Players that have to go

[Partial]

These players suck and have to go:

1. Brandon Jackson
2. DeShawn Wynn
3. Korey Hall
4. Mike Montgomery
5. Justin Harrell
6. Patrick Lee
7. Brian Brohm
8. AJ Hawk
9. Derrick Martin
10. Jarett Bush

These guys have all done next to nothing to show they belong. I really hope they consider turning over these players on the roster as soon as possible. Most are oft-injured or just all-around poor.

[sharpe1027]

Great insights.

[packers11]

These players suck and have to go:

1. Brandon Jackson
2. DeShawn Wynn
3. Korey Hall
4. Mike Montgomery
5. Justin Harrell
6. Patrick Lee
7. Brian Brohm
8. AJ Hawk
9. Derrick Martin
10. Jarett Bush


1. Don't agree... I would still give him another season #3 RB say the least...
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree, I don't think he fits the 3-4 well
5. One more season, if he gets hurt again just dump him (to much time invested not to give one more season a try)
6. Don't agree at all. Lee is still a project, next season should be a good indicator on how far he has progressed.
7. Hes on the PS? Why would you want to dump him?
8.Don't agree. Hawk is servicable and adds depth to the 3-4 linebackers. With a ton of cap room and no cap next year anyway, mine as well keep him.
9. Agree, after this season they should look for more safety help.
10. Agree, this guy some how sticks to the roster yet makes so many dumb mistakes (Carroll JR)

Partial , I'm surprised you didn't have Rodgers on the list as well :lol: :wink:

[Lurker64]

Derick Martin, we should certainly look to upgrade him, but get rid of him? Nah. We're already terribly thin at safety. He's not worse than perennial backup safety Charlie Peprah.

Hawk? No reason to dump him. He's our best ILB in the base D, he just doesn't see much play when we're in the nickel the whole game. It's not going to be easy to upgrade that position to the point where Hawk won't make the roster.

Harrell's on his last chance, if he can get healthy and play next year he sticks. It's costing the Packers virtually nothing to keep him this year. It's next year that could be pricey, but you have to give him a chance to show up at TC and see if he can play with his back.

Jarrett Bush is one of the premier gunners in the league. He commits some stupid penalties on special teams, but that's correctable. He's useless as a defensive back, but his special teams play absolutely merits a roster spot.

Pat Lee's a project, and he's on IR anyway. You have to at least give him next TC. Certainly we're going to be looking for talent at his position, as we're sort of thin behind the silverbacks.

Brohm, D. Wynn, and Montgomery are pretty worthless. Hall's a decent receiver for a FB, but we're not going to keep 3 forever. I wouldn't be sad if all four of those guys were cut tomorrow.

[Partial]

Derick Martin, we should certainly look to upgrade him, but get rid of him? Nah. We're already terribly thin at safety. He's not worse than perennial backup safety Charlie Peprah.

Hawk? No reason to dump him. He's our best ILB in the base D, he just doesn't see much play when we're in the nickel the whole game. It's not going to be easy to upgrade that position to the point where Hawk won't make the roster.

Harrell's on his last chance, if he can get healthy and play next year he sticks. It's costing the Packers virtually nothing to keep him this year. It's next year that could be pricey, but you have to give him a chance to show up at TC and see if he can play with his back.

Jarrett Bush is one of the premier gunners in the league. He commits some stupid penalties on special teams, but that's correctable. He's useless as a defensive back, but his special teams play absolutely merits a roster spot.

Pat Lee's a project, and he's on IR anyway. You have to at least give him next TC. Certainly we're going to be looking for talent at his position, as we're sort of thin behind the silverbacks.

Brohm, D. Wynn, and Montgomery are pretty worthless. Hall's a decent receiver for a FB, but we're not going to keep 3 forever. I wouldn't be sad if all four of those guys were cut tomorrow.

They need to bring in competition weekly and start pushing these players or get rid of them. Some of these guys have no business in the NFL. Obviously you can't replace them without a suitable player, but you need to bring in competition daily until you find someone.

Hawk is not our best linebacker. He's only on the team because of what he's paid and will likely not be back next year. He is just a guy and doesn't make any plays. Tough to lose face by cutting a #5 pick.

Harrell is only still around because you're right, he costs next to nothing on IR.

Bush has been next to useless on special teams this year getting penalties and acting a fool. I was a Bush fan for awhile but his shiz is stale.

Pat Lee was a project last year and was a disappointment this year. He's not going to be a player. Had he not got hurt, he would have only made the roster on merit of draft status, thats it.

If any of these guys are on the roster without a huge showing in camp next year, I will be extremely disappointed as they are all horrible football players in the sense that they are either A) unavailable or B) lacking any talent whatsoever

[sharpe1027]

They need to bring in competition weekly and start pushing these players.

I would put every player on the roster in this category. Bert doesn't agree with that, but I do.

[SkinBasket]

Hawk is not our best linebacker. He's only on the team because of what he's paid and will likely not be back next year. He is just a guy and doesn't make any plays. Tough to lose face by cutting a #5 pick.

Have you seen some our linebackers play? Maybe you don't remember what a poor LB can do to a team. Sure, you can make the case that he isn't out there making plays on a level you would have hoped from a #5 pick, but his negativeness are limited, and assuming he progresses no further than he is today, you still keep a guy like that until you have something better. Something better than a solid starter isn't going to fall into our laps. You don't just cut him because he didn't live up to fan expectations as the 5th overall pick despite the fact he's a solid player. You cut him because he gets beat out and despite your fanboy raging hard-on about Bishop, he's not a serviceable starter there.


they are all horrible football players in the sense that they are either A) unavailable or B) lacking any talent whatsoever

That's a bit of hyperbole. Except in the case of Bush. People still cling to this notion, like they do that Bigby is a hard hitter, that Bush is some kind of special teams ace. He isn't. How many plays has he made this season? How many plays does he make in any given season. Good plays I mean. The best argument I've heard in his favor is that he demands a double team. Well whooptie-do. That would mean something if he were able to make a tackle every game or two. As it is, it just means he flaps his arms around a lot as he runs ineffectively down field.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This thread and list pretty much show a complete lack of understanding of the NFL and building a team.

[sheepshead]

These players suck and have to go:

1. Brandon Jackson
2. DeShawn Wynn
3. Korey Hall
4. Mike Montgomery
5. Justin Harrell
6. Patrick Lee
7. Brian Brohm
8. AJ Hawk
9. Derrick Martin
10. Jarett Bush
11. Aaron Rodgers
These guys have all done next to nothing to show they belong. I really hope they consider turning over these players on the roster as soon as possible. Most are oft-injured or just all-around poor.


fixed

[Cheesehead Craig]

http://www.realfreewebsites.com/blog/img/fail2.jpg

[Partial]

Hawk is not our best linebacker. He's only on the team because of what he's paid and will likely not be back next year. He is just a guy and doesn't make any plays. Tough to lose face by cutting a #5 pick.

Have you seen some our linebackers play? Maybe you don't remember what a poor LB can do to a team. Sure, you can make the case that he isn't out there making plays on a level you would have hoped from a #5 pick, but his negativeness are limited, and assuming he progresses no further than he is today, you still keep a guy like that until you have something better. Something better than a solid starter isn't going to fall into our laps. You don't just cut him because he didn't live up to fan expectations as the 5th overall pick despite the fact he's a solid player. You cut him because he gets beat out and despite your fanboy raging hard-on about Bishop, he's not a serviceable starter there.


they are all horrible football players in the sense that they are either A) unavailable or B) lacking any talent whatsoever

That's a bit of hyperbole. Except in the case of Bush. People still cling to this notion, like they do that Bigby is a hard hitter, that Bush is some kind of special teams ace. He isn't. How many plays has he made this season? How many plays does he make in any given season. Good plays I mean. The best argument I've heard in his favor is that he demands a double team. Well whooptie-do. That would mean something if he were able to make a tackle every game or two. As it is, it just means he flaps his arms around a lot as he runs ineffectively down field.

Hawk is a liability in my opinion in the 3-4. We need guys who will make plays and create, otherwise our defense will simply be average at best. Hawk is making too much money to be the type of guy that he is. I don't suspect he will be back with the Pack certainly after his contract expires if they elect to keep him. In my mind, though, they'll cut him. Since he's only playing in run downs, I suspect that Bishop can easily fill that role. From Moss' comments about how he'd be "shocked" if the Pack let Bishop get away, it sounds like they think the same.

I agree on Bush. He needs to go. Some of those guys have talent but aren't available. Talent doesn't do any good at all on the sidelines. In fact, it's worse to keep a great player who can play one or two games a season than it is to keep an average guy who can play 16 in my opinion.

[Brandon494]

These players suck and have to go:

1. Brandon Jackson- Averages 4.3 yards per carry and is only 24, give him another year to see if he can stay healthy.
2. DeShawn Wynn- I was high on Wynn during his rookie season but he has looked really slow the few times I've seen him in the backfield this season. Averages 5.2 yards per carry for his career but I do believe we should let him go.
3. Korey Hall- Would rather keep Hall over Kuhn, Hall adds more to special teams being a LB in college. Did you not see the hit he put on Percy Harvin during the kickoff return?
4. Mike Montgomery- agreed, does not fit the 3-4
5. Justin Harrell- agreed
6. Patrick Lee- Has not shown much but would atleast hang on to him until next season, maybe try him out at safety?
7. Brian Brohm- way too early to give up on Brohm, besides he is on the P.S.
8. AJ Hawk- I would trade Hawk in a minute for some OL help but it would be foolish to just release him.
9. Derrick Martin- agreed
10. Jarett Bush-agreed

These guys have all done next to nothing to show they belong. I really hope they consider turning over these players on the roster as soon as possible. Most are oft-injured or just all-around poor.

[SkinBasket]

All I can say is that if you somehow think Hawk is a liability out there, you must not be watching Barnett, Chillar, or Poppinga play.

[Partial]

All I can say is that if you somehow think Hawk is a liability out there, you must not be watching Barnett, Chillar, or Poppinga play.

Hawk is such a liability that they won't let him play compared to Barnett or Chillar. Poppinga is not great either and as a result doesn't play much anymore.

[Lurker64]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

[Partial]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

If he is our best run stopping LB, then why has he barely been on the field the past two games? Sure, they play a lot of nickel, but surely they are concerned about stopping the run as well...

I disagree with this notion. When has Hawk had a tackle for a loss? I cannot remember the last time I've seen one they're so infrequent. Matthews had two last week in addition to sacks if I remember correctly.

He isn't very good or he would be on the field more. Ray Lewis is old, slow and not great in coverage but he doesn't leave the field, for example.

[Deputy Nutz]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

Just my opinion, but I think Hawk is actually our most assignment sure linebacker in coverage. I think Chillar is better in man coverage, but he is actually to stupid to play zone worth a shit.

Chilllar also gets the nod in the nickel because at one point in the first game of the season he sacked the QB. Haven't seen shit since.

Partial, stop reading the papers, listening to WSSP and basing your opinion only on those secondary sources. Try watching the game.

Hawk isn't playing like a top 5 player picked in a draft. Chad Greenway in Minnesota is playing a hell of a lot better. This switch to the 3-4 has put several of our defensive players in a position without a position.

Also, if I don't see improvement in our inside linebackers and linebackers in general I think it is time for Winston Moss to take a hike.

[BallHawk]

Hawk does not sack the QB and he does not blow up RBs in the backfield for negative yardage. This is an obvious sign that he is a shitty LB and should be cut immediately in favor of giving more playing time to a more talented LB like Desmond Bishop.

[Partial]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

Just my opinion, but I think Hawk is actually our most assignment sure linebacker in coverage. I think Chillar is better in man coverage, but he is actually to stupid to play zone worth a shit.

Chilllar also gets the nod in the nickel because at one point in the first game of the season he sacked the QB. Haven't seen shit since.

Partial, stop reading the papers, listening to WSSP and basing your opinion only on those secondary sources. Try watching the game.

Hawk isn't playing like a top 5 player picked in a draft. Chad Greenway in Minnesota is playing a hell of a lot better. This switch to the 3-4 has put several of our defensive players in a position without a position.

Also, if I don't see improvement in our inside linebackers and linebackers in general I think it is time for Winston Moss to take a hike.

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.

Hawk has had fewer impact plays than just about any starter on the team. This is a pressure, big play defense. I just cannot see them keeping the beast on the sidelines while they keep playing the brawny man.

I do trust a lot of what I hear from WSSP because former pros know a bit more than most of the people posting here.

[Freak Out]

http://www.realfreewebsites.com/blog/img/fail2.jpg

There goes a good plate of knakwurst.

[pbmax]

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.
Its a little late in the development of the NFL for you not to understand situational substitution.

Perhaps the fact that by your reasoning Fred Dean, Hacksaw Reynolds, Calvin Hill and Charles Haley were liabilities and frauds might cause you to reconsider the usefulness of a player who can do specific things very well.

[sheepshead]

How about "Posters that have to go"?

[Fritz]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

Just my opinion, but I think Hawk is actually our most assignment sure linebacker in coverage. I think Chillar is better in man coverage, but he is actually to stupid to play zone worth a shit.

Chilllar also gets the nod in the nickel because at one point in the first game of the season he sacked the QB. Haven't seen shit since.

Partial, stop reading the papers, listening to WSSP and basing your opinion only on those secondary sources. Try watching the game.

Hawk isn't playing like a top 5 player picked in a draft. Chad Greenway in Minnesota is playing a hell of a lot better. This switch to the 3-4 has put several of our defensive players in a position without a position.

Also, if I don't see improvement in our inside linebackers and linebackers in general I think it is time for Winston Moss to take a hike.

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.

Hawk has had fewer impact plays than just about any starter on the team. This is a pressure, big play defense. I just cannot see them keeping the beast on the sidelines while they keep playing the brawny man.

I do trust a lot of what I hear from WSSP because former pros know a bit more than most of the people posting here.

Matt Millen!

Michael Irvin!

[Administrator]

How about "Posters that have to go"?

how about if you keep this kind of stuff up, I start with you?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How about "Posters that have to go"?

how about if you keep this kind of stuff up, I start with you?

Fuck, even i'm not dumb enough to give you that kind of ammo. :lol:

[Guiness]

I hope the thought police aren't around, cause I know what I was thinkin'

[Bossman641]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

Just my opinion, but I think Hawk is actually our most assignment sure linebacker in coverage. I think Chillar is better in man coverage, but he is actually to stupid to play zone worth a shit.

Chilllar also gets the nod in the nickel because at one point in the first game of the season he sacked the QB. Haven't seen shit since.

Partial, stop reading the papers, listening to WSSP and basing your opinion only on those secondary sources. Try watching the game.

Hawk isn't playing like a top 5 player picked in a draft. Chad Greenway in Minnesota is playing a hell of a lot better. This switch to the 3-4 has put several of our defensive players in a position without a position.

Also, if I don't see improvement in our inside linebackers and linebackers in general I think it is time for Winston Moss to take a hike.

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.

Hawk has had fewer impact plays than just about any starter on the team. This is a pressure, big play defense. I just cannot see them keeping the beast on the sidelines while they keep playing the brawny man.

I do trust a lot of what I hear from WSSP because former pros know a bit more than most of the people posting here.

If Bishop were really that great don't you think he would get any snaps

[Deputy Nutz]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

Just my opinion, but I think Hawk is actually our most assignment sure linebacker in coverage. I think Chillar is better in man coverage, but he is actually to stupid to play zone worth a shit.

Chilllar also gets the nod in the nickel because at one point in the first game of the season he sacked the QB. Haven't seen shit since.

Partial, stop reading the papers, listening to WSSP and basing your opinion only on those secondary sources. Try watching the game.

Hawk isn't playing like a top 5 player picked in a draft. Chad Greenway in Minnesota is playing a hell of a lot better. This switch to the 3-4 has put several of our defensive players in a position without a position.

Also, if I don't see improvement in our inside linebackers and linebackers in general I think it is time for Winston Moss to take a hike.

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.

Hawk has had fewer impact plays than just about any starter on the team. This is a pressure, big play defense. I just cannot see them keeping the beast on the sidelines while they keep playing the brawny man.

I do trust a lot of what I hear from WSSP because former pros know a bit more than most of the people posting here.

I actually coached with Gary Ellerson, and coached his son when he was a freshman. Nothing Gary Ellerson ever came up with or said about football was ground breaking. He like any pro has the insight about lockerroom type stuff, relates to what the players are going through, that type of stuff, but as far as getting his opinion about play on the field, or play design I will find another ex-pro's opinion before I label Gary Ellerson's opinion as the bible.

Leroy Butler, let me know when he finally lands that job as an assistant coach in the pros.

Next who says that every player on this defense has to be dynamic and make Earth shattering play after play after play? If that is the case cut Pickett's fat ass right now, but guess what? He has a role and he fills it just fine. I am certainly not saying that I am excited about the play of Hawk, but I am certainly telling you that the play of Chillar, and Barnett have much more to be desired, neither one of them can be termed a "playmaker" at this point of the season.

How many touchdown passes has Hawk given up this year? I can count at least 3 that Chillar has given up and I know of at least one for Barnett where Favre fucked him like a hooker in a school girl outfit.

[Noodle]

I know of at least one for Barnett where Favre fucked him like a hooker in a school girl outfit.

Nutz, you have a rare talent for pithy observations.

Why you aren't providing the color on Monday Night Football is a mystery to me.

[MJZiggy]

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.

Hawk has had fewer impact plays than just about any starter on the team. This is a pressure, big play defense. I just cannot see them keeping the beast on the sidelines while they keep playing the brawny man.

I do trust a lot of what I hear from WSSP because former pros know a bit more than most of the people posting here.

Matt Millen!

Michael Irvin!

Irvin can't even put a sentence together much less analyze anything. I would trust Patler or KY over any of 'em!

[Deputy Nutz]

I know of at least one for Barnett where Favre fucked him like a hooker in a school girl outfit.

Nutz, you have a rare talent for pithy observations.

Why you aren't providing the color on Monday Night Football is a mystery to me.

Something to do with race.

[Fritz]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

Just my opinion, but I think Hawk is actually our most assignment sure linebacker in coverage. I think Chillar is better in man coverage, but he is actually to stupid to play zone worth a shit.

Chilllar also gets the nod in the nickel because at one point in the first game of the season he sacked the QB. Haven't seen shit since.

Partial, stop reading the papers, listening to WSSP and basing your opinion only on those secondary sources. Try watching the game.

Hawk isn't playing like a top 5 player picked in a draft. Chad Greenway in Minnesota is playing a hell of a lot better. This switch to the 3-4 has put several of our defensive players in a position without a position.

Also, if I don't see improvement in our inside linebackers and linebackers in general I think it is time for Winston Moss to take a hike.

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.

Hawk has had fewer impact plays than just about any starter on the team. This is a pressure, big play defense. I just cannot see them keeping the beast on the sidelines while they keep playing the brawny man.

I do trust a lot of what I hear from WSSP because former pros know a bit more than most of the people posting here.

I actually coached with Gary Ellerson, and coached his son when he was a freshman. Nothing Gary Ellerson ever came up with or said about football was ground breaking. He like any pro has the insight about lockerroom type stuff, relates to what the players are going through, that type of stuff, but as far as getting his opinion about play on the field, or play design I will find another ex-pro's opinion before I label Gary Ellerson's opinion as the bible.

Leroy Butler, let me know when he finally lands that job as an assistant coach in the pros.

Next who says that every player on this defense has to be dynamic and make Earth shattering play after play after play? If that is the case cut Pickett's fat ass right now, but guess what? He has a role and he fills it just fine. I am certainly not saying that I am excited about the play of Hawk, but I am certainly telling you that the play of Chillar, and Barnett have much more to be desired, neither one of them can be termed a "playmaker" at this point of the season.

How many touchdown passes has Hawk given up this year? I can count at least 3 that Chillar has given up and I know of at least one for Barnett where Favre fucked him like a hooker in a school girl outfit.

Nutzy, I don't always agree with you but you crack me right up.

And I do agree with your assessment of ex-players - lockerroom insights, yes, but more knowledge than, say, guys who've coached at a certain level, and so on - I'm not so sure. What I find ironic is that all these former players are hired as analysts and commentators, yet the one area they might be most helpful with - the lockerroom stuff - they probably can't talk about much on the air.

[Partial]

Hawk is our best run stopping LB and he's adequate in pass coverage, so he plays in the base defense. In specialty packages (like the nickel), he is taken off the field because he is neither our best blitzer nor our best coverage backer. The specialists are the guys who go in the specialty packages, and Hawk isn't special at anything. He is, however, above-average to very good at pretty much everything you'd ask an inside linebacker to do.

Just my opinion, but I think Hawk is actually our most assignment sure linebacker in coverage. I think Chillar is better in man coverage, but he is actually to stupid to play zone worth a shit.

Chilllar also gets the nod in the nickel because at one point in the first game of the season he sacked the QB. Haven't seen shit since.

Partial, stop reading the papers, listening to WSSP and basing your opinion only on those secondary sources. Try watching the game.

Hawk isn't playing like a top 5 player picked in a draft. Chad Greenway in Minnesota is playing a hell of a lot better. This switch to the 3-4 has put several of our defensive players in a position without a position.

Also, if I don't see improvement in our inside linebackers and linebackers in general I think it is time for Winston Moss to take a hike.

I take away from the game that they have little faith in Hawk as they don't play him much anymore.

Hawk has had fewer impact plays than just about any starter on the team. This is a pressure, big play defense. I just cannot see them keeping the beast on the sidelines while they keep playing the brawny man.

I do trust a lot of what I hear from WSSP because former pros know a bit more than most of the people posting here.

If Bishop were really that great don't you think he would get any snaps

I don't think he's the second coming, but I think he is the type of guy who will at least make some things happen. In his very little real game experience, he has made as many game changing plays (FFs, for example) as I can remember Hawk making in his entire career.

Bishop isn't a complete player, but neither is Hawk. Bishop is a much bigger hitter/tackler in my opinion, and a much, much better blitzer.

I think Bishop could be a solid starter in this system where I do not see Hawk satisfying that role.

Nutzy -- not everyone has to be a playmaker, but in this system the linebackers are the playmakers. Now we just need them to make plays.

I think it's unfair to pick on Barnett. He looked awfully good last week. It seems like he's getting his legs back under him.

Leroy still was a very successful pro and the quarterback of the defense so I will value his opinion on the matter quite a bit. When two very successful pros and one moderately successful one agree on something very passionately (people who also watched practice daily, something you or I did not), I can at least respect their opinion and won't write it off, since they've clearly been there before and have a level of understanding from the sheer hours of film study that you or I do not.


PB,

I understand they played a lot of nickel, but its the hen before the egg problem. Are they playing nickel because it puts the 11 best guys on the field, or are they playing nickel because the other team is running 3-4 guys out there on routes? I barely watched the game so I have no idea. I tend to believe that if AJ was in the top 11 defenders, they'd find a way to get him on the field more than 11 snaps a game.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I barely watched the game so I have no idea.

Never has so little said so much.

[Guiness]

I actually coached with Gary Ellerson,

You should count yourself lucky it wasn't Emmitt Smith helping you out. Can you imagine trying to work with him???

[bobblehead]

I know of at least one for Barnett where Favre fucked him like a hooker in a school girl outfit.

Nutz, you have a rare talent for pithy observations.

Why you aren't providing the color on Monday Night Football is a mystery to me.

Something to do with race.

OH MY GOD....THE DEPUTY IS A *GONG*

[SkinBasket]

I barely watched the game so I have no idea.

Never has so little said so much.

This isn't the first time we've heard this either. If you're going to waste so much time making these arguments, Partial, you might want to start watching some football.

[Scott Campbell]

How about "Posters that have to go"?

how about if you keep this kind of stuff up, I start with you?

Fuck, even i'm not dumb enough to give you that kind of ammo. :lol:



Don't underestimate yourself Ty.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I barely watched the game so I have no idea.

Never has so little said so much.

This isn't the first time we've heard this either. If you're going to waste so much time making these arguments, Partial, you might want to start watching some football.

You really think, from his previous posts, that watching the game will improve his analysis? :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How about "Posters that have to go"?

how about if you keep this kind of stuff up, I start with you?

Fuck, even i'm not dumb enough to give you that kind of ammo. :lol:



Don't underestimate yourself Ty.

I never do Scott.

[b bulldog]

All of our LB's except for Mathews are basicly good for sh!t.

[Deputy Nutz]

I barely watched the game so I have no idea.

Never has so little said so much.

Well thank god he has Leroy Butler.

I have tried to get behind Partial since his return, but when you make threads about players and their abilities and then admit that you hardly watched the game to begin with I have real issues with that. This really shakes any and all credibility Partial ever had with me.

This thread boarders on him being a troll, but since we only have a 15 posters contribute here on a daily basis I guess we will take what we can get. :bs2:

[Partial]

All of our LB's except for Mathews are basicly good for sh!t.

Agreed with the exception I like how Barnett plays down hill and is at least intense and plays with fire.

[Deputy Nutz]

All of our LB's except for Mathews are basicly good for sh!t.

This sounds like a post by a guy that only watches little bitty bits of games.

[b bulldog]

That sounds like a post from a guy who thinks LB's are not supposed to be making plays in a 3/4 scheme.

[Bossman641]

All of our LB's except for Mathews are basicly good for sh!t.

Agreed with the exception I like how Barnett plays down hill and is at least intense and plays with fire.

Weren't you just posting like 10 days ago how worthless Barnett is?

my mistake if it wasn't you

[Partial]

All of our LB's except for Mathews are basicly good for sh!t.

Agreed with the exception I like how Barnett plays down hill and is at least intense and plays with fire.

Weren't you just posting like 10 days ago how worthless Barnett is?

my mistake if it wasn't you

Could be, he looked horrible the first few games but looked infinitely faster last week and was playing with aggression downhill. The man is back. He clearly is still working through the injury.

[Zool]

Barnett is better than Chillar when healthy but really thats not much of a compliment.

Hawk is the only MLB who doesnt get washed on run plays. He just looks so much slower in coverage this year than I ever recall. Maybe he's too bulky.

I guess I can't speak to Bishops ability because he never see's the field. That should probably say enough about him. He was a stud against 3rd and 4th stringers in the PS though.

Matthews is playing well.

How come no one ever brings up Havner? Didnt he have a catch this week?

[SkinBasket]

The man is black.

Fixed for accuracy.

[Deputy Nutz]

That sounds like a post from a guy who thinks LB's are not supposed to be making plays in a 3/4 scheme.

When did I ever say that? Because I haven't. I said they all have their roles and Barnett and Chillar have both been less as average at there roles as well.

I love Winston Moss's quote about how Hawk needs to make plays out of his own responsibilities. A dumb quote to begin with, but I saw Chillar at least three or four times continue his blitz to the backside of a play even though the play was going away from him. Chillar really has no clue other than the specific responsibility.

This team is so mest up it isn't funny. Unless I see the play of all the linebackers improve, I think Winston Moss needs to take a hike at the end of the year.

[Cheesehead Craig]

This team is so mest up it isn't funny. Unless I see the play of all the linebackers improve, I think Winston Moss needs to take a hike at the end of the year.
Agree on this. I've never been all that thrilled with Moss.

[SkinBasket]

This team is so mest up it isn't funny. Unless I see the play of all the linebackers improve, I think Winston Moss needs to take a hike at the end of the year.
Agree on this. I've never been all that thrilled with Moss.

Moss's greatest achievements have always been second hand accounts of how great he is. A great coach doesn't need his players to speak for him, their play says it all. How great have our LBs been in the last 3+ years?

There's only so many times you can blame the players, changing schemes, and defensive coordinators. At some point you have to look at the one constant, which has been Moss.

[pbmax]

PB,

I understand they played a lot of nickel, but its the hen before the egg problem. Are they playing nickel because it puts the 11 best guys on the field, or are they playing nickel because the other team is running 3-4 guys out there on routes? I barely watched the game so I have no idea. I tend to believe that if AJ was in the top 11 defenders, they'd find a way to get him on the field more than 11 snaps a game.
The defensive unit isn't like the offensive line. They need to matchup to the O's personnel. They played nickel because down and distance tendencies told them it was going to be a pass, or the O personnel package told them it had to be a pass.

[Noodle]

This team is so mest up it isn't funny. Unless I see the play of all the linebackers improve, I think Winston Moss needs to take a hike at the end of the year.
Agree on this. I've never been all that thrilled with Moss.

So, do you give Kevin Greene a pink slip too?

If so, who's got the sack to do that? Dude would kill a brother for no reason at all.

[SkinBasket]

This team is so mest up it isn't funny. Unless I see the play of all the linebackers improve, I think Winston Moss needs to take a hike at the end of the year.
Agree on this. I've never been all that thrilled with Moss.

So, do you give Kevin Greene a pink slip too?

If so, who's got the sack to do that? Dude would kill a brother for no reason at all.

Again, we've all bitched in general and specifically about linebacker play during the past few years. There's been only one constant during that time - Winston Moss.

[wist43]

Wells, Barnett, Kampman, Thompson... off the top of my head.

Long term replacements due to age - both corners, Clifton. Sans Matthews, Jones, and maybe Bishop, need a whole new LB corp... need help at S too.

Without augmenting the roster thru FA and/or trade... it's akin to a cat chasing his tail. We'll always be the youngest team in the league, and TT will never be able to fill all the holes in the roster strictly thru the draft.

I suspect that TT will begin to change his approach next year though... although the lack of a CBA may put a monkey wrench in that.

[imscott72]

These players suck and have to go:

1. Brandon Jackson
2. DeShawn Wynn
3. Korey Hall
4. Mike Montgomery
5. Justin Harrell
6. Patrick Lee
7. Brian Brohm
8. AJ Hawk
9. Derrick Martin
10. Jarett Bush

These guys have all done next to nothing to show they belong. I really hope they consider turning over these players on the roster as soon as possible. Most are oft-injured or just all-around poor.

I agree with all these except Hawk. I think he's solid. Not spectacular for a top 5 pick, but solid and because he was a top 5 pick he stays. The rest are worthless.

[Fritz]

Wells, Barnett, Kampman, Thompson... off the top of my head.

Long term replacements due to age - both corners, Clifton. Sans Matthews, Jones, and maybe Bishop, need a whole new LB corp... need help at S too.

Without augmenting the roster thru FA and/or trade... it's akin to a cat chasing his tail. We'll always be the youngest team in the league, and TT will never be able to fill all the holes in the roster strictly thru the draft.

I suspect that TT will begin to change his approach next year though... although the lack of a CBA may put a monkey wrench in that.

You bring up what I think is an interesting issue: without a developmental league to groom players like offensive linemen, who take often years to develop, as a GM you have a choice of having backups who are too raw to play (so they can develop for three years down the line) or backups who can step in and play adequately - which leaves you, three years down the line, with no offensive line.

I think TT and MM tried to finesse around this by shuffling the line when a guy got hurt. However, it seems that Colledge is not going to be moved now - it'll be Lang at LT behind Clifton.

You can't say the practice squad is the place for that - I submit as evidence Jamon Meredith and the tight end Miami took from the Packers' PS last year. As soon as your guy shows some development - and maybe before - he's going to be plucked.

I think that TT is starting to see the downfall of having too-young backups and thus has signed Green and Tauscher. However, it's still a pickle for any NFL GM.

My thinking is that the NFL needs a developmental league kinda like NFL - E.

[bobblehead]

Just curious (and I'm not accusing here cuz I don't recall). Have any of you who are bagging on Partial for not watching the games used the argument that we can't tell much by watching on TV, and the coaches see them every day in practice and study film in depth?

I personally think in the day of DVR and slow motion capabilies we can learn a TON from watching on TV, but many have disagreed with me. Partial is relying on the words of professionals and the different places he reads. That is as valid as me or nutz or ty watching the game. I'll bag on him for being wrong, but not on his source of information.

[Partial]

I didn't watch ONE game.

[Maxie the Taxi]

These players suck and have to go:

1. Brandon Jackson
2. DeShawn Wynn
3. Korey Hall
4. Mike Montgomery
5. Justin Harrell
6. Patrick Lee
7. Brian Brohm
8. AJ Hawk
9. Derrick Martin
10. Jarett Bush



Jackson: Depends on who replaces him. Plus, he fumbled Sunday.
Wynn: I told everyone here when Wynn was drafted that he was a bum.
Montgomery: I like him. He still has some good games in him.
Harrell: God only knows, or maybe Reggie White.
Lee: Don't know anything about him, so he must be a project.
Brohm: McCarthy only knows. (I sure would worry if our first two QB's went down)
Hawk: Come on. Every team needs a reliable guy. Just get him off the oxygen.
Martin: He's worth keeping just for special teams.
Bush: Isn't he already out and Obama in?

[retailguy]

I didn't watch ONE game.

And here I thought you were a REAL fan. :x

There are no excuses for missing games, dammit. :D

[pbmax]

Just curious (and I'm not accusing here cuz I don't recall). Have any of you who are bagging on Partial for not watching the games used the argument that we can't tell much by watching on TV, and the coaches see them every day in practice and study film in depth?

I personally think in the day of DVR and slow motion capabilies we can learn a TON from watching on TV, but many have disagreed with me. Partial is relying on the words of professionals and the different places he reads. That is as valid as me or nutz or ty watching the game. I'll bag on him for being wrong, but not on his source of information.
The DVR is phenomenal. But it still doesn't show you what you can see about alignment and spacing from the end zone cameras where game film is shot.

The problem with relying on second-hand reports is that you have nothing to compare it to. Nothing to balance it with. So it someone goes off on a tangent, you go with them.

[Brandon494]

How about coaches that need to go?

I nominate James Campen! :twisted:

[SnakeLH2006]

How about coaches that need to go?

I nominate James Campen! :twisted:

Are you loopy yo, Brandon. Favre still has pull. That's the only reason he stayed in the league. Part of his contract with the Vikes is that Campy (his gossipy buddy pal of pals) gets to wreak havoc getting paid 100's of thousands of dollars to undercoach and oversee an underwhelming youthful OL in GB year after year. Blame Bus Cook dude. Blame Bus Cook. :roll: