Dougherty: "Packers need free agent help"

[Badgerinmaine]

Interesting column this morning from Pete Dougherty on Ted Thompson and his reluctance to sign free agents:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091011/PKR07/91011036/1058/PKR01

[red]

good article

[denverYooper]

Interesting column this morning from Pete Dougherty on Ted Thompson and his reluctance to sign free agents:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091011/PKR07/91011036/1058/PKR01

At best, this is a pretty lazy piece:
a.) Take obvious team deficiency -- T here.
b.) Take cliched argument, rehash it
c.) Give 25 bucks to your "scouts" down at the pub for some quotes
d.) Insert smarmy statements like "sounds like blah-blah-blah don't you think?"

Not only that, but they mention free agent pickups and just act like those don't actually count because they're not a given position. Ted Thompson sucks because he didn't pick up a FA RT who is now doing shiftwork on another team. Hey, maybe they actually thought Tausch might come back after rehab!

There's legitimate discussion to be had about the risk/reward ratio of our LEFT tackle issues but it almost seems like they read Fritz's post the other day on team improvement mad libs and decided to use it for a template.

[rbaloha1]

Still like TT's approach. However with cap space and the obvious weaknesses, TT may have to increase fa signings.

[wist43]

BLASPHEMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What we need are more draft pics :D

[MJZiggy]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

[sharpe1027]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

You are pretty new to this game. Signed free agents don't factor into the equation, unless they suck. When evaluating a GM you don't like, you can only consider free agents that were not signed or those that were and sucked.

Discount Chillar's import, right after you complain that he isn't playing more. Ignore Woodson. Pickett who? Resigned players that never hit the open market because of a healthy cap situation? Nice, but not important. Trading for Grant? A lucky hit and besides Grant isn't playing well. Who cares that it was for a sixth round pick and helped get them to the NFC championship game?

Should've signed more FAs...riiight.

The problem isn't the lack of FA's. The problem is crappy play by the O-line in general, compounded by an injury to the 2nd most important position on the team. But, a lack of FA siginings is just easier to shout about when you are waving you pitchforks and torches. :wink:

[retailguy]

BLASPHEMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What we need are more draft pics :D

you can never have enough guys with "potential" :D

[retailguy]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

You are pretty new to this game. Signed free agents don't factor into the equation, unless they suck. When evaluating a GM you don't like, you can only consider free agents that were not signed or those that were and sucked.

Discount Chillar's import, right after you complain that he isn't playing more. Ignore Woodson. Pickett who? Resigned players that never hit the open market because of a healthy cap situation? Nice, but not important. Trading for Grant? A lucky hit and besides Grant isn't playing well. Who cares that it was for a sixth round pick and helped get them to the NFC championship game?

Should've signed more FAs...riiight.

The problem isn't the lack of FA's. The problem is crappy play by the O-line in general, compounded by an injury to the 2nd most important position on the team. But, a lack of FA siginings is just easier to shout about when you are waving you pitchforks and torches. :wink:

it was tongue in cheek humor...

[sharpe1027]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

You are pretty new to this game. Signed free agents don't factor into the equation, unless they suck. When evaluating a GM you don't like, you can only consider free agents that were not signed or those that were and sucked.

Discount Chillar's import, right after you complain that he isn't playing more. Ignore Woodson. Pickett who? Resigned players that never hit the open market because of a healthy cap situation? Nice, but not important. Trading for Grant? A lucky hit and besides Grant isn't playing well. Who cares that it was for a sixth round pick and helped get them to the NFC championship game?

Should've signed more FAs...riiight.

The problem isn't the lack of FA's. The problem is crappy play by the O-line in general, compounded by an injury to the 2nd most important position on the team. But, a lack of FA siginings is just easier to shout about when you are waving you pitchforks and torches. :wink:

it was tongue in cheek humor...

Yes it was...

[Fritz]

Interesting column this morning from Pete Dougherty on Ted Thompson and his reluctance to sign free agents:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091011/PKR07/91011036/1058/PKR01

At best, this is a pretty lazy piece:
a.) Take obvious team deficiency -- T here.
b.) Take cliched argument, rehash it
c.) Give 25 bucks to your "scouts" down at the pub for some quotes
d.) Insert smarmy statements like "sounds like blah-blah-blah don't you think?"

Not only that, but they mention free agent pickups and just act like those don't actually count because they're not a given position. Ted Thompson sucks because he didn't pick up a FART who is now doing shitwork on another team. Hey, maybe they actually thought Tausch might come back after rehab!

There's legitimate discussion to be had about the risk/reward ratio of our LEFT tackle issues but it almost seems like they read Fritz's post the other day on team improvement mad libs and decided to use it for a template.

So where's my twenty-five bucks?

PS - Look how I edited your post (in italics). Fun!

[bobblehead]

The only reason we would need more FA's than we have is that TT didn't hit/develope his picks. We have run several safetys and linemen through that we drafted, not like we didn't try to upgrade the positions. We just aren't hitting on enough picks atm. NOW, someone tell me how many 1sts and 2nds we have spent on OL and safety (our main 2 weaknesses). I'll help by stating my memory (which might be wrong). College and Collins. And they both hit. Problem is we had too many holes/aging vets when TT took over.

Thats not excusing him mind you, 5 years is enough time for a good GM to fill all voids. TT needs to use whatever method necessary to shore up the safeties and tackles (injuries don't help him, but they happen).

Unfortunately I see history repeating...about the time he shores up those spots we are going to have 2 aging CB's who's game is slipping and only one young replacement (who is currently the nickel, thus creating another hole).

[Fritz]

Tough times in Packerland at the moment.

A victory against Detroit won't quell much of the uneasiness, but it would be a start.

[Waldo]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.

Good teams find a way to win. The hide their weaknesses and accent their strengths, and get it done. GB '07 to GB '08, Tn '08 to Tn '09. Largely the same team in both cases. Both had a spark in their 13-3 year that just isn't there the next year.

You can go around digging under rocks, looking for people to fire, coaches that can make that spark consistently are very rare (Vince L. for example), the FO can throw all the talent in the world together, that doesn't mean that spark is created. Some players help to create it, but really it is created by a collection of the locker room and team.

The 13-3 year there were many key players remaining from the '03-04 seasons, when we get red hot for long stretches. Those guys are fading fast, but now we have a young team that was around for the 13-3 year. They have to find it for themselves. They have to figure out, as a team, how to win. Once they do, this will be one very good team, for a long time.

[Fritz]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.

Good teams find a way to win. The hide their weaknesses and accent their strengths, and get it done. GB '07 to GB '08, Tn '08 to Tn '09. Largely the same team in both cases. Both had a spark in their 13-3 year that just isn't there the next year.

You can go around digging under rocks, looking for people to fire, coaches that can make that spark consistently are very rare (Vince L. for example), the FO can throw all the talent in the world together, that doesn't mean that spark is created. Some players help to create it, but really it is created by a collection of the locker room and team.

The 13-3 year there were many key players remaining from the '03-04 seasons, when we get red hot for long stretches. Those guys are fading fast, but now we have a young team that was around for the 13-3 year. They have to find it for themselves. They have to figure out, as a team, how to win. Once they do, this will be one very good team, for a long time.

Kinda like the way I comb my hair over?

[ThunderDan]

It is so easy to be an armchair GM.

At the end of the preseason were any of the reports bagging on the Packers lineup? Wasn't all the talk was how we were going to the palyoffs?

I'd be a lot more impressed if he was saying we would struggle to make the playoffs and could follow it up with this piece.

How many people will remember this article if the Packers finish 10-6 and make the playoffs? Will the reporter by held accountable by his employer and get fired or take a paycut? Sadly, the answer is no. Papers only care about circulation these days and don't care what they have to fill the paper to do so.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It is so easy to be an armchair GM.

At the end of the preseason were any of the reports bagging on the Packers lineup? Wasn't all the talk was how we were going to the palyoffs?

I'd be a lot more impressed if he was saying we would struggle to make the playoffs and could follow it up with this piece.

How many people will remember this article if the Packers finish 10-6 and make the playoffs? Will the reporter by held accountable by his employer and get fired or take a paycut? Sadly, the answer is no. Papers only care about circulation these days and don't care what they have to fill the paper to do so.

Very nice assessment.

[Scott Campbell]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.


As in X = Julius Peppers.

How many of those threads did we see this summer?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.


As in X = Julius Peppers.

How many of those threads did we see this summer?

And how many of those people would give credit to TT as making the right move by not pulling the trigger..based on how peppers is playing this year.

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

[sharpe1027]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.


As in X = Julius Peppers.

How many of those threads did we see this summer?

And how many of those people would give credit to TT as making the right move by not pulling the trigger..based on how peppers is playing this year.

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

BS, whatever position ends up being a weakness, free agency would have fixed it. It is pretty much game-set-match in the argument department, and you are being unreasonable for even trying to debate the issue.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.


As in X = Julius Peppers.

How many of those threads did we see this summer?

And how many of those people would give credit to TT as making the right move by not pulling the trigger..based on how peppers is playing this year.

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

BS, whatever position ends up being a weakness, free agency would have fixed it. It is pretty much game-set-match in the argument department, and you are being unreasonable for even trying to debate the issue.

Which is greater, free agency or chuck norris?

[sharpe1027]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.


As in X = Julius Peppers.

How many of those threads did we see this summer?

And how many of those people would give credit to TT as making the right move by not pulling the trigger..based on how peppers is playing this year.

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

BS, whatever position ends up being a weakness, free agency would have fixed it. It is pretty much game-set-match in the argument department, and you are being unreasonable for even trying to debate the issue.

Which is greater, free agency or chuck norris?

Chuck norris is a free agent.

[Bretsky]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

NO; the master drafted him

[Bretsky]

ingore fa; how can you argue that and not be in favor of our reclycling project of developmental superstars on the bottom portion of our roster

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.


As in X = Julius Peppers.

How many of those threads did we see this summer?

And how many of those people would give credit to TT as making the right move by not pulling the trigger..based on how peppers is playing this year.

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

BS, whatever position ends up being a weakness, free agency would have fixed it. It is pretty much game-set-match in the argument department, and you are being unreasonable for even trying to debate the issue.

Which is greater, free agency or chuck norris?



Chuck norris is a free agent.

Teams don't sign Chuck Norris, Chuck Norris signs them.

[MJZiggy]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

NO; the master drafted him

So? If he'd have been signed by someone else, you'd have been all over TT's ass.

[Bretsky]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

NO; the master drafted him

So? If he'd have been signed by someone else, you'd have been all over TT's ass.


Just another example of TT letting Wolf's players go then :lol: :wink:

[mmmdk]

Great article.

[mmmdk]

You built through draft, free agency & trades even.

Screw free agency & screw Reggie White, Sean Jones, Don Beebe, Keith Jackson, Frank Winters, Santana Dotson, Desmond Howard, Andre Rison and even Mike Prior; all HUGE for Packers in SB seasons. (Did I miss some?)



Chuck :P

Ryan Pickett :lol: Ok, but really...

Chillar :lol: (see Pickett)

Al Harris came in trade as did Purple Heart Bert - back in the day.

The rest of Packers current roster are mostly drafted by TT & Wolf and even some street guys.

So screw free agency :wink:

[sharpe1027]

Teams don't sign Chuck Norris, Chuck Norris signs them.

Chuck Norris will not sign until the uncapped year when he can get properly compensated, somewhere in the neighborhood of a few billion dollars.

[retailguy]

Wasn't Tausch a free agent?

NO; the master drafted him

So? If he'd have been signed by someone else, you'd have been all over TT's ass.


Just another example of TT letting Wolf's players go then :lol: :wink:

Will you just come over to the dark side and be done with it? Sidious is losing patience.

[woodbuck27]

Every team has holes and problems.

There is no perfect team. We need X to win is not the answer.

Good teams find a way to win. The hide their weaknesses and accent their strengths, and get it done. GB '07 to GB '08, Tn '08 to Tn '09. Largely the same team in both cases. Both had a spark in their 13-3 year that just isn't there the next year.

You can go around digging under rocks, looking for people to fire, coaches that can make that spark consistently are very rare (Vince L. for example), the FO can throw all the talent in the world together, that doesn't mean that spark is created. Some players help to create it, but really it is created by a collection of the locker room and team.

The 13-3 year there were many key players remaining from the '03-04 seasons, when we get red hot for long stretches. Those guys are fading fast, but now we have a young team that was around for the 13-3 year. They have to find it for themselves. They have to figure out, as a team, how to win. Once they do, this will be one very good team, for a long time.

The ghost of Lombardi and to a factor yes.

[gex]

You built through draft, free agency & trades even.

Screw free agency & screw Reggie White, Sean Jones, Don Beebe, Keith Jackson, Frank Winters, Santana Dotson, Desmond Howard, Andre Rison and even Mike Prior; all HUGE for Packers in SB seasons. (Did I miss some?)



Chuck :P

Ryan Pickett :lol: Ok, but really...

Chillar :lol: (see Pickett)

Al Harris came in trade as did Purple Heart Bert - back in the day.

The rest of Packers current roster are mostly drafted by TT & Wolf and even some street guys.

So screw free agency :wink:


:tup:

[ThunderDan]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

[retailguy]

Well, what I've said about free agency has been so twisted around the axle, I should probably just keep quiet, but let me try again to explain my views.

You are equating undrafted free agents with free agency that begins in March of each year. That isn't what folks are talking about, and it certainly isn't what I'm talking about.

Undrafted free agents can lead to finding a diamond in the rough occasionally. That's a good thing.

What I'm talking about is failing to bring in an experienced free agent to "plug a hole" because it is either unlikely we'll find a draft pick capable of doing that in the short term, or, we have current talent that is subpar to the rest of the league and need a temporary boost at a certain position.

I recognize that sounds easier to do than it actually is, however, I don't see a recognition that it is even a priority. That's what frustrates me.

As I type this post, specifically what is going through my head are 3 positions, LT this past season, DL last season after the Williams trade and the various injury and legal concerns, and FB prior to the 13-3 2007 season.

Each year, it was apparent that there were stability concerns, and most of these issues were early enough that things could have been done if it had been a priority.

So, in the end, please don't cloud the issue further by posting a list of largely undrafted rookie free agents under the guise of "just so we get the facts straight".... It does no such thing.

I personally believe that Ted does a wonderful job of bringing in rookies with "potential". I also personally believe that Ted does an awful job of plugging holes until that potential can be realized.

[ThunderDan]

If I count right that's 8/22 starters or 35% and 10/25 if you count special teamers or 40%.

[sharpe1027]

Same shit every year. Hindsight after the season starts: "Hey we have a weakness in area X, free agency would have fixed it." Yeah, so would have better drafting, better play development or just better luck.

Of course, as soon as big money is spent on a FA, everyone complains that the guy wasn't worth it.

I'm not saying that free agency is bad, I'm just saying that it isn't the problem. The problem is the current players, however they were acquired.

[retailguy]

Same shit every year. Hindsight after the season starts: "Hey we have a weakness in area X, free agency would have fixed it." Yeah, so would have better drafting, better play development or just better luck.

Of course, as soon as big money is spent on a FA, everyone complains that the guy wasn't worth it.

I'm not saying that free agency is bad, I'm just saying that it isn't the problem. The problem is the current players, however they were acquired.

This is a cop out and you know it.

There was no emphasis on acquiring anyone WHEN it happened. I was talking about it then. Go back and read it. Pull up threads from then.

There is nothing wrong with our current players (well most of them anyhow). Some JUST AREN'T READY.

[sharpe1027]

This is a cop out and you know it.

There was no emphasis on acquiring anyone WHEN it happened. I was talking about it then. Go back and read it. Pull up threads from then.

There is nothing wrong with our current players (well most of them anyhow). Some JUST AREN'T READY.

Yeah, you and half the people out there have been whining about lack of free agents since the media began pushing that storyline several years a ago. I simply don't see it. The Packers have been successful in free agency and trades. They've found a number of starters and have avoided any huge busts. Hell, the best guy on the team was a free agent pickup.

IMHO, free agency is not the problem/solution. It is just a convenient cop out for people to bitch about.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Teams don't sign Chuck Norris, Chuck Norris signs them.

Chuck Norris will not sign until the uncapped year when he can get properly compensated, somewhere in the neighborhood of a few billion dollars.

Chuck Norris doesn't need money. He just takes what he wants.

[mmmdk]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb? :evil:

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Are you deliberately pretending free agency when Wolf was the GM is the same as it is today?

[ThunderDan]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb? :evil:

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't. :cry:

[sharpe1027]

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't. :cry:

According to some, Chillar is our best LBer. Grant is our best RB.

The problem is not Free Agency, the problem is crappy O-line play. To me, the clincher is that the same argument could be made for any team anytime they have trouble at a position. "Hey position X sucks, we should have gotten a player in free agency." Sure, or just drafted better or developed better or avoided injuries or had a better scheme, ect.

[Bretsky]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.


This lends credibility to my reclycling of the scrap heap theory

[Bretsky]

This is a cop out and you know it.

There was no emphasis on acquiring anyone WHEN it happened. I was talking about it then. Go back and read it. Pull up threads from then.

There is nothing wrong with our current players (well most of them anyhow). Some JUST AREN'T READY.

Yeah, you and half the people out there have been whining about lack of free agents since the media began pushing that storyline several years a ago. I simply don't see it. The Packers have been successful in free agency and trades. They've found a number of starters and have avoided any huge busts. Hell, the best guy on the team was a free agent pickup.

IMHO, free agency is not the problem/solution. It is just a convenient cop out for people to bitch about.


Actually a few of us have been on board with what RG points out consistently; we were pummeled with the TT is great concept and slammed after the 13-3 season. For some time we were laid back and made very subtle comments. Now they are getting stronger.

I agree with RG; your argument is a cop out.

TT thought this team sucked in year one and went out and landed some solid calibur free agents. Kudos for him to year one. After that he's fallen short consistently.

[Bretsky]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb? :evil:

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't. :cry:

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

[mmmdk]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb? :evil:

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't. :cry:

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

2003 Draft, Cullen Jenkins: Originally signed with the Packers as a non-drafted free agent on May 2

Basically a rookie (NFL doesn't have 20 draft rounds anymore) but he's still a good player when healthy. When signed he was just that; a rookie and not Sean Jones or whomever.

[ThunderDan]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb? :evil:

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't. :cry:

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

So now TT has to get rid of the few good players that were left by Sherman.

[ThunderDan]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb? :evil:

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't. :cry:

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

2003 Draft, Cullen Jenkins: Originally signed with the Packers as a non-drafted free agent on May 2

Basically a rookie (NFL doesn't have 20 draft rounds anymore) but he's still a good player when healthy. When signed he was just that; a rookie and not Sean Jones or whomever.

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

[Administrator]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

[ThunderDan]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?

[Rastak]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?


Was Hunt a FA?

[pbmax]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?


Was Hunt a FA?
They resigned Cledtius as a FA and let Holliday go. Choose the position over the players.

[Bretsky]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?


Was Hunt a FA?

No

[Bretsky]

Free Agency can work wonderfully (see Saints/Vikings) or it can handicap a team when you choose the wrong players (see Redskins).

We pay our GM to make these calls and choose the right guys.

I think sometimes a GM who sees a team with gaping holes might try to shoot for the impace players, and a GM who feels there are minimal holes to fill will look for developmental free agents or scrap heap not many teams want.

TT went with the first strategy a few years back and hit home runs with Woodsen and Pickett.
Chillar has been ok, but for the most part he's been all about strategy B since.

He's fallen short since his big bang.

[sharpe1027]

Actually a few of us have been on board with what RG points out consistently; we were pummeled with the TT is great concept and slammed after the 13-3 season. For some time we were laid back and made very subtle comments. Now they are getting stronger.

I agree with RG; your argument is a cop out.

TT thought this team sucked in year one and went out and landed some solid calibur free agents. Kudos for him to year one. After that he's fallen short consistently.

Cop out with respect to what? What truth am I trying to avoid?

As I originally said the problem isn't free agency. Problem number one is the poor O-line play.

I disagree that there is that important of a difference between free agency and any other way to get players. It doesn't matter how you get the players, but the grass is always greener. Free agency is hyped up by the media, probably because it creates drama and stories in the off-season.

If TT has truly fallen short, it isn't only in free agency. Free agency is just an extension of evaluation of players currently on the roster, including those recently drafted players.

I guess I just get sick of hearing that the problem is free agency, that's just one of the biggest cop outs there is out there. If the solution was that easy, every team would win the SB every year. :P

[Administrator]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?

Doesn't your little discussion prove that free agency works sometimes, but not all the time? Wasn't that known before you started the discussion?

Really, what are you trying to prove? I read from this thread that several people would've liked to see some mid tier free agents competing for positions on this team. What would be so bad about that?I don't see anyone at all whining that the packers should have signed Albert Haynesworth...

I just don't understand what you're trying to prove by bringing up Sherman. Shouldn't you be arguing instead that we should stand pat and do nothing? Perhaps that would lead to the discussion of what you think should be done about the OL... or maybe you think it's fine?

Personally, I think Sherman was an ass, but tried to field a good team. Ted Thompson does things differently, for the most part better, but there are still issues. My solutions probably don't work for you, but yours don't work for me at all.

[The Leaper]

I don't think Thompson is scared of free agency. I just think he has assembled an OL scout staff that is mediocre. To this point, he has yet to really have a success in terms of "his guys" on the OL. Spitz is probably the closest thing to a success he has, and I would say that Spitz is no better than an adequate NFL center.

Considering the OL is more important to the offense than any skill position other than QB, and that spells trouble. Thompson has great instincts on defense when it comes to talent...he also seems to be a solid judge of receiving talent. He's been very marginal in terms of the running game...both RB and OL acquisitions have been mediocre to poor. Ryan Grant was the Giants choice...and any of their RBs at the time would've been better than we had.

[Partial]

Equally as important as signing the right external free agents is signing the right internal guys. Letting Holliday go and keeping Hunt was a horrible move.

[ThunderDan]

I just don't understand what you're trying to prove by bringing up Sherman. Shouldn't you be arguing instead that we should stand pat and do nothing? Perhaps that would lead to the discussion of what you think should be done about the OL... or maybe you think it's fine?



So he gets to bring up how great Wolf's signings are and I can't show how crappy Shermans were?

I pointed out that Woodson has been a stud for GB but that wasn't enough; you have to bring a Reggie White over to be a success in FA.

You know why no one is crying for Albert? Because he is injuried and not performing. If he had 4 sacks already it would just be a matter of time before the "TT doesn't have the balls to sign a premuim FA" threads would start.

Also, when did I say the Packers shouldn't use FA to help the team? I never have and never will. But its a hell of a lot easier to scream that the barn is on fire than to point out actual free agents that we should have and could have brought in.

At the end of the preseason the Packers were the national media's darling. There was talk of deep playoff runs and high rankings in power ratings. Where were all the people than complaining that we needed a FA LT to shore up the line or that our safety issues would once again hurt the D?

It is really, really easy to bitch 5 weeks into the season when things haven't gone as easy as planned. Right now our two losses are against a 5-0 team at their place and a 4-1 team that beat Baltimore at home.

I am not ready to throw in the towel on the 2009 season.

[mmmdk]

I just don't understand what you're trying to prove by bringing up Sherman. Shouldn't you be arguing instead that we should stand pat and do nothing? Perhaps that would lead to the discussion of what you think should be done about the OL... or maybe you think it's fine?



So he gets to bring up how great Wolf's signings are and I can't show how crappy Shermans were?

I pointed out that Woodson has been a stud for GB but that wasn't enough; you have to bring a Reggie White over to be a success in FA.

You know why no one is crying for Albert? Because he is injuried and not performing. If he had 4 sacks already it would just be a matter of time before the "TT doesn't have the balls to sign a premuim FA" threads would start.

Also, when did I say the Packers shouldn't use FA to help the team? I never have and never will. But its a hell of a lot easier to scream that the barn is on fire than to point out actual free agents that we should have and could have brought in.

At the end of the preseason the Packers were the national media's darling. There was talk of deep playoff runs and high rankings in power ratings. Where were all the people than complaining that we needed a FA LT to shore up the line or that our safety issues would once again hurt the D?

It is really, really easy to bitch 5 weeks into the season when things haven't gone as easy as planned. Right now our two losses are against a 5-0 team at their place and a 4-1 team that beat Baltimore at home.

I am not ready to throw in the towel on the 2009 season.

Good Thunder, Dan :tup:

I actually have a Packer towel - not throwing it away. :P

[Waldo]

I think that TT's approach to FA is very simple and effective, but it doesn't lead to big yields.

He slow plays them all. Opens the door and invites players that he's chosen to come to the Packers, and waits. Any guys that want to become Packers will do so. Guys that don't, or guys chasing around dollar signs, won't.

It seems to make the bust rate fairly low, and the guys seem to really love playing for the team. But, you are going to miss out on a lot of guys this way (like the great C. Canty for example).

The thing to keep in mind, FA has changed so much. Back in the 90's a good % of players tested FA, and many played for several teams. As we've reached the 00's, teams are getting better at resigning their guys, players are seeing the value in sticking with a team. Teams are getting much better at short and long term cap management. It has been a long time since the last true "cap hell" team dump, which used to be fairly frequent occurances. In other words, the yearly crop is only a fraction of what it once was.