MM Was Outcoached: Gave up on the run

[packerbacker1234]

Yeah, we all know we got beat down in the trenches, but was it really as simple as just getting beat? Favre didn't get pressured, but before that game he had been consistently pressured, and hit, by supposedly inferior opponents.

What did the vikings do to rid our pressure?

Ran the ball. They ran it even if it wasn't working.

Adrian Peterson: 25 Carries, 55 Yards.
Ryan Grant: 11 Carries, 51 Yards

So they ran it despite it not working, to keep defenders off of Favre. Meanwhile, running it WAS working for GB, and we stopped doing it. How does that make any sense to anyone? MM has been known for giving up on the run way too eary in play calling, but in this on monday he failed bad. We actually COULD run the ball, and instead we just seemed to throw it on every down.

It's getting old. Ryan Grant is not nearly as bad as people make him out to be, blame MM, who consistently takes the ball out of his hands, even when it is working.

[Fritz]

I agree. I think MM gave up on the run way, way way too soon. He gave up on the run when the game was tied at 14.

He didn't do his offensive linemen any favors with his play calling.

[MOBB DEEP]

Yeah, we all know we got beat down in the trenches, but was it really as simple as just getting beat? Favre didn't get pressured, but before that game he had been consistently pressured, and hit, by supposedly inferior opponents.

What did the vikings do to rid our pressure?

Ran the ball. They ran it even if it wasn't working.

Adrian Peterson: 25 Carries, 55 Yards.
Ryan Grant: 11 Carries, 51 Yards

So they ran it despite it not working, to keep defenders off of Favre. Meanwhile, running it WAS working for GB, and we stopped doing it. How does that make any sense to anyone? MM has been known for giving up on the run way too eary in play calling, but in this on monday he failed bad. We actually COULD run the ball, and instead we just seemed to throw it on every down.

It's getting old. Ryan Grant is not nearly as bad as people make him out to be, blame MM, who consistently takes the ball out of his hands, even when it is working.

Good points

[mraynrand]

I agree. I think MM gave up on the run way, way way too soon. He gave up on the run when the game was tied at 14.

He didn't do his offensive linemen any favors with his play calling.

The Packer offense pretty much didn't touch the ball after MN went up 14-7. They got the ball back and had three pass attempts for 0,5, and sacked. Perhaps on that drive a run might have worked. Still, the next play was Matthews TD, then MN had a long drive to use up all but 30 sec in the half and then MN used up a lot of time scoring a TD at the start of the third. By the time the Packers offense got the ball again in the 3rd Quarter, they were down two TDs. McCarthy never had a chance to run the ball with the score tied.

[rbaloha1]

Sometimes MM acknowledges abandoning the run too quickly.

IMO for the run to work properly A-rod needs to get in rhythm early which opens up the running lanes. Whatever happened to the draw?

[Fritz]

I agree. I think MM gave up on the run way, way way too soon. He gave up on the run when the game was tied at 14.

He didn't do his offensive linemen any favors with his play calling.

The Packer offense pretty much didn't touch the ball .after MN went up 14-7. They got the ball back and had three pass attempts for 0,5, and sacked. Perhaps on that drive a run might have worked Still, the next play was Matthews TD, then MN had a long drive to use up all but 30 sec in the half and then MN used up a lot of time scoring a TD at the start of the third. By the time the Packers offense got the ball again in the 3rd Quarter, they were down two TDs. McCarthy never had a chance to run the ball with the score tied.

Yes, that would have been exactly the time to run the ball a little.

I also don't know why, with over 15 minutes to play, being two touchdowns down somehow disqualifies a team from running. What, you're afraid your team might take up seven or eight minutes on a drive? So there'd be eight or nine minutes left and you're down by one touchdown, or maybe ten points?

You don't have to get pass happy that soon. MM - in my completely expert opinion, having coached my 16 year old daughter on the finer points of powder puff football for five minutes earlier this evening - abandons the run too soon, if he ever even gives it a shot.

[mraynrand]

I agree. I think MM gave up on the run way, way way too soon. He gave up on the run when the game was tied at 14.

He didn't do his offensive linemen any favors with his play calling.

The Packer offense pretty much didn't touch the ball .after MN went up 14-7. They got the ball back and had three pass attempts for 0,5, and sacked. Perhaps on that drive a run might have worked Still, the next play was Matthews TD, then MN had a long drive to use up all but 30 sec in the half and then MN used up a lot of time scoring a TD at the start of the third. By the time the Packers offense got the ball again in the 3rd Quarter, they were down two TDs. McCarthy never had a chance to run the ball with the score tied.

Yes, that would have been exactly the time to run the ball a little.

I also don't know why, with over 15 minutes to play, being two touchdowns down somehow disqualifies a team from running. What, you're afraid your team might take up seven or eight minutes on a drive? So there'd be eight or nine minutes left and you're down by one touchdown, or maybe ten points?

You don't have to get pass happy that soon. MM - in my completely expert opinion, having coached my 16 year old daughter on the finer points of powder puff football for five minutes earlier this evening - abandons the run too soon, if he ever even gives it a shot.

Sure, mix it up. But let's look at reality: down two scores, McCarthy calls 4 runs for 10 yards not counting the QB scramble, and 9 passes with two sacks on a drive that should have resulted in a TD. Is this giving up on the run? It's not great production from the run game, but the run was in there.

GNB MIN
1st and 10 at GNB 18 A.Rodgers scrambles left end ran ob at GB 23 for 5 yards.
2nd and 5 at GNB 23 A.Rodgers sacked at GB 21 for -2 yards (J.Allen).
3rd and 7 at GNB 21 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Nelson to GB 31 for 10 yards (A.Winfield).
1st and 10 at GNB 31 A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Nelson to GB 35 for 4 yards (A.Winfield).
2nd and 6 at GNB 35 (Shotgun) R.Grant up the middle to GB 39 for 4 yards (C.Greenway).
3rd and 2 at GNB 39 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Driver to MIN 37 for 24 yards (E.Henderson, C.Griffin).
1st and 10 at MIN 37 R.Grant left end to MIN 35 for 2 yards (M.Williams).
2nd and 8 at MIN 35 A.Rodgers pass short left to D.Driver to MIN 21 for 14 yards (C.Griffin).
1st and 10 at MIN 21 A.Rodgers sacked at MIN 25 for -4 yards (B.Robison).
2nd and 14 at MIN 25 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to R.Grant to MIN 5 for 20 yards (T.Johnson).
1st and 5 at MIN 5 (Shotgun) R.Grant right guard to MIN 1 for 4 yards (E.Henderson).
2nd and 1 at MIN 1 J.Kuhn left guard to MIN 1 for no gain (C.Greenway).
3rd and 1 at MIN 1 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Finley to MIN 1 for no gain (B.Leber) [R.Edwards].
Timeout #1 by GB at 02:18.
4th and 1 at MIN 1 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to D.Lee.

[Harlan Huckleby]

shit, maybe they could have ran it more. But I thought the play calling was pretty imagninative, they managed to move the ball reasonably well despite have the inferior line play. You can't condemn the results too much.

[denverYooper]

I thought M3 was outbearded, certainly. I mean, Chilly had a manly forest on his chin. That was the deciding factor.

You just can't fuck with this:
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/9dce02639c_vikings09082009.jpg

[superfan]

I'm not convinced running the ball more would have resulted in a victory, and this is one of those topics that a coach will be criticized for either way if his team loses.

We didn't run much and lost, therefore we should have run more. If McCarthy had committed to a 50-50 run/pass split while behind in the second half, we would all be ripping him for trying to run against the tough Vikings run defense instead of throwing the ball. Lose-lose situation for the coach.

[bobblehead]

I agree. I think MM gave up on the run way, way way too soon. He gave up on the run when the game was tied at 14.

He didn't do his offensive linemen any favors with his play calling.

The Packer offense pretty much didn't touch the ball .after MN went up 14-7. They got the ball back and had three pass attempts for 0,5, and sacked. Perhaps on that drive a run might have worked Still, the next play was Matthews TD, then MN had a long drive to use up all but 30 sec in the half and then MN used up a lot of time scoring a TD at the start of the third. By the time the Packers offense got the ball again in the 3rd Quarter, they were down two TDs. McCarthy never had a chance to run the ball with the score tied.

Yes, that would have been exactly the time to run the ball a little.

I also don't know why, with over 15 minutes to play, being two touchdowns down somehow disqualifies a team from running. What, you're afraid your team might take up seven or eight minutes on a drive? So there'd be eight or nine minutes left and you're down by one touchdown, or maybe ten points?

You don't have to get pass happy that soon. MM - in my completely expert opinion, having coached my 16 year old daughter on the finer points of powder puff football for five minutes earlier this evening - abandons the run too soon, if he ever even gives it a shot.

Sure, mix it up. But let's look at reality: down two scores, McCarthy calls 4 runs for 10 yards not counting the QB scramble, and 9 passes with two sacks on a drive that should have resulted in a TD. Is this giving up on the run? It's not great production from the run game, but the run was in there.

GNB MIN
1st and 10 at GNB 18 A.Rodgers scrambles left end ran ob at GB 23 for 5 yards.
2nd and 5 at GNB 23 A.Rodgers sacked at GB 21 for -2 yards (J.Allen).
3rd and 7 at GNB 21 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Nelson to GB 31 for 10 yards (A.Winfield).
1st and 10 at GNB 31 A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Nelson to GB 35 for 4 yards (A.Winfield).
2nd and 6 at GNB 35 (Shotgun) R.Grant up the middle to GB 39 for 4 yards (C.Greenway).
3rd and 2 at GNB 39 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Driver to MIN 37 for 24 yards (E.Henderson, C.Griffin).
1st and 10 at MIN 37 R.Grant left end to MIN 35 for 2 yards (M.Williams).
2nd and 8 at MIN 35 A.Rodgers pass short left to D.Driver to MIN 21 for 14 yards (C.Griffin).
1st and 10 at MIN 21 A.Rodgers sacked at MIN 25 for -4 yards (B.Robison).
2nd and 14 at MIN 25 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to R.Grant to MIN 5 for 20 yards (T.Johnson).
1st and 5 at MIN 5 (Shotgun) R.Grant right guard to MIN 1 for 4 yards (E.Henderson).
2nd and 1 at MIN 1 J.Kuhn left guard to MIN 1 for no gain (C.Greenway).
3rd and 1 at MIN 1 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Finley to MIN 1 for no gain (B.Leber) [R.Edwards].
Timeout #1 by GB at 02:18.
4th and 1 at MIN 1 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to D.Lee.

You actually posted 1 of my HUGE gripes. 2nd and 1 at 1...standard set and run. 3rd and 4th...shotgun and pass. I called every play in that sequence starting with the 1st and 5 at the 5 based on the alignment...If I'm doing it, the D probably has a clue. I even nailed the FB dive play and the pass from the one not into the endzone.

How about a little bubba franks history...line up in a power running formation and release a TE. Oh yea, wouldn't work anyway cuz Lee would drop the fucking ball. Incidentally I did get 4th down wrong...I called a scrambling rodgers throws about 1 foot into the endzone for a touchdown...and then Lee dropped it.

[Fritz]

Four runs in fourteen plays is not, to me, "mixing it up." That's running it 29% of the time.

Running more makes your passing game more effective because it forces the defense to at least consider the run instead of anticipating the pass.

Me no like.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I thought M3 was outbearded, certainly. I mean, Chilly had a manly forest on his chin. That was the deciding factor.

You just can't fuck with this:
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/9dce02639c_vikings09082009.jpg

He is certainly starting to look like a viking. Lose the glasses and don him in the mascot's garb and I think you've got it.

[MichiganPackerFan]

You actually posted 1 of my HUGE gripes. 2nd and 1 at 1...standard set and run.

Personally, I LOVE play action on 2nd & 1, seems like an opportunity to do some real damage.

[Cheesehead Craig]

You actually posted 1 of my HUGE gripes. 2nd and 1 at 1...standard set and run.

Personally, I LOVE play action on 2nd & 1, seems like an opportunity to do some real damage.

But at the goal line, you're not sucking the defense in to hit a long pass. Real estate is limited down there as are your pass options.

[MichiganPackerFan]

You actually posted 1 of my HUGE gripes. 2nd and 1 at 1...standard set and run.

Personally, I LOVE play action on 2nd & 1, seems like an opportunity to do some real damage.

But at the goal line, you're not sucking the defense in to hit a long pass. Real estate is limited down there as are your pass options.

True. I was talking more in general...

[MadtownPacker]

Fire Tubby if he doesnt get his fat ass in gear. He is getting a look stuck on his face during games that I dont like. The confident swagger dude from 06-08 is starting to crack.

[mmmdk]

McCarthy = McCoach

Do you believe in Magic?

[mraynrand]

Fire Tubby if he doesnt get his fat ass in gear. He is getting a look stuck on his face during games that I dont like. The confident swagger dude from 06-08 is starting to crack.

Stubby never had a swagger - was more like a swagger/waddle - a 'swaddle' if you will. Now Stubby is starting to look like a weeble - he will wobble but won't fall down.

[pbmax]

How about a little bubba franks history...line up in a power running formation and release a TE.
They ran this play with Finley, he did not get clear of the LB and it went nowhere.

[swede]

Fire Tubby if he doesnt get his fat ass in gear. He is getting a look stuck on his face during games that I dont like. The confident swagger dude from 06-08 is starting to crack.

Stubby never had a swagger - was more like a swagger/waddle - a 'swaddle' if you will. Now Stubby is starting to look like a weeble - he will wobble but won't fall down.


Don't get me wrong, I like the factual and statistical analysis of this forum's football geeks. We have some of the best I've seen and I learn a lot from them.

But the reason that i come to this forum is that--honest to God-- I find these two posts to be informed and informative about the state of the team. Why? I don't know. As Brent would say...

"Ah wish ah knew."

And p.s.: Stubby could at least comb his hair or get a haircut before he comes down to do the press conferences, couldn't he? It takes more than a dirty sweatshirt to be Bill Bellicheck.

[bobblehead]

How about a little bubba franks history...line up in a power running formation and release a TE.
They ran this play with Finley, he did not get clear of the LB and it went nowhere.

If you are talking about the toss short of the end zone it wasn't the same...I'm talking line up to power run, fake like a power run...the TE makes the hit, but gets "beat" and releases into the BACK of the endzone all alone for 6. Worked over and over with bubba over the years.

[packerbacker1234]

I agree. I think MM gave up on the run way, way way too soon. He gave up on the run when the game was tied at 14.

He didn't do his offensive linemen any favors with his play calling.

The Packer offense pretty much didn't touch the ball .after MN went up 14-7. They got the ball back and had three pass attempts for 0,5, and sacked. Perhaps on that drive a run might have worked Still, the next play was Matthews TD, then MN had a long drive to use up all but 30 sec in the half and then MN used up a lot of time scoring a TD at the start of the third. By the time the Packers offense got the ball again in the 3rd Quarter, they were down two TDs. McCarthy never had a chance to run the ball with the score tied.

Yes, that would have been exactly the time to run the ball a little.

I also don't know why, with over 15 minutes to play, being two touchdowns down somehow disqualifies a team from running. What, you're afraid your team might take up seven or eight minutes on a drive? So there'd be eight or nine minutes left and you're down by one touchdown, or maybe ten points?

You don't have to get pass happy that soon. MM - in my completely expert opinion, having coached my 16 year old daughter on the finer points of powder puff football for five minutes earlier this evening - abandons the run too soon, if he ever even gives it a shot.

Sure, mix it up. But let's look at reality: down two scores, McCarthy calls 4 runs for 10 yards not counting the QB scramble, and 9 passes with two sacks on a drive that should have resulted in a TD. Is this giving up on the run? It's not great production from the run game, but the run was in there.

GNB MIN
1st and 10 at GNB 18 A.Rodgers scrambles left end ran ob at GB 23 for 5 yards.
2nd and 5 at GNB 23 A.Rodgers sacked at GB 21 for -2 yards (J.Allen).
3rd and 7 at GNB 21 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Nelson to GB 31 for 10 yards (A.Winfield).
1st and 10 at GNB 31 A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Nelson to GB 35 for 4 yards (A.Winfield).
2nd and 6 at GNB 35 (Shotgun) R.Grant up the middle to GB 39 for 4 yards (C.Greenway).
3rd and 2 at GNB 39 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Driver to MIN 37 for 24 yards (E.Henderson, C.Griffin).
1st and 10 at MIN 37 R.Grant left end to MIN 35 for 2 yards (M.Williams).
2nd and 8 at MIN 35 A.Rodgers pass short left to D.Driver to MIN 21 for 14 yards (C.Griffin).
1st and 10 at MIN 21 A.Rodgers sacked at MIN 25 for -4 yards (B.Robison).
2nd and 14 at MIN 25 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to R.Grant to MIN 5 for 20 yards (T.Johnson).
1st and 5 at MIN 5 (Shotgun) R.Grant right guard to MIN 1 for 4 yards (E.Henderson).
2nd and 1 at MIN 1 J.Kuhn left guard to MIN 1 for no gain (C.Greenway).
3rd and 1 at MIN 1 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Finley to MIN 1 for no gain (B.Leber) [R.Edwards].
Timeout #1 by GB at 02:18.
4th and 1 at MIN 1 (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to D.Lee.

4 Runs in 14 plays, under 30% - come on. That entire drive was clearly "throw throw throw throw". 30% is not mixing it up. It's not even just on this drive: It's also earlier in the game. People ar elike "we didn't have hte ball when the game was tied" - oh wait we did, we threw it three times and punted. "but then minnesota went on this long drive, ate of the clock, and took the lead before half".

Yes, they did. Meaning after the score got tied, before half: GB had one possession, Minnesota had one possesion. The difference on both possessions? Minnesota ran the ball, the packers did not. Minnesota ate clock, the packers did not.

Look at the start of the drive down 15 - 4 straight passes before we consider a run. And, when is a run for 4 yards a bad run? 3 straight 4 yard runs is a first down with extra to spare. 11 carries, 51 yards. Thats a pretty solid average Grant was putting up, yet we didn't give him the ball early, and we didn't give it to him often.

THe different is pretty clear here. Does it matter? You run the ball period. If the game is close, you run it. You pound it to keep them honest. 25 carries should be a norm for grant in every game we play, save maybe a huge blowout where he rides pine. If it's 25 carries for 40 yards, so be it. I bet AR has 300+ yards passing, and 3 to 4 TD's, to compensate because pounding the rock kept defenders off his back.

I mean, hell what do I know about football? This seems to be how everyone else does it, but lets forget the "good" teams and go with AR throwing every damn first down. Thats how to open the passing game.