Denver Post piece on Javon Walker

[green_bowl_packer]

Here's a Denver Post article about Javon Walker, they make him sound like the second coming of Haven Moses. I'm of the opinion that Favre made him, and think he'll be decent again, but not so sure he'll have another year like 2004 any time soon with Plummer or Cutler throwing the ball. Ray Sherman his old receivers coach n GB thinks he's top 5 reciever material.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_4084083

Article Launched: 07/23/2006 01:00:00 AM MDT

denver broncos
What if ...
- Javon Walker's right knee holds up?
- The wideout has another Pro Bowl season?
- He is just what the Broncos need to succeed?
By Jim Armstrong
Denver Post Staff Writer

Javon Walker (Post / Cyrus McCrimmon)

Baseball, Branch Rickey once said, is a game of inches. Then there's football, the game of ifs.

Take Javon Walker, for instance. If he's healthy, he's just what the Broncos need, a big, physical wideout who can stretch the field on one play and make a tough third-down catch on another. If his right knee holds up, he could become the Broncos' most significant offseason acquisition of the post-Elway era. If he's the player he was with the Packers, he could be the difference between the Broncos making the playoffs and winning the Super Bowl.

If, if, if.

There's no way around it. When you blow out your anterior cruciate ligament, you become a questionable commodity. The good news for the Broncos is, while Walker's future is uncertain, the exclamation points following his name far outnumber the question marks.

"We think he's one of the top receivers in the league," Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said. "If he's the top one, time will tell."

Whoa, whoa, whoa. The top one, as in the best in the business, the head of the table, the top of the food chain?

"He's got a chance," Shanahan said. "We wouldn't have signed him unless we had a lot of confidence in him. You don't give up a second-round draft choice unless you think a guy is going to be on your team for a while."

In late April, Walker couldn't fully extend his right leg. With the first workout of Camp Shanahan 2006 scheduled for Friday at Dove Valley, the Broncos are confident Walker will be healthy and productive. But the top wideout in the league? Walker says he can get there.

"That's definite," Walker said. "My Pro Bowl year (2004), I'm trying to get back to that level. I'm not going to live on the hype. That's why I'm here every day working. I can't let what I've done in the past dictate what I'm going to do. I want to come out and be better than I was. I want to give people a chance to say, 'You know what, that was a great move."'

This much is certain before he breaks his first sweat in training camp: Acquiring Walker was a move the Broncos didn't hesitate one second to make. When the Packers ceded to Walker's trade demands and made him available for the 37th pick in the draft, Shanahan and his staff jumped at the opportunity.

"How they pulled that off, I don't know," said Mike Heimerdinger, the Broncos' de facto offensive coordinator. "I was as shocked as everybody else. We all had a vote and it was unanimous. I was like, 'Heck, yeah.' It was kind of a no-brainer."

Heimerdinger was the Broncos' receivers coach from 1995-99, when he oversaw the development of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey into one of the NFL's elite pass-catching tandems. McCaffrey caught 101 passes and Smith 100 in 2000, a production level Heimerdinger said he believes Walker and Smith can match.

"You would hope so," Heimerdinger said. "I think you can do that. Because of our run game, we're always going to get pretty good matchups with the wide receivers because people are going to play an eight-man front. That's what you want, one-on-ones. We should be able to get those matchups, so I'm hoping those guys can get those kinds of numbers."

Smith's 100 receptions in 2000 remain the second-highest total of his career. Walker caught 89 passes with Green Bay in 2004 after beginning his NFL career with 23 catches in 2002 and 41 in 2003.

He never had a chance to hit the 100 mark last season, tearing up his knee in the Packers' season opener.

Numbers don't lie

Now for the numbers inside the numbers, the ones that suggest a healthy Walker could be the most complete package the Broncos have had at wide receiver. If he's the same player he was before the injury, he would be more explosive than Smith and more physical than Ashley Lelie, the Broncos' other starting wideout last season.

Walker caught nine touchdown passes in his second season and 12 in his breakout year of 2004. Smith had six touchdown catches last season, Lelie one. Then there's the matter of third-down conversions, by far the Broncos' most vexing issue in recent seasons. Denver finished 22nd in the league last season in third-down conversions at 36.2 percent. And that number gets uglier when you take a closer look at the Broncos' third-down production.

They ranked 27th in third-down conversions through the air, converting 30.6 percent compared with the Colts, who led the league at 48.6 percent.

"The stats don't lie," Smith said. "Our third downs were horrible. When we won the Super Bowl, we were like one or two in the league in third downs. That's how you get more points. That's how you stay on the field. That's how you help your defense. ... With a guy like Javon on our team, it helps us. It gives us another weapon."

Smith made 16 catches on third down last season, 12 for first downs. Lelie, who is expected to continue his holdout into training camp, had nine third-down catches, eight of which moved the chains. Walker? He caught 31 balls on third down in 2004, 24 going for first downs.

Force is with Walker

The obvious question: How big a force would a healthy Walker be for the Broncos on third down?

"He's a force on any down," said Ray Sherman, Walker's receivers coach in Green Bay.

"I love the guy. He's got special skills. Trust me, you put the ball in his area and he's going to make the play. That's the kind of guy he is. He's a physical guy. You'll see."

He's a physical guy who can go over the middle and also get open downfield. Oh, and did we mention Walker's run blocking was one of his most attractive attributes in the eyes of Broncos' coaches? It's called the complete package - if he's healthy.

How many receivers in the NFL can match Walker's versatility? Sherman came up with three: Terrell Owens, Donald Driver and Steve Smith. There may be a few more, but you get the point. The list can be knocked off before Maurice Clarett finishes his next 40-yard dash.

More numbers to consider: Walker caught 14 passes of 25-plus yards in 2004. That's one fewer than Smith and Lelie combined for last season. Touchdown catches? You want to talk touchdown catches? Walker's 21 touchdown catches during the 2003-04 seasons were more than any Broncos receiver has caught in back-to-back seasons in franchise history.

Like we said, the man makes for exclamation points. And he's only 27, meaning Walker has plenty of time to evolve into the Broncos' go-to guy. Smith has filled that role admirably for much of his career, but at 36 he'll have to pass the torch sooner, not later.

Marvels of medicine

Sounds like a plan, but it comes with strings attached. Or should we say ligaments repaired?

Everyone is saying all the right things when it comes to Walker's comeback from surgery. But since no one knows what fate has in store for him, let's stick to the facts about his damaged right knee.

First, thanks to the wonders of medical technology, the surgery wasn't as invasive as it would have been 20 years ago. Walker has a small arthroscopic puncture on the knee, something he joked about during a recent photo shoot for The Post.

"My other knee looks worse," he said.

The advancements in ACL surgery were a major factor in Shanahan's decision to give up an early second-round pick for Walker. If the injury had occurred in a previous generation, Walker's future would have been much more uncertain.

"No question about it," Shanahan said. "Most of the guys today who have ACLs early in the season come back even stronger from the year before. A lot depends on the seriousness of the surgery. Some of these ACLs are completely blown and others are just a regular tear. Terrell Davis, for example, had a much different ACL than Javon. It was much worse."

Fact is, most NFL teams have a handful of key players who've had ACL surgeries at some point in their careers. The Broncos' list includes, among others, Smith, Matt Lepsis, Tom Nalen and Ian Gold. Then there's John Elway, who played 16 NFL seasons without an ACL in his left knee.

Rehabilitation key

None of that guarantees a successful comeback for Walker, of course, but all signs point to a big season in his first year in Denver. And if you need more proof, check out Walker's leg. He won't be wearing a knee brace, a decision he came to after consulting with, among others, longtime Broncos trainer Steve Antonopulos.

"In today's rehabilitative process, the mind-set is you don't need one," Antonopulos said. "The whole process is much different than what it used to be. He's at a phase where he'll have to go through some mental stuff, but he's doing very well with that. Every day he seems to be better, less tentative. The bottom line is we want him to be able to participate 100 percent by the first game."

As encouraged as the Broncos are by Walker's progress, it isn't like he's been ahead of the healing curve from Day One. To the contrary. Dr. Walt Lowe, the Texans' team surgeon, performed the surgery last October. Since Walker knew he was leaving the Packers, he stayed in Houston to rehab before returning to Florida State in January.

"He was working out on his own," Antonopulos said. "He thought he could just go back and do it. He had some soreness and stiffness, so he went back to Dr. Lowe in March and had a scope to clean out some scar tissue. It was during that time frame where he was traveling to different NFL teams, too."

When the Broncos made the deal, the message from their medical staff was loud and clear.

"Once we got him, the first thing we said was, 'You're going to come here right now, next week,"' Antonopulos said. "When he came to us, he wasn't able to get full extension on the leg. Gosh, you'd want that the first few weeks after surgery."

And so it was that Walker put his fate in the hands of the Broncos' medical staff. It was during that process when Antonopulos became more convinced that Walker will rediscover his Pro Bowl ways.

"He's got a great attitude," Antonopulos said. "He's done all we've asked of him. Everything psychologically and physically is geared toward that first game. That's the goal he and I have talked about from Day One, and he's followed it every inch of the way."

Walker will be relegated to one daily practice during camp, but expects to be ready for the season opener Sept. 10 at St. Louis. The difficult part, he said, is trying to be cautious and methodical at a time when he's so excited to be joining a team that fell one game short of the Super Bowl.

"Making plays on the field doesn't just happen," Walker said. "It's because you're part of a good organization. I'm excited just thinking about the caliber of the team, where they were a year ago, the new acquisitions....They fell one game short last year. Hopefully we can win that one game, go to the Super Bowl and win it."

Playing 20 questions with Javon

Staff writer Jim Armstrong helps us get to know new Broncos wide receiver Javon Walker by asking him 20 questions, some serious and some silly. Walker was acquired from the Green Bay Packers on draft day for a second-round draft pick. He was selected by Green Bay in the first round of the 2002 draft:

1 Favorite all-time athlete, any sport? Michael Jordan. "Because he's Michael Jordan."

2 Biggest influence in your life? My mother. "She was a single mother raising a young man who never had a father around. For me to be doing what I am today, it's because of what she instilled in me. It's about having faith, being confident, never saying 'I can't."'

3 Last book you read? "Rich Dad, Poor Dad (What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money - That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not)" by Robert Kiyosaki and Sharon Lechter.

4 Favorite all-time TV show? "'Martin.' I'm a Martin (Lawrence) and Jamie Foxx guy."

5 Favorite all-time movie? "'Dodgeball' - because it's so funny."

6 You would have made it to the big leagues if not for ... ? "Those darn curveballs."

7 Deepest, darkest secret that nobody knows about you? "My middle name." So what is it? "Can't say."

8 Thing that has surprised you most about Mike Shanahan? "He's real easy-going."

9 Ginger or Mary Ann? "Ginger."

10 Most indelible early impression of Denver? "The rain and cold in April. Now that I've seen the good weather, it's great, but when it was snowing in April, I was like, 'Oh, my goodness, I'm going back to another Green Bay."'

11 Best habit? "I take care of my body."

12 Worst habit? "I eat too much. That's why I have to take care of my body."

13 Favorite junk food? "KitKat bars."

14 Best friend in football? "Darren Sharper."

15 Best friend among your new teammates? "Champ Bailey-slash-Al Wilson-slash-Gerard Warren. I knew them before I came here."

16 Best advice you ever received from your mother? "Never say you can't."

17 Nastiest hit you ever took? "Saints safety Sammy Knight in my rookie year. It happened real early in the game and I didn't want to play anymore. I said to myself, 'Come on, man, you've got three quarters left."'

18 Best cover corner you've faced? "Champ Bailey."

19 Favorite musician? "Jay-Z."

20 Athletes should or shouldn't be role models? "We should. It's easy to say no, but then you might as well get out of the profession. You know kids are going to be watching."

[Rastak]

Here's a Denver Post article about Javon Walker, they make him sound like the second coming of Haven Moses. I'm of the opinion that Favre made him, and think he'll be decent again, but not so sure he'll have another year like 2004 any time soon with Plummer or Cutler throwing the ball. Ray Sherman his old receivers coach n GB thinks he's top 5 reciever material.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_4084083


Actually he sort of bailed Favre out a few times by just outjumping the defender to grab passes that seemed on the surface to be thrown up for grabs. Walker is a pretty solid receiver, I wouldn't say top 5 and he is coming off a nasty injury but he's a very good player.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Hes going to be great for denver, TT is dumb for not giving him a contract when he asked b4 the injury.

[MadtownPacker]

Actually he sort of bailed Favre out a few times by just outjumping the defender to grab passes that seemed on the surface to be thrown up for grabs. Walker is a pretty solid receiver, I wouldn't say top 5 and he is coming off a nasty injury but he's a very good player.
A few times huh? I would agree, a few times. Not much different then how moss bailed out culpepper, but way more then a few times. In fact, like every game it seemed.

[Rastak]

Actually he sort of bailed Favre out a few times by just outjumping the defender to grab passes that seemed on the surface to be thrown up for grabs. Walker is a pretty solid receiver, I wouldn't say top 5 and he is coming off a nasty injury but he's a very good player.
A few times huh? I would agree, a few times. Not much different then how moss bailed out culpepper, but way more then a few times. In fact, like every game it seemed.

Yea, I would agree 100%...Randy did bail out Culpepper more than once. It's a great skill for a reciever to have, that timing.

[MadtownPacker]

Yea, I would agree 100%...Randy did bail out Culpepper more than once. It's a great skill for a reciever to have, that timing.As much as I hated moss I have always admitted he was the best WR in the NFL during his hot years. Any balll thrown in his area was almost always caught.

When Sherman drafted walker I hoped he would provide the same thing. He did but for far too short of a time to consider him elite. If he does the same with Plummer I will believe the hype but right now his only success has been with Favre. Moss made all his QBs, even scrubs, look great on Sundays.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rastak, since when were you on a first name basis with that wide reciever from Oakland?

[Bretsky]

Walker was the most talented WR in Green Bay since Sterling Sharpe.

TT took the easy way out.

[MJZiggy]

B, yes, trading him was the easy way out, but remember the difficult way was to have his talented WR holding out instead of gone. Then he comes back for a few games and bolts to FA anyway. You may think there's a possibility that TT could have talked him off the ledge, but I heard rumors that TT made him an offer and he refused it. My beef with that article was that the kept comparing Walker's numbers to Lelie's. Lelie's not the number one guy and as such won't have the numbers that Walker has. Maybe Lelie will find another team where he can be #1 and put up great numbers. Maybe not, but the comparisons should be made with Rod Smith instead.

[Bretsky]

Walker is more talented than Rod Smith if healthy.

REMEMBER when this all began, GB wanted a 1st and 3rd. Several in here wanted that, than many said we'd settle for a 1st round pick.

Then TT gives him up for a 2nd, and our homerism pushes up to back TT.

We didn't get fair market value for a WR that age entering into his prime, even with a knee injury.

JW was not going to hold out.

TT could have franchised him after next season.

I'm torn on what I'd have done, but I think I would have demmanded more than a 2nd rounder.

But again, TT took the easy way out

[Rastak]

Rastak, since when were you on a first name basis with that wide reciever from Oakland?


We go way back HH.

[RashanGary]

This much is certain before he breaks his first sweat in training camp: Acquiring Walker was a move the Broncos didn't hesitate one second to make. When the Packers ceded to Walker's trade demands and made him available for the 37th pick in the draft, Shanahan and his staff jumped at the opportunity.

"How they pulled that off, I don't know," said Mike Heimerdinger, the Broncos' de facto offensive coordinator. "I was as shocked as everybody else. We all had a vote and it was unanimous. I was like, 'Heck, yeah.' It was kind of a no-brainer."



He'll have a good season. I don't think it was this much of a no brainer or other teams would have been offering more. I'm sure TT gave the next bidders a chance to beat it.

[MJZiggy]

B, how do you know that JW was not going to hold out? He said flat-out that he'd retire before playing another down in GB and sold his house.

TT could have franchised him next year, but if he were holding out, what good would that have done for the Packers?

[Bretsky]

This much is certain before he breaks his first sweat in training camp: Acquiring Walker was a move the Broncos didn't hesitate one second to make. When the Packers ceded to Walker's trade demands and made him available for the 37th pick in the draft, Shanahan and his staff jumped at the opportunity.

"How they pulled that off, I don't know," said Mike Heimerdinger, the Broncos' de facto offensive coordinator. "I was as shocked as everybody else. We all had a vote and it was unanimous. I was like, 'Heck, yeah.' It was kind of a no-brainer."



He'll have a good season. I don't think it was this much of a no brainer or other teams would have been offering more. I'm sure TT gave the next bidders a chance to beat it.

IF I'm Denver taking that deal is too easy; I am honestly surprised TT didn't fascilitate more in a deal.

[FavreChild]

TT took the easy way out

The easy way out would have been to give Javon a new contract in the first place. Or at least assure him a new contract was imminent.

After fostering so much ill will, TT did the right thing in cutting Javon loose. Good luck to him in Denver - I hope he lives up to expectations.

[Bretsky]

B, how do you know that JW was not going to hold out? He said flat-out that he'd retire before playing another down in GB and sold his house.

TT could have franchised him next year, but if he were holding out, what good would that have done for the Packers?


That retirement stuff was babble. What else would Javon do now ? TT stays strong and fines him week after week. Javon is no brain scientist. As all he knows now is football. Year after year we hear players throwing out blanket threats and GM's reactiing. It's sickening.

Javon wants the riches; he's always acted like a spoiled brat, but in the end he wanted money and his ego needed to feel respected. And TT could have had him by the balls and instead set a bad example for the rest of the squad.

Don't be surprised if Al Harris uses the same ploy a year from now.

[Bretsky]

TT took the easy way out

The easy way out would have been to give Javon a new contract in the first place. Or at least assure him a new contract was imminent.

After fostering so much ill will, TT did the right thing in cutting Javon loose. Good luck to him in Denver - I hope he lives up to expectations.


Assuring him a new contract may be imminent would have been a cut throat business tactic that most teams employ IMO. Sometimes they deliver, sometimes they do not.

If TT got fair market value in that deal for JW, I'd be ok with all this. But that trade did not. So the difficult thing IMO would have been to take a hard line stance with JW or with teams trying to lowball Javon Walker's value.

TT made it a good deal for Denver and Javon Walker, and the precedent he set concerns me as well.

B

[pbmax]

I think he would have held out. Look at the contract he signed, its a one year deal if Denver wants it to be.

If he plays his six games and proves he is healthy or at least recovered, he can easily get the same contract next offseason.

Bretsky has a point, however. If the threat doesn't work and he is on his way out, he might have decided to play more to get the contract number up. If money was paramount, he might have done it.

And that is why trading him was not just the easy way out. His head is elsewhere, he is thinking about everything else other than team. Saddling a team with a player with a separate agenda is Jerry Jones, Shanahan's and Snyder's baliwick. Who needs that headache?

He was paid handsomely his first two years and the Packers didn't ask for any money back.

The deciding factor is whether T2 can find enough talent to make us forget him.

[GrnBay007]

HaHa....I like the T2! :D


We are starting to sound like Star Wars......M3 and T2.

[4and12to12and4]

Well, I agree with the posters here who say that JW is a great receiver. If he comes back healthy, he will really help Denver. Javon was not made by Favre AT ALL!! If anything, Favre could have gotten more out of him by throwing to him more, and there were a lot of deep balls that Favre misthrew to him that ended up incomplete when he was wide open. As GREAT as Favre is, and I personally think he's the best all around QB in the history of the game (at least as long as I've been watching), but one of his weaknesses has always been accuracy throwing the long ball. And, that was what Javon was great at, being able to seperate downfield. I can't remember any balls thrown deep to him catching him in stride without Javon having to adjust, and most of the time stop completely allowing the DB to catch up, and then simply win the jumping contest. TO and JW are so very close in physicality and great ball awareness. Which is why I believe TO, if he and Bledsoe stay healthy are going to break records this year. Because, Bledsoe is one of the best deep ballers ever, and that will bode well for TO's talents. But as far as JW stands, if healthy, he will be IMO one of the best there is. As long as Denver can get him the ball.

This is a depressing thread, because we don't have him anymore, and as much as it goes against my anger towards him, I still do hope he succeeds in Denver, and wish that TT would have found a way to keep him here. It probably would have been difficult, but it seems to me that if he really set his mind to it, he could have done it, unless JW just didn't want to be on the same team as Brett after he called him out. (not trying to start a discussion of who's fault that was, we're way beyond that now).

You know, losing a guy like JW really isn't the end of the world for us, simply because, I think that a guy like Jennings has a game better suited to Brett's game anyways. A guy with decent size that can shake free of a defender quickly so that Favre can fire the short to medium pass in on his numbers. Let's hope so, anyways.

[RashanGary]

Thompson has done a good job so far. Wahle and Walker are his two most questionable moves. He seems to believe he can keep bringing in young talent but at some point you need players who are in their prime to carry you. NE had some moves like that. Bledsoe, Malloy ect..Those guys where in their prime and probowl level. NE made it happen though. We can't really judge TT yet but if you're one of those guys is more concerned with the right now than you are with the big picture than this move probably looks horrible.

"Big Picture" people seem to like TT. "Right Now" people seem to hate him. That is my observation. Considering TT has been preaching seeing the big picture, there is no surprise I liked him from the start. I'm a "big picture" person.

[Bretsky]

I'm neutral on TT.

However, if you look purely at the evidence of what TT has down so far I don't see how you can say he's done a good job.

Last year, injuries aside, he left us incredibly short on depth on the OL and we paid for it dearly. Cost Effective or not, his free agent choices did not work.

Now if you want to drink the Kool Aide and assume the best on multiple moves that may or may not pan out, then you can allow your Packer Homerism to say TT is doing a great job.


B

[FavreChild]

"Big Picture" people seem to like TT. "Right Now" people seem to hate him. That is my observation. Considering TT has been preaching seeing the big picture, there is no surprise I liked him from the start. I'm a "big picture" person.

Aw, darlin'...I can't tell you how much I disagree with you there. That's too simplistic. There wasn't much TT could have done about the disasterous season last year. I don't necessarily think this season depends on what magic TT was able to work, either. So in that regard, sure, "right now" did not/does not hinge on TT. But I am definitely not convinced the guy is good for the big pic. If y'all believe otherwise, then I guess you're more optimistic than me. And no one has ever accused me of being a pessimist.

I would hate to have TT for my boss, that's all I know. The guy is shady, and I don't trust him. He's, like, out of the dark ages or something.

I'll be glad to be wrong, but for now...."You, sir, are no Ron Wolf."

[Harlan Huckleby]

point of order: Ron Wolf was pretty shady. He said one thing, did another, quite a bit. He was pretty ruthless moving the players in and out also.

Ron Wolf was a FAR better interview, though!

[HarveyWallbangers]

14 Best friend in football? "Darren Sharper."

I bet Sharper's bitch ass encouraged Javon to act a fool after he went to the Vikings.

[MadtownPacker]

14 Best friend in football? "Darren Sharper."

I bet Sharper's bitch ass encouraged Javon to act a fool after he went to the Vikings.sharper is every WRs best friend.

[RashanGary]

However, if you look purely at the evidence of what TT has down so far I don't see how you can say he's done a good job.




That is what I mean. Looking at on the field evidence, one would not beable to make a case for Thompson doing a good job. This is what I am refering to when I say "right now" people.

Right now, there is no hard evidence of Thompson being a good GM. You can be individually optimistic about each move to have a collective optimism for the Packers future like you suggested. That I do not. My optimism doesn't so much stem from what he's done so far in his short tenure, although, this draft does look very promising. I just don't think we know enough about any of his moves as GM in GB YET. My optimism comes mostly from what Wolf/Holmgren thought of him as a talent evaluator, the success of GB while Thompson was here *note, as soon as he left Wolf bombed a draft* as well as his success drafting in Seattle. The results of good drafts are usually very competitive teams. Also, much of the little that Thompson does say is very encouraging to me. He believes very much in value. Basically the concept that you only have so many dollars to spend so you better get the most bang for your buck. I've read pretty much ever public word he has spoken and while I'm not a huge fan of his communication skills, I am a pretty big fan of his direction, experence, focus and general philosophy.

Based on Thompsons short reign as GM we really know nothing good or bad other than he had a bad record in his first year. What we do know is what people around him have said. We also know the results over time of his previous work. We also know some of what his intentions are based on what he says. Those are what we do know although breaking it down can be tough, it is possible to make a few conclusions or at least come to reasonable educated guesses. Based on what I do know of Thompson and what I have concluded, I think he will do very well. I think he has a great feel for the game of football and more importantly, how talent from the college level will translate to the NFL. I think he has a sound, effective approach to cap management and the financial side of his job. I think he has alot of experience in the NFL and more importantly in the personel side of football operations. He's seen mistakes made by emotional panic and "right now" thinking and he is bound not to put too much weight on right now. He wants what is best in the end or what I like to call the "big picture"

[woodbuck27]

I just read that excellent article.

I'll shoot from the hip here.I havn't read any of your responses but will read the thread after this post.

When I watch what Donald Driver does as a WR I am impressed with the effort he puts forth to make him as effective as he is. DD flat out works his butt off and he can run excellent routes and jig and jag for extra yards and the house after a spectacular catch in traffic. We are very fortunate to have this marvelous WR.

JAVON WALKER. This young man catch's the ball in traffic with outstanding coordination and athleticism.He is nothing short of spectacular in the way he hauls pass's in. Javon's the thouroughbred and Donald's the quarter horse.

It sickens me that we lost this fine WR that we drafted in round one.

HE IS A FIRST ROUND PICK ! Certainly not a bust ala Jamal Reynolds and we lost him and didn't substitute for his talent at his position to date.

That is BULLSHIT on behalf of Ted Thompson.

As we enter TC we see Donald Driver and . . . who in hell will it be at #2. We shouldn't have that doubt entering TC unless OUR GM didn't do his job.

Most of you want to be patient with Ted Thompson and dam it . . . I'm getting sucked in to the feel good . . . lets just give Ole Ted a chance to prove this or that in this or that area of concern.

BULLSHIT !!!

In two seasons as OUR GM. He has allowed OUR fine OL to go to absolute ruin in the middle and Ted's left us nothing more. . .

than a wish and a prayer with what may be plugged into that OL.

On top of that:

1. We have to wonder who will be OUR RB's (three of them coming off leg injuries. .THREE of THEM????? Uhhhh !!!

2.and to get back on topic - OUR #2 WR? Who's that going to be??? DD and who else ???? Good grief. I'm not buying into that.

Brett Favre wasn't buying into that either. The REAL story will one day be revealed. Ted Thompson is screwing us so cleverly that most of you arn't even aware of it.

Brett Favre certainly is.

We should not be wondering about so many areas !

I'm wondering about OUR GM ????

If he was going to not make any real effort to bring Javon Walker back to the fold . . . and he had solid reasons to just trade him - fine. Yet then, it comes down to fair exchange and I hate this . . . well we'll just have to wait and see how all those Rookies pan out.

We lost a top five WR and possibly a top three WR in the NFL folks . . and we are wondering who we have that deserves to line up with Donald Driver???

That sucks and TT is to blame.

Javon Walker gone . . . and well . . . we have Rod Gardner and Marc Boerigter and maybe Robert Ferguson will finaly get there (agains) does not equal the game that Javon Walker brought to us.

SORRY folks but I'm a NOW Packer fan . . . and NOW . . .

we are SCREWED !!

[woodbuck27]

There now !

I read the thread and what I'm feeling about losing Javon Walker and getting DICK ALL for NOW - back, other's see as well.

Something about T2 (cool) just . . . plain n simple creeps me out.

He's one of those people that seems to believe . . .

That there's value in numbers of people over far fewer people but more guranteed value.

He's what I call having a smokescreen style of managing because he doesn't know what in the "H" he's doing.

As I see it. What did we get for Javon Walker today (for this season)?

Sweet DICK ALL.

or NOTHING ! That really sucks !!!

There is absolutely ZERO . . NO EXCUSE for that in a General Manager.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The measure of Ted Thompson comes in 2007. It sucks to have to endure another rebuilding season, but realistically that's what we got in 2006.

Team better have winning record in 2007, with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, or Ted's rebuilding project gonna be looking sad.

[Zool]

In late April, Walker couldn't fully extend his right leg.


So a full 7 months removed from surgery and he still didn't have 100% range of motion? I had the exact same thing to my left knee. I was at 90% at the 4 month mark and 100% at the 5 month mark and my job has nothing to do with athletics.

If he cant be bothered to at least be rehabbing harder than that, this is going to be an ugly year for him. You cannot run until your ROM is 100% and the fully extending part comes way before fully bent in your gait.

[wist43]

This much is certain before he breaks his first sweat in training camp: Acquiring Walker was a move the Broncos didn't hesitate one second to make. When the Packers ceded to Walker's trade demands and made him available for the 37th pick in the draft, Shanahan and his staff jumped at the opportunity.

"How they pulled that off, I don't know," said Mike Heimerdinger, the Broncos' de facto offensive coordinator. "I was as shocked as everybody else. We all had a vote and it was unanimous. I was like, 'Heck, yeah.' It was kind of a no-brainer."



He'll have a good season. I don't think it was this much of a no brainer or other teams would have been offering more. I'm sure TT gave the next bidders a chance to beat it.

I thought it was a "no-brainer" for the Broncos; and, I thought it was idiotic of TT.

Yes, Walker is coming off of a torn up knee, but if healthy, he has the potential to be a top 5 WR... you just don't let those guys walk - unless he's a complete idiot like TO.

Most of the Walker mess was TT's fault... Without rehashing the whole mess - I'll not back off of that position.

Walker may not put up "franchise" type numbers b/c of recovery time from the injury, and a new QB/system; but, in time, I expect he'll be back to pro bowl form fairly quickly.

[wist43]

The measure of Ted Thompson comes in 2007. It sucks to have to endure another rebuilding season, but realistically that's what we got in 2006.

Team better have winning record in 2007, with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, or Ted's rebuilding project gonna be looking sad.

The good news is, the Packers will likely be drafting fairly high again in next years draft, so hopefully they can target the highest rated WR (not Jarrett), a difference making DE, and some interior OL help.

The Packers have no realistic chance of winning anything for the next few years - we're just looking for progress from the young guys and successive successful drafts.

[MJZiggy]

Since you've already predicted the outcome, why bother playing the games?

[wist43]

ziggy,

I'm looking for progress and improvement... to me 7-9 would represent progress.

They simply have too many issues to deal with and overcome. Never mind the fact that they have no playmakers on offense, and no pass rush on defense. Beyound those realities, McCarthy is a complete unknown and, forgive me for saying this, he has, at times, looked like a deer in the headlights - all the while saying all the right things.

Beyond that, they also have two new coordinators who have never done it before... So, the 3 main people in charge of making the day-to-day camp decisions, and game day decisions, are all 3 completely new to those positions - there are going to be growing pains.

The run blocking scheme is new, and the newly acquired talent on both sides of the ball, can't be expected to come in and perform at a pro bowl level, etc....

Then, looking ahead, suppose Favre hangs em up this next off season... Rodgers is going to take time to develop - surely you don't think that he'll have the Packers in the playoffs in his first season as a starter??? Not with the limited talent around him.

Clearly, REALISTICALLY, it's going to take a few years.

[MJZiggy]

See, Wist, that's where you and I are different. You see no proven playmakers, I see young playters with the opportunity to step up. You see a coaching staff that's never been at their level before and I see a very professional head coach who is rumored to have the respect of his qb and that no other coach or coordinator has the ability to plan against. They don't know what we're going to do. And remind me again why it's impossible for men to play at a pro bowl level simply because they're new to the team. As I recall, Favre, Driver, Harris and (was Woodson there) have spent time in Hawaii. Realistically, who's to say Tausch doesn't go this year? And with something to prove, perhaps we'll see Harris repeat as well. Rodgers, God willing has another year to learn from the best and if you look in the change in demeanor that BF shows to AR, you will see that AR is earning his respect. They talk more, AR will learn more. Maybe it's not so clear after all?

[Chester Marcol]

Rastak, since when were you on a first name basis with that wide reciever from Oakland?


We go way back HH.

Remember back when Moss ran over the meter maid and they found a joint in his car? He said it was his friend's. That was Rastak's weed.

[RashanGary]

Wist,

It's the start of the 2004 off season. You are Ted Thompson and Walker/Rosenhaus ask for top 5 WR money. What do you do? I want to hear what the brilliant Wist would have done to make this situation better.

[wist43]

Wist,

It's the start of the 2004 off season. You are Ted Thompson and Walker/Rosenhaus ask for top 5 WR money. What do you do? I want to hear what the brilliant Wist would have done to make this situation better.

I'm an "old timer" on these sites... everyone, or at least I thought everyone, knows my stance on that - I wouldn't have waited for Walker and his agent to come to me, I would have gone to them.

And given the cap situation back then, I would have told them - would have given them "my word" - that as soon as the cap is in order, we'll redo the deal.

In 1994 Aaron Taylor was reluctant to participate in the minicamps b/c he was afraid of being injured b/4 he signed his contract. Ron Wolfe assured Taylor that if he were injured he would negotiate Taylor's contract as if he were perfectly healthy. Of course, Taylor blew out his knee, and didn't play a down for the Packers that year, and was limited the following year; but, Wolfe was true to his word and did the deal as if there were nothing wrong with Taylor.

That's how you do business with your top flight players. You communicate with them, you let them know that they're wanted, and barring cap complications, you'll do everything possible to ensure they're getting what the market will bear.

Sometimes the $$$$ won't be there, and the player will have to walk, but at least it will be on good terms both professionally and personally.

TT doesn't get that...

Even after Walker blew his knee out, I would have approached him and his agent about an extension. Guys with Walker's physical skills don't come along every day - and to let him walk for just a 2nd round pick was idiotic.

[Creepy]

Same old hash, did he detsroy the Packers or is he saving the Packers?

Agianst TT:

He lost Flanagan, Wahle, Walker, and Rivera on offense. He lost Sharper and Jackosn on defense.

For TT: Flanagan is a C who has been hurt the last two years and has not played up to his prior level. Regardless of injury he is old and injured and needed to be replaced. On Wahle & Rivera he had a choice, lose both or keep one and damage the salary cap. He chose to let both go and is rebuilding through the draft. Sharper is anoth player looking good in hi-lite films but performance was poor overall and getting older. Jackson was a Tub who can't keep from getting bigger is a good thng he is gone as he woudln't fit through the tunnel.

Against TT: No significant FA sigings, Hutchinson, a pass rush DE, any good RB or Tye Law.

For TT: Hutchjinson cost way too much, no really good DE available in FA, Law is a lot of money with little return (age). He did pick up Pickett, drafted Hawk, and picked up Woodson.

Against TT: Didn't make Gates HC. Coached a low talent defense to a top ten finish and hired the OC of the 32d ranked offense. Lost a possible good HC and replaced him with pretty slim choice, ala Ray Rhodes and Rhodes had a better reume.

For TT: Needed to get GB back to the WC offense and Gates was not an offensive genius. PIcked a coach who had worked with Favre before and knows the WC offense well and retained Gates assistant who has worked in the Gates style defense so no change in defensive play.

This could go on and on and on and on. Same old hash. It is time to wait for the games and see what he has really put together. IF GB makes the play-offs the Pro-TT people will gloat. GB falls on its face both offensivley and defensively and the Anti-TT people will be happy.

GB plays avergae football and both sides will spin it to their liking. Anti-TT will balme him for not making a play-off contention team and Pro-TT will claim he did a great job with a 4-12 team.

The only way this gets settled is if GB wins the SB, then one side will have nothng to say. Even if right on some points it won't matter. Same is true if GB falls to 2-14, nobody will support him or anything else.

IMHO, I am not for or agianst TT. I like some of the things he has done and I hate some of the other moves. By the end of this year I will have a better understanding.

[RashanGary]

I'm an "old timer" on these sites... everyone, or at least I thought everyone, knows my stance on that - I wouldn't have waited for Walker and his agent to come to me, I would have gone to them.

And given the cap situation back then, I would have told them - would have given them "my word" - that as soon as the cap is in order, we'll redo the deal.

In 1994 Aaron Taylor was reluctant to participate in the minicamps b/c he was afraid of being injured b/4 he signed his contract. Ron Wolfe assured Taylor that if he were injured he would negotiate Taylor's contract as if he were perfectly healthy. Of course, Taylor blew out his knee, and didn't play a down for the Packers that year, and was limited the following year; but, Wolfe was true to his word and did the deal as if there were nothing wrong with Taylor.

That's how you do business with your top flight players. You communicate with them, you let them know that they're wanted, and barring cap complications, you'll do everything possible to ensure they're getting what the market will bear.

Sometimes the $$$$ won't be there, and the player will have to walk, but at least it will be on good terms both professionally and personally.

TT doesn't get that...

Even after Walker blew his knee out, I would have approached him and his agent about an extension. Guys with Walker's physical skills don't come along every day - and to let him walk for just a 2nd round pick was idiotic.

Nice option.

[woodbuck27]

Wist,

It's the start of the 2004 off season. You are Ted Thompson and Walker/Rosenhaus ask for top 5 WR money. What do you do? I want to hear what the brilliant Wist would have done to make this situation better.

You do exactly as TT did.

If you have to this season you trade him as TT did.

The difference is:

TT had to get something REAL for NOW for OUR "O", to use in 2006 in liew of losing Javon Walker !!

[Bretsky]

I just read that excellent article.

I'll shoot from the hip here.I havn't read any of your responses but will read the thread after this post.

When I watch what Donald Driver does as a WR I am impressed with the effort he puts forth to make him as effective as he is. DD flat out works his butt off and he can run excellent routes and jig and jag for extra yards and the house after a spectacular catch in traffic. We are very fortunate to have this marvelous WR.

JAVON WALKER. This young man catch's the ball in traffic with outstanding coordination and athleticism.He is nothing short of spectacular in the way he hauls pass's in. Javon's the thouroughbred and Donald's the quarter horse.

It sickens me that we lost this fine WR that we drafted in round one.

HE IS A FIRST ROUND PICK ! Certainly not a bust ala Jamal Reynolds and we lost him and didn't substitute for his talent at his position to date.

That is BULLSHIT on behalf of Ted Thompson.

As we enter TC we see Donald Driver and . . . who in hell will it be at #2. We shouldn't have that doubt entering TC unless OUR GM didn't do his job.

Most of you want to be patient with Ted Thompson and dam it . . . I'm getting sucked in to the feel good . . . lets just give Ole Ted a chance to prove this or that in this or that area of concern.

BULLSHIT !!!

In two seasons as OUR GM. He has allowed OUR fine OL to go to absolute ruin in the middle and Ted's left us nothing more. . .

than a wish and a prayer with what may be plugged into that OL.

On top of that:

1. We have to wonder who will be OUR RB's (three of them coming off leg injuries. .THREE of THEM????? Uhhhh !!!

2.and to get back on topic - OUR #2 WR? Who's that going to be??? DD and who else ???? Good grief. I'm not buying into that.

Brett Favre wasn't buying into that either. The REAL story will one day be revealed. Ted Thompson is screwing us so cleverly that most of you arn't even aware of it.

Brett Favre certainly is.

We should not be wondering about so many areas !

I'm wondering about OUR GM ????

If he was going to not make any real effort to bring Javon Walker back to the fold . . . and he had solid reasons to just trade him - fine. Yet then, it comes down to fair exchange and I hate this . . . well we'll just have to wait and see how all those Rookies pan out.

We lost a top five WR and possibly a top three WR in the NFL folks . . and we are wondering who we have that deserves to line up with Donald Driver???

That sucks and TT is to blame.

Javon Walker gone . . . and well . . . we have Rod Gardner and Marc Boerigter and maybe Robert Ferguson will finaly get there (agains) does not equal the game that Javon Walker brought to us.

CLASSIC POST; sounds like something good enough to win an award on the Jim Rome Show

SORRY folks but I'm a NOW Packer fan . . . and NOW . . .

we are SCREWED !!

[Bretsky]

In late April, Walker couldn't fully extend his right leg.


So a full 7 months removed from surgery and he still didn't have 100% range of motion? I had the exact same thing to my left knee. I was at 90% at the 4 month mark and 100% at the 5 month mark and my job has nothing to do with athletics.

If he cant be bothered to at least be rehabbing harder than that, this is going to be an ugly year for him. You cannot run until your ROM is 100% and the fully extending part comes way before fully bent in your gait.

ZOOL,

As my five year old would scream, "That's not fair" !

A torn ACL rehab can go many many different ways. Some rehab it quickly and some never get it fully back.

I had a serious ACL tear and rehabbed it well. But my knee will never get to 100%. I'd guess it's in the 95% range; there is never a day when I don't know I hurt my knee.

That could happen to JW. Look at NFL examples on what players did after tearning the ACL. Willis MacGahee and Lee Evans both didn't excel until their second year back from the tear. I've predicted all along JW will have a decent year this year and then excel next year and the years after.

I too played sports and found year one after the tear to work through the pain and soreness and year 2 it was as good as it was going to be.

[Zool]

In late April, Walker couldn't fully extend his right leg.


So a full 7 months removed from surgery and he still didn't have 100% range of motion? I had the exact same thing to my left knee. I was at 90% at the 4 month mark and 100% at the 5 month mark and my job has nothing to do with athletics.

If he cant be bothered to at least be rehabbing harder than that, this is going to be an ugly year for him. You cannot run until your ROM is 100% and the fully extending part comes way before fully bent in your gait.

ZOOL,

As my five year old would scream, "That's not fair" !

A torn ACL rehab can go many many different ways. Some rehab it quickly and some never get it fully back.

I had a serious ACL tear and rehabbed it well. But my knee will never get to 100%. I'd guess it's in the 95% range; there is never a day when I don't know I hurt my knee.

That could happen to JW. Look at NFL examples on what players did after tearning the ACL. Willis MacGahee and Lee Evans both didn't excel until their second year back from the tear. I've predicted all along JW will have a decent year this year and then excel next year and the years after.

I too played sports and found year one after the tear to work through the pain and soreness and year 2 it was as good as it was going to be.

100% or not, 100% range of motion should easily be met by everyone within a 6 month period if running is a large portion of their careers. I was on a stationary bike 4 days out of surgery. The joint being back to 100% strength isnt what I mean. He should at least be able to extend his leg 100%, not even bend but extend.

I would agree that my knee didnt feel right for about 2 years, but I was running in a pool at about 7 months. My hospital has some cool sports rehab stuff, and the same surgeon that did Terrell Davis' surgery did mine.

What I'm trying to say is that it doesnt seem like he's progressing like he should be. Perhaps I'm wrong or perhaps the article wasnt entirely accurate. 100% extension is the first milestone on your "GOALS CHART" when you start rehab. At least mine was.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, most say Walker is ahead of schedule in his rehab. He had a serious tear. Like him or not, Walker is a very hard worker. If you've ever read about his workout regiment in Phoenix, you'd see a guy cut in the Jerry Rice/Ahman Green mold.

[Partial]

Actually, most say Walker is ahead of schedule in his rehab. He had a serious tear. Like him or not, Walker is a very hard worker. If you've ever read about his workout regiment in Phoenix, you'd see a guy cut in the Jerry Rice/Ahman Green mold.

Doesn't he work out with TO, or atleast did the year he added 15 pounds?

[Bossman641]

I don't think you can blame Walker's limited mobility on a lack of motivation to work out. From what I've heard he is an absolute freak. He worked out with TO 2 years ago during the offseason.

I hated to see Walker go. Before he turned into an idiot he was my favorite player on the team. I'll definitely be watching his numbers this year.

[RashanGary]

Actually, most say Walker is ahead of schedule in his rehab. He had a serious tear. Like him or not, Walker is a very hard worker. If you've ever read about his workout regiment in Phoenix, you'd see a guy cut in the Jerry Rice/Ahman Green mold.

Walker will be 100% just like Steve Smith. There are no harder workers than Walker in the league. There are a bunch who are just like him, but none better. He'll be in tip top shap and his knee will be just like Smith's, as good as new.

[woodbuck27]

Actually, most say Walker is ahead of schedule in his rehab. He had a serious tear. Like him or not, Walker is a very hard worker. If you've ever read about his workout regiment in Phoenix, you'd see a guy cut in the Jerry Rice/Ahman Green mold.

Walker will be 100% just like Steve Smith. There are no harder workers than Walker in the league. There are a bunch who are just like him, but none better. He'll be in tip top shap and his knee will be just like Smith's, as good as new.

We lost him and he has enormous potential and I don't wish for him to fall flat on his face.

If he dedicates himself to working really hard I believe, he'll be just - really fine ! I look forward to seeing the FULL Javon Walker, and I wish him well.

He showed me some unbelievable talent at WR while he was a Packer.

It sucks to have lost him.

[Creepy]

Couldn't honor his contract, so hope he falls flat on his face. Hope he shows the great play thet Freeman did after his injury, or even Robert Brooks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Couldn't honor his contract, so hope he falls flat on his face.

I'm with you on this one. I root for ex-Packers like Reggie when he left or Dorsey Levens or Edgar Bennett. I don't hope the likes of McKenzie and Walker do well. McKenzie stunk last year on a horrible team. I hope that continues. While I don't wish ill on Walker, obviously, I hope he's nowhere near as good in Denver as he was in 2004 in Green Bay.

[wist43]

No sympathy for McKenzie, but I don't blame Walker one iota...

The whole Walker mess was TT's fault. We've battled this point ad nauseum in the past, so I'm not going to rehash it; but, to me, TT was horribly short sighted, and as a result, we lost our best player.

I hope Walker kicks ass in Denver.

[RashanGary]

I'm a pretty big T2 fan and also fan of everything Packers. It's hard for me to be happy with Woodson when that money could have went to Walker. :sad:

Mistakes are part of the territory. So far I see 2 big ones. Wahle, Walker. Who knows how that will play out. His knee might never be the same although I think he'll be 100%.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't blame Thompson one bit for Walker. You can't set a precedent for giving into a guy who had one good year in three. He was overpaid his first two years. That $5M signing bonus got the Packers less than 65 catches combined his first two years. Walker is a jackass. I put this up to a Vikings fan friend of mine. Let's say Troy Williamson, after the huge signing bonus he got, followed Walker's steps. They had almost identical rookies years. Let's say Williamson grabs only 40 balls this year, has a great third year, and then holds out to get a pay increase after 2007. Would you cave into his demands and give him big money then--when he has 3 years left on his contract and had one good year in three? I don't think most teams or GMs would.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Damn double post.

[Bretsky]

I don't blame Thompson one bit for Walker. You can't set a precedent for giving into a guy who had one good year in three. He was overpaid his first two years. That $5M signing bonus got the Packers less than 65 catches combined his first two years. Walker is a jackass. I put this up to a Vikings fan friend of mine. Let's say Troy Williamson, after the huge signing bonus he got, followed Walker's steps. They had almost identical rookies years. Let's say Williamson grabs only 40 balls this year, has a great third year, and then holds out to get a pay increase after 2007. Would you cave into his demands and give him big money then--when he has 3 years left on his contract and had one good year in three? I don't think most teams or GMs would.


It sounds like Ted Thompson could have communicated his intentions to Walker better IMO; unless his intentions were not to redo the deal until after the contract was over.

Sometimes you need to massage an ego or two to keep them; takes a little bit of customer service skills that maybe TT doesn't wish to have.

Just a few unsubstantiated thoughts on my belief that the Packers failed to adequately communicate with JW.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It sounds like Ted Thompson could have communicated his intentions to Walker better IMO; unless his intentions were not to redo the deal until after the contract was over.

Sometimes you need to massage an ego or two to keep them; takes a little bit of customer service skills that maybe TT doesn't wish to have.

Just a few unsubstantiated thoughts on my belief that the Packers failed to adequately communicate with JW.

Nobody really knows that. For all we know, Thompson could have told Walker's agent that the Packers wanted him long-term and were willing to re-work his deal after he proved himself for another year and Walker was too impatient to make it work out.

[the_idle_threat]

Actually, most say Walker is ahead of schedule in his rehab. He had a serious tear. Like him or not, Walker is a very hard worker. If you've ever read about his workout regiment in Phoenix, you'd see a guy cut in the Jerry Rice/Ahman Green mold.

Walker will be 100% just like Steve Smith. There are no harder workers than Walker in the league. There are a bunch who are just like him, but none better. He'll be in tip top shap and his knee will be just like Smith's, as good as new.

Apples and oranges. Steve Smith had a broken leg, not a blown ACL. A blown-out knee is a much more serious injury.

[Bretsky]

Actually, most say Walker is ahead of schedule in his rehab. He had a serious tear. Like him or not, Walker is a very hard worker. If you've ever read about his workout regiment in Phoenix, you'd see a guy cut in the Jerry Rice/Ahman Green mold.

Walker will be 100% just like Steve Smith. There are no harder workers than Walker in the league. There are a bunch who are just like him, but none better. He'll be in tip top shap and his knee will be just like Smith's, as good as new.

Apples and oranges. Steve Smith had a broken leg, not a blown ACL. A blown-out knee is a much more serious injury.


Great points; Torn ACL is much worse than broken leg in terms of recovery time and abilily to get back to 100%. It's very possible JW will not be true 100% until the year after next. Look at past history. Lee Evans, Willis McGahee..etc. Most aren't back to full capacity first year back.

[Bretsky]

It sounds like Ted Thompson could have communicated his intentions to Walker better IMO; unless his intentions were not to redo the deal until after the contract was over.

Sometimes you need to massage an ego or two to keep them; takes a little bit of customer service skills that maybe TT doesn't wish to have.

Just a few unsubstantiated thoughts on my belief that the Packers failed to adequately communicate with JW.

Nobody really knows that. For all we know, Thompson could have told Walker's agent that the Packers wanted him long-term and were willing to re-work his deal after he proved himself for another year and Walker was too impatient to make it work out.


You are probably right in that TT told his agent that.

IF I were TT, I'd have did some communicating to Javon Walker myself. And I don't know if it happened or not; but that'd be a way of stroking/manipulating his ego that I think athletes take in and thrive on.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You are probably right

Thems fightin' words.
:D

[Bretsky]

You are probably right

Thems fightin' words.
:D

I'm softening you up for fantasy ball. I've already got my catch phrases down. Harvey has been hands down the most effective GM this year and has set himself up to make a run at the playoffs and win a title..etc :wink:

You must give me some credit though; when you were sitting at about .500 last year I looked at the rosters and moves and called out your winning streak.

[RashanGary]

I thought Steve Smith had an ACL. It was a very similar tackle to the one Walker went out on.

[Creepy]

Please name the WR who have come back from ACL tears and had great seasons. Broks tore his an never was the same and as faras I know nobody else has come back atthe WR position tostardom after such an injury.

I know other positions have, but they wear leg braces or knee braces while playing. At WR you can't have that stugh around the knee as it wil slow you down. IMHO, Walker has more of a chance to be an average player for the rest of his carreer than he does beingthe same WR in 2004. Getting a 2 may be the best deal TT has made.

[Zool]

I thought Steve Smith had an ACL. It was a very similar tackle to the one Walker went out on.

Broken leg if I remember right.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Please name the WR who have come back from ACL tears and had great seasons. Broks tore his an never was the same and as faras I know nobody else has come back atthe WR position tostardom after such an injury.

I know other positions have, but they wear leg braces or knee braces while playing. At WR you can't have that stugh around the knee as it wil slow you down. IMHO, Walker has more of a chance to be an average player for the rest of his carreer than he does beingthe same WR in 2004. Getting a 2 may be the best deal TT has made.

ACLs are nothing nowadays. A lot of guys come back and say they are stronger. Lee Evans, Steve Smith, Jerry Rice, Joey Galloway, Mark Boerigter, Bobby Engram, Mark Bradley have all come back from torn ACLs.

Nowadays most teams have at least a handful of players who have come back from ACL tears. Many of them are WRs, RBs, and CBs. Braylon Edwards will be attempting to come back from a torn ACL that he got in week 13 last year.

[Bretsky]

Please name the WR who have come back from ACL tears and had great seasons. Broks tore his an never was the same and as faras I know nobody else has come back atthe WR position tostardom after such an injury.

I know other positions have, but they wear leg braces or knee braces while playing. At WR you can't have that stugh around the knee as it wil slow you down. IMHO, Walker has more of a chance to be an average player for the rest of his carreer than he does beingthe same WR in 2004. Getting a 2 may be the best deal TT has made.

ACLs are nothing nowadays. A lot of guys come back and say they are stronger. Lee Evans, Steve Smith, Jerry Rice, Joey Galloway, Mark Boerigter, Bobby Engram, Mark Bradley have all come back from torn ACLs.

Nowadays most teams have at least a handful of players who have come back from ACL tears. Many of them are WRs, RBs, and CBs. Braylon Edwards will be attempting to come back from a torn ACL that he got in week 13 last year.

Well, to play devil's advocate, it took Lee Evans two seasons to hit full stride as he missed one season at UW and still played through a lot of pain his senior year. Willis McGahee as well.

Wait, Steve Smith and Jerry Rice didn't tear their ACL's, did they ? I thought Smith had a different injury and Jerry Rice as well. But I may be wrong.

Galloway came back nice. The other yahoos on that list haven't accomplished much before or after the injury.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He wasn't talking about coming back the next season.


IMHO, Walker has more of a chance to be an average player for the rest of his carreer than he does beingthe same WR in 2004.

"Following 11 consecutive Pro Bowl, 1,000-yard receiving seasons, Rice missed virtually the entire 1997 NFL season after he sustained a torn ACL in the 49ers' opening game. Rice returned to Pro Bowl form in 1998."

Have read some reports that said Smith torn his ACL and others that said he broke his fibula.

Bobby Engram came back and had a very nice year last year. In fact, he's better now than he was before the injury.

Joey Galloway has come back.

Boerigter may not have amounted to crap, but I haven't heard any reports that he's lost any of his speed.

Evans and McGahee have come back.

Mark Bradley tore his ACL in college, and has come back enough that he ended up being a high draft pick for the Bears.

To say Walker will never be the same is going way too far--especially with how hard Javon works in rehab.

[woodbuck27]

Nice debate fellas.

Styling ! :mrgreen:

[Zool]

Please name the WR who have come back from ACL tears and had great seasons. Broks tore his an never was the same and as faras I know nobody else has come back atthe WR position tostardom after such an injury.

I know other positions have, but they wear leg braces or knee braces while playing. At WR you can't have that stugh around the knee as it wil slow you down. IMHO, Walker has more of a chance to be an average player for the rest of his carreer than he does beingthe same WR in 2004. Getting a 2 may be the best deal TT has made.

ACLs are nothing nowadays. A lot of guys come back and say they are stronger. Lee Evans, Steve Smith, Jerry Rice, Joey Galloway, Mark Boerigter, Bobby Engram, Mark Bradley have all come back from torn ACLs.

Nowadays most teams have at least a handful of players who have come back from ACL tears. Many of them are WRs, RBs, and CBs. Braylon Edwards will be attempting to come back from a torn ACL that he got in week 13 last year.

Well, to play devil's advocate, it took Lee Evans two seasons to hit full stride as he missed one season at UW and still played through a lot of pain his senior year. Willis McGahee as well.

Wait, Steve Smith and Jerry Rice didn't tear their ACL's, did they ? I thought Smith had a different injury and Jerry Rice as well. But I may be wrong.

Galloway came back nice. The other yahoos on that list haven't accomplished much before or after the injury.

Rice tore his ACL and came back in that same season, only to dislocate his knee cap a couple games later. He came back too soon.

Smith broke his leg.

[Partial]

Please name the WR who have come back from ACL tears and had great seasons. Broks tore his an never was the same and as faras I know nobody else has come back atthe WR position tostardom after such an injury.

I know other positions have, but they wear leg braces or knee braces while playing. At WR you can't have that stugh around the knee as it wil slow you down. IMHO, Walker has more of a chance to be an average player for the rest of his carreer than he does beingthe same WR in 2004. Getting a 2 may be the best deal TT has made.

So I am looking for some statistics on this matter using google. Needless to say, I think this is a question for the one and only and recently name-changed Patler.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Thompson pulled off a great swindle.

2444 yards in 4 seasons is not the production of a great receiver.

Lack of analytic ability and Wonderlic score of 8 hinder learning a new offense and more than one position.

He turns 28 this year. Does he still have 4.4 speed after the injury? How many years can he play?

It is near the time where he no longer has potential but lack of production.

Until otherwise proven he was a one year guy.

[Partial]

Thompson pulled off a great swindle.

2444 yards in 4 seasons is not the production of a great receiver.

Lack of analytic ability and Wonderlic score of 8 hinder learning a new offense and more than one position.

He turns 28 this year. Does he still have 4.4 speed after the injury? How many years can he play?

It is near the time where he no longer has potential but lack of production.

Until otherwise proven he was a one year guy.

Yes but you can slant any stats like that. The kid played what two years college ball after trying to play baseball? He is a straight up baller. It takes a long time to learn the receiver positions. There are very few people who come in and dominate like Randy Moss. As you may recall, it took TO about 3-4 years before he was even considered a good receiver. Now he's one of the best receivers in the game.

Walker is young in football years and will be a player again. I don't buy that crap. GB got robbed.

[Bretsky]

Thompson pulled off a great swindle.

2444 yards in 4 seasons is not the production of a great receiver.

Lack of analytic ability and Wonderlic score of 8 hinder learning a new offense and more than one position.

He turns 28 this year. Does he still have 4.4 speed after the injury? How many years can he play?

It is near the time where he no longer has potential but lack of production.

Until otherwise proven he was a one year guy.

To say TT swindles Denver is nuts; Javon Walker was one of the top 8 WR's hands down in the NFL before injured, and in all probability he will be 100% in the future.

His worth healthy was far more than a #1; his worth currently should have been more than a #2.

ALL of this agreed on this when word first came out that JW might be traded. Everybody in here banked on at least a FIRST round draft pick, and then our homerism allowed many to be content with a #2.

I think it's far more probably that Denver swindled us by only giving up a #2 for one of the best talents in the NFL at WR.

[Tony Oday]

hmm a pissed off player that said he will never play another down for the packers and we got a 2nd? good solid deal. Pepper was traded for a 2nd rounder and he is a franchise QB. Corey Dillon 2nd rounder. A second rounder is a nice pick for a one year wonder.

[Bretsky]

TT let the crybaby have his way; gave him the easy way out.

Javon Walker played TT like a flute this off season. I give TT no credit for that.

Like him or not, Packer Homer or Not, Javon Walker was being recognized as one of the top WR's in the NFL before injury. And we felt that way; funny how soon that is forgotten.

[MJZiggy]

I still say if TT hadn't had that deal fall into his lap on draft day, all we'd hear about is JWalk and his holdout--and you can't say that he wouldn't hold out because of the extra fine because TT had no way of knowing that they were going to make that particular adjustment to the CBA. JWalk would still be here threatening to retire, sitting out and no one would be talking about the promise we see in Jennings or R.Martin or if the o-line kids are gonna handle it or how AJ will do. It would be all JWalk, all the time. I can do without that.

[green_bowl_packer]

I thought Steve Smith broke his leg in the first game of the season in 2004 on Monday Night Football against the Packers and we kicked their ass

[Harlan Huckleby]

nice 'tar, Green_Bowl_Packer

[woodbuck27]

nice 'tar, Green_Bowl_Packer

Yes ! Welcome to the PRIMO Packer Site on the WWW.

POST often and long. . .

but for GOD sakes don't post no sense - because we are used - to being confused. :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

nice 'tar, Green_Bowl_Packer

Yes ! Welcome to the PRIMO Packer Site on the WWW.

POST often and long. . .

but for GOD sakes don't post no sense - because we are used - to being
confused. :mrgreen:

DAM !! Don't - whatever you do . . NO ! NO ! NO !

DON'T CLICK on that WWW up there -

as Lord Thunderin', YOU may go on a trip WORSE - than Dorothy and visiting along with. . . " the Wizard of Oz ".

[Bretsky]

I thought Steve Smith broke his leg in the first game of the season in 2004 on Monday Night Football against the Packers and we kicked their ass

Pretty sure you are right

[MadtownPacker]

hmm a pissed off player that said he will never play another down for the packers and we got a 2nd? good solid deal. Pepper was traded for a 2nd rounder and he is a franchise QB. Corey Dillon 2nd rounder. A second rounder is a nice pick for a one year wonder.
Best post of the night! But lets be fair, 1 1/2 year wonder. :mrgreen:

The traitor is not exactly a youngster (28 in October) and is stupid to boot. He will be lucky to cash in on that deal the donkeys gave him. He might come back 100% but alot of those players mentioned besides rice's old ass where young when they got hurt and might have been able to recover faster. Either way I hope he stays healthy and sucks.

[the_idle_threat]

Steve Smith suffered a broken leg ... not an ACL tear. Here is one of many articles describing the injury:

*****************
Panthers lose WR Steve Smith to broken leg (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/NFLNews.jsp?id=865)

CHARLOTTE, North Carolina (Ticker) -- Last season, the Carolina Panthers got plenty of breaks along the way in reaching the Super Bowl for the first time in club history. This season, they already are dealing with a tough break.
Wide receiver Steve Smith, the main cog in the Panthers' passing game, underwent surgery for a broken left fibula Tuesday and will be sidelined indefinitely.

"He's not out for the season, but anything after that, I don't know at this point," Panthers coach John Fox said Tuesday. "That would be purely speculation on my point without talking to the doctors."

Smith suffered the injury in the fourth quarter of Monday's season-opening 24-14 loss to the Green Bay Packers after getting tackled following a catch.

Signed to a $27.5 million contract in the offseason, Smith is an integeral part for the Panthers both offensively and on special teams.

Last season, Smith established career highs in receptions (88), yards (1,110), and touchdowns (seven). He also averaged 28.1 yards on kickoff returns and also returned punts.

Second-round pick Keary Colbert, who was inactive against Green Bay, is expected in Smith's place.
********************

Some other sources may be saying it was an ACL tear, but those sources are wrong.

[wist43]

You guys need to be clear about your terms - "one year wonder" would apply to a journeyman who suddenly has a big year, i.e. Drew Bennett, or Mushin Muhammad.

Javon Walker on the other hand, was an up and coming receiver who was "breaking out"... His big year was a sign of bigger things to come, not a fluke.

To say a guy is a "one year wonder" is to say that he is a fluke - Javon Walker is no fluke. He's a big-time talent, and TT was an idiot to let him get away.

[Harlan Huckleby]

the "one year wonder" chorus are just the sour grapes guys.

[Partial]

the "one year wonder" chorus are just the sour grapes guys.

exactly

[CaliforniaCheez]

So Walker got over 800 yards one season and you think he is not a one year wonder?

It happened to be the same year Driver was carted off early in the year with a neck injury and Ferguson got carted off later in the year with a season ending injury.

Walker only started 18 games in his 4 seasons in Green Bay. If he was so good one would think he would start. During his "one year wonder" he started 12 games. That year Driver only started 11 due to injury and Ferguson only started 5 due to the previously mentioned injury.

54% of his TD's, 56% of his career yards, 59% of his first downs and 66% of his starts came in only one of his 4 years(2004).

In the last 4 years Donald Driver has 4114 yards averaging over a thousand yards a season. Walker had 2444 in his 4 seasons averaging 611 yards.
Driver has had 292 catches in 4 years and Walker 157.
To say Walker was top receiver on the Packers let alone "top 8 in the league" is not accurate.

Stats, production, and reliability can be measured and are not manipulated.

A second round pick for a back up player is a swindle.

One year wonder is an appropriate label until Walker demonstrates otherwise.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't know where you're coming from, Cheezy. The injury to Javon Walker changes everything, he is now a risk. But I think most fans could see Javon Walker's play on the field and understand he was a special talent. It doesn't matter that it took him a couple years in the league to get in gear, which is all your stats show.

[woodbuck27]

I don't know where you're coming from, Cheezy. The injury to Javon Walker changes everything, he is now a risk. But I think most fans could see Javon Walker's play on the field and understand he was a special talent. It doesn't matter that it took him a couple years in the league to get in gear, which is all your stats show.

All that fox, Mike Shanahan gave up for that calculated risk was a DAM second round pick and nothing to cost the Bronco's for today - this season and next.

T2 decided to roll the dice and that DAM Shanahan got the prize.

It's always the Shanahan way it seems. SMART GM.