Plaxico gets 2 years

[Guiness]

Being reported in a couple of places.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090922/sports/nfl_burress_weapons_charges

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12248235

It says he's expected to serve at least 20 months. Does this qualify him for an honorary Darwin award? He won't be reproducing for at least that length of time!

[SkinBasket]

The law's pretty clear. There really wasn't any way around this for him, no matter how many people wanted to compare it to other sentences for entirely different crimes in other states.

Plaxico is a prime example of what this particular law is there to prevent - idiots stuffing guns in their pants with the safety off in places where alcohol, stupidity, testosterone, and violence often mix. I think it's wonderful he shot himself and has to go to jail.

[MadScientist]

It says he's expected to serve at least 20 months. Does this qualify him for an honorary Darwin award? He won't be reproducing for at least that length of time!

Only if he had shot himself in his third leg. Perhaps if he had blown his dick off, the judge would have gone easier on him, I mean how do you send a dickless guy to prison?

[mmmdk]

The law's pretty clear. There really wasn't any way around this for him, no matter how many people wanted to compare it to other sentences for entirely different crimes in other states.

Plaxico is a prime example of what this particular law is there to prevent - idiots stuffing guns in their pants with the safety off in places where alcohol, stupidity, testosterone, and violence often mix. I think it's wonderful he shot himself and has to go to jail.

Justice!

[SkinBasket]

The law's pretty clear. There really wasn't any way around this for him, no matter how many people wanted to compare it to other sentences for entirely different crimes in other states.

Plaxico is a prime example of what this particular law is there to prevent - idiots stuffing guns in their pants with the safety off in places where alcohol, stupidity, testosterone, and violence often mix. I think it's wonderful he shot himself and has to go to jail.

Justice!

Responsibility!

[mmmdk]

The law's pretty clear. There really wasn't any way around this for him, no matter how many people wanted to compare it to other sentences for entirely different crimes in other states.

Plaxico is a prime example of what this particular law is there to prevent - idiots stuffing guns in their pants with the safety off in places where alcohol, stupidity, testosterone, and violence often mix. I think it's wonderful he shot himself and has to go to jail.

Justice!

Responsibility!

Even better!

[Noodle]

Only if he had shot himself in his third leg. Perhaps if he had blown his dick off, the judge would have gone easier on him, I mean how do you send a dickless guy to prison?

In a dress?

[Scott Campbell]

I can't imagine anyone signing him at 34 years old after 2 years in the joint rotting away. And he's got the added baggage of being a terrible locker room guy.


You really fucked it up this time Plax.

[Packerarcher]

I don't care for Plax at all,but this country is going down the shitter when he gets 2 years for shooting himself. Stallworth get's a slap on the wrist for killing someone. Just shows the gun control nazis wanted to make an example out of him.

[mission]

I don't care for Plax at all,but this country is going down the shitter when he gets 2 years for shooting himself. Stallworth get's a slap on the wrist for killing someone. Just shows the gun control nazis wanted to make an example out of him.

Only time we've ever agreed! :)

[Zool]

Well the law is pretty cut and dry in the situation. They werent making an example at all. Unless of course you can show me documented cases of people with the same charge and such a large amount of evidence against the defendant(including his own admission) being let off.

[Guiness]

I can't imagine anyone signing him at 34 years old after 2 years in the joint rotting away. And he's got the added baggage of being a terrible locker room guy.


You really fucked it up this time Plax.

I wouldn't have been able to imagine a team doing anything similar, except for 2 words: Micheal Vick.

Football players have always gotten into trouble with the law, and been welcomed back with open arms - Pacman Jones (ok, he's in the CFL now!) Lawrence Phillips. But Vick getting another go around after 18 months in the joint still surprised me.

[Scott Campbell]

I can't imagine anyone signing him at 34 years old after 2 years in the joint rotting away. And he's got the added baggage of being a terrible locker room guy.


You really fucked it up this time Plax.

I wouldn't have been able to imagine a team doing anything similar, except for 2 words: Micheal Vick.

Football players have always gotten into trouble with the law, and been welcomed back with open arms - Pacman Jones (ok, he's in the CFL now!) Lawrence Phillips. But Vick getting another go around after 18 months in the joint still surprised me.


Vick is still in his prime, and wasn't known for being a bad locker room guy. Plax might get suspended by the NFL in addition to his prison time, so he could be pretty old before he's eligible to play again. Crazier things have happened, but it would not surprise me if we've seen the last of Plax in the NFL.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty hasn't heard he was a bad lockerroom guy. His Gmen team seems to like him a lot.

Please give some specifics.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't care for Plax at all,but this country is going down the shitter when he gets 2 years for shooting himself. Stallworth get's a slap on the wrist for killing someone. Just shows the gun control nazis wanted to make an example out of him.

Only time we've ever agreed! :)

Stalworth pled out and it was a fair plea considering the DA was going to have a 50/50 shot at winning the case. The guy that was hit by the car Stalworth was driving may have been at fault(not watching for traffic, running across the street without paying attention), it was going to be hard to prove that regardless of alcohol that the accident could not have been avoided.

I love guns, but what Paxico did was totally dangerous and he is lucky it was only himself that he injured. His stupidity with a fire arm could have cost somebody their life. Because of fools like him, responsible gun owners lose out. I am pissed I can't take my Glock .40 into a crowded club with loud music.

[Kiwon]

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/img/daily/556/blade_l.jpg

So when does Blade get to go to prison over tax evasion?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Cards will sign plax.

AZ loves guns and liquor.

[Bossman641]

How in the world has Mobb not posted in this thread yet?

[Gunakor]

I don't care for Plax at all,but this country is going down the shitter when he gets 2 years for shooting himself. Stallworth get's a slap on the wrist for killing someone. Just shows the gun control nazis wanted to make an example out of him.

Did you know that Plax wasn't arrested, charged, and sentenced to 2 years in prison for shooting himself? He is spending 2 years in jail for unlawfully carrying a loaded gun where he shouldn't have. If anybody would have reported him for carrying that weapon BEFORE he shot himself, he'd still be spending 2 years in jail for having a gun on him in the first place. The lesson to be learned here isn't that it's illegal to shoot yourself, but rather that it's illegal to carry a loaded weapon into a club in NYC whether the gun goes off or not. That's what he's going to jail for.

And I think several of us, including myself, have gone into detail about the ridiculous comparisons drawn between Stallworth's case and Burress' case. They aren't the same, and Stallworth didn't kill nobody. Some moron running out into traffic trying to catch a bus killed himself. I saw the tape. End of story.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Two years of a man's life for shooting himself and/or carrying. He deserved something for being an idiot, but he was clearly made an example of. When Mobb does post here, his comments will be pretty much right the fuck on.

[Patler]

Two years of a man's life for shooting himself and/or carrying. He deserved something for being an idiot, but he was clearly made an example of. When Mobb does post here, his comments will be pretty much right the fuck on.

Didn't the judge give him the minimum sentence provided by the statute? How is he being made an example of?

[SkinBasket]

Two years of a man's life for shooting himself and/or carrying. He deserved something for being an idiot, but he was clearly made an example of. When Mobb does post here, his comments will be pretty much right the fuck on.

You really just don't understand what's going on here do you?

[wist43]

In this case, the only thing dumber than him shooting himself, is his getting sentenced to 2 years in prison.

He's an idiot, our legislatures are full of idiots, the judiciary is full of idiots, and the vast majority of the citizenry are idiots.

See ya in the gulag :roll:

[Zool]

Two years of a man's life for shooting himself and/or carrying. He deserved something for being an idiot, but he was clearly made an example of. When Mobb does post here, his comments will be pretty much right the fuck on.

You really just don't understand what's going on here do you?

Its been spelled out pretty specifically but apparently its not sinking in.

[SkinBasket]

In this case, the only thing dumber than him shooting himself, is his getting sentenced to 2 years in prison.

He's an idiot, our legislatures are full of idiots, the judiciary is full of idiots, and the vast majority of the citizenry are idiots.

See ya in the gulag :roll:

Because the one place you should need a firearm is in a trendy NY night club...

[MichiganPackerFan]

Two years of a man's life for shooting himself and/or carrying. He deserved something for being an idiot, but he was clearly made an example of. When Mobb does post here, his comments will be pretty much right the fuck on.

Didn't the judge give him the minimum sentence provided by the statute? How is he being made an example of?

I'll admit that I don't know the intricacies of the entire case. I do know that they did not charge him right away so they could review what charges they could file. The example comes in not with the sentencing, but with the creative method of filing charges. A creative judge would have made him play for the raiders or lions for a couple of years. Dude shot himself in the leg and there was no demonstrated intent to harm anyone else. I don't have a whole lot of faith in the NY Injustice system after they allowed several officers who executed an unarmed Black man on the eve of his wedding to walk while putting a different Black man away for two years for accidentally shooting himself. And if I recall correctly, the same police force have been guilty of one or two more executions since that time and I would bet they received a paid vacation as a punishment.

And for the others, I do get it. Probably a lot better than people who have lived their lives isolated from any type of urban environment and the integral diversity that accompanies.

[mraynrand]

I don't have a whole lot of faith in the NY Injustice system after they allowed several officers who executed an unarmed Black man on the eve of his wedding to walk while putting a different Black man away for two years for accidentally shooting himself.

The way you describe these two incidents tells us pretty much where you're coming from.

[MOBB DEEP]

:cry:

[SkinBasket]

I don't have a whole lot of faith in the NY Injustice system after they allowed several officers who executed an unarmed Black man on the eve of his wedding to walk while putting a different Black man away for two years for accidentally shooting himself.

The way you describe these two incidents tells us pretty much where you're coming from.

Two times.

[Gunakor]

while putting a different Black man away for two years for accidentally shooting himself.

That's not what he was put away for. I wish people would stop trying to spin it this way. It's just a way to portray Burress as the victim here while ignoring the actual law that was broken. It's not illegal to accidentally shoot yourself. It is illegal to carry a gun into a club in NYC in the first place. Whether you agree with that law or not, it is the law and it is the law for everybody - including Plaxico Burress. So no, he wasn't being made an example of. He was being treated equally under the letter of the law. That's justice.

[MOBB DEEP]

How in the world has Mobb not posted in this thread yet?

i SERIOUSLY just laughed out loud!!!!!! :)

Jus read the thread and Mich you put too much pressure on me to perform, like my hottie ex i was always premature with. what?!

I said it in the plaxico burress thread; NO, the law wasnt made for cats like him Skin, it was made for the corner boys, new breed gangstas who couldnt handle taking a punch w/o ending lives, and wanabe badboys (im sure Barnett likes guns too! :lol: ) who came of age after the 80s drug boom in NYC. Not a well-known pro athlete that fears he may be targeted and MISTAKENLY discharges weapon :roll:

Dont confuse letter of law with spirit of law

And the mayor IMMEDIALTEY chimed in, intimating that plax would basically be made example of. If he's coming out like that, what hope did plax have? If plax wasnt plax, mayor wouldnt have even heard about the case he he....Plenty folk have pointed out that if he were in texas, he woulda gotten probation. Not that ive forgotten the ante-bellum south but at least THAT aspect of their system makes sense in this case

And the sad part is that i detect a sense of glee as it pertains to this cat's fate...if so, thats sick; whatsup with the lack of humanity? he has a family and appears to be a decent fellow who has made a few mistakes. Side bar = He needed intervention during pre-adolescence to deal with his traumatic experiences btw....he still has kids and folk who know the real plax, not judging bamas who feel some crazy euphoria over anothers plight like a he's some sorta scrouge.

And to me the scene was sad in court tuesday b/c he's no menace to society like SO many of those NYC cops as Mich mentioned

Two words: Amadou Diallo...

He who is without sin....

[MJZiggy]

How in the world has Mobb not posted in this thread yet?

i SERIOUSLY just laughed out loud!!!!!! :)

Jus read the thread and Mich you put too much pressure on me to perform, like my hottie ex i was always premature with. what?!

I said it in the plaxico burress thread; NO, the law wasnt made for cats like him Skin, it was made for the corner boys, new breed gangstas who couldnt handle taking a punch w/o ending lives, and wanabe badboys (im sure Barnett likes guns too! :lol: ) who came of age after the 80s drug boom in NYC. Not a well-known pro athlete that fears he may be targeted and MISTAKENLY discharges weapon :roll:

Dont confuse letter of law with spirit of law

And the mayor IMMEDIALTEY chimed in, intimating that plax would basically be made example of. If he's coming out like that, what hope did plax have? If plax wasnt plax, mayor wouldnt have even heard about the case he he....Plenty folk have pointed out that if he were in texas, he woulda gotten probation. Not that ive forgotten the ante-bellum south but at least THAT aspect of their system makes sense in this case

And the sad part is that i detect a sense of glee as it pertains to this cat's fate...if so, thats sick; whatsup with the lack of humanity? he has a family and appears to be a decent fellow who has made a few mistakes. Side bar = He needed intervention during pre-adolescence to deal with his traumatic experiences btw....he still has kids and folk who know the real plax, not judging bamas who feel some crazy euphoria over anothers plight like a he's some sorta scrouge.

And to me the scene was sad in court tuesday b/c he's no menace to society like SO many of those NYC cops as Mich mentioned

Two words: Amadou Diallo...

He who is without sin....

Doesn't matter who the law was intended for, cause that law was written in big letters and heavily publicized. (if he were in Texas he'd have just been laughed at because they don't have the same law) I knew about it and don't even live there. They were very clear and very firm. If the guy had a family to take care of, there's no way he should have been running around doing shit that was announced in a big media campaign would get you prison time. Quit making excuses. I have a family, therefore I don't do shit that gets me prison time. It's called personal responsibility.

[Packerarcher]

I know this wasn't about Plax shooting himself but the possesion of the firearm itself. The point is the resources put into this case to make an example out of him could have been used better elsewhere. That is unless all major crime in NY has been eliminated and we haven't heard about it.

[SkinBasket]

How in the world has Mobb not posted in this thread yet?

i SERIOUSLY just laughed out loud!!!!!! :)

Jus read the thread and Mich you put too much pressure on me to perform, like my hottie ex i was always premature with. what?!

I said it in the plaxico burress thread; NO, the law wasnt made for cats like him Skin, it was made for the corner boys, new breed gangstas who couldnt handle taking a punch w/o ending lives, and wanabe badboys (im sure Barnett likes guns too! :lol: ) who came of age after the 80s drug boom in NYC. Not a well-known pro athlete that fears he may be targeted and MISTAKENLY discharges weapon :roll:

Dont confuse letter of law with spirit of law

And the mayor IMMEDIALTEY chimed in, intimating that plax would basically be made example of. If he's coming out like that, what hope did plax have? If plax wasnt plax, mayor wouldnt have even heard about the case he he....Plenty folk have pointed out that if he were in texas, he woulda gotten probation. Not that ive forgotten the ante-bellum south but at least THAT aspect of their system makes sense in this case

And the sad part is that i detect a sense of glee as it pertains to this cat's fate...if so, thats sick; whatsup with the lack of humanity? he has a family and appears to be a decent fellow who has made a few mistakes. Side bar = He needed intervention during pre-adolescence to deal with his traumatic experiences btw....he still has kids and folk who know the real plax, not judging bamas who feel some crazy euphoria over anothers plight like a he's some sorta scrouge.

And to me the scene was sad in court tuesday b/c he's no menace to society like SO many of those NYC cops as Mich mentioned

Two words: Amadou Diallo...

He who is without sin....

Well that's just a whole big ball of stupid. You pretty much hit on every distortion and misconception about this case out there and wrap them all up in one big racial victimhood ribbon that also manages to invoke another entirely unrelated case - unless you're arguing that po' ol' Plaxico is the victim of police brutality?

The law was written to keep guns out of nightclubs, regardless of weather they are carried by "corner boys, new breed gangstas," or spoiled athletes who think they're above the law.

Plaxico is a perfect example of why they don't want guns in nightclubs. He carried an unregistered gun unsecured and with the safety off into a crowded environment and placed each and every one of those lives in danger that night. Thank god he was only dumb enough to shoot himself.

Humanity? What a fucking joke. He certainly didn't think of his "folk" or kids or anyone other than himself when he decided he was above the law and his imagined threat to his life was more important than the real threat to everyone else's safety he presented that night.

[pbmax]

It's not illegal to accidentally shoot yourself.
I'd bet that discharging a firearm in a public place, with no mitigating circumstances, is actually illegal as well.

Plaxico is being made an example of, the Mayor made that explicit with his comments after the incident. He created a very public expectation that jail time would be served before facts were established at trial. Patler's intimation that the minimum sentence indicates a less than hard line stance is misleading as many similar cases are plea bargained with no jail time. The DA at no time considered any agreement without jail time

Posters may consider this appropriate punishment, which it may be, but the fact is the law has been applied less aggressively before. The problem with such discretion is that no one ever needs to explain the different standard. And that leaves it open to interpretation, both wise and foolish.

But those factors are secondary. The entire fault lies with Burress, as he treats holding a gun with less seriousness than carrying a cell phone. That makes him a danger to himself and other, innocent bystanders. He takes no time to become familiar with local laws. By his actions, he treats his fellow citizens (and family) as unimportant and his responsibility for that weapon as no more serious than for a receipt in his pocket.

[Scott Campbell]

He's just lucky he isn't being sentenced for manslaughter.

He might be getting more sympathy if he hadn't previously earned 137 fines for being a jackass with the Giants.

[Zool]

How in the world has Mobb not posted in this thread yet?

i SERIOUSLY just laughed out loud!!!!!! :)

Jus read the thread and Mich you put too much pressure on me to perform, like my hottie ex i was always premature with. what?!

I said it in the plaxico burress thread; NO, the law wasnt made for cats like him Skin, it was made for the corner boys, new breed gangstas who couldnt handle taking a punch w/o ending lives, and wanabe badboys (im sure Barnett likes guns too! :lol: ) who came of age after the 80s drug boom in NYC. Not a well-known pro athlete that fears he may be targeted and MISTAKENLY discharges weapon :roll:

Dont confuse letter of law with spirit of law

And the mayor IMMEDIALTEY chimed in, intimating that plax would basically be made example of. If he's coming out like that, what hope did plax have? If plax wasnt plax, mayor wouldnt have even heard about the case he he....Plenty folk have pointed out that if he were in texas, he woulda gotten probation. Not that ive forgotten the ante-bellum south but at least THAT aspect of their system makes sense in this case

And the sad part is that i detect a sense of glee as it pertains to this cat's fate...if so, thats sick; whatsup with the lack of humanity? he has a family and appears to be a decent fellow who has made a few mistakes. Side bar = He needed intervention during pre-adolescence to deal with his traumatic experiences btw....he still has kids and folk who know the real plax, not judging bamas who feel some crazy euphoria over anothers plight like a he's some sorta scrouge.

And to me the scene was sad in court tuesday b/c he's no menace to society like SO many of those NYC cops as Mich mentioned

Two words: Amadou Diallo...

He who is without sin....

Well that's just a whole big ball of stupid. You pretty much hit on every distortion and misconception about this case out there and wrap them all up in one big racial victimhood ribbon that also manages to invoke another entirely unrelated case - unless you're arguing that po' ol' Plaxico is the victim of police brutality?

The law was written to keep guns out of nightclubs, regardless of weather they are carried by "corner boys, new breed gangstas," or spoiled athletes who think they're above the law.

Plaxico is a perfect example of why they don't want guns in nightclubs. He carried an unregistered gun unsecured and with the safety off into a crowded environment and placed each and every one of those lives in danger that night. Thank god he was only dumb enough to shoot himself.

Humanity? What a fucking joke. He certainly didn't think of his "folk" or kids or anyone other than himself when he decided he was above the law and his imagined threat to his life was more important than the real threat to everyone else's safety he presented that night.

I love it when Skin is the voice of reason in a thread. What if Plax the tard had shot someone else with a wife/husband and 3 kids at home? Oops sorry, was an accident. The law is specifically written to include a MANDATORY jail time.

man⋅da⋅to⋅ry
  /ˈmændəˌtɔri, -ˌtoʊri/
–adjective
1. authoritatively ordered; obligatory; compulsory:

This is complete BS saying that he's some sort of victim. Ignorance of the law does not save you from punishment. If he want's to go to the club, don't bring a piece. If you're life could be in danger, don't fucking go there. He made an extremely bad decision that could have ended up a lot worse than it did. He should just feel lucky that he didn't kill someone. Accidentally or otherwise.

[Gunakor]

The DA at no time considered any agreement without jail time

Why should they have made this consideration? Why should they have even considered a plea deal where Plax would walk free? He was carrying a gun unlawfully to a place he shouldn't have had one. It was loaded. If he shot himself by accident that means the safety was off. That's a very big deal PB. Would you have let him walk? Would you have let anybody else convicted of the same crime walk?

I wish every city in America had the same law and the same mandatory punishment for this crime as NYC has. Kudos to them for getting this one right.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

plax is at fault.

The situation only reinforces how stupid laws are with mandatory sentences.

[sheepshead]

This does seem pretty harsh. Also, he was frisked, they found the gun and let him in. I can see both sides especially in a big city, but 2 years for being a knucklehead? can he get out the joint sooner? This is coooeee man..just cooooeeee

[MJZiggy]

This does seem pretty harsh. Also, he was frisked, they found the gun and let him in. I can see both sides especially in a big city, but 2 years for being a knucklehead? can he get out the joint sooner? This is coooeee man..just cooooeeee

Football players expect to be let off when crap like this happens which only encourages more of the same and then when some nobody does the same thing, they have a light sentencing precedent to argue with. So they threw the book at him. Geez, when these guys get off light, everyone is all offended that "if he were just a regular guy, he'd have gotten two years." He broke the law in a big way (I don't care if they found it on him and let him in. If that's the case then security should be fired for allowing a weapon in the club). There is a specific law against doing what he did, but he ignored it and expected to be let off because he's famous. Guess now he understands what personal responsibility looks like. Anyone know if he has any prior convictions for anything?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Plus he only shaves his sack. :lol:

[pbmax]

The DA at no time considered any agreement without jail time

Why should they have made this consideration? Why should they have even considered a plea deal where Plax would walk free? He was carrying a gun unlawfully to a place he shouldn't have had one. It was loaded. If he shot himself by accident that means the safety was off. That's a very big deal PB. Would you have let him walk? Would you have let anybody else convicted of the same crime walk?

I wish every city in America had the same law and the same mandatory punishment for this crime as NYC has. Kudos to them for getting this one right.
Gunakor, I doubt your plan to have that New York City gun prohibition extended would be very popular outside of the Northeast. :)

The reporting indicated the most common sentence was probation and/or house arrest. This is not at all letting someone walk. They are not free, they must report their whereabouts at all times.

[Gunakor]

Gunakor, I doubt your plan to have that New York City gun prohibition extended would be very popular outside of the Northeast.

Popularity is no concern of mine. It wouldn't be the first unpopular law enacted and it won't be the last. It IS important, however. Safety trumps popularity every time.


The reporting indicated the most common sentence was probation and/or house arrest. This is not at all letting someone walk. They are not free, they must report their whereabouts at all times.

Yeah, except they don't always do that. You put them on probation and risk them violating their probation. For petty crimes that pose no real risk to other members of society I could understand, but violating a GUN LAW? No, you sit in jail where you can be supervised at all times. Who's to say that if Plax had just gotten probation that he wouldn't go back to that same club carrying a different weapon? Just because he's not supposed to doesn't mean he's not going to.

Yeah, he's famous, so he probably wouldn't get away with it - but for someone less famous, someone whose face you don't recognize, there's no way to control that. And you can't discriminate against the non-famous by making them sit while you let the famous off with probation. There's no justice in that whatsoever. If Joe Citizen has to sit for this crime, so does Plaxico Burress.

[SnakeLH2006]

It's been hashed out before. I stand by it.

Plax=2 years.

Dante Stallworth=30 days.

RE-FUCKING-TARDED.

I don't care what the local laws say. Dante killed some dude WASTED (HIS CHOICE). Plax is a thug and all (carried a gun) but gets 2 years.

Fuck the U.S. system at this point. Snake is gonna get fucked up and drive down and kill some dude I don't like.

I'm facing 30 days in local jail. Glad I don't do it (I do but not with a firearm) and party in local clubs with my 50 Cal. on my side. I could really face the wrath of injustice....No???

That is just fucked up. Dante is a killer by his choice (aka in my mind a murderer). Plax is a moron.

Fuck the moron. Let the murderer go. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gunakor]

It's been hashed out before. I stand by it.

Plax=2 years.

Dante Stallworth=30 days.

RE-FUCKING-TARDED.

I don't care what the local laws say. Dante killed some dude WASTED (HIS CHOICE). Plax is a thug and all (carried a gun) but gets 2 years.

Fuck the U.S. system at this point. Snake is gonna get fucked up and drive down and kill some dude I don't like.

I'm facing 30 days in local jail. Glad I don't do it (I do but not with a firearm) and party in local clubs with my 50 Cal. on my side. I could really face the wrath of injustice....No???

That is just fucked up. Dante is a killer by his choice (aka in my mind a murderer). Plax is a moron.

Fuck the moron. Let the murderer go. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been rehashed. Stallworth didn't kill nobody. Watch the video again if you need to. The guy ran out into traffic. Drunk or no, Stallworth was going to hit him. And it wasn't Stallworth's fault. DUI? Absolutely. Murder? You gotta be kidding me...

[SnakeLH2006]

It's been hashed out before. I stand by it.

Plax=2 years.

Dante Stallworth=30 days.

RE-FUCKING-TARDED.

I don't care what the local laws say. Dante killed some dude WASTED (HIS CHOICE). Plax is a thug and all (carried a gun) but gets 2 years.

Fuck the U.S. system at this point. Snake is gonna get fucked up and drive down and kill some dude I don't like.

I'm facing 30 days in local jail. Glad I don't do it (I do but not with a firearm) and party in local clubs with my 50 Cal. on my side. I could really face the wrath of injustice....No???

That is just fucked up. Dante is a killer by his choice (aka in my mind a murderer). Plax is a moron.

Fuck the moron. Let the murderer go. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been rehashed. Stallworth didn't kill nobody. Watch the video again if you need to. The guy ran out into traffic. Drunk or no, Stallworth was going to hit him. And it wasn't Stallworth's fault. DUI? Absolutely. Murder? You gotta be kidding me...

The dude would not have died if Dante wasn't wasted. Spin it or not, Gun...it doesn't matter. Dante chose to drive wasted. Dude died BECAUSE of Dante.

Plax killed no one. Harmed NO ONE.

Who has the harsher sentence by far?

Just saying....The U.S. legal system is fucked.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Snake,

If Dante killed him and it is evident...why did they offer him a plea? No prosecutor in their right mind would do so.

Simple, because the prosecutor looked at the tape, looked at the evidence and realized that there was more than a strong chance he wouldn't get a conviction. So, if offered a deal. So, if they went to trial..and lost. Then it would be plax 2 years and Dante 0. Then what would you say?

And, you can't compare two separate crimes. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

[Gunakor]

It's been hashed out before. I stand by it.

Plax=2 years.

Dante Stallworth=30 days.

RE-FUCKING-TARDED.

I don't care what the local laws say. Dante killed some dude WASTED (HIS CHOICE). Plax is a thug and all (carried a gun) but gets 2 years.

Fuck the U.S. system at this point. Snake is gonna get fucked up and drive down and kill some dude I don't like.

I'm facing 30 days in local jail. Glad I don't do it (I do but not with a firearm) and party in local clubs with my 50 Cal. on my side. I could really face the wrath of injustice....No???

That is just fucked up. Dante is a killer by his choice (aka in my mind a murderer). Plax is a moron.

Fuck the moron. Let the murderer go. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been rehashed. Stallworth didn't kill nobody. Watch the video again if you need to. The guy ran out into traffic. Drunk or no, Stallworth was going to hit him. And it wasn't Stallworth's fault. DUI? Absolutely. Murder? You gotta be kidding me...

The dude would not have died if Dante wasn't wasted. Spin it or not, Gun...it doesn't matter. Dante chose to drive wasted. Dude died BECAUSE of Dante.

Plax killed no one. Harmed NO ONE.

Who has the harsher sentence by far?

Just saying....The U.S. legal system is fucked.

Snake, did you even see the tape of that accident? That dude would have died whether DS was wasted or not. The problem wasn't that DS couldn't react quick enough, it was that he had NO TIME TO REACT. The dude died because he was a fucking moron. He died because he ran out into traffic. Watch the tape and tell me I'm lying. Just because DS was intoxicated doesn't mean he could have avoided the accident had he not have been. Just watch the tape. Stallworth is guilty of DUI, not murder.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I don't care what the local laws say. Dante killed some dude WASTED (HIS CHOICE).

Dante wasn't "wasted" he was a drink or two over the legal limit. The legal limit can be achieved by consuming a couple beers in an hour. Betcha never done that and driven? Furthermore, the concept of murder involves Intent. Dante didn't arrange to have the guy pushed into the street nor did he have any reasonable way to foresee the guy was going to run out in front of his car and therefore time it just right to hit him. No intent so Murder is off the table. What you have is contributory negligence, which means the "victim" has a lot of personal responsibility in his own death. You teach kids not to play in traffic, but this guy obviously didn't learn that. Maybe a bit of natural selection...

[pbmax]

Safety trumps popularity every time.
No, it often doesn't. Any survey of laws across the country should tell you that. And if you don't understand why, then there is little hope for your plan.



The reporting indicated the most common sentence was probation and/or house arrest. This is not at all letting someone walk. They are not free, they must report their whereabouts at all times.

Yeah, except they don't always do that. You put them on probation and risk them violating their probation. For petty crimes that pose no real risk to other members of society I could understand, but violating a GUN LAW? No, you sit in jail where you can be supervised at all times.

Simple, if they don't, then they serve the time in the clink. Plaxico may be stupid, but he doesn't rise to the level of a threat to society. As for his celebrity, I think its clear it worked against him here.

[SkinBasket]

Plaxico may be stupid, but he doesn't rise to the level of a threat to society. As for his celebrity, I think its clear it worked against him here.

He had a loaded weapon in his pants with the safety off. How is that not a threat to every person in that club that night? It's only chance that the bullet struck Burris and not someone else and that the wound wasn't fatal.

You guys also seem to like to ignore the whole mandatory sentence involved with this statute. Everyone knew from the beginning he would serve about 2 years because the law calls for 2 years - and not just for professional athletes. Not to mention they let him plead to a lesser charge that actually lessened his sentence, despite obviously having ample evidence to prosecute him under the original statute. Again, conveniently forgotten when people want to cry about how unfair this all is to someone who endangered dozens of lives that night.

[mraynrand]

I think Plexiglass got what he deserved. I hope when he gets out he plays for the Packers so we can jeer him at every opportunity.

[pbmax]

Plaxico may be stupid, but he doesn't rise to the level of a threat to society. As for his celebrity, I think its clear it worked against him here.

He had a loaded weapon in his pants with the safety off. How is that not a threat to every person in that club that night? It's only chance that the bullet struck Burris and not someone else and that the wound wasn't fatal.
It was only chance that he and no one else was hurt, and not seriously at that. That was the reason for one of the charges (second degree reckless endangerment). What are the odds of him doing this again? If this were anyone but Plaxico, I would conclude zero, but I still think its small.


You guys also seem to like to ignore the whole mandatory sentence involved with this statute. Everyone knew from the beginning he would serve about 2 years because the law calls for 2 years - and not just for professional athletes.
Mandatory sentence does not have to involve prison time for the entire sentence. It can, and I have have been Googling like crazy trying to see if it does in NY, but I can't find it. But like the Stallworth case, everyone is trotting around the 2 years and failing to mention the 2 years of probation he got.

As for your cry of mandatory, everyone knew it would be two years because the plea bargain was leaked long before it was agreed to, the original charges were 3.5-15 years each. So the "mandatory 2 years" you mention as being the law of NYC was actually a creation of the DA, not the city council.

I have no objection to the punishment for the crime. He was beyond culpable and an incredible fool. Someone who seems overconfident in his ability to control a situation or someone with NO idea how dangerous the weapon could be even accidentally. I would have no problem limiting his rights to own weapons based on his evident stupidity.

But most folks charged in NYC are let go with smaller penalties. He was used for his celebrity to make a point by the Mayor and DA. I prefer my justice more evenhanded. And public.

[SkinBasket]

But most folks charged in NYC are let go with smaller penalties. He was used for his celebrity to make a point by the Mayor and DA. I prefer my justice more evenhanded. And public.

Until you show me that more than half of those charged under this statute (or who accepted a comparable plea down from the same charge) got off lighter, I'm not buying it. The mayor made a big deal out of this because they wanted to make a big deal out of the law. As Ziggy said, even she was aware of it, 200 miles away. And even if the mayor did want to make an example out of him, then so what? It's not like Plaxico was framed. He provided a high profile example for the mayor to reinforce that they were serious about this law.

As far as the chances of him doing it again? I have no idea, which is probably why it's a bad idea to temper sentencing based on if he would or not.

[Gunakor]

Safety trumps popularity every time.
No, it often doesn't. Any survey of laws across the country should tell you that. And if you don't understand why, then there is little hope for your plan.

You're still talking about popularity. Stop. I am talking about safety, and I could care less what the masses think about it. There is nothing safe about carrying a loaded weapon into a nightclub. Nothing. Fuck what the people think. No survey is going to convince me that carrying a loaded weapon into a nightclub is safe. And for that reason I believe they should pass this law everywhere in America whether the people agree with it or not.

I cannot make this any more clear. Carrying a loaded weapon into a nightclub is not safe. Not for the person carrying it or for anyone else there at the club with him. It's just not safe, and there's no reason a person should be allowed to do it. That doesn't change just because the majority think they should. The majority in that case doesn't have the best interests of safety in mind. They should not be the ones making this decision. Maybe they are the ones making that decision, maybe that's the way it's been historically, maybe you're right that any survey will tell that story. Is that right? Is popularity SUPPOSED to trump safety?

Let me put it to you like this. Would you like to be at a nightclub knowing that someone inside that club is walking around with a loaded weapon, safety off, ready to shoot? Wouldn't you like to have a law that made doing so illegal? Wouldn't you love it if violating that law always carried the maximum possible sentence, thus helping to deter would be violators? Stop putting yourself in the shoes of Plax. Plax is the criminal, not the victim. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a criminal. So put yourself in the shoes of anyone else that was there that night, and be honest. You'd wish he hadn't brought the gun too. And that's the point entirely.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Safety trumps popularity every time.
No, it often doesn't. Any survey of laws across the country should tell you that. And if you don't understand why, then there is little hope for your plan.

You're still talking about popularity. Stop. I am talking about safety, and I could care less what the masses think about it. There is nothing safe about carrying a loaded weapon into a nightclub. Nothing. Fuck what the people think. No survey is going to convince me that carrying a loaded weapon into a nightclub is safe. And for that reason I believe they should pass this law everywhere in America whether the people agree with it or not.

I cannot make this any more clear. Carrying a loaded weapon into a nightclub is not safe. Not for the person carrying it or for anyone else there at the club with him. It's just not safe, and there's no reason a person should be allowed to do it. That doesn't change just because the majority think they should. The majority in that case doesn't have the best interests of safety in mind. They should not be the ones making this decision. Maybe they are the ones making that decision, maybe that's the way it's been historically, maybe you're right that any survey will tell that story. Is that right? Is popularity SUPPOSED to trump safety?

Let me put it to you like this. Would you like to be at a nightclub knowing that someone inside that club is walking around with a loaded weapon, safety off, ready to shoot? Wouldn't you like to have a law that made doing so illegal? Wouldn't you love it if violating that law always carried the maximum possible sentence, thus helping to deter would be violators? Stop putting yourself in the shoes of Plax. Plax is the criminal, not the victim. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a criminal. So put yourself in the shoes of anyone else that was there that night, and be honest. You'd wish he hadn't brought the gun too. And that's the point entirely.

You missed PB's point.

As for your position, well the citizens of AZ clearly don't agree with you. Starting on the 29th gun owners can bring their concealed weapon into a place that serves alcohol, as long as they don't drink.

Owners can prohibit, as long as there is a conspicuous sign saying no guns.

Supporters say the law bolsters Second Amendment rights and protects patrons' rights to defend themselves.

Ty loves living in the wild wild west. Yeehaw!!!!! (insert mental image of crackhead ty on broken down mule crazily firing his saturday nite special in the air)

[Gunakor]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

[Tarlam!]

It's illegal to carry concealed firearms in Germany and Australia. Guess what, we have a lot less shootings than you guys do.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It's illegal to carry concealed firearms in Germany and Australia. Guess what, we have a lot less shootings than you guys do.

Yet, we have far more guns and less violence after soccer games. :lol:

[Gunakor]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears. :wink:

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

[Gunakor]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears. :wink:

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

:shock:

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!

:lol:

The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears. :wink:

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

:shock:

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!

:lol:

The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

Why not? If they have a concealed weapons permit...why not?

Which places can they carry them?

Perhaps Jwalk woulda never been robbed if he had on gun on him.

Reason: How about ugly chicks that might wanna fuck? Ty can think of no better reason to have a gun than ward off the advances of some troll at da club.

Sense: Why? Cause ty is on crack.

BTW, you avoided the car scenario. Seems about the same. Remember guns don't kill...people kill (ty is now fully supported by the NRA).

[Gunakor]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears. :wink:

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

:shock:

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!

:lol:

The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

Why not? If they have a concealed weapons permit...why not?

Which places can they carry them?

Perhaps Jwalk woulda never been robbed if he had on gun on him.

Reason: How about ugly chicks that might wanna fuck? Ty can think of no better reason to have a gun than ward off the advances of some troll at da club.

Sense: Why? Cause ty is on crack.

BTW, you avoided the car scenario. Seems about the same. Remember guns don't kill...people kill (ty is now fully supported by the NRA).

Okay, that explains it. Ty is on crack, so he can't make sense of this. Gotcha.

Where can they carry them? A gun show. Hunting. Any place where carrying a gun would seem reasonable, and where the intent in carrying that gun is not to shoot another human being. Otherwise, keep it at home and use it to defend your home, yourself, and your family.

JWalk would have never been robbed if he wasn't a fucking moron who sprayed cheap champagne over everything while wearing/carrying 100 thousand dollars worth of jewelery and carrying 3 thousand dollars cash on him. If you make yourself a target...

You'd really use a gun to ward off the uglies? Is it really that difficult for you to do so without the threat of violence?

Cars: They have a practical everyday purpose for the average citizen. Guns do not. There's a HUGE difference.

[Tarlam!]

What Tarlam! said.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears. :wink:

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

:shock:

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!

:lol:

The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

Why not? If they have a concealed weapons permit...why not?

Which places can they carry them?

Perhaps Jwalk woulda never been robbed if he had on gun on him.

Reason: How about ugly chicks that might wanna fuck? Ty can think of no better reason to have a gun than ward off the advances of some troll at da club.

Sense: Why? Cause ty is on crack.

BTW, you avoided the car scenario. Seems about the same. Remember guns don't kill...people kill (ty is now fully supported by the NRA).

Okay, that explains it. Ty is on crack, so he can't make sense of this. Gotcha.

Where can they carry them? A gun show. Hunting. Any place where carrying a gun would seem reasonable, and where the intent in carrying that gun is not to shoot another human being. Otherwise, keep it at home and use it to defend your home, yourself, and your family.

JWalk would have never been robbed if he wasn't a fucking moron who sprayed cheap champagne over everything while wearing/carrying 100 thousand dollars worth of jewelery and carrying 3 thousand dollars cash on him. If you make yourself a target...

You'd really use a gun to ward off the uglies? Is it really that difficult for you to do so without the threat of violence?

Cars: They have a practical everyday purpose for the average citizen. Guns do not. There's a HUGE difference.

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive. :wink:

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

[Gunakor]

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive. :wink:

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

What reasonable explaination would one have for carrying a concealed weapon in the first place, one that would warrant the issue of a permit to do so? Law Enforcement should be the only ones carrying concealed weapons. Anybody else who thinks they need to do so has to have a reason for wanting to hide it. Can you assure society that those reasons are always going to be legitimate? Of course you can't.

Intent: No, they don't go with the intention of shooting someone, but will do so if confronted. Again, if you are afraid you are going to get into a confrontation where you might need a gun, don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Go to a different, safer club. Or don't go to a club at all. AVOID confrontation and you don't need to carry your gun.

Jwalk: No, that doesn't warrant a robbery. Nothing does. But wearing that much bling DOES in fact make you a target for a robbery. Don't look like a million dollars and people won't assume you have a million dollars. Look nice, but don't go that far overboard. And don't act a fool and spray everyone with champagne. Don't make yourself a target and lessen your chances of becoming one.

Uglies: You have a point. But unless they themselves are carrying a gun and using it to coerce you into taking them home, I don't see why you'd need to flash one yourself.

Practical: You're absolutely right, there's no limit to the things that can become a weapon. But as far as guns are concerned, are they ever NOT a weapon? Is there a practical use for guns where they AREN'T a weapon? When I drive my car from home to work and back every day, it's not a weapon. I don't use my car as a weapon. Is there a way to use a gun where the gun is anything but a weapon?

What is everybody's facination with guns and weapons and violence anyway?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive. :wink:

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

What reasonable explaination would one have for carrying a concealed weapon in the first place, one that would warrant the issue of a permit to do so? Law Enforcement should be the only ones carrying concealed weapons. Anybody else who thinks they need to do so has to have a reason for wanting to hide it. Can you assure society that those reasons are always going to be legitimate? Of course you can't.

Intent: No, they don't go with the intention of shooting someone, but will do so if confronted. Again, if you are afraid you are going to get into a confrontation where you might need a gun, don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Go to a different, safer club. Or don't go to a club at all. AVOID confrontation and you don't need to carry your gun.

Jwalk: No, that doesn't warrant a robbery. Nothing does. But wearing that much bling DOES in fact make you a target for a robbery. Don't look like a million dollars and people won't assume you have a million dollars. Look nice, but don't go that far overboard. And don't act a fool and spray everyone with champagne. Don't make yourself a target and lessen your chances of becoming one.

Uglies: You have a point. But unless they themselves are carrying a gun and using it to coerce you into taking them home, I don't see why you'd need to flash one yourself.

Practical: You're absolutely right, there's no limit to the things that can become a weapon. But as far as guns are concerned, are they ever NOT a weapon? Is there a practical use for guns where they AREN'T a weapon? When I drive my car from home to work and back every day, it's not a weapon. I don't use my car as a weapon. Is there a way to use a gun where the gun is anything but a weapon?

What is everybody's facination with guns and weapons and violence anyway?

Explanation: Protection. Plain and simple. So, concealed is bad...how about open on my hip...everybody can see it. Of course i can't guarantee...nobody can guarantee anything...just like you can't guarantee that the store selling robitussin won't be used by teenagers to get buzzed. But, we don't outlaw selling it.

Jwalk: So, he is a target. Therefore he should have a gun. Certainly you arent' saying that wealthy people shouldn't be allowed to wear ostentatious jewelry. Plenty of upper class white folks ain't gonna cotton to that.

Regardless, you are blaming the victim. And, if Jwalk hadn't sprayed...then is he still asking for it? How much jewelry can he wear? As stated, plenty of people who don't wear jewelry get robbed. Should they not be able to defend themselves?

Uglies: Ty can't risk being forced into sex...some of those women outweigh by at least 100 pounds. ty asked nicely for them to back away..they didn't....i feared for my life. Or, reverse it...your mom..in the parking lot...strange men are approaching....she asks them to leave...they don't...they will rape and murder her....too bad she didn't have a gun.

Weapon: Of course it is a weapon. But, it does't act on its own. I could shoot you in the office...or i could brain you with a coffee mug.

Fascination with guns, weapon, and violence: Um, we are americans. Sad, but true. Funny you pose this on a board devoted to a highly violent sport....are you on soccer boards as well. :wink:

P.S. Give Ty the Greek a read...and leave a comment. I worked hard on it...i think you'll enjoy it.

[Gunakor]

Explanation: Protection. Plain and simple. So, concealed is bad...how about open on my hip...everybody can see it. Of course i can't guarantee...nobody can guarantee anything...just like you can't guarantee that the store selling robitussin won't be used by teenagers to get buzzed. But, we don't outlaw selling it.

Jwalk: So, he is a target. Therefore he should have a gun. Certainly you arent' saying that wealthy people shouldn't be allowed to wear ostentatious jewelry. Plenty of upper class white folks ain't gonna cotton to that.

Regardless, you are blaming the victim. And, if Jwalk hadn't sprayed...then is he still asking for it? How much jewelry can he wear? As stated, plenty of people who don't wear jewelry get robbed. Should they not be able to defend themselves?

Uglies: Ty can't risk being forced into sex...some of those women outweigh by at least 100 pounds. ty asked nicely for them to back away..they didn't....i feared for my life. Or, reverse it...your mom..in the parking lot...strange men are approaching....she asks them to leave...they don't...they will rape and murder her....too bad she didn't have a gun.

Weapon: Of course it is a weapon. But, it does't act on its own. I could shoot you in the office...or i could brain you with a coffee mug.

Fascination with guns, weapon, and violence: Um, we are americans. Sad, but true. Funny you pose this on a board devoted to a highly violent sport....are you on soccer boards as well. :wink:

P.S. Give Ty the Greek a read...and leave a comment. I worked hard on it...i think you'll enjoy it.

We haven't outlawed Tussin yet, but there are plenty of other over the counter meds we have outlawed selling - at least over the counter. Think Coricidin. Or, as the kids called them, "Skittles". Yes, I used to rave way back in my younger days. As far as your gun being open and on your hip, at least I can see it and can choose to go somewhere else if I don't feel safe because of it. Here in Wisconsin, you can't even wear it on your hip and go anywhere you want to. I'll bet our clubs are safer.

JWalk: Acutally Ty, that's exactly what I'm saying. Don't flaunt yourself as a target and you are far less likely to become one. I'm not saying don't go to the club, I'm saying don't go to the club looking like a millionaire, spraying everybody with champagne, asking to be robbed. I remember a thread about this here at PR when it happened, where I and others had already gone over this. If you make yourself a target, don't be surprised if your targeted. Plain and simple. Yes, I know, people who don't wear jewelery get robbed too - but in the case of JWalk, specifically, it was no random robbery. He was targeted because he looked like a cool million. He was targeted because he made himself a target.

Weapon: You are further making my case. You could brain me with a coffee mug, or you could drink coffee out of it. You could hit me with your car, or you could just drive it where you need to go. What are you going to do with a gun other than it's sole intended purpose of shooting someone/something with?

While I love football, and admit it is an especially violent sport, it has nothing to do with guns or weapons or actual violence. It has nothing to do with robberies or nightclubs. It is a sport, and at the end of the game the opposing players meet at midfield and shake hands. It's violent, but it's sportsmanlike. It's not at all what I meant by our facination with guns and weapons and violence. So let me be far more specific. What is everybody's facination with guns, specifically?

As far as your Ty the Greek thread, I'd leave a comment but I'm not a betting man. I'm not a sports fan for the money. I'm simply passionate about the sport itself. Gambling takes the fun out of the sport, just as you alluded to regarding the Packers vs. Rams game. It's a good thread for the appropriate crowd, but it's not for me.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive. :wink:

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

What reasonable explaination would one have for carrying a concealed weapon in the first place, one that would warrant the issue of a permit to do so? Law Enforcement should be the only ones carrying concealed weapons. Anybody else who thinks they need to do so has to have a reason for wanting to hide it. Can you assure society that those reasons are always going to be legitimate? Of course you can't.

Intent: No, they don't go with the intention of shooting someone, but will do so if confronted. Again, if you are afraid you are going to get into a confrontation where you might need a gun, don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Go to a different, safer club. Or don't go to a club at all. AVOID confrontation and you don't need to carry your gun.

Jwalk: No, that doesn't warrant a robbery. Nothing does. But wearing that much bling DOES in fact make you a target for a robbery. Don't look like a million dollars and people won't assume you have a million dollars. Look nice, but don't go that far overboard. And don't act a fool and spray everyone with champagne. Don't make yourself a target and lessen your chances of becoming one.

Uglies: You have a point. But unless they themselves are carrying a gun and using it to coerce you into taking them home, I don't see why you'd need to flash one yourself.

Practical: You're absolutely right, there's no limit to the things that can become a weapon. But as far as guns are concerned, are they ever NOT a weapon? Is there a practical use for guns where they AREN'T a weapon? When I drive my car from home to work and back every day, it's not a weapon. I don't use my car as a weapon. Is there a way to use a gun where the gun is anything but a weapon?

What is everybody's facination with guns and weapons and violence anyway?

Explanation: Protection. Plain and simple. So, concealed is bad...how about open on my hip...everybody can see it. Of course i can't guarantee...nobody can guarantee anything...just like you can't guarantee that the store selling robitussin won't be used by teenagers to get buzzed. But, we don't outlaw selling it.

Jwalk: So, he is a target. Therefore he should have a gun. Certainly you arent' saying that wealthy people shouldn't be allowed to wear ostentatious jewelry. Plenty of upper class white folks ain't gonna cotton to that.

Regardless, you are blaming the victim. And, if Jwalk hadn't sprayed...then is he still asking for it? How much jewelry can he wear? As stated, plenty of people who don't wear jewelry get robbed. Should they not be able to defend themselves?

Uglies: Ty can't risk being forced into sex...some of those women outweigh by at least 100 pounds. ty asked nicely for them to back away..they didn't....i feared for my life. Or, reverse it...your mom..in the parking lot...strange men are approaching....she asks them to leave...they don't...they will rape and murder her....too bad she didn't have a gun.

Weapon: Of course it is a weapon. But, it does't act on its own. I could shoot you in the office...or i could brain you with a coffee mug.

Fascination with guns, weapon, and violence: Um, we are americans. Sad, but true. Funny you pose this on a board devoted to a highly violent sport....are you on soccer boards as well. :wink:

P.S. Give Ty the Greek a read...and leave a comment. I worked hard on it...i think you'll enjoy it.

We haven't outlawed Tussin yet, but there are plenty of other over the counter meds we have outlawed selling - at least over the counter. Think Coricidin. Or, as the kids called them, "Skittles". Yes, I used to rave way back in my younger days. As far as your gun being open and on your hip, at least I can see it and can choose to go somewhere else if I don't feel safe because of it. Here in Wisconsin, you can't even wear it on your hip and go anywhere you want to. I'll bet our clubs are safer.

JWalk: Acutally Ty, that's exactly what I'm saying. Don't flaunt yourself as a target and you are far less likely to become one. I'm not saying don't go to the club, I'm saying don't go to the club looking like a millionaire, spraying everybody with champagne, asking to be robbed. I remember a thread about this here at PR when it happened, where I and others had already gone over this. If you make yourself a target, don't be surprised if your targeted. Plain and simple. Yes, I know, people who don't wear jewelery get robbed too - but in the case of JWalk, specifically, it was no random robbery. He was targeted because he looked like a cool million. He was targeted because he made himself a target.

Weapon: You are further making my case. You could brain me with a coffee mug, or you could drink coffee out of it. You could hit me with your car, or you could just drive it where you need to go. What are you going to do with a gun other than it's sole intended purpose of shooting someone/something with?

While I love football, and admit it is an especially violent sport, it has nothing to do with guns or weapons or actual violence. It has nothing to do with robberies or nightclubs. It is a sport, and at the end of the game the opposing players meet at midfield and shake hands. It's violent, but it's sportsmanlike. It's not at all what I meant by our facination with guns and weapons and violence. So let me be far more specific. What is everybody's facination with guns, specifically?

Ban: Exactly. You can't buy a gun over the counter, now can you. Bah blam!!

Safer: Who knows. Concealed or not, it isn't against the law. Surprisingly to Ty..many acquaintances (and ty uses the term acquaintance, not friend) have concealed weapons permits...and others keep them in their car.

Jwalk: Exactly how much is flaunting? BTW, nobody is asking to get robbed just as no women are asking to get raped. What you are essentially saying is that the criminals have won. Change your behavior to suit them. Live in gated communities so as not to be attacked. Sad. Ty will say that wearing bling in a bad section of town is not smart, but sorry, a club is a club.

And, if a bunch of white folks get jacked while wearing expensive watches and jewelry leaving the opera....are they asking for it?

Weapon: I might point it at you and you mite become afraid and leave. BTW, i notice you didn't answer about your moms. Of course it is a weapon...do you think we live in a world that doesn't require weapons? Yikes.

Violence: Not real. My god, football is real violence. Injuries, shortened life span, etc. Modern day gladiators. It is a barbaric sport...and that is why we like it. If you were to do some reading about it's history, you would find that sophisticated men, gentlemen did not partake in it. It was the game of the common man...men that lead violent, working class lives. Not like boxing...the sweet science.

Guns: Part of the american mythology. Guns, cowboys, freedom. Power. Guns..in the movies are often a symbol for men's penis...sexual power. 'Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?' You can see in our culture the glorification of violence...but, sex is bad. gun good, penis bad.

[Gunakor]

Sure Ty. Guns are good. Guns are useful in any setting or any situation, including and especially one where most people are getting drunk and acting irresponsibly. I mean, how else are we going to settle confrontations.

If that's your honest feeling about it then there's nothing left to argue. I disagree, and we'll never agree on that.

You know, there was a story on our local news recently about a young boy trying to rob a bicyclist with a pellet gun. The bicyclist pulled a real gun and shot the boy in the head. This is why guns do not belong on the streets, in the clubs, or most anywhere else. But I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sure Ty. Guns are good. Guns are useful in any setting or any situation, including and especially one where most people are getting drunk and acting irresponsibly. I mean, how else are we going to settle confrontations.

If that's your honest feeling about it then there's nothing left to argue. I disagree, and we'll never agree on that.

You know, there was a story on our local news recently about a young boy trying to rob a bicyclist with a pellet gun. The bicyclist pulled a real gun and shot the boy in the head. This is why guns do not belong on the streets, in the clubs, or most anywhere else. But I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it.

I never said one thing about my feelings. I merely answered your questions. the simple fact is that while you have desires and ideas about guns, your arguments against them go against our constitution and succintly are poorly argued. If you can't convince me..and i'm on your side....how you gonna convince others.

Clubs: In AZ as noted, the owner of the bar has the right to not have guns in the club. And, those with guns cant drink. Ty personally thinks having a gun at a club is stupid. But, Ty is a liberal...so, what does ty know.

Ex: Should the bicyclist have allowed another boy to have shot him,not knowing if it was a pellet gun. Seems to me you have a double standard...those wearing bling and acting stupidly are gonna get jacked. They deserve it.

But in this case, the boy acted stupidly...and got jacked..and now you feel bad for him. Ty is a bit confused. Would you feel ok if the biker had dismounted, taken his bike pump and beat him senseless....or killed him?

You need to take the emotion out of your argument. Ty is ideologically with you, but you gotten sharpen your game if you wanna convince gun enthusiasts.

Peace, my brother. Read Ty the Greek....a little more humorous to end your night.

[Gunakor]

It would help if I understood gun enthusiasts first. I don't. So I don't see myself convincing them of anything, but even if I can't, I still know that they're wrong. They could never be convinced anyway.

My example wasn't to call out either the boy or the bicyclist. It was more to show that, referencing your argument that it's part of american history and very much needed in today's society, both the boy and the bicyclist have probably grown up feeling much the same way as you have described. The problem is that people are being taught that what you have argued all evening with me is right, just, and very necessary. Just the way you argued it brought this story to mind. I don't feel bad for the boy. I don't feel bad for the bicyclist. I feel bad that either one of them were raised to believe that they needed to carry a gun in the first place. Your argument that it's part of the American mystique, part of history, glorified in history in fact, might have been part of the problem in this instance. Blame the gun enthusiasts for what happened, I guess.

[woodbuck27]

It says he's expected to serve at least 20 months. Does this qualify him for an honorary Darwin award? He won't be reproducing for at least that length of time!

Only if he had shot himself in his third leg. Perhaps if he had blown his dick off, the judge would have gone easier on him, I mean how do you send a dickless guy to prison?

That"s like dining on poultry without cranberry sauce.

[MJZiggy]

What you guys are conveniently forgetting is that if JWalk had a gun on him that night, he's enough of an idiot that it likely would have been used against him, not to protect him...I'm just saying...

[pbmax]

But most folks charged in NYC are let go with smaller penalties. He was used for his celebrity to make a point by the Mayor and DA. I prefer my justice more evenhanded. And public.

Until you show me that more than half of those charged under this statute (or who accepted a comparable plea down from the same charge) got off lighter, I'm not buying it. The mayor made a big deal out of this because they wanted to make a big deal out of the law. As Ziggy said, even she was aware of it, 200 miles away. And even if the mayor did want to make an example out of him, then so what? It's not like Plaxico was framed. He provided a high profile example for the mayor to reinforce that they were serious about this law.

As far as the chances of him doing it again? I have no idea, which is probably why it's a bad idea to temper sentencing based on if he would or not.
Skin, I admit I am splitting a fine hair here, but I don't object to the sentence. If that is the sentence that follows the arrest, indictment, plea, I am fine with it. Burress has a duty as a gun owner to know the local laws. He also has a duty not to be an idiot. And yes, I agree with you and Ziggy, New York's laws are nationally well known. Its possible he did this with full knowledge.

I object to the non-public decision-making and varied level of sentencing. Whether the celebrity gets off (Sean Combs) or gets picked to send a message (Burress) is not my concern. Its the question of why different citizens are treated differently.

I have no statistic to show you that half or more charged with a similar crime get pleas down to lesser sentences. The blurb I read a while back (before the deal pleading down to attempted possession) was that the most common outcome was probation. I also do not know if the fact that Burress actually caused the firearm to discharge was the mitigating factor. It could be. But this is my concern, we'll never know.

As for deciding how much public risk Plaxico would have been on probation versus jail, courts are forced to make those distinctions every day when deciding on bail or sentencing. There is not room to accommodate all risk.

[pbmax]

It would help if I understood gun enthusiasts first. I don't. So I don't see myself convincing them of anything, but even if I can't, I still know that they're wrong. They could never be convinced anyway.
If you don't understand gun enthusiasts, then telling them they are wrong (or passing a law) will be highly ineffectual. Better to have some idea to accommodate both. Tarlam's point about gun laws in other countries cannot be duplicated here, because a very significant portion of the population would not support them and would work to undermine or repeal them.

And now we should await the last third of this thread to be moved to the Politico Forum.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Stupid europeans with their 5 weeks of vacay, universal health, gun laws, and mass transit.

When will those dumbfucks ever get a clue?

[SnakeLH2006]

What you guys are conveniently forgetting is that if JWalk had a gun on him that night, he's enough of an idiot that it likely would have been used against him, not to protect him...I'm just saying...

:shock: :lol: Now THAT is some good ass dark humor at it's best. Good stuff, Ziggy.

Anyway, back to the point. Legal ramifications and moral obligations aside...

Yeah, Dante (or anyone could have hit and killed that dude). I agree.

But, that situation would NOT have happened if Dante didn't get loaded up and drive that morning. It's hard to say what would have happened otherwise.

Fact: Dante was OWI.
Fact: Dante killed some dude.
Fact: That sucks for his dead ass and his family
Fact: Who's to say that said "dead ass dude" would be a "dead ass dude" IF Dante wasn't intoxicated while driving?
Fact: Plax is a moron.
Fact: Carrying a loaded firearm into a nightclub is not smart.
Fact: Celebs feel like they MAY be attacked/robbed esp. after a slew of incidents (the JWalk issue is there).
Fact: Plax NEVER threatened/tried to use said firearm on ANYONE (no loss of life, or injury to ANYONE but his dumb ass self).
Fact: This is a touchy and highly debatable/subjective topic based on many variables and various U.S. state to state statutes and laws.
Fact: Dante drove wasted and killed a dude. Plax shot himself.
Fact: Dante got a plea deal for 30 days. Plax faces 2 years pounding out license plates at 28 cents an hour.
Fact: Germany has strict gun laws because they started and lost 2 World Wars (sorry, Tarlam...lol).

Those are facts. The rest of our Rat banter is subjective.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What you guys are conveniently forgetting is that if JWalk had a gun on him that night, he's enough of an idiot that it likely would have been used against him, not to protect him...I'm just saying...

:shock: :lol: Now THAT is some good ass dark humor at it's best. Good stuff, Ziggy.

Anyway, back to the point. Legal ramifications and moral obligations aside...

Yeah, Dante (or anyone could have hit and killed that dude). I agree.

But, that situation would NOT have happened if Dante didn't get loaded up and drive that morning. It's hard to say what would have happened otherwise.

Fact: Dante was OWI.
Fact: Dante killed some dude. Nope, the dude is responsible as well..and perhaps solely. That is why they didn't go to court, cause they knew Dante could walk
Fact: That sucks for his dead ass and his family They understood, and took the plea..funny, they get it, but you don't.
Fact: Who's to say that said "dead ass dude" would be a "dead ass dude" IF Dante wasn't intoxicated while driving? Um, the video.
Fact: Plax is a moron. Subjective, but ok
Fact: Carrying a loaded firearm into a nightclub is not smart. Debatable
Fact: Celebs feel like they MAY be attacked/robbed esp. after a slew of incidents (the JWalk issue is there). Very True
Fact: Plax NEVER threatened/tried to use said firearm on ANYONE (no loss of life, or injury to ANYONE but his dumb ass self). Ok. He still broke the law.
Fact: This is a touchy and highly debatable/subjective topic based on many variables and various U.S. state to state statutes and laws. And?
Fact: Dante drove wasted and killed a dude. Plax shot himself. Trying to link the two is dumb. If you wanna argue about plax's sentencing and how sentencing laws for that crime are bad/wrong/too much..fine. But, linking is dumb.
Fact: Dante got a plea deal for 30 days. Plax faces 2 years pounding out license plates at 28 cents an hour. So? Dante also has more than just 30 days as his punishment. Again, the two incidents have nothing to do with each other.
Fact: Germany has strict gun laws because they started and lost 2 World Wars (sorry, Tarlam...lol). Nope. Your understanding of europe is tenuous at best

Those are facts. The rest of our Rat banter is subjective. Not really.

[SnakeLH2006]

Yep, you are right, Ty. Click this so we all know.

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

[GrnBay007]

Fact: This is a touchy and highly debatable/subjective topic based on many variables and various U.S. state to state statutes and laws.


And?

I understand the feelings/thoughts on both sides of this argument. I also completely understand those that believe this case was making a statement.

Unfortunately most states "get tough" on certain crimes based on reaction rather than precaution. And then the first to be found in violation of these laws become the so called "public statement". I don't think it has as much to do with Plax status as it does with timing.

For those that say he was placing the public in danger, I agree. However, anyone arrested for driving while intoxicated or drugged is also putting the public in danger and how often do you see those people put in prison for a 1st offense? (never).

The laws and sentencing trends are frustrating. Sex offenders abusing children often times don't get two years in prison. That's wrong.

He broke the law. Had he done the same a year ago or a year from now, the outcome would most likely be way different.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yep, you are right, Ty. Click this so we all know.

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

I don't have to be smart to show that what you claim as facts aren't facts. Has nothing to do with brains, just honesty.

[SnakeLH2006]

Yeah. I agree 007. It's a nasty argument. Both are different cases, but I see that you see that is relevant cuz both cases have high-profile NFL WR's involved.

Plax harmed no one but himself. 2 years.
Dante killed some dude OWI. 30 days.
That is BS.

But it's all moot, 007, WE are morons, obviously, I mean why carry on a Rat conversation when so much is clear, babe:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

[GrnBay007]

:bow:

LOL

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yeah. I agree 007. It's a nasty argument. Both are different cases, but I see that you see that is relevant cuz both cases have high-profile NFL WR's involved.

Plax harmed no one but himself. 2 years.
Dante killed some dude OWI. 30 days.
That is BS.

But it's all moot, 007, WE are morons, obviously, I mean why carry on a Rat conversation when so much is clear, babe:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

No one has said you a moron. What i have said is that what you claim as facts aren't.

And, the fact that you rely on an ad hominem attack pretty much proves my point.

And, once again....dante received more than 30 days. Stop pretending.

As asked, and never answered....why did the prosecutor cut a deal? Just answer it.

[SnakeLH2006]

Yeah. I agree 007. It's a nasty argument. Both are different cases, but I see that you see that is relevant cuz both cases have high-profile NFL WR's involved.

Plax harmed no one but himself. 2 years.
Dante killed some dude OWI. 30 days.
That is BS.

But it's all moot, 007, WE are morons, obviously, I mean why carry on a Rat conversation when so much is clear, babe:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

No one has said you a moron. What i have said is that what you claim as facts aren't.

And, the fact that you rely on an ad hominem attack pretty much proves my point.

And, once again....dante received more than 30 days. Stop pretending.

As asked, and never answered....why did the prosecutor cut a deal? Just answer it.

Snake can't. You are smarter than EVERY RAT (not just me and current posters, but future posters..).

How could I counter this, I mean I just can't. Would posting this as my sig make you feel better about yourself, let me know, Ty:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

[GrnBay007]

As asked, and never answered....why did the prosecutor cut a deal? Just answer it.

Do you know? Unless we are all privileged to court documents none of us know. Could be all kinds of political reasons.....when all else fails, that rules. Maybe the case was not airtight and the prosecutor relayed that to the family. From what I've read the family was in agreement with the deal. Maybe they felt it was better to get a financial settlement then to put him in prison. It's crazy to even debate these things when SOOOO much goes on behind the scenes that none of us know.

[SnakeLH2006]

As asked, and never answered....why did the prosecutor cut a deal? Just answer it.

Do you know? Unless we are all privileged to court documents none of us know. Could be all kinds of political reasons.....when all else fails, that rules. Maybe the case was not airtight and the prosecutor relayed that to the family. From what I've read the family was in agreement with the deal. Maybe they felt it was better to get a financial settlement then to put him in prison. It's crazy to even debate these things when SOOOO much goes on behind the scenes that none of us know.

Snake is laughing his ass off, but yep, 007, that's about it. No doubt they took millions to let it go. But the point is this. Dante KILLED a dude cuz he WAS fucked up. I don't care if dude ran across the street. He killed the dude cuz he was OWI. That's the point.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yeah. I agree 007. It's a nasty argument. Both are different cases, but I see that you see that is relevant cuz both cases have high-profile NFL WR's involved.

Plax harmed no one but himself. 2 years.
Dante killed some dude OWI. 30 days.
That is BS.

But it's all moot, 007, WE are morons, obviously, I mean why carry on a Rat conversation when so much is clear, babe:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

No one has said you a moron. What i have said is that what you claim as facts aren't.

And, the fact that you rely on an ad hominem attack pretty much proves my point.

And, once again....dante received more than 30 days. Stop pretending.

As asked, and never answered....why did the prosecutor cut a deal? Just answer it.

Snake can't. You are smarter than EVERY RAT (not just me and current posters, but future posters..).

How could I counter this, I mean I just can't. Would posting this as my sig make you feel better about yourself, let me know, Ty:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

Still waiting......why did the prosecutor cut the deal? Simple question.


You can do anything you want with the sig. I'm sure the Admin will look on it favorably. :oops:

[SnakeLH2006]

You can do anything you want with the sig. I'm sure the Admin will look on it favorably. :oops:

Hahaha...Snake just fucks around. But I doubt (no 100% doubt) that Joe would rule in your favor. I won't do it (the sig) but WTF, I still like ya, Ty, even though we have pulled some late night RAT rantings at each other, lately. Doubt Joe would EVER rule in YOUR favor though. Go with that. That is good stuff. I'm enjoying my beer even more now. 0% chance, but I won't go there.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You can do anything you want with the sig. I'm sure the Admin will look on it favorably. :oops:

Hahaha...Snake just fucks around. But I doubt (no 100% doubt) that Joe would rule in your favor. I won't do it, but WTF, I still like ya, even though we have pulled some late night RAT rantings at each other. Doubt Joe would EVER rule in YOUR favor though. Go with that. That is good stuff.

Still waiting.

Watching you backpedal is hilarious. And, the only one ranting is you. Good thing i had your post about partial screen capped. Just like this link...not like you would ever deny personal attacks...not you. :oops:

[SnakeLH2006]

You can do anything you want with the sig. I'm sure the Admin will look on it favorably. :oops:

Hahaha...Snake just fucks around. But I doubt (no 100% doubt) that Joe would rule in your favor. I won't do it, but WTF, I still like ya, even though we have pulled some late night RAT rantings at each other. Doubt Joe would EVER rule in YOUR favor though. Go with that. That is good stuff.

Still waiting.

Watching you backpedal is hilarious. And, the only one ranting is you. Good thing i had your post about partial screen capped. Just like this link...not like you would ever deny personal attacks...not you. :oops:

I laugh. Still do. Snake don't backpedal shit. Partial? What??? I like the guy. He likes me. What do you have to offer? Me and Admin are tight. I'm not attacking you. Do you really have a prob? Snake laughs. I jest at your posts, as you do at mine? Do you hate the Snake? LOL. I have no prob. with you TY, except that you think you are smarter than all. Refresh:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

[th87]

Dante KILLED a dude cuz he WAS fucked up. I don't care if dude ran across the street. He killed the dude cuz he was OWI. That's the point.

They weren't able to prove that.

Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. This is not the same as, "Stallworth hit a guy BECAUSE he was intoxicated." It's this "because" that the prosecution did not even try to prove, as they didn't feel strongly about that "because".

So the fact is is that Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. Replacing "and" with "because" is only your opinion.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You can do anything you want with the sig. I'm sure the Admin will look on it favorably. :oops:

Hahaha...Snake just fucks around. But I doubt (no 100% doubt) that Joe would rule in your favor. I won't do it, but WTF, I still like ya, even though we have pulled some late night RAT rantings at each other. Doubt Joe would EVER rule in YOUR favor though. Go with that. That is good stuff.

Still waiting.

Watching you backpedal is hilarious. And, the only one ranting is you. Good thing i had your post about partial screen capped. Just like this link...not like you would ever deny personal attacks...not you. :oops:

I laugh. Still do. Snake don't backpedal shit. Partial? What??? I like the guy. He likes me. What do you have to offer? Me and Admin are tight. I'm not attacking you. Do you really have a prob? Snake laughs. I jest at your posts, as you do at mine? Do you hate the Snake? LOL. I have no prob. with you TY, except that you think you are smarter than all. Refresh:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

Partial. Oh, you mean where you made fun of him as being the best poster ever....then took it down.

You aren't attacking. Really? Should i create a post of your past 2 weeks? I guess you telling me to watch my back and how i was about on the outs, that was all fun. You stalking my posts in other threads and just flaming..not even responding the post. Yep, that was all just good fun.:roll:

At least man up.

Ty hasn't seen such backpedaling since Deion was in the league.

[SnakeLH2006]

Dante KILLED a dude cuz he WAS fucked up. I don't care if dude ran across the street. He killed the dude cuz he was OWI. That's the point.

They weren't able to prove that.

Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. This is not the same as, "Stallworth hit a guy BECAUSE he was intoxicated." It's this "because" that the prosecution did not even try to prove, as they didn't feel strongly about that "because".

So the fact is is that Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. Replacing "and" with "because" is only your opinion.

LOL. OK, Th87, Snake likes your posts (not only in the past, but now) but you aren't helping the post struggle between the know-it-all (Ty) and know-it-some (Snake).

Please adhere your comments as such to consider. Thanks. :roll:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Dante KILLED a dude cuz he WAS fucked up. I don't care if dude ran across the street. He killed the dude cuz he was OWI. That's the point.

They weren't able to prove that.

Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. This is not the same as, "Stallworth hit a guy BECAUSE he was intoxicated." It's this "because" that the prosecution did not even try to prove, as they didn't feel strongly about that "because".

So the fact is is that Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. Replacing "and" with "because" is only your opinion.

LOL. OK, Th87, Snake likes your posts (not only in the past, but now) but you aren't helping the post struggle between the know-it-all (Ty) and know-it-some (Snake).

Please adhere your comments as such to consider. Thanks. :roll:

And Gunakor, etc.

Still waiting for your answer. Hint: Just copy Th87.

[SnakeLH2006]

You can do anything you want with the sig. I'm sure the Admin will look on it favorably. :oops:

Hahaha...Snake just fucks around. But I doubt (no 100% doubt) that Joe would rule in your favor. I won't do it, but WTF, I still like ya, even though we have pulled some late night RAT rantings at each other. Doubt Joe would EVER rule in YOUR favor though. Go with that. That is good stuff.

Still waiting.

Watching you backpedal is hilarious. And, the only one ranting is you. Good thing i had your post about partial screen capped. Just like this link...not like you would ever deny personal attacks...not you. :oops:

I laugh. Still do. Snake don't backpedal shit. Partial? What??? I like the guy. He likes me. What do you have to offer? Me and Admin are tight. I'm not attacking you. Do you really have a prob? Snake laughs. I jest at your posts, as you do at mine? Do you hate the Snake? LOL. I have no prob. with you TY, except that you think you are smarter than all. Refresh:

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Ty%20is%20smarter%20than%20A LL.%20Einstein%20FAILS.

Partial. Oh, you mean where you made fun of him as being the best poster ever....then took it down.

You aren't attacking. Really? Should i create a post of your past 2 weeks? I guess you telling me to watch my back and how i was about on the outs, that was all fun. You stalking my posts in other threads and just flaming..not even responding the post. Yep, that was all just good fun.:roll:

At least man up.

Ty hasn't seen such backpedaling since Deion was in the league.

Fact: Snake has no problem with Ty.
Fact: Snake calls it how it is (rarely right).
Fact: The Partial shit don't matter. I rip him with slights. He likes me and vice versa. Partial is cool.
Fact: Snake is going through alot of personal shit lately (the past month or two), and to take posts and ammend them is your call. I still don't hate ya, Ty, regardless is your call (I go post to post). Go ahead if you feel the big man.
Fact: I'm still jesting. Be cool. Snake likes to mess around, but if you really dig personal, (I'm not) go ahead. Doubt you'lll be on here next week.

I really don't care. Don't know why you got to get all personal, as I like you overall, just chill sometimes. I'd be your friend. It's up to you (Snake has more shit going on in real life than you could imagine), but if not. Go at it.

[th87]

And as far as Plax goes, he broke the law, and was responsible.

The law was upheld, sure, but was justice (as a concept) served? The law exists to serve man, and not the other way around. Does Plax going to jail for two years serve us? I'm not so sure.

A lesser sentence would serve the same purpose as a deterrent (I know it's mandatory, and I'm criticizing this law itself). I'm not certain that this would have a discernible effect on people being armed to clubs. Famous people will continue to get in armed, but maybe they'll be more careful.

A better outcome would be a more reasonable sentence taking into account intent, and Plax's danger to society. Then have him talk to kids about the dangers of guns and the pointlessness of violence. His stature could be used to reach more people.

That I feel would serve us far better.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty has acknowledged your personal shit. If you read after your flames you'd have seen it.

Doesn't give snake the right to be an asshole. Makes it understandable, but it aint' your right. Perhaps, that is why Howard asked about me and Nutz..cause it was entertaining..your shit...not entertaining.

And, when you fuck up, and you've been called out...man up at least. Won't expect an apology, but at least man up.

That being said, ty doesn't care. It is what it is. Hope things work out for your fam.

[Tarlam!]

People should not be allowed to carry concealed weapons. People kill. They maim.

If my daughter or son were at a nightclub where people carried concealed weapons I would want the owner's head.

I'm glad the law is so stiff and it was upheld. And TH87, society is being served everytime a criminal gets what he deserves.

[th87]

Dante KILLED a dude cuz he WAS fucked up. I don't care if dude ran across the street. He killed the dude cuz he was OWI. That's the point.

They weren't able to prove that.

Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. This is not the same as, "Stallworth hit a guy BECAUSE he was intoxicated." It's this "because" that the prosecution did not even try to prove, as they didn't feel strongly about that "because".

So the fact is is that Stallworth hit a guy AND he was intoxicated. Replacing "and" with "because" is only your opinion.

LOL. OK, Th87, Snake likes your posts (not only in the past, but now) but you aren't helping the post struggle between the know-it-all (Ty) and know-it-some (Snake).

Please adhere your comments as such to consider. Thanks. :roll:

I gotta stay out of the PR beef. Call me Krayzie Bone to your Pac and Big.

[th87]

People should not be allowed to carry concealed weapons. People kill. They maim.

If my daughter or son were at a nightclub where people carried concealed weapons I would want the owner's head.

I'm glad the law is so stiff and it was upheld. And TH87, society is being served everytime a criminal gets what he deserves.

What's the difference in effectiveness between say 6 months and 2 years?

[Tarlam!]

He broke the law that said a minimum of 2 years for carrying a concealed weapon. Thank God he only shot himself. If it were your child, you would have a different attitude.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

People should not be allowed to carry concealed weapons. People kill. They maim.

If my daughter or son were at a nightclub where people carried concealed weapons I would want the owner's head.

I'm glad the law is so stiff and it was upheld. And TH87, society is being served everytime a criminal gets what he deserves.

Please don't allow your kids to come to the states. Since many people carry concealed weapons. And, fyi, many bouncers have concealed weapons.

Is it ok for your kids to be at a convenience store that has patrons with concealed weapons?

You do understand that all states allow people to carry concealed weapons...only 46 require a permit. This ain't europe. Ty doesn't think you understand how many have them.

For instance: In Massachusetts, there are over 200K concealed weapons permits, there are about 4.5 million people allowed to have them (21 and older)..so that is like 1 out of 23 people that have a concealed weapons permit....and Tar, that is in the very, very liberal Mass.

While ty understands your opinion..ty doesn't understand why the owner should be fearful from you. The owner is following the law, and if the law allows it, then...well, then it allows it...as it does in AZ.

BTW, just to let you know, many states like Georgia, it is a misdemeanor charge for bringing a gun into a public place. Not a felony, but a misdemeanor.

[th87]

He broke the law that said a minimum of 2 years for carrying a concealed weapon. Thank God he only shot himself. If it were your child, you would have a different attitude.

I understand what you mean, but the argument isn't what the law was. The argument is with respect to the efficacy of the law.

Is it better to put someone away or is it better to rehabilitate them? Plax isn't a psychopath or a hardened thug. I think it's better to teach than to punish (unless they're beyond redemption).

[SnakeLH2006]

All Snake knows is that Tarlam JUST called me from Germany for 20 min on my cell. We don't hate you, Ty. Ease up and live life and be at peace, bro. Life is short, brother.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

All Snake knows is that Tarlam JUST called me from Germany for 20 min on my cell. We don't hate you, Ty. Ease up and live life and be at peace, bro. Life is short, brother.

Posted by snake at 2:34..


Snake never insinuated he, or I, was better than you, TY, but I did inisinuate you have no friends as a poster on RATS or in real life. That I mean. You might be a friendless ass bastard that should kill himself. Snake is only judging that off your posts (knowing ya). Snake (long distance and local) has friends. Who do you have on Rats? Name 'em. Peace, Snakey.

Sorry, that was mean. You can't name one. No one likes you on PackerRats. You have NO friends. My bad.

Psycho.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

As asked, and never answered....why did the prosecutor cut a deal? Just answer it.

Do you know? Unless we are all privileged to court documents none of us know. Could be all kinds of political reasons.....when all else fails, that rules. Maybe the case was not airtight and the prosecutor relayed that to the family. From what I've read the family was in agreement with the deal. Maybe they felt it was better to get a financial settlement then to put him in prison. It's crazy to even debate these things when SOOOO much goes on behind the scenes that none of us know.

Yes. Because they saw the evidence and realized that they could lose the case.

Political: There is perhaps the smallest of small minorities that wanted Dante to walk. The political reality is that prosecutors keep their job by being tough on crime. Not by cutting deals.

Family: Yes. they agreed. Because they saw the tape, realized that it would be bad to bring it up in court...certainly not going to look good for the father, etc.

Settlement: they woulda got it anyway in a civil suit. Just like OJ.

Scenes: Actually, it is pretty much in the open. That is what is so nice about our criminal system. Open records law.

[SnakeLH2006]

Ty is a great poster. He brings insanely good Packer knowledge. He should not be banned. He has at least 1 friend who can vouch for him as a Rat? NO? Ban the fucking asshole.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty is a great poster. He brings insanely good Packer knowledge. He should not be banned. He has at least 1 friend who can vouch for him as a Rat? NO? Ban the fucking asshole.

Sad.

[SnakeLH2006]

Ty is a great poster. He brings insanely good Packer knowledge. He should not be banned. He has at least 1 friend who can vouch for him as a Rat? NO? Ban the fucking asshole.

Sad.

My bad. You don't have one Rat who can vouch for you. Maybe you just piss EVERYONE off with your negative ass vibe, CPK.....TY. I'd be real worried if I was you. Hate the Snake, but you are the one banned once and pissing Rats off. No? We'll see? Talk some more shit. I make a checklist. Snake says you are NEXT. Good luck. All you do is talk smart.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty is a great poster. He brings insanely good Packer knowledge. He should not be banned. He has at least 1 friend who can vouch for him as a Rat? NO? Ban the fucking asshole.

Sad.

My bad. You don't have one Rat who can vouch for you. Maybe you just piss EVERYONE off with your negative ass vibe, CPK.....TY. I'd be real worried if I was you. Hate the Snake, but you are the one banned once and pissing Rats off. No? We'll see? Talk some more shit. I make a checklist. Snake says you are NEXT. Good luck. All you do is talk smart.

Sad.

[MOBB DEEP]

A better outcome would be a more reasonable sentence taking into account intent, and Plax's danger to society. Then have him talk to kids about the dangers of guns and the pointlessness of violence. His stature could be used to reach more people.

That I feel would serve us far better.

NOT rocket science

[Gunakor]

As asked, and never answered....why did the prosecutor cut a deal? Just answer it.

Do you know? Unless we are all privileged to court documents none of us know. Could be all kinds of political reasons.....when all else fails, that rules. Maybe the case was not airtight and the prosecutor relayed that to the family. From what I've read the family was in agreement with the deal. Maybe they felt it was better to get a financial settlement then to put him in prison. It's crazy to even debate these things when SOOOO much goes on behind the scenes that none of us know.

Snake is laughing his ass off, but yep, 007, that's about it. No doubt they took millions to let it go. But the point is this. Dante KILLED a dude cuz he WAS fucked up. I don't care if dude ran across the street. He killed the dude cuz he was OWI. That's the point.

Snake, please be honest here. If Dante was NOT OWI, and had been driving perfectly sober when that guy ran out in front of his car, is Dante still guilty of killing a man? My point is that the OWI wasn't the reason the guy got hit. If Dante is sober, the guy still gets killed. If Dante is sober, the guy still gets killed. I can't say that enough times. If Dante is sober, and the guy runs out right in front of his car, the guy still gets killed. So who's fault is it? It isn't the alcohol's fault here, because whether Dante was under the influence or not, the guy still gets killed. A sober person could not have avoided that one. So you can't say Dante killed him. Dude killed himself. Suicide by car. Suicide by stupidity.

I assume you've watched the tape by now. So tell me, when I say that if Dante was sober the guy still gets killed, am I lying? Pretend that's a sober person behind the wheel - just pretend here - would the driver of that car have had time to avoid killing that guy? No. So don't blame the driver. Don't blame the alcohol. Blame the dumbfuck that didn't have the common sense to look both ways and wait for traffic to clear before crossing the street. Then charge Dante with the only crime he's truly guilty of, one that is very serious but is NOT murder. DWI. That's all.

30 days in prison for a first offense DWI is a far harsher punishment than anyone here in Wisconsin would receive for a first offense DWI. I know people that haven't sat in jail for 30 days for a SECOND offense DWI. I'd say justice was served here.

[Gunakor]

Does Plax going to jail for two years serve us? I'm not so sure.

I can almost guarantee that 2 years in prison will serve as a far greater deterrent to Plax from bringing his gun into a club anymore than 2 years probation, which would be amended so that he could play football and travel with the team and do all the things that he's always done, thus preserving his lifestyle of old and changing nothing.

I love it, and as I've argued with Ty, I think it's important. Leave your guns at home. Or go to jail. I wish that were the way it was everywhere. Guns are dangerous. They have no business out in public. End of story.

I wish we could put everybody who brings guns into public in jail for 2 years, whether the gun goes off or not.

[SkinBasket]

I wish we could put everybody who brings guns into public in jail for 2 years, whether the gun goes off or not.

I wish people would stop comparing cases that have absolutely nothing in common other than they involve NFL players as the defendants.

If you want to argue that Plaxico is being treated unfairly, you've got to do it within the framework of his case, not someone else's. They have nothing in common and have nothing to with with each other.

[Gunakor]

I wish we could put everybody who brings guns into public in jail for 2 years, whether the gun goes off or not.

I wish people would stop comparing cases that have absolutely nothing in common other than they involve NFL players as the defendants.

If you want to argue that Plaxico is being treated unfairly, you've got to do it within the framework of his case, not someone else's. They have nothing in common and have nothing to with with each other.

I did. I argued both cases, but in separate posts. I made no comparison between the two at all...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I wish we could put everybody who brings guns into public in jail for 2 years, whether the gun goes off or not.

I wish people would stop comparing cases that have absolutely nothing in common other than they involve NFL players as the defendants.

If you want to argue that Plaxico is being treated unfairly, you've got to do it within the framework of his case, not someone else's. They have nothing in common and have nothing to with with each other.

Talk to your boy Snake. He is the one making that argument. You got his back right?

[pbmax]

He broke the law that said a minimum of 2 years for carrying a concealed weapon. Thank God he only shot himself. If it were your child, you would have a different attitude.
Two of the laws he was originally charged and indicted with (two counts of second-degree criminal possession of a weapon) carried 3.5 year minimums.

The charge he plea bargained down to, attempted criminal possession of a weapon was not listed as carrying a minimum by reports I read. But for the purposes of the deal, all it had to do was allow a sentence of two years.

[Scott Campbell]

I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrone gets up close and personal with a 2 year mandatory sentence.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrone gets up close and personal with a 2 year mandatory sentence.

for what?