Packers Cards Live game thread

[BallHawk]

Who was our resident Ruvell fanboy? I need to have a word with him.

Yes?

[gbgary]

last year finley looked a bust. this year he's keith jackson.

Only idiots call players busts after one season. finley and others are proof why you give players 3 years to prove themselves.

good thing i didn't call him a bust.

[pbmax]

last year finley looked a bust. this year he's keith jackson.
Its something to keep in mind the next time some sock puppet starts to tell you that teams that draft on potential need to consider production more. He is still the definition of raw.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

14 19 258 yards 3 touch for ARod.

Smith undercuts for the pick

Lot's of undercuts and trail cover in Capers D

Exactly, this type of defense can't work. Capers has got to go.

[pbmax]

Sure, things look good, but this is just another game that Arod hasn't led a 4th quarter comeback. :(
:lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

last year finley looked a bust. this year he's keith jackson.

Only idiots call players busts after one season. finley and others are proof why you give players 3 years to prove themselves.

good thing i didn't call him a bust.

good. hopefully others are learning.

Otherwise a certain HOF MVP QB woulda been a bust.

[pbmax]

DRC burnt more times 2nite than toast
Elvis Toast Patterson, CB for the Giants in mid eighties. Tremendous nickname. Mediocre CB. :D

[Tyrone Bigguns]

last year finley looked a bust. this year he's keith jackson.
Its something to keep in mind the next time some sock puppet starts to tell you that teams that draft on potential need to consider production more. He is still the definition of raw.

well, that doesn't work on finley, but we get your point. He had production and was raw.

Some of us are old enough to remember the old school way...players didn't get much pt there first year, and weren't expected to...maybe a first.

and, certainly not the qb. TT played it perfectly with arod.

[falco]

and, certainly not the qb. TT played it perfectly with arod.

QFT

Unfortunately, most coaches don't have the luxury of letting a rookie sit 3 years....

[pbmax]

Who was our resident Ruvell fanboy? I need to have a word with him.

Yes?
Get your guy on the horn and into the Hutson Center to practice those holds ALL weekend!

[VegasPackFan]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

[Rastak]

Well, we're in an intermission here and I'd like to say I'm happy with what gone on but I can't. You guys are putting up some serious beatdowns in preseason....yikes.....


1) I hereby declare I am worried.
2) I declare you preseason champs.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

DRC burnt more times 2nite than toast
Elvis Toast Patterson, CB for the Giants in mid eighties. Tremendous nickname. Mediocre CB. :D

thing is, drc is a pretty dang good, young cb.

Toast: 10 years in the nfl...mediocre is a bit harsh. 2 on SB winning teams.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

[VegasPackFan]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

[gbgary]

Well, we're in an intermission here and I'd like to say I'm happy with what gone on but I can't. You guys are putting up some serious beatdowns in preseason....yikes.....


1) I hereby declare I am worried.
2) I declare you preseason champs.

that's the jimmy johnson trophy i think. remember the boys went 4-0 in preseason his first year and then went out and had a 1-15 season. lol

[pbmax]

last year finley looked a bust. this year he's keith jackson.
Its something to keep in mind the next time some sock puppet starts to tell you that teams that draft on potential need to consider production more. He is still the definition of raw.

well, that doesn't work on finley, but we get your point. He had production and was raw.

Some of us are old enough to remember the old school way...players didn't get much pt there first year, and weren't expected to...maybe a first.

and, certainly not the qb. TT played it perfectly with arod.
The best metric for success in the NFL out of college is multiple years of starting with production. Finley had production but was only in school two years (maybe 3 with redshirt?-unsure).

This applies to Rodgers as well, who went juco before he got to Cal. He did not have as many starts as typical D1 QB prospects do. Didn't he come out his junior year as well?

As Ty said, T2 and M3 brought the old school sit on the bench and learn approach to bear on Rodgers and this, I think, has largely overcome whatever lack of starting experience he might have had from college.

[denverYooper]

I'm a little bit concerned about some of the runs they gave up. Just over 7 yards per carry in the first half. Hopefully that's not a heel.

Hard to complain too much when your 1's are up 38-10 in the first half, tho.

[pbmax]

Well, we're in an intermission here and I'd like to say I'm happy with what gone on but I can't. You guys are putting up some serious beatdowns in preseason....yikes.....


1) I hereby declare I am worried.
2) I declare you preseason champs.

Number 2 is just downright mean Ras. You know that from experience :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

[VegasPackFan]

Leinart looking to at least impress enough to get a new slew of Sun Devil Coed tail

[pbmax]

Toast: 10 years in the nfl...mediocre is a bit harsh. 2 on SB winning teams.
True, but he had steep learning curve. It wasn't pretty sometimes. And the NFC East was no picnic for corners back then. San Fran made his pay too, but that wasn't exactly unique to Elvis...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

last year finley looked a bust. this year he's keith jackson.
Its something to keep in mind the next time some sock puppet starts to tell you that teams that draft on potential need to consider production more. He is still the definition of raw.

well, that doesn't work on finley, but we get your point. He had production and was raw.

Some of us are old enough to remember the old school way...players didn't get much pt there first year, and weren't expected to...maybe a first.

and, certainly not the qb. TT played it perfectly with arod.
The best metric for success in the NFL out of college is multiple years of starting with production. Finley had production but was only in school two years (maybe 3 with redshirt?-unsure).

This applies to Rodgers as well, who went juco before he got to Cal. He did not have as many starts as typical D1 QB prospects do. Didn't he come out his junior year as well?

As Ty said, T2 and M3 brought the old school sit on the bench and learn approach to bear on Rodgers and this, I think, has largely overcome whatever lack of starting experience he might have had from college.

That is near impossible for most players at good schools. Very few players at Texas, USC, etc. are gonna start more than 2 years.

[VegasPackFan]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

He was playing with nothing. And they had those really gay uni's.

[pbmax]

Inronic or no?

I'm in state, and can't get a television picture as digital has gone out with bad weather. So I am now watching the AZ feed on broadband....

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

He was playing with nothing. And they had those really gay uni's.

Ah, excuses.

Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.

[falco]

Even our backups play with a swagger.

[VegasPackFan]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

He was playing with nothing. And they had those really gay uni's.

Ah, excuses.

Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.

He certainly was established as a very good talent who got stuck on a bad NFL team. Did he play in the USFL before that?

[pbmax]

last year finley looked a bust. this year he's keith jackson.
Its something to keep in mind the next time some sock puppet starts to tell you that teams that draft on potential need to consider production more. He is still the definition of raw.

well, that doesn't work on finley, but we get your point. He had production and was raw.

Some of us are old enough to remember the old school way...players didn't get much pt there first year, and weren't expected to...maybe a first.

and, certainly not the qb. TT played it perfectly with arod.
The best metric for success in the NFL out of college is multiple years of starting with production. Finley had production but was only in school two years (maybe 3 with redshirt?-unsure).

This applies to Rodgers as well, who went juco before he got to Cal. He did not have as many starts as typical D1 QB prospects do. Didn't he come out his junior year as well?

As Ty said, T2 and M3 brought the old school sit on the bench and learn approach to bear on Rodgers and this, I think, has largely overcome whatever lack of starting experience he might have had from college.

That is near impossible for most players at good schools. Very few players at Texas, USC, etc. are gonna start more than 2 years.
Absolutely, which is why scouts and GMs must make do with imperfect information from about pick 15 on. :D

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Folks, pay attention to Leinart.

Not saying Brohm will improve, but there is another lesson to be learned.

[VegasPackFan]

Does Capers wear a toupee? He has The Donald hair!

[pittstang5]

AH!!! Two Fumbles and we can't get one. Let's GO!!!

[denverYooper]

Does Capers wear a toupee? He has The Donald hair!

:lol:

[pbmax]

Can't the punters hold?
They don't know which one will make it.

[VegasPackFan]

YAY for the Cards. Celebrate and get excited while your first team just got smoked for a half.

[arcilite]

backups are not impressing me

[pittstang5]

WHY ARE WE NOT BLITZING ON 3rd DOWN. THEY HAVE CONVERTED ON THREE STRAIGHT 3rd and longs!!!!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

He was playing with nothing. And they had those really gay uni's.

Ah, excuses.

Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.

He certainly was established as a very good talent who got stuck on a bad NFL team. Did he play in the USFL before that?

He played 2 seasons in the USFL..the first of which he missed 6 games.

Playing in the USFL certainly doesn't give you cred for being established or being good.

Young was not established, he wasn't proven. If he had shown something in TB you think they woulda traded him? They took Vinnie after 2 years and the Niners didn't even after trade a first for him.

You are simply being obstinate.

[denverYooper]

Can't the punters hold?
They don't know which one will make it.

I think they're considering not carrying a punter.

[falco]

When did Bedard become so annoying?

[VegasPackFan]

With MIke Goldberg announcing, if you close your eyes you can imagine you are listening to UFC.

Big fun.

[VegasPackFan]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

He was playing with nothing. And they had those really gay uni's.

Ah, excuses.

Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.

He certainly was established as a very good talent who got stuck on a bad NFL team. Did he play in the USFL before that?

He played 2 seasons in the USFL..the first of which he missed 6 games.

Playing in the USFL certainly doesn't give you cred for being established or being good.

Young was not established, he wasn't proven. If he had shown something in TB you think they woulda traded him? They took Vinnie after 2 years and the Niners didn't even after trade a first for him.

You are simply being obstinate.

I have Norwegian blood - what do you expect?!

[pbmax]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

[VegasPackFan]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

He is the voice of the UFC

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

He was playing with nothing. And they had those really gay uni's.

Ah, excuses.

Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.

He certainly was established as a very good talent who got stuck on a bad NFL team. Did he play in the USFL before that?

He played 2 seasons in the USFL..the first of which he missed 6 games.

Playing in the USFL certainly doesn't give you cred for being established or being good.

Young was not established, he wasn't proven. If he had shown something in TB you think they woulda traded him? They took Vinnie after 2 years and the Niners didn't even after trade a first for him.

You are simply being obstinate.

I have Norwegian blood - what do you expect?!

Didn't know that about norwegians.

Hot as AZ in Vegas right now..was 112 2day.

[denverYooper]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Goldberg

[arcilite]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

He is the voice of the UFC

thought that was joe rogan?

[VegasPackFan]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Not really. He was terrible in Tampa. 3-16 record, 11 tds-21 ints.

He was playing with nothing. And they had those really gay uni's.

Ah, excuses.

Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.

He certainly was established as a very good talent who got stuck on a bad NFL team. Did he play in the USFL before that?

He played 2 seasons in the USFL..the first of which he missed 6 games.

Playing in the USFL certainly doesn't give you cred for being established or being good.

Young was not established, he wasn't proven. If he had shown something in TB you think they woulda traded him? They took Vinnie after 2 years and the Niners didn't even after trade a first for him.

You are simply being obstinate.

I have Norwegian blood - what do you expect?!

Didn't know that about norwegians.

Hot as AZ in Vegas right now..was 112 2day.

Oh yeah - its bad. (The Norwegian blood I mean)

[falco]

Can't the punters hold?
They don't know which one will make it.

I think they're considering not carrying a punter.

First team hasn't punted yet.

[VegasPackFan]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

He is the voice of the UFC

thought that was joe rogan?

Goldberg = play by play
Rogan = commentator

[Rastak]

Well, we're in an intermission here and I'd like to say I'm happy with what gone on but I can't. You guys are putting up some serious beatdowns in preseason....yikes.....


1) I hereby declare I am worried.
2) I declare you preseason champs.

Number 2 is just downright mean Ras. You know that from experience :lol:


That's true but I was serious about #1.

[mraynrand]

Vegas: Young was 12-8 as as starter in five years with a QB rating around 100 with the Niners before taking over. He had 7 years in the league and played most of his ball for a horrible Tampa team. San Fran knew what they had in Young and were perfectly comfortable letting Montana go. They knew way more about Young than the Pack knew about Rodgers. Young was completely established as a very good starter in the NFL before Montana left.

[pbmax]

The USFL was a better training ground than any other pro or semi pro league that has followed it. The Browns pulled Mike Johnson (Pro Bowl LB), Kevin Mack (Pro Bowl RB) and Frank Minnfield (near Pro Bowl corner) out of that league.

Young's reviews were mixed and most of the discussion centered around if a team could keep him in the pocket and read a defense. He was smart, but it hadn't been his MO. Course, with the Bucs, he often was running for his life.

Montana was hurt often enough after Young arrived that Young was a known commodity by the time they let Joe Cool go.

[pittstang5]

Is it me or does Brohm do something weird with his arm before he releases.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

He is the voice of the UFC

thought that was joe rogan?

Goldberg = play by play
Rogan = commentator

Play by play?

"he's hittin him, he's kickin him, he's kickin him, he's hittin him."

[packers11]

jackson carted off... ankle injury?

[pbmax]

Raji looked good there on the sweep.

[VegasPackFan]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

He is the voice of the UFC

thought that was joe rogan?

Goldberg = play by play
Rogan = commentator

Play by play?

"he's hittin him, he's kickin him, he's kickin him, he's hittin him."

EXACTLY, but with verve.

[falco]

Bishop finally makes a play... :lol:

[denverYooper]

Who is Mike Goldberg? Local guy?

He is the voice of the UFC

thought that was joe rogan?

Goldberg = play by play
Rogan = commentator

Play by play?

"he's hittin him, he's kickin him, he's kickin him, he's hittin him."

OH! Elbow to the head! That's gotta hurt!

[pbmax]

Is it me or does Brohm do something weird with his arm before he releases.
Yeah, on the deep ball it almost looks like he lifts it high during his motion forward.

But that throw was on target. Jake Allen was covered though.

[denverYooper]

All of these 3rd down conversions, playing with mostly 2nd string D... feels like the lean times of ought-eight.

[pittstang5]

This is irritating! They should not be converting 3rd and 13's. 3rd and 11's......I know it's preseason and 2nd string...but to work so hard on 1st and 2nd down, then to give it all up.

[retailguy]

When did Bedard become so annoying?

Two days after his birth, his mother began her frustrations when she couldn't get him to stop whining.

It's been bad ever since.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vegas: Young was 12-8 as as starter in five years with a QB rating around 100 with the Niners before taking over. He had 7 years in the league and played most of his ball for a horrible Tampa team. San Fran knew what they had in Young and were perfectly comfortable letting Montana go. They knew way more about Young than the Pack knew about Rodgers. Young was completely established as a very good starter in the NFL before Montana left.

If you are going to jump in, try at least to follow along.

The original issue was that he said teams don't transition from iconic HOFs smoothly, to which is said the Niners did.

So, i was right.

Then the issue was that young was established. I clearly was talking about young when he was acquired..as he was acquired to be the backup and eventual successor...and when acquired he wasn't established. Nor had he proven anything.

[pittstang5]

jackson carted off... ankle injury?

Uh?

[Iron Mike]

jesus christ....when did charlie weiss start coaching the pack?

Mike, hit the treadmill, you gotta a family now.

Are any of you getting the commercial where Leroy Butler show off his man boobs???http://www.freewebby.com/adult-smilies/boobies.gif

[pbmax]

Well Kapinos would seem to now have a lead in the punting battle. I wonder if he can hold?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

jesus christ....when did charlie weiss start coaching the pack?

Mike, hit the treadmill, you gotta a family now.

Are any of you getting the commercial where Leroy Butler show off his man boobs???http://www.freewebby.com/adult-smilies/boobies.gif

Moobs.

[retailguy]

Vegas: Young was 12-8 as as starter in five years with a QB rating around 100 with the Niners before taking over. He had 7 years in the league and played most of his ball for a horrible Tampa team. San Fran knew what they had in Young and were perfectly comfortable letting Montana go. They knew way more about Young than the Pack knew about Rodgers. Young was completely established as a very good starter in the NFL before Montana left.

If you are going to jump in, try at least to follow along.

The original issue was that he said teams don't transition from iconic HOFs smoothly, to which is said the Niners did.

So, i was right.

Then the issue was that young was established. I clearly was talking about young when he was acquired..as he was acquired to be the backup and eventual successor...and when acquired he wasn't established. Nor had he proven anything.


http://www.gadgetcool.com/images/gadgets/thumbs/bbutton.jpg

[pbmax]

Toribio just got collapsed by a double-team.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vegas: Young was 12-8 as as starter in five years with a QB rating around 100 with the Niners before taking over. He had 7 years in the league and played most of his ball for a horrible Tampa team. San Fran knew what they had in Young and were perfectly comfortable letting Montana go. They knew way more about Young than the Pack knew about Rodgers. Young was completely established as a very good starter in the NFL before Montana left.

If you are going to jump in, try at least to follow along.

The original issue was that he said teams don't transition from iconic HOFs smoothly, to which is said the Niners did.

So, i was right.

Then the issue was that young was established. I clearly was talking about young when he was acquired..as he was acquired to be the backup and eventual successor...and when acquired he wasn't established. Nor had he proven anything.


http://www.gadgetcool.com/images/gadgets/thumbs/bbutton.jpg

what a surprise. you add nothing of value.

care to go back and post his original post. then, the forum can see what a piece of shit you really are.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

don't bother retail, i did it for you.


Tyrone Bigguns wrote:
VegasPackFan wrote:
I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.


Niners. HOF to HOF

Now, folks, who has the agenda, who is bullshit. You are retail.

[VegasPackFan]

They need to watch the helmet to helmet stuff. We dont need guys suspended for that.

[green_bowl_packer]

Lights Out Lansanah

[pittstang5]

Ruled a fumbled...recovered by Pack.

This will be overturned. No way it's a fumble.

[pittstang5]

Man..the middle of the field is always open...they need to do something about that.

[gbgary]

They need to watch the helmet to helmet stuff. We dont need guys suspended for that.

i agree but helmet to helmet when people are running at each other is different from a wideout reaching up for a ball and being hammered.

[retailguy]

don't bother retail, i did it for you.


Tyrone Bigguns wrote:
VegasPackFan wrote:
I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.


Niners. HOF to HOF

Now, folks, who has the agenda, who is bullshit. You are retail.

http://batspit.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/babbling.jpg

[Mr. T]

don't bother retail, i did it for you.


Tyrone Bigguns wrote:
VegasPackFan wrote:
I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.


Niners. HOF to HOF

Now, folks, who has the agenda, who is bullshit. You are retail.

"Game Set Match." Lol

Back to your old form....

[Tyrone Bigguns]

don't bother retail, i did it for you.

[quote]Tyrone Bigguns wrote:
VegasPackFan wrote:
I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.


Niners. HOF to HOF

Now, folks, who has the agenda, who is bullshit. You are retail.

http://batspit.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/babbling.jpg[/quote

Waiting for you to show us all the bullshit.

Funny gifs don't change things, just make you look even more petty.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

don't bother retail, i did it for you.


Tyrone Bigguns wrote:
VegasPackFan wrote:
I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.


Niners. HOF to HOF

Now, folks, who has the agenda, who is bullshit. You are retail.

"Game Set Match." Lol

Back to your old form....

It isn't even a challenge, retail just makes it too easy.

[pbmax]

Packers only have 3 penalties? Not bad, seems like more....

[pittstang5]

Nice Conversion.

[pittstang5]

Packers only have 3 penalties? Not bad, seems like more....

REally? It does seem like more.

[mraynrand]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Yes, Young was already established. He had played 5 seasons for SF and started 20, winning 12. Clearly Young was well established as a good starter with a high passer rating is completely obvious before he took over (permanently) for Montana. His two years in Tampa where he played fewer total games (19), for a vastly inferior squad, were a distant memory and irrelevant. Vegas, you were right on the money about Young being established. Clearly, he was far far more established when he took over permanently than Rodgers, who had never started a single game, played in 7 total, and had only thrown for a total of 300 yards or so.

[pbmax]

3rd down conversions look horrible. We were 3-7 and the Cardinals were 9-11.

[pittstang5]

Should have gotten 3 outta that drive, but Brohm's sack didn't help. Still, Crosby should have made that one.

[VegasPackFan]

3rd down conversions look horrible. We were 3-7 and the Cardinals were 9-11.

We'll be lucky if we win any games at all with those stats. :roll:

[pittstang5]

Cardinals really must want to win. Leinhart still in against 3's and 4's. .

[pbmax]

3rd down conversions look horrible. We were 3-7 and the Cardinals were 9-11.

We'll be lucky if we win any games at all with those stats. :roll:
3-7 isn't so bad if you have scoring drives that never get to 3rd down.

[denverYooper]

3rd down conversions look horrible. We were 3-7 and the Cardinals were 9-11.

starters were 3/5.

They were 7/11 on 2nd down conversions.

[pittstang5]

THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD IS OPEN!!!!!!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.

Niners. HOF to HOF.

True, but Young was established already.

Yes, Young was already established. He had played 5 seasons for SF and started 20, winning 12. Clearly Young was well established as a good starter with a high passer rating is completely obvious before he took over (permanently) for Montana. His two years in Tampa where he played fewer total games (19), for a vastly inferior squad, were a distant memory and irrelevant. Vegas, you were right on the money about Young being established. Clearly, he was far far more established when he took over permanently than Rodgers, who had never started a single game, played in 7 total, and had only thrown for a total of 300 yards or so.

I was referring to when they acquired him. And, that is when the transition began..as he started games when montana was out.

As for established, you are giving him way more credit. He had good #s one year and then avg the next. Plus, he was playing with great players around him.

When young took over there were many who weren't sure what they were getting...as the year before he went 5-5..and that is the most relevant stat. 10 games started and 500 record.


It is funny, you can dismiss TB and its inferior club, but then give his new club and it's HOF and pro bowlers surrounding him no credit.

Good starter...my god, you are just playing fast and loose. No one considered him a good starter. They thought he had potential

Lastly, you introduce a strawman. No one was ever talking about a comparison of rodgers to young.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Cardinals really must want to win. Leinhart still in against 3's and 4's. .

They dont' have anybody else. St. Pierre has sucked hard this preseason..they gave him a chance to be the backup and he has played as bad as brohm.

[pittstang5]

yep...the pack will lose this game.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It is preseason, who cares.

The game was over at half.

[pittstang5]

It is preseason, who cares.

The game was over at half.

I care! A win is a Win!

[pittstang5]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It is preseason, who cares.

The game was over at half.

I care! A win is a Win!

No, the don't keep track of preseason games. They dont' matter. If we go 4-0 and then suck in the regular season...are you gonna look back at these games and feel good. Nope.

If we go 0-4 in preseason and go to the playoffs...you won't care.

Either way, you won't care.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

[pbmax]

Brohm has looked better tonight than any other time this year. That is not saying much.

[retailguy]

Waiting for you to show us all the bullshit.






I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.




Niners. HOF to HOF.




True, but Young was established already.





Not really.






He was playing with nothing.





Ah, excuses.
Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.




He certainly was established as a very good talent who got stuck on a bad NFL team.





Young was not established, he wasn't proven.

You are simply being obstinate.


Vegas: Young was 12-8 as as starter in five years with a QB rating around 100 with the Niners before taking over. He had 7 years in the league and played most of his ball for a horrible Tampa team. San Fran knew what they had in Young and were perfectly comfortable letting Montana go. They knew way more about Young than the Pack knew about Rodgers. Young was completely established as a very good starter in the NFL before Montana left.



If you are going to jump in, try at least to follow along.

The original issue was that he said teams don't transition from iconic HOFs smoothly, to which is said the Niners did.

So, i was right.

Then the issue was that young was established. I clearly was talking about young when he was acquired..as he was acquired to be the backup and eventual successor...and when acquired he wasn't established. Nor had he proven anything.




Yes, Young was already established. He had played 5 seasons for SF and started 20, winning 12. Clearly Young was well established as a good starter with a high passer rating is completely obvious before he took over (permanently) for Montana. His two years in Tampa where he played fewer total games (19), for a vastly inferior squad, were a distant memory and irrelevant. Vegas, you were right on the money about Young being established. Clearly, he was far far more established when he took over permanently than Rodgers, who had never started a single game, played in 7 total, and had only thrown for a total of 300 yards or so.



(lots of drivel ommitted)
Lastly, you introduce a strawman. No one was ever talking about a comparison of rodgers to young.

Tyrones 1st post used Montana/Young to contrast Favre/Rodgers.... but, no one compared Rodgers to young?... Yeah. Ok. :roll: I leave you with this image tyrone, and good night my argumentative lil buddy.... :P

http://www.kylepettitart.com/idiot_test.jpg

[pittstang5]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Waiting for you to show us all the bullshit.






I cant help but wonder just how bad AR's injury was last year. He looks amazing this year and I have to think that this may be why it appeared that MM had the handcuffs on him. I think we are seeing something amazing here. Franchises never make the transition from iconic, HF'er QB's smoothly. This is great.




Niners. HOF to HOF.




True, but Young was established already.





Not really.






He was playing with nothing.





Ah, excuses.
Just admit he wasn't established...whatever the reason.




He certainly was established as a very good talent who got stuck on a bad NFL team.





Young was not established, he wasn't proven.

You are simply being obstinate.


Vegas: Young was 12-8 as as starter in five years with a QB rating around 100 with the Niners before taking over. He had 7 years in the league and played most of his ball for a horrible Tampa team. San Fran knew what they had in Young and were perfectly comfortable letting Montana go. They knew way more about Young than the Pack knew about Rodgers. Young was completely established as a very good starter in the NFL before Montana left.



If you are going to jump in, try at least to follow along.

The original issue was that he said teams don't transition from iconic HOFs smoothly, to which is said the Niners did.

So, i was right.

Then the issue was that young was established. I clearly was talking about young when he was acquired..as he was acquired to be the backup and eventual successor...and when acquired he wasn't established. Nor had he proven anything.




Yes, Young was already established. He had played 5 seasons for SF and started 20, winning 12. Clearly Young was well established as a good starter with a high passer rating is completely obvious before he took over (permanently) for Montana. His two years in Tampa where he played fewer total games (19), for a vastly inferior squad, were a distant memory and irrelevant. Vegas, you were right on the money about Young being established. Clearly, he was far far more established when he took over permanently than Rodgers, who had never started a single game, played in 7 total, and had only thrown for a total of 300 yards or so.



(lots of drivel ommitted)
Lastly, you introduce a strawman. No one was ever talking about a comparison of rodgers to young.

Tyrones 1st post used Montana/Young to contrast Favre/Rodgers.... but, no one compared Rodgers to young?... Yeah. Ok. :roll: I leave you with this image tyrone, and good night my argumentative lil buddy.... :P

http://www.kylepettitart.com/idiot_test.jpg

thanx, you just proved what an ass you are.

Did the Niners make the transition from iconic hof? Yes. So, i was right.

The niners brought in young when he wasn't established...and he was there QB of the future and he wasn't established. Sorry, but you are wrong again.

And, when he took over, he wasn't established either. 20 starts in 5 years is not being established. And, he certainly wasn't proven. 12-10 record isn't proven.

If Arod was 12-10 taking over the pack after favre you wouldn't say he was proven.

As for the Niners knowing more...how do you know? How do you know what the packers knew about Arod. You don't.

Buhbye.

[pbmax]

Going for a 2 point conversion. The game that wouldn't end. Review coming up

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

How can you enjoy winning when it doesn't mean anything?

Acceptable? Why? The team's goals are to evaluate players, to work in schemes, get acclimated..that is what preseason is about. You need to change your focus.

And, they won.

[pittstang5]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

How can you enjoy winning when it doesn't mean anything?

Acceptable? Why? The team's goals are to evaluate players, to work in schemes, get acclimated..that is what preseason is about. You need to change your focus.

And, they won.

Ok...maybe dissappointed instead of unacceptable. But anyway - Why can't you just accept that I like winning. What do you care? It's my opinion and I hate to lose. So sorry that I offended you with my own personal view.

[Scott Campbell]

Will Ty make it to the opener?

[Packman_26]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

How can you enjoy winning when it doesn't mean anything?

Acceptable? Why? The team's goals are to evaluate players, to work in schemes, get acclimated..that is what preseason is about. You need to change your focus.

And, they won.
It depends on what you consider "mean anything". When players perform well, you usually win so it does mean something.
Also, if the ultimate goal is the super bowl, wouldn't every game won by the 31 other teams be meaningless?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

How can you enjoy winning when it doesn't mean anything?

Acceptable? Why? The team's goals are to evaluate players, to work in schemes, get acclimated..that is what preseason is about. You need to change your focus.

And, they won.

Ok...maybe dissappointed instead of unacceptable. But anyway - Why can't you just accept that I like winning. What do you care? It's my opinion and I hate to lose. So sorry that I offended you with my own personal view.

I can accept it, but it is pretty hard to understand when we are talking preseason.

Enough seasons have past to show that preseason means nothing.

I just can't fathom how you can take a game seriously when players on both sides that are in the game, making plays won't even be on the rosters when camp breaks.

It is like taking WWE seriously.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

How can you enjoy winning when it doesn't mean anything?

Acceptable? Why? The team's goals are to evaluate players, to work in schemes, get acclimated..that is what preseason is about. You need to change your focus.

And, they won.
It depends on what you consider "mean anything". When players perform well, you usually win so it does mean something.
Also, if the ultimate goal is the super bowl, wouldn't every game won by the 31 other teams be meaningless?

Players that won't be on the squad?

The preseason isn't about winning, not for good clubs. It is about other things. For bad clubs it can be..or about instilling a winning mindset.

There is no correlation between winning in the preseason and regular season. The Lions last year were 4-0 in the preseason.

Pats were 0-4 last year.

Preseason games in regards to winning mean nothing.

[pittstang5]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

How can you enjoy winning when it doesn't mean anything?

Acceptable? Why? The team's goals are to evaluate players, to work in schemes, get acclimated..that is what preseason is about. You need to change your focus.

And, they won.

Ok...maybe dissappointed instead of unacceptable. But anyway - Why can't you just accept that I like winning. What do you care? It's my opinion and I hate to lose. So sorry that I offended you with my own personal view.

I can accept it, but it is pretty hard to understand when we are talking preseason.

Enough seasons have past to show that preseason means nothing.

I just can't fathom how you can take a game seriously when players on both sides that are in the game, making plays won't even be on the rosters when camp breaks.

It is like taking WWE seriously.

Whatever. Obviously you have your view and I have mine. I like to win. It feels good. No sense arguing about it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[quote="Scott Campbell"]Will Ty make it to the opener?[/quote

Against the Bears? Not a chance.

Will be at the Cards game though.

[digitaldean]

Overall, I'm fairly stoked about how the 1st team played.

Crosby's miss was the only downer in the first half. 2nd half miss also was pretty weak.

Amazed at how sloppy AZ quarterbacks were with the football tonight. Warner has a history of it, but man, he and Leinart put it on the ground too much.

Finley is looking like a nice weapon to have come Week 1. The right side of the O-line was OK, but not great tonight.

Sutton looked good, but could have helped his cause more by staying behind Johnson on the 2 pt try. He would have made it easily.

Brohm looked better until the delay of game and sack on the last meaningful drive he had.

Rodgers had impeccable timing tonight. Between his scramble to set up the first TD and the long bomb to Nelson, he was picture perfect.

Let's hope this carries over to Week 1.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This is pathetic. 38-10 lead and 2nd and 3rd and 4th dtring can't keep the lead.

We are playing our 3rd string qb against leinart.

Winning isn't the goal.

You just want to argue. I enjoy winning whether it counts or not. Plus, i;m frustrated that they gave up 28 unanswered points. Preseason or no preseason...it's unacceptable.

Edit...oops - 27

How can you enjoy winning when it doesn't mean anything?

Acceptable? Why? The team's goals are to evaluate players, to work in schemes, get acclimated..that is what preseason is about. You need to change your focus.

And, they won.

Ok...maybe dissappointed instead of unacceptable. But anyway - Why can't you just accept that I like winning. What do you care? It's my opinion and I hate to lose. So sorry that I offended you with my own personal view.

I can accept it, but it is pretty hard to understand when we are talking preseason.

Enough seasons have past to show that preseason means nothing.

I just can't fathom how you can take a game seriously when players on both sides that are in the game, making plays won't even be on the rosters when camp breaks.

It is like taking WWE seriously.

Whatever. Obviously you have your view and I have mine. I like to win. It feels good. No sense arguing about it.

Of course. You are welcome to your view. My point is that your view is going to leave you unnecessarily disappointed for no reason.

The big picture is what is all about. If the pack loses but implement plays, learn about personnel, etc...and that leads to a winning season then that is what really is important.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Overall, I'm fairly stoked about how the 1st team played.

Crosby's miss was the only downer in the first half. 2nd half miss also was pretty weak.

Amazed at how sloppy AZ quarterbacks were with the football tonight. Warner has a history of it, but man, he and Leinart put it on the ground too much.

Finley is looking like a nice weapon to have come Week 1. The right side of the O-line was OK, but not great tonight.

Sutton looked good, but could have helped his cause more by staying behind Johnson on the 2 pt try. He would have made it easily.

Brohm looked better until the delay of game and sack on the last meaningful drive he had.

Rodgers had impeccable timing tonight. Between his scramble to set up the first TD and the long bomb to Nelson, he was picture perfect.

Let's hope this carries over to Week 1.

PB made the point about Crosby's holder. Until that is solved, i think we all should reserve judgement on his performance.

I thought leinart played well.

Rest of your eval seems spot on.

[channtheman]

Overall, I'm fairly stoked about how the 1st team played.

Crosby's miss was the only downer in the first half. 2nd half miss also was pretty weak.

Amazed at how sloppy AZ quarterbacks were with the football tonight. Warner has a history of it, but man, he and Leinart put it on the ground too much.

Finley is looking like a nice weapon to have come Week 1. The right side of the O-line was OK, but not great tonight.

Sutton looked good, but could have helped his cause more by staying behind Johnson on the 2 pt try. He would have made it easily.

Brohm looked better until the delay of game and sack on the last meaningful drive he had.

Rodgers had impeccable timing tonight. Between his scramble to set up the first TD and the long bomb to Nelson, he was picture perfect.

Let's hope this carries over to Week 1.

The only thing Rodgers did wrong was on the first long pass he arced his pass way too much. Driver had beat DRC easily if the pass was on a line leading Driver further to the middle of the field. It is hard to complain about anything when Rodgers played how he did, but that is one thing I noticed. Not sure if you would have been able to see that from the TV. Much easier to see at the game though.

[Iron Mike]

Much easier to see at the game though.

Why would you want to go to the game when you can hang out with Oshkosh peeps in the 'Dale???

http://www.mabelmurphysaz.com/Home.html

[HowardRoark]

Will Ty make it to the opener?

He was given the last roster spot for the pre-season, time will tell if the coaches put him on waivers or not before the opener.

[pbmax]

Amazed at how sloppy AZ quarterbacks were with the football tonight. Warner has a history of it, but man, he and Leinart put it on the ground too much.
Kurt Warner has had problems before with ball security. He isn't the biggest guy at QB and I wouldn't be shocked if his hands were on the smaller side. He also has had hand injuries before.

Leinart looks much more focused, of course, our 2s and 3s weren't resisting as much as you would like.

[vince]

There is no correlation between winning in the preseason and regular season.
...
Preseason games in regards to winning mean nothing.
Actually, there is a strong correlation between winning in the preseason and winning in the regular season - notwithstanding the anomoly of last year's Lions.
http://www.twominutewarning.com/doespreseasonmatter.htm

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There is no correlation between winning in the preseason and regular season.
...
Preseason games in regards to winning mean nothing.
Actually, there is a strong correlation between winning in the preseason and winning in the regular season - notwithstanding the anomoly of last year's Lions.
http://www.twominutewarning.com/doespreseasonmatter.htm


Did you actually read what you posted. Using the term strong. LOL

In the past four years, 7.2 wins for a zero win preseason, 7.4 for 1 win pre, 8.5 for 2, 7.7 or 3, 8 for 4.

So, i guess we want to split for the preseason. LOL

they have data for 11 years...that is a pretty small subset.

Even for that the spread on avg is 1.7 wins.

Good teams: Again, the most amount of wins the next year was for those that win 2 games in the preseason, and the spread for the avg wins was .8 wins.

More relevant is for teams that that won less than 7..US.

Holy schnikes....teams that win zero preseason avg 6.6 wins in the regular season, while teams that win 4 preseason games win....WAIT FOR IT, WAIT FOR IT...6.2.

Please Pack...don't win again.

This exercise if pretty worthless as they don't even mention the obvious advantage of scheduling...nor do they factor in your division, ie, going 4 and 0 in the preseason and then let's say facing Giants, boys, eagles..or the opposite....0-4 and being in the rams division.

[Partial]

I agree with Ty, if the data he posts is true. That is horrible data for making a case.

[vince]

There is no correlation between winning in the preseason and regular season.
...
Preseason games in regards to winning mean nothing.
Actually, there is a strong correlation between winning in the preseason and winning in the regular season - notwithstanding the anomoly of last year's Lions.
http://www.twominutewarning.com/doespreseasonmatter.htm


Did you actually read what you posted. Using the term strong. LOL

...

They have data for 11 years...that is a pretty small subset.

Even for that the spread on avg is 1.7 wins.
This data set for 11 years is for 1408 preseason wins and losses, and 5632 regular season wins and losses. Hardly a small subset. Your 4 year pull is obviously much smaller, yet you use that in an attempt to make a point and then say the larger data set is too small?

With a large data set, where 1 team wins and 1 loses as in this case, the tendency when averaging statistics is for the averages to normalize around the .500 mark. A difference of 2 games in this pool and under this criteria is a significant difference. That's 125 percentage points better in a season in which only 16 game are played. That'd be 20 games over the course of a baseball season, often the difference between first and last place. Over this data range of 11 years, it's 702 more wins for the 4-0 preseason teams. It's significant. Casino owners and oddsmakers make billions on people's lack of understanding of statistical correlations far, far less significant than that.

Teams that win more in the preseason clearly do better in the regular season. That is undeniable. And even if you wnat to debate the subjective term "strong," there is no debating what you meant when you stated matter of factly that there is "no correlation." That is quite simply wrong.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There is no correlation between winning in the preseason and regular season.
...
Preseason games in regards to winning mean nothing.
Actually, there is a strong correlation between winning in the preseason and winning in the regular season - notwithstanding the anomoly of last year's Lions.
http://www.twominutewarning.com/doespreseasonmatter.htm


Did you actually read what you posted. Using the term strong. LOL

...

They have data for 11 years...that is a pretty small subset.

Even for that the spread on avg is 1.7 wins.
This data set for 11 years is for 1408 preseason wins and losses, and 5632 regular season wins and losses. Hardly a small subset. Your 4 year pull is obviously much smaller, yet you use that in an attempt to make a point and then say the larger data set is too small?

With a large data set, where 1 team wins and 1 loses as in this case, the tendency when averaging statistics is for the averages to normalize around the .500 mark. A difference of 2 games in this pool and under this criteria is a significant difference. That's 125 percentage points better in a season in which only 16 game are played. That'd be 20 games over the course of a baseball season, often the difference between first and last place. Over this data range of 11 years, it's 702 more wins for the 4-0 preseason teams. It's significant. Casino owners and oddsmakers make billions on people's lack of understanding of statistical correlations far, far less significant than that.

Teams that win more in the preseason clearly do better in the regular season. That is undeniable. And even if you wnat to debate the subjective term "strong," there is no debating what you meant when you stated matter of factly that there is "no correlation." That is quite simply wrong.

While saying "means nothing" might be strong, i think you get the point. and, i won't back down. It means nothing significant.

again, you miss the fact that they look at things blind.They make no distinction for easier schedule, etc.

To look at the preseason and try and figure out it's correlation to the regular season is stupid. For example, last year the lions beat the giants...yet the giants didn't play many starters. Last night the pack beat the cards, the cards clearly didn't game plan. Preseason is a joke for analysis.

11 years is 11 years...why not go back and look at 40 years?

There is a .7 difference between 2 wins and 4 wins in the preseason. That is hardly something.

Why would we look at the whole when we can look at specifics like i pointed out? Clearly they see the use of it...and when we look at 10 win teams...voila, more wins are accrued by 2 win teams than any other. Why? Who knows, but we know that good teams don't care about the preseason..they use it to evaluate talent.

Quite simply, good teams are good teams, but teams are bad teams. However, good teams that lose doesn't mean they will lose in the regular season.

There are way to many variables to even try to pretend that the preseason means anything. At best you can try and talk about subsets.

As my mom said, the proof is in the pudding. Look at what they wrote: Looking good: Detroit, TB, Washington.

In trouble: Chicago and Minn.

Could the results speak any more poorly for the analysis?

This reminds me of baseball math...and when the #s say one thing, but the player doesn't perform....it is luck...it is always luck when the #s don't work.
:oops: