Steven Jackson Trade?

[sheepshead]

Mike Florio says the Packers should trade for Steven Jackson right now. I guess I am not opposed to that.

Got this off of twitter

Anyone think TT would make a deal like this?

Joe Thomas?

[Bossman641]

Are the Rams even shopping him?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Trade them the rights to Brett Favre.

[denverYooper]

I saw that on SportingNews, also.

It sure would take some stress of A-Rod & the O-Line (sounds like a Doo Wop outfit).

I would shit my pants if it actually happened.

[rbaloha1]

Wow -- maybe RG and picks.

[Zool]

I've never been a big Steven Jackson guy. He really only had 1 outstanding year. Maybe its because the Rams O-line sucks, but isn't he going to have the same problem here?

[Partial]

I would trade a one today because with SJ it's likely we'll be picking towards the bottom of one anyway.

[ThunderDan]

I would trade a one today because with SJ it's likely we'll be picking towards the bottom of one anyway.

So getting SJ will solve all of our O-Line issues and safety issues?

You are saying that by having a bottom 1 pick that we are making the playoffs with SJ on the roster. Correct?

[Waldo]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

[ThunderDan]

If we traded for SJ and he broke the single season record would it count if he played in 17 games? Just a thought.

[3irty1]

If we traded for SJ and he broke the single season record would it count if he played in 17 games? Just a thought.

Yeah I suppose it would.

[Scott Campbell]

My first reaction was that he's too old. But he's only 26 and 8 months younger than Grant. If true I like it.

[SkinBasket]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

I kind of think Jackson isn't that good, but I would make that trade just in the name of changing things up. We're not so good at drafting in the 2nd round anyway.

[Scott Campbell]

My second reaction is that Jackson's value on my fantasy team would skyrocket.

[Cheesehead Craig]

My second reaction is that Jackson's value on my fantasy team would skyrocket.
And my value for Grant would plummet.

[Bossman641]

I think this whole rumor is BS but I would definitely target Jackson if it's a possibility at all. He is one of those guys who makes the OL look better, not to much mention he is a pretty good receiver as well.

[red]

jackson adds one major thing the grant doesn't

he catches the ball

i like it, he's a big boy who would run good in the cold weather


i don't know if TT has it in him though

[bobblehead]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

I'm not a big fan of grant, so it should be no big surprise that I would be thrilled with this scenario. A second rounder to replace a bad starter with a true horse. Not like Grant would have much use if we got jackson anyway, he is a first down only type of a back as well.

A second rounder next year could bust as well as hit, SJ is an NFL player for sure. Rams only do this if they are trying to rebuild or something anyway...how long and for how much is SJ under contract at this point.

[Freak Out]

Jackson for RG and a 2nd? If the Rams are willing to bite you have to do it. Fuck it....throw in Brohm and keep the 2nd. :)

[retailguy]

Wow -- maybe RG and picks.

:shock: Don't trade me man! I haven't been THAT bad, have I?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Jackson signed a 6 yr 44.805M before the 2008 season, so he's got plenty of contract left at a not overly burdensome price.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I've never been a big Steven Jackson guy. He really only had 1 outstanding year. Maybe its because the Rams O-line sucks, but isn't he going to have the same problem here?

ty likes jackson, but your point is spot on.

ty posted his #s before. Shitty line or not....and Ty is inclined to believe the Rams line is not as bad this year and equal to ours previously....he has posted 1000 yards, cept for his breakout year.

He can catch though.

[Scott Campbell]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.


I just read the blog and it's Jackson for Grant, a 2010 2 and a conditional 2011 pick (2nd or 3rd) based on performance. That's quite a bit steeper than I thought.

[sheepshead]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.


I just read the blog and it's Jackson for Grant, a 2010 2 and a conditional 2011 pick (2nd or 3rd) based on performance. That's quite a bit steeper than I thought.

Pull that trigger TT. If the conditions are high enough (totals yds, carries etc) I'm in.

[Guiness]

Wow -- maybe RG and picks.

:shock: Don't trade me man! I haven't been THAT bad, have I?

You'd get traded for a bag of practice balls, and you know it! :wink:

[pbmax]

Didn't someone just post Arrigo getting called on posting USC Pro Day pictures as "his", then clarify that the photographer (a friend of his) sent them to "him" only for the webmaster of the site to find out he had no permission to use the photos?

That guy is full of horsebleep.

[Guiness]

Steven Jackson would be nice, but there's another guy out there who I think would be an immediate upgrade...what about Larry Johnson?

He should come cheaper then Jackson, and KC has to be looking to the future, not the present as well.

[pbmax]

Mike Florio says the Packers should trade for Steven Jackson right now. I guess I am not opposed to that.

Got this off of twitter

Anyone think TT would make a deal like this?

Joe Thomas?
Can you post a link? There is nothing on PFT's Twitter about this.

[pbmax]

Found it and its complete speculation. Actually, its not even speculation based on actual information, its his opinion of where players from bad teams should go. The title of Florio's piece at SportingNews.com is: Trades That Should Be Made Before The Deadline (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-10-14/10-pack-trades-should-be-made-before-deadline)

The other option is New England. :roll:

[sheepshead]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/PackersLounge?ref=nf


from these guys on facebook...maybe its all fluff

[bobblehead]

Wow -- maybe RG and picks.

:shock: Don't trade me man! I haven't been THAT bad, have I?

You'd get traded for a bag of practice balls, and you know it! :wink:

wouldnt' we have to throw in something of value?? :D

[Guiness]

Wow -- maybe RG and picks.

:shock: Don't trade me man! I haven't been THAT bad, have I?

You'd get traded for a bag of practice balls, and you know it! :wink:

wouldnt' we have to throw in something of value?? :D

A bag of pucks?

[Bossman641]

Steven Jackson would be nice, but there's another guy out there who I think would be an immediate upgrade...what about Larry Johnson?

He should come cheaper then Jackson, and KC has to be looking to the future, not the present as well.

I think I just threw up in my mouth

No thanks

[cheesner]

Steven Jackson would be nice, but there's another guy out there who I think would be an immediate upgrade...what about Larry Johnson?

He should come cheaper then Jackson, and KC has to be looking to the future, not the present as well.

I think I just threw up in my mouth

No thanksLarry is probably done. I think Grant is better at this point. I like Steven Jackson and would do the deal if that was a real option.

As far as Arrigo reporting something . . . you have access to all the same info he does. Either he or his source is just speculation. He has yet to hit a single prediction - as far as I know. Reports of his accuracy are unfounded.

[red]

Steven Jackson would be nice, but there's another guy out there who I think would be an immediate upgrade...what about Larry Johnson?

He should come cheaper then Jackson, and KC has to be looking to the future, not the present as well.

LJ is done

he has the lowest yards per carry of any of the top 50 rb's

heard that on the radio yesterday

that is a guy that does need a great o-line in front of him

[DannoMac21]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

*sigh* Must you get everyone excited like this? Arrigo's a joke and posts rumors every day. Look at that thread, he talks about trades for Merriman, Cromartie, Joe Thomas, Peppers, McFadden, and Chris Long. Are the Rams really going to traded Chris Long?! Are the Browns realistically going to trade the best player on their team?

I'd absolutely love a Grant+2nd for Jackson deal, but the Rams just signed S-Jack to a 6 year extension last year. He's the only argument for Rams fans in a football debate.

[DannoMac21]

Didn't someone just post Arrigo getting called on posting USC Pro Day pictures as "his", then clarify that the photographer (a friend of his) sent them to "him" only for the webmaster of the site to find out he had no permission to use the photos?

That guy is full of horsebleep.

Yeah that definitely happened. He's done and said endless things and people still worship the guy because he spits out rumors. I could very well be doing the same thing and getting the same amount of attention and love and say I'm getting all my info from friends "inside the headquarters". Not a bad idea...hmm...

[Waldo]

If there was anybody on the Rams that I'd love to trade for, Otagwe would be the guy, not Jackson. (though I wouldn't mind Jackson).

[Waldo]

Didn't someone just post Arrigo getting called on posting USC Pro Day pictures as "his", then clarify that the photographer (a friend of his) sent them to "him" only for the webmaster of the site to find out he had no permission to use the photos?

That guy is full of horsebleep.

Yeah that definitely happened. He's done and said endless things and people still worship the guy because he spits out rumors. I could very well be doing the same thing and getting the same amount of attention and love and say I'm getting all my info from friends "inside the headquarters". Not a bad idea...hmm...

You have to question, why does he do it? He somehow has inside connections at the highest levels of the organization, talks to them constantly for the latest dirt, and goes around spreading his findings like a man of mercy on message boards, saving the day, telling fans what is really going on? He doesn't do it for money, and he rarely converses about the Packers. When he does, it is apparent that he doesn't know nearly as much as he should if he was a team insider. I'm not crazy am I, that just sounds silly.

His cap acumen is woeful, he spreads a lot of cap infeasible rumors.

I think a lot of people listen to him and follow him because of the manner of presentation and the desire for the type of information, without knowing his history. For people that have seen him around 2-3+ years, ummm, what has he ever gotten right? He says things in an unprovable manner always, and basically says something for every possible happening.

[Scott Campbell]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

*sigh* Must you get everyone excited like this? Arrigo's a joke and posts rumors every day. Look at that thread, he talks about trades for Merriman, Cromartie, Joe Thomas, Peppers, McFadden, and Chris Long. Are the Rams really going to traded Chris Long?! Are the Browns realistically going to trade the best player on their team?

I'd absolutely love a Grant+2nd for Jackson deal, but the Rams just signed S-Jack to a 6 year extension last year. He's the only argument for Rams fans in a football debate.



That's just the nature of the beast with trade rumors. For every 10 that get discussed, maybe 1 gets consummated.

I'm more than happy to hear about it even if nothing happens.

[MadtownPacker]

Wow, all kinds of grant hating now. Good. He is not a starter and should have been replaced when he held out/didnt sign last year. Not sure why TT didnt play hard ball with him.

[3irty1]

Steven Jackson is boners. He's one of the most complete backs in the league. This trade seems to make a lot of sense for everyone.

[cheesner]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

*sigh* Must you get everyone excited like this? Arrigo's a joke and posts rumors every day. Look at that thread, he talks about trades for Merriman, Cromartie, Joe Thomas, Peppers, McFadden, and Chris Long. Are the Rams really going to traded Chris Long?! Are the Browns realistically going to trade the best player on their team?

I'd absolutely love a Grant+2nd for Jackson deal, but the Rams just signed S-Jack to a 6 year extension last year. He's the only argument for Rams fans in a football debate.



That's just the nature of the beast with trade rumors. For every 10 that get discussed, maybe 1 gets consummated.

I'm more than happy to hear about it even if nothing happens.
If you hear something you think may be genuine, from people who have access to the info, you repeat it, that is a rumor.

If your buddy suggests that it would be a good idea for the Pack to trade for player XXX and give up YYY - that is speculation.

There is nothing wrong with speculating - just call it what it is.

Although I bet TT discusses many trades every season that never reach a serious stage, I don't give much credence to the Joe source because he has been completely off base most of the time. I would estimate he is 0 for 100 in predicting Packer FA signings. In 06 he listed 20-30 FAs that the Packers were supposedly interested in signing. The theory was TT cleared up the cap space and now was ready to make his move in the FA market and some of the big names would be brought in the first day for tryouts. As it turned out - no players were brought in and TT stated later that there was little interest in many of the big names. Interestingly, 2 of the names not on the list? Ryan Pickett and Charles Woodson, the only two we actually did sign.

[Pugger]

If this rumor has any truth to it I pray TT pulls the trigger. Jackson is an elite back. This guy is #4 in rushing with that sorry team in St. Louis. Backs like this don't grow on trees. If our opponents had to concern themselves with a back like this Rodgers life would become so much easier! :D

[Bretsky]

Doubt TT has much interest but I'd pull the trigger without hesitation. Take our first, or take our second plus Grant.

As a Ram Fan...behind GB.....this dude has serious dam talent.

[denverYooper]

Steven Jackson is boners.

Never heard that phrase b4, but i dig it. No doubt there'd be many boners in packerland if this happened.

[mmmdk]

...a lot of real trade rumors about STEPHEN JACKSON of Golden St. Warriors but I can't find any legit rumors on Steven Jackson the Ram :?: Would be cool though and will cost high draft pick(s) plus probably Flynn or Brohm.

[cheesner]

...a lot of real trade rumors about STEPHEN JACKSON of Golden St. Warriors but I can't find any legit rumors on Steven Jackson the Ram :?: Would be cool though and will cost high draft pick(s) plus probably Flynn or Brohm.

If they wanted Brohm, they would just sign him, he is on the practice squad, afterall.

[mmmdk]

...a lot of real trade rumors about STEPHEN JACKSON of Golden St. Warriors but I can't find any legit rumors on Steven Jackson the Ram :?: Would be cool though and will cost high draft pick(s) plus probably Flynn or Brohm.

If they wanted Brohm, they would just sign him, he is on the practice squad, afterall.

More important point; the trade ain't happening.

[pasquale]

Steven Jackson is boners.

Never heard that phrase b4, but i dig it. No doubt there'd be many boners in packerland if this happened.

the world is now a better place, eh dirty?

[SnakeLH2006]

Mike Florio says the Packers should trade for Steven Jackson right now. I guess I am not opposed to that.

Got this off of twitter

Anyone think TT would make a deal like this?

Joe Thomas?

I'm ok with the Jackson trade, but where does Joe Thomas come up? Snake is straight as a nail, but I'd have sex with Joe Thomas if that's what it took to get his ass at LT in GB over that train-wreck named Colledge. Sometimes you take one for the team...But I'd be the giver of course. :oops: :lol:....I'd get REAL DRUNK....but hey, we'd be dominant at LT, like Snake on JT's ass...whoops... :oops: :shock:

[Maxie the Taxi]

Why would TT trade for Jackson when, in 2007 draft, he wouldn't trade up for Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson? Instead, he drafted Justin Harrell.

In 2007 he felt Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer at running back. A lot of us back then were hoping he'd at least trade up and try to get Lynch. It was severely disappointing when he didn't.

Anyone could tell from the film that Lynch and Peterson were in a class by themselves that draft year, and Peterson was head and shoulders above Lynch. Minnesota pulled the trigger that year. TT held his fire. The result, we got two also rans, while Buffalo and Minnesota (well Minnesota for sure) got the difference makers.

Maybe TT and MM are still married to the idea that their zone blocking scheme doesn't require elite backs.

In the 2008 draft which was rich with running back talent (Darren McFadden, Johathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower), TT drafted ZERO running backs, apparently still thinking Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer.

Again, a lot of us were severely disappointed TT couldn't pull the trigger then.

I'd be shocked if he pulled it now and traded for Steven Jackson.

[Waldo]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

[Scott Campbell]

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.


I'd argue that there is no such thing. i.e. Kijana Carter

[sheepshead]

Not in football there isnt-no way. The biggest crap shoot in all of sports

[bobblehead]

Wow, all kinds of grant hating now. Good. He is not a starter and should have been replaced when he held out/didnt sign last year. Not sure why TT didnt play hard ball with him.

I'm convinced Grant got the benefit of all the bad press TT was getting regarding Favre. It made no sense to give him anywhere near the deal he got.

TWill got his pay bumped to a cool million from the 400k minimum, and that is all Grant should have gotten at that time as well.

[bobblehead]

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.


I'd argue that there is no such thing. i.e. Kijana Carter

I would say its not even a debate....Tony Mandarich. Akili Smith. David Carr. I could go on for a page and a half, but most people wouldn't even recognize the names of guys who aren't Packers or QB's...ie, Andre Bruce. Blair Thomas anyone?

[red]

why are who people even still talking about this?

its been proven to be complete BS

it started with an opinion piece with a guy saying that jackson should be tradrd and green bay is the team tht should want him

this is no different then me saying that pittsburg should trade polamalu because is head and shoulders commercial is so stupid.

and green bay should be the team that goes after him because we have the cap space and could use him at safety

lets see how long it takes arrigo or the rest of the nut jobs over there to pick up on that one

[MadScientist]

Steven Jackson is boners. He's one of the most complete backs in the league. This trade seems to make a lot of sense for everyone.
I'm still not sure how this makes much sense for the Rams. Sure they are going nowhere this year, but they give up some talent for a bit of cash savings and a 2nd rounder. Is it really worth it when Jackson is signed for several years? Unless I've missed something about Jackson wanting out, I don't think the Rams would consider it.

[woodbuck27]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

I hope he got this one right. Dreaming. :D

[woodbuck27]

Why would TT trade for Jackson when, in 2007 draft, he wouldn't trade up for Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson? Instead, he drafted Justin Harrell.

In 2007 he felt Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer at running back. A lot of us back then were hoping he'd at least trade up and try to get Lynch. It was severely disappointing when he didn't.

Anyone could tell from the film that Lynch and Peterson were in a class by themselves that draft year, and Peterson was head and shoulders above Lynch. Minnesota pulled the trigger that year. TT held his fire. The result, we got two also rans, while Buffalo and Minnesota (well Minnesota for sure) got the difference makers.

Maybe TT and MM are still married to the idea that their zone blocking scheme doesn't require elite backs.

In the 2008 draft which was rich with running back talent (Darren McFadden, Johathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower), TT drafted ZERO running backs, apparently still thinking Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer.

Again, a lot of us were severely disappointed TT couldn't pull the trigger then.

I'd be shocked if he pulled it now and traded for Steven Jackson.

I wake up call for all those that absolutely are convinced he's the answer at GM for our future.

[cheesner]

Why would TT trade for Jackson when, in 2007 draft, he wouldn't trade up for Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson? Instead, he drafted Justin Harrell.

In 2007 he felt Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer at running back. A lot of us back then were hoping he'd at least trade up and try to get Lynch. It was severely disappointing when he didn't.

Anyone could tell from the film that Lynch and Peterson were in a class by themselves that draft year, and Peterson was head and shoulders above Lynch. Minnesota pulled the trigger that year. TT held his fire. The result, we got two also rans, while Buffalo and Minnesota (well Minnesota for sure) got the difference makers.

Maybe TT and MM are still married to the idea that their zone blocking scheme doesn't require elite backs.

In the 2008 draft which was rich with running back talent (Darren McFadden, Johathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower), TT drafted ZERO running backs, apparently still thinking Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer.

Again, a lot of us were severely disappointed TT couldn't pull the trigger then.

I'd be shocked if he pulled it now and traded for Steven Jackson.

I wake up call for all those that absolutely are convinced he's the answer at GM for our future.And I think we should have traded a 7th round pick for Ed Reed and 6th rounder for Joe Thomas. Does that make me a better GM than TT?

What would have it taken to trade up for either of Lynch or Peterson? Were any teams even willing to trade up? Or does this really not matter and it just another opportunity to deride TT?

[woodbuck27]

Why would TT trade for Jackson when, in 2007 draft, he wouldn't trade up for Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson? Instead, he drafted Justin Harrell.

In 2007 he felt Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer at running back. A lot of us back then were hoping he'd at least trade up and try to get Lynch. It was severely disappointing when he didn't.

Anyone could tell from the film that Lynch and Peterson were in a class by themselves that draft year, and Peterson was head and shoulders above Lynch. Minnesota pulled the trigger that year. TT held his fire. The result, we got two also rans, while Buffalo and Minnesota (well Minnesota for sure) got the difference makers.

Maybe TT and MM are still married to the idea that their zone blocking scheme doesn't require elite backs.

In the 2008 draft which was rich with running back talent (Darren McFadden, Johathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower), TT drafted ZERO running backs, apparently still thinking Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer.

Again, a lot of us were severely disappointed TT couldn't pull the trigger then.

I'd be shocked if he pulled it now and traded for Steven Jackson.

I wake up call for all those that absolutely are convinced he's the answer at GM for our future.And I think we should have traded a 7th round pick for Ed Reed and 6th rounder for Joe Thomas. Does that make me a better GM than TT?

What would have it taken to trade up for either of Lynch or Peterson? Were any teams even willing to trade up? Or does this really not matter and it just another opportunity to deride TT?

The message is clear. TT has to make moves for us that are obviously more in tune as difference makers rather that cover moves or nothings. He has to act bolder.

[Fritz]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.

[woodbuck27]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.

Not meaning to get off topic but a comment on A. Peterson follows:

A large part of the Vikings smarts in luring Favre back was to provide some protection for Adrian Peterson. The way it was he was headed. It's my opinion he was headed for a short career in the NFL. Even today I"m not sure he's going on all cylinders. Favre is huge in the Vikings offense.

[Fritz]

Back on topic: I think Jackson is 26 years old.

I would be thrilled to give up Grant and a second rounder, but only on this proviso:

That McCarthy would actually give the guy the ball - and not just as a receiver, but as a runner. What good to give up a second rounder and fork over the cash to Jackson if MM is going to give him 11 carries a game?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing TT as good, bad or indifferent. I'm simply trying to analyze his philosophy of building a team.

As far as hindsight goes, yeah we benefit from it. But people were also making these arguments AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT.

That there are busts and no guarantees of NFL success is obvious. I was happy TT drafted Abdul Hodge.

But I'd still argue that 80-90% of guys who rose to the top in big school college programs rise to the top in the NFL.

[Fritz]

Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing TT as good, bad or indifferent. I'm simply trying to analyze his philosophy of building a team.

As far as hindsight goes, yeah we benefit from it. But people were also making these arguments AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT.

That there are busts and no guarantees of NFL success is obvious. I was happy TT drafted Abdul Hodge.

But I'd still argue that 80-90% of guys who rose to the top in big school college programs rise to the top in the NFL.

Well, I read your line about TT and long shots and losing too often as a criticism, especially against the backdrop of the Peterson pick.

But the same arguments people made at the time of the draft - Peterson was an injury risk, Harrell was an injury risk - turned out to be true in one case and not the other.

And about that 80-90% thing....if you're talking about "gambling" on talent from bigger schools....that fits the Harrell pick (Tennessee).

Ted hits, Ted misses. But he's amassed a lot of picks over his five years so he's had more shots. What we might be learning this year is that it's possible he hangs on to picks too long. Rouse would be the prime example. I don't know if Hodge fits that. Or Jackson.

[Bretsky]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.


I had heard TT wanted Revis too

But if it's true that he tried to trade out why didn't he trade down with Denver as Jacksonville did. Then they grabbed the safety they wanted in Reggie Nelson while the Broncos drafted another DL Bust in Jarvis Moss

[Bretsky]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.


Peterson had special talent; I don't think Harrell had that

[woodbuck27]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.


Peterson had special talent; I don't think Harrell had that

I'm still annoyed TT didn't have the smarts in his first draft for us to pick ( a special DE prospect ) in Justin Tuck.

[Gunakor]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.


Peterson had special talent; I don't think Harrell had that

Watch Harrell's junior season at Tennessee. Beastly. I only wish that special talent could find it's way onto an NFL football field. If it did, we'd all be talking about a gamble that paid off. Just like if Peterson still had nagging injuries the Vikings fans might be all over Zigi for gambling on an injury prone RB that high in the draft. This is where a bit of luck helps.

[Partial]

I think you're doing a dis-service to Peterson. He is a once in a generation type of talent. If he stays healthy I have little doubt that he will be talked about among the best if not as the best.

He has freakish acceleration, change of direction and power.

He is scary good. I honestly don't think there is a single player I would rather have on my team. And that says a lot because I value quarterbacks WAY more than any other position. Maybe Peyton Manning. He's the only guy with the same level of separation between number one and number two in the game.

[Gunakor]

No, I'm not doing a disservice to Peterson. I think anyone who thinks lack of talent is Harrell's problem is doing a disservice to Harrell. Talent was never an issue for him. Staying healthy is the issue. If he could get back to health he could use that talent to help our football team. I'm about ready to call him a bust at this point same as everyone else, but it's not because he doesn't have the talent. The guy just can't get healthy and stay healthy.

[Partial]

That's not at all what I'm saying. He may have good talent and have the potential abilities of a typical first round pick. Peterson is a once in a generation draft type of player. There is a Harrell every single year. The only reason Peterson fell is because of his injury history and those teams above the Vikes not needing RBs.

[Gunakor]

That's not at all what I'm saying. He may have good talent and have the potential abilities of a typical first round pick. Peterson is a once in a generation draft type of player. There is a Harrell every single year. The only reason Peterson fell is because of his injury history and those teams above the Vikes not needing RBs.

I don't worship a guy who could only manage 2.2 yards per carry on 25 carries against a substandard rush defense as a once in a generation type player, but that's just me. In fact, his production hasn't been all that spectacular since week 1.

I get what your saying, but you missed what I originally responded to. Bretsky said Peterson has special talent and Harrell doesn't. That's false. Had Harrell declared early, after his junior season, he'd have gone top 10 same as Peterson. Harrell DOES have special talent, he just can't get healthy enough to put that talent on display. He's had several years to get healthy now, and eventually you have to pull the plug. But on draft day, both were expected to be outstanding football players.

And hindsight aside, nobody expected Peterson to be this once in a generation type player the day he was drafted any more than they did Harrell.

[woodbuck27]

That's not at all what I'm saying. He may have good talent and have the potential abilities of a typical first round pick. Peterson is a once in a generation draft type of player. There is a Harrell every single year. The only reason Peterson fell is because of his injury history and those teams above the Vikes not needing RBs.

I don't worship a guy who could only manage 2.2 yards per carry on 25 carries against a substandard rush defense as a once in a generation type player, but that's just me. In fact, his production hasn't been all that spectacular since week 1.

I get what your saying, but you missed what I originally responded to. Bretsky said Peterson has special talent and Harrell doesn't. That's false. Had Harrell declared early, after his junior season, he'd have gone top 10 same as Peterson. Harrell DOES have special talent, he just can't get healthy enough to put that talent on display. He's had several years to get healthy now, and eventually you have to pull the plug. But on draft day, both were expected to be outstanding football players.

And hindsight aside, nobody expected Peterson to be this once in a generation type player the day he was drafted any more than they did Harrell.

I'm not sure Adrian Peterson was 100% healthy last week. Rastak??

[3irty1]

Once in a generation?! As in ~25 years? What about LT, Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Terrell Davis, Thurman Thomas? Those guys are just the Running backs.

I know you like Peterson but thats a pretty bold claim even from you.

[red]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

[pbmax]

That's not at all what I'm saying. He may have good talent and have the potential abilities of a typical first round pick. Peterson is a once in a generation draft type of player. There is a Harrell every single year. The only reason Peterson fell is because of his injury history and those teams above the Vikes not needing RBs.
Adding to killer's statement; even if he IS the once in a generation talent, RBs and an effective running game are much easier to come by than two way Defensive Tackles in a 4-3.

The injury concern isn't the only reason he dropped to the Vikes. When was the last RB selected number 1? And how many Super Bowl trips did he earn?

[Brandon494]

Its really no point of talking about this, this trade is not going to happen along with any other trade involving the Packers. Ryan Grant is not a top RB in the league but he is better than some give him credit for. Our line is horrible and the zone blocking scheme is a joke. MM is also very predictable when he does run the ball and gives up on it way too easily.

[Lurker64]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

[MJZiggy]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

Free Agency gone bad. They got aggressive and it didn't work out for them.

[retailguy]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

Free Agency gone bad. They got aggressive and it didn't work out for them.

Huh? aggressive free agency? No. They have over 5mil in cap right now. they released pace and holt in the offseason. they had too many aging veterans with high salaries.

the team got old. the only free agent veteran with a high salary charge is Will Witherspoon.

Steven Jackson is over 12 mil, bulger is over 7 mil., chris long is over 8 mil, even their kicker (who I guess was a free agent) is over 5mil...

too many older players, but their cap is OK. Jacksons contract is just too new with too high of a cap hit. that's all.

[MJZiggy]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

Free Agency gone bad. They got aggressive and it didn't work out for them.

Huh? aggressive free agency? No. They have over 5mil in cap right now. they released pace and holt in the offseason. they had too many aging veterans with high salaries.

the team got old. the only free agent veteran with a high salary charge is Will Witherspoon.

Steven Jackson is over 12 mil, bulger is over 7 mil., chris long is over 8 mil, even their kicker (who I guess was a free agent) is over 5mil...

too many older players, but their cap is OK. Jacksons contract is just too new with too high of a cap hit. that's all.

Pssst...I was teasing B. The Rams are his "other" team.

[retailguy]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

Free Agency gone bad. They got aggressive and it didn't work out for them.

Huh? aggressive free agency? No. They have over 5mil in cap right now. they released pace and holt in the offseason. they had too many aging veterans with high salaries.

the team got old. the only free agent veteran with a high salary charge is Will Witherspoon.

Steven Jackson is over 12 mil, bulger is over 7 mil., chris long is over 8 mil, even their kicker (who I guess was a free agent) is over 5mil...

too many older players, but their cap is OK. Jacksons contract is just too new with too high of a cap hit. that's all.

Pssst...I was teasing B. The Rams are his "other" team.

Whew. I thought you'd joined the list of "evil free agency morons". :wink:

You know how it is around here. If you've heard of the guy, he's overpriced, unless he is a current packer. :roll:

[pbmax]

Whew. I thought you'd joined the list of "evil free agency morons". :wink:

You know how it is around here. If you've heard of the guy, he's overpriced, unless he is a current packer. :roll:
I knew that Will Witherspoon signing would come back to haunt them!

:whaa:

[woodbuck27]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

Free Agency gone bad. They got aggressive and it didn't work out for them.

Huh? aggressive free agency? No. They have over 5mil in cap right now. they released pace and holt in the offseason. they had too many aging veterans with high salaries.

the team got old. the only free agent veteran with a high salary charge is Will Witherspoon.

Steven Jackson is over 12 mil, bulger is over 7 mil., chris long is over 8 mil, even their kicker (who I guess was a free agent) is over 5mil...

too many older players, but their cap is OK. Jacksons contract is just too new with too high of a cap hit. that's all.

Yup. S. Jackson isn't a dream he's a mirage.

[SnakeLH2006]

Its really no point of talking about this, this trade is not going to happen along with any other trade involving the Packers. Ryan Grant is not a top RB in the league but he is better than some give him credit for. Our line is horrible and the zone blocking scheme is a joke. MM is also very predictable when he does run the ball and gives up on it way too easily.

I agree with everyone you wrote there Brandon. But the top reason this WON'T happen is cause Joe Arrigo said it would. Joe Arrigo is kinda the inside joke that the Chuck Norris thing became as a phenomenom on the Internet. Joe tells you something....good as gold it's fabricated or loosey-goosey BS.

Joe Arrigo: I have inside sources that tell me that Brandon's real name is Fred Smith.
Brandon: Here's my birth certificate bitch. My name has always been Brandon.
Joe Arrigo: (no comment).......................(jumps to new website to spread his fake rumors and fan base).

[Freak Out]

oops... :oops:

[SnakeLH2006]

oops... :oops:

Freak...don't be embarrassed. Joe Arrigo looked pretty legit at PackerChatters which Snake (won't ask who but many Rats) followed for the rumors 3-4 years ago as a member. He really sounds legit....but he's switched forums 4 times in the past 4 years...after being called out on it. He's phony baloney. If Arrigo's name is attached it's 110% BS. You live and learn. Snake wasted 2 years on PackerChatters. Some Rats are assholes on here, but at least you get "clear" views. It is how it is. His (Joe Arrigo and Randolph)'s views are candy strip versions of rumors. Really, really sad stuff. Never EVER trust Joe....Well...I trust Admin. Joe....he seems pretty solid but as long as it's not Arrigo.

[woodbuck27]

oops... :oops:

Freak...don't be embarrassed. Joe Arrigo looked pretty legit at PackerChatters which Snake (won't ask who but many Rats) followed for the rumors 3-4 years ago as a member. He really sounds legit....but he's switched forums 4 times in the past 4 years...after being called out on it. He's phony baloney. If Arrigo's name is attached it's 110% BS. You live and learn. Snake wasted 2 years on PackerChatters. Some Rats are assholes on here, but at least you get "clear" views. It is how it is. His (Joe Arrigo and Randolph)'s views are candy strip versions of rumors. Really, really sad stuff. Never EVER trust Joe....Well...I trust Admin. Joe....he seems pretty solid but as long as it's not Arrigo.

You almost covered your ass there snake. :D

[Rastak]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors

Interesting speculation here. I'd consider that Pats deal if I were the Rams.




During a recent appearance on the B.S. Report with ESPN.com's Bill Simmons, former NFL executive Mike Lombardi of the National Football Post discussed the possibility of the St. Louis Rams trading Steven Jackson before Tuesday's trade deadline.

The idea is intriguing, and Lombardi notes that the Rams could leverage Jackson in a trade similar to what the Dallas Cowboys did with Herschel Walker 20 years ago. Unfortunately, Lombardi says that the trade is somewhat unlikely, because unlike the other leagues, in the NFL selling off at the deadline sends a bad message to fans. The implication is that it will be tough to sell tickets to fans when they know that management has given up on trying to win this season.

But Simmons did propose a trade on behalf of the New England Patriots that Lombardi said, "the Rams would definitely think about." In this hypothetical world, the Patriots would send the Rams Laurence Maroney, the Oakland Raiders' first-rounder in 2011 that they got for Richard Seymour, and one of their own second-rounders for this upcoming April.

Jackson-to-the-Pats is a pretty unlikely scenario, but that would certainly shift the balance of power in the AFC back to Foxboro, would it not?

[MOBB DEEP]

Reports say that he wants to play with LeBron and Shaq

[red]

oops... :oops:

Freak...don't be embarrassed. Joe Arrigo looked pretty legit at PackerChatters which Snake (won't ask who but many Rats) followed for the rumors 3-4 years ago as a member. He really sounds legit....but he's switched forums 4 times in the past 4 years...after being called out on it. He's phony baloney. If Arrigo's name is attached it's 110% BS. You live and learn. Snake wasted 2 years on PackerChatters. Some Rats are assholes on here, but at least you get "clear" views. It is how it is. His (Joe Arrigo and Randolph)'s views are candy strip versions of rumors. Really, really sad stuff. Never EVER trust Joe....Well...I trust Admin. Joe....he seems pretty solid but as long as it's not Arrigo.
yup yup

i was there too

if people would say, man i wish the packers woould try and get so and so, you could bet that someone on that site would soon say they had inside info that the packers were going after so and so

i left because the site became nothing but rumor mongering. a guy that would post for two years would all of a sudden, overnight, have inside info to every team.

it became worthless to post there, no one cared what you said if it didn't have "inside info" attached to it

and heaven forbid anyone would call out one of the inside info guys

[Bretsky]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

Free Agency gone bad. They got aggressive and it didn't work out for them.

Huh? aggressive free agency? No. They have over 5mil in cap right now. they released pace and holt in the offseason. they had too many aging veterans with high salaries.

the team got old. the only free agent veteran with a high salary charge is Will Witherspoon.

Steven Jackson is over 12 mil, bulger is over 7 mil., chris long is over 8 mil, even their kicker (who I guess was a free agent) is over 5mil...

too many older players, but their cap is OK. Jacksons contract is just too new with too high of a cap hit. that's all.

Pssst...I was teasing B. The Rams are his "other" team.


OUCH


Throwing another insult as somebody who cheers for the Rams is like kicking him in the nads after Mike Tyson punches him in the face !!!

[mission]

This could never happen.

It'd be too awesome.

[MJZiggy]

to put to final nail in this goofy story

PFT is running a story that the rams don't have the free cap room to absorb the cap hit that a trade would cause

Jesús, how are they this bad and spending this much money?

Free Agency gone bad. They got aggressive and it didn't work out for them.

Huh? aggressive free agency? No. They have over 5mil in cap right now. they released pace and holt in the offseason. they had too many aging veterans with high salaries.

the team got old. the only free agent veteran with a high salary charge is Will Witherspoon.

Steven Jackson is over 12 mil, bulger is over 7 mil., chris long is over 8 mil, even their kicker (who I guess was a free agent) is over 5mil...

too many older players, but their cap is OK. Jacksons contract is just too new with too high of a cap hit. that's all.

Pssst...I was teasing B. The Rams are his "other" team.


OUCH


Throwing another insult as somebody who cheers for the Rams is like kicking him in the nads after Mike Tyson punches him in the face !!!

Take heart. At least you're not a Redskins fan...

[Mr. T]

The message is clear. TT has to make moves for us that are obviously more in tune as difference makers rather that cover moves or nothings. He has to act bolder.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/43699582.html
"Packers just traded up in the first round to take USC LB Clay Matthews Jr., a very good and versatile player.

Packers send their lone second-round pick (41st) and both third-round picks (73 and 83) to New England for the 26th overall pick and a fifth-rounder (162)."

Seems that this guy has been a difference maker the last two games (against one very good team and one very bad team).

The book is out on Raji, but he was heralded as an impact pick.

Don't get me wrong - TT completely blew it this year with the O-Line. This from a guy who preaches the importance of the trenches.

More like the impotence of the trenches - HA!

[retailguy]

The message is clear. TT has to make moves for us that are obviously more in tune as difference makers rather that cover moves or nothings. He has to act bolder.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/43699582.html
"Packers just traded up in the first round to take USC LB Clay Matthews Jr., a very good and versatile player.

Packers send their lone second-round pick (41st) and both third-round picks (73 and 83) to New England for the 26th overall pick and a fifth-rounder (162)."

Seems that this guy has been a difference maker the last two games (against one very good team and one very bad team).

The book is out on Raji, but he was heralded as an impact pick.

Don't get me wrong - TT completely blew it this year with the O-Line. This from a guy who preaches the importance of the trenches.

More like the impotence of the trenches - HA!

Yup, trading up for Matthews was a bold move, and a good one. Ted has to get credit for that.

The trade that has me scratching my head was Moll to the Ravens for Mason. I've never understood exactly how Mason is an improvement over Smith. They seem equivalent to me. But the loss of Moll (who wasn't that great either), has definitely hurt us. The guy had some experience at LT, and probably would have performed better there than Colledge did. It would also have enabled us not to "shift" the line like we had to. Now, we have our least experienced lineman at the most critical position.

I'm not liking the odds. Guess we will find out in Cleveland....

[red]

not to mention moll is now the starting right tackle for the ravens

[Guiness]

not to mention moll is now the starting right tackle for the ravens

Mmm, if Moll and Meredith are starting...and playing well, that may spell the end for Philbin quicker than anything else. Not recognizing potential starters that are on your roster is inexcusable.

[mission]

not to mention moll is now the starting right tackle for the ravens

Mmm, if Moll and Meredith are starting...and playing well, that may spell the end for Philbin quicker than anything else. Not recognizing potential starters that are on your roster is inexcusable.

Both he and Campen.

What kind of credentials do these guys have anyway? Really, have they done a damn thing in this league?

[Guiness]

not to mention moll is now the starting right tackle for the ravens

Mmm, if Moll and Meredith are starting...and playing well, that may spell the end for Philbin quicker than anything else. Not recognizing potential starters that are on your roster is inexcusable.

Both he and Campen.

What kind of credentials do these guys have anyway? Really, have they done a damn thing in this league?

Sry, meant Campen.

[Zool]

Martin not Mason.

[retailguy]

Martin not Mason.

guy is so damn good, I don't even know his name.. :roll: :wink:

[Partial]

not to mention moll is now the starting right tackle for the ravens

I think it might just be that our OL coaches are horrible. Perhaps it would be wise to can the entire O staff outside of MM after this season, too, because they basically suck in my opinion. Campen and Philbin? Neither seem qualified.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

not to mention moll is now the starting right tackle for the ravens

Mmm, if Moll and Meredith are starting...and playing well, that may spell the end for Philbin quicker than anything else. Not recognizing potential starters that are on your roster is inexcusable.

We saw enough of Moll to know that ain't gonna happen.

[pbmax]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How could anybody be that upset over the whole Martin, Moll, Smith thing?
All three players had been in the league for three years. All three started some games. They were mostly adequate with limited upside. Moll was on the cutline. Martin was on the cutline. Smith wasn't even offered a low money tender by the Steelers. They basically cut him. He made plays in the preseason, but I saw him give up as many as he got. Martin looks pretty ordinary, but many thought he was a solid backup in Baltimore. Moll is what he is. Not a bad backup, but not somebody you want starting a lot. Tauscher may have always been the fallback plan--since the Thompson always refused to write off his return.

[Partial]

since the Thompson always refused to write off his return.

I like "the Thompson" for a nickname.

The Thompson watches practice. The Thompson worked out Ahmen Green. The Thompson took a duke in his car. The Thompson drives a Carolla.

It flows nicely.

[MadScientist]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.
They must have said that Meridith couldn't play this year because he was too raw. Since Buffalo is proving that he can play, their report really means that they weren't capable of coaching well enough to get him ready to play. The results of the rest of the line are proving that fact out all too well. The Packers may not have the greatest OL talent, but these coaches would find a way to make the mid 90's Dallas line suck.

[retailguy]

How could anybody be that upset over the whole Martin, Moll, Smith thing?
All three players had been in the league for three years. All three started some games. They were mostly adequate with limited upside. Moll was on the cutline. Martin was on the cutline. Smith wasn't even offered a low money tender by the Steelers. They basically cut him. He made plays in the preseason, but I saw him give up as many as he got. Martin looks pretty ordinary, but many thought he was a solid backup in Baltimore. Moll is what he is. Not a bad backup, but not somebody you want starting a lot. Tauscher may have always been the fallback plan--since the Thompson always refused to write off his return.

In my case it's simple. I think, and thought at the time, that we needed a lineman with experience rather than a safety with potential. Trading Moll depleted the backup ranks at tackle, and left us only unproven depth. The difference between Martin and Smith is negligble at best, and quite honestly, Smith might turn out to be the better player.

The depth was better served on the OL. Otherwise none of the three players are worth getting too excited about.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.
They must have said that Meridith couldn't play this year because he was too raw. Since Buffalo is proving that he can play, their report really means that they weren't capable of coaching well enough to get him ready to play. The results of the rest of the line are proving that fact out all too well. The Packers may not have the greatest OL talent, but these coaches would find a way to make the mid 90's Dallas line suck.

the pack wanted him at LT, he is playing RT.

Are we really going to 2nd guess our staff when he was on our practice squad and he is now the 4th RT to play for the Bills.

[denverYooper]

since the Thompson always refused to write off his return.

I like "the Thompson" for a nickname.

The Thompson watches practice. The Thompson worked out Ahmen Green. The Thompson took a duke in his car. The Thompson drives a Carolla.

It flows nicely.

Nice.

Doin' the bull dance. Feeling the flow. Workin' it. Workin' it...

[MadScientist]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.
They must have said that Meridith couldn't play this year because he was too raw. Since Buffalo is proving that he can play, their report really means that they weren't capable of coaching well enough to get him ready to play. The results of the rest of the line are proving that fact out all too well. The Packers may not have the greatest OL talent, but these coaches would find a way to make the mid 90's Dallas line suck.

the pack wanted him at LT, he is playing RT.

Are we really going to 2nd guess our staff when he was on our practice squad and he is now the 4th RT to play for the Bills.

Right, since there have been no problems at RT.

The fact remains that Buffalo took a guy that the Packers didn't think could play this year, gave him a month of coaching and made him a starter. It's early to see how this will play out, but early reports are that he is an improvement over their previous starter. Moll will be an even more significant case because he's had a couple of years to learn in Green Bay with poor results. If he gets blown-up on a regular basis, then it's him. If he holds his own, then it's the Packer coaches who suck.

[Zool]

Granted he'd be the 4th guy they've started at RT this year?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.
They must have said that Meridith couldn't play this year because he was too raw. Since Buffalo is proving that he can play, their report really means that they weren't capable of coaching well enough to get him ready to play. The results of the rest of the line are proving that fact out all too well. The Packers may not have the greatest OL talent, but these coaches would find a way to make the mid 90's Dallas line suck.

the pack wanted him at LT, he is playing RT.

Are we really going to 2nd guess our staff when he was on our practice squad and he is now the 4th RT to play for the Bills.

Right, since there have been no problems at RT.

The fact remains that Buffalo took a guy that the Packers didn't think could play this year, gave him a month of coaching and made him a starter. It's early to see how this will play out, but early reports are that he is an improvement over their previous starter. Moll will be an even more significant case because he's had a couple of years to learn in Green Bay with poor results. If he gets blown-up on a regular basis, then it's him. If he holds his own, then it's the Packer coaches who suck.

Barbre has improved. We now have Tausch, which i think was part of the plan from the beginning.

Play this year? Big assumption. How do you know what the staff was thinking?

Buff: Which starter is he better than..they went thru 3. :lol:

Moll: Because he is starting doesn't make him good. Will Whitticker started for us, and he sucked.

[MadScientist]

the pack wanted him at LT, he is playing RT.

Are we really going to 2nd guess our staff when he was on our practice squad and he is now the 4th RT to play for the Bills.

Right, since there have been no problems at RT.

The fact remains that Buffalo took a guy that the Packers didn't think could play this year, gave him a month of coaching and made him a starter. It's early to see how this will play out, but early reports are that he is an improvement over their previous starter. Moll will be an even more significant case because he's had a couple of years to learn in Green Bay with poor results. If he gets blown-up on a regular basis, then it's him. If he holds his own, then it's the Packer coaches who suck.

Barbre has improved. We now have Tausch, which i think was part of the plan from the beginning.

Play this year? Big assumption. How do you know what the staff was thinking?

Buff: Which starter is he better than..they went thru 3. :lol:

Moll: Because he is starting doesn't make him good. Will Whitticker started for us, and he sucked.

Barbre has improved, but given the Bears game, that doesn't mean he is good. Tauch is still a week or more away from being ready. The statements about playing this year come from the reporters, although no direct quotes from the Packers. As I said about Moll, if he sucks in Baltimore, then the problem is Moll, if he is decent, then the Packers coaches suck. (Note that Moll sucking does not mean that the Packer coaches don't suck, just that Moll's sucking wasn't their problem).

I'll leave with this comment about Meridith from Buffalo's OL coach:


From what Kugler saw with the naked eye, he had no complaints about Meredith's performance.

"I give all the credit to [assistant offensive line] coach [Ray] Brown," Kugler said. "When Jamon came from Green Bay, Coach Brown spent a lot of time with him in the meeting rooms and on the field. We sat down and talked about [it] and Ray said, "We've got something in this kid.' "

We kind of took a chance and really felt like he could do the job. Coach Brown believed in him and he just went out and did a heck of a job, as did the rest of the guys up front."

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You are making some poor logic. Regardless of Barbre or Tausch, Jamon couldn't beat either of them out.

Now, if you are really saying that our coaches can't eval talent then that is something else.

Or, maybe, the light turned on for him. Way to many variables.

Also, it is kinda foolish to compare us to Buff without knowing what they are coaching and asking him to do.

Moll: Or that he is asked to do something we don't do.

Jamon: What would you expect them to say? Not saying he couldn't be a find...as TT has found guys as well. But, i dare say we could find quotes about Whittaker that would be just as glowing.

[Guiness]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.
They must have said that Meridith couldn't play this year because he was too raw. Since Buffalo is proving that he can play, their report really means that they weren't capable of coaching well enough to get him ready to play. The results of the rest of the line are proving that fact out all too well. The Packers may not have the greatest OL talent, but these coaches would find a way to make the mid 90's Dallas line suck.

the pack wanted him at LT, he is playing RT.

Are we really going to 2nd guess our staff when he was on our practice squad and he is now the 4th RT to play for the Bills.

He's the 4th guy to start at RT for the Bills? :lol: I'm guessing that if he was still with us, by the time we lost 3 other starters, he would've been elevated from the ps and trotted out.

He's started one game. We can hardly make a decision based on that fact. But if he sticks, and becomes their regular starter, it certainly doesn't look good for the staff's ability to evaluate talent. They obviously had a better chance to look at him than anyone else.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.
They must have said that Meridith couldn't play this year because he was too raw. Since Buffalo is proving that he can play, their report really means that they weren't capable of coaching well enough to get him ready to play. The results of the rest of the line are proving that fact out all too well. The Packers may not have the greatest OL talent, but these coaches would find a way to make the mid 90's Dallas line suck.

the pack wanted him at LT, he is playing RT.

Are we really going to 2nd guess our staff when he was on our practice squad and he is now the 4th RT to play for the Bills.

He's the 4th guy to start at RT for the Bills? :lol: I'm guessing that if he was still with us, by the time we lost 3 other starters, he would've been elevated from the ps and trotted out.

He's started one game. We can hardly make a decision based on that fact. But if he sticks, and becomes their regular starter, it certainly doesn't look good for the staff's ability to evaluate talent. They obviously had a better chance to look at him than anyone else.

Yes. The 4th.

Staff: All staff's find and lose guys. If there has been one thing TT has consistently is find FAs and low round scrap heap guys that could play. Losing one ain't gonna change my view on him. Might change my view on Campen though.

One game: Agreed. If he gets roasted next game does he suck? In order to make a judgement about him we need more data. Ty will say that i liked him and thought he could play eventually, but advocated his release for fear of multiple ham jokes...and the eventually Michael Jackson jokes.

Jamon, Jamon!!

[retailguy]

Whew. I thought you'd joined the list of "evil free agency morons". :wink:

You know how it is around here. If you've heard of the guy, he's overpriced, unless he is a current packer. :roll:
I knew that Will Witherspoon signing would come back to haunt them!

:whaa:

Traded to Philly - CAP HIT. They're screwed now! :shock: :wink:

[MadScientist]

Regardless of Barbre or Tausch, Jamon couldn't beat either of them out.

Tauch wasn't there to beat out, but no, at the end of camp he wasn't at the level of the others and as we found out the level of the others wasn't all that good.

Now, if you are really saying that our coaches can't eval talent then that is something else.

Or, maybe, the light turned on for him. Way to many variables.

I'm not saying they can't evaluate the talent. I'm saying they can't coach well enough to develop it.

Also, it is kinda foolish to compare us to Buff without knowing what they are coaching and asking him to do.

Moll: Or that he is asked to do something we don't do.
Yea, they'll be asked to block.

Jamon: What would you expect them to say? Not saying he couldn't be a find...as TT has found guys as well. But, i dare say we could find quotes about Whittaker that would be just as glowing.
The puff piece quotes are common during minicamps and training camps, but less so during the season when the games count (at least they were with Whittaker :lol: )

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Regardless of Barbre or Tausch, Jamon couldn't beat either of them out.

Tauch wasn't there to beat out, but no, at the end of camp he wasn't at the level of the others and as we found out the level of the others wasn't all that good.

Now, if you are really saying that our coaches can't eval talent then that is something else.

Or, maybe, the light turned on for him. Way to many variables.

I'm not saying they can't evaluate the talent. I'm saying they can't coach well enough to develop it.

Also, it is kinda foolish to compare us to Buff without knowing what they are coaching and asking him to do.

Moll: Or that he is asked to do something we don't do.
Yea, they'll be asked to block.

Jamon: What would you expect them to say? Not saying he couldn't be a find...as TT has found guys as well. But, i dare say we could find quotes about Whittaker that would be just as glowing.
The puff piece quotes are common during minicamps and training camps, but less so during the season when the games count (at least they were with Whittaker :lol: )

1. So, he couldn't beat out Barbre. And, TT knowing that Tausch was prolly going to be resigned knew he couldn't beat him out.

2. Are you really gonna evaluate our coaching based on Jamon and one start? That seems pretty foolish. Spitz has developed, Sitton as well, and Colledge as well. Even Barbre is coming along.

3. Yeah, all blocking schemes are the same. :oops:

4. Again, what would you expect them to say? They are on their 4th tackle. You want them to destroy what confidence he has so they have to replace him with another tackle. :lol:

[MadScientist]

2. Are you really gonna evaluate our coaching based on Jamon and one start? That seems pretty foolish. Spitz has developed, Sitton as well, and Colledge as well. Even Barbre is coming along.
No, I'm basing it on poor line play for the Packers the last 4 years. There's been a lot of bitching around here about TT's ability to draft linemen as the cause of this, but I think a bigger problem is the coaching. If Sitton, Colledge and Spitz have developed and Barbre is coming along, then how come the OL is so poor?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

2. Are you really gonna evaluate our coaching based on Jamon and one start? That seems pretty foolish. Spitz has developed, Sitton as well, and Colledge as well. Even Barbre is coming along.
No, I'm basing it on poor line play for the Packers the last 4 years. There's been a lot of bitching around here about TT's ability to draft linemen as the cause of this, but I think a bigger problem is the coaching. If Sitton, Colledge and Spitz have developed and Barbre is coming along, then how come the OL is so poor?

The Oline was so poor last year that we were 6th in offense? Or the year we went to the NFC championship game?

Sitt, Coll, Barbre...2 first year starters, people out of position, missing your starting tackle, etc.

Cohesion is HUGELY important for a oline to function optimally.

Bitching: There are certain posters that will always bitch and there are others that will use any excuse to rail against TT.

We are 3-2 and certain posters act like we are 0-5. We lost 2 two teams leading their division. Oline can perform better. No doubt. Let's see how things progress.

Ty saw this team at 9 or 10 wins. Still sticking with it. Doesn't matter if the Oline sucks, the ST suck, the rbs suck, etc.....all that counts is wins.

[pbmax]

The bottom of the roster is T2's preserve. Philbin and Campen don't get to pick the last two O line players. They get to give a report on whether they can play this year. Same with Perry and the safeties.
They must have said that Meridith couldn't play this year because he was too raw. Since Buffalo is proving that he can play, their report really means that they weren't capable of coaching well enough to get him ready to play. The results of the rest of the line are proving that fact out all too well. The Packers may not have the greatest OL talent, but these coaches would find a way to make the mid 90's Dallas line suck.
I give you starting Daryn Colledge at Left Tackle and Tony Moll at any position as proof that being asked to play and doing it well are two different things. It was one game and they scored 13 points. Not much to judge.

Although the Buffalo paper does mention that Meredith is the 4th RT to start (http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/832076.html) for them, they did play well versus the Jets.