Gaines Adams traded to the Bears

[Brando19]

Just read that Bucs DE Gaines Adams was just traded to the Bears for an undisclosed draft pick. The Bucs were reportedly dissapointed with his lack of getting to the QB. Hopefully he doesn't redeem himself in Chicago.

[steve823]

Bears must not like drafting they keep handing out draft picks

[Partial]

I have a hunch that the DL guy is gonna make him into a star. Dislike.

[Lurker64]

Gaines Adams did kind of suck during his tenure in Tampa. Maybe he can be a player, but the Bears are basically spending a 2nd round pick on the hopes that the magical lightbulb might come on for a player who was drafted high at a position with a high bust rate.

I mean, this guy looked good enough in college to get drafted ahead of Adrian Peterson, and he's gotten them 10 sacks in three years.

[Partial]

Don't they still have Alex Brown and the guy from Alabama Mark Anderson as well as Ogunleye? They're stacked at end. This guy will be a very good situational pass rusher I would have to think.

He has 13.5 sacks in his two years in the league prior to this, so I don't buy those stats, Lurker.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bears-buccaneerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

[HarveyWallbangers]

He has 13.5 sacks in his two years in the league prior to this, so I don't buy those stats, Lurker.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bears-buccaneerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

Actually, it's 12.5 sacks from your link. Who knows how good he'll be, but a 2nd round draft pick for a situational pass rusher seems a bit much. I'm guessing they are hoping for more. Tells you how much Mark Anderson has fallen off. After getting 12 sacks his rookie year, he has 7 in his last 2 1/4 years.

[Partial]

Sorry, fuzzy math. 6 + 6.5 = 13.5 evidently. In any case, yeah, that is surprising that Anderson dropped off that much as he was very good his rookie year. Show's what talent around you can do, I guess.

That said, I still don't like that they picked this guy up. He's a good athlete and their DL coach is very good in my opinion. I could see this guy being a 10 sack a year guy going forward.

Then again he is from Clemson so he will probably be a bust.

[green_bowl_packer]

Down here in Chicago they're saying Marinelli loved him when he was coach in Detroit (took Calvin Johnson instead), also to push Mark Anderson, and because Ogunleye probably won't be resigned next year since he's 32.

I hope "You can't polish a turd" holds true here, also this takes away ammunition from Bears to make the trade for a WR which they really need (unless they manage to get Michael Clayton from TB too) Keep dumping those picks Chicago.

[3irty1]

Tells you how much Mark Anderson has fallen off. After getting 12 sacks his rookie year, he has 7 in his last 2 1/4 years.

ROIDS!!!!!

[Fritz]

Whatever one thinks of this particular trade, the whole thing demonstrates nicely two opposite ways of thinking about building a team. There is the Thompson style in which draft picks are highly valued for the players those picks will produce, and there is the Angelo style in which picks are a commodity used to buy current players.

I believe after the Cutler trade that Angelo even said something to the effect that since he hasn't done so well drafting he might as well trade picks for established players.

It's an interesting trade from another angle - most times (I think) guys that are drafted high and don't live up to that potential slide way, way down the value scale. Would AJ Hawk garner even so much as a third rounder right now? If those "disappointment" guys get traded - if they don't just get released - my sense is that they don't bring much return.

But for a disappointment to be traded and still get back a second rounder - I think this attests to the difficulty in finding pass rushing DE's.

[Brandon494]

Good trade for the Bears, their pick will be in the 20s and Gaines was the 4th overall pick just 2 years ago. He has not put up big numbers for a #4 overall pick but 12+ sacks in 2 seasons is not that bad.

[pbmax]

I think this attests to the difficulty in finding pass rushing DE's.
Exactly. Its like the left-handed pitching of the NFL.

[Bretsky]

Whatever one thinks of this particular trade, the whole thing demonstrates nicely two opposite ways of thinking about building a team. There is the Thompson style in which draft picks are highly valued for the players those picks will produce, and there is the Angelo style in which picks are a commodity used to buy current players.

I believe after the Cutler trade that Angelo even said something to the effect that since he hasn't done so well drafting he might as well trade picks for established players.

It's an interesting trade from another angle - most times (I think) guys that are drafted high and don't live up to that potential slide way, way down the value scale. Would AJ Hawk garner even so much as a third rounder right now? If those "disappointment" guys get traded - if they don't just get released - my sense is that they don't bring much return.

But for a disappointment to be traded and still get back a second rounder - I think this attests to the difficulty in finding pass rushing DE's.


IMO the way the Vikings versus the Packers were built makes a very interesting analysis as well.

[Rastak]

Whatever one thinks of this particular trade, the whole thing demonstrates nicely two opposite ways of thinking about building a team. There is the Thompson style in which draft picks are highly valued for the players those picks will produce, and there is the Angelo style in which picks are a commodity used to buy current players.

I believe after the Cutler trade that Angelo even said something to the effect that since he hasn't done so well drafting he might as well trade picks for established players.

It's an interesting trade from another angle - most times (I think) guys that are drafted high and don't live up to that potential slide way, way down the value scale. Would AJ Hawk garner even so much as a third rounder right now? If those "disappointment" guys get traded - if they don't just get released - my sense is that they don't bring much return.







But for a disappointment to be traded and still get back a second rounder - I think this attests to the difficulty in finding pass rushing DE's.


IMO the way the Vikings versus the Packers were built makes a very interesting analysis as well.


It is interesting.

Look, the draft is the lifeblood of a franchise and cannot be ignored. I think TT has done a decent job overall of gathering some good players....but they do take time to develop and the you gotta pay them anyway in the end.

Keeping your own is a great idea. Getting young at certain positions is good too.

I'm not super down on how TT operates in the draft but I just don't agree that free agency is some evil franchise killing process. Snyder is a dumbass when it comes to his football team, that why they suck most of the time.

Looking at the Vikings offense starting lineup, here is how the players were aquired. I think the Vikings have accumulated a good bit of talent and it's blended well.


WR - Berrian - FA (They needed a speed playmaker and he fits the bill. He can stretch the field and his YPC ave was around the top of the league last year I think)

WR - Rice - Draft (He's finally coming into his own in year 3. Great hands and good size, should be solid for several years to come)

WR - Harvin - Draft (Exciting playmaker who will be a force for years to come if he stays healthy and keep the off the field stuff to a minimum).

LT - McKinney - Draft (Good but not great LT. Had a rough 2008 but is looking much better in 2009).

LG - Hutchinson - FA (I thought this was a great move. Arguably the best OG in football and many hear thought the money was insane. I never thought it was. Game starts and ends on the OL and DL)

C - Sullivan Draft (They got younger, hope he can fill Birk's shoes, so far he's done ok.)

RG - Herrera Undrafted FA (Diamond in the rough, tough player, plays hard)

RT - Loadholt - Draft (Rookie is holding his own but has lots of room to grow as a pass blocker).

TE - Shiancoe - FA (They needed a TE with some speed to get mismatches and they grabbed a guy who was quick at the combine, was behind a good player on the roster and was coming off his rookie contract. This is the best kind of free agent in my eyes).

RB - Peterson - Draft ( Nothing to say here, AD is AD)

RB - Taylor - FA - ( Same thing as Berrian and Shiancoe, coming off his first contract the Vikings thought he was a guy who was behind another player and hadn't had a chance. This dude can really play)

QB - Favre - FA (Some old dude off the scrap heap)


So they've drafted many of their starters but grabbed guys who were elite (Hutch) or guys coming off their first contracts that had potential.


edit:

Here is how the Vikings 53 man roster was constructed.


Free Agents - 16
Undrafted Free Agents - 9
Trade - 3
Draft - 22
Waivers - 3

[Noodle]

Good points, all, and nice job Ras.

By way of comparison, here's how we got our offensive starters/near starters:

WR - Driver - Draft, 7th Round in 1999
WR - Jennings - Draft, 2nd Round in 2006
TE - Lee - FA in 2005
TE - Finley - Draft, 3rd Round, in 2008
LT - Clifton - Draft, 2nd Round 2000
RT - Tauscher - Draft, 7th Round 2000
RT - Barbre - Draft, 4th Round 2007
LG - Colledge - Draft, 2nd Round 2006
RG - Sitton - Draft, 4th Round 2008
C - Spitz, Draft, 3r Round, 2006
C - Wells, Draft, 7th Round 2004
RB - Grant, Trade 2007
RB - Wynn, Draft 7th Round 2007
FB - Kuhn, Off Waivers (Pitts) 2007
QB - Rodgers, Draft, 1st Round, 2005

It really is striking how young a lot of these guys are, especially on the OL. When Tausch and Cliffy are out, the starters are from the classes of 2004, 2006 (2), 2007 & 2008.

And here's how the Packer 53 was put together

Draft: 36
FA: 9
Trade: 3
UFA: 3 (Woodson, Chillar & Pickett)
Waivers: 2

[Rastak]

Thanks Noodle, does seem to be a different way of doing business looking at the data you posted.

[Administrator]

Great thread. Thanks to noodle and rastak for the effort. It was very educational for me.

[mmmdk]

Great thread. Thanks to noodle and rastak for the effort. It was very educational for me.

This thread has turned from an ugly duckling into a swan :tup:

[Dabaddestbear]

Don't they still have Alex Brown and the guy from Alabama Mark Anderson as well as Ogunleye? They're stacked at end. This guy will be a very good situational pass rusher I would have to think.

He has 13.5 sacks in his two years in the league prior to this, so I don't buy those stats, Lurker.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bears-buccaneerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns
Ogun and Anderson are UFA after this year. It was rumored that JA was going to go after a DE in the 2nd anyway, so I guess this is just like taking a risk on a 2nd rounder but with NFL experience. Just keep in mind that Marinelli has did wonders for the Bears D-linemen since he been there, so maybe he sees something in this guy that Tampa does not(I hope).

All in all a lot of Bear fans are upset at this move, and a lot of Bucs fans are happy, time will tell where this goes.

[Dabaddestbear]

Down here in Chicago they're saying Marinelli loved him when he was coach in Detroit (took Calvin Johnson instead), also to push Mark Anderson, and because Ogunleye probably won't be resigned next year since he's 32.

I hope "You can't polish a turd" holds true here, also this takes away ammunition from Bears to make the trade for a WR which they really need (unless they manage to get Michael Clayton from TB too) Keep dumping those picks Chicago.
have you been paying attention to the Bears WR this year. They have outperformed everyone outside of Chicago expectations. What WR was on the trade market that would have been good for the Bears? But I am surprised that Detroit did not try to get one.

[Rastak]

I think on the surface it's an ok deal for the Bears. We'll see how it turns out.

[Badgerinmaine]

Someone should post how the Lions were built as a negative counterexample. :lol:

[esoxx]

To each his own. I don't think this transaction changes the Bears fate at the end of the day.

[Partial]

Don't they still have Alex Brown and the guy from Alabama Mark Anderson as well as Ogunleye? They're stacked at end. This guy will be a very good situational pass rusher I would have to think.

He has 13.5 sacks in his two years in the league prior to this, so I don't buy those stats, Lurker.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bears-buccaneerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns
Ogun and Anderson are UFA after this year. It was rumored that JA was going to go after a DE in the 2nd anyway, so I guess this is just like taking a risk on a 2nd rounder but with NFL experience. Just keep in mind that Marinelli has did wonders for the Bears D-linemen since he been there, so maybe he sees something in this guy that Tampa does not(I hope).

All in all a lot of Bear fans are upset at this move, and a lot of Bucs fans are happy, time will tell where this goes.

Yeah I think it's a very good deal for the Bears. This guy has the athleticism to be a very good player in the league.