Packers' Rodgers still a work in progress

[woodbuck27]

Packers' Rodgers still a work in progress

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/10/10/packers-rodgers-still-a-work-in-progress

Packers!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It's also worth noting that those same people believe the uneven play up to now of the Packers' veteran playmakers — WR Greg Jennings particularly comes to mind — certainly hasn't helped Rodgers any.

[Brandon494]

I got nothing out of this article.

[swede]

I got nothing out of this article.

Perhaps you don't have an agenda. Get busy, son.

[Partial]

A very weak article but without a doubt there are still key questions about Rodgers. In PS, he looked great. To me this season he has looked pretty poor outside of a few key plays.

[retailguy]

A very weak article but without a doubt there are still key questions about Rodgers. In PS, he looked great. To me this season he has looked pretty poor outside of a few key plays.

It would be a rare QB that would look good whilst the line looks bad. I just don't get why you do not understand this...

Rodgers is NOT the problem.

[Partial]

A very weak article but without a doubt there are still key questions about Rodgers. In PS, he looked great. To me this season he has looked pretty poor outside of a few key plays.

It would be a rare QB that would look good whilst the line looks bad. I just don't get why you do not understand this...

Rodgers is NOT the problem.

I understand what you're saying I just do not agree with it entirely.

If he is so aware of where the next hit is coming from as you claim, why is he not unloading the ball in this case or scrambling to get out of the pocket and unload the ball?

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Play calling can easily compensate for the line play, so MM shares some of the blame.

[retailguy]

I understand what you're saying I just do not agree with it entirely.

If he is so aware of where the next hit is coming from as you claim, why is he not unloading the ball in this case or scrambling to get out of the pocket and unload the ball?

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Play calling can easily compensate for the line play, so MM shares some of the blame.

Making comparisons to the Steelers really isn't reasonable. Totally different kind of offense. Totally different commitment to the running game. It really isn't comparable. If we had a decent running game right now, the offense would have a better chance to execute. but we don't.

The WCO relies on "precise execution". If you don't have that, the whole thing falls apart. the OL doesn't have "precise anything". One week you get a good game out of a guy, the next, he looks like a turnstile. Rodgers does not know where the next hit is coming from. Neither do the coaches. You can't tailor your playcalling to something you can't predict.

He's holding the damn ball, because he has to find a way to do something with it. Favre could compensate because he had 15 seasons of experience at that time. Expecting that out of Rodgers is unreasonable.

Comparing him to Roethlisberger, who runs a very different offense, AND, has several seasons more experience is also unreasonable.

[Partial]

Making comparisons to the Steelers really isn't reasonable. Totally different kind of offense. Totally different commitment to the running game. It really isn't comparable. If we had a decent running game right now, the offense would have a better chance to execute. but we don't.

The WCO relies on "precise execution". If you don't have that, the whole thing falls apart. the OL doesn't have "precise anything". One week you get a good game out of a guy, the next, he looks like a turnstile. Rodgers does not know where the next hit is coming from. Neither do the coaches. You can't tailor your playcalling to something you can't predict.

He's holding the damn ball, because he has to find a way to do something with it. Favre could compensate because he had 15 seasons of experience at that time. Expecting that out of Rodgers is unreasonable.

Comparing him to Roethlisberger, who runs a very different offense, AND, has several seasons more experience is also unreasonable.

Steelers ranked 23rd in the NFL in rushing in 2008.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

You can tailor your playcalling to knowing there will be consistent pressure. The short slants, crossing routes, and screens have been virtually non-existant this year. Either ARod is missing them, or MM isn't calling them. I wouldn't be shocked by either.

Roethlisberger is a young QB, too. He's only been in the league one year longer than Rodgers AFAIK. I don't relate experience with knowing to get rid of the ball. I relate that to instincts. Last year he showed all the time that he would do it. This year, he's trying to be the man instead of doing the smart thing and chucking it away like last year.

The article says that Packer insiders think Rodgers are responsible for at least half of the sacks taken. That is really bad any way you slice it.

[falco]

RG, I agree 100% with the point you've been pushing the last few weeks. Hard to expect an QB to develop a rhythm with the line they've got.

[retailguy]

Making comparisons to the Steelers really isn't reasonable. Totally different kind of offense. Totally different commitment to the running game. It really isn't comparable. If we had a decent running game right now, the offense would have a better chance to execute. but we don't.

The WCO relies on "precise execution". If you don't have that, the whole thing falls apart. the OL doesn't have "precise anything". One week you get a good game out of a guy, the next, he looks like a turnstile. Rodgers does not know where the next hit is coming from. Neither do the coaches. You can't tailor your playcalling to something you can't predict.

He's holding the damn ball, because he has to find a way to do something with it. Favre could compensate because he had 15 seasons of experience at that time. Expecting that out of Rodgers is unreasonable.

Comparing him to Roethlisberger, who runs a very different offense, AND, has several seasons more experience is also unreasonable.

Steelers ranked 23rd in the NFL in rushing in 2008.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

You can tailor your playcalling to knowing there will be consistent pressure. The short slants, crossing routes, and screens have been virtually non-existant this year. Either ARod is missing them, or MM isn't calling them. I wouldn't be shocked by either.

Roethlisberger is a young QB, too. He's only been in the league one year longer than Rodgers AFAIK. I don't relate experience with knowing to get rid of the ball. I relate that to instincts. Last year he showed all the time that he would do it. This year, he's trying to be the man instead of doing the smart thing and chucking it away like last year.

The article says that Packer insiders think Rodgers are responsible for at least half of the sacks taken. That is really bad any way you slice it.

Willie Parker was a "threat" to take it on any play last year. The backups, Mendenhall and Moore, are much better than what we've got. Again, you've got a different offense, a point you ignored... Don't give me statistics. At the end of the day, teams can play well with crappy statistics. Teams can play poorly with good statistics.

Next, Roethlisberger has started how many games? Partial, you don't gain this experience by sitting on the bench. Rodgers and Roethlisberger aren't even comparable right now. Another season of experience for Rodgers? Then I'm on board. Not yet.

The only point you've made that I agree with is the playcalling. While it is tough to playcall when you don't know where the pressure is coming from, that's the only thing this team can do at this point. I said it was difficult, but didn't say impossible. McCarthy has to help out Rodgers, but so far, has stubbornly refused to alter the gameplan to the weapons he has.

Blaming Rodgers for "holding the ball" is ridiculous no matter who says it. You cannot tell me that Rodgers game is not impacted by the poor performance of this line. How do you measure the "impact" on Rodgers? How do you measure "skittishness"? This point is BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT no matter who says it, including McCarthy.

[retailguy]

RG, I agree 100% with the point you've been pushing the last few weeks. Hard to expect an QB to develop a rhythm with the line they've got.

Thanks for that. I do appreciate it. I just don't understand why we have so many inexperienced linemen. It is almost like we're trying to get Rodgers killed. I don't get it. Young QB's need a good line. What young QB has developed as a youngster behind a bad line? I remember Steve Young and Vinny Testaverde trying to play behind bad lines in Tampa. They became great QB's after they left, but were soundly criticized as being busts during their time there.

[falco]

It's funny, I thought MMs ability to gameplan around our weaknesses was the whole reason for 13-3 in 2007. But this year, I'm not sure anymore.

[PlantPage55]

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.


False. I have watched damn near every football game that has been available to me for the last, maybe, 6 years, and that includes a lot of Big Ben Steeler games. He has been stellar, but his bad line is not as bad as ours is.

I have NEVER seen a QB have to run for his life as much as Rodgers has. The success he is actually having is way more than one should reasonably expect out of a guy. I've never seen pass blocking this bad before. Never. Not even David Carr with the Houston Texans. Aaron needs to get rid of the ball sooner, but look at how often he'd be doing so! Our O-Line is a turnstile right now.

[retailguy]

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.


False. I have watched damn near every football game that has been available to me for the last, maybe, 6 years, and that includes a lot of Big Ben Steeler games. He has been stellar, but his bad line is not as bad as ours is.

I have NEVER seen a QB have to run for his life as much as Rodgers has. The success he is actually having is way more than one should reasonably expect out of a guy. I've never seen pass blocking this bad before. Never. Not even David Carr with the Houston Texans. Aaron needs to get rid of the ball sooner, but look at how often he'd be doing so! Our O-Line is a turnstile right now.

He's looking at the statistics again. Yes, they were bad statisticly but, when it matters they weren't really that bad. Also, they steadily improved as the year went on. This year, they are much improved as an OL. Probably the most improved OL in the NFL.

These comparisons are just ridiculous. When you watch Rodgers, you see his head snapping back and forth. But he isn't looking for receivers, he's looking at his protection, and THEN looking at the receivers. By then, it's too late.

It reminds me of Jeff Garcia in his last season in SF. He had happy feet so damn bad, he couldn't even set himself for a throw by the end of the year. Watch Rodgers feet. Constantly moving. Intuitively knows he has to take off at any given moment. Can't be successful like that.

[falco]

RG,

Do you think it is:

a) TT's failure to draft adequate talent for the line
b) poor OL coaching
c) the fact that they replaced 60% of the starting line this year and they need extra time to gel?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vinny Testaverde....great QB.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[falco]

Vinny Testaverde....great QB.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

didn't 19 scouts rank him at or above average?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vinny Testaverde....great QB.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

didn't 19 scouts rank him at or above average?

Average or slightly above is a far cry from Great QB.

3, repeat, 3 seasons with a 500 or above record.

[retailguy]

Vinny Testaverde....great QB.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

didn't 19 scouts rank him at or above average?

Doesn't matter, because Ty doesn't think that.

Seriously though, how many other NFL QB's were brought out of retirement at his age, and played as well as they did.

My point was, and is, Testeverde was a completely different QB with the Jets than he was with the Bucs. I credit the OL for that turnaround.

However, it's more fun to make fun of me, than to see that.

[Pugger]

RG,

Do you think it is:

a) TT's failure to draft adequate talent for the line
b) poor OL coaching
c) the fact that they replaced 60% of the starting line this year and they need extra time to gel?

Against Cincy our young RT was horrid. When our LT went down we didn't have anyone backing him up so we had several guys playing out of position. Not having decent backups isn't unprecedented. Just this season the NYG didn't have anyone backing up Kenny Phillips so when he went down the Gmen had to sign one of our rejects = Rouse! Of course your O line is probably more important than your secondary but the point I'm making is most teams don't have adequate backups for every position on their team. NE has only some undrafted rookie behind Brady so I'm sure those fans are praying nothing happens to him like we do with Rodgers! :shock:

[Partial]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/63965197.html

[retailguy]

RG,

Do you think it is:

a) TT's failure to draft adequate talent for the line
b) poor OL coaching
c) the fact that they replaced 60% of the starting line this year and they need extra time to gel?

Honestly, I've got no problem with the starting talent on the OL. Got a big problem with the lack of experience for the backups. I think that was an inexcusable failure.

I said a couple weeks ago, that I was unsure about the coaching. I really liked Campen as a player, but have no idea about the coaching. I've maintained that you can't get these guys to play well as a unit. If I'm right, you could easily blame that on coaching. But the big question for me, is WHY can't they play well as a unit? I just don't know the answer to that.

Clearly you have to be patient, when the entire right side of the line is new. Barbre played horribly that first week. He's been better since, but still not adequate in my opinion. When both Sitton and Barbre are new, you can expect issues. And you should.

But no plan for Cliffy if he gets hurt? That made things untenable this season.

I think, truthfully a big part of it, is lack of identity. We flirted with that stupid zone blocking scheme. We brought in a guy with two years of experience, and called him an expert. Then he left after one year. Then we relied on a guy with one season of experience (Philben), to continue the progress.

So, today, what are we? zone blocking? not really. Power running? no. WCO? no.... We brought in guys suited to run the ZBS, but now, we aren't really doing that, but we're looking for our RB to "one cut and go". That works, if there is a hole, but frequently, there isn't one.

Guess you could blame that on coaching too. But not sure that's Campen's fault. That's McCarthy, or Philbin. If I gotta pick, I pick Philbin at this point.

[falco]

Thanks RG. I agree with you.

Perhaps TT thought that the shifting of the line to DC-JS-SW was an acceptable backup at LT. I think he was proven wrong.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vinny Testaverde....great QB.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

didn't 19 scouts rank him at or above average?

Doesn't matter, because Ty doesn't think that.

Seriously though, how many other NFL QB's were brought out of retirement at his age, and played as well as they did.

My point was, and is, Testeverde was a completely different QB with the Jets than he was with the Bucs. I credit the OL for that turnaround.

However, it's more fun to make fun of me, than to see that.

Are you seriously lecturing me? As if you don't come on this board and regularly make fun of me? Get serious.

You said GREAT QB. You want to make your point, then make it...leave out the hyperbole.

Retirement: Well, since you haven't listed which year.

05: 1 td, 6 ints
03: 7 games, 7 tds, 1 int
02: 4 games started, 3 tds, 3 ints
01: 16 games started, 15 and 14
00: 16 GS, 21 and 25

Guess the facts don't really support you.

He was the same he always was...with ONE statistical anomaly with the Jets. His other GREAT year was 33 tds and 19 ints.

Testaverde was always the same, regardless of the line....bad decision making skills. And, their was always an excuse...including being color blind.

There was a reason that his talent sat behind kosar. Ten cent head.

[MOBB DEEP]

didnt read article but someone once said its VERY difficult to be a good qb on a bad team; and aaron MORE than did that last year so whatever

son's a beast and i now understand what whack as TT was thnkn since they saw him in practice and KNEW he was heir apparent. packers are blessed b/c thats RARE

question? is he better than mcnabb NOW?

[retailguy]

Thanks RG. I agree with you.

Perhaps TT thought that the shifting of the line to DC-JS-SW was an acceptable backup at LT. I think he was proven wrong.

Yeah, I think he did believe that. But when your coach says we aren't going to "position swap" anymore, and your backup LT doesn't take snaps there in the preseason, aren't you by default abandoning that?

I was absolutely blown away when we traded Moll. I didn't love the guy, but at least he had some game experience. For a backup, that's important. Besides he played significant snaps at LT in the preseason. I was convinced the guy was going to be the backup LT this year.

Yeah, we got something for him, which was good, but is there really a difference Mason and Smith? We likely stayed the same at safety and weakened ourselves at LT. Still scratching my head at that trade.

[Partial]

He's a better player than McNabb in the sense of availability. McNabb is always hurt.

McNabb is one of my favorite players and a premiere QB when healthy, though. When both are at 100%, for this year at least, I'd take McNabb. He's getting older though so I suspect Rodgers will pass him up soon.

He may be one of the most underrated players ever. That Eagles team had a lot of success early this decade. Never could close the deal, though.

[MOBB DEEP]

He may be one of the most underrated players ever. .

QFT

Insane how his accomplishments are always minimized; FIVE nfccg's, 4 straight

[falco]

i think mcnabb is overrated...the media just wants a black QB to do well...

:lol:

[Brandon494]

A very weak article but without a doubt there are still key questions about Rodgers. In PS, he looked great. To me this season he has looked pretty poor outside of a few key plays.

It would be a rare QB that would look good whilst the line looks bad. I just don't get why you do not understand this...

Rodgers is NOT the problem.

I understand what you're saying I just do not agree with it entirely.

If he is so aware of where the next hit is coming from as you claim, why is he not unloading the ball in this case or scrambling to get out of the pocket and unload the ball?

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Play calling can easily compensate for the line play, so MM shares some of the blame.

Dude seriously? Ben Big also have the #1 defense in the league and as bad as his O-line is it is not as bad as what Rodgers has had to play with this season. You just dont like Rodgers no matter what so its no point of even arguing with you.

[Brandon494]

He may be one of the most underrated players ever. .

QFT

Insane how his accomplishments are always minimized; FIVE nfccg's, 4 straight

+1, he does always choke in the big game though.

[Partial]

I like Rodgers a lot. That's a misnomer. No one is discussing the defensive team around him. Big Ben has had a ton of offensive success with a really bad line. Why? Well, a slew of reasons, but that is highly irrelevant. The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.

That said, BR is a lot bigger than Rodgers and much more of a playmaker. He breaks tackles that are easy sacks on Rodgers. That said, BR still takes a lot of sacks that he probably shoudn't, much like Rodgers, but the difference is BR is a huge dude who's body can handle it. Hopefully Rodger's body can handle it, too.

[Brandon494]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/63965197.html

I saw that this morning and it really could go either way to who is the better QB. Cutler has a stronger arm and more experience under his belt. I think AR is a better leader and rarely turns over the ball but still puts up the same numbers as Cutler. Both are also very good on their feet. I just like Cutler is a punk ass bitch which even the Bears beloved LB said.

[retailguy]

The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.



Partial, I said as a "youngster" and also talked about "developing" a young QB. I don't count Ben because he's not in his 1st couple of years. Give me a guy who played behind a line that stunk in his 1st two years and played well?

I've got two. Peyton Manning in his first year that he was 3-13, and Rodgers last year. Other than that, I've got nobody. At some point, a bad OL takes it's toll on the productivity of the QB, and that's where I believe we are now.

[Partial]

The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.



Partial, I said as a "youngster" and also talked about "developing" a young QB. I don't count Ben because he's not in his 1st couple of years. Give me a guy who played behind a line that stunk in his 1st two years and played well?

I've got two. Peyton Manning in his first year that he was 3-13, and Rodgers last year. Other than that, I've got nobody. At some point, a bad OL takes it's toll on the productivity of the QB, and that's where I believe we are now.

I guess the fundamental difference is I don't consider Rodgers a young QB. There is a huge difference between starting as a rookie (remember how lost Rodgers looked) compared to starting in your 4th year. You're not a rookie, then, and you're not a first year player. Half of succeeding in the NFL is learning how to take care of your body and adjusting to the schedule. He had three years to learn how to do that.

[retailguy]

The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.



Partial, I said as a "youngster" and also talked about "developing" a young QB. I don't count Ben because he's not in his 1st couple of years. Give me a guy who played behind a line that stunk in his 1st two years and played well?

I've got two. Peyton Manning in his first year that he was 3-13, and Rodgers last year. Other than that, I've got nobody. At some point, a bad OL takes it's toll on the productivity of the QB, and that's where I believe we are now.

I guess the fundamental difference is I don't consider Rodgers a young QB. There is a huge difference between starting as a rookie (remember how lost Rodgers looked) compared to starting in your 4th year. You're not a rookie, then, and you're not a first year player. Half of succeeding in the NFL is learning how to take care of your body and adjusting to the schedule. He had three years to learn how to do that.

How do you learn about trusting or not trusting your protection when you are sitting on the bench? How do you simulate what you will do and how you will react when you are sitting on the bench?

In some ways he's not a young QB, and in some ways he is. There is no substitute for game experience for some things. This is one of those things, I think.

Your expectations on Rodgers are SKY HIGH. You expect more out of him than any other QB in the league. You catch a lot of flak for your inability to see this. And I think it's justified.

Have you watched some of these other QB's? Seen Jake Delhomme lately? How about Trent Edwards? Maybe Matt Hasselbeck? What do you think about David Garrard? Those guys are having protection issues this season also. Some with substantially more experience than Rodgers. None are playing particularly well. Hass has been hurt, the rest have struggled, mightily. There is a big difference in Carson Palmer when he gets protection and when he doesn't. Same for Eli Manning.

[rbaloha1]

After watching #4 its apparent #12 is still in the developing stage. Needs to improve reading coverage quicker and anticipating receiver routes.

Still #12 is on the verge of being a solid consistent pro bowler.

[bobblehead]

RG,

Do you think it is:

a) TT's failure to draft adequate talent for the line
b) poor OL coaching
c) the fact that they replaced 60% of the starting line this year and they need extra time to gel?

I'm going with poor coaching. No way guys can whiff the way they are if the coaching were good. Even bad OL don't whiff like I see our guys whiff. Its Babre about half the time, but I have seen Clifton, College and Spitz whiff on a grand scale as well. I still think its lack of aggressive practice. We go through the motions in practice (for positioning and such) and therefore we do the same in games. Its human nature, you play the way you practice.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Big Ben got lots of defensive help when he won the SB.

2005 - #3 in ppg and #4 ypg in defense in the NFL
2008 - #1 in ppg and #1 ypg in defense in the NFL

Let's not pretend he did it all himself.

[bobblehead]

But no plan for Cliffy if he gets hurt? That made things untenable this season.


Much like QB's, there are only about 20 NFL caliber LT's in the NFL (sounds funny, I know). NO team has two of them. 12 teams at any given time are searching for a good one. ANY team that loses its LT is going to suffer. If they have enough other talent they can compensate for it....if they have Allen Babre at the other tackle they are screwed.

[bobblehead]

He may be one of the most underrated players ever. .

QFT

Insane how his accomplishments are always minimized; FIVE nfccg's, 4 straight

The knock is going to be the same as you guys knock ARod for. Same as you want to support favre for. Sure, they made it to five nfccg's, but he only won 1...then lost the superbowl. I'm not saying its fair, its a team game, but its the reason he is "underrated" in your opinion. Add to this the fact that he doesn't put up great numbers either and you have a guy ignored by the media.

[bobblehead]

I like Rodgers a lot. That's a misnomer. No one is discussing the defensive team around him. Big Ben has had a ton of offensive success with a really bad line. Why? Well, a slew of reasons, but that is highly irrelevant. The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.

That said, BR is a lot bigger than Rodgers and much more of a playmaker. He breaks tackles that are easy sacks on Rodgers. That said, BR still takes a lot of sacks that he probably shoudn't, much like Rodgers, but the difference is BR is a huge dude who's body can handle it. Hopefully Rodger's body can handle it, too.

I disagree. I have seen both up close in person. AR is just as strong...shorter, but more athletic as well. Ben does have a gift in his balance and manages to keep it, but I actually equate him as possibly the closest comparison to Rodgers. Both guys are deceptively hard to take down...both take too many sacks because of it. Rodgers throws a better long ball and punishes teams that fail to bring him down that way, while Ben is better at spotting the shorter routes to unload it to.

Right now Ben is better AND has a better line. Neither line is GOOD. Bens is bad, ours is terrible. I happen to think ARod is going to be a big time winner in this league. I'd like to see him take the dump off pattern more and get a little more time in the pocket...or have a pocket to step up into.

Pitt also calls way more screens and runs than we do.

[denverYooper]

I think, truthfully a big part of it, is lack of identity. We flirted with that stupid zone blocking scheme. We brought in a guy with two years of experience, and called him an expert. Then he left after one year. Then we relied on a guy with one season of experience (Philben), to continue the progress.

So, today, what are we? zone blocking? not really. Power running? no. WCO? no.... We brought in guys suited to run the ZBS, but now, we aren't really doing that, but we're looking for our RB to "one cut and go". That works, if there is a hole, but frequently, there isn't one.

Guess you could blame that on coaching too. But not sure that's Campen's fault. That's McCarthy, or Philbin. If I gotta pick, I pick Philbin at this point.

This is an excellent point RG, and something I've been mulling over wrt our line lately. We do seem to be lacking an identity on offense. And it's going to be interesting to see what happens with Tausch (hopefully) coming back. Barbre is a better run blocker, you can argue that his pass blocking is improving and it may be that he becomes very good at it. Tausch pre-injury was a better pass blocker, although who knows but the coaches after 10 months.

We're running alright so far. 4.2 YPA, tied with Minny and NYG. Not a bad spot to be in, really. But we don't run nearly as much as either of those teams for some reason. Probably because we do have a dangerous passing game with a lot of weapons. But a line that has been shaky so far in pass pro.

So, *if* Tausch comes back and is better in pass pro, do we go with him and say "eff it, we're passing" and hope he and Cliffy hold up? Or do we keep Barbre in, hope he continues to improve in pass pro and maybe run more often?

[Partial]

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Big Ben got lots of defensive help when he won the SB.

2005 - #3 in ppg and #4 ypg in defense in the NFL
2008 - #1 in ppg and #1 ypg in defense in the NFL

Let's not pretend he did it all himself.

Absolutely. RG alluded nobody can win with a bad line. I said BR could. That's all.

[denverYooper]

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Big Ben got lots of defensive help when he won the SB.

2005 - #3 in ppg and #4 ypg in defense in the NFL
2008 - #1 in ppg and #1 ypg in defense in the NFL

Let's not pretend he did it all himself.

Big Ben's rating was 22.6 in the 2005 SB. 9/21 123 yards, 2 INT.

[pbmax]

A very weak article but without a doubt there are still key questions about Rodgers. In PS, he looked great. To me this season he has looked pretty poor outside of a few key plays.

It would be a rare QB that would look good whilst the line looks bad. I just don't get why you do not understand this...

Rodgers is NOT the problem.
I understand what you're saying I just do not agree with it entirely.
If he is so aware of where the next hit is coming from as you claim, why is he not unloading the ball in this case or scrambling to get out of the pocket and unload the ball?
Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.
Play calling can easily compensate for the line play, so MM shares some of the blame.
Roethlisberger is 6' 5" and 30 pounds heavier than Rodgers. He often, despite initial good protection, holds the ball past 5 seconds in the pocket, taking tremendous hits and turning the ball over quite frequently. He has been blasted for it repeatedly. His protection problems are often of his own making. And he has missed gametime because of this style.

The Steelers line has previously been worse than league average run blocking. That is their biggest weakness, they are better at pass protection. This would be the reverse of the Packers O line so far this season.

His defense frequently keeps the offense in the game, and Roethlisberger has had many fantastic drives at the end of games. But either O line mixture could be a recipe for disaster, yet Roethlisberger benefits from the best aspect of his line, unlike Rodgers.

As for coaching overcoming bad line play, that only goes so far. A team would need to be otherworldly to avoid being forced into a one dimensional attack and have the weakness exposed. Maybe the 07 Patiots or the 99 Rams. That said, McCarthy is treating the line now like he treated his defense last season. he keeps relying on it to pass protect and expecting it to respond.

The D rarely responded last year. Hopefully, the return of Clifton will let this unit respond. Otherwise, we will all get to watch a team run ineffectively early hoping to wear the defense down late.