A Few Early Training Camp Thoughts

[The Shadow]

1. I don't think that the somewhat commonly-held belief that Wells is going away is accurate. It now seems at this early point that it is Preston who is more likely to go.
2. Could Bishop's play overtake Barnett?
3. Harrell's early performance , as well as Jenkins - and Raji's addition could quite suddenly all combine to vault the defensive line from a worrisome spot to a strength.
4. The offensive line might now be the biggest question mark.

[pbmax]

Bishop can't cover. If he takes a spot, they would prefer it to be Hawk's position. If Barnett isn't ready, then Chillar could get bounced on run downs for Bishop, but Hawk would have to be the cover guy.

[The Shadow]

I'm not so sure Barnett covers all that much better - and now with the leg injury....

[Fritz]

Given the usual provisos - it's early, injuries, etc. - I would say that Preston appears to be the one in trouble. A few comments here and there about him struggling on the left side, a few comments about Moll from the Coach that seem favorable, same with Wells, and boom - yes, Preston might be gone.

[The Shadow]

Preston seems to have that certain Adrian Klemm mojo.

[pbmax]

While you can't be sure about the knee recovery, Barnett was/(if healthy) will be our best cover linebacker.

[CaptainKickass]

1. I don't think that the somewhat commonly-held belief that Wells is going away is accurate. It now seems at this early point that it is Preston who is more likely to go.
2. Could Bishop's play overtake Barnett?
3. Harrell's early performance , as well as Jenkins - and Raji's addition could quite suddenly all combine to vault the defensive line from a worrisome spot to a strength.
4. The offensive line might now be the biggest question mark.

I've been maintaining that the starting center job is, was, has been, and will be Wells job to lose. Lots of sentiment on this board and from the media to the contrary, but a guy who starts @ center in the NFL for 4 years doesn't just "go away" without a fight. One thing Wells has proven is that despite the fact that he ain't as tall, quick, strong as the "template" for an NFL center says he should be - the dude has fought for everything he's gotten, every year, and I really don't see that changing. Especially after reading where he's made some gains in the offseason as well as endeared himself to the coaches.

I don't believe that Wells is going anywhere this season and will show enough fight to be the starting center - again - barring injury.

.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've been maintaining that the starting center job is, was, has been, and will be Wells job to loose.

Not sure about that.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/52478752.html


McCarthy won't directly admit it, but it's clear from the team's actions that he wants more size up front so that he can succeed with a power running attack. The zone system is intact, but McCarthy has the option to run more inside plays if his linemen can get some movement...

Early on in camp, Spitz was working primarily at center, but moved to right guard when Wells got his turn. The coaches stopped that and now Spitz is playing exclusively at center so that he and Wells can have a fair competition.

This competition is between Sitton and Wells. I think the coaches are hoping that Sitton plays well at the RG spot, so Spitz can move to C. We'll see how Sitton does. He looked pretty good last year, and offers up much more size than Wells.

[CaptainKickass]

Yo Harv - I appreciate discussion like most, and commend your attempt with a quote and article to back up your stance.

BUT

You just kinda just reinforced my thoughts, and actually furthered my point:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/52478752.html


McCarthy won't directly admit it

Not only won't McCarthy directly admit it, he won't even indirectly admit it. I don't believe he has said anything even remotely close to that. At least not that I've been privy to in all of the media quotes and press conferences.

In fact - at the risk of being redundant - I have read that Wells has not only inproved in the offseason, but has actually further endeared himself to the coaches.

All of this "Wells will be gone this year" has been media and fan speculation as far as I can tell.

.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We'll see, but it makes little sense. If the coaches trusted Wells so much, don't you think they'd have Spitz compete with Sitton instead? Or are you speculating that the coaches aren't enamored with Spitz as an OG? I don't think that is the case either. My guess is Spitz starts no matter what. If Sitton does well at RG, Spitz starts at OC. If Sitton falls on his face, they move Spitz back to RG and Wells starts at OC.

[Merlin]

I think McCarthy saying that he wants to run more power plays is very telling. First it was all small guys for the ZBS and now they seem to be shifting to wanting bigger stronger guys which is in direct contrast with the type of lineman a true ZBS needs.

[CaptainKickass]

We'll see, but it makes little sense. If the coaches trusted Wells so much, don't you think they'd have Spitz compete with Sitton instead? Or are you speculating that the coaches aren't enamored with Spitz as an OG? I don't think that is the case either. My guess is Spitz starts no matter what. If Sitton does well at RG, Spitz starts at OC. If Sitton falls on his face, they move Spitz back to RG and Wells starts at OC.

I'm merely speculating that Wells wins the starting center job - again.

How does the rest of the Oline shake out? I got no idea.

:D

[The Shadow]

I think a tandem of Wells and Spitz is more appealing than Preston/Spitz.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think a tandem of Wells and Spitz is more appealing than Preston/Spitz.

Especially if Preston performs as poorly as it seems from training camp reports. I wasn't one that argued that Wells would be cut if he wasn't starting. The Packers aren't in cap trouble and I don't see them cutting good insurance for an injury in the interior OL. If everyone stays healthy, I think it's 50/50 at best on him starting though.

[Bretsky]

Keep Wells as a backup........or as a below average starter than gets overpowered too much

I'd prfer Spitz

[Partial]

We'll see, but it makes little sense. If the coaches trusted Wells so much, don't you think they'd have Spitz compete with Sitton instead? Or are you speculating that the coaches aren't enamored with Spitz as an OG? I don't think that is the case either. My guess is Spitz starts no matter what. If Sitton does well at RG, Spitz starts at OC. If Sitton falls on his face, they move Spitz back to RG and Wells starts at OC.

This is how I see it play out as well.

[The Shadow]

Preston is struggling.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090811/PKR01/90811134/1058

[pbmax]

Chillar got an official endorsement from McCarthy yesterday as one of the best players early in camp. I wonder how much this will slow down, if at all, Barnett's return to start?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good to see Kamp get the Thumbs Up today.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/53003512.html


THUMBS UP

The dog days of training camp arrived Tuesday night. The legs of RB Brandon Jackson suggested that. Back from injury after a 10-day hiatus, Jackson was playing the game at 78 rpm's while everyone else was at 45 rpm's. OLB AaronKampman had reason to be as tired as anyone on the field. For a week now, he has been forced to take a gargantuan share of the repetitions because three of his five teammates at the position have been out with injuries. "We've got to make sure we don't overwork him," defensive coordinator Dom Capers said at mid-day. So in the last period of the night, with the crowd thinning and enthusiasm among players beginning to ebb, Kampman came to the fore like the true professional that he is. Twice in a 19-play red-zone drill, he eluded RT Allen Barbre and would have sacked Aaron Rodgers if he wasn't in a red jersey. Slowly but surely, Kampman's heart and effort are helping him overcome the dramatic change in positions at age 29. "He's doing everything we're asking him to do, and doing it pretty well," said Capers. "He's made really good progress in terms of the transition."

[SnakeLH2006]

Keep Wells as a backup........or as a below average starter than gets overpowered too much

I'd prfer Spitz


Fuck it. Was gonna say the same...Spot on Bret.

[rbaloha1]

Wells is starting with Spitz as the rg. If this is the best 5 so be it. Maybe the surgery is helping Wells.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wells is starting with Spitz as the rg. If this is the best 5 so be it. Maybe the surgery is helping Wells.

They've pretty much been rotating. Wells is the incumbent, so I'm sure he'll get the benefit of the doubt. Don't count the battle over until the season has started. It sounds like Wells is over his injury though, so Sitton will really need to impress to gain a starting spot.

[bobblehead]

Good to see Kamp get the Thumbs Up today.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/53003512.html


THUMBS UP

The dog days of training camp arrived Tuesday night. The legs of RB Brandon Jackson suggested that. Back from injury after a 10-day hiatus, Jackson was playing the game at 78 rpm's while everyone else was at 45 rpm's. OLB AaronKampman had reason to be as tired as anyone on the field. For a week now, he has been forced to take a gargantuan share of the repetitions because three of his five teammates at the position have been out with injuries. "We've got to make sure we don't overwork him," defensive coordinator Dom Capers said at mid-day. So in the last period of the night, with the crowd thinning and enthusiasm among players beginning to ebb, Kampman came to the fore like the true professional that he is. Twice in a 19-play red-zone drill, he eluded RT Allen Barbre and would have sacked Aaron Rodgers if he wasn't in a red jersey. Slowly but surely, Kampman's heart and effort are helping him overcome the dramatic change in positions at age 29. "He's doing everything we're asking him to do, and doing it pretty well," said Capers. "He's made really good progress in terms of the transition."

Here is my problem with the "light" camp to keep players fresh. In the 4th quarter of games Kampman comes alive. If you don't work PAST that dog feeling you don't get more stamina.

Just like I always say if you don't PRACTICE in the cold you don't perform in the cold.....If you don't PRACTICE when you are fatigued you don't perform when you are fatigued.

Was it Lombardi who said "fatigue makes cowards of us all"?

Muhammad Ali used to say that he put in that extra roadwork when he was dog tired so that when he and his opponent both hit that stage he would know how to handle it. Sounds like Kampman is hitting that stage as well...time to work the other guys as much as Kamp.

[bobblehead]

Wells is starting with Spitz as the rg. If this is the best 5 so be it. Maybe the surgery is helping Wells.

They've pretty much been rotating. Wells is the incumbent, so I'm sure he'll get the benefit of the doubt. Don't count the battle over until the season has started. It sounds like Wells is over his injury though, so Sitton will really need to impress to gain a starting spot.

This is unlikely at this point, but I suggested it before camp. Can anyone see a scenario where we can't settle on a solid RT and our line ends up:

Clifton, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, College...or am I the only one??

[HarveyWallbangers]

Reading various training camp reports, here's the good and bad of what I've heard.

Good

1) Outside of Nick Barnett, the guys who were injured last year are mostly healthy. It sounds like Ryan Grant, Chad Clifton, Scott Wells, James Jones, A.J. Hawk, and Cullen Jenkins are healthy.
2) Jason Spitz is having a good camp.
3) Ryan Pickett seems to be adjusting well to NT in the 3-4.
4) Charles Woodson and Jenkins looks like beasts.
5) Deshawn Wynn looks improved.
6) Some of the no name receivers have impressed (Jake Allen, Kole Heckendorf, the kid out of South Dakota). Ruvell Martin better have a good camp.
7) Nick Collins is picking up the defense well.

Bad

1) Allen Barbre seems to be struggling.
2) Atari Bigby isn't where he was at in 2007.
3) The punters have struggled.
4) Rash of injuries to the LBs.
5) Because of injuries, holdouts, and ineffective play, the 2009 rookie class is struggling--not really surprising to me.
6) Just when Pat Lee was starting to impress, he got injured.
7) We have little depth at DE.

Others

1) Flynn and Brohm are better than last year, but still not QBs to count on in real games.
2) Crosby had a rough start to camp, but rebounded with a stellar performance yesterday.

[rbaloha1]

You failed to mention in the positives: Chillar and Bishop. Nonetheless still a good summary.

[vince]

Reading various training camp reports, here's the good and bad of what I've heard.

Good

1) Outside of Nick Barnett, the guys who were injured last year are mostly healthy. It sounds like Ryan Grant, Chad Clifton, Scott Wells, James Jones, A.J. Hawk, and Cullen Jenkins are healthy.
2) Jason Spitz is having a good camp.
3) Ryan Pickett seems to be adjusting well to NT in the 3-4.
4) Charles Woodson and Jenkins looks like beasts.
5) Deshawn Wynn looks improved.
6) Some of the no name receivers have impressed (Jake Allen, Kole Heckendorf, the kid out of South Dakota). Ruvell Martin better have a good camp.
7) Nick Collins is picking up the defense well.

Bad

1) Allen Barbre seems to be struggling.
2) Atari Bigby isn't where he was at in 2007.
3) The punters have struggled.
4) Rash of injuries to the LBs.
5) Because of injuries, holdouts, and ineffective play, the 2009 rookie class is struggling--not really surprising to me.
6) Just when Pat Lee was starting to impress, he got injured.
7) We have little depth at DE.

Others

1) Flynn and Brohm are better than last year, but still not QBs to count on in real games.
2) Crosby had a rough start to camp, but rebounded with a stellar performance yesterday.
I've been disengaged from training camp for awhile, so I haven't heard about Barbre's struggles. Can you elaborate on that Harv or anyone else? Is Giaco overtaking him at RT?

[HarveyWallbangers]

You failed to mention in the positives: Chillar and Bishop. Nonetheless still a good summary.

I forgot Chillar.

I'll believe it when I see it regarding Bishop. He looked solid in training camp last year, but his athletic limitations were apparent in the games. He'd make a good tackle or hit on one play and the next play an RB would run by him--because he either took a bad angle or wasn't athletic enough to contain the guy. Or he'd get toasted in coverage.

Lots of good stuff about Kampman too. Sounds like he's been a beast on run defense and pass rush and seems to be improving in coverage. I think his LB coach or the DC said he was about perfect in his coverage responsibility. The coaches seem very happy with him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've been disengaged from training camp for awhile, so I haven't heard about Barbre's struggles. Can you elaborate on that Harv or anyone else? Is Giaco overtaking him at RT?

Just about every practice they talked about how somebody (usually Kampman) got by him. The last couple of days, he and Breno have been rotating with the 1s.

[pbmax]

Good to see Kamp get the Thumbs Up today.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/53003512.html


THUMBS UP

The dog days of training camp arrived Tuesday night. The legs of RB Brandon Jackson suggested that. Back from injury after a 10-day hiatus, Jackson was playing the game at 78 rpm's while everyone else was at 45 rpm's. OLB AaronKampman had reason to be as tired as anyone on the field. For a week now, he has been forced to take a gargantuan share of the repetitions because three of his five teammates at the position have been out with injuries. "We've got to make sure we don't overwork him," defensive coordinator Dom Capers said at mid-day. So in the last period of the night, with the crowd thinning and enthusiasm among players beginning to ebb, Kampman came to the fore like the true professional that he is. Twice in a 19-play red-zone drill, he eluded RT Allen Barbre and would have sacked Aaron Rodgers if he wasn't in a red jersey. Slowly but surely, Kampman's heart and effort are helping him overcome the dramatic change in positions at age 29. "He's doing everything we're asking him to do, and doing it pretty well," said Capers. "He's made really good progress in terms of the transition."

Here is my problem with the "light" camp to keep players fresh. In the 4th quarter of games Kampman comes alive. If you don't work PAST that dog feeling you don't get more stamina.

Just like I always say if you don't PRACTICE in the cold you don't perform in the cold.....If you don't PRACTICE when you are fatigued you don't perform when you are fatigued.

Was it Lombardi who said "fatigue makes cowards of us all"?

Muhammad Ali used to say that he put in that extra roadwork when he was dog tired so that when he and his opponent both hit that stage he would know how to handle it. Sounds like Kampman is hitting that stage as well...time to work the other guys as much as Kamp.
Holmgren rarely practiced in the cold and his camps, like the 49ers, were lighter than many other teams of the era. Given his December record, there is more to playing in the cold than just practicing in it.

He and Walsh believed it was more important to practice effectively than to simulate the weather conditions of Game Day.

[pbmax]

Barbre has gotten worked by Kampman in pass blocking and he has not looked as consistently good now as he did in shorts in OTA and minicamps.

Giacomini has been better at pass blocking (its clearly the strength of his game), but he has only recently been going with the 1s. He hasn't faced Kampman as much. It remains to be seen how either fares in run blocking, which we won't get a good feel for until exhibition games.

[Patler]

I'm not sure that a whole lot should be read into Giacomini going with the 1's. MM has said all along that Giacomini would be given a chance. Barbre hasn't "won" the spot yet, he has had it by default. Until the start of TC, Giacomini hadn't practiced since a couple weeks before the end of last season. They gave him the first week with the 2's to get back into it, and now this week has been the start of his evaluation.

Since Barbre isn't an incumbent, the only way Giacomini wouldn't have gotten the chance is if he was horrible with the 2's. He wasn't, so he gets his chance. I've been expecting it.

One article said that while Giacomini ran a few series with the 1's, Barbre still got the bulk of the snaps.

I suspect both will run with the 1's at some point in the first couple preseason games. That will decide who they go into the season with at RT.

[pbmax]

I wish we could delete posts.

[Rastak]

I wish we could delete posts.


If it isn't in a quote somewhere, edit and pretend it never happened...... :D

[pbmax]

I wish we could delete posts.


If it isn't in a quote somewhere, edit and pretend it never happened...... :D
Agreed, and that was why that post reads like it does. I replied to Patler, posted and then realized I was just repeating both our points. The preseason game cannot get here fast enough. :lol: