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Deputy Nutz
08-30-2009, 09:04 PM
After watching the game on Friday night I began to ponder several pieces of the upcoming NFL season, especially for the Green Bay Packers.

Most here know me as a Brett Favre supporter/fan. Although I believe he would have been the better choice in 2008 for the Green Bay Packers, I now hold the belief that Rodgers is the best fit for the Packers in 2009. I understand that Rodgers had to take his lumps in 2008, but I don't watch the Packers to see them take there lumps, I watch them because I want them to win. The bottom line for me, is that I still think the 2008 season would have been better in terms of success for the Green Bay Packers if Favre was the starting QB. I also understand that this would have hindered the progress of Aaron Rodgers. There hasn't been one snap taken in the regular season in 2009, but I do believe that the Packers will have the best offense in the NFL in 2009. This probably wouldn't be possible if Favre would have quarterbacked this team in 2008. Again this is just a prediction that the Packers will have a successful season on offense in 2009 and of course, barring injuries. Rodgers is also in a very good situation, a situation that is possibly better than any other that Favre has had in terms of offensive talent around him.

The offensive line is a better overall unit with the loss of Mark Tauscher. Tauscher was an over achiever, and was a good right tackle, but he never put the wow on when it came to driving a defensive lineman off the ball, or reaching the next level and locking on to a linebacker. Barbre is a very talented linemen, and although it has taken him 2 seasons to become a raw starter in the NFL I believe he brings more to the table in terms of a higher ceiling and ability as a right tackle than Tauscher. I think over all this team will be a more physical on the offensive side of the ball because of the new right side of the line with Sitton, and Barbre. Barbre is going to get beat a time or two on speed rushes and stunts, but it is the same situation as Aaron Rodgers, Barbre may need a season to develop as a starter, but he sure can run block.

The Packers have depth at running back. At this point I don't think it really matters who is running the rock behind this offensive line. Jackson and Grant are both comfortable running the ball in this system and their vision is much improved, although it does seem that Grant cuts back against zone a little bit to often for my taste. Grant needs to do a better job of following his fullback because he has three really good fullbacks on the current roster. Wynn is the most talented back on the roster, and Sutton might be the most flexible, but Wynn looks to be in really good shape and ready to earn a spot on this roster. Wynn can make a difference on this offense especially if he is committed to being a football player full time.

Colledge is now our best offensive linemen. Thats right, he has gone from worst to first. I have been watching Barbre for most of the preseason but I have noticed that Colledge is actually beating the living crap out of defensive linemen, and linebackers on running plays. He is locking on and driving defenders 4 or 5 yards down field on a regular basis. For the past 3 season it was always a position battle at left guard, now no one on this roster is in the same league as Colledge at left guard.

Benching Wells and moving Spitz full time to Center was the right move. Wells is a "Try hard" guy, but he just doesn't have the size and agility combination that Spitz brings to the table. Sitton is also having a really good camp which makes it difficult to go with an undersized linemen at Center when you have bigger, athletic linemen in Spitz and Sitton.

Lee and Finely might be the best tight end tandem in the league, for sure the best two tight ends on the Packers roster since Chumra and Jackson in 1996. Have two really good tight ends makes an offense extremely flexible because when two tight ends are on the field, especially two tight ends that can stretch the field like wide outs really puts pressure on a defense because not only can they cause mismatches down field they cause personel problems because they can also run block very well. Defenses will get into trouble if they run out their nickle package against Lee and Finely because the Packers should be able to run the ball, if the defense stays in their base it cause a linebacker to match up either Finely or Lee. This might be the biggest reason the Packers offense will be superior to any other offense in the NFC.

Defensively this team will be better than what they were in 2008. That isn't a very bold statement, but I think it will be important because they don't have to be world class, they just have to allow the offense to out score their opponents. I don't expect the Packers to have a top 5 defense. The defense just has to slow down the other teams offense.

Charles Woodson is the best athlete/football player on the Packers. He understands the game on a whole different level than 99% of other defensive players in the game. Instincts, guys like him and Lawrence Taylor have them to the point where they can't explain how or why they did what they did, they just happen. Woodson is a better student of the game than Lawrence Taylor, but Woodson is a freak, he is one of the best blitzers on the team and he is a cornerback. He might have a freakish stat line this year that might read something like this; 60 tackles, 12 tackles for a loss, 8 sackes, 7 ints, 9 passes defensed, and 4 fumble recoveries. I honestly can't wait to the regular season starts simply to watch Woodson wreck opposing offenses.

Aaron Kampman ain't no linebacker. He isn't a drop end either. He is a down lineman that gets his goods because of his motor and the leverage he creates with his discipline technique. I don't care how many time I listen to Rich Gannon and Bob Harlan's kid tell me he is doing a really great job, he looks ridiculously stiff in coverage, and he looks slow on the few times he comes off the edge in the pre season. I understand they are wanting him to get comfortable dropping into coverage and having him do it more in the pre season than what they will actually have him do in the regular season but he just doesn't look right in a two point stance and retreating into coverage. I think he will manage because that is the type of guy he is, but he could be and would be much more dynamic in a three point stance charging in low.

It is good that the Packers have a couple of good linebackers, but they all have weaknesses. Chillar's play was less than stellar on Friday while I thought Hawk was as always assignment sure, but nothing flashy. Bishop's play fell off considerably Friday night to what we were normally seeing the past couple of weeks. Thompson looks stiff, much like Kampman. It will be interesting to see what Nick Barnett brings to the table, he is fast, he is a decent blitzer, but he is going to need a guy like Hawk by his side eating up blocks and filtering plays back into Barnett. Barnett coming off the injury can't get intangled by offensive linemen because he will wind up past the safeties.

The defensive line is really shaping up into a rotation of big athletic bodies. Jenkins, Pickett, Jolly, and Raji are all monsters that eat up blocks, but have the ability to come off those same blocks and make plays at the line of scrimmage.

The secondary still has some questions at safety, Nick Collins should be given a new contract, he is a good football player regardless of scheme. But Bigby is invisible and Anthony Smith is either hit or miss, good play or bad play, nothing that I can call dependable play. Harris is going to be all right in the 3-4, Williams will be a decent nickle back.

honestly this team is the front runner in the NFL North, there is too much drama to the North, and the Bears still don't have the receiving core to match points with the Packers.

Partial
08-30-2009, 09:14 PM
I agree with this on basically every single point. Excellent post.

retailguy
08-30-2009, 09:59 PM
This is the Nutz that I remember from JSO. Welcome back. (and I mean that sincerely)

Bretsky
08-30-2009, 10:18 PM
all great points............not to nitpick...because "might" was used
but there are probably at least one or two TE combos better than GB in the NFC

Whitten and Bennett (another solid young looking TE who was drafted ahead of Finley are > then Lee and Finley. They have to be tops in the NFL

I hate them but might also say Olson and Desmond Clark > Packer TE's

Deputy Nutz
08-30-2009, 10:20 PM
I think a lot is being made out of Witten and Bennett because they play for the Cowboys. Blocking wise, I don't think they are as good as Lee/Finely.

Olsen is a glorified wide out, he can't block.

Partial
08-30-2009, 10:45 PM
I think a lot is being made out of Witten and Bennett because they play for the Cowboys. Blocking wise, I don't think they are as good as Lee/Finely.

Olsen is a glorified wide out, he can't block.

Witten is great but I don't know too much about Bennett. I haven't heard the same sort of buzz as I have for Finley, but then again I don't live in big D either.

HarveyWallbangers
08-30-2009, 10:51 PM
Good post. I agree also. I will now admit that I'm a bit worried about Kampman at LOLB. I won't write him off because he apparently has rushed the passer and stopped the run well in practice. Maybe it will eventually translate during the games. However, he looks like somebody that needs to be on the tackle or blocker at the snap to maximize his pass rush skills. We'll see, but I'm ready to eat crow on that one. On the plus side, there isn't much else on the negative side of things from this preseason. OL looks better, Grant looks healthy, ARod looks like a guy who could move from what I felt was the 10th-12th best QB in the league to elite, WRs/TEs look loaded. Jones looks much better than last year. Driver looks the same. Finley looks like a future star. The DL looks good, Woodson still has it, and Collins looks like he can play in any scheme. Special teams coverage looks like it could go from weak to good.

Bretsky
08-30-2009, 11:09 PM
Kampman will need time; I'm willing to wait a while longer to see how that develops

Bigby does not seem to be making plays

P, Dallas is very high on Bennett as well. He was a more complete player last year than Finley. The upside on both of these guys is very good.

One huge difference is Bennett plays behind on of the best all around TE's in the game and Finley plays behind a TE that is average at best as a receiver.

Partial
08-30-2009, 11:11 PM
Kampman will need time; I'm willing to wait a while longer to see how that develops

Bigby does not seem to be making plays

P, Dallas is very high on Bennett as well. He was a more complete player last year than Finley. The upside on both of these guys is very good.

One huge difference is Bennett plays behind on of the best all around TE's in the game and Finley plays behind a TE that is average at best as a receiver.

I thought Kampman looked decent enough in the first two games. Didn't see the Arizona game. I don't think they've sent him as much as they will in the regular season.

I think you're doing Lee a disservice. He's much better than people give him credit for in my opinion. He was, what, 4th is pro bowl voting in 2007? He is very capable running the seam route, getting yards after the catch and is a good enough athlete.

Bretsky
08-30-2009, 11:27 PM
Kampman will need time; I'm willing to wait a while longer to see how that develops

Bigby does not seem to be making plays

P, Dallas is very high on Bennett as well. He was a more complete player last year than Finley. The upside on both of these guys is very good.

One huge difference is Bennett plays behind on of the best all around TE's in the game and Finley plays behind a TE that is average at best as a receiver.

I thought Kampman looked decent enough in the first two games. Didn't see the Arizona game. I don't think they've sent him as much as they will in the regular season.

I think you're doing Lee a disservice. He's much better than people give him credit for in my opinion. He was, what, 4th is pro bowl voting in 2007? He is very capable running the seam route, getting yards after the catch and is a good enough athlete.



I don't think I'm doing Lee that much of disservice. Nothing wrong with being average at the pro level. Just plenty of TE's that are better in both conferences as a receiver. We'd never agree on a list....but I'd rip off these names without even thinking

Witten, Gates, Clark, Daniels, Gonzo, John Carlson, Keller, Olsen, Shiancoe, Zach Miller, probably Heath Miller, Shockey when healthy, Cooley, Winslow, That puts him somewhere in the middle on my mind as a receiver

pbmax
08-30-2009, 11:52 PM
Colledge is now our best offensive linemen. Thats right, he has gone from worst to first. I have been watching Barbre for most of the preseason but I have noticed that Colledge is actually beating the living crap out of defensive linemen, and linebackers on running plays. He is locking on and driving defenders 4 or 5 yards down field on a regular basis. For the past 3 season it was always a position battle at left guard, now no one on this roster is in the same league as Colledge at left guard.
Abso-freaking-lutely. I think he was there sometime last year, but why quibble over half a season? Welcome to the Daryn Colledge Fan Club. We previously had three members, KYPack and Waldo will be here with drinks and stogies shortly. :lol:

KYPack
08-31-2009, 09:29 AM
Colledge is now our best offensive linemen. Thats right, he has gone from worst to first. I have been watching Barbre for most of the preseason but I have noticed that Colledge is actually beating the living crap out of defensive linemen, and linebackers on running plays. He is locking on and driving defenders 4 or 5 yards down field on a regular basis. For the past 3 season it was always a position battle at left guard, now no one on this roster is in the same league as Colledge at left guard.
Abso-freaking-lutely. I think he was there sometime last year, but why quibble over half a season? Welcome to the Daryn Colledge Fan Club. We previously had three members, KYPack and Waldo will be here with drinks and stogies shortly. :lol:

First of all, let me join the chorus. That was definitely one king-hell post there, Nutz. I agree with every word of that baby because it is all true.

PB, give me a spot on that Daryn Colledge Fan Club. I'll grab a jug of Kool-aid and sit in the back. I'm no charter member, but DC is now our top OLineman and he's earned it. The guy has improved in many tiny steps and earned that top spot. He even looks like a NFL guard now, squattier body and all.

Barbre is also starting to earn his spurs and will one day be superior to Mark Tauscher in his hey day. Barbre is already much better than Tauscher ever was at pulling out into the right flat and making sideline blocks. His experience at guard allows him to seek and destroy on down field blocks. he has to work at pass pro, but that will come. Him and Sitton aren't any ballerinas or anything, but they are both bruisers. I can well see the day when third and two will be an automatic when going over the right side of our line.

These young guys are all hitting their stride and now we have young guys who are all growing into mean men on that line of scrimmage. I hope everything progresses at an even rate & we avoid the injury bug. if we do, this could be a vintage season.

sharpe1027
08-31-2009, 09:48 AM
Good post. I agree that Kampy isn't Woodson-worth in coverage. That being said, LaMarr Woodley is no ballerina out there.

HarveyWallbangers
08-31-2009, 10:04 AM
Good post. I agree that Kampy isn't Woodson-worth in coverage. That being said, LaMarr Woodley is no ballerina out there.

I'm actually more worried that he appears to be a better rusher with his hand on the ground then when he's off the line.

Scott Campbell
08-31-2009, 10:09 AM
Nice post Nutz. Before the season I believed Favre would have been the best choice for 2008, but now believe Rodgers was the better player and fit for the team in 2008. The 2009 versions aren't even close.

sharpe1027
08-31-2009, 10:39 AM
Good post. I agree that Kampy isn't Woodson-worth in coverage. That being said, LaMarr Woodley is no ballerina out there.

I'm actually more worried that he appears to be a better rusher with his hand on the ground then when he's off the line.

Maybe, but (barring a zone blitz or something) DEs are rushing the QB on every passing play and should get more total sacks than an OLBer that is not rushing as many plays total. I think he'll be effective even though his total sacks might be down some.

rbaloha1
08-31-2009, 11:45 AM
After watching preseason my expectations increased. Finally the team is playing the way MM and TT envisioned.

The offense is balanced with home run capabilities at any time. The o-line is young and assignment sure. The defense is also capable of scoring a td on any down.

Still concerned about the punting game. However due to a weak north and softer schedule fully expect the Packers to be a legitimate super bowl contender.

pbmax
08-31-2009, 11:51 AM
Good post. I agree that Kampy isn't Woodson-worth in coverage. That being said, LaMarr Woodley is no ballerina out there.

I'm actually more worried that he appears to be a better rusher with his hand on the ground then when he's off the line.

Maybe, but (barring a zone blitz or something) DEs are rushing the QB on every passing play and should get more total sacks than an OLBer that is not rushing as many plays total. I think he'll be effective even though his total sacks might be down some.
The DEs you are referring to will only rush the passer out of the base set, which is used 40% of the time. In other packages, Kampman/Matthews/Thompson will be the the de facto ends. Jenkins and Raji, of the base DEs, will be tackles on passing downs.

sharpe1027
08-31-2009, 11:57 AM
Good post. I agree that Kampy isn't Woodson-worth in coverage. That being said, LaMarr Woodley is no ballerina out there.

I'm actually more worried that he appears to be a better rusher with his hand on the ground then when he's off the line.

Maybe, but (barring a zone blitz or something) DEs are rushing the QB on every passing play and should get more total sacks than an OLBer that is not rushing as many plays total. I think he'll be effective even though his total sacks might be down some.
The DEs you are referring to will only rush the passer out of the base set, which is used 40% of the time. In other packages, Kampman/Matthews/Thompson will be the the de facto ends. Jenkins and Raji, of the base DEs, will be tackles on passing downs.

I was referring to Kampman when he played as a DE vs. now as an OLB. In the 4-3 he rushed the QB on every pass. So his total sacks may be lower this year, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily less effective without his hand down.

]{ilr]3
08-31-2009, 12:02 PM
After watching preseason my expectations increased. Finally the team is playing the way MM and TT envisioned.

The offense is balanced with home run capabilities at any time. The o-line is young and assignment sure. The defense is also capable of scoring a td on any down.

Still concerned about the punting game. However due to a weak north and softer schedule fully expect the Packers to be a legitimate super bowl contender.

I was suprised to learn that Kapinos has the best yards per punt average in the pre-seaon right now.

I would say with the additions to the vikings and the bears the NFC N is one of the more competitive divisions in the league. Although we still get to play the Browns, Bengals, Rams and the Lions.

denverYooper
08-31-2009, 01:24 PM
After watching preseason my expectations increased. Finally the team is playing the way MM and TT envisioned.

The offense is balanced with home run capabilities at any time. The o-line is young and assignment sure. The defense is also capable of scoring a td on any down.

Still concerned about the punting game. However due to a weak north and softer schedule fully expect the Packers to be a legitimate super bowl contender.

I agree with you that the team has been built according to a larger vision and that that vision seems to be working out. This will be an interesting year because the team is very talented but not yet proven. I'm not sold on the soft schedule idea.

Granted, we do play several teams that appear to be in rebuilding mode (Rams, Browns, Lions x 2, Bucs, 49ers) but I remember thinking last year that we'd have more wins against the 'bad' NFC South. They ended up being stronger than expected. There'll probably be a few teams who're better than expected and won't be the cake games they appeared to be from the outset of the season.

We also play the Steelers and Ravens. They're tough, well-coached teams that will be tough on us mentally and physically. Dallas has had our number the last few years. Seattle has Hass back and will be better sans injuries.

I'm not so sure the north will be as weak this year either. They were not great last year, but the Packers aren't the only team in the division that has improved their team in the last offseason. Cutler is a good quarterback, and he gives the Bears some throws that they never had before. They won't be a pushover. The Vikes are usually tough, no matter how much I despise them. This year won't be different. The Lions are still in disarray and are probably not going to be much of a factor.

I'm pumped about this team, and I think they've got huge talent and are ascending. So far, they've got their mojo workin'. I'm interested, though, to see how they handle the close games and the tough teams. I'm not sure yet. They look great in preseason getting up and staying up. Will they grit it out when the chips are down? Will they keep from getting too sure of themselves? When they have one of those games where almost nothing goes right, can they still find a way to gut it out? If not, will they be able to shake those off and come back to win the next week?

How are they in the clutch?

woodbuck27
08-31-2009, 04:23 PM
Nice post Nutz. Before the season I believed Favre would have been the best choice for 2008, but now believe Rodgers was the better player and fit for the team in 2008. The 2009 versions aren't even close.

Aaron Rodgers did extremely well and under some pressure to perform after all the off season Favre hoopla last year. We should be very pleased with our QB and his upside remains for us to enjoy.

woodbuck27
08-31-2009, 05:05 PM
A lot of thought time and effort in that post Nutz. Thanks. I would be at such a disadvantage as a Packer fan without the fine posting of some of the best here at Packerrats.

It appears to me that there is a marked improvement in our team and credit has to be given to all the off season efforts of players and coachs to get our players ready and believing in a system.

The following players appear to be coming of age:

Collins,Spitz and Colledge.

We see bona fide stars in Charles Woodson, Aaron Rodgers, Greg Jennings and Donald Driver. If he stays healthy I expect Ryan Grant to come on big this season and give us a more consistent running game.

I checked the paper this morning and the pre-season results to date and the NFCN is leading all divisions in wins with nine leading up to tonights Vikings and Texans match-up. I expect the Old Black and Blue division will be back this year with really hard fought games. I predict that the Packers and Vikinga offenses will be strong in '09 and whichever team plays the best defense will cop the NFCN.

We need Nick Barnett to get back and play strong. He anchors our linebackers. We have the big bodies and talent on the DL but we need to see our linebackers react to the oppositions running game with some smashmouth tackling, with some head for the ball.

I'll be disappointed if we don't win at least 10 games.


GO Packers.

Deputy Nutz
08-31-2009, 11:33 PM
Listening to the local talking head on the radio the realization is that the Packers are a good football team. If the Packers don't win 10 games this year it will be a disappointment and I expect huge changes will be made.

Fritz
09-01-2009, 12:23 PM
A friend of mine who watched Minny last night said he thought the Vikes looked really, really, really good.

Should be a tight division this year.

Partial
09-01-2009, 01:08 PM
Listening to the local talking head on the radio the realization is that the Packers are a good football team. If the Packers don't win 10 games this year it will be a disappointment and I expect huge changes will be made.

That should be the expectation, I would think. 10-6 is reasonable.