Sign Vick? - Then What with Flynn/Brohm?

[Fritz]

I've asked this in a couple of threads but outside of a couple responses, not much has been said.

So here's the question: for those of you who would like to see the Packers sign Vick, what would you do about the other two backup QB's? Would you be willing to cut one? If so, which one? If you think you could trade one, which one would you trade and how much - realistically - do you think the Packers could get?

[Bretsky]

Vick the prick can go to the Raiders where he belongs

Flynn has to stay

And too early to get rid of Brohm when teams know he's blowed as a players so far and the value for the pick we got for CWill would bring us is a late round pick and a day old McDonalds Double Cheeseburger.

[Rastak]

I was of the mind that the Vikings should keep 4 QBs if Favre signed. With Vick, I think the Packers should do the same. Can't dump Brohm yet and Vick is a big question mark and a half assed QB anyway. That means dumping Flynn means someone picks him up and he's gone.

[Brando19]

I would keep 4 qb's...but if it came down to dumping one...trade Flynn for a 5th round pick or a proven punter. Too much invested in Brohm to let him go...I think he'll come around.

[Bretsky]

I would keep 4 qb's...but if it came down to dumping one...trade Flynn for a 5th round pick or a proven punter. Too much invested in Brohm to let him go...I think he'll come around.


Flynn has shown 3x Brohm so far; he's a leader as well. You don't let that one go yet IMO.

[Lurker64]

The decision about what to do with Vick's roster spot doesn't need to be made just yet. Considering that if he were signed, McCarthy would probably get him involved in ways other than "backup QB", he could easily take the space of the third TE (since Humphrey will be on some sort of injured list) or the second FB (though, that's unlikely since Quinn Johnson doesn't look ready to start just yet.)

[Brando19]

I would keep 4 qb's...but if it came down to dumping one...trade Flynn for a 5th round pick or a proven punter. Too much invested in Brohm to let him go...I think he'll come around.


Flynn has shown 3x Brohm so far; he's a leader as well. You don't let that one go yet IMO.

I know that many are high on Flynn...but I'm not. He's had a few good practices. In those practices...he has been better than Brohm...but Flynn isn't a solid backup in my opinion. The only reason I would trade Flynn is because of the big investment in Brohm. Vick is a million times better than Flynn...at this point.

[Bretsky]

I would keep 4 qb's...but if it came down to dumping one...trade Flynn for a 5th round pick or a proven punter. Too much invested in Brohm to let him go...I think he'll come around.


Flynn has shown 3x Brohm so far; he's a leader as well. You don't let that one go yet IMO.

I know that many are high on Flynn...but I'm not. He's had a few good practices. In those practices...he has been better than Brohm...but Flynn isn't a solid backup in my opinion. The only reason I would trade Flynn is because of the big investment in Brohm. Vick is a million times better than Flynn...at this point.

Vick of "two years ago" was far better than Flynn

Flynn looked better than Brohm last year; Brohm is a lot more quiet while many have commented Flynn is a take charge kind of leader.

Flynn and Brohm both went to the QB camp by MM and it appears, from all readings, Flynn has taken a big step forward while Brohm has taken a little step ahead.

Remember Flynn ran a unique offense in college that differs a lot from the NFL so IMO he has some upside as he progresses.

Honestly I don't like Flynn that much; but if GB would cut one of them right now it's Brohm.

I don't buy the big investment theory; we waited forever on a past 2nd rounder. If they overrated him then they overrated him; it's not a reason to hang onto him too long

It's too early to cut either of them loose but if Brohm is junk then cut ties when you've figured that out. I remember a former 2nd rounder we kept WAY too long and every year was the year.

[Brando19]

I would keep 4 qb's...but if it came down to dumping one...trade Flynn for a 5th round pick or a proven punter. Too much invested in Brohm to let him go...I think he'll come around.


Flynn has shown 3x Brohm so far; he's a leader as well. You don't let that one go yet IMO.

I know that many are high on Flynn...but I'm not. He's had a few good practices. In those practices...he has been better than Brohm...but Flynn isn't a solid backup in my opinion. The only reason I would trade Flynn is because of the big investment in Brohm. Vick is a million times better than Flynn...at this point.

Vick of "two years ago" was far better than Flynn

Flynn looked better than Brohm last year; Brohm is a lot more quiet while many have commented Flynn is a take charge kind of leader.

Flynn and Brohm both went to the QB camp by MM and it appears, from all readings, Flynn has taken a big step forward while Brohm has taken a little step ahead.

Remember Flynn ran a unique offense in college that differs a lot from the NFL so IMO he has some upside as he progresses.

Honestly I don't like Flynn that much; but if GB would cut one of them right now it's Brohm.

I don't buy the big investment theory; we waited forever on a past 2nd rounder. If they overrated him then they overrated him; it's not a reason to hang onto him too long

It's too early to cut either of them loose but if Brohm is junk then cut ties when you've figured that out. I remember a former 2nd rounder we kept WAY too long and every year was the year.

Good argument, Bretsky. I get what you're saying.

But if it came down to it...I'd rather have Vick over Flynn.

[Lurker64]

Honestly, I think that rather than cutting Brohm, you should be able to trade him for something. As bad as he is, he's got to be better than somebody's third string QB, right?

[Brando19]

Honestly, I think that rather than cutting Brohm, you should be able to trade him for something. As bad as he is, he's got to be better than somebody's third string QB, right?


Third string??!? The son of a bitch could start right now for the Vikings! :lol:

[Bretsky]

Honestly, I think that rather than cutting Brohm, you should be able to trade him for something. As bad as he is, he's got to be better than somebody's third string QB, right?


Third string??!? The son of a bitch could start right now for the Vikings! :lol:


So far he's looked no better than Josh Booty

[Brando19]

Honestly, I think that rather than cutting Brohm, you should be able to trade him for something. As bad as he is, he's got to be better than somebody's third string QB, right?


Third string??!? The son of a bitch could start right now for the Vikings! :lol:


So far he's looked no better than Josh Booty

Damn Viking lover...can't even hate with me. :wink:

[Freak Out]

Can Vick punt? Imagine the fakes we could run with him! He has to be as good as BJ Sander.

[Lurker64]

Can Vick punt? Imagine the fakes we could run with him! He has to be as good as BJ Sander.

Imagine Mike Vick holding for PATs and FGs...

[Chevelle2]

Can Vick punt? Imagine the fakes we could run with him! He has to be as good as BJ Sander.

Imagine Mike Vick holding for PATs and FGs...

You mean like a fake?

:shock:

[The Leaper]

If Brohm doesn't show much soon, you trade him for whatever you can get for him. We can't sit around and wait for years to see some development. At his draft position, he should be able to look competent at least occasionally by now. That doesn't seem to be happening.

Just how long are we supposed to wait? We already have a proven starter who is on his way to becoming one of the best young QBs in the game. I'd rather have a capable #2 than continue waiting on Brohm...no doubt about it.

[Rastak]

Honestly, I think that rather than cutting Brohm, you should be able to trade him for something. As bad as he is, he's got to be better than somebody's third string QB, right?


Third string??!? The son of a bitch could start right now for the Vikings! :lol:


Actually, last preseason Brohm == JD Booty from what I saw (both terrible) so he'd fight it out for #3


edit: I should have read the rest of the thread before hitting reply....Bretsky obviously made the same point. They did look exactly the same last year from what I saw........although I hear Booty is looking better this year.....Brohm? Better?

[MJZiggy]

If Brohm doesn't show much soon, you trade him for whatever you can get for him. We can't sit around and wait for years to see some development. At his draft position, he should be able to look competent at least occasionally by now. That doesn't seem to be happening.

Just how long are we supposed to wait? We already have a proven starter who is on his way to becoming one of the best young QBs in the game. I'd rather have a capable #2 than continue waiting on Brohm...no doubt about it.

Why? He's a third string quarterback. As long as the second string has some ability it's not like the dude is critical to the success of the team this year. This is exactly the guy that you CAN let sit around for a couple years to see if he can pull himself together and play as expected. From all I hear, Flynn has surpassed him in every way and I'm with TT on this one: once you're on the team, I don't give a damn where you were drafted. If the seventh rounder outperforms you, you sit at third string and hope your ass doesn't wind up on the practice squad. The only way his draft position comes into play is as a selling point if you do try to trade him, because if he's as terrible as folks say, that's all you've got. Better to let him spend some time in quarterback camp and see if M3 can make something out of him.

[woodbuck27]

Brohm is screaming I'm a bust in Green Bay. The logical thing to do in any sport except for NFL football is to package such a player (no player) in a trade to look for an upgrade.

This summation that he can be traded and re-couped based on his high drafting position is not valid. He's turning out to look like a bust. He's virtually worthless to us as a third QB.

On this speculation of bringing in M. Vick. We all know that won't fly unless M. Vick can be realistically assessed as a solid back-up. Such a move doesn't match the MO of our GM. It talkes lots and lots of repetition for a sports athlete to perform at a high level. Great Pro athletes can never be judged lazy. M. Vick is a gifted athlete and nearing 30 year's of age. He's been away fr. the game 2 years. As a QB he was never gifted as a passer.

Could he be signed cheap and developed as a running back? OK. I see that Patler has a thread up to discuss the possibilities to sign and utilize M. Vick.

GO PACKERS!

[MJZiggy]

Who trades for a bust?

And why develop Vick as a running back when we have running backs. Who's to say he's any good at the position to begin with. Any running he's done so far has been as a QB where all he has to do is slide feet first and no one can hit him. Imagine his surprise when he slides and gets flattened under the first defender to reach him (if not all of the defenders who can reach him). Does he even know how to find and hit a hole? Can he fight off first contact? How are his hips? Can he twist out of a defender's grasp? He's not an NFL-caliber running back right now so why get rid of one to try and make Vick into one?

[woodbuck27]

Who trades for a bust?

And why develop Vick as a running back when we have running backs. Who's to say he's any good at the position to begin with. Any running he's done so far has been as a QB where all he has to do is slide feet first and no one can hit him. Imagine his surprise when he slides and gets flattened under the first defender to reach him (if not all of the defenders who can reach him). Does he even know how to find and hit a hole? Can he fight off first contact? How are his hips? Can he twist out of a defender's grasp? He's not an NFL-caliber running back right now so why get rid of one to try and make Vick into one?

Who trades for a bust?

I suggested packaging Brohm in a trade MJ.

MJ we arn't deep at RB. Based on M. Vick's athleticism wouldn't you consider him as an upgrade for the Packers? You consider M. Vick as a RB based on his remarkable athleticism and whether or not he would commit to the 1000's of repitions it would take for him to develop the skills needed to be effective as a RB or more. ie You also consider that athleticism as a plus for us as a return man. It comes down to cost, developmentle potential Vs possible return to upgrade our team.

I predict that he will be signed by some team other than us for a second shot as a QB. M. Vick will most likely want to be a starter at QB. Aaron Rodgers is our starting QB and will continue to be effective for us hopefully. We should only consider M. Vick as helping us now in some other capacity.

Packers!

[MJZiggy]

Who trades for a package of busts? I just don't see TT packaging picks to get rid of a 2nd round pick. Who else are you planning on giving away?

Vick is athletic. I see him more as a track star-type player. He's fast but what else does he offer as a running back? There is a learned element to being an NFL running back and it takes time to learn. How much time do you want to give him to figure out which holes to hit, which linemen to follow, how to stay on his feet and HOLD ONTO THE BALL when some linebacker with a running start tries to remove his spleen? How many games you willing to sacrifice for that learning curve, remembering he won't have an offseason to learn it? If you're getting rid of Brohm to make room for him or another kid with years of potential, I think you're doing the team a disservice. His only immediate contribution is as a quarterback. Otherwise he's just a track star and you can have him.

[Scott Campbell]

Honestly, I think that rather than cutting Brohm, you should be able to trade him for something. As bad as he is, he's got to be better than somebody's third string QB, right?


I don't think he's worth anything right now. If he were, we wouldn't be considering Vick.

[woodbuck27]

Who trades for a package of busts? I just don't see TT packaging picks to get rid of a 2nd round pick. Who else are you planning on giving away?

Vick is athletic. I see him more as a track star-type player. He's fast but what else does he offer as a running back? There is a learned element to being an NFL running back and it takes time to learn. How much time do you want to give him to figure out which holes to hit, which linemen to follow, how to stay on his feet and HOLD ONTO THE BALL when some linebacker with a running start tries to remove his spleen? How many games you willing to sacrifice for that learning curve, remembering he won't have an offseason to learn it? If you're getting rid of Brohm to make room for him or another kid with years of potential, I think you're doing the team a disservice. His only immediate contribution is as a quarterback. Otherwise he's just a track star and you can have him.

MJ. You won't see M. Vick in the Green and Gold. As to packaging Brohm with another or others. A GM does this if he see's a positive potential to improve the team weighing various criteria.

Your the GM MJ. If you could trade for M. Vick straight up and the cost was Brian Brohm? Wouldn't you swing that trade in a heartbeat?

GO PACK GO!

[Bretsky]

If I'm the GM I still want nothing to do with Vick

[Fritz]

These are all interesting scenarios; thanks for the feedback.

My opinion at this point is that Vick's a guy who's been out of football for a couple of years and was never considered a pinpoint passer or a guy who would fit particularly well in a west coast offense. When you combine those qualities with his baggage - even if he's Mr. Reformed he'll still bring a circus - I just don't see that signing him helps the Packers at the QB position - not for a while, anyway.

However, if the Packers did bring him on board, I would consider giving him the spot a third tight end might otherwise have and then use Vick maybe five or six times a game in some kind of option formation, or as Patler suggested, perhaps as a kick returner, since Blackmon is supposedly better at punt returns than kick returns.

I'd be hesitant to give up on Brohm or give away Flynn, and Woody, I don't think that packaging two busts will net you much in return. If the Lions packages Drew Stanton and Jordan Dizon, what do you think they could get for those two right now?

[woodbuck27]

If I'm the GM I still want nothing to do with Vick

I'd certainly go for a Brohm for Vick trade if that were a possibility. I see potential in all that athleticism.

I'm on the fence on this one B. That's easy because I'll be shocked if TT brings him in. :D

[Fritz]

I would be shocked only if Thompson brought Vick in at the expense of Brohm or Flynn.

[MJZiggy]

Who trades for a package of busts? I just don't see TT packaging picks to get rid of a 2nd round pick. Who else are you planning on giving away?

Vick is athletic. I see him more as a track star-type player. He's fast but what else does he offer as a running back? There is a learned element to being an NFL running back and it takes time to learn. How much time do you want to give him to figure out which holes to hit, which linemen to follow, how to stay on his feet and HOLD ONTO THE BALL when some linebacker with a running start tries to remove his spleen? How many games you willing to sacrifice for that learning curve, remembering he won't have an offseason to learn it? If you're getting rid of Brohm to make room for him or another kid with years of potential, I think you're doing the team a disservice. His only immediate contribution is as a quarterback. Otherwise he's just a track star and you can have him.

MJ. You won't see M. Vick in the Green and Gold. As to packaging Brohm with another or others. A GM does this if he see's a positive potential to improve the team weighing various criteria.

Your the GM MJ. If you could trade for M. Vick straight up and the cost was Brian Brohm? Wouldn't you swing that trade in a heartbeat?

GO PACK GO!

Oh hell no!

[woodbuck27]

These are all interesting scenarios; thanks for the feedback.

My opinion at this point is that Vick's a guy who's been out of football for a couple of years and was never considered a pinpoint passer or a guy who would fit particularly well in a west coast offense. When you combine those qualities with his baggage - even if he's Mr. Reformed he'll still bring a circus - I just don't see that signing him helps the Packers at the QB position - not for a while, anyway.

However, if the Packers did bring him on board, I would consider giving him the spot a third tight end might otherwise have and then use Vick maybe five or six times a game in some kind of option formation, or as Patler suggested, perhaps as a kick returner, since Blackmon is supposedly better at punt returns than kick returns.

I'd be hesitant to give up on Brohm or give away Flynn, and Woody, I don't think that packaging two busts will net you much in return. If the Lions packages Drew Stanton and Jordan Dizon, what do you think they could get for those two right now?

I never suggested packaging Brohm with any other bust. I'm not even sure Brohm is a bust yet. I'm suggesting that instead of just cutting Brohm we may land some future value out of his high draft position if we package him in a trade that would satisfy us and the trade partner. Packaged trades are made regularly in other Pro sports such as baseball and hockey and not so much in the NFL, yet not inconceivable.

[retailguy]

Who trades for a bust?



Aren't you the one who is usually suggesting that we can't claim "bust" too soon?

It is only the guys second season, we must be patient! Ted does not make mistakes. Brohm will be "world class" very soon. He's destined to be the best backup quarterback in the league. Just you wait.

[MJZiggy]

Who trades for a bust?



Aren't you the one who is usually suggesting that we can't claim "bust" too soon?

It is only the guys second season, we must be patient! Ted does not make mistakes. Brohm will be "world class" very soon. He's destined to be the best backup quarterback in the league. Just you wait.

Not my word. The previous post said that he was "screaming I'm a bust" so we should trade him.

[SnakeLH2006]

Why repeat the same topic...and fuck Brohm....

Fritz you are Snake's Fave, but alas without Drew giving you a good rub down on your old ass arthritic joints you are not the same:

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=18193

[Fritz]

Well, Snake, as the man with size, speed, brains, surely you have the connections that will get me all hooked up with Drew so I can return to my former prime-time level.

Just a side note, by the way. Ol' Fritz is a great guy, and handsome, too, but has never been able to "close the deal" with a woman. So if you can not only set me up with Drew, Snakey, but also be sure she's willing to head to my hotel room in Green Bay, that would be much appreciated.