Green Bay carrying lowly Vikings?

[]{ilr]3]

I hate Jerry Jones. I think he is the next Al Davis, but does he have a point here?

I almost hate tp agree with anything the crypt keeper says, but.....


Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones offered his perspective on the Vikings need for a new stadium.

"Right now, we are subsidizing this market," Jones said of NFL owners. "It's unthinkable to think that you've got the market you got here - 3 ½ million people - and have teams like Kansas City and Green Bay subsidizing the market. That will stop.

"That's going to stop. That's on its way out."

Jones was referring to revenue sharing, which may end after the current Collective Bargaining Agreement expires next year.

Jones challenged leaders in Minnesota to step up and help owners Zygi and Mark Wilf get a new stadium to replace the Metrodome.

"It's going to take leadership," Jones said. "It can't happen unless you've got real public leaders. They really do have to accept and recognize or educate their constituents on just how important it is to the growth of Minnesota."

While owners vote on Super Bowl sites by secret ballot, Jones said he would vote for one in the Twin Cities... if they build a new stadium.

"Yes, I'd want them to have a Super Bowl here, with a new stadium," he said. "I think it would be something that would be very realistic."

[Lurker64]

Personally, I hope that Zygi Wilf builds the outdoor stadium (without a roof) he said he wanted (without public financing), and Jerry follows through on voting for a superbowl in Minnesota, and somehow it ends up winning.

An early february superbowl in Minneapolis would be great. If it happens, we can almost guarantee getting one in Lambeau someday.

[KYPack]

Haven't heard the LA rumors in awhile.

Some are saying Jax may look to LaLa land.

If the Vikes don't get a stadium, will they go west?

[HowardRoark]

Haven't heard the LA rumors in awhile.

Some are saying Jax may look to LaLa land.

If the Vikes don't get a stadium, will they go west?

The zeitgeist ain't good for Zygi and his stadium up here.

[SnakeLH2006]

Go kick a punt into your scoreboard........................................ ..............................................then suck my nuts.

[Fritz]

What if ol' Jerr gets mixed up and kicks a punt into your nuts and then tries to suck the scoreboard?

On a more serious note, I get so pissed at these owners whining about public money for private use. I'd like to read more about the supposed economic benefit to a city that ponies up for a new stadium for some already-rich guy.

[Scott Campbell]

How much public money did Jones get for his stadium?

[Tarlam!]

How much public money did Jones get for his stadium?

Couldn't tell you, since I don't know anything about your tax write offs. But, if he'd built it in Munich or Sydney, then, just about every penny would have been taxpayers' money.

I'm thinking it's pretty similar where he built it.

[]{ilr]3]

How much public money did Jones get for his stadium?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboys_Stadium


Originally estimated to cost $650 million, the stadium's current construction cost was $1.15 billion, making it one of the most expensive sports venues ever built.[8] To aid Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones in paying the construction costs of the new stadium, Arlington voters approved the increase of the city's sales tax by one-half of a percent, the hotel occupancy tax by 2 percent, and car rental tax by 5 percent. The City of Arlington provided over $933 million (including interest) in bonds as funding [9], and Jones covered any cost overruns. Also, the NFL provided the Cowboys with an additional $150 million, as per their policy for giving teams a certain lump sum of money for stadium financing.

[Scott Campbell]

So if that's correct, Jones paid very little of his own money?

Ridiculous.

[Tarlam!]

So if that's correct, Jones paid very little of his own money?

Ridiculous.

Would've been the same in Sydney or Munich.

[Badgerinmaine]

Personally, I hope that Zygi Wilf builds the outdoor stadium (without a roof) he said he wanted (without public financing), and Jerry follows through on voting for a superbowl in Minnesota, and somehow it ends up winning.

An early february superbowl in Minneapolis would be great. If it happens, we can almost guarantee getting one in Lambeau someday.

I think that would be fantastic, too, but there is no way I can see that the corporate sponsors of the NFL will ever swallow an outdoor cold weather Super Bowl.

[Fritz]

Couple of things:

First, here's a link to a good Star-Telegram story regarding funding. Essentially, it says that the City of Arlington ponied up about 325 million of the original 650 million dollar estimate, but cost overruns drove that up to $1.15 billion. To cover the overruns, Jerry is borrowing money from . . . the public!

http://www.star-telegram.com/stadium/story/937327.html

Secondly, Tar, a couple of questions:

First, do owners of sports teams - private citizens - then continue to own/control the facilities? Jones controls his facility, despite the massive amount of outright gift money and the public loans.

Secondly, what's your point that it would be the same in Sydney or Munich?

But getting back to my original post, it irks me that Jerry Jones can whine about his corporation, the NFL, subsidizing certain owners, yet he himself is subsidized by public money.

[Tarlam!]

Fritz, there is almost no private ownership in Germany. I haven't lived in Sydney for 20 years, 2 Months and 6 Days so, I pretty much lost private ownership after Kerry Packer fucked everything up with Rugby League and Cricket.

My point is pretty simple; the taxpayer always pays. Always. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that that's how it is.

[pbmax]

Couple of things:

First, here's a link to a good Star-Telegram story regarding funding. Essentially, it says that the City of Arlington ponied up about 325 million of the original 650 million dollar estimate, but cost overruns drove that up to $1.15 billion. To cover the overruns, Jerry is borrowing money from . . . the public!

http://www.star-telegram.com/stadium/story/937327.html

Secondly, Tar, a couple of questions:

First, do owners of sports teams - private citizens - then continue to own/control the facilities? Jones controls his facility, despite the massive amount of outright gift money and the public loans.

Secondly, what's your point that it would be the same in Sydney or Munich?

But getting back to my original post, it irks me that Jerry Jones can whine about his corporation, the NFL, subsidizing certain owners, yet he himself is subsidized by public money.
To Jones credit, only (ONLY!) $114 million of the cost overruns were paid from bonds issued on behalf of taxpayers. And he has guaranteed that money gets paid with revenue from the stadium.

Personal Seat Licenses account for the vast majority of the rest of the funding of the overruns.

The big questions is how the hell did he manage to nearly double his estimate? There are any number of possible explanations, but what I find most objectionable is that we will never know.

Because Jones' financial situation with this stadium has a direct bearing on the NFL CBA labor snafu we are about to enjoy. If this Class 1A Moron is about to throw the NFL in labor strife because of gold plated faucet taps in his offices and suites, then I hope he move the Cowboys to Munich. :)

[Scott Campbell]

My point is pretty simple; the taxpayer always pays. Always.


Larry Miller paid for the Utah Jazz arena completely on his own. He couldn't borrow the money locally, as nobody thought he'd be able to make the payments. He finally ended up borrowing money from Japanese lenders. He paid them back in it's entirety, and early.

[Tarlam!]

My point is pretty simple; the taxpayer always pays. Always.


Larry Miller paid for the Utah Jazz arena completely on his own. He couldn't borrow the money locally, as nobody thought he'd be able to make the payments. He finally ended up borrowing money from Japanese lenders. He paid them back in it's entirety, and early.

Quick question: How much was he able to deduct from his taxable income?

I'm sorry, this belongs in the FYI Forum and I don't want to hijack this thread. My point is really basic. Stop all tax write offs, ask everybody to pay, I dunno, 5 cents of every dollar they earn and reduce bureaucracy. Like I said, this doesn't belong here, so I apologize, but, if he wrote off the arena on his income tax, the taxpayers paid for it.

[Tony Oday]

No way there is a new stadium in MN...we just paid for the bitch Polad and the pathetic Gophers new stadiums and can't even fix damn roads...we are sick of getting taxed for these damn things and no fing way will I stand for another damn stadium in this shitty economy!

Jones go F yourself.

[Scott Campbell]

Quick question: How much was he able to deduct from his taxable income?





Quick answer - nothing.

[Tarlam!]

Quick question: How much was he able to deduct from his taxable income?





Quick answer - nothing.


No way, SC

[pbmax]

There are cases of private financing. I can't comment on the Jazz, but the Giants owners largely paid for their own baseball stadium in San Francisco.

I have no doubt there were sweetheart lending deals or bonds issued to help and perhaps favorable tax treatment. Tar is probably right on that score. But that happens even when building an office building or moving a company to a new town.

[Tarlam!]

Thanks, PB, you're a pal. I'm not for one second critiquing the practice, merely pointing out that in Australia and Europe, rich people get tax breaks to finance their getting richer.

I highly doubt it's different in Utah. Now, I will shut the F up about it and comment in FYI if the subject comes up. My apologies.

HELL YES They should build a new stadium in the Twin Cities!!!

[Fritz]

I guess there are two ways to see this thread:

One, it's a thread about financing things from either public or private sources or both, and whether one way is better than another, or if capitalists using public money while decrying government spending is hypocritical or whether it's not at all. That would be a thread for a different place in 'Rats. for sure.

Another way to see this thread is that it's an argument about whether Jerry Jones is an ass or not and whether he's going to F*ck up the NFL here soon. That may not be a strictly Packer thing, but it's sorta football related.

So, in keeping with the latter, I say Jerry Jones better not F*ck up the NFL so he can create a system like baseball's, where the rich only ever get richer and the Pittsburghs and Milwaukees are always having to sell off their best players. I don't want Green Bay or Minnesota or Kansas City to become farm teams for Jerry Jones.