Starting O-line: Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Barbre

[gbpackfan]

Discuss....

[gbpackfan]

Okay, I'll start. Great topic, whoever posted it!

Wells has got to be destroyed by this decision. He may want out. You don't start for a couple years and then fight your way back from an injury just to be satisified sitting the bench. Trade?

Gaicomalsdjoaisdalskmdmimnini is still probably another year away. But if Barbre f's up, he'll be ready.

[Lurker64]

Well, Wells may be unhappy and may have value in a trade, but our only other backup Cs are Preston (who stinks on ice) and Dietrich-Smith (who is really raw). So I suppose it comes down to how much he's worth versus how unhappy he is vs. how much confidence the coaches have in Dietrich-Smith.

[pittstang5]

Okay, I'll start. Great topic, whoever posted it!

Wells has got to be destroyed by this decision. He may want out. You don't start for a couple years and then fight your way back from an injury just to be satisified sitting the bench. Trade?

Gaicomalsdjoaisdalskmdmimnini is still probably another year away. But if Barbre f's up, he'll be ready.

Yeah, I mentioned in another post that Wells has to know that he's as good as gone. If he could back up a guard position, he might have a chance, but he hasn't played there since Sherman was coach. I don't know if he'd be any better than what they have now at any of the guard spots. It's a numbers game, looks like Scotty's gonna lose out.

Trade? - I'd love to get something for him, but every team has got to think that the Packers aren't going to keep a back-up center - or rather a player that can only play center. They'll wait to pick him up as a free agent.

Plus, are there any teams out there that need a decent starting center?

[Lurker64]

Plus, are there any teams out there that need a decent starting center?

The Vikings...

[The Shadow]

Why not this :
LT: Clifton (backup Meredith - or Colledge)
LG: Colledge (backup Lang)
C: Spitz (backup Wells)
RG: Sitton (backup Spitz - Wells would then play center))
RT: Barbre (backup Giacomini)

That's an O line corp of only 9.

[Fred's Slacks]

I don't think Wells is as good as gone. I think the battle is on now for the backup C position between Wells, Preston and Dietrick-Smith. May the best man win. Ideally I think they'd like their backup to be able to play all the interior positions but I think they are fine without it because they can always move Spitz around and insert the backup into the center spot. I think the final roster will look like this:

RT Barbre Giaco
RG Sitton Spitz
C Spitz Wells/Preston/Dietrick-Smith
LG College Spitz Lang
LT Clifton College Meridith

I know what MM said about not sliding people around as much but when it comes down to it you can only keep 8 or 9 OL. You have to be flexible if you have any developmental prospects and you have to keep your best guys.

[Fred's Slacks]

Nice post Shadow. Beat me to it.

[gbpackfan]

After thinking it over, I firmly believe that Wells will be on the roster come Sept. 6th. Spitz will move over if either G is hurt and Wells will come in and play C. Gia will back up at RT and Colledge will back up at LT. And if Clifton gets hurt, that will again shift the line for Wells to come in.

I agree with the other posters, here is the depth chart (1st and 2nd string)

LT Clifton, Colledge
LG Colledge, Spitz
C Spitz, Wells
RG Sitton, Spitz
RT Barbre, Gia

[Partial]

So, if Wells is a top 3-4 linemen, does that mean that Spitz clearly is a top 3-4 linemen as well, and Sitton too? That speaks volumes about the quality of the line play seen thus far. It has been very impressive thus far in PS.

[Partial]

So, if Wells is a top 3-4 linemen, does that mean that Spitz clearly is a top 3-4 linemen as well, and Sitton too? That speaks volumes about the quality of the line play seen thus far. It has been very impressive thus far in PS.

[Lurker64]

So, if Wells is a top 3-4 linemen, does that mean that Spitz clearly is a top 3-4 linemen as well, and Sitton too? That speaks volumes about the quality of the line play seen thus far. It has been very impressive thus far in PS.

Definitely, in a reverse of the beginning of the Thompson era, the strength of the offensive line is the interior. It will be interesting to see how we replace our left tackle next year, and whether Giacomini or Barbre can be good at RT (though they don't have to do much to be better than Tauscher was last year).

[Partial]

So, if Wells is a top 3-4 linemen, does that mean that Spitz clearly is a top 3-4 linemen as well, and Sitton too? That speaks volumes about the quality of the line play seen thus far. It has been very impressive thus far in PS.

Definitely, in a reverse of the beginning of the Thompson era, the strength of the offensive line is the interior. It will be interesting to see how we replace our left tackle next year, and whether Giacomini or Barbre can be good at RT (though they don't have to do much to be better than Wahle was last year).

I think you're writing off Clifton. Dude looks like an all-pro once again and is evidently as healthy as he has been in years. Guys a fighter and could very well retire a Packer. After all, lifelong Packers should :?

[Lurker64]

I think you're writing off Clifton. Dude looks like an all-pro once again and is evidently as healthy as he has been in years. Guys a fighter and could very well retire a Packer. After all, lifelong Packers should :?

Oh, there's nothing wrong with Clifton for this year (though his run blocking will probably not be great), it's just that he's 33, in a contract year, has many surgeries behind him, and he's on the downside of his career.

I could very much see Clifton decide to hang it up after this year, or Thompson deciding that with all the contracts for the younger guys he has to deal with this year (Collins, Kampman, and Colledge notably) that Clifton's contract is less of a priority.

Regardless, he's not going to play too many more years and replacing Clifton is going to be an important (and difficult) job for TT.

[BobDobbs]

Overall, I'm excited to see the new line. It's definitely a burlier, meaner line. We are surely going to see some mistakes due to inexperience, but eventually these guys will get all the blitzes, stunts, and techniques they can stomach thrown at them and their recognition will improve. If we can keep healthy we should have a better line than last year, but our pass protection at the right tackle spot will slip from years past.

As far as Wells, the Packers are a better team with both Spitz and Wells on the roster. The only reason to trade him would be if the offer was too good to pass up. I'd say a third round pick. I don't think anyone is going to offer a three. Wells isn't going to like being a backup, but he's a warrior and intelligent. He understands that injuries are part of the game and he may very well see significant playing time.

The elephant in the thread here is Tony Moll. He's been the number two left tackle in camp, there is a very good chance that he is on the regular season roster. It's a terrible thought, but I think it is the truth. He can back up a whole bunch of spots and he's got experience in the system. Actually that's another reason for keeping Wells. Having him on the team means that there is less of a chance that Moll will play.

If the Packers keep 9 OL instead of ten they clearly keep Wells and Giacomini. Then I think there is one spot for either Preston or Dietrich-Smith. No idea there. And then one for Moll or Meredith. I think they go with Moll and hope that Meredith clears waivers.

Overall, we may have finally recovered from losing Wahle, Flanagan, Rivera in one fell swoop. The rest of the offense is ready to go. If this group can even play at a middlin' professional level we will score ALOT of points this season.

[BobDobbs]

Never mind the trade talk. It looks like our backup center saw it coming and has been working on his own backup plan.

http://www.scottwellsdance.com/

[gbpackfan]

That looks really, really gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that! :shock: :P

[pittstang5]

After thinking it over, I firmly believe that Wells will be on the roster come Sept. 6th. Spitz will move over if either G is hurt and Wells will come in and play C. Gia will back up at RT and Colledge will back up at LT. And if Clifton gets hurt, that will again shift the line for Wells to come in.

I agree with the other posters, here is the depth chart (1st and 2nd string)

LT Clifton, Colledge
LG Colledge, Spitz
C Spitz, Wells
RG Sitton, Spitz
RT Barbre, Gia

Good thought there...something I didn't even think about. The versatility of Spitz...well all the other players, may keep Wells around.

[Fritz]

I would definitely advocate keeping Wells. If a guard gets hurt Spitz can slide over.

How about this? - Clifton, Colledge, Lang, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, Giacomini, Barbre - and Meredith.

I just have too many bad Tony Moll memories.

[pbmax]

So, if Wells is a top 3-4 linemen, does that mean that Spitz clearly is a top 3-4 linemen as well, and Sitton too? That speaks volumes about the quality of the line play seen thus far. It has been very impressive thus far in PS.
It probably means Spitz and Colledge grade out ahead of him and possibly Clifton. So he is one of the best five. But the drop to Sitton is probably small when Wells is graded as a guard. At that position, being nearly even, the edge goes to size.

I hope they both prove worthy of it. It will be nice to get bigger, but Wells was dependable.

From McCarthy's post practice comments, it sounds like Sitton was the first domino to fall. They saw what they wanted in him, so wanted to find a spot for him. Then it was a matter of who starts at center.

[pbmax]

I would definitely advocate keeping Wells. If a guard gets hurt Spitz can slide over.

How about this? - Clifton, Colledge, Lang, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, Giacomini, Barbre - and Meredith.

I just have too many bad Tony Moll memories.
Understandable, but Meredith has yet (with maybe one day's exception) to force the coaches to give him #2 reps ahead of Moll. Moll can also play anywhere but center if need be.

[Bretsky]

This starting lineup makes all the sense in the world.

Short term it's probably about the same quality as with Wells at Center as Barbre will go through some growning pains. Long term this was an easy choice.

But if we want to have a stable, above average OL going forward, we can't have Wells anchoring the middle. Too many DL get a huge push on him and collapse the pocket against the run and pass.

I think there is a possibility TT is looking around for somebody to give him a 4th for Wells but I doubt anybody would bit on that. So we keep Wells as a stable backup........which is really what he should be.

[KYPack]

This starting lineup makes all the sense in the world.

Short term it's probably about the same quality as with Wells at Center as Barbre will go through some growning pains. Long term this was an easy choice.

But if we want to have a stable, above average OL going forward, we can't have Wells anchoring the middle. Too many DL get a huge push on him and collapse the pocket against the run and pass.

I think there is a possibility TT is looking around for somebody to give him a 4th for Wells but I doubt anybody would bit on that. So we keep Wells as a stable backup........which is really what he should be.

Well, this is one of a very few points that I totally used to disagree with ya, B. Scott Wells was a better center than Jason Spitz. Yes, Scott had trouble with the Williams boys, Wilfork, etc. So does Olin Kruetz. Jason Spitz is taller, but Scott is very strong and quicker than Spitz.

Spitz also had trouble in another area. He was a lousy snapper. In the 3 games he started last season at C, he had a bad snap in each game. He really had trouble in the shotgun. He was so worried about bad snaps, he made a poor transition from snapping to blocking. For those reasons, I've always felt Scott was our best solution at center.

Until this year. Spitz has made a quantum leap in his play in the shotgun. Against Buffalo, he looked like a different player. He made perfect, quick and accurate snaps every play in the gun. Moreover, his transistion to his blocking assignment was fast and seamless.

So I give up.

Start Spitz. Keep Wells. With Wells we have back-up at center and if Sitton goes down, Spitzy moves back to RG. We need Scott way more than we need a 4th or 5th choice in the 2010 draft.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wells has got to be destroyed by this decision. He may want out. You don't start for a couple years and then fight your way back from an injury just to be satisified sitting the bench. Trade?

Tough shit, he's a below average starter.

No way would I trade him. Think about it, his presence gives the team quality depth from end to end, since they have a couple guys who can change positions. There is a big drop off from Wells to the next best O lineman.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As far as Wells, the Packers are a better team with both Spitz and Wells on the roster. The only reason to trade him would be if the offer was too good to pass up. I'd say a third round pick.

I wouldn't trade Wells for a #3. If ANY player on the offensive line gets injured, they NEED Wells to start. You know it is going to happen. Why jeopardize the season? The other backups are bums, or in the case of Lang and Giacomini, not ready to play.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Moll can also play anywhere but center if need be.

Depending on what you mean by "play".

[Tarlam!]

We need Scott way more than we need a 4th or 5th choice in the 2010 draft.

Truer words were never spoken.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I would definitely advocate keeping Wells. If a guard gets hurt Spitz can slide over.

How about this? - Clifton, Colledge, Lang, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, Giacomini, Barbre - and Meredith.

I just have too many bad Tony Moll memories.

I'm with you. We have insurance if Clifton gets hurt--move Colledge to LT, Spitz to LG, and Wells to C. I'd like to see a developmental type kept. I think Moll has tapped out his potential.

[rbaloha1]

Outside of Clifton, the line is young, tough and athletic. Its a collection of players that could be together for 3-5 seasons.

Expect better inside runs and cutback lanes due to the ability of the linemen to reach the second level and stay engaged with their target.

[bobblehead]

sorry if i'm rehashing, but wells is the backup for 4 positions effectively.

Backup center.
Backup LG (spitz over, wells center)
Backup RG (same deal)
Backup LT (college over, spitz over, wells center)
Only the backup RT will be giacominni, otherwise wells is in.

[Pugger]

Yes, what is with the coaches' fascination with Moll? :?:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yes, what is with the coaches' fascination with Moll? :?:

He has started some games. Sometimes he did OK, especially at guard. Unfortunately he didn't get better.

If a player other than center goes down in the middle of a game, expect to see Tony the Tiger trot out there because of his experience.

[Patler]

Yes, what is with the coaches' fascination with Moll? :?:

He has started some games. Sometimes he did OK, especially at guard. Unfortunately he didn't get better.

If a player other than center goes down in the middle of a game, expect to see Tony the Tiger trot out there because of his experience.

Tony Moll is an interesting subject. The guy does have 18 starts in his 3 years at GB. '07 was sort of a wasted year for him due to injury. The coaches like something about him, but they seemed to lose patience with him last year when he played poorly replacing Tauscher.

I don't know what to think about his prospects this year. He could be the odd man out with the Packers keeping Wells, Lang, Giacomini and Meredith as backups. On the other hand, Meredith apparently has shown little possibility of contributing this year. Other teams probably see that too. The Packers might take the risk of trying to get him through waivers and on to the practice squad, in which case Moll again would make the final 53. These next two games are big for him.

[bobblehead]

sorry if i'm rehashing, but wells is the backup for 4 positions effectively.

Backup center.
Backup LG (spitz over, wells center)
Backup RG (same deal)
Backup LT (college over, spitz over, wells center)
Only the backup RT will be giacominni, otherwise wells is in.

http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/59085247.html

Shameless tooting of my own horn...and yes, I know that a ton of you basically said similar, but this article in a nutshell says exactly what I posted awhile back.

[Dabaddestbear]

just that much more interesting.