Those Lucky Willliams Boys

[MOBB DEEP]

Federal appeals court says nfl CANNOT suspend Kevin and Pat for violating league's anti-doping policy

Minny dodged a bullet

Raji has to hurry back and remain healthy!

[Bossman641]

The Williams bros. play defense

:?:

[KYPack]

Those fat sumbitches!

[red]

i don't get how those 2 avoided suspension, but the exact same ruling said the nfl can suspend the 2 saints for the exact same thing

i just don't get it

RASTAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please explain

[Cheesehead Craig]

i don't get how those 2 avoided suspension, but the exact same ruling said the nfl can suspend the 2 saints for the exact same thing

i just don't get it

RASTAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please explain

The Saints players simply took the suspension and didn't want to fight it.

[MadScientist]

i don't get how those 2 avoided suspension, but the exact same ruling said the nfl can suspend the 2 saints for the exact same thing

i just don't get it

RASTAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please explain

The Saints players simply took the suspension and didn't want to fight it.

No, it's a provision in the laws in MN that were not accounted for in the collective bargaining agreement. Since the Saints are not located in MN, the law does not apply to them.

[KYPack]

Another Goodell fuck-up.

These are beginning to mount up.

[pbmax]

i don't get how those 2 avoided suspension, but the exact same ruling said the nfl can suspend the 2 saints for the exact same thing

i just don't get it

RASTAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please explain
The Vikings have recourse in the Minnesota State Courts because (although no verdict has been decided at this point) the CBA does not contain language that bypasses applicable State laws. The Vikings have filed suit in Minnesota under those laws. The Federal Court decided that the players have raised reasonable claims under those laws.

The Saints players either have not filed similar litigation OR there are no similar laws in Louisiana.

The real upshot of this is that this should have never gotten to this point. A lawyer at the league's Management Council or its counsel is in serious trouble, if they haven't been let go already. There is nothing mysterious about this matter if conventional language had been used circumventing the court system.

[pbmax]

The Saints players simply took the suspension and didn't want to fight it.
If that was true, why weren't they suspended last year? Or already this year :?:

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Saints players simply took the suspension and didn't want to fight it.
If that was true, why weren't they suspended last year? Or already this year :?:

I thought they served the suspensions last year. Or am I just wrong?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I thought they served the suspensions last year. Or am I just wrong?

I know at least one of them did. It really doesn't seem fair. It seems like the Vikings got away with another one--along with the poison pill and the Favre tampering charges. Legally, they may have been in the right, but I think common sense leads one to believe that they have been skirting the rules.

[Scott Campbell]

I guess MN has jurisdiction even for away games, as the fatties are employed in the state on MN.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I thought they served the suspensions last year. Or am I just wrong?

I know at least one of them did. It really doesn't seem fair. It seems like the Vikings got away with another one--along with the poison pill and the Favre tampering charges. Legally, they may have been in the right, but I think common sense leads one to believe that they have been skirting the rules.

Just looked it up and Grant and Smith did not serve the suspension yet. My bad, I thought they did.

[SMACKTALKIE]

I thought they served the suspensions last year. Or am I just wrong?

I know at least one of them did. It really doesn't seem fair. It seems like the Vikings got away with another one--along with the poison pill and the Favre tampering charges. Legally, they may have been in the right, but I think common sense leads one to believe that they have been skirting the rules.


There is nothing illegal with the poison pill, and the tampering charges were simply that........ charges, made by a paranoid coach and GM. Just because you were counting the Vikings first round draft pick as your own does not mean tampering took place, and the NFL agreed.

[pbmax]

I thought they served the suspensions last year. Or am I just wrong?

I know at least one of them did. It really doesn't seem fair. It seems like the Vikings got away with another one--along with the poison pill and the Favre tampering charges. Legally, they may have been in the right, but I think common sense leads one to believe that they have been skirting the rules.


There is nothing illegal with the poison pill, and the tampering charges were simply that........ charges, made by a paranoid coach and GM. Just because you were counting the Vikings first round draft pick as your own does not mean tampering took place, and the NFL agreed.
The Packers would like their cellphone back, however. Can you ask Chilly to return it?

[SMACKTALKIE]

I thought they served the suspensions last year. Or am I just wrong?

I know at least one of them did. It really doesn't seem fair. It seems like the Vikings got away with another one--along with the poison pill and the Favre tampering charges. Legally, they may have been in the right, but I think common sense leads one to believe that they have been skirting the rules.


There is nothing illegal with the poison pill, and the tampering charges were simply that........ charges, made by a paranoid coach and GM. Just because you were counting the Vikings first round draft pick as your own does not mean tampering took place, and the NFL agreed.
The Packers would like their cellphone back, however. Can you ask Chilly to return it?

:lol: :lol: Chilly loves that phone. It has some really funny forewarded text messages on it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Just looked it up and Grant and Smith did not serve the suspension yet. My bad, I thought they did.

Saints OL Jamar Nesbit served his suspension.

http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/06/saints_guard_jamar_nesbit_stil.html


Nesbit did not appeal his suspension and sat out Games 4 through 7.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There is nothing illegal with the poison pill, and the tampering charges were simply that........ charges, made by a paranoid coach and GM. Just because you were counting the Vikings first round draft pick as your own does not mean tampering took place, and the NFL agreed.

Again. Legally, they may have done nothing wrong. The poison pill was a dick move though. I'm surprised that anybody (even a homer Vikings fan) doesn't think there was something to the Favre tampering charge--especially after what's happened this summer.

[mngolf19]

There is nothing illegal with the poison pill, and the tampering charges were simply that........ charges, made by a paranoid coach and GM. Just because you were counting the Vikings first round draft pick as your own does not mean tampering took place, and the NFL agreed.

Again. Legally, they may have done nothing wrong. The poison pill was a dick move though. I'm surprised that anybody (even a homer Vikings fan) doesn't think there was something to the Favre tampering charge--especially after what's happened this summer.

Harv, they are all buddies. The whole NFL. So guys talk and say "hey, maybe some day you can play here, we'd love to have you" Is that tampering or just normal talk that all NFL people do with one another? Anything more than that I just don't see happening, unless Favre contacted them and tried to gauge their interest. At which point I could see them mention the conv they've had in the past. You can argue whether this stuff is kosher or not but...

[swede]

You can argue whether this stuff is kosher or not but...

I thought that's what we were doing.

Some teams are very careful not to violate the spirit of the rule, because to do otherwise would reflect poorly on your team. But that wouldn't bother some teams.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There is nothing illegal with the poison pill, and the tampering charges were simply that........ charges, made by a paranoid coach and GM. Just because you were counting the Vikings first round draft pick as your own does not mean tampering took place, and the NFL agreed.

Again. Legally, they may have done nothing wrong. The poison pill was a dick move though. I'm surprised that anybody (even a homer Vikings fan) doesn't think there was something to the Favre tampering charge--especially after what's happened this summer.

Harv, they are all buddies. The whole NFL. So guys talk and say "hey, maybe some day you can play here, we'd love to have you" Is that tampering or just normal talk that all NFL people do with one another? Anything more than that I just don't see happening, unless Favre contacted them and tried to gauge their interest. At which point I could see them mention the conv they've had in the past. You can argue whether this stuff is kosher or not but...

Actually you can't.

Until we see a rabbi blessing it...it ain't kosher.

[SMACKTALKIE]

There is nothing illegal with the poison pill, and the tampering charges were simply that........ charges, made by a paranoid coach and GM. Just because you were counting the Vikings first round draft pick as your own does not mean tampering took place, and the NFL agreed.

Again. Legally, they may have done nothing wrong. The poison pill was a dick move though. I'm surprised that anybody (even a homer Vikings fan) doesn't think there was something to the Favre tampering charge--especially after what's happened this summer.

Harv, I think the poison pill was a dick move, it was serious snub to the Seahawks and the Vikings got a pro bowler out of it. But even to a homer fan like me, the tampering charges were BS. They were the flailings of an organization whose (majority) fan base was pissed. The NFL said there was nothing there. The Vikings did not "get away" with anything, they did nothing to "get away" with. The egg is on the face of the Packers organization in this case.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/3137/minnesota-courts-buy-williams-wall-more-time


The bottom line is that both players might have already been suspended if they didn’t play in Minnesota, which has some of the most stringent labor laws in the country. That’s one of the biggest implications of Friday’s ruling. There is now a potential imbalance in discipline the league can hand out if its policy is subject to the differing laws of the individual states.

Would Kevin Williams and Pat Williams have a case if they played in Chicago, Green Bay or Detroit? That’s not immediately clear. But here is something to consider: New Orleans defensive linemen Charles Grant and Will Smith are expected to be suspended next week for what is reported to be the same offense -- ingesting bumetanide, a diuretic that can also be used as a masking agent.

Even if Kevin Williams and Pat Williams ultimately lose the case, this ruling has bought them another full year of playing time, salary and pension benefits. September 2010 is the earliest they could be punished for a transgression that occurred during the summer of 2008.

[ThunderDan]

I guess MN has jurisdiction even for away games, as the fatties are employed in the state on MN.

That's an interesting point. Obviously the Vikings have an unfair advantage over other teams in the NFL.

[SMACKTALKIE]

I guess MN has jurisdiction even for away games, as the fatties are employed in the state on MN.

That's an interesting point. Obviously the Vikings have an unfair advantage over other teams in the NFL.

I think PBMax said it best, "A lawyer at the league's Management Council or its counsel is in serious trouble, if they haven't been let go already."

This issue was not taken care of in the current CBA. This will be taken care of in the new CBA.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harv, I think the poison pill was a dick move, it was serious snub to the Seahawks and the Vikings got a pro bowler out of it. But even to a homer fan like me, the tampering charges were BS. They were the flailings of an organization whose (majority) fan base was pissed. The NFL said there was nothing there. The Vikings did not "get away" with anything, they did nothing to "get away" with. The egg is on the face of the Packers organization in this case.

Being able to prove it is one thing. Nobody knows if it actually happened. I think common sense would suggest that it did. It appears that Favre was angling to get to Minnesota once he was out in Green Bay. I wonder how Favre would have known the Vikings were interested--unless somebody from the Vikings informed him. Nothing Childress stated publicly until midsummer of this year indicated that he wanted Favre, but we now know that Childress was trying to bring Favre in long before he publicly stated interest. It's pretty obvious now that Childress would do anything to get Favre, and my bet is that he or Bevell let Favre know that the Vikings were interested. Favre's "if you don't want me, let me go to the Vikings" comments seem to suggest he knew the Vikings wanted him.

[red]

so, can viking players now take banned substances and not have to worry about getting suspended by the nfl?

or is it this just an individual case?

[bobblehead]

Sticking it to Goodell with a technicality....anyone think the vikes might be on the short end of some bad officiating this year?

[mraynrand]

Sticking it to Goodell with a technicality....anyone think the vikes might be on the short end of some bad officiating this year?

No "the officials love me and want to protect me"

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/oldfavrecopy.jpg

[Freak Out]

So until the CBA is renegotiated they can continue to take the thing that almost got them suspended as long as they are employed in Minnesota? DAYUM!

[Fritz]

What if Zygi moves the team to LA in the middle of the night in a big ol' moving van?

Are the Williams guys still protected since they took the starcaps in Minnesota?

[Freak Out]

Sticking it to Goodell with a technicality....anyone think the vikes might be on the short end of some bad officiating this year?

No "the officials love me and want to protect me"

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/oldfavrecopy.jpg

WTF? Does that guy wearing an scuba mask most of the time or what?

[MJZiggy]

All that hair and he has no eyebrows...

[Rastak]

so, can viking players now take banned substances and not have to worry about getting suspended by the nfl?

or is it this just an individual case?


Not at all....if Minnesota state law is not violated in the enforcement there is no issue. It's how it all went down. They need to clean this up in the next CBA, and they players need to get an independent arbitrator to adjudicate these issues because having the NFL guys who find the players guilty also being the appeal judge ain't gonna cut it anymore.

[MOBB DEEP]

The Williams bros. play defense

:?:

Yeah, talk about misinformation... :(

[Rastak]

Having read through almost the entire ruling there was some interesting stuff in there......I have read several times that players testing positive a couple years earlier were NOT suspended despite those players doing the exact same thing.

From page 30 of the ruling.


Dr. Lombardo
testified that, in 2006, he did not refer any of the players who tested positive for
bumetanide for discipline


Sometime between
December 2006 and the start of the 2007-08 NFL season, Birch directed Dr.
Lombardo to forward for discipline all positive test results for diuretics.


Dr. Lombardo testified that, absent
Birch’s directive prior to the 2007-08 season, Dr. Lombardo would not have referred
any of the five players involved in this case for discipline as a result of their positive
test results for bumetanide. (No. 09-2249, Appellant App. 233-34.)


That's real consistent.

[pbmax]

I guess MN has jurisdiction even for away games, as the fatties are employed in the state on MN.

That's an interesting point. Obviously the Vikings have an unfair advantage over other teams in the NFL.
Oh c'mon. The NFL didn't invent interstate commerce. The NFL blew this one, and apparently has been blowing it ever since the first CBA was negotiated. (If that language was included at some point, to bypass State Courts, I doubt it just fell out of subsequent agreements)

The difference now is that two players with a cause (has happened before) and with a boatload (Viking pun) of money (a newer development) had reason to challenge the CBA on this point. The fact that this legal argument wasn't even the chief leverage point of the original litigation is why you pay so much money to lawyers to cover all the bases.

I am finding it hard to fulminate over a small advantage that was won by millionaires over billionaires. In a small and unrelated way, I am glad the players won. The NFL and its fans need to be reminded occassionally that the league does not know what it doing all the time. TV ratings, new stadiums and broadcast deals tend to leave everyone suffering from a Patriot effect. --If you are winning, then everything you do is correct and the right call.

It also serves as a reminder to all the players, owners and fans exactly the cost of assigning personal rights away in the CBA. I think most players were surprised to know that the league could know about tainted supplements, but take only half steps to let them know about it. Its a reminder that while everyone should be pulling in the same direction, the complicated legal maneuvering over an issue like the CBA and drug policy makes the two parties adversaries, when they should be partners.

[Rastak]

PB nails it. It should be a cooperative effort since these steroids do damage to the union members themselves in addition to damaging competitive balance in the league. In addition, the fact the NFL freely admits players do NOT work for the NFL but for member franchises this entire issue could have been anticipated.

This should have been settled out of court before it got this far. This should have been considered during the last CBA negotiation and it will be a consideration during the current talks.


The union agreed to let the NFL be judge and jury but perhaps the NFL got a bit carried away with that sole power. Reading that ruling the NFL comes off as completely arbitrary in it's enforcement then acts surprised and outraged when called on it.

[pbmax]

so, can viking players now take banned substances and not have to worry about getting suspended by the nfl?

or is it this just an individual case?


So until the CBA is renegotiated they can continue to take the thing that almost got them suspended as long as they are employed in Minnesota? DAYUM!

I don't think so, though we don't know yet. And we won't know for certain until the State action is finished. But one of the State laws involved maintains that you cannot test and discipline for substances that are legal to be used in an employee's off hours.

While I am sure there are a number of masking agents that this may call back into play besides diuretics, this wouldn't allow steroid use (outside of a doctor's prescription) marijuana or opiates (outside of a prescription).

StarCaps contained a controlled substance, one that cannot be taken without a doctor's orders. Unless they can find a manufacturer doping another supplement, they would be out of luck.

[MOBB DEEP]

New Orleans defensive linemen Charles Grant and Will Smith are expected to be suspended next week

Did Carlton supply the caps?

[MOBB DEEP]

My boy just texted me that the Saints' Smith and Grant WILL NOT be suspended at this time

Anyone know why?

[red]

guess goodell figured it was wrong to suspend those two guys while the other two would be getting off scott free

seems fair to me

[MOBB DEEP]

Yeah, I just read Goodells statement and u r right

[Rastak]

guess goodell figured it was wrong to suspend those two guys while the other two would be getting off scott free

seems fair to me


Red,

How do you feel about them letting all the guys go in 2006? Same banned substance, same circumstances, no suspensions.

NFL is good at applying the rules subjectively on the fly so this does fit right in. To be honest, it's the right thing to do after their statements regarding the federal court's ruling.

[ThunderDan]

guess goodell figured it was wrong to suspend those two guys while the other two would be getting off scott free

seems fair to me


Red,

How do you feel about them letting all the guys go in 2006? Same banned substance, same circumstances, no suspensions.

NFL is good at applying the rules subjectively on the fly so this does fit right in. To be honest, it's the right thing to do after their statements regarding the federal court's ruling.

No, its not the RIGHT thing it is the equitable thing!!! All should be suspended but Minnesota law stops that from happening.

[Rastak]

guess goodell figured it was wrong to suspend those two guys while the other two would be getting off scott free

seems fair to me


Red,

How do you feel about them letting all the guys go in 2006? Same banned substance, same circumstances, no suspensions.

NFL is good at applying the rules subjectively on the fly so this does fit right in. To be honest, it's the right thing to do after their statements regarding the federal court's ruling.

No, its not the RIGHT thing it is the equitable thing!!! All should be suspended but Minnesota law stops that from happening.


Since that didn't happen in 2006, precedent has been set as they say in legal terms. Justice has prevailed for all.

[denverYooper]

guess goodell figured it was wrong to suspend those two guys while the other two would be getting off scott free

seems fair to me


Red,

How do you feel about them letting all the guys go in 2006? Same banned substance, same circumstances, no suspensions.

NFL is good at applying the rules subjectively on the fly so this does fit right in. To be honest, it's the right thing to do after their statements regarding the federal court's ruling.

No, its not the RIGHT thing it is the equitable thing!!! All should be suspended but Minnesota law stops that from happening.


Since that didn't happen in 2006, precedent has been set as they say in legal terms. Justice has prevailed for all.

The NFL is not a court of law. They are the governing organization for a sport. I don't believe precedent really has any bearing. Sheriff Goodell didn't come into the picture until Sept 2006. In 2007, he unveiled the Personal Conduct Policy and started suspending players for being idiots. There was no precedent to do so, but it was done in the name of cleaning up the sport's image. Maybe part of that mission is to do something about these dopers :twisted:

[Cheesehead Craig]

So now the US Congress is investigating this. For real?

http://wcco.com/local/williams.suspensions.congress.2.1236226.html

This has gotten retarded.

[Rastak]

So now the US Congress is investigating this. For real?

http://wcco.com/local/williams.suspensions.congress.2.1236226.html

This has gotten retarded.


Yea, there really isn't anything to investigate. The supreme court has already ruled with ample precedent. The NFL will lose on this issue.

The only way around it is to have congress create a federal law to supercede state law. That's probably a good idea, but it would be interesting to see how it was written, in effect only for sports leagues. I for one do not what to see workers rights trashed. I can see the need for MLB, NFL etc etc.....

[pbmax]

The NFL is not a court of law. They are the governing organization for a sport. I don't believe precedent really has any bearing. Sheriff Goodell didn't come into the picture until Sept 2006. In 2007, he unveiled the Personal Conduct Policy and started suspending players for being idiots. There was no precedent to do so, but it was done in the name of cleaning up the sport's image. Maybe part of that mission is to do something about these dopers :twisted:
The NFL is not a court of law, but they are subjected to the rule of law like any other business. And "Sheriff" Goodell cannot touch this issue with the Personal Conduct Policy because all drug testing related matters are subject to the CBA's drug policy, not the Commissioner's Personal Conduct policy.

The fault here is that the lawyers screwed this up. Its a well known fact of Labor Law (I say that advisedly as I didn't know before this issue) that CBA language is subject to State Law unless it is specifically proscribed. That is the precedent that controls here. Its the NFL trying an end run over legal court precedent, not the players. The players hands are not clean, they discovered this legal avenue in the middle of this whole mess, but its a legit claim.

This has become a matter of cost saving to the league. They don't want to have to trade any concessions in the CBA talks for new language so they are trying to get the Federal Courts to bail them out.

[bobblehead]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

[MichiganPackerFan]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

[Rastak]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

That could become an expensive action for the NFL....plus it does nothing to address the issue that state drug testing laws in every other state apply.

[MOBB DEEP]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

[MJZiggy]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

How is that different from what you hear here? Things will get interesting with their new acquisition...

[sunflower100]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

You really would want to help the Vikings by giving them a chance to land Stafford?

[pbmax]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.
Since a Federal Court ordered that the State Court case could proceed without suspensions, should Goodell move them to Greenland? :lol:

[MOBB DEEP]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

How is that different from what you hear here? Things will get interesting with their new acquisition...

You're right on both accounts imo...

Ive always like sherm but being away 5 years is alot

There's also conflicting reports; ESPN says that Zorn wasnt aware that they were bringing in Lewis. Whereas my barber insists that on the radio it was said that he was included in the decision and knew OF COURSE that he had to get on board or else....either way, he CANT feel at ease

Plus, Im not sure the players would play extra hard for his gig like, say Bowden's kids, would

I like snyder's intentions but dont understand why he's SO stubborn to be so young. He must be trying to be like jerry jones circa 1993. At least jones won with his formula back then. Obviously the NFL is totally diffrent now, pretty much since GB won SB

[ThunderDan]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

How is that different from what you hear here? Things will get interesting with their new acquisition...

You're right on both accounts imo...

Ive always like sherm but being away 5 years is alot

There's also conflicting reports; ESPN says that Zorn wasnt aware that they were bringing in Lewis. Whereas my barber insists that on the radio it was said that he was included in the decision and knew OF COURSE that he had to get on board or else....either way, he CANT feel at ease

Plus, Im not sure the players would play extra hard for his gig like, say Bowden's kids, would

I like snyder's intentions but dont understand why he's SO stubborn to be so young. He must be trying to be like jerry jones circa 1993. At least jones won with his formula back then. Obviously the NFL is totally diffrent now, pretty much since GB won SB

Zorn and Sherm Lewis are very good friends. Zorn has no problem with this.

[MOBB DEEP]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

How is that different from what you hear here? Things will get interesting with their new acquisition...

You're right on both accounts imo...

Ive always like sherm but being away 5 years is alot

There's also conflicting reports; ESPN says that Zorn wasnt aware that they were bringing in Lewis. Whereas my barber insists that on the radio it was said that he was included in the decision and knew OF COURSE that he had to get on board or else....either way, he CANT feel at ease

Plus, Im not sure the players would play extra hard for his gig like, say Bowden's kids, would

I like snyder's intentions but dont understand why he's SO stubborn to be so young. He must be trying to be like jerry jones circa 1993. At least jones won with his formula back then. Obviously the NFL is totally diffrent now, pretty much since GB won SB

Zorn and Sherm Lewis are very good friends. Zorn has no problem with this.

Didnt know that; when did they get close? Seattle?

[MOBB DEEP]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

How is that different from what you hear here? Things will get interesting with their new acquisition...

OMG, just heard on NFLN that Portis and Sellers nearly came to blows this week (Sellers had to be restrianed) b/c Portis asked the coaches to use Yoder (TE) as his main blocker

Sellers got contract extension and may have become a fat cat after pro-bowl play

I cant see that ever happening in GB

[Rastak]

:jack:

[MichiganPackerFan]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

the doom & gloom is SO much worse here than it has been in Michigan over the Millen era. However, the skins are much worse than their 2-2 record.

[MJZiggy]

I think Michigan collectively gave up in the Millen years. Very little in the way of expectations, but Snyder keeps buying players so they're supposed to be good.

[Scott Campbell]

the doom & gloom is SO much worse here than it has been in Michigan over the Millen era. However, the skins are much worse than their 2-2 record.


It's hard to be disappointed when you're supposed to suck.

[woodbuck27]

If I were goodell I would announce that next year Minnesota won't have a team as their courts make the CBA unenforceable.

Or they have to reform the team using an expansion-type draft from the Browns, Lions, Rams, Bucs & Skins only.

I see you mentoned Skins mich...

Have u been noticing the doom and gloom of skins fans in this area since you're new here?

Just came from the barbershop and this "die hard" says they have hit the skids...lol..at 2-2

the doom & gloom is SO much worse here than it has been in Michigan over the Millen era. However, the skins are much worse than their 2-2 record.


The Skins are so bad that they likely don't have a lick of a chance to go into Carolina and defeat an Ooo- for team. The Panthers are (were) 3.5 favorites.

[MOBB DEEP]

Me thinks skins will rally tommorow and play their best game yet; heard it here 1st