "I'm a rookie but from what I've been told, holdouts are not necessarily a good thing.

"Especially a rookie coming in, you can't afford to miss a week or two of training camp, especially when you're trying to find a way to get on the field. Yeah, that's my agency, but I'm in control, not the other way around."

We're not sure who's in control at this point. But the bottom line is that Raji is missing time that he'll never be able to make up.

[]{ilr]3]

:bclap: Quoted for Truth! :bclap:
From PFT.com.

We need a rookie salary scale in this sport. I hope they get that in the next CBA. This is a bunch of crap.





The Green Bay Packers and defensive lineman B.J. Raji continue to be at odds regarding a rookie deal.

As Tom Pellisero of the Green Bay Press-Gazette has pointed out, nothing is imminent between the player and the team.

On Saturday, Pelissero reported that it'll be "at least a couple days" before a deal gets done.

On Sunday, linebacker Clay Matthews said that Raji is "champing at the bit" to work the thing out. (Based on his size, we assume that Raji also has been champing at the bear claws, too.)

The obvious problem is that the two of the three picks directly in front of Raji (Andre Smith at No. 6 and Eugene Monroe haven't signed) and the three picks directly behind him (Michael Crabtree at No. 10, Aaron Maybin at No. 11, and Knowshon Moreno at No. 12) haven't signed yet.

Then there's the reality that Raji is represented by Athletes First, the same firm that had last year's ninth overall pick, Bengals linebacker Keith Rivers. If the agents do too good of a deal in comparison to last year's contract at the same slot, Rivers might feel miffed. And if they don't do good enough of a deal at No. 9 this year, they might be leapfrogged by Crabtree.

Regardless of how it all works out, Raji already is eating more than the bit and/or the bear claws.

He's eating his words.

"There will be no problem, as far as holding out on my end," Raji said in June. "I'm a rookie but from what I've been told, holdouts are not necessarily a good thing.

"Especially a rookie coming in, you can't afford to miss a week or two of training camp, especially when you're trying to find a way to get on the field. Yeah, that's my agency, but I'm in control, not the other way around."

We're not sure who's in control at this point. But the bottom line is that Raji is missing time that he'll never be able to make up.

[Lurker64]

It's really not a problem with Raji, it's a problem with the whole top 15 this year.

When you combine "bad economy" with "weak draft" teams are hesitant to give ridiculous deals. But traditionally, teams just work up from the back of the first round and you give the n-1st guy slightly more than the nth guy, with some premiums included or removed for elite positions like quarterbacks. You can also go the other way, so if the nth player is signed, give the n+1th player slightly less money.

But Raji?

The 6th pick is not signed.
The 7th pick signed a ridiculous (Raiders) contract.
The 8th pick is not signed.
The 10th pick is not signed, and is looking for ridiculous money.
The 11th pick is not signed.
The 12th pick is not signed.

So it's not just that the kid doesn't want to play football, I'm sure he does, it's that neither the Packers nor Raji's agent has a good idea about how much he should be paid.

[PlantPage55]

It's really not a problem with Raji, it's a problem with the whole top 15 this year.

When you combine "bad economy" with "weak draft" teams are hesitant to give ridiculous deals. But traditionally, teams just work up from the back of the first round and you give the n-1st guy slightly more than the nth guy, with some premiums included or removed for elite positions like quarterbacks. You can also go the other way, so if the nth player is signed, give the n+1th player slightly less money.

But Raji?

The 6th pick is not signed.
The 7th pick signed a ridiculous (Raiders) contract.
The 8th pick is not signed.
The 10th pick is not signed, and is looking for ridiculous money.
The 11th pick is not signed.
The 12th pick is not signed.

So it's not just that the kid doesn't want to play football, I'm sure he does, it's that neither the Packers nor Raji's agent has a good idea about how much he should be paid.

This will be ignored, because people prefer to talk negatively about the Packers. Especially the media.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's not a big deal at this point if he misses a few days. He's a DL and not a CB, QB or a major skill position that has a ton to learn. If he stays in shape, he's going to be fine for when he does come into camp.

[Rastak]

I agree Lurker, but the real problem is the entire system.

I can't do a deal until this guy does his deal because if I go first and then the contract looks bad in comparison then I might lose future business.


It could be circumvented from the player side by saying "I want you to ask for a 5 year deal that's 10% better than #9 last year. If the team says yes, then work out the terms and do it".

The agent's going to balk because of what I said earlier. Who works for who?

The system is broken and needs fixing badly.

[Lurker64]

Yeah, the real problem is if Raji really, really wants to play and says his agent "listen, I'll just play for whatever contract the #9 pick got last year" the agent will try as hard as he can to talk him out of it. Since around the time players are declaring for the draft, agents are competing for top clients and the main selling point agents have is "I get great contracts for my clients."

So if the agent does what Raji hypothetically wants and just gets him some kind of contract that may not be the best Raji could possibly receive, he's hurting his chance to get elite clients in the future. This is what drives agents like Eugene Parker to encourage his clients to engage in long holdouts (watch out Crabtree!).

I agree entirely that some sort of slotting or guidelines are really necessary, at least near the top.

[Rastak]

I know Florio has speculated before that if a player demands that sort of thing the agent will drop him before doing a deal that might screw him for future deals.

Again, who works for who here? The agents have their own agenda completely seperate from the players and the teams. They need to eliminate the factors that allow this 3rd agenda in the next CBA.

[Lurker64]

Would it be problematic for the Packers in future negotiations if they said to Raji:

"Hey, drop your agent, and we'll give you 10% more than the #9 player from last year (6 years, 25.3 million dollars) with the standard package of defensive lineman incentives. Plus, without an agent, you can pocket all of it and nobody takes a 10% cut. So you're actually getting, before taxes, 20% more than the guy from last year!"

I'm assuming that's considered dirty pool.

I mean, if the agent would drop a player for demanding that he just get a contract because he wants to play, can't a player drop his agent because he just wants a contract so he can play?

[Rastak]

I'm saying if the player pushes hard and says this is what I want you to do, would the agent revolt and drop the guy rather than follow his wishes, knowing that it might hurt his future business? Could be.

I think that if the agent wants to quit that's a perfectly legal thing to do. Fuck him. Somebody else can get the agent % of the contract, although there is a certain waiting period after a player fires an agent which could screw the player when camp has just started.

[pbmax]

Holdout

Sign the dam deal B.J,
Sign the dam deal !!

Not looking good per report this morn on ESPN

Sounds like he's going to milk things out with the rest of the top 10
Why don't we argue that the Packers should cave in to Raji's demands? I doubt they have even exchanged offers yet, certainly not the Packers. Why negotiate when you aren't sure what the terms of the deal should look like?

And its not a hold out if you don't have a contract. Easterbrook claims its the same since in either case services are withheld, but as usual he misses the forest for the trees. While he sees the term equally applicable according to the dictionary, one is a case of ignoring a contract. One is not.

[Patler]

I'm saying if the player pushes hard and says this is what I want you to do, would the agent revolt and drop the guy rather than follow his wishes, knowing that it might hurt his future business? Could be.

I think that if the agent wants to quit that's a perfectly legal thing to do. Fuck him. Somebody else can get the agent % of the contract, although there is a certain waiting period after a player fires an agent which could screw the player when camp has just started.

I don't know for sure, but I doubt if there is a waiting period if the agent quits. If the player agrees to an offer, I think the agent is duty bound to go along with it, whether the agent likes it or not. The only alternative is for the agent to withdraw from the representation.

[Bretsky]

Holdout

Sign the dam deal B.J,
Sign the dam deal !!

Not looking good per report this morn on ESPN

Sounds like he's going to milk things out with the rest of the top 10
Why don't we argue that the Packers should cave in to Raji's demands? I doubt they have even exchanged offers yet, certainly not the Packers. Why negotiate when you aren't sure what the terms of the deal should look like?

And its not a hold out if you don't have a contract. Easterbrook claims its the same since in either case services are withheld, but as usual he misses the forest for the trees. While he sees the term equally applicable according to the dictionary, one is a case of ignoring a contract. One is not.


You seriously think they have not even exchanged an offer yet...even verbally ?

[Scott Campbell]

Holdout

Sign the dam deal B.J,
Sign the dam deal !!

Not looking good per report this morn on ESPN

Sounds like he's going to milk things out with the rest of the top 10
Why don't we argue that the Packers should cave in to Raji's demands? I doubt they have even exchanged offers yet, certainly not the Packers. Why negotiate when you aren't sure what the terms of the deal should look like?

And its not a hold out if you don't have a contract. Easterbrook claims its the same since in either case services are withheld, but as usual he misses the forest for the trees. While he sees the term equally applicable according to the dictionary, one is a case of ignoring a contract. One is not.


You seriously think they have not even exchanged an offer yet...even verbally ?


I think everybody has a reasonable approximation of what he's worth based on last years slotting.

[Fritz]

Everybody wants BJ to be a slot, but he's not that easy.

[pbmax]

Holdout

Sign the dam deal B.J,
Sign the dam deal !!

Not looking good per report this morn on ESPN

Sounds like he's going to milk things out with the rest of the top 10
Why don't we argue that the Packers should cave in to Raji's demands? I doubt they have even exchanged offers yet, certainly not the Packers. Why negotiate when you aren't sure what the terms of the deal should look like?

And its not a hold out if you don't have a contract. Easterbrook claims its the same since in either case services are withheld, but as usual he misses the forest for the trees. While he sees the term equally applicable according to the dictionary, one is a case of ignoring a contract. One is not.


You seriously think they have not even exchanged an offer yet...even verbally ?
Not necessarily. The most common scenario is the agent passing along numbers and the team deciding to either A) counter offer, B) suggest they take some time to rethink, C) say nothing.

And that list is in ascending order of number of day to wait for a deal to be complete. The Niners, for instance, are reported to have decided NOT to counter-offer Eugene Parker's first numbers. So they are not talking.

The Packers cannot be much further along if they don't know the number Raji's agent wants to beat.

[Fritz]

I hear tell that Teddy is dangling a free Packerrats membership and Raji is pressuring his agent to take it, pronto.

[pbmax]

I think everybody has a reasonable approximation of what he's worth based on last years slotting.
Exactly, the question is by how far are you going to increase the total dollars and the guarantee. And it can be weirder if that draft position has an odd contract history. The 14th pick Jenkins is rumored to want a voidable deal like Revis got two years ago. It cost him money but he has an option to end the deal after four years. The guess on Jenkins is just Florio's take on a possible reason for a delay even though the picks before and after are done.

[Bretsky]

pb,

I can't agree with you. You take the #9 salary from last year as a basis and negotiate what type of pay raise you get from there. I'm confident GB is being fair and BJ not being signed indicates they are asking for the moon or holding out because they lack kohones !

If all these guys are waiting for each other to set the value I hope every single dang one of them has a crappy year (except Raji).

Somebody needs to grow some stones and get things done here.

Get your ass into GB, sign the dam deal, do about 25 one hundred yard sprints for leading us on to think you weren't one of the douche bags who holds out per your interview and show me why Green Bay didn't draft Crabtree for gosh sake !!!!!!

[pbmax]

You take the #9 salary from last year as a basis and negotiate what type of pay raise you get from there.
That sentence tells you all you need to know about the situation. Its a negotiation and people who are talking about money often, in fact, usually, are at pains to say it isn't all about money. Because it isn't. Although for this moment, it mostly is.

You think the Packer offer you imagine is fair. I doubt the agent believes it is. Do you think the Packer's are offering Heyward Bey's 20% markup on their (imaginary) offer? I doubt it. And until Raji's reps are convinced the top 10 isn't getting 20% raises, Raji will not sign. It might be in Raji's short term interest to sign, but its not in the agent's or NFLPA's interest long term.

If all but Raji get 20% bumps, then Athletes First (or CAA whatever they are called now) will lose clients next year to Eugene Parker. For good reason: Eugene Parker was better than they were in 2009.

[Bretsky]

You take the #9 salary from last year as a basis and negotiate what type of pay raise you get from there.
That sentence tells you all you need to know about the situation. Its a negotiation and people who are talking about money often, in fact, usually, are at pains to say it isn't all about money. Because it isn't. Although for this moment, it mostly is.

You think the Packer offer you imagine is fair. I doubt the agent believes it is. Do you think the Packer's are offering Heyward Bey's 20% markup on their (imaginary) offer? I doubt it. And until Raji's reps are convinced the top 10 isn't getting 20% raises, Raji will not sign. It might be in Raji's short term interest to sign, but its not in the agent's or NFLPA's interest long term.

If all but Raji get 20% bumps, then Athletes First (or CAA whatever they are called now) will lose clients next year to Eugene Parker. For good reason: Eugene Parker was better than they were in 2009.



So who is the first draft pick to sign then ? ; by this logic they might all be sitting for a while. Not everybody is as stupid as Al Davis

And if that's the case and they all sit I hope none of them are worth a shit

Raji should not have opened his trap about no way being a holdout

[pbmax]

Raji should not have opened his trap about no way being a holdout
Always a good plan in public negotiations. Say nothing of consequence.

By the way Rastak, according to PFT and Twitter, Bryant McKinnie has signed on with the Human Press Conference, Drew Rosenhaus. My condolences.

[LP]

I hear tell that Teddy is dangling a free Packerrats membership and Raji is pressuring his agent to take it, pronto.

I don't care where they were drafted. Nobody's worth that much! :D

[pbmax]

From the National Football Post/Andrew Brandt (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/A-look-at-rookie-contracts.html)

For those teams that wait until the week of training camp – which some teams do – the bonus amounts will have likely filled in around the pick, and it’s simple to fill in a fair number for both sides. As mentioned, some teams will look around the rounds of their picks in the week of training camp, call the agents and fill in the numbers. That’s a relatively stress-free way of doing the contracts; my nature would not allow me to do that because I’d be worried if we hadn’t signed most of our rookies by early to mid-July. For those like myself who tried to lock in contracts early in the development of the round, filling in a number becomes a task based on the previous, rather than the current, year.

Thus, in negotiating among the first deals in a couple of the rounds, the markers used this year were from the 2008 draft, examining the increase in bonus from 2007 to 2008 in various data points:

• the exact slot of the selection;
• the overall selection in the draft;
• the area three picks above and below the slot;
• the quadrant of the round;
• the half of the round;
• the full round.

In the lower rounds, the increases in bonus amounts are typically in the 3-4 percent range. In the second round, the range is broader and higher, anywhere from 6-8.5 percent.
Two things: Brandt is discussing everything here but the first round in this three part series. So there are undoubtedly some details missing. But I think what he does mention applies and points to what is missing for some of the first round.

There are few numbers around the #9 pick, so slotting based on this year is not available.

Crabtree is trying to crack the slotting, which is making other agents hesitate to sign what might, in short order, look like a bad contract. This is especially true of the #9 pick, right in front of Crabtree and Parker.

For Brandt's attempt to set the bar on slotting and raises based on last year's numbers, the agent has to agree on your estimation. Given Crabtree's situation, they may be less willing to jump the gun.

[Lurker64]

Looks like Raji just got harder to sign, since Eugene Monroe's agent is apparently trying to pull the insanity of the top 7 wages all the way down to the #8 spot, and the Jags have no interest in budging.

From PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/04/jags-wont-be-budging-with-monroe/).

So apparently neither the guy before us nor the guy after us is anywhere close to signing.... great.

Raji should just fire his agent and negotiate his own contract.

[Noodle]

I agree with PBMax. This is a tough situation for BJ, and I don't blame him for doing what he has to do. You gotta know the guy wants to be out there, but with the unsigned guys in front and the CF created by Crabtree behind, he would be crazy to sign too soon.

As to firing his agent, I'd be on board with that if the Packers grabbed some schmo off the street to negotiate for them. Fair, right?

We'll just have to wait. And for a change, don't blame the player. Blame the game.

[Rastak]

Raji should not have opened his trap about no way being a holdout
Always a good plan in public negotiations. Say nothing of consequence.

By the way Rastak, according to PFT and Twitter, Bryant McKinnie has signed on with the Human Press Conference, Drew Rosenhaus. My condolences.


I did hear that......might be time to draft a LT next year!

[Rastak]

Looks like Raji just got harder to sign, since Eugene Monroe's agent is apparently trying to pull the insanity of the top 7 wages all the way down to the #8 spot, and the Jags have no interest in budging.

From PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/04/jags-wont-be-budging-with-monroe/).

So apparently neither the guy before us nor the guy after us is anywhere close to signing.... great.

Raji should just fire his agent and negotiate his own contract.


Patler's probably right, if the agent quits there isn't a waiting period so he could tell his agent to get it done at 12% over last year....if he won't and he (the agent) quits, then hire someone willing to do that deal.

[Merlin]

It isn't surprising he hasn't signed and I wholeheartedly agree in not over paying any first round pick. The odds are they won't be worth what you paid for them and you will be stuck with them for 3 years to see if the pick pays off, so overpaying is no guarantee of performance. We have people here throwing Hawk under the bus and he was what a #5? Imagine of BJ negotiates a larger contract than Hawk got, but turns into a Justin Harrell? Everything says he shouldn't but once that fat contract is signed, all bets are off. And the way Thompson does things, you have to know it will be a 5-6 year deal, of which we will be stuck with him for at least 4 if he doesn't work out.

I like the idea of working something into the CBO for a pay scale for draft order. Make them prove it before you pay them.

[hoosier]

Meanwhile the Minneapolis Star Tribune tries to have a little fun at the Packers expense. Due to cuts in the copyediting budget, however, the joke is really on them.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O%3ADW3ckUiD3aPc%3A_Yyc %3AaUQ7c4E7ME5U



Blog: Around the NFL

Rahi's Green Bay holdout good news for Vikings
Defensive tackle B.J. Rahi's holdout is apparently in reaction to the fact that the guy picked behind him -- 49ers wide receiver Michael Crabtree -- hasn't yet agreed to a contract.

Photo right: B.J. Rahi http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4696/86789272.jpg