The Packers' Roster, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Deputy Nutz]

Thompson and company had a lot of interesting decisions to make over the past couple of days to trim this roster down to the league standard. Thompson has kept this team the youngest 4 straight years in a row, so decision are becoming harder and harder to make because he is cutting guys strictly on potential right now. It is hard to compare the work on the field between a second year player and a rookie. They are all going to be raw in terms of technique, so I suppose that all the coaches and Ted have to go on is future potential.

The good,

Trading Tony Moll for Derrick Martin. Trading a player that was going to be cut is always a good move. Moll just never panned out. He was always a step to slow, never strong enough, and younger players with more potential apparently stepped up. Moll was versatile, but he was just never good enough at tackle, or guard to contribute on a consistent basis. Martin is one of those players that apparently has more potential than Anthony Smith who had his good moments, and also some below average moments during the pre season. It was most likely a case of inconsistency that has followed Smith around the NFL.

Cutting Brian Brohm and then being able to resign him to the practice squad. Apparently Thompson caught his poor decision in drafting Brohm in the second round of the 2008 draft and spent little time in wasting a roster spot on him. Luckily it is not a total loss because the Packers still have him on the practice squad where he can hopefully get some things straightened out and move is NFL career along. He will most likely never contribute to the Packers in the regular season but maybe he can become trade bait down the line.

The Bad

Keeping three fullbacks is never a good thing. If Kuhn and Hall were good enough to make this roster for two straight years, having both of them contribute significantly on offense and special teams why draft another fullback? Best player available, and that was Quinn Johnson, but keeping all three of them really forces the team to cut depth at other positions namely quarterback, and the offensive line.

Only having one back up offensive tackle could put this team in a bind. I am sure if Clifton went down Colledge would move over to left tackle, Spitz to left guard, Wells at center, but that is alot of shifting around and on paper is weakens three positions instead of just one.

The Ugly

Ruvell Martin being cut. I suppose he just didn't offer enough on special teams but there is no way Brett Swain is a better receiver than Martin. I some point this year, injuries are going to happen to the receiving corps and that fifth wideout is going to have to play offense, and I was always pleased with Martin's ability to step up at wide receiver.

Justin Harrell back on IR. This really hurts the team. He was looking pretty good for the first couple weeks of camp and to see him hit the training room again, and this time for the whole season is a huge disappointment. Currently the Packers only have two nose tackles on the roster, and now Raji is a bit banged up and sure he can rotate between end and nose, but the hope was that he was going to be a starter at one of the defensive end positions. You can't have your back up nose tackle starting at a different position. You need a consistent rotation at nose tackle.

Keeping 9 linebackers, good for special teams but unfortunate that the Packers could not work out a trade for one of them. Brad Jones can thank his stars that he is on this roster. He might be one of those potential type of players but I just didn't see it in the preseason.

[Lurker64]

I don't think keeping 9 LBs is all that much of an ugly thing. it's fairly common for 3-4 teams actually; the Chargers have 9, the Browns have 9, the Cowboys have 9, the Ravens have 10, the Chiefs have 10, the 49ers have 9, etc.

8-10 is just the number of linebackers that 3-4 teams keep.

[Partial]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't think keeping 9 LBs is all that much of an ugly thing. it's fairly common for 3-4 teams actually; the Chargers have 9, the Browns have 9, the Cowboys have 9, the Ravens have 10, the Chiefs have 10, the 49ers have 9, etc.

8-10 is just the number of linebackers that 3-4 teams keep.

I guess. I just wanted to see another 6th round pick in 2010.

[Lurker64]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

Edit: Also, 6 DL is also about standard for 3-4 teams rosters. The Ravens have 5, the Cowboys have 6, the 49ers have 7, the Chiefs have 6, the Browns have 6, the Chargers have 6, etc.

[KYPack]

With you all the way on the triple FB's. That shows me a lack of decisiveness. Cut one of those guys. Keep the kid, he shows potential. but btw Kuhn & hall, you can cut one of 'em. Hall is an average blocker and his only upside is his pass catching. He's advertised as a great ST guy, but I don't see that either. I think we should have made the move on one of 'em and opened one roster spot to keep Lansanah or somebody.

Martin was on the bubble and then had two fugly pre-season games. He botched a spot on FG, and made a lot of shit plays. Hell, he even fumbled a punt. It added up to gone. But it was too bad, I really liked the guy. he never really developed and it cost him big time.

[Waldo]

He might be one of those potential type of players but I just didn't see it in the preseason.

:shock:

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.

He is weak and can't hold the point against the run right now. Then again none of our OLB's can.

He is a speed rusher. Matthews has the physical traits, but USC is more of a power rush team and teaches their guys to go through, not around. Jones can go around. He's very fast off the line and he has nice bend around the corner. Very KGB like. But he needs a counter. He has a very good basic rush, but for most studs the counters is where they make their hay. Jones' outside speed rush is definitely good enough to work counters off of.

[pbmax]

Ruvell is still waiting for an offer to join a team. It would seem the league thinks he is quite average for a replacement level receiver. I think Swain can come close. More importantly, given where Swain will be used, he has better skills for the role he will most often play.

There is no doubt Brohm's future is questionable. Teams don't give up on 2nd round picks, esp. QBs, very easily. But he did have multiple offers from teams willing to give him a chance on the PS. And many quarterbacks have taken multiple years to develop. Even this message board and McGinn disagree whether Rodgers had truly progressed in his second preseason. I think Brohm is behind Rodgers development curve, but after two years, there is no reason to write him off completely. It used to be accepted wisdom that it took five years to learn to be an NFL QB. If it takes Brohm 3 to show he has started to figure it out, there shouldn't be much surprise. T2 can't count on him and he may need to draft another QB, but one more year is a small price to pay for his physical skills. Perhaps KYPack could break down his offense in college? He seems much more confident on a 3 step drop with one pre-snap read. Was his college offense predicated on that?

I agree on the O Line and tackle. I would like to see another there. And I am not in favor of sliding Colledge around. Guard is his best position. But I think if he has to move, Lang will be given a shot at LG rather than Spitz. He has played it this year, Spitz has not. If there is an issue with Sitton, I would expect Spitz to move right and Wells to fill in at C.

Having Harrell would have been huge, as the only physical specimen on the team like him is Raji, who is shorter.

But the 3 FB math has me confused. If we carried two last year, and then added a third, we lost one roster spot. You could say it was Brohm, or perhaps Meredith, but not both.

[Waldo]

With you all the way on the triple FB's. That shows me a lack of decisiveness.

Shows me that they want to win this year.

Instead of keeping raw potential that will be of little use, they kept a lot of big time ST contributors.

When the team makes a commitment to ST over future potential, it is a sign that they think that they are contenders right now and that their window is open.

[boiga]

I don't think you guys need to worry as much as you are about the NT situation. First off, there are guys that could do the job in an emergency situation. Johnny Jolly is only 10 pounds lighter than Pickett, and while it wouldn't be his best position, he could probably get us to the end of the game in an injury situation.

Secondly, the NT won't be on the field during any passing down situations. The nickel defense is a 2-4-5 in which we have the two ends and who ever blitzes rushing the passer. The NT gets those downs off, which should cut down on any fatigue worries.

In regards to keeping 3 FB's, I still don't see your worry. Kuhn is our emergency 4th halfback so we can afford to keep the extra special teams skills with out a major drop off.


And while Ruvell is a great guy, the 5th WR's main responsibility is special teams. That's where they'll show the most impact because enough passes will never be thrown their way. Also, Ruvell's simply became obsolete on this team with the emergence of Finley. Ruvell's a tall powerful WR that can run a nice route at middling speed and block downfield. Finley's taller, faster, stronger, and seems to have better hands. So all those TD passes that Arod would have sent towards Martin last year are now going to Finley whether Ruvell's on the roster or not.

Swain's a different kind of receiver with greater acceleration than Ruvell. He can run in the slot and potentially develop into Driver's replacement. Ruvell's as good as he is going to get. Swain has more potential and is better at special teams. Ruvell's a great guy, but that doesn't earn a roster spot.

[KYPack]

He might be one of those potential type of players but I just didn't see it in the preseason.

:shock:

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.

He is weak and can't hold the point against the run right now. Then again none of our OLB's can.

He is a speed rusher. Matthews has the physical traits, but USC is more of a power rush team and teaches their guys to go through, not around. Jones can go around. He's very fast off the line and he has nice bend around the corner. Very KGB like. But he needs a counter. He has a very good basic rush, but for most studs the counters is where they make their hay. Jones' outside speed rush is definitely good enough to work counters off of.

I'm with ya on this. I must have seen all of Jones poor plays in pre-season. Matthews played like, one game at LB at USC. He was a DE last season. I think the hammy is still bothering him. He appears to need at least a season under his belt to get things down. To me, Popp was the best player at that ROLB. He can hold the point and his cover was OK for a 3-4 OLB. I'm hoping Brady gives us a good year and Jones and Matthews find their stride.

[Lurker64]

I also think the Ruvell cut was largely made not just because Swain is a superior ST player with more upside, but also because with the emergence of Finley as a pass receiving threat, Ruvell was largely expendable. Ruvell's role as a receiver was largely "be tall" and "have good hands" both of which are just as true of Finley as they are of Martin. Despite Finley outweighing Martin by a good 40 pounds, I don't think Jermichael gives up much in the way of speed to Martin either.

I think in most of our "5 WR sets" the fifth 'WR' will be Finley, and not Swain.

[Partial]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

MM is a jag. Would rather not have him anywhere on the roster. IMO, they should have brought in a guy to play ahead of MM, than kept MM as well since Jenkins is going to get hurt and they need the depth. Too bad Harrell couldn't have been the guy ahead of MM.

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

If Jenkins can stay healthy for two years, without a doubt they will keep him. The only knock is his injury history.

I'm not crazy about the DL at all to be honest. Raji missed out on a ton of time in camp and missed out on playing a huge role. I also believe his potential for injury is higher, and with Jenkins likely to get hurt, they can ill-afford to have two of their guys hurt on the line.

For all the comments about Martin, I will make one counter point: Why do all-star teams fail? They're loaded with talent, and even with plenty of time together, they still don't have chemistry. If this move throws off chemistry of the team, especially the QB, this team could quickly go from contender (which I believe tehy are) to pretender. I don't like the move at all. Martin seemed like a close friend and stablizing rock to many people. Keep the rock.

[Lurker64]

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if they did, next year is a fabulous class of DTs and there are roughly 14 DTs (most of whom would project better to 5-technique than nose) who have first round potential.

Arthur Jones from Syracuse or Vince Oghobaase out of Duke would be a fine first round pick, come April.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

MM is a jag. Would rather not have him anywhere on the roster. IMO, they should have brought in a guy to play ahead of MM, than kept MM as well since Jenkins is going to get hurt and they need the depth. Too bad Harrell couldn't have been the guy ahead of MM.

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

If Jenkins can stay healthy for two years, without a doubt they will keep him. The only knock is his injury history.

I'm not crazy about the DL at all to be honest. Raji missed out on a ton of time in camp and missed out on playing a huge role. I also believe his potential for injury is higher, and with Jenkins likely to get hurt, they can ill-afford to have two of their guys hurt on the line.

For all the comments about Martin, I will make one counter point: Why do all-star teams fail? They're loaded with talent, and even with plenty of time together, they still don't have chemistry. If this move throws off chemistry of the team, especially the QB, this team could quickly go from contender (which I believe tehy are) to pretender. I don't like the move at all. Martin seemed like a close friend and stablizing rock to many people. Keep the rock.

Why is Raji's potential for injury higher? Higher than what?

What all-star teams fail? Which teams are you referring to?

If ruvell is a "glue guy" or a chemistry guy...and cutting him means we lose chemistry then we are in a world of hurt. You are grasping, and it ain't pretty.

Ruvell may be a great guy and friend, but everybody on the packers knows it is a busines...and ruvell ain't DD. More to the point, how do you know there aren't more guys on the squad like RM?

As of now, Ruvell hasn't been claimed or signed...what does that tell you?

This is another one of your Money Morency moments. And, Money Morency is out of the league.

[Brohm]

Montgomery has a 2-year deal as well, so they will need to be thinking about getting it restocked. Good year to find another young DE and a back-up NT (if they decide to not resign Pickett and Harrell is unable to resume his career).

[mraynrand]

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.
.

OK, I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I just scanned back through the entire game. After the first series, Matthews came in at LOLB, Thompson at ROLB. Matthews gave way to Jones, with Jones taking Thompson's spot and Thompson going over to ROLB. I watched every play until Jones went out in favor to Obie. Jones was only in coverage once - a crossing pattern where he got help from Lasagna. Otherwise, I saw him -as you said - do KGB-like upfield rushes - with two good ones, including a tackle on the QB coming back. Otherwise he got stoned hard by fourth round pick Troy Kropog and was shut out in the run game defense. They have to be keeping Jones for his potential.

[Lurker64]

Also, I don't necessarily agree that they need to find 3 DL coming up. Cullen Jenkins has the potential to be one of the very best in the league as an RDE in a 3-4 if he can stay healthy, and he will be given every opportunity to prove that he can as he's a player worth keeping. Recall, that Cullen Jenkins is not actually especially prone to injury. In 2007 he wasn't quite the terror he was in preseason because of a variety of nagging injuries but still played in all the games, while in 2008 he suffered a torn pectoral muscle 4 games in. As a 5-technique DE he won't necessarily have the expectations of being the pass rushing force that a 4-3 RDE is, so his 2007 standard of play would be exceptional. A torn pec isn't exactly an injury that's likely to recur.

Also, Jarius Wynn is a player with tremendous potential and we may have gotten a steal in him. He definitely has natural pass rushing ability, he just needs to improve his play against the run which will come when he gets stronger, which is something all rookies pretty much need to do.

Looking long term, we likely have keepers in Jenkins, Wynn, and Raji. The NT dilemma is interesting, since it's Raji's best position but Pickett is likely worth keeping. Jolly and Montgomery are likely disposable, so we ultimately just need to find a long term solution for the LDE spot (as both Wynn and Jenkins are better suited to the right), and the upcoming draft is perfect for this. In addition to the aforementioned Jones and Oghobaase, check out Jared Odrick (Penn State), Jeff Owens (Georgia), Allen Bailey (Miami), Everson Griffen (USC), Lawrence Marsh (Florida), Marvin Austin (UNC), and Tyson Alualu (Cal). Those guys all project well to 5-tech and we should have a shot (or multiple shots) at most of them. Suh out of Nebraska would be ideal, but no way he falls to us. Last year was a pretty weak class for 5-technique DEs (you had Tyson Jackson who was a "sure thing" and there wasn't a lot else that didn't need considerable seasoning) this year, unquestionably, is not a weak class for 5-technique DEs. In each of the first four rounds (or so) you should be able to get a player that's an immediate upgrade over Monty.

Ultimately, we really only need to go 5 deep with solid talent on the DL to have one of the better DLs among 3-4 teams. That is, as long as we have good play at NT.

[Brohm]

Ultimately, we really only need to go 5 deep with solid talent on the DL to have one of the better DLs among 3-4 teams. That is, as long as we have good play at NT.

Which is why I hope they extend Pickett. I think he and Raji would be quite a rotation. I understand it if the money gets crazy but otherwise, why create weakness in depth at what is a critical position in our D (when what you have is really good).

[Partial]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

MM is a jag. Would rather not have him anywhere on the roster. IMO, they should have brought in a guy to play ahead of MM, than kept MM as well since Jenkins is going to get hurt and they need the depth. Too bad Harrell couldn't have been the guy ahead of MM.

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

If Jenkins can stay healthy for two years, without a doubt they will keep him. The only knock is his injury history.

I'm not crazy about the DL at all to be honest. Raji missed out on a ton of time in camp and missed out on playing a huge role. I also believe his potential for injury is higher, and with Jenkins likely to get hurt, they can ill-afford to have two of their guys hurt on the line.

For all the comments about Martin, I will make one counter point: Why do all-star teams fail? They're loaded with talent, and even with plenty of time together, they still don't have chemistry. If this move throws off chemistry of the team, especially the QB, this team could quickly go from contender (which I believe tehy are) to pretender. I don't like the move at all. Martin seemed like a close friend and stablizing rock to many people. Keep the rock.

Why is Raji's potential for injury higher? Higher than what?

What all-star teams fail? Which teams are you referring to?

If ruvell is a "glue guy" or a chemistry guy...and cutting him means we lose chemistry then we are in a world of hurt. You are grasping, and it ain't pretty.

Ruvell may be a great guy and friend, but everybody on the packers knows it is a busines...and ruvell ain't DD. More to the point, how do you know there aren't more guys on the squad like RM?

As of now, Ruvell hasn't been claimed or signed...what does that tell you?

This is another one of your Money Morency moments. And, Money Morency is out of the league.

Raji held out. Lots of players who held out aren't accustomed to game speed come the regular season and frequently experience injury. See Ryan Grant last year.

USA Basketball 2004 is a prime example of an all-star team failing. Lakers the year they lost to Detroit in the finals despite having Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton and a HOF coach at the helm.

Ruvell can pick and choose where he wants to play. He's probably waiting for the right situation.

I think Ruvell, being the best friend of GJ and the QB, is more important to chemistry than DD. Kind of weird to think about, but the fact Ruvell is always with A-Rod representing the team at every major event says a lot.

I agree it's a business and needs to be treated as such, but sometimes it's not worth upgrading from an 8 (out of 10) to an 8.01 when chemistry goes from a 10 (out of 10) to an 8.

[Waldo]

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.
.

OK, I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I just scanned back through the entire game. After the first series, Matthews came in at LOLB, Thompson at ROLB. Matthews gave way to Jones, with Jones taking Thompson's spot and Thompson going over to ROLB. I watched every play until Jones went out in favor to Obie. Jones was only in coverage once - a crossing pattern where he got help from Lasagna. Otherwise, I saw him -as you said - do KGB-like upfield rushes - with two good ones, including a tackle on the QB coming back. Otherwise he got stoned hard by fourth round pick Troy Kropog and was shut out in the run game defense. They have to be keeping Jones for his potential.

I'm going to have to go dig it up. I've got them all on tape. Perhaps it wasn't vs. Tn.

Tomorrow when I get home from work I'll find it.

[pbmax]

For all the comments about Martin, I will make one counter point: Why do all-star teams fail? They're loaded with talent, and even with plenty of time together, they still don't have chemistry. If this move throws off chemistry of the team, especially the QB, this team could quickly go from contender (which I believe tehy are) to pretender. I don't like the move at all. Martin seemed like a close friend and stablizing rock to many people. Keep the rock.
Ruvell isn't Kurt Rambis. He is(was) one of 53 players, and near the bottom at that. And he didn't come close to starter's minutes. Swain isn't Karl Malone or Gary Payton either. Someone who could demand outsize considerations on offense without returning anything to the team.

Football teams can fail when they are just a collection of parts purchased in FA, because no one has seen then in their new environment, with new responsibilities in a new scheme and new coaches/game plans. By the time they figure it out, its too late to return for cash. Swain does not fall into this category. The coaches and personnel guys have seen him for two offseasons worth of practice. They know what they have.

Whether Swain can, as Nutz asked, provide backup receiver help as well as Ruvell, that remains to be seen. But his primary use, Special Teams, the coaches seem to think he will be better.

[Scott Campbell]

I agree it's a business and needs to be treated as such, but sometimes it's not worth upgrading from an 8 (out of 10) to an 8.01 when chemistry goes from a 10 (out of 10) to an 8.


I think your assumption about team chemistry is pure speculation. Those bottom roster spots are important for the developmental of players with high ceilings.

[pbmax]

OK, I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I just scanned back through the entire game. After the first series, Matthews came in at LOLB, Thompson at ROLB. Matthews gave way to Jones, with Jones taking Thompson's spot and Thompson going over to ROLB. I watched every play until Jones went out in favor to Obie. Jones was only in coverage once - a crossing pattern where he got help from Lasagna. Otherwise, I saw him -as you said - do KGB-like upfield rushes - with two good ones, including a tackle on the QB coming back. Otherwise he got stoned hard by fourth round pick Troy Kropog and was shut out in the run game defense. They have to be keeping Jones for his potential.
Not disagreeing with what you saw otherwise, but didn't Matthews go in on the defense's Right? And Thompson on the Left, in place of Kampman? That's what I remember seeing and that is where there were in practice after Thompson came back.

[Fritz]

Partial, regarding your comment that Ruvell Martin probably has his choice of situations, and is simply picking and choosing now:

Are you his agent? If not, you should be.

As for the thread, I'm really curious about Jeremy Thompson. He seems, according to many posters and I think the coaches, a ton of upside, but he doesn't seem to be translating that yet. I know it's early - is this year two for him? - but I'm wondering when he's going to or if he's going to show that aggressive demeanor he supposedly needs to develop, or if it'll just come when he stops thinking.

I was mildly surprised at Brad Jones sticking, as I hadn't heard much, at all, about him. But they kept Underwood too, and he apparently had a real up-and-down camp.

The three guys I've mentioned - Thompson, Jones, Underwood - must have lots of talent.

[Bretsky]

If Partial is Ruvell's agent he doesn't want me to be a GM

Your client is just a guy. I pass :lol:

[mraynrand]

OK, I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I just scanned back through the entire game. After the first series, Matthews came in at LOLB, Thompson at ROLB. Matthews gave way to Jones, with Jones taking Thompson's spot and Thompson going over to ROLB. I watched every play until Jones went out in favor to Obie. Jones was only in coverage once - a crossing pattern where he got help from Lasagna. Otherwise, I saw him -as you said - do KGB-like upfield rushes - with two good ones, including a tackle on the QB coming back. Otherwise he got stoned hard by fourth round pick Troy Kropog and was shut out in the run game defense. They have to be keeping Jones for his potential.
Not disagreeing with what you saw otherwise, but didn't Matthews go in on the defense's Right? And Thompson on the Left, in place of Kampman? That's what I remember seeing and that is where there were in practice after Thompson came back.

You're right, I got that flipped around. When Jones came in, he was left the entire time, and Thompson was on the right - so Clay played ROLB and Thompson at LOLB. I'll be interested to see what Waldo digs up from the previous preseason games - I already deleted them and can't look back. I do think Jones shows some real potential, thought, and Waldo's comparison of his pass rush to KGB seems pretty accurate.

[mraynrand]

Partial, regarding your comment that Ruvell Martin probably has his choice of situations, and is simply picking and choosing now:

Are you his agent? If not, you should be.

As for the thread, I'm really curious about Jeremy Thompson. He seems, according to many posters and I think the coaches, a ton of upside, but he doesn't seem to be translating that yet. I know it's early - is this year two for him? - but I'm wondering when he's going to or if he's going to show that aggressive demeanor he supposedly needs to develop, or if it'll just come when he stops thinking.

I was mildly surprised at Brad Jones sticking, as I hadn't heard much, at all, about him. But they kept Underwood too, and he apparently had a real up-and-down camp.

The three guys I've mentioned - Thompson, Jones, Underwood - must have lots of talent.

Thompson makes me worried about the 'look like Tarzan, play like Jane' deal. He is an amazing physical specimen - does he have the knack? It looks like he does pretty well holding up in the run game. I want to look at his game again, specifically pass rush.

[sharpe1027]

Thompson makes me worried about the 'look like Tarzan, play like Jane' deal. He is an amazing physical specimen - does he have the knack? It looks like he does pretty well holding up in the run game. I want to look at his game again, specifically pass rush.

I tried to pay attention to JT for much of the game. I found his pass rush was very underwhelming. Just about every play he locked up with the tackle early and that was it. No initial moves, no edge rushes, he just seemed to hold hands and slow dance with the tackle.

Of course I didn't watch him every play, but that was my impression for the plays I watched.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

MM is a jag. Would rather not have him anywhere on the roster. IMO, they should have brought in a guy to play ahead of MM, than kept MM as well since Jenkins is going to get hurt and they need the depth. Too bad Harrell couldn't have been the guy ahead of MM.

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

If Jenkins can stay healthy for two years, without a doubt they will keep him. The only knock is his injury history.

I'm not crazy about the DL at all to be honest. Raji missed out on a ton of time in camp and missed out on playing a huge role. I also believe his potential for injury is higher, and with Jenkins likely to get hurt, they can ill-afford to have two of their guys hurt on the line.

For all the comments about Martin, I will make one counter point: Why do all-star teams fail? They're loaded with talent, and even with plenty of time together, they still don't have chemistry. If this move throws off chemistry of the team, especially the QB, this team could quickly go from contender (which I believe tehy are) to pretender. I don't like the move at all. Martin seemed like a close friend and stablizing rock to many people. Keep the rock.

Why is Raji's potential for injury higher? Higher than what?

What all-star teams fail? Which teams are you referring to?

If ruvell is a "glue guy" or a chemistry guy...and cutting him means we lose chemistry then we are in a world of hurt. You are grasping, and it ain't pretty.

Ruvell may be a great guy and friend, but everybody on the packers knows it is a busines...and ruvell ain't DD. More to the point, how do you know there aren't more guys on the squad like RM?

As of now, Ruvell hasn't been claimed or signed...what does that tell you?

This is another one of your Money Morency moments. And, Money Morency is out of the league.

Raji held out. Lots of players who held out aren't accustomed to game speed come the regular season and frequently experience injury. See Ryan Grant last year.

USA Basketball 2004 is a prime example of an all-star team failing. Lakers the year they lost to Detroit in the finals despite having Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton and a HOF coach at the helm.

Ruvell can pick and choose where he wants to play. He's probably waiting for the right situation.

I think Ruvell, being the best friend of GJ and the QB, is more important to chemistry than DD. Kind of weird to think about, but the fact Ruvell is always with A-Rod representing the team at every major event says a lot.

I agree it's a business and needs to be treated as such, but sometimes it's not worth upgrading from an 8 (out of 10) to an 8.01 when chemistry goes from a 10 (out of 10) to an 8.

Raji: You have yet to prove or show that he will be more apt to get injured. because one player or several have had that happen doesn't mean it will happen to him, or that there is a cause and effect. Ryan Grant...you mean the who rushed for 1200 yards, who started 14 of 16 games....yikes, we should be so lucky if raji has a year like that.

All - star: Are you serious. You are comparing the packers, a team that has had years of continuity, same coach and gm, players who have played together for several years..not all, but many...to a team that had 10 of 12 players change from 03 to 04. Even for you, that is horrendous.

The 04 team that won a bronze...so you mean that we might finish 3rd in the nfl...you mean like in the conference championship...that would suck. I'm very concerned.

Lakers. Really? You mean a team that signed 2 free agents, payton and malone who subsumed their egos and took less money to play? You mean a team that had a long standing feud tween shaq and kobe. You mean a team that didn't jettison a chemistry guy?

Wow. I don't recall chemistry being the issue...i recall two old fading stars that couldn't play.

Here i thought the pistons won because they played well, better defense and hustled.

Ruvell: Yeah, you are right. He just wants to not pick up a paycheck, he doesn't really love the game so he wants to miss the start of the season, he realizes that getting onto a team as quick as possible won't affect his playing team, he knows that he won't need to learn a playbook..after all you told us last year with favre that it wasn't a biggie.

Yes, Ruvell is much more a component and chemistry guy than DD. Yeah, DD is nothing...he not a good citizen or a leader of the pack. :roll:

Arod: what has his reaction been. How tore up is he. this has to be traumatic, not like last year. This is way worse...we are fucked. Season is over.

Chemistry..wow, talk about a bs argument. You don't know anything about the team's chemistry, you are speculating. You don't know if it is a 10 or if it is an 8 before Ruvell was cut. You dont' know if the chemistry went down.

Every year, every team, including the pack, cuts a popular player. No one is thinking about that, they are thinking about their first game. Life goes on.

[wist43]

He might be one of those potential type of players but I just didn't see it in the preseason.

:shock:

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.

He is weak and can't hold the point against the run right now. Then again none of our OLB's can.

He is a speed rusher. Matthews has the physical traits, but USC is more of a power rush team and teaches their guys to go through, not around. Jones can go around. He's very fast off the line and he has nice bend around the corner. Very KGB like. But he needs a counter. He has a very good basic rush, but for most studs the counters is where they make their hay. Jones' outside speed rush is definitely good enough to work counters off of.

I agree on Jones... I watched a few of his highlights from college, admittedly not much, but enough to be able to tell he could be a good edge rusher.

For an OLB in 3-4, have to be able to get the edge... then, as you said, develop a counter.

[wist43]

Thompson makes me worried about the 'look like Tarzan, play like Jane' deal. He is an amazing physical specimen - does he have the knack? It looks like he does pretty well holding up in the run game. I want to look at his game again, specifically pass rush.

I tried to pay attention to JT for much of the game. I found his pass rush was very underwhelming. Just about every play he locked up with the tackle early and that was it. No initial moves, no edge rushes, he just seemed to hold hands and slow dance with the tackle.

Of course I didn't watch him every play, but that was my impression for the plays I watched.

I've said this about JT and Kampman both, from the first announcement that they were going to a 3-4... they're both 4-3 DE's.

Kampman looks like a fish out of water, and JT looks completely lost... neither one is an OLB.

[pbmax]

Partial, regarding your comment that Ruvell Martin probably has his choice of situations, and is simply picking and choosing now:

Are you his agent? If not, you should be.

As for the thread, I'm really curious about Jeremy Thompson. He seems, according to many posters and I think the coaches, a ton of upside, but he doesn't seem to be translating that yet. I know it's early - is this year two for him? - but I'm wondering when he's going to or if he's going to show that aggressive demeanor he supposedly needs to develop, or if it'll just come when he stops thinking.

I was mildly surprised at Brad Jones sticking, as I hadn't heard much, at all, about him. But they kept Underwood too, and he apparently had a real up-and-down camp.

The three guys I've mentioned - Thompson, Jones, Underwood - must have lots of talent.

Thompson makes me worried about the 'look like Tarzan, play like Jane' deal. He is an amazing physical specimen - does he have the knack? It looks like he does pretty well holding up in the run game. I want to look at his game again, specifically pass rush.
The superlatives about Thompson's play stopped almost as soon as they put pads on in training camp. He looked much better in shorts, even if you just go by coaches comments and media mentions. His athletic ability has not translated yet. This is the kind of player that Ted Thompson takes flyers on. His numbers, measurables and body type all match. But with some of these guys, it never translates to on the field play.

[sharpe1027]

I've said this about JT and Kampman both, from the first announcement that they were going to a 3-4... they're both 4-3 DE's.

Kampman looks like a fish out of water, and JT looks completely lost... neither one is an OLB.

In the earlier games tried to watch Kampman's rushes. IMHO, there should be no way Kampman's pass rush should be mentioned in the same sentence as JT's (unless the sentence is something like "JT's pass rush isn't remotely close to Kampman's pass rush.") Kampman's run defense also looked very solid to me. He hardly ever dropped into coverage (probably wise).

I guess maybe we can just agree to disagree because I completely disagree with you. :wink:

[rbaloha1]

The roster is fine. IMO the Packers roster is as good as any in the NFC. Numerous young playmakers.

Swain's versatility vaults him over Martin. Also Jake Allen is a better RM. RM finds a roster spot in the NFL.

[wist43]

I've said this about JT and Kampman both, from the first announcement that they were going to a 3-4... they're both 4-3 DE's.

Kampman looks like a fish out of water, and JT looks completely lost... neither one is an OLB.

In the earlier games tried to watch Kampman's rushes. IMHO, there should be no way Kampman's pass rush should be mentioned in the same sentence as JT's (unless the sentence is something like "JT's pass rush isn't remotely close to Kampman's pass rush.") Kampman's run defense also looked very solid to me. He hardly ever dropped into coverage (probably wise).

I guess maybe we can just agree to disagree because I completely disagree with you. :wink:

Yes, Kampman should have been playing LB years ago... complete waste at DE :wink:

[sharpe1027]

Yes, Kampman should have been playing LB years ago... complete waste at DE :wink:

Not my point at all...but he was playing LB years ago. :lol:

He was a great DE. History tells us that doesn't mean he will fail at OLBer.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Best player available, and that was Quinn Johnson, but keeping all three of them really forces the team to cut depth at other positions namely quarterback, and the offensive line .

The QB situation works out fine with the #3 QB on the practice squad. Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB? I think it was the '37 season when Stitch Martin came in off the bench against the Duluth Eskimos.

Offensive line - no loss there either. When the Packers have Breno Giacomini on the active roster, it means they didn't have any quality backups available anyway.

Johnson can ride the inactive pines, and if Kuhn or Hall are down, as they usually are for a couple games, Johnson can contribute on special teams.

[Administrator]

Wasn't Ruvell the emergency QB too?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Wasn't Ruvell the emergency QB too?

yes

[KYPack]

Wasn't Ruvell the emergency QB too?

yes

And holder
And punt returner? At least he was in his last Packer game. That was the first thought that crossed my mind when he fumbled that punt in the Tenn game. He does a lot of different things poorly.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Wasn't Ruvell the emergency QB too?

yes

And holder
And punt returner? At least he was in his last Packer game. That was the first thought that crossed my mind when he fumbled that punt in the Tenn game. He does a lot of different things poorly.

Except for chemistry.

[mraynrand]

Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB?

vs. Giants, 2004

[pbmax]

Ruvell may have been a Break Glass In Case Of Emergency QB, but last year for instance, Brohm would have been inactive and eligible to be the actual 3rd QB. That is not the case for the practice squad.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB?

vs. Giants, 2004

Who was the qb? How many snaps.

[ThunderDan]

Johnson can ride the inactive pines, and if Kuhn or Hall are down, as they usually are for a couple games, Johnson can contribute on special teams.

Johnson is not going to be inactive. He is a f_cking sledgehammer. No way they don't let him clear out Urlacher on Sunday.

[Partial]

All three are going to be active to start against the bears because only 2 RBs are going to be active. I heard on WSSP that is one of the reasons they kept 3 guys there, as Kuhn has taken some reps at HB the past two weeks.

[Waldo]

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.
.

OK, I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I just scanned back through the entire game. After the first series, Matthews came in at LOLB, Thompson at ROLB. Matthews gave way to Jones, with Jones taking Thompson's spot and Thompson going over to ROLB. I watched every play until Jones went out in favor to Obie. Jones was only in coverage once - a crossing pattern where he got help from Lasagna. Otherwise, I saw him -as you said - do KGB-like upfield rushes - with two good ones, including a tackle on the QB coming back. Otherwise he got stoned hard by fourth round pick Troy Kropog and was shut out in the run game defense. They have to be keeping Jones for his potential.

I'm going to have to go dig it up. I've got them all on tape. Perhaps it wasn't vs. Tn.

Tomorrow when I get home from work I'll find it.

I think that it is the Az game.

......

Notes:

Brad's is at LOLB right after the half.

2nd play he has blanket coverage on Az's starting TE in M2M on an out n up, couldn't be better coverage. Had the undercut on the out and inside leverage on the up.

3rd play he dropped into short zone, then drove on Beanie the second he cleared the line. Dumpoff wouldn't have been there if Leinart went to it.

Got around the starting RT on the outside speed rush, but Matt stepped up and out of the way.

Followed Urban (WR) over to the slot presnap. Outside sweep towards him. Same play that Beanie scored on in the first. Got nowhere.

Beanie released, he dropped in the short zone, broke up the pass to Beanie.

Then a bunch of zone drops where nobody came into his zone.

13:15 in the 4th he splits out wide at CB. Flanker and slot were right next to each other. He split the middle. Got a shot on the slot then pressed the flanker an dropped with him, with Ford over the top. Pass went elsewhere. Good hip flip to switch from pressing to coverage. Not beaten off the line.

Damn, they triple teamed a rush of his late. RT passed him to the C and RG.

Late the slot guy went in motion and stopped behind and slightly offset from the RT (deeper than a TE). He dropped with the WR, handed him off and picked up coverage on the flanker on a crosser. He had good coverage on the flanker. The DB's failed to pick up the handoff and the slot WR caught it.

He got a pressure on Leinart, forcing an errant throw, beat the RT clean on an outside speed rush. The ROLB never pulled up and got flagged for a late hit, but the refs called it on Jones (he pulled up).

Good flat coverage on the opposite flat where where lined up (defensive right flat). Leinart rolled that way, Jones took away his outlet, the deeper guys were covered too. Wynn got in to force a throwaway.

Same alignment, he dropped to the over coverage on the flanker, with a CB underneath (deep coverage). Kid can drop crazy fast.

.....I knew that I wasn't going crazy. Sorry, yeah, Az game, not the Tn game.

[Waldo]

Ruvell may have been a Break Glass In Case Of Emergency QB, but last year for instance, Brohm would have been inactive and eligible to be the actual 3rd QB. That is not the case for the practice squad.

They were talking that when Jones was hurt that little bit he was throwing, the beat guys commented that he could put heat on them. He was a HS QB.

[mraynrand]

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.
.

OK, I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I just scanned back through the entire game. After the first series, Matthews came in at LOLB, Thompson at ROLB. Matthews gave way to Jones, with Jones taking Thompson's spot and Thompson going over to ROLB. I watched every play until Jones went out in favor to Obie. Jones was only in coverage once - a crossing pattern where he got help from Lasagna. Otherwise, I saw him -as you said - do KGB-like upfield rushes - with two good ones, including a tackle on the QB coming back. Otherwise he got stoned hard by fourth round pick Troy Kropog and was shut out in the run game defense. They have to be keeping Jones for his potential.

I'm going to have to go dig it up. I've got them all on tape. Perhaps it wasn't vs. Tn.

Tomorrow when I get home from work I'll find it.

I think that it is the Az game.

......

Notes:

Brad's is at LOLB right after the half.

2nd play he has blanket coverage on Az's starting TE in M2M on an out n up, couldn't be better coverage. Had the undercut on the out and inside leverage on the up.

3rd play he dropped into short zone, then drove on Beanie the second he cleared the line. Dumpoff wouldn't have been there if Leinart went to it.

Got around the starting RT on the outside speed rush, but Matt stepped up and out of the way.

Followed Urban (WR) over to the slot presnap. Outside sweep towards him. Same play that Beanie scored on in the first. Got nowhere.

Beanie released, he dropped in the short zone, broke up the pass to Beanie.

Then a bunch of zone drops where nobody came into his zone.

13:15 in the 4th he splits out wide at CB. Flanker and slot were right next to each other. He split the middle. Got a shot on the slot then pressed the flanker an dropped with him, with Ford over the top. Pass went elsewhere. Good hip flip to switch from pressing to coverage. Not beaten off the line.

Damn, they triple teamed a rush of his late. RT passed him to the C and RG.

Late the slot guy went in motion and stopped behind and slightly offset from the RT (deeper than a TE). He dropped with the WR, handed him off and picked up coverage on the flanker on a crosser. He had good coverage on the flanker. The DB's failed to pick up the handoff and the slot WR caught it.

He got a pressure on Leinart, forcing an errant throw, beat the RT clean on an outside speed rush. The ROLB never pulled up and got flagged for a late hit, but the refs called it on Jones (he pulled up).

Good flat coverage on the opposite flat where where lined up (defensive right flat). Leinart rolled that way, Jones took away his outlet, the deeper guys were covered too. Wynn got in to force a throwaway.

Same alignment, he dropped to the over coverage on the flanker, with a CB underneath (deep coverage). Kid can drop crazy fast.

.....I knew that I wasn't going crazy. Sorry, yeah, Az game, not the Tn game.

Thanks. I wish I hadn't deleted it. Probably won't see him til next summer. Can't imagine he'll be game day active...

[mraynrand]

Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB?

vs. Giants, 2004

Who was the qb? How many snaps.

After Favre concussion, they went to Pederson then to ...NALL! (Pederson was hurt too, and probably should have been replaced much earlier. Nall only played a handful of snaps at the very end I think. I don't have that game recorded so can't review, but was there watching Nall try to mount one final drive towards us in the North end zone. I think he may have thrown just one pass!

[mission]

Nall actually wasn't even too bad that game if I recall correctly (didn't look as bad as Brohm). I remember thinkin he was going to be a decent backup after that game... I was halfway on his bandwagon. :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB?

vs. Giants, 2004

Who was the qb? How many snaps.

After Favre concussion, they went to Pederson then to ...NALL! (Pederson was hurt too, and probably should have been replaced much earlier. Nall only played a handful of snaps at the very end I think. I don't have that game recorded so can't review, but was there watching Nall try to mount one final drive towards us in the North end zone. I think he may have thrown just one pass!

Ok.

But, i thought we were going to get something exciting like a ruvell playing. Having a qb as your emergency qb...well, that is nothing.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Nall actually wasn't even too bad that game if I recall correctly (didn't look as bad as Brohm). I remember thinkin he was going to be a decent backup after that game... I was halfway on his bandwagon. :lol:

Que Merlin and how Nall never got a chance...

[mraynrand]

Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB?

vs. Giants, 2004

Who was the qb? How many snaps.

After Favre concussion, they went to Pederson then to ...NALL! (Pederson was hurt too, and probably should have been replaced much earlier. Nall only played a handful of snaps at the very end I think. I don't have that game recorded so can't review, but was there watching Nall try to mount one final drive towards us in the North end zone. I think he may have thrown just one pass!

Ok.

But, i thought we were going to get something exciting like a ruvell playing. Having a qb as your emergency qb...well, that is nothing.

Unless it's T.J. Rubley - that game lives on in infamy. Even more exciting was when Mitchell (running back kick returner) got in a game for the Redskins years back. Not really wildcat, but a lot of tuck and run.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB?

vs. Giants, 2004

Who was the qb? How many snaps.

After Favre concussion, they went to Pederson then to ...NALL! (Pederson was hurt too, and probably should have been replaced much earlier. Nall only played a handful of snaps at the very end I think. I don't have that game recorded so can't review, but was there watching Nall try to mount one final drive towards us in the North end zone. I think he may have thrown just one pass!

Ok.

But, i thought we were going to get something exciting like a ruvell playing. Having a qb as your emergency qb...well, that is nothing.

Unless it's T.J. Rubley - that game lives on in infamy. Even more exciting was when Mitchell (running back kick returner) got in a game for the Redskins years back. Not really wildcat, but a lot of tuck and run.

Even rubley was a qb.

yeah, when a non qb plays. Like if the fins had to play the whole game with Ronnie brown....or the Raiders were fucked and went with McFadden.

[channtheman]

If your 3rd string QB is playing, you are already fucked.

[packrulz]

Packers | K. Hall, Kuhn likely will split time early

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:09:58 -0700

The Green Bay Press-Gazette reports Green Bay Packers FB Korey Hall and FB John Kuhn will likely split time early in the season. FB Quinn Johnson still has a long way to go.

Packers | J. Jones to be No. 3 WR

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:25:30 -0700

The Green Bay Press-Gazette reports Green Bay Packers WR James Jones beat out WR Jordy Nelson for the No. 3 wide receiver job.

[Fritz]

I was looking at the roster and wondering which guys will be game day inactives most of the time. I forgot how many game day inactives there are - is it six?

Some names I'm guessing might appear on that list early on: Jones, Johnson, Wynn.

[vince]

There are 8 inactives each week. Obviously, anyone injured and "out" for the game would be inactive. There is usually someone injured, which is why I believe the inactive rule came into being - to level the playing field and allow both teams to have 45 healthy bodies each.

If everyone were healthy, I think these would be the prime candidates...

Swain, Underwood, Havner, Wynn, Johnson, Jones, Deitrich-Smith, Lang, Wynn, Thompson

[Waldo]

I was looking at the roster and wondering which guys will be game day inactives most of the time. I forgot how many game day inactives there are - is it six?

Some names I'm guessing might appear on that list early on: Jones, Johnson, Wynn. 8

My guess for this week:

Deitrich-Smith
Lang (or Giacomini)
Jackson
Swain
Montgomery
Thompson
Underwood
Rouse

Jones is more valuable to ST than Thompson; it's a push between Johnson and Swain, Johnson would see the field more, J Wynn has more situational use than Monty.

[vince]

I was looking at the roster and wondering which guys will be game day inactives most of the time. I forgot how many game day inactives there are - is it six?

Some names I'm guessing might appear on that list early on: Jones, Johnson, Wynn. 8

My guess for this week:

Deitrich-Smith
Lang (or Giacomini)
Jackson
Swain
Montgomery
Thompson
Underwood
Rouse

Jones is more valuable to ST than Thompson; it's a push between Johnson and Swain, Johnson would see the field more, J Wynn has more situational use than Monty.
We should find out more today about Raji's status. If he can't practice today or tomorrow, I'd think being a rookie with limited snaps to this point, he probably wouldn't go Sunday.

[KYPack]

Ya, they lose an emergency game day QB, but can anybody tell me the last time the Packers played an emergency QB?

vs. Giants, 2004

Who was the qb? How many snaps.

After Favre concussion, they went to Pederson then to ...NALL! (Pederson was hurt too, and probably should have been replaced much earlier. Nall only played a handful of snaps at the very end I think. I don't have that game recorded so can't review, but was there watching Nall try to mount one final drive towards us in the North end zone. I think he may have thrown just one pass!

You got a memory like an iron bar, MRD.

He was 1-1 for 24 yards.

You guys made me look.

We lose 14 - 7 in that 2004 "death spiral" of games early

Nall really did his own little death spiral. He really looked like he had some juice, now he's long gone out of the league.

[Sparkey]

Ruvell is still waiting for an offer to join a team. It would seem the league thinks he is quite average for a replacement level receiver. I think Swain can come close. More importantly, given where Swain will be used, he has better skills for the role he will most often play.

There is no doubt Brohm's future is questionable. Teams don't give up on 2nd round picks, esp. QBs, very easily. But he did have multiple offers from teams willing to give him a chance on the PS. And many quarterbacks have taken multiple years to develop. Even this message board and McGinn disagree whether Rodgers had truly progressed in his second preseason. I think Brohm is behind Rodgers development curve, but after two years, there is no reason to write him off completely. It used to be accepted wisdom that it took five years to learn to be an NFL QB. If it takes Brohm 3 to show he has started to figure it out, there shouldn't be much surprise. T2 can't count on him and he may need to draft another QB, but one more year is a small price to pay for his physical skills. Perhaps KYPack could break down his offense in college? He seems much more confident on a 3 step drop with one pre-snap read. Was his college offense predicated on that?

I agree on the O Line and tackle. I would like to see another there. And I am not in favor of sliding Colledge around. Guard is his best position. But I think if he has to move, Lang will be given a shot at LG rather than Spitz. He has played it this year, Spitz has not. If there is an issue with Sitton, I would expect Spitz to move right and Wells to fill in at C.

Having Harrell would have been huge, as the only physical specimen on the team like him is Raji, who is shorter.

But the 3 FB math has me confused. If we carried two last year, and then added a third, we lost one roster spot. You could say it was Brohm, or perhaps Meredith, but not both.

Unless there are significant injuries, I think the whole 3 FB thing is much ado about nothing. The simple fact is that there are 5 game day inactives, so unless three or four injuries happen in one game at one position, it really doesn't affect much.

Sure, you could say "what if" regarding Rodgers and then Flynn, but honestly, if both get hurt in one game, is it really going to make a difference whi is qb'ing at that point of the game ?

[KYPack]

Ruvell is still waiting for an offer to join a team. It would seem the league thinks he is quite average for a replacement level receiver. I think Swain can come close. More importantly, given where Swain will be used, he has better skills for the role he will most often play.

There is no doubt Brohm's future is questionable. Teams don't give up on 2nd round picks, esp. QBs, very easily. But he did have multiple offers from teams willing to give him a chance on the PS. And many quarterbacks have taken multiple years to develop. Even this message board and McGinn disagree whether Rodgers had truly progressed in his second preseason. I think Brohm is behind Rodgers development curve, but after two years, there is no reason to write him off completely. It used to be accepted wisdom that it took five years to learn to be an NFL QB. If it takes Brohm 3 to show he has started to figure it out, there shouldn't be much surprise. T2 can't count on him and he may need to draft another QB, but one more year is a small price to pay for his physical skills. Perhaps KYPack could break down his offense in college? He seems much more confident on a 3 step drop with one pre-snap read. Was his college offense predicated on that?

I agree on the O Line and tackle. I would like to see another there. And I am not in favor of sliding Colledge around. Guard is his best position. But I think if he has to move, Lang will be given a shot at LG rather than Spitz. He has played it this year, Spitz has not. If there is an issue with Sitton, I would expect Spitz to move right and Wells to fill in at C.

Having Harrell would have been huge, as the only physical specimen on the team like him is Raji, who is shorter.

But the 3 FB math has me confused. If we carried two last year, and then added a third, we lost one roster spot. You could say it was Brohm, or perhaps Meredith, but not both.

Unless there are significant injuries, I think the whole 3 FB thing is much ado about nothing. The simple fact is that there are 5 game day inactives, so unless three or four injuries happen in one game at one position, it really doesn't affect much.

Sure, you could say "what if" regarding Rodgers and then Flynn, but honestly, if both get hurt in one game, is it really going to make a difference whi is qb'ing at that point of the game ?

It's 8 inactives.

Waldo's got it in a post above.

At 10 am on gameday, the team turns in the list of inactives to the league. Then the lists are sent to the opposing team. Most staffs do some final tweaking based on the list, if it involves injured guys.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Unless there are significant injuries, I think the whole 3 FB thing is much ado about nothing. The simple fact is that there are 5 game day inactives, so unless three or four injuries happen in one game at one position, it really doesn't affect much.

Every season there are one or two guys who are on the roster because of potential, don't want to lose them.

Just as long as one of those guys isn't a 2nd punter, all should be OK.

[Sparkey]

Ruvell is still waiting for an offer to join a team. It would seem the league thinks he is quite average for a replacement level receiver. I think Swain can come close. More importantly, given where Swain will be used, he has better skills for the role he will most often play.

There is no doubt Brohm's future is questionable. Teams don't give up on 2nd round picks, esp. QBs, very easily. But he did have multiple offers from teams willing to give him a chance on the PS. And many quarterbacks have taken multiple years to develop. Even this message board and McGinn disagree whether Rodgers had truly progressed in his second preseason. I think Brohm is behind Rodgers development curve, but after two years, there is no reason to write him off completely. It used to be accepted wisdom that it took five years to learn to be an NFL QB. If it takes Brohm 3 to show he has started to figure it out, there shouldn't be much surprise. T2 can't count on him and he may need to draft another QB, but one more year is a small price to pay for his physical skills. Perhaps KYPack could break down his offense in college? He seems much more confident on a 3 step drop with one pre-snap read. Was his college offense predicated on that?

I agree on the O Line and tackle. I would like to see another there. And I am not in favor of sliding Colledge around. Guard is his best position. But I think if he has to move, Lang will be given a shot at LG rather than Spitz. He has played it this year, Spitz has not. If there is an issue with Sitton, I would expect Spitz to move right and Wells to fill in at C.

Having Harrell would have been huge, as the only physical specimen on the team like him is Raji, who is shorter.

But the 3 FB math has me confused. If we carried two last year, and then added a third, we lost one roster spot. You could say it was Brohm, or perhaps Meredith, but not both.

Unless there are significant injuries, I think the whole 3 FB thing is much ado about nothing. The simple fact is that there are 5 game day inactives, so unless three or four injuries happen in one game at one position, it really doesn't affect much.

Sure, you could say "what if" regarding Rodgers and then Flynn, but honestly, if both get hurt in one game, is it really going to make a difference whi is qb'ing at that point of the game ?

It's 8 inactives.

Waldo's got it in a post above.

At 10 am on gameday, the team turns in the list of inactives to the league. Then the lists are sent to the opposing team. Most staffs do some final tweaking based on the list, if it involves injured guys.

I stand corrected. Makes my point even more valid. (at least in my mind lol)

[KYPack]

Yeah, yer point is somewhat valid.

I don't see a lot of percentage in the triple FB formation of Ted & Mike.

I would've traded or cut Kuhn/Hall, one of 'em anyhow.

Johnson would have been picked up if cut. Go with one of the vets, keep johnson, & keep Smith at S would have been my move. Smith is not too brainy, but we may need safeties. Kuhn/Hall has outlived their effectiveness. One of 'em is plenty.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

Our 7th best DL made it to the practice squad. This point is kind of moot--unless he gets signed to another roster. Even then, I would hope there's another DL out there on somebody else's practice squad whose similar in talent to Toribio.

[SnakeLH2006]

I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history.

Are you smoking the crackrock yo, Partial? The DL is fine. Jenkins' shit was one year...most scouts say he's Pro-Bowl caliber (I see it) but regardless we just fill in. The DL is fucking fine, bro.

[Partial]

I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history.

Are you smoking the crackrock yo, Partial? The DL is fine. Jenkins' shit was one year...most scouts say he's Pro-Bowl caliber (I see it) but regardless we just fill in. The DL is fucking fine, bro.

Jenkins has not had a single completely healthy, effective season as far as I know.

[Lurker64]

Jenkins has not had a single completely healthy, effective season as far as I know.

After the first few games, nobody in the NFL is healthy. Everybody's got nicks, scrapes, bumps, and bruises. What really matters is "is he available to play in the game". If he can play, but he's half a beat slower because something is hurting him, he can still play. Considering that Jenkins' new role as a 5-technique DE has him being counted on as much less of a playmaker than as a 4-3 RDE, I think he'll be fine.

Copying and pasting from my post another thread here:

In 2004, his first year as a Packer (he played in NFL Europe previously), Cullen Jenkins played in 16 games and started 6.
In 2005, Jenkins played in 16 games and started 12.
In 2006, Jenkins played in 14 games and started 5.
In 2007 Jenkins played in 16 games and started 15.
In 2008 Jenkins played and started the first four games before suffering a torn pectoral muscle which put him on the shelf for the rest of the season.

Now, other than last year, he's played a lot. Effective? Impossible to judge retroactively, but he was certainly healthy enough to play almost all of the time.

[Partial]

Jenkins has not had a single completely healthy, effective season as far as I know.

After the first few games, nobody in the NFL is healthy. Everybody's got nicks, scrapes, bumps, and bruises. What really matters is "is he available to play in the game". If he can play, but he's half a beat slower because something is hurting him, he can still play. Considering that Jenkins' new role as a 5-technique DE has him being counted on as much less of a playmaker than as a 4-3 RDE, I think he'll be fine.

Copying and pasting from my post another thread here:

In 2004, his first year as a Packer (he played in NFL Europe previously), Cullen Jenkins played in 16 games and started 6.
In 2005, Jenkins played in 16 games and started 12.
In 2006, Jenkins played in 14 games and started 5.
In 2007 Jenkins played in 16 games and started 15.
In 2008 Jenkins played and started the first four games before suffering a torn pectoral muscle which put him on the shelf for the rest of the season.

Now, other than last year, he's played a lot. Effective? Impossible to judge retroactively, but he was certainly healthy enough to play almost all of the time.

2007 - Coaches rode him and said he was disappointing. In 2006 he was nicked up all year and largely ineffective. That's why they didn't make the move to end until 5 games left.