What are the Packers' Needs?

[Deputy Nutz]

The last 5 games give a small peep hole to what this team needs for future success. Maybe they have those needs on the roster already, maybe they have two days to trade for those needs, maybe they have to wait until 2010 for free agent market to open up( :shock: ) or the NFL Draft in April.

It is never too early to determine what this team needs.

Offense
1. Tackle, whether it is left or right this team needs some help. Signing Mark Tauscher is a step in the right direction, but he is no longer a long term fit for this team. Clifton is all but done on this team as well, so going into 2010 the Packers will look to have two new starters on the bookends for the first time in 10 years. The questions are, whether Barbre is going to be the solution on the left and whether TJ Lang is more than just another Tony Moll. Amazingly enough Thompson has never spent more than a second round pick on an offensive linemen, so if the Packer are looking to improve their roster in 2010, most likely it will be with more low round draft picks.

2. Running back, Grant has yet to show the same ability that he demonstrated in 2007. He has yet to improve on his first season in Green Bay and at this point looks more like the street free agent that he was then the diamond in the rough of 2007. It is really hard to determine if he is the long term answer at running back that Thompson thought he could be when signing him to an extension in the summer of 2008. The only other player with any future in Green bay is Brandon Jackson. If Jackson could stay healthy he could at least give a base line on his ability at the position. But he has had injuries his last 3 years that has cost him games. He is as unproven as the day he has stepped off the plan from Nebraska.

Defense

1. Safety, Collins is still unsigned for the 2010 season and after. Collins is a strong talent and deserves a long term contract from the Packers. Outside of Collins the Packers have had a turnstyle at the strong safety position for the last two years. With no roster depth at the position the Packers will either have to trade to upgrade or spend some draft picks on a possible solution at the SS position. Bigby and Martin are not reliable solutions to the position at this point.

2. Inside Linebacker, Hawk isn't the answer at this point considering he played less than 20 plays against the lions. Nick Barnett could solidify one of the spots now that he has adjusted to his reconstructed knee, but the questions about his toughness and ability to shed block and make tackles in front of him instead of chasing from behind is still a matter of issue. Brandon Chillar is overated at this point, he is average in coverage, he hasn't made a play blitzing since week 1, and he gets engulfed at the point of attack, that is if he is even around the point of attack. Bishop isn't even considered an option at this point, which is too bad because he could be a viable run stopper and blitzer. Most likely neither Chillar or Hawk will be on the team in 2010. Hawk makes too much money to only play 15 snaps a game, and Chillar can be replaced by someone more well rounded. Barnett seems to be entrenched as the starter for long term. It is unlikely Thompson will trade at this point, but the position will have to be upgraded in 2010 most likely in the draft.

[pbmax]

...Amazingly enough Thompson has never spent more than a second round pick on an offensive linemen, so if the Packer are looking to improve their roster in 2010, most likely it will be with more low round draft picks.

2 Time Super Bowl Offensive Line
Timmerman 7th round
Taylor 1st Round
Winters 10th Round Plan B Free Agent
Dotson Round 3
Brown Round 5
Wilkerson Round 2
* John Michels Round 1
** Ross Verba Round 1

Later Wolf OL Draft Picks
Mike Wahle 1st (wrong 2nd round supplemental)

* Couple of starts then benched
** 97 Only and Backup
Seems we go better mileage out of the lower rounds.

[hoosier]

...Amazingly enough Thompson has never spent more than a second round pick on an offensive linemen, so if the Packer are looking to improve their roster in 2010, most likely it will be with more low round draft picks.

2 Time Super Bowl Offensive Line
Timmerman 7th round
Taylor 1st Round
Winters 10th Round Plan B Free Agent
Dotson Round 3
Brown Round 5
Wilkerson Round 2
* John Michels Round 1
** Ross Verba Round 1

Later Wolf OL Draft Picks
Mike Wahle 1st

* Couple of starts then benched
** 97 Only and Backup
Seems we go better mileage out of the lower rounds.

The major difference between the 1995-97 model and the current model is coaching. This staff does not seem to be able to develop OL talent the way Holmy's staff did. I'm no great judge of football skills, but the Packers have way too many big guys who are showing flashes of talent but failing to put together a consistent performance every week. Colledge, Sitton and Barbre come to mind. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that trio was every bit as talented as Aaron Taylor, Adam Timmerman and Earl Dotson were in 1996.

[red]

i'd say barnett is vastly overrated

[Deputy Nutz]

...Amazingly enough Thompson has never spent more than a second round pick on an offensive linemen, so if the Packer are looking to improve their roster in 2010, most likely it will be with more low round draft picks.

2 Time Super Bowl Offensive Line
Timmerman 7th round
Taylor 1st Round
Winters 10th Round Plan B Free Agent
Dotson Round 3
Brown Round 5
Wilkerson Round 2
* John Michels Round 1
** Ross Verba Round 1

Later Wolf OL Draft Picks
Mike Wahle 1st

* Couple of starts then benched
** 97 Only and Backup
Seems we go better mileage out of the lower rounds.

Sure but if you want to find a left tackle without trading or free agency that has the ability to step in and be a shut down tackle then most likely you are going to have to spend a high draft pick on him. That is all I am saying. It is not like Thompson hasn't put the effort in to draft offensive linemen, several in the first 4 rounds. Spitz was a third, Colledge a second, and Sitton was a fourth rounder I believe.

Colledge, Sitton, and Spitz are good football players, it is just the depth on this roster on offensive line was not as good as people thought this pre season, in fact it is pretty bad right now.

[jklowan]

I'd say we need

Offensive lineman, RT & LT
Safety
Running Back
Defensive end

That's a lot to do in one draft, hopefully TT can find a few free agents

[sharpe1027]

More games against the Lions at home.

[Scott Campbell]

Amazingly enough Thompson has never spent more than a second round pick on an offensive linemen.......


I don't think its nearly that amazing when you consider that Thompson has never spent more than a 2nd round pick on a S, CB, RB, FB, TE or a DE either. He's only had 5 first round picks.

[Scott Campbell]

2. Running back, Grant has yet to show the same ability that he demonstrated in 2007. He has yet to improve on his first season in Green Bay and at this point looks more like the street free agent that he was then the diamond in the rough of 2007. It is really hard to determine if he is the long term answer at running back that Thompson thought he could be when signing him to an extension in the summer of 2008. The only other player with any future in Green bay is Brandon Jackson. If Jackson could stay healthy he could at least give a base line on his ability at the position. But he has had injuries his last 3 years that has cost him games. He is as unproven as the day he has stepped off the plan from Nebraska.



I was guilty of being on the Ryan Grant bandwagon. He's just not the same guy. I'm not sure we have the answer at RB currently on this roster. We need one ASAP.

[pbmax]

2. Running back, Grant has yet to show the same ability that he demonstrated in 2007. He has yet to improve on his first season in Green Bay and at this point looks more like the street free agent that he was then the diamond in the rough of 2007. It is really hard to determine if he is the long term answer at running back that Thompson thought he could be when signing him to an extension in the summer of 2008. The only other player with any future in Green bay is Brandon Jackson. If Jackson could stay healthy he could at least give a base line on his ability at the position. But he has had injuries his last 3 years that has cost him games. He is as unproven as the day he has stepped off the plan from Nebraska.



I was guilty of being on the Ryan Grant bandwagon. He's just not the same guy. I'm not sure we have the answer at RB currently on this roster. We need one ASAP.
The run into the space just vacated by a pulling Colledge was a complete brain meltdown. He looks lost.

[Tony Oday]

OL coach and go back to power running.

SS that can stay on the field.

RB that can run behind the O line...not a huge fan of Grant because what little space there is he seems to miss.

CB. face it Harris and Woodson need to be replaced in three years at max so we need so talent to develop...unless we want to spend a 1st rounder.

That is all I can think of. I really like our LBs and think they can be great in this system

[bobblehead]

...Amazingly enough Thompson has never spent more than a second round pick on an offensive linemen, so if the Packer are looking to improve their roster in 2010, most likely it will be with more low round draft picks.

2 Time Super Bowl Offensive Line
Timmerman 7th round
Taylor 1st Round
Winters 10th Round Plan B Free Agent
Dotson Round 3
Brown Round 5
Wilkerson Round 2
* John Michels Round 1
** Ross Verba Round 1

Later Wolf OL Draft Picks
Mike Wahle 1st

* Couple of starts then benched
** 97 Only and Backup
Seems we go better mileage out of the lower rounds.

As I recall that looks like the line that left BF addicted to vicodin.

Wolf struggle for an LT early on. He drafted Michels, Verba, Wahle, and Clifton in the 1st and 2nd round cuz he knew how important it was.

TT is going to have to step up and find the next LT for us cuz they do not come easy in this league.

Other needs...we need depth in the secondary. I agree Barnett is coming around now, but hawk looks ok at best. He probably rotates with Chillar for another season. Seriously, why wasn't Bishop getting snaps early in the 3rd quarter?? Either show me he isn't ready to play or show me he is...I'm dying for the truth.

I think we can replace Grant with Jackson. Not positive, but again, until you try you won't know.

How Babre hasn't been replaced by some sophomore from Green Bay Preble is beyond me. Not sure if we have the answer on the roster for that either, but unless Babre has a Nick Collins flipping of the switch he ain't the guy.

Overall we need to improve: Secondary Depth, RB, and both tackles.

[Lurker64]

I would go into the draft targeting (in order of priority):

1) A left tackle.
2) A strong safety
3) A running back

Later round picks should be spent on developing depth for both DE and OLB.

Fortunately, the talent pool for the draft breaks pretty well for us since this is an excellent year for Safeties and Defensive Tackles, and the threat of a rookie wage scale could potentially usher hordes of talented Junior and RS sophomore RBs into the draft.

[Brandon494]

I would go into the draft targeting (in order of priority):

1) A left tackle.
2) A strong safety
3) A running back

Later round picks should be spent on developing depth for both DE and OLB.

Fortunately, the talent pool for the draft breaks pretty well for us since this is an excellent year for Safeties and Defensive Tackles, and the threat of a rookie wage scale could potentially usher hordes of talented Junior and RS sophomore RBs into the draft.

Excellent year for tackles also.

[wist43]

There are more needs than can be addressed in one draft, that's for sure.

TT's philosophy is to build from within, so I'm sure he's planning on some of those "needs" being addressed that way.

He's going to have to assume that Lang, Barbre, and Giowhosit will solve the OT problems; and, I'm sure he's looking at Williams as the successor to Harris.

But there are a lot of other holes to fill... the switch to a 3-4 has all but mandated a big turnover in front seven personnel. Montgomery and Kampman are all guarenteed to be gone next year. Need upgrades just about everywhere at LB - Barnett needs to be shown the door, Hawk is average and maxed out, Kampmans spot needs to be filled, and Poppinga isn't going to do much from scrimmage. I like Jones and Bishop... maybe TT is hopeful those guys step into the starting lineup next year???

Add to that list, as some have mentioned - S and RB, and you have a pretty hefty shopping list there. As I said, more than can be filled in one draft, that's for sure.

So, assuming we're not a contender this year... and more "building/rebuilding" next year... do we have a shot at making a run in 2011??? All the while maintaining our title as the "leagues youngest team".

[red]

so thats where we're at now?

its no longer, wait till next year

we're now at, wait until the year after next

[Noodle]

so thats where we're at now?

its no longer, wait till next year

we're now at, wait until the year after next

Not a bad strategy if you're a GM, as it ensures continued employment for an even longer horizon.

That TT is one savy bugger.

[Waldo]

#1a - RB
#1b - OT (depends on how this season plays out, if Lang isn't a long term answer at LT, than a LT, if both Lang and Barbre work out, a swing guy with developmental upside (late 3 - 4th), if there are still questions but Lang and Barbre are workable at LT and RT, then a higher swing T (like DC was on draft day)).

#3 - CB
#4 - OLB
#5 - S

#6 - DE

[red]

i've got an answer

what do the packers need

Marcus McNeil, he'll be a free agent after this season, and the chargers have a lot of guys they have to resign. he might make it to the open market

he would be a dream come true

[pbmax]

#1a - RB
#1b - OT (depends on how this season plays out, if Lang isn't a long term answer at LT, than a LT, if both Lang and Barbre work out, a swing guy with developmental upside (late 3 - 4th), if there are still questions but Lang and Barbre are workable at LT and RT, then a higher swing T (like DC was on draft day)).

#3 - CB
#4 - OLB
#5 - S

#6 - DE
I think between Lang and Barbre we might find a RT. Its very early, but Barbre has settled down and Lang stepped in reasonably well at LT but I think physically he is a better match for RT. I doubt we have a Left Tackle.

[MadScientist]

#1 need is an OL coach who can coach. It doesn't matter who draft as RB or LT, as long as Campen is coaching, the OL won't be any good and the RB will have no where to run.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I'd like to see what comes of the young tackles on the roster.

My biggest frustration is discipline. The penalties are hurting. I understand letting some aggressive ones go, but its the lazy ones that kill me.

I believe Wahle was a 2nd round or later pick, not a 1st.

I think a lot of the LB's will come from within. CM is going to be big time. Unfortunate we'll never get the value out of Hawk. Barnett showed some flashes too.

I'm really liking the play of Jolly too. Big man with a motor.

[pbmax]

I'd like to see what comes of the young tackles on the roster.

My biggest frustration is discipline. The penalties are hurting. I understand letting some aggressive ones go, but its the lazy ones that kill me.

I believe Wahle was a 2nd round or later pick, not a 1st.

I think a lot of the LB's will come from within. CM is going to be big time. Unfortunate we'll never get the value out of Hawk. Barnett showed some flashes too.

I'm really liking the play of Jolly too. Big man with a motor.
Right. Wahle was second round in the supplemental draft. I am having trouble reading charts this week.

[Waldo]

#1a - RB
#1b - OT (depends on how this season plays out, if Lang isn't a long term answer at LT, than a LT, if both Lang and Barbre work out, a swing guy with developmental upside (late 3 - 4th), if there are still questions but Lang and Barbre are workable at LT and RT, then a higher swing T (like DC was on draft day)).

#3 - CB
#4 - OLB
#5 - S

#6 - DE
I think between Lang and Barbre we might find a RT. Its very early, but Barbre has settled down and Lang stepped in reasonably well at LT but I think physically he is a better match for RT. I doubt we have a Left Tackle.

You never know. Lang's biggest weakness is his short arms. Nobody has identified another good reason. He has LT feet. He is strong enough. He is athletic enough. He is big enough. He has it upstairs.

There are 3 LT's that I know of with arms no longer than Lang's. Jeff Backus, Jordan Gross, and Matt Light.

It is much more a given, if he had 36" arms nobody would doubt that he is our LT of the future. At 32", it could work, it has worked before, even at a PB level. Colledge's arms are no longer than Lang's.

Short armed guys need two things to really make up for it. Athleticism and quick feet, they have to be able to move to make up for the lack of extra length; and strength and balance, when a long armed DE delivers a punch to their pads that they can't counter due to a length advantage, they have to be stout enough to take the punch and have the balance to not get thrown out of position by it.

I think too much emphasis is put on arm length. Lang has everything else that you would look for in a LT, and the qualities that can make up for a lack of length.

[Fritz]

Look, if arm length is the drawback, can't they fix that? There must be some plastic surgeon out there who can add a few inches. My former father in law had his penis lengthened; surely the same can be done with a guy's arms?

As for other needs, having watched Grant look like he's running in mud and catching with mittens, it seems to me that that has become the #1 need.

Second would be an offensive tackle, whether lang and barbre work out or not. These guys take years to develop and who knows what injuries could occur - not that I'm jinxing cuz I'm not.

To me, third would be safety. Underwood and Lee are understudies at the corners; we have no one of that potential at safety behind Bigby and Collins.

Then defensive end. Never enough of dem guys.

[red]

I'd like to see what comes of the young tackles on the roster.

My biggest frustration is discipline. The penalties are hurting. I understand letting some aggressive ones go, but its the lazy ones that kill me.

I believe Wahle was a 2nd round or later pick, not a 1st.

I think a lot of the LB's will come from within. CM is going to be big time. Unfortunate we'll never get the value out of Hawk. Barnett showed some flashes too.

I'm really liking the play of Jolly too. Big man with a motor.
Right. Wahle was second round in the supplemental draft. I am having trouble reading charts this week.

maybe its time we take you out behind the old wood shed

[denverYooper]

#1a - RB
#1b - OT (depends on how this season plays out, if Lang isn't a long term answer at LT, than a LT, if both Lang and Barbre work out, a swing guy with developmental upside (late 3 - 4th), if there are still questions but Lang and Barbre are workable at LT and RT, then a higher swing T (like DC was on draft day)).

#3 - CB
#4 - OLB
#5 - S

#6 - DE
I think between Lang and Barbre we might find a RT. Its very early, but Barbre has settled down and Lang stepped in reasonably well at LT but I think physically he is a better match for RT. I doubt we have a Left Tackle.

You never know. Lang's biggest weakness is his short arms. Nobody has identified another good reason. He has LT feet. He is strong enough. He is athletic enough. He is big enough. He has it upstairs.

There are 3 LT's that I know of with arms no longer than Lang's. Jeff Backus, Jordan Gross, and Matt Light.

It is much more a given, if he had 36" arms nobody would doubt that he is our LT of the future. At 32", it could work, it has worked before, even at a PB level. Colledge's arms are no longer than Lang's.

Short armed guys need two things to really make up for it. Athleticism and quick feet, they have to be able to move to make up for the lack of extra length; and strength and balance, when a long armed DE delivers a punch to their pads that they can't counter due to a length advantage, they have to be stout enough to take the punch and have the balance to not get thrown out of position by it.

I think too much emphasis is put on arm length. Lang has everything else that you would look for in a LT, and the qualities that can make up for a lack of length.

I think he's got the drive and the smarts to potentially make it work.

He seems to really want it every time he's called on. When he was called into the Minny game, he sprinted out there. He battled Allen, who tricked him a few times. But Lang got some shots in and gave him hell, too. IIRC, He had Allen hogtied on the Nelson touchdown. A back came over to help but from what I saw, Lang had him handled pretty well.

He finishes plays well. I don't see him quit blocking. He just about drove his guy out of Lambeau on Grant's 22 yard run. And he made the tackle on the Rodgers INT vs. the Lions.

Add to that the fact that he's getting public coach love for his work ethic and that he comes across as very sure of himself and he's officially become interesting as a possible LT.

Will he be? I don't know. Maybe they draft their future LT and he battles it out for RT next year. I put his quote in my sig because he's something to be excited about on the line. I think at the least he'll be a hell of a player for us.

[retailguy]

Redskins signed Levi Jones today.