Stirring the Pot...or Good Reporting?

[Fritz]

This morning's JSO article, which followed up on Rouse's release, contained the following lines:

"And safety Aaron Rouse finally was released by the team Wednesday. But several of his teammates had long ago figured out Rouse hadn't proved himself capable of a roster spot. As a third-round pick, however, it seemed that he was given extra time to develop.

There also are players still on the team that some players believe have not earned their spots."

There is no mention of sources, or sources inside the locker room. I'm curious how the writer knows this and in what context it was said.

It's an interesting question as to whether Rouse was given too much rope. Obviously the writer of the article thought so, or thought that some inside the organization felt this way. And Rouse seemed to suck rather hard.

On the other hand, he showed some flashes his rookie year, and safeties sometimes do take a few years to develop (Sharper is the usual example). However, the article makes it appear that somebody - coaches? players? Both? knew a while ago Rouse was not cutting it, but that Thompson would not cut him.

Not sure what to make of all this. Was Anthony Smith a better choice, and Rouse kept instead because he was a "Thompson pick"? Or is this some of that grumbling that occurs when a team lays a big egg? Or is the JSO making m ore out of this than is really there in order to stir the pot and create a buzz?

[pbmax]

I think, unless there is specific doubt about a young established starter, this would be normal veteran sentiment about callow rookies and other young players who do not recognize the challenge that faces them.

[KYPack]

There is a quirky little quote in Bedard's article.

He says Mac said in his presser,

"We're going to line up and play just the way we did every day, nothing's going to change, we're not changing any plays, any practice schedules, any linemen . . .  OK? So we're going down to St. Louis to win a game and we're going to play our type of football. That's our approach."


Yeah, he did say some of that. but he also said more.

After "lineman", MM said 'any safeties" when he addressed the media. I noted this in the thread on it. Bedard ommited the reference to safeties after cutting last week's starter bc it sounded a little wierd.

This article was gift-wrapped and handed to the press bc the coaches and mgt wanted the message spread to the team. Get going or you are gonna be gone. MM knows the lads have to step it up quick or the season could well be lost.

I like the sense of urgency, but hope the message gets thru. We will see.

[Fritz]

So do you agree with PB that this would be just the usual grousing by vets about rookies who do not earn their keep and do not understand what they are expected to do?

If that's the case, what is the purpose of mentioning it the article?

While you may be correct that MM used this as an opportunity to send a message to players, the JSO seems to be using it in part as an opportunity to suggest that there is discord in the locker room because Thompson, at least, is giving undeserving players roster spots.

[denverYooper]

So do you agree with PB that this would be just the usual grousing by vets about rookies who do not earn their keep and do not understand what they are expected to do?

If that's the case, what is the purpose of mentioning it the article?

While you may be correct that MM used this as an opportunity to send a message to players, the JSO seems to be using it in part as an opportunity to suggest that there is discord in the locker room because Thompson, at least, is giving undeserving players roster spots.

I got the same impression Fritz.

[AtlPackFan]

So do you agree with PB that this would be just the usual grousing by vets about rookies who do not earn their keep and do not understand what they are expected to do?

If that's the case, what is the purpose of mentioning it the article?

While you may be correct that MM used this as an opportunity to send a message to players, the JSO seems to be using it in part as an opportunity to suggest that there is discord in the locker room because Thompson, at least, is giving undeserving players roster spots.

I got the same impression Fritz.

Do you all think he is referring to spots on the team or starting spots? I have seen discussion here and elsewhere about whether or not Hawk has earned his spot and whether or not Spitz/Sitton should be starting over Wells/Spitz. Of course with Clifton's injury, the later is a moot point for a couple of weeks but I wonder if the "vets" were referring to roster spots or starting spots?

[Fritz]

This is a good question, Atl. Could it also refer to players on injured reserve?

Is there anything more to this story than the usual grumblings one might find in any organization of any size in any business?

It's so difficult to tell if this season really is, so far, playing out like most of last year's, or if the paper is simply stirring the pot.

[bobblehead]

In reading between the lines I take this to mean everyone knows chillar and Bishop should be starting over Hawk and Barnett :shock:

[pbmax]

Bedard had a nasty tiff with Jason Taylor in Miami. I wonder if his sources are mostly players he gets close to and then airs their dirty laundry? Wilde does something similar (he is tight with Al Harris and Mark Tauscher for instance), but he is Bill Belicheck compared to some of the stuff Bedard speculates on.

The closest Wilde came to causing real trouble was Al Harris and the OTAs in McCarthy's first year. Poor Harlan had a whole thread to himself of people telling him he was wrong that weekend.

I give Bedard credit though, he called Favre's shoulder injuries. Of course, he did manage to whiff on the prognosis at first.

[hoosier]

I think we should take Bedard's lead and begin wild speculations on who might be skating by without having earned his stripes. Who are the three or four players in the GB lockerroom that everyone else despises and gossips about behind their backs?

Jermichael Finley comes to mind. He's extremely athletic and looked great in preseason but, when the real games start, he suddenly disappears. Never mind that he was frequently seen disappearing in the vicinity of Allen Barbre against CHI, which was kind of a mini Bermuda Triangle. But what was his excuse against CIN? Don't forget that Finley, like Rouse, was a 3rd round draft pick. Not good enough for the first day but too talented to cut right away.

Allen Barbre also comes to mind, for obvious reasons.

Brohm would come to mind too if he hadn't been cut. But maybe there are guys on the practice squad who create lockerroom resentment by virtue of being there and not out in the street.

[sharpe1027]

I think we should take Bedard's lead and begin wild speculations on who might be skating by without having earned his stripes. Who are the three or four players in the GB lockerroom that everyone else despises and gossips about behind their backs?

Jermichael Finley comes to mind. He's extremely athletic and looked great in preseason but, when the real games start, he suddenly disappears. Never mind that he was frequently seen disappearing in the vicinity of Allen Barbre against CHI, which was kind of a mini Bermuda Triangle. But what was his excuse against CIN? Don't forget that Finley, like Rouse, was a 3rd round draft pick. Not good enough for the first day but too talented to cut right away.


Finley was second only to DD in the Cinci game. He had 4 catches for 56 yards, despite our offense being virtually non-existent all day. Between him and driver they had well over half the total passing yards.

Last year he was a rookie and only started getting any significant time at the end of the year. I am not sure why/how he "disappears" since he never "appeared" and has been consitently getting more and more invovled.

[Partial]

In reading between the lines I take this to mean everyone knows chillar and Bishop should be starting over Hawk and Barnett :shock:

Everyone on WSSP, including former Packers Gary Ellerson and LeRoy Butler are 100% in this corner. Too much politics!!

[hoosier]

I think we should take Bedard's lead and begin wild speculations on who might be skating by without having earned his stripes. Who are the three or four players in the GB lockerroom that everyone else despises and gossips about behind their backs?

Jermichael Finley comes to mind. He's extremely athletic and looked great in preseason but, when the real games start, he suddenly disappears. Never mind that he was frequently seen disappearing in the vicinity of Allen Barbre against CHI, which was kind of a mini Bermuda Triangle. But what was his excuse against CIN? Don't forget that Finley, like Rouse, was a 3rd round draft pick. Not good enough for the first day but too talented to cut right away.


Finley was second only to DD in the Cinci game. He had 4 catches for 56 yards, despite our offense being virtually non-existent all day. Between him and driver they had well over half the total passing yards.

Last year he was a rookie and only started getting any significant time at the end of the year. I am not sure why/how he "disappears" since he never "appeared" and has been consitently getting more and more invovled.

Well it's about time. Why did he have to keep us waiting for more than a year before starting to put up such stellar numbers? Last year he wasn't just a rookie, he was a know-it-all rookie who couldn't walk the walk when his time came. :lol:

I'm just kidding, of course. For the most part anyway. Just trying to have a little fun with the shi* that Bedard seems to be stirring up. Let's see if we can turn it back into chicken salad.

[pbmax]

In reading between the lines I take this to mean everyone knows chillar and Bishop should be starting over Hawk and Barnett :shock:

Everyone on WSSP, including former Packers Gary Ellerson and LeRoy Butler are 100% in this corner. Too much politics!!
Yes, because if message board posters and former players agree, then the only explanation is politics. :roll:

[rbaloha1]

In reading between the lines I take this to mean everyone knows chillar and Bishop should be starting over Hawk and Barnett :shock:

Amen

[rbaloha1]

In reading between the lines I take this to mean everyone knows chillar and Bishop should be starting over Hawk and Barnett :shock:

Everyone on WSSP, including former Packers Gary Ellerson and LeRoy Butler are 100% in this corner. Too much politics!!

Quick where are the Hawk apologists or the mumble jumble explanations of filling gaps?

[Tony Oday]

Bishop=Hodge 2.0

and Chillar plays a lot doesn't he?

[gex]

In reading between the lines I take this to mean everyone knows chillar and Bishop should be starting over Hawk and Barnett :shock:

Everyone on WSSP, including former Packers Gary Ellerson and LeRoy Butler are 100% in this corner. Too much politics!!

Quick where are the Hawk apologists or the mumble jumble explanations of filling gaps?

I would agree with this also.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

sunday can not happen soon enough

[rbaloha1]

Chillar is one of the few players excelling in pre season that is having a good regular season. Maybe Bishop is also capable. Sure deserves a chance.

[Partial]

In reading between the lines I take this to mean everyone knows chillar and Bishop should be starting over Hawk and Barnett :shock:

Everyone on WSSP, including former Packers Gary Ellerson and LeRoy Butler are 100% in this corner. Too much politics!!
Yes, because if message board posters and former players agree, then the only explanation is politics. :roll:

You don't agree that it has to do with limited snaps and they have to play the guy they paid? Bishop was everywhere on the field in PS. Even if it doesn't mean anything, doesn't that at least earn him a few snaps to show what he can do against live bullets?

[falco]

Right, because the guy who kicked Brett Favre to the curb is worried about the politics of who he plays.... :roll:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Chillar is one of the few players excelling in pre season that is having a good regular season. Maybe Bishop is also capable. Sure deserves a chance.

tyrell sutton deserves a chance as well

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Right, because the guy who kicked Brett Favre to the curb is worried about the politics of who he plays.... :roll:

He cut ruvell...clearly he is ruthless

[falco]

Right, because the guy who kicked Brett Favre to the curb is worried about the politics of who he plays.... :roll:

He cut ruvell...clearly he is ruthless

That's true, and he's being a big meany who won't resign Tauscher just so that he can retire a packer!

[Partial]

Right, because the guy who kicked Brett Favre to the curb is worried about the politics of who he plays.... :roll:

1. People *do* learn from mistakes.

2. This team is in win now mode, you sit Hawk and Barnett and you've got a lockerroom problem.

What other logical explanation is there for Bishop not getting on the field at all despite making plays all PS and has been solid on ST so far this season?

He hasn't played a single snap from scrimmage, where as even guys like Spencer Havner have.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Right, because the guy who kicked Brett Favre to the curb is worried about the politics of who he plays.... :roll:

1. People *do* learn from mistakes.

2. This team is in win now mode, you sit Hawk and Barnett and you've got a lockerroom problem.

What other logical explanation is there for Bishop not getting on the field at all despite making plays all PS and has been solid on ST so far this season?

He hasn't played a single snap from scrimmage, where as even guys like Spencer Havner have.

Wait, don't they already have a lockerroom problem...guys are grumbling about players? I guess he burden is on you to show that the current lockerroom grumbling would be less than if those 2 were sat.

Logic: Well, this is shocking for you. You want to use logic. Well, this is some logic...because the coaches don't feel he is as good as the current starters. That would seem to be the most logical explanation. Occam's razor, partial.

Here is a question for you. Seriously. What is it that compels you to find guys like Money Morency, Ruvell, and now Bishop and champion them...despite widely acknowledged sentiment they arent' good (bish, in fairness, we will hold off on...though, to be fair on the other side.....32 teams passed on him for 5 rounds and this is his 3rd year..with a new DC who holds no prejudices against him).

What is it that compels you to feel that they aren't being given a fair shot and that the world conspires against them?

[pbmax]

You don't agree that it has to do with limited snaps and they have to play the guy they paid? Bishop was everywhere on the field in PS.
I think the one unequivocal lesson of this young season is that PreSeason means nothing. So, no, Bishop making plays against 2s most of camp is not a lock for playing time. And remember, he didn't start practicing at Hawk's position until just before Lansana was released. So his time at Buck has been limited. There is plenty of time for him to get acclimated.

For Chillar, he is clearly ahead of Barnett in most respects and his snaps prove it. Forget who gets introduced and plays the first snap of the game.

In general (and without anything to go on other than gut feeling) I think T2 has the biggest hand in roster construction like Wolf did. But I'd be surprised if he is calling the shots on starting lineups.

[rbaloha1]

Chillar is one of the few players excelling in pre season that is having a good regular season. Maybe Bishop is also capable. Sure deserves a chance.

tyrell sutton deserves a chance as well

amen

[Tyrone Bigguns]

TT controls everything.

Who starts. TT
Flavor of sports drink. TT
Direction Lambeau is mowed. TT
Locker assignments. TT
Team meals. TT
Obama appointees. TT

Everything is under TT's control. TT is a freemason and illuminati while at the same time is a knights templar, member of the tri lateral commission, and selects locations for the Bilderberg Group to meet.

TT also has been implicated in the kennedy assination, arms sales, as well as agitating against several gov'ts in central and south america.

[KYPack]

You don't agree that it has to do with limited snaps and they have to play the guy they paid? Bishop was everywhere on the field in PS.
I think the one unequivocal lesson of this young season is that PreSeason means nothing. So, no, Bishop making plays against 2s most of camp is not a lock for playing time. And remember, he didn't start practicing at Hawk's position until just before Lansana was released. So his time at Buck has been limited. There is plenty of time for him to get acclimated.

For Chillar, he is clearly ahead of Barnett in most respects and his snaps prove it. Forget who gets introduced and plays the first snap of the game.

In general (and without anything to go on other than gut feeling) I think T2 has the biggest hand in roster construction like Wolf did. But I'd be surprised if he is calling the shots on starting lineups.

I wondered why in the hell he got all those snaps at mack myself.

I guess the rationale was to get him covering more so he could get some kind of feel for the job. But this is a new D for him. Wouldn't they have been better off letting Bishop get reps at his more natural position?

I dunno, it seemed like a waste of live reps to me.

[Partial]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/61382847.html

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Chillar is one of the few players excelling in pre season that is having a good regular season. Maybe Bishop is also capable. Sure deserves a chance.

tyrell sutton deserves a chance as well

amen

Sad when the stoners don't get the sarcasm. :wink:

[rbaloha1]

Chillar is one of the few players excelling in pre season that is having a good regular season. Maybe Bishop is also capable. Sure deserves a chance.

tyrell sutton deserves a chance as well


amen

Sad when the stoners don't get the sarcasm. :wink:

truly it is...just like the crack smokers.

[Waldo]

I give Bedard credit though, he called Favre's shoulder injuries. Of course, he did manage to whiff on the prognosis at first.

He did?

I thought that his initial prognosis was a torn rotator cuff. Before the bicep stuff even came out. It's been said that the cuff likely predates the bicep tendon, by potentially a long time.

Which led me full circle to how he would know that. He was pretty convinced early, well before it come out in any other source, that Brett had an injured shoulder. Did he just guess lucky, not only guessing that he had an injury, but also what it was? Not the initial prognosis that was reported, that was actually a problem, but in fact the other thing that was found, that potentially went back to his Packer days. Did the Packers know about it?

To look at potential nerve damage an MRI is often performed. It is entirely possible that the Packers spotted it by doing an MRI on his throwing arm/shoulder looking at the reasons his hand was numb after the Dallas game.

Or in the "full body scan". Anther thing the Packers do. I believe that they have an MRI done as the absolute first thing of the season, and the absolute last thing of the season.

Just looking at it, they had chances, if Brett's rotator cuff tear predates his retirement, it is entirely possible that the Packers knew about it. And given Bedards very early proclamation of a "potential shoulder injury, possibly a torn rotator cuff" at the end of the season, he was saying it and nobody else was, it almost seems like he's verifying that the Packers knew about it and somehow he caught wind.

After all, that would be very hard to keep quiet forever. More than just the Doc would know; the coach, GM, President, Board. Somebody not under a Doctor-Patient confidentiality thing would eventually leak it, even if only off the record, after all, the whole Favre "fiasco" can be seen in an entirely new light if in fact the team knew that he had a torn rotator cuff. It makes the team's position through the whole thing far more understandable.

And the hiring of Ari as an adviser that much more important.

[pbmax]

You don't agree that it has to do with limited snaps and they have to play the guy they paid? Bishop was everywhere on the field in PS.
I think the one unequivocal lesson of this young season is that PreSeason means nothing. So, no, Bishop making plays against 2s most of camp is not a lock for playing time. And remember, he didn't start practicing at Hawk's position until just before Lansana was released. So his time at Buck has been limited. There is plenty of time for him to get acclimated.

For Chillar, he is clearly ahead of Barnett in most respects and his snaps prove it. Forget who gets introduced and plays the first snap of the game.

In general (and without anything to go on other than gut feeling) I think T2 has the biggest hand in roster construction like Wolf did. But I'd be surprised if he is calling the shots on starting lineups.

I wondered why in the hell he got all those snaps at mack myself.

I guess the rationale was to get him covering more so he could get some kind of feel for the job. But this is a new D for him. Wouldn't they have been better off letting Bishop get reps at his more natural position?

I dunno, it seemed like a waste of live reps to me.
You may have something there, but my assumption when Waldo pointed this out during camp (the Press Gazette was much clearer on LB roles than Bedard) was that it related to numbers.

Barnett couldn't practice. They are down to one full-time Mack (Chillar). Lansana isn't a cover guy, he is a banger, so he has to stay at Buck. So if Hawk is poised to start at Buck, that leaves Bishop at Mack until Barnett is back and Lanasana is on his way out.

I wonder if perhaps Bishop was too quick to attack the LOS as Mack, that is, gave too little time to his reads for misdirection or play action? Maybe that was the initial cause of the coaches reluctance? He looks great when he knows what play is headed his way? Would explain the fawning coverage and the now obvious far more measured response of the coaches.

[pbmax]

I give Bedard credit though, he called Favre's shoulder injuries. Of course, he did manage to whiff on the prognosis at first.

He did?

I thought that his initial prognosis was a torn rotator cuff. Before the bicep stuff even came out. It's been said that the cuff likely predates the bicep tendon, by potentially a long time.
I was referring to a line of Bedard's thinking in the middle of the Viking speculation during the X-Ray FedEx, the incognito trip to Alabama for the surgery and the expectation of recovery time after the surgery was announced. Bedard initially was skeptical that Favre's physical problems could be wrapped up neatly by the bicep procedure. He kept mentioning being able to push a finger deep into Favre's shoulder, pointing out (correctly) that there was more than just a bicep tendon that needed work.

He was wrong when he concluded that the simple procedure and the short recovery time would not be enough to bring him back to play or explain the delay. His hook was that if the problem was that simple, there would be no reason to wait. He suspected that Favre did not want to commit to surgery for fear that the rotator cuff would need work as well.

There is no fault here for Bedard. No one knows why Favre waited (contract negotiations, avoiding camp, fear of surgery, painkiller issue?). But so far the rotator cuff hasn't come back to haunt him.

[Fritz]

I was in a waiting room at a hospital once and fell to talking with the woman next to me. She said her daughter was having surgery, so I asked what for. She said, "They want to rotate her cuff."

[MichiganPackerFan]

I was in a waiting room at a hospital once and fell to talking with the woman next to me. She said her daughter was having surgery, so I asked what for. She said, "They want to rotate her cuff."

Fritz that was damn painful. I guess you have to try in order to succeed, but that was painful.

[Fritz]

I bet her daughter's cuff was painful when they rotated her cuff!

[Waldo]

I give Bedard credit though, he called Favre's shoulder injuries. Of course, he did manage to whiff on the prognosis at first.

He did?

I thought that his initial prognosis was a torn rotator cuff. Before the bicep stuff even came out. It's been said that the cuff likely predates the bicep tendon, by potentially a long time.
I was referring to a line of Bedard's thinking in the middle of the Viking speculation during the X-Ray FedEx, the incognito trip to Alabama for the surgery and the expectation of recovery time after the surgery was announced. Bedard initially was skeptical that Favre's physical problems could be wrapped up neatly by the bicep procedure. He kept mentioning being able to push a finger deep into Favre's shoulder, pointing out (correctly) that there was more than just a bicep tendon that needed work.

He was wrong when he concluded that the simple procedure and the short recovery time would not be enough to bring him back to play or explain the delay. His hook was that if the problem was that simple, there would be no reason to wait. He suspected that Favre did not want to commit to surgery for fear that the rotator cuff would need work as well.

There is no fault here for Bedard. No one knows why Favre waited (contract negotiations, avoiding camp, fear of surgery, painkiller issue?). But so far the rotator cuff hasn't come back to haunt him.

I remember Bedards first hint of a shoulder injury for Brett back in January-February, right as the draft season was starting to heat up.