kampman

[red]

this guy is a waste in our system

he's average at best dropping back and he hardly seems to be rushing the passer

we've managed to take one of the best defensive players in the game and turn him into a liability

he should have been traded in the offseason, and has to be traded this offseason is we are going to keep this system

he is way to valuable to waste on what he's doing now

[Tarlam!]

The commentary during last night's game was full of the above sentiment and many posters were also demanding that he put his hand down, finally.

He certainly seemed out of place when I was focussing on him.

[rbaloha1]

this guy is a waste in our system

he's average at best dropping back and he hardly seems to be rushing the passer

we've managed to take one of the best defensive players in the game and turn him into a liability

he should have been traded in the offseason, and has to be traded this offseason is we are going to keep this system

he is way to valuable to waste on what he's doing now

Agree. Wasted pass rusher. 3-point stance and go.

[Merlin]

We may have to trade him for a high pick and that's sad because he is a hell of a player, just not a great 3-4 lb.

[mraynrand]

We may have to trade him for a high pick and that's sad because he is a hell of a player, just not a great 3-4 lb.

I'm sure Kampman's stock is soaring at present and teams are lining up to give up a high pick for him.

[Rastak]

We may have to trade him for a high pick and that's sad because he is a hell of a player, just not a great 3-4 lb.

I'm sure Kampman's stock is soaring at present and teams are lining up to give up a high pick for him.

Isn't he a free agent next year?

[red]

We may have to trade him for a high pick and that's sad because he is a hell of a player, just not a great 3-4 lb.

I'm sure Kampman's stock is soaring at present and teams are lining up to give up a high pick for him.

Isn't he a free agent next year?

yeah, thats why we should probably try and do something, you know, now

while we can still get something for him

i would imagine TT would be burned at the stake if he just let kampman walk

[Rastak]

We may have to trade him for a high pick and that's sad because he is a hell of a player, just not a great 3-4 lb.

I'm sure Kampman's stock is soaring at present and teams are lining up to give up a high pick for him.

Isn't he a free agent next year?

yeah, thats why we should probably try and do something, you know, now

while we can still get something for him

i would imagine TT would be burned at the stake if he just let kampman walk




If you franchise him the you have leverage and can get something. Otherwise a team could just wait and sign him in the offseason.

[red]

the problem is, what if you franchise him and no one bites?

then we're stuck with a guy that really isn't good at his position, but we're paying him buttloads

and would he be franchised as a OLB or a DE? or are they pretty close in money?

[Rastak]

the problem is, what if you franchise him and no one bites?

then we're stuck with a guy that really isn't good at his position, but we're paying him buttloads

and would he be franchised as a OLB or a DE? or are they pretty close in money?

Yea, the minute he signs that tender you have to get whatever you can.....that's the risk.

[Merlin]

I don't think his stock has diminished, teams are smart enough to know that he is in a new position. I can see someone giving us a high pick for Kampman to play DE. I don't know what scares me more, Kampman as a DL in the 3-4 or Jenkins & Picket dropping back into coverage.

[Ballboy]

One has to question:

Is Kampman better as a down lineman in the 3-4 or a LB in the 3-4?

I REALLY think that even though he doesn't have the "size" everyone thinks he should have for a 3-4 DL, his play or lack of playmaking ability at LB almost makes him a liability at the position. Would the likes of Poppy be better for the LB and then use Kampman at DL? The fact of the matter is he held up fine against the run in previous years.

[sharpe1027]

Kampman was about the only guy to even sniff Favre last night. He has also been pretty outstanding in the run game. Unlike Popping, Kamp stays home and plays the runner very well off the block.

I don't get the big whine job by the announcers. Once they even complained about him dropping into coverage when the replay clearly showed him rushing the passer. Talking points.

[rbaloha1]

Fish out of water dropping in coverage. AK needs to be rushing the passer 90 % of the time via stunts, loops, etc.

[Brando19]

Okay...lets say TT decides to trade Kampman for a player or two to help the team immediately. Who do you trade him for?

[ThunderDan]

Okay...lets say TT decides to trade Kampman for a player or two to help the team immediately. Who do you trade him for?

I can't think of any teams that are going to want to give away a starting left tackle. The only team I think that might would be the 0-4 Browns. I doubt it happens, we would have to throw in draft picks also.

[HowardRoark]

Okay...lets say TT decides to trade Kampman for a player or two to help the team immediately. Who do you trade him for?

I can't think of any teams that are going to want to give away a starting left tackle. The only team I think that might would be the 0-4 Browns. I doubt it happens, we would have to throw in draft picks also.

I doubt they would let Joe go, but that would sure be a nice deal for us.

[Brando19]

Okay...lets say TT decides to trade Kampman for a player or two to help the team immediately. Who do you trade him for?

I can't think of any teams that are going to want to give away a starting left tackle. The only team I think that might would be the 0-4 Browns. I doubt it happens, we would have to throw in draft picks also.

I doubt they would let Joe go, but that would sure be a nice deal for us.

Hell yeah...Kampman for Joe Thomas. Get on the phone, Ted.

[mraynrand]

Okay...lets say TT decides to trade Kampman for a player or two to help the team immediately. Who do you trade him for?

I can't think of any teams that are going to want to give away a starting left tackle. The only team I think that might would be the 0-4 Browns. I doubt it happens, we would have to throw in draft picks also.

I doubt they would let Joe go, but that would sure be a nice deal for us.

The Browns are monumentally stupid, but this is beyond even them. Perhaps If Joe Thomas played for the Bucs or the Raiders we might have a shot.

[Partial]

Okay...lets say TT decides to trade Kampman for a player or two to help the team immediately. Who do you trade him for?

I can't think of any teams that are going to want to give away a starting left tackle. The only team I think that might would be the 0-4 Browns. I doubt it happens, we would have to throw in draft picks also.

No way are they going to give up a star LT in the middle of a rebuilding process.

Nobody is going to trade during the season.

[The Leaper]

1. Kampman was a 4-3 DE last year...and was relatively average. Sorry to break the news to you guys, but his best days as a pass rusher are behind him. He isn't going to rack up 12+ sacks in a season anymore.

2. He is very effective in his current role...and should continue to improve. If anything, the switch will extend Kampy's career if he decides to stay in Green Bay.

3. We ain't getting much of anything for him...so why trade him? 3rd round pick at best IMO.

[pbmax]

Okay...lets say TT decides to trade Kampman for a player or two to help the team immediately. Who do you trade him for?

I can't think of any teams that are going to want to give away a starting left tackle. The only team I think that might would be the 0-4 Browns. I doubt it happens, we would have to throw in draft picks also.

No way are they going to give up a star LT in the middle of a rebuilding process.

Nobody is going to trade during the season.
I am forced to conclude that Partial is indeed logical and correct on this point. Not even the Browns are this dumb. The Raiders? If you catch Al before a nap, you might have a chance.

Kampman's situation, if it continues like this and he doesn't adjust (or he isn't put at DE full-time) is going to get ugly. To have leverage, the Packers will need to tag him and they will try to tag him as an OLB. There will be a grievance and all the while Ted will be trying to trade him to a 4-3 team. Fortunately, the Carolina Panthers are desperate enough to make this happen.

[rbaloha1]

1. Kampman was a 4-3 DE last year...and was relatively average. Sorry to break the news to you guys, but his best days as a pass rusher are behind him. He isn't going to rack up 12+ sacks in a season anymore.

2. He is very effective in his current role...and should continue to improve. If anything, the switch will extend Kampy's career if he decides to stay in Green Bay.

3. We ain't getting much of anything for him...so why trade him? 3rd round pick at best IMO.

Disagree with this assessment. The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de. What are you seeing in his lb drops to indicate AK is a better 3-4 olb?

[The Leaper]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

[rbaloha1]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

[The Leaper]

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Comparing Kampman and White or Long is a real stretch to say the least.

[rbaloha1]

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Comparing Kampman and White or Long is a real stretch to say the least. Just comparing certain moves. AK is not a hall of famer at this point.

Do not be surprised AK is a Viking next season.

[mngolf19]

[quote="rbaloha
Do not be surprised AK is a Viking next season.[/quote]

Bingo!

[swede]

Do not be surprised AK is a Viking next season.


If so, it would be yet another situation that blows up in TT's face.


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/tedfroblownup.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

[Partial]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Because most teams employ 2.

However, pb is prolly wrong as they spent a first round pick on a DE this year.

[rbaloha1]

Do not be surprised AK is a Viking next season.


If so, it would be yet another situation that blows up in TT's face.


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/tedfroblownup.jpg

AK almost left before.

[rbaloha1]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Makes sense to franchise. Imagine Jared Allen and AK.

[rbaloha1]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Please answer TB since you have all the right answers.

[swede]

AK almost left before.

I remember. We spent days on JSO ( I think it was still back in the day) arguing about whether kampmann was average, over-achieving with limited talent, or just a guy.

He was so close to wearing purple, and he would have kicked our ass twice a year for quite a while. It was great that we met the Vikings price.

Sad that he really is such a great guy and a marginal fit for our D.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Please answer TB since you have all the right answers.

Ty doesn't have all the right answers, but we are still waiting for you to address Leaper's point...3.5 in his last 10.

His production is falling. Can you deny the trend?

He is getting old. Can he be a productive player...sure, but elite or very good...doubtful. Smart money is to get what you can for him.

Or figure out a way to make him a situational end so as to keep him fresh...or whatever position you wanna call it under Capers.

Nothing i'm saying detracts from him as a player or his contributions. Players get old.

BTW, you mite notice i didn't agree with Leaper about his effectiveness in our system.

[Partial]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/63723342.html

[Gunakor]

Is the franchise tag tied to the CBA that expires after this season? Would the Packers even be allowed to tag Kampy if no new CBA is reached before the end of the 2009 season?

[Fritz]

Bring back V-Bob! He used Kampman in a 4-3 as a defensive end.

Now there was a coach who knew how to utilize Kampman's skills!

[Cheesehead Craig]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?
Agree, the franchise tag will be used. I thought I heard some talking head on ESPN saying that JP is having a terrible season and there's some concerns about him. That could be what PB is refferring to.

[denverYooper]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Lombardi kicks around the notion that Peppers might be a good fit with the Pack, although he thinks it's probably unlikely:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/DMN-Should-Panthers-trade-Peppers.html

[Deputy Nutz]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Well he did wear down. Like I said in another thread most teams need two good pass rushers on the d-line for one to shine. KGB never recovered from injury and was cut through the midway point of last year. Jenkins tore his pectoral muscle in the Cowboy game which was week 3. The Packers defensive line never recovered losing the top two pass rushers at the other end spot. Pickett is no pass rusher and Jolly is a decent inside rusher, but was also recovering from shoulder surgery. There was no Corey Williams because he was traded.

So at this point please feel free to tell me where the pass rush was going to come from outside of Aaron Kampman? Really tell me. Mike Montgomery? Jeremy Thompson? You have to be kidding me.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Well he did wear down. Like I said in another thread most teams need two good pass rushers on the d-line for one to shine. KGB never recovered from injury and was cut through the midway point of last year. Jenkins tore his pectoral muscle in the Cowboy game which was week 3. The Packers defensive line never recovered losing the top two pass rushers at the other end spot. Pickett is no pass rusher and Jolly is a decent inside rusher, but was also recovering from shoulder surgery. There was no Corey Williams because he was traded.

So at this point please feel free to tell me where the pass rush was going to come from outside of Aaron Kampman? Really tell me. Mike Montgomery? Jeremy Thompson? You have to be kidding me.

That is all true. No doubt about it. Which only underscores the fact that he is not powerful and explosive. As you have astutely pointed out, Kampman isn't a natural guy. He has worked at it.

Now, i'm not discrediting him, i'm only looking at him objectively. If he can't get his sacks on his own and needs a better supporting staff...and he is getting older...I think it is time to realize his best days are behind him.

That is no slam on him. I'm simply looking at him the same way we did with Vonnie Holliday. After Reggie retired, holliday suddenly wasn't much of a pass rusher.

You posit that you need 2 pass rushers..and i wouldn't totally disagree, but i would say that Mario Williams, Reggie, Jared Allan...are gonna get there sacks regardless of who is opposite them. I respect the hard work, effort and tenacity he brings...but, those things tend to diminish as one gets older.

But, the real crux was the trend...and it still was going down. And, the question really is do you think he is going to maintain? I don't.

At 31 next year, is AK worth the big dollars? I say no. You say? If we keep the 3-4..then he is what he is now...or we figure out a way to get him more on the line..which i am open to, as i still think he has value.

I guess the real question is do you want to sign him for big dollars in some 4-5 year front loaded contract?

I'd rather spend the money on a safety, OL, CB than on him...and if we can trade him for a player or a decent pick...then i'm in favor of it. I'd rather get rid of player a year early than a year late, and signing a 31 year old DE imho can only lead to problems.

Unless we get him at a hometown discount.

[wist43]

I've said all along that Kampman is a natural 4-3 end and would be a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB... I don't see him "improving" in his current role. In his current role, he is miscast.

If Capers gets a clue, he will adjust his game plans to ensure more 4-3 fronts with AK having his hand on the ground, and Raji lined up next to him. My perference would be to blitz like crazy out of the 3-4, but they don't have the personnel to get home. As I've said, it is going to take a couple of years to transition to 3-4 personnel.

Not sure I see that happening though... I acknowledge that Capers is a good coach, but I've always seen him as being too conservative.

As for next year... don't see them franchising AK. He'll simply walk, and I expect him to land a decent FA contract; not top $$$, but above avg.

[pbmax]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?
Agree, the franchise tag will be used. I thought I heard some talking head on ESPN saying that JP is having a terrible season and there's some concerns about him. That could be what PB is refferring to.
Carolina is starting Julius Peppers and Tyler Brayton at DE, the 1st round pick Brown is the backup at RDE behind Peppers and 3rd at LDE. Peppers will be 30 next year and still does not seem to be the same player he was prior to the injury that affected him last year.

Carolina tried to spend money to upgrade the line for this season and so far has had mixed results. This year they have 4 sacks, two by linebackers, one by Peppers and one by tackle Louis Leonard (who isn't on the depth chart and has played only the first two games - might be hurt?).

Peppers plays RDE so Kampman wouldn't unseat him. Not sure if the draft pick can play LDE. The contention about trading him to Carolina was simply to point out that there would be a market for a 4-3 DE if the Packers tag him, which I think they will. Carolina might be a place for him to land as the run that D, are struggling on the D line and have spent money on this position in the past.

Absent a CBA extension, teams will have "one franchise tag and one transition tag or two transition tags to limit the options of unrestricted free agents" in 2010 according to PFT.

[mraynrand]

The one game I saw Peppers play this year, he looked awful. He gave up outside contain several times, was undisciplined and did the 'dancing bear' routine with O-lineman so much that it reminded me of 'Ole Cleedeus. Football players start getting hurt a little bit, get a little bit old, and unless they are Favre playing against the Packers, they start falling apart, sometimes very rapidly (I'm still holding out hope for a swoon from Favre starting Nov 1). Maybe even Kampman is hitting that wall and the crazy 3-4 is just exposing it more clearly.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I've said all along that Kampman is a natural 4-3 end and would be a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB... I don't see him "improving" in his current role. In his current role, he is miscast.

If Capers gets a clue, he will adjust his game plans to ensure more 4-3 fronts with AK having his hand on the ground, and Raji lined up next to him. My perference would be to blitz like crazy out of the 3-4, but they don't have the personnel to get home. As I've said, it is going to take a couple of years to transition to 3-4 personnel.

Not sure I see that happening though... I acknowledge that Capers is a good coach, but I've always seen him as being too conservative.

As for next year... don't see them franchising AK. He'll simply walk, and I expect him to land a decent FA contract; not top $$$, but above avg.

Are you suggesting that you haven't seen AK already improve in the 3-4? I sure have, and i think most would agree.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've said all along that Kampman is a natural 4-3 end and would be a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB... I don't see him "improving" in his current role. In his current role, he is miscast.

If Capers gets a clue, he will adjust his game plans to ensure more 4-3 fronts with AK having his hand on the ground, and Raji lined up next to him. My perference would be to blitz like crazy out of the 3-4, but they don't have the personnel to get home. As I've said, it is going to take a couple of years to transition to 3-4 personnel.

Not sure I see that happening though... I acknowledge that Capers is a good coach, but I've always seen him as being too conservative.

As for next year... don't see them franchising AK. He'll simply walk, and I expect him to land a decent FA contract; not top $$$, but above avg.

Are you suggesting that you haven't seen AK already improve in the 3-4? I sure have, and i think most would agree.

I'd like to think he has. He's a solid smart player. Maybe I'm not looking at his play correctly. Im just not hearing his name as having made a play.

[wist43]

Well, the Packers have what? 5 sacks as a team in 4 games??? AK has one??? No where to go but up from there.

You guys keep trying to put lipstick on a pig, but the bottom line is AK is a 4-3 End trying to play OLB in a 3-4... no other way to slice that one fellas.

I'm an AK supporter, always have been... he's outperformed what my expectations for him were, that's for sure; but, again, he is what he is - a 4-3 End... and a damn good one at that. As a 3-4 OLB??? he's below average.

Does he sound happy about the change in scheme??? Of course not.. it doesn't fit his game. Clearly, he'll be playing somewhere else next year... hopefully not the Vikings :roll:

[Fritz]

Somewhere out there, somewhere, is some sick dude who likes lipstick on pigs and is offended by the expression...

[denverYooper]

Somewhere out there, somewhere, is some sick dude who likes lipstick on pigs and is offended by the expression...

http://www.ugo.com/movies/top-movie-monsters/images/buffalo-bill.jpg

[Deputy Nutz]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Well he did wear down. Like I said in another thread most teams need two good pass rushers on the d-line for one to shine. KGB never recovered from injury and was cut through the midway point of last year. Jenkins tore his pectoral muscle in the Cowboy game which was week 3. The Packers defensive line never recovered losing the top two pass rushers at the other end spot. Pickett is no pass rusher and Jolly is a decent inside rusher, but was also recovering from shoulder surgery. There was no Corey Williams because he was traded.

So at this point please feel free to tell me where the pass rush was going to come from outside of Aaron Kampman? Really tell me. Mike Montgomery? Jeremy Thompson? You have to be kidding me.

That is all true. No doubt about it. Which only underscores the fact that he is not powerful and explosive. As you have astutely pointed out, Kampman isn't a natural guy. He has worked at it.

Now, i'm not discrediting him, i'm only looking at him objectively. If he can't get his sacks on his own and needs a better supporting staff...and he is getting older...I think it is time to realize his best days are behind him.

That is no slam on him. I'm simply looking at him the same way we did with Vonnie Holliday. After Reggie retired, holliday suddenly wasn't much of a pass rusher.

You posit that you need 2 pass rushers..and i wouldn't totally disagree, but i would say that Mario Williams, Reggie, Jared Allan...are gonna get there sacks regardless of who is opposite them. I respect the hard work, effort and tenacity he brings...but, those things tend to diminish as one gets older.

But, the real crux was the trend...and it still was going down. And, the question really is do you think he is going to maintain? I don't.

At 31 next year, is AK worth the big dollars? I say no. You say? If we keep the 3-4..then he is what he is now...or we figure out a way to get him more on the line..which i am open to, as i still think he has value.

I guess the real question is do you want to sign him for big dollars in some 4-5 year front loaded contract?

I'd rather spend the money on a safety, OL, CB than on him...and if we can trade him for a player or a decent pick...then i'm in favor of it. I'd rather get rid of player a year early than a year late, and signing a 31 year old DE imho can only lead to problems.

Unless we get him at a hometown discount.


I do not see or want the Packers to spend money on Kampman if they are going to use him as a 3-4 OLB unless he drastically improves from his performance as of right now.

Mario Williams had a good year last year but they also drafted that young buck out of Louisville, I can't think of his name or if he was that productive last year.

Jared Allen has the Williams at defensive tackles, especially Kevin Williams who is a heck of a pass rusher up the middle.

I don't think it really matters, the other key point is that Kampman played like 65 snaps a game last year. He never came off the field due to lack of depth at defensive line and especially at end. One other reason he wore out at the end of last year.

Kampman being 31 is a red flag. If he signs a long term deal you can't expect him to last the entire contract.

I am also not one of those people that believes that the organization has to be loyal to Packer people.

[Partial]

I don't think Kampman is in the top tier of ends but he is right below them. I think he'd be a very good player, but like all guys they need a rest every now and again.

I suspect they'll try to tag him and trade him for a #2. Somebody would give up a #2 if they think tehy have a shot to contend, especially if it's a low 2.

Pack need to draft a T, S, DL, LB and CB next year. Get two tackles spend the rest of the picks on D.

[Zool]

RB

[Sparkey]

Three tags instead of one

Currently, a team can put either a franchise tag (average of the top five salaries at his position) or a transition tag (average of the top ten salaries at his position) on any one player on the club to protect the team from losing the unrestricted free agent. If the NFL gets to an uncapped year in 2010 and 2011, teams will have use of one franchise tag and two transition tags. So not only would none of the young players with less than six years of service be free, but now the top three players who are eligible for free agency on a roster can be protected.

If this situation existed in 2008, a team like Pittsburgh -- which used a transition tag to retain OT Max Starks -- could have also tagged Alan Faneca with either a transition or franchise tag if it so desired. If every team in the league used one or two tags, not even the three they would possess, it could take another 40 quality free agents off the market.

If next year is uncapped, there will be nothing available in the FA market for linemen on either side of the ball

[pbmax]

Three tags instead of one

Currently, a team can put either a franchise tag (average of the top five salaries at his position) or a transition tag (average of the top ten salaries at his position) on any one player on the club to protect the team from losing the unrestricted free agent. If the NFL gets to an uncapped year in 2010 and 2011, teams will have use of one franchise tag and two transition tags. So not only would none of the young players with less than six years of service be free, but now the top three players who are eligible for free agency on a roster can be protected.

If this situation existed in 2008, a team like Pittsburgh -- which used a transition tag to retain OT Max Starks -- could have also tagged Alan Faneca with either a transition or franchise tag if it so desired. If every team in the league used one or two tags, not even the three they would possess, it could take another 40 quality free agents off the market.

If next year is uncapped, there will be nothing available in the FA market for linemen on either side of the ball
Second part is unclear. Of course some teams will spend a fortune, but others will fall well below the salary cap floor.

However, since it will take 6 years to become an UFA, there pool will be shallower than normal as lots of 4 and 5 year guys will be RFAs.

First part is different than I have heard. I understood that teams can only choose to use two tags whether it is one of each (franchise, transition) or two transitions.

[pbmax]

In other Carolina Panther depth chart news, Na'il Diggs still starting.

And former Badger Nick Hayden is starting.

[rbaloha1]

In other Carolina Panther depth chart news, Na'il Diggs still starting.

And former Badger Nick Hayden is starting.

What about the Broncos in the 3-4 -- Holiday and Kenny Peterson both starting and playing well. Recall a board member clamoring for Holiday.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

In other Carolina Panther depth chart news, Na'il Diggs still starting.

And former Badger Nick Hayden is starting.

What about the Broncos in the 3-4 -- Holiday and Kenny Peterson both starting and playing well. Recall a board member clamoring for Holiday.

Kenny played HS ball with McDaniels.

[GrnBay007]

http://host.madison.com/sports/football/article_33509f2a-814b-5f46-8090-4402933fc1f1.html


Favre singled out rookie right tackle Phil Loadholt, who didn't let Packers speed rusher Aaron Kampman get a whiff of his quarterback all night long.

"I told him at the end of the game I was extremely proud of him because I know how good Aaron Kampman is," Favre said. "To hold your own against him is pretty impressive. I could say that about all our guys this year."