Jim Bates

[HarveyWallbangers]

Chris Havel column: As NFL starts up, Bates 'starting to miss it'

The reality of the situation is beginning to sink in.

For the first time in 37 years, Jim Bates isn't spending late July gearing up to coach another football season.

"I'm starting to miss it now," he said. "I've always enjoyed the preseason and training camp. It's a grind, but it's a fun time, too. You're putting in a system, the players are coming together and there's the challenge of it all. This time of year everyone is full of optimism and anything's still possible."

Bates, 60, was in serious negotiations with an NFL team about a coaching position as recently as last week. Bates declined to offer details, saying he's preparing to make the most of his season away from coaching.

His long-range plan is to study the NFL inside and out, consider his options and be prepared to return to coaching next season. His short-term goal is to travel, get in tip-top shape and enjoy the free time while it lasts.

He plans to accept Lloyd Carr's invitation to attend a Michigan game in Ann Arbor.

"I grew up 60 miles away (in Pontiac, Mich.) but in all my coaching experience and travel I've never been to The Big House," he said.

"I also plan to take the boat ride, tailgate on the river and attend the Tennessee-Florida game."

Bates, who coached at Tennessee (in 1968) and Florida (in 1990), also plans to attend several Denver Broncos games. His son Jeremy is an assistant coach under Mike Shanahan. His other son, James, recently moved to Fort Collins, Colo., where he'll be the TV play-by-play announcer for the Mountain West Conference. He'll also host a cable TV show there.

Meantime, Bates can't help but think about what might have been. The defensive coordinator helped the Packers rank seventh in yards allowed in 2005, but GM Ted Thompson chose Mike McCarthy to replace Mike Sherman as the Packers' head coach.

Bates pursued other jobs to no avail. He said he has no hard feelings.

"From what I've seen with the addition of several players, you can't help but feel optimistic about the defense," he said of the Packers.

"Last year, we got off to a good start, and now they're bringing in some playmakers. (A.J.) Hawk should be a playmaker. (Charles) Woodson's a playmaker. (Ryan) Pickett is very athletic and he's a hard worker. I see the defense as a much, much stronger unit, and I see more confidence within the unit.

"They're fired up, and they should be. There's going to be some quality depth, and it should be interesting to see players fight for positions during training camp. I also think Bob (Sanders) is going to do a terrific job, as will (defensive line coach) Robert Nunn."

Bates and his wife, Beverly, still live in Oneida.

"We don't go out a whole lot, but when we do, it's been great," he said.

"The Green Bay Packers have special fans. This is a unique place, and I feel fortunate to have had a chance to coach here."

[KYPack]

I can't believe nobody hired this guy. He painted himself in a corner by insisting on a HC job. I wish he would've stayed our DC. You can hear him wishing he would've taken the DC job here. With the new players, he's have 'em going at a fast pace.

[MadtownPacker]

Bates can go to hell. I was thrilled when Sherm hired him and the D was MUCH better last year. Bates doesnt get any sympathy from me, he had a job. M3 would have let him run the D how he wanted so he would have almost been a HC or as close as he is gonna get.

[Partial]

Bates can go to hell. I was thrilled when Sherm hired him and the D was MUCH better last year. Bates doesnt get any sympathy from me, he had a job. M3 would have let him run the D how he wanted so he would have almost been a HC or as close as he is gonna get.

It would not surprise me at all if he comes back as a assistant coordinator under Sanders next year. I don't think that year off and another year older is going to help his case for a head coaching job. He lives in oneida so he obviously likes Wisconsin. Probably just a pipe dream, but man that would be sweet!

[woodbuck27]

A man's EGO . . .

can be a powerful thing. . .

either assist him. . .

or send him to the ashes.

At the time when he decided to leave we may have speculated alot more than the actual fact of the matter warranted.

Maybe? Jim Bates was simply - flat out pissed that T2 didn't offer hin the HC position?

I really liked this fella and I hope he can recover somewhere. He certrainly played it - all in . . .

but he's not running to the soup kitchen, so we don't have to feel too sorry for Jim.

[Noodle]

Good article, thanks Harvey.

Why harsh on Bates, Mad? The dude had a dream of being an HC, he wasn't getting any younger, this was his shot, so I suspect he indicated to the Packers, look, pick me or say goodbye.

Maybe not a smart tactic, but I can certainly understand it, being an old guy myself with increasingly limited opportunities. You young bucks can afford to be all "what the heck"; wait 'til desperation and disappointment take bites out of your ass.

Anyway, I digress. I dig how Bates is being supportive of the team and not cracking on any of the coaches or players. I'm thinking, as I always did, that he's a class guy. And I wish he did get that HC gig.

[woodbuck27]

Good article, thanks Harvey.

Why harsh on Bates, Mad? The dude had a dream of being an HC, he wasn't getting any younger, this was his shot, so I suspect he indicated to the Packers, look, pick me or say goodbye.

Maybe not a smart tactic, but I can certainly understand it, being an old guy myself with increasingly limited opportunities. You young bucks can afford to be all "what the heck"; wait 'til desperation and disappointment take bites out of your ass.

Anyway, I digress. I dig how Bates is being supportive of the team and not cracking on any of the coaches or players. I'm thinking, as I always did, that he's a class guy. And I wish he did get that HC gig.

Certainly Noodle.

Alot of us were on the Jim Bates Bandwagon, as it appeared as a logical move for OUR immediate benefit.

T2 is appearing to me to be somewhat of a mystery man that certainly wants to run his own ship and be in total control.

Mike Sherman had a stubborn streak in him, but that doesn't translate to being the tough hombre that Jim Bates appeared to me to be.

Maybe as a HC, Jim Bates would have been too strong willed . .

for T2's learning curve ?

[Spaulding]

Noodle, I agree. What's not to like about Bates other than his age? The guy obviously is a motivator on defense and his ability to take little talent and turn in a pretty good defense (i.e. the Pack of 2005) is downright amazing. Given what we have this year I can only imagine how things would have been.

Initially I was angry that Thompson hired M3 over Bates and didn't understand the logic other than Thompson wanted to go young. Since that time though I like M3's approach (versus Childress who I view as a Marine sergeant and control freak) and am somewhat optimistic that things will pan out.

Ideally yeah, Bates would have come back as DC and we'd have a legitimate shot at being a top 5 defense this year with the additions on paper but who knows, Sanders may be the man as well.

I wish Jim Bates nothing but the best and am damn happy he came through Green Bay on his tour of coaching. He is in my opinion what a coach should be. A flat out motivator and so passionate that it bleeds on the field. Lombardi comes to mind just thinking about it.

Who knows, if M3 flops or the defense greatly regresses we may see him again next year. Not that I want that to happen (I honestly think we're going to make nice strides this year) but then again the Rhodes experience failed miserably and nobody saw that coming.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It would not surprise me at all if he comes back as a assistant coordinator under Sanders next year.

I'd be less surprised if Mike Ditka came to G.B as an assistant coordinator!

It's funny, all the talk about Jim Bates, and what is his Packer legacy? One season on a 4-12 team. He will barely be a footnote in Packer lore.

I lost respect for Bates when he stomped out of town. We expect players to deal with disappointment and keep-on-keepin-on, why are fans are so forgiving of ego-driven coaches? Compare how the fans jumped on Mark Roman this spring for grumbling!

[Partial]

It would not surprise me at all if he comes back as a assistant coordinator under Sanders next year.

I'd be less surprised if Mike Ditka came to G.B as an assistant coordinator!

It's funny, all the talk about Jim Bates, and what is his Packer legacy? One season on a 4-12 team. He will barely be a footnote in Packer lore.

I lost respect for Bates when he stomped out of town. We expect players to deal with disappointment and keep-on-keepin-on, why are fans are so forgiving of ego-driven coaches? Compare how the fans jumped on Mark Roman this spring for grumbling!

'Cause he's historically been successful and he was an idiot who overvalued himself. I think he has learned the lesson that he won't ever be an HC and go coach close to home as an assistant and live the life.

[BallHawk]

When TT was going through the candidates for HC, I was a very strong supporter of Bates. He brought Charisma to the team and we improved as a defense. One of the dumbest things I said was HE brought this defense to a #7 ranking. First off, he didn't do it the players did. He was a good coach, and there is little doubt in my mind that we wouldn't of been as good without him. But as we all know, this defense was not a #7 defense last year. The more I see of McCarthy the more I like him. Whether this defense will be as good remains to be seen.

[Partial]

When TT was going through the candidates for HC, I was a very strong supporter of Bates. He brought Charisma to the team and we improved as a defense. One of the dumbest things I said was HE brought this defense to a #7 ranking. First off, he didn't do it the players did. He was a good coach, and there is little doubt in my mind that we wouldn't of been as good without him. But as we all know, this defense was not a #7 defense last year. The more I see of McCarthy the more I like him. Whether this defense will be as good remains to be seen.

I think the defense was overrated by the news and underrated by the knowledgeable. They were much improved no doubt, and they played very, very well at times. KGB was the entire reason they couldn't stop the run imo. Get that cat outta there, and I bet they are top 5 this year. Yes, the homer in me may be showing a bit, but I think we're gonna have a damn good defense.

[woodbuck27]

When TT was going through the candidates for HC, I was a very strong supporter of Bates. He brought Charisma to the team and we improved as a defense. One of the dumbest things I said was HE brought this defense to a #7 ranking. First off, he didn't do it the players did. He was a good coach, and there is little doubt in my mind that we wouldn't of been as good without him. But as we all know, this defense was not a #7 defense last year. The more I see of McCarthy the more I like him. Whether this defense will be as good remains to be seen.

I see alot more in the personnel upgrades that T2 brought to OUR "D" and we'll see improvement over last season.

It's really a double edged sword here, as we need to get a real improvement in OUR Offence and that means that the opposition will test OUR secondary more.

The questions I have on OUR "D":

Will Charles Woodson and Al Harris be ready for that challenge? If the "O" improves. Teams will certainly go to the air more against us.

Will Marquand Manuel be recovered from injury enough to displace Mark Roman?

Is Ryan Pickett the answer, or an upgrade over Grady Jackson?

Will Michael Montgomery or Kenny Peterson step up his game to offset the limitations of KGB on running downs?

Can Aaron Kampman take his play up another notch?

Where is Ahmad Carroll's head this season?

Do we get the best Defensive Backs and cut the chaff, to provide real depth behind Al Harris and Charles Woodson?

I want to see dog fights in TC, all over the field by position. To see everyone have to fight to really deserve to be on the Packers - in terms of skill, attitude and leadership.

[Noodle]

I lost respect for Bates when he stomped out of town. We expect players to deal with disappointment and keep-on-keepin-on, why are fans are so forgiving of ego-driven coaches? Compare how the fans jumped on Mark Roman this spring for grumbling!

Ah, you're just a crotch-sniffing, leg-humping, lap dog with no understanding of pride or dignity.

Regardless, you make an interesting comparison to players. But I think I'm being consistent. I didn't begrudge Nall leaving (ok, getting shoved out the door) given that he was not going to get his shot, and I feel the same way about any other player who thinks he's being held back unfairly.

If you think you can get your shot elsewhere, then by all means go, and I won't have a bad thing to say about it. It's the American Friggin' Way, after all, to uproot and go for greener pastures. If Roman was saying play me or trade me, then I wouldn't have begrudged him that, though I suspect others would. What I don't dig is guys who aren't starters who stay on the team and bitch about it.

Bates took his shot, and for whatever reason, decided he couldn't stay. Now my take has been that TT should have handled the situation better and shown a lot more love to the guy once the decision to go with M3 was made. But that's another thread.

[Guiness]

I'm not sure why he handled it as he did, and I'm bet he's sorry he proceeded that way.

He was obviously upset at not getting the job. However, instead of quitting, he could've asked permission to talk to other teams about HC jobs. Teams don't generally (are the even allowed to?) stand in the way of someone moving for a better position.

So he could've kept the DC job, and shopped around a bit. But instead, he got huffy about it, and left. His choice, and I'm sure many would've acted the same, figuring there was not future in GB.

[BallHawk]

Will Charles Woodson and Al Harris be ready for that challenge? If the "O" improves. Teams will certainly go to the air more against us.

As long as they can stay healthy, Yes.

Will Marquand Manuel be recovered from injury enough to displace Mark Roman?

Who can't displace Mark Roman? I think he will.

Is Ryan Pickett the answer, or an upgrade over Grady Jackson?

I expect big things from Pickett this year. He's just as good as Grady, just more fit and younger.

Will Michael Montgomery or Kenny Peterson step up his game to offset the limitations of KGB on running downs?

I'd have to say I have more faith in Peterson, though I would not be surprised to see Montgomery contribute.

Can Aaron Kampman take his play up another notch?

No question. Yes

Where is Ahmad Carroll's head this season?

I think the better question would be where are his hands?

Do we get the best Defensive Backs and cut the chaff, to provide real depth behind Al Harris and Charles Woodson?

I like Blackmon a lot. Hawkins is a question mark, but I think we'll be OK.

[Joemailman]

I can't believe nobody hired this guy. He painted himself in a corner by insisting on a HC job. I wish he would've stayed our DC. You can hear him wishing he would've taken the DC job here. With the new players, he's have 'em going at a fast pace.


I guess there weren't a lot of head coaches who wanted to hire a DC who 2 years in a row walked out because they wouldn't make him the head coach.

[MadtownPacker]

Why harsh on Bates, Mad? The dude had a dream of being an HC, he wasn't getting any younger, this was his shot, so I suspect he indicated to the Packers, look, pick me or say goodbye.

Maybe not a smart tactic, but I can certainly understand it, being an old guy myself with increasingly limited opportunities. You young bucks can afford to be all "what the heck"; wait 'til desperation and disappointment take bites out of your ass.

Anyway, I digress. I dig how Bates is being supportive of the team and not cracking on any of the coaches or players. I'm thinking, as I always did, that he's a class guy. And I wish he did get that HC gig.
We are hardest on those we love most. :mrgreen:

I have no problem with him attempting to get a HC job but for him to just up and quit when he didnt get the Packers job was BS. He had a good thing going in GB, a fat contract and would likely have had complete control of the D. A dream is one thing, being pigheaded is another.

[woodbuck27]

" Bates took his shot, and for whatever reason, decided he couldn't stay. Now my take has been that TT should have handled the situation better and shown a lot more love to the guy once the decision to go with M3 was made. But that's another thread." Noodle

Noodle. We'll have to wait to read - Ted Thompson's -

" The TRUTH in Green Bay "- one day.

[woodbuck27]

Why harsh on Bates, Mad? The dude had a dream of being an HC, he wasn't getting any younger, this was his shot, so I suspect he indicated to the Packers, look, pick me or say goodbye.

Maybe not a smart tactic, but I can certainly understand it, being an old guy myself with increasingly limited opportunities. You young bucks can afford to be all "what the heck"; wait 'til desperation and disappointment take bites out of your ass.

Anyway, I digress. I dig how Bates is being supportive of the team and not cracking on any of the coaches or players. I'm thinking, as I always did, that he's a class guy. And I wish he did get that HC gig.
We are hardest on those we love most. :mrgreen:

I have no problem with him attempting to get a HC job but for him to just up and quit when he didnt get the Packers job was BS. He had a good thing going in GB, a fat contract and would likely have had complete control of the D. A dream is one thing, being pigheaded is another.


Mad. This is a difficult topic or Issue in OUR recent past to speculate on as I see it.

Undeniably, Jim Bates has a strong personality, and I'm sure his ego had alot to do with his departure - when we certainly needed his strength to come to the forefront for US !

I cannot find against your disappointment in Jim Bates.

Today in Bob Sanders we TRUST. A differnt man - the same plan with a few twists and better players to work with, as I see it today.

GO PACKERS !

[Harlan Huckleby]

Will Michael Montgomery or Kenny Peterson step up his game to offset the limitations of KGB on running downs?

I'd have to say I have more faith in Peterson, though I would not be surprised to see Montgomery contribute.


The reason why Peterson showed much improvement last year is that they played him almost entirely at tackle instead of end. That clearly is his position. It is a shame they didn't find another DE for the rotation - although perhaps one of the no-name guys will make the roster.

[woodbuck27]

Will Michael Montgomery or Kenny Peterson step up his game to offset the limitations of KGB on running downs?

I'd have to say I have more faith in Peterson, though I would not be surprised to see Montgomery contribute.


The reason why Peterson showed much improvement last year is that they played him almost entirely at tackle instead of end. That clearly is his position. It is a shame they didn't find another DE for the rotation - although perhaps one of the no-name guys will make the roster.

Wist43 has been trying his BEST to hammer just that point home to us.

We must improve OUR QB pressures, plug the middle with OUR DL and exert inrense pressure on the opposition's QB with a better Rush.Too often the oppositions RB finds a huge hole between their tackles and the middle of their OL. We have to force the run wide and then the quality we perceive in OUR LBer's will be most effective.

This year on Defence with OUR limitations at DE. We have to play it all in - and not so much put that short gain up there for the pure taking. I want to see overall a conservative "D" as we saw last season but more frontal attack on behalf of the CB blitz and LBer drive through the hole in the middle.

I want to see the swarming tackle come back ( an all men to the ball approach and attitude) and hits I can hear all the way up here in Canuck Land. :mrgreen:

I want to see the word's - exciting and fear - put back into OUR Defence.

[gureski]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Packers are still paying Bates. If Sanders views him as a mentor of some form and if Bates really wants to, what's to stop him from coming back and taking over the D-coordinator duties in G.B.? Sanders only got the job because Bates didn't want to come back.

Time heals wounds and that might be what Bates needed. You never know. All I'm saying is that he's being paid right now to be a D-coordinator. He's under contract. He's just not being asked to show up for work. If they worked out their problems, he could show up tomorrow and take over the defense.

[woodbuck27]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Packers are still paying Bates. If Sanders views him as a mentor of some form and if Bates really wants to, what's to stop him from coming back and taking over the D-coordinator duties in G.B.? Sanders only got the job because Bates didn't want to come back.

Time heals wounds and that might be what Bates needed. You never know. All I'm saying is that he's being paid right now to be a D-coordinator. He's under contract. He's just not being asked to show up for work. If they worked out their problems, he could show up tomorrow and take over the defense.

guerski:

Your post I believe goes more to the heart of the issue.

Jim Bates wanted more than T2 was obviously willing for him to be for 'the Packers'. There had to be alot of disappointment in Ted Thompson when his man on "D" decided to bail.

Yet the packers still pay him for his decision to desert?

To me this is really unusual, and the truthful (factual) story behind it may - one day be told?

[bbbffl66]

Noodle, I agree. What's not to like about Bates other than his age? The guy obviously is a motivator on defense and his ability to take little talent and turn in a pretty good defense (i.e. the Pack of 2005) is downright amazing. Given what we have this year I can only imagine how things would have been.

Initially I was angry that Thompson hired M3 over Bates and didn't understand the logic other than Thompson wanted to go young. Since that time though I like M3's approach (versus Childress who I view as a Marine sergeant and control freak) and am somewhat optimistic that things will pan out.

Ideally yeah, Bates would have come back as DC and we'd have a legitimate shot at being a top 5 defense this year with the additions on paper but who knows, Sanders may be the man as well.

I wish Jim Bates nothing but the best and am damn happy he came through Green Bay on his tour of coaching. He is in my opinion what a coach should be. A flat out motivator and so passionate that it bleeds on the field. Lombardi comes to mind just thinking about it.

Who knows, if M3 flops or the defense greatly regresses we may see him again next year. Not that I want that to happen (I honestly think we're going to make nice strides this year) but then again the Rhodes experience failed miserably and nobody saw that coming.


Does anyone think that as a HC he might have been like Rhodes or more accuratly Buddy Ryan? High energy DC, great results, but over his head as HC?

[woodbuck27]

Noodle, I agree. What's not to like about Bates other than his age? The guy obviously is a motivator on defense and his ability to take little talent and turn in a pretty good defense (i.e. the Pack of 2005) is downright amazing. Given what we have this year I can only imagine how things would have been.

Initially I was angry that Thompson hired M3 over Bates and didn't understand the logic other than Thompson wanted to go young. Since that time though I like M3's approach (versus Childress who I view as a Marine sergeant and control freak) and am somewhat optimistic that things will pan out.

Ideally yeah, Bates would have come back as DC and we'd have a legitimate shot at being a top 5 defense this year with the additions on paper but who knows, Sanders may be the man as well.

I wish Jim Bates nothing but the best and am damn happy he came through Green Bay on his tour of coaching. He is in my opinion what a coach should be. A flat out motivator and so passionate that it bleeds on the field. Lombardi comes to mind just thinking about it.

Who knows, if M3 flops or the defense greatly regresses we may see him again next year. Not that I want that to happen (I honestly think we're going to make nice strides this year) but then again the Rhodes experience failed miserably and nobody saw that coming.


Does anyone think that as a HC he might have been like Rhodes or more accuratly Buddy Ryan? High energy DC, great results, but over his head as HC?

" Does anyone think that as a HC he might have been like Rhodes or more accuratly Buddy Ryan? High energy DC, great results, but over his head as HC? "bbbffl66

Your questioning whether or not, he would have been able to sustain the job health wise ?

He had enough just as the Defensive Co-ordinator.

T2 isn't stupid, and he also appears genuinely sensitive with compassion.

Ted Thompson is a deep Man. He is so very guarded too.