Power Runs Back? Taucher/Ahman to Get Run Game Going Again?

[SnakeLH2006]

Snake won't mash words. Ryan Grant is not a good starting running back in the NFL. The Packer's OL is soft and gets pushed back at the point of attack and gives up sacks in bunches.

Taucher is back. I feel they wouldn't have resigned him unless he's a starter. He'll be the RT again soon. Ahman...maybe that was a mercy signing to get him Jim Taylor's rushing record (hell he needs a few carries....40 some yards) to get that one. I suspect he feels he needs to get back in GB to get that record so he can get in the Packer HOF.

Ahman was one of my fav. recent Packer players. I doubt he has much left. But....I doubt he can be worse than Grant and the 3rd down phenom named Wynn at catching passes on 3rd down. Green looks healthy and I wouldn't doubt him. He's an ace pass-catcher at RB. Even with limited skills at 32, Green will push Grant for snaps if he's healthy.

Taucher back too. Maybe this is an admittance that shitty OL based on "the Thompson's" draft picks doesn't cut it when all else is clicking (QB and WR's)...maybe. Either way, I'm glad both are back. This can only help Grant (reduce carries), Barbre and Colledge (aka sieves for talented NFL passrushers).

That's about it. I expect no godsends, but those guys will play big roles and hopefully help us back to the playoffs.

Here's the scoop:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/65884642.html

Green Bay — Ahman Green is back.

Mark Tauscher is back.

Maybe the timing's right for the Packers to bring back the "U-71" package, the power run game formation in 2003-'04 that helped the Green-led ground attack attain heights not seen in Green Bay since the Lombardi years.

When Tauscher's ready to play, the Packers might insert him at right tackle and move Allen Barbre out a spot to tight end, where Racine's Kevin Barry used to destroy defensive ends when the "U-71" was going great guns.

Offensive coordinator Joe Philbin squashed that idea at midweek, pointing out that it wouldn't mesh with coach Mike McCarthy's commitment to the zone-run scheme.

"You get into that," Philbin said, "it takes a lot of investing."

In 2003, Philbin was in his first season with the Packers as the assistant offensive line coach under Larry Beightol. When Philbin was promoted to coach tight ends in '04, James Campen was hired to assist Beightol.

"I don't want to say it's a whole new offense, because it isn't," said Philbin. "We line up in some of that formation now. But it hasn't been a big thing of what we do."

Back then, the Packers' bread-and-butter rush was a power play to the right in which tight end Bubba Franks and Tauscher often blocked down, left guard Mike Wahle pulled right and Green slammed off tackle.

The Packers became even more physical when the 340-pound Barry entered the lineup next to Tauscher. Barry could be a ferocious drive blocker, and the Packers wore down some opponents running behind him.

McCarthy did run a few power plays last week in which a guard or fullback pulled to lead Ryan Grant off the right side. But since McCarthy's arrival in 2006, probably 90% or more of the team's carries have been inside zone or outside zone plays in which no one pulls.

"In the old days we used to run a down, down, kick-out," said Philbin. "Not that we don't have that in our package. We just haven't done it a lot out of that formation.

"There's a lot of looks. You can't roll it out against one defense. What happens is, they're playing something else and all of a sudden your guy's confused. That would take a commitment."

-----------------------------

For what it's worth, Snake voted Pretty Good (Option #2).

I don't know if it'll happen under MM, as he's bull-headed, but at some point you gotta go with what works to get the run game going. The passive zone-block shit has NEVER worked in what 4-5 years now? Get rid of that shit and get back to gap schemes.

Ahman could teach Grant some things of how to take a cut and run up field, take on a tackler, and maybe, kust maybe get some YAC before getting sandwiched like a dude not giving up pizza money at the corner shop for Tony Soprano. Doubt it though. Grant = Elite Suxxorz. Between getting an elite RB if we can or an elite OT next year in the 2010 NFL Draft....I hope Grant is gone. He reminds me of Vince Workman. Remember that guy? That is Ryan Grant.

[Rastak]

We'll get the band back together again!

[SnakeLH2006]

We'll get the band back together again!

It's not so much the band...don't care about nostalgia. Snake feels TT has conceded his picks/trades/pickups at RB and OL aren't cutting it. I give him props for it. MM is bullheaded with his OL and RB rotation. At least Lang is getting some starts at LT now. Better than musical OL chairs. I think he got it finally. At least Arod didn't get hurt yet.

BTW Rastak. With the dominate Vikes under Brettie, Snake is curious? I know you like the Vikes, but with which team do you praise your allegiance to in 2009? I have no diss/beef with your mindset, but just curious to which team you follow/want to succeed more. Pack or Vikes? Thanks, bud.

[Gunakor]

Ahman certainly could be worse than Grant. Grant had 1200 yards on just a shade under 4 yards per carry last year. And Green had...

Ahman isn't what he used to be. He's going to play on 3rd downs because he can catch a football and pick up a blitz. But that's it.

I don't know about Tauscher. He may not be anything at all anymore, we haven't seen him play. He may have been signed to be Barbre's backup for the season, the thinking being that we don't want to have to move Colledge over to RT if Barbre gets hurt. Until we see him on the field it's tough to get too excited over him.

I think these moves add veteran leadership, but nothing more. Our team isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago, and the starting lineup hasn't changed. These were precautionary moves IMO.

[SnakeLH2006]

Ahman certainly could be worse than Grant. Grant had 1200 yards on just a shade under 4 yards per carry last year. And Green had...

Ahman isn't what he used to be. He's going to play on 3rd downs because he can catch a football and pick up a blitz. But that's it.

I don't know about Tauscher. He may not be anything at all anymore, we haven't seen him play. He may have been signed to be Barbre's backup for the season, the thinking being that we don't want to have to move Colledge over to RT if Barbre gets hurt. Until we see him on the field it's tough to get too excited over him.

I think these moves add veteran leadership, but nothing more. Our team isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago, and the starting lineup hasn't changed. These were precautionary moves IMO.

I agree, but never did I insinuate that Green would be his former beast self or Taucher would be a beast. Realistically, Green is a great 3rd down back that WILL (if healthy) get major snaps at RB (if healthy, why wouldn't he?). Green is the question. Taucher...I dunno, I get the feeling they signed him to start at RT. I doubt he doesn't start this year if healthy. Barbre is getting better, but so would a monkey at driving a car if you trained it every day. Doesn't mean it's good at it. Barbre is not a good (name a worse starting RT in the NFL right now) RT. Taucher, if healthy, and declining is still top 20.

Green if healthy, is one of the best 3rd down pass-catching/RB's in the NFL at 32....I bet if he's healthy (all reports are he is and only 2 years removed from GB) he takes 10 RB runs away from Grant in a few games. That's good...and again if you look at the poll I voted #2. They'll both do decent if healthy...but that was the kicker in signing either/both. They both are healthy. Both won't be their former selves, but both WERE elite 2-3 years ago. Both should provide at least average starting qualities to their positions if healthy...thus a HUGE boost to 2 poor ass positions (RB and OT). That's the whole point.

[Gunakor]

Ahman certainly could be worse than Grant. Grant had 1200 yards on just a shade under 4 yards per carry last year. And Green had...

Ahman isn't what he used to be. He's going to play on 3rd downs because he can catch a football and pick up a blitz. But that's it.

I don't know about Tauscher. He may not be anything at all anymore, we haven't seen him play. He may have been signed to be Barbre's backup for the season, the thinking being that we don't want to have to move Colledge over to RT if Barbre gets hurt. Until we see him on the field it's tough to get too excited over him.

I think these moves add veteran leadership, but nothing more. Our team isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago, and the starting lineup hasn't changed. These were precautionary moves IMO.

I agree, but never did I insinuate that Green would be his former beast self or Taucher would be a beast. Realistically, Green is a great 3rd down back that WILL (if healthy) get major snaps at RB (if healthy, why wouldn't he?). Green is the question. Taucher...I dunno, I get the feeling they signed him to start at RT. I doubt he doesn't start this year if healthy. Barbre is getting better, but so would a monkey at driving a car if you trained it every day. Doesn't mean it's good at it. Barbre is not a good (name a worse starting RT in the NFL right now) RT. Taucher, if healthy, and declining is still top 20.

Green if healthy, is one of the best 3rd down pass-catching/RB's in the NFL at 32....I bet if he's healthy (all reports are he is and only 2 years removed from GB) he takes 10 RB runs away from Grant in a few games. That's good...and again if you look at the poll I voted #2. They'll both do decent if healthy...but that was the kicker in signing either/both. They both are healthy. Both won't be their former selves, but both WERE elite 2-3 years ago. Both should provide at least average starting qualities to their positions if healthy...thus a HUGE boost to 2 poor ass positions (RB and OT). That's the whole point.

Green isn't gonna get 10 carries in a game unless Grant gets hurt. He might get 10 or more snaps, but he's not gonna touch the ball each of those times. He's not one of the best 3rd down backs in the NFL until he proves he is. 2 years ago is 2 years ago. There's a huge difference between 30 and 32 where RB's are concerned. He might finish the season with a couple hundred yards on the ground, another hundred or so through the air, and maybe a score or two. Even if he's completely healthy, I don't see him getting significant playing time unless Grant gets hurt and Jackson doesn't get healthy.

Tauscher, if healthy, has to prove he's in the top 20. He wasn't all that great last season when healthy, and the injury was significant. He's not completely healthy yet, and it's been 10 months. I don't think he's top 20 even if he is healthy. In fact, I don't really think he's gonna be a whole lot better than Barbre is now, and certainly no better than Barbre is gonna be if he continues to improve at the pace he has been.

In any case, it's not a huge boost as you imply. It's a huge boost to depth, but neither are starting and I don't think either are going to. We just signed 2 quality backups.

[SnakeLH2006]

Our team isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago.


We just signed 2 quality backups.

[Gunakor]

Our team isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago.


We just signed 2 quality backups.

Let me rephrase. Our starting lineup isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago.

As much as you'd like them to be the players of old, they aren't starters. They likely (and hopefully) won't be starters. They shouldn't be starters, and they aren't any better than the guys we have starting right now - not until they prove they are. 2 years ago is 2 years ago. There's a reason these guys weren't on an NFL roster a month ago, while Barbre and Grant were starting. This is way overhyped. These guys are not saviors. They're not even starters.

[SnakeLH2006]

Our team isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago.


We just signed 2 quality backups.

Let me rephrase. Our starting lineup isn't any more talented than it was 2 weeks ago.

As much as you'd like them to be the players of old, they aren't starters. They likely (and hopefully) won't be starters. They shouldn't be starters, and they aren't any better than the guys we have starting right now - not until they prove they are. 2 years ago is 2 years ago. There's a reason these guys weren't on an NFL roster a month ago, while Barbre and Grant were starting. This is way overhyped. These guys are not saviors. They're not even starters.

Let me rephrase. I never stated them to be the starters of old. Read the posts. I said Taucher could be the starter if healthy. Green could get snaps. That was my best case scenario. Grant sucks. So does Barbre. Grant and Green won't get better...hopefully Green takes some snaps from the suck-fest that is Grant is all. I like Barbre getting better, but at this point, he's a poor ass RT. He'll get better, but Taucher healthy is better than Barbre healthy....Read the posts. That's all I'm saying.

[Gunakor]

but Taucher healthy is better than Barbre healthy.

How do you know this? We haven't seen Tausch on the field in nearly a year, and when we did see him a year ago he was awful by comparison.

He's going to be worse than he was last season even when he gets healthy. I don't trust Tauscher as a starter. I'm happy with him in a backup/mentor role for Barbre. But that's it. He was well on his way to becoming garbage before the injury, same as Clifton, and he might be garbage this season, same as Clifton.

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't claim either of these 2 guys are better than the guys we already have until you see them do it. Neither were on an NFL roster a month ago, while the starters we have were starting. The only thing they have to offer is the ability to mentor the young guys IMO. Neither are very good football players anymore, and neither were very good football players last year when healthy either. If either of these guys are starting it's because we've lost better players ahead of them due to injury.

Green is not better than Grant, and Tauscher is not better than Barbre. That's what I believe. Honestly. My justification for this belief is Tauscher's and Green's production last year when healthy (Green for 2 years when healthy), which is no better than what we're getting from Barbre and Grant over the last month. Unless you think these guys are going to come back better and more productive than they were a year ago before injury, then it's safe to assume they won't be making our starting lineup anytime soon.

[SnakeLH2006]

but Taucher healthy is better than Barbre healthy.

How do you know this? We haven't seen Tausch on the field in nearly a year, and when we did see him a year ago he was awful by comparison.

He's going to be worse than he was last season even when he gets healthy. I don't trust Tauscher as a starter. I'm happy with him in a backup/mentor role for Barbre. But that's it. He was well on his way to becoming garbage before the injury, same as Clifton, and he might be garbage this season, same as Clifton.

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't claim either of these 2 guys are better than the guys we already have until you see them do it. Neither were on an NFL roster a month ago, while the starters we have were starting. The only thing they have to offer is the ability to mentor the young guys IMO. Neither are very good football players anymore, and neither were very good football players last year when healthy either. If either of these guys are starting it's because we've lost better players ahead of them due to injury.

Green is not better than Grant, and Tauscher is not better than Barbre. That's what I believe. Honestly. My justification for this belief is Tauscher's and Green's production last year when healthy (Green for 2 years when healthy), which is no better than what we're getting from Barbre and Grant over the last month. Unless you think these guys are going to come back better and more productive than they were a year ago before injury, then it's safe to assume they won't be making our starting lineup anytime soon.

Wow dude. Don't get all pissy, Gun. I don't know, thus the poll. Just a guess....and even such I SAID IF THEY ARE HEALTHY. They are good pickups and could prove to be solid addititions if healthy. Read the posts. You are jumping to conclusions. I never stated anywhere Green would start....doubt that. I said MAYBE Taucher would start if HEALTHY. Read it first.

[Gunakor]

but Taucher healthy is better than Barbre healthy.

How do you know this? We haven't seen Tausch on the field in nearly a year, and when we did see him a year ago he was awful by comparison.

He's going to be worse than he was last season even when he gets healthy. I don't trust Tauscher as a starter. I'm happy with him in a backup/mentor role for Barbre. But that's it. He was well on his way to becoming garbage before the injury, same as Clifton, and he might be garbage this season, same as Clifton.

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't claim either of these 2 guys are better than the guys we already have until you see them do it. Neither were on an NFL roster a month ago, while the starters we have were starting. The only thing they have to offer is the ability to mentor the young guys IMO. Neither are very good football players anymore, and neither were very good football players last year when healthy either. If either of these guys are starting it's because we've lost better players ahead of them due to injury.

Green is not better than Grant, and Tauscher is not better than Barbre. That's what I believe. Honestly. My justification for this belief is Tauscher's and Green's production last year when healthy (Green for 2 years when healthy), which is no better than what we're getting from Barbre and Grant over the last month. Unless you think these guys are going to come back better and more productive than they were a year ago before injury, then it's safe to assume they won't be making our starting lineup anytime soon.

Wow dude. Don't get all pissy, Gun. I don't know, thus the poll. Just a guess....and even such I SAID IF THEY ARE HEALTHY. They are good pickups and could prove to be solid addititions if healthy. Read the posts. You are jumping to conclusions. I never stated anywhere Green would start....doubt that. I said MAYBE Taucher would start if HEALTHY. Read it first.

Not getting pissy, just making a point. I'm looking at Tauscher last season when he was healthy, and he was already well on his way to has-been status. He didn't look good to me at all. Neither did/does Clifton. If Lang shows he can play LT just as well or better than the oft-penalized, non-run-blocking Chad Clifton has played this season and last, then I hope he keeps the job. Barbre has been playing as well or better than the oft-penalized, non-run-blocking Mark Tauscher was when healthy one year ago, and I hope he keeps the job. Tauscher is not a starting caliber tackle anymore IMO, but he has a wealth of starting experience to offer Barbre and Lang - that's where his value lies. Not in what he can do, but in what he can teach. Same with Ahman Green. It's not what Green can do, it's what he can teach. Neither should crack the starting lineup IMO. That's all I'm trying to say here.

[MJZiggy]

Please don't post jso content in the forum. You're gonna get Joe sued.

[sheepshead]

Please don't post jso content in the forum. You're gonna get Joe sued.

Huh?

[Fritz]

We'll get the band back together again!

I thought the same thing, Ras. Reminded me of the time I saw a balding, wrinkled, overweight, gasping bunch of guys who used to be KC & the Sunshine Band play at a casino in Windsor.

Great stuff.

[Bretsky]

I don't agree with Gun on Tauscher; Tausch had a slow start to last year but he had stretches when he was good. Healthy I do think he's better than Barbre and I expect him to be starting soon.

[Bretsky]

Please don't post jso content in the forum. You're gonna get Joe sued.

Huh?


JS guys have come over here before and contacted the previous owner about us breaking copyright laws by posting articles. They just want the links posted. It appears we are the only website they are enforcing this with

It's a pretty good reflection of a few things

1. Their Business Model Sucks right now and they have plenty of time to piss away so they come here

2. For whatever reason they think this site has more glamour than others as they continue to do exactly what we were warned not to do

[sheepshead]

Please don't post jso content in the forum. You're gonna get Joe sued.

Huh?


JS guys have come over here before and contacted the previous owner about us breaking copyright laws by posting articles. They just want the links posted. It appears we are the only website they are enforcing this with

It's a pretty good reflection of a few things

1. Their Business Model Sucks right now and they have plenty of time to piss away so they come here

2. For whatever reason they think this site has more glamour than others as they continue to do exactly what we were warned not to do

Yeah, that's a little out there. Sounds like some guys from the White House.

[MJZiggy]

Please don't post jso content in the forum. You're gonna get Joe sued.

Huh?


JS guys have come over here before and contacted the previous owner about us breaking copyright laws by posting articles. They just want the links posted. It appears we are the only website they are enforcing this with

It's a pretty good reflection of a few things

1. Their Business Model Sucks right now and they have plenty of time to piss away so they come here

2. For whatever reason they think this site has more glamour than others as they continue to do exactly what we were warned not to do

Yeah, that's a little out there. Sounds like some guys from the White House.

Either way, it is copyright infringement and they could (and have threatened to) enforce it.

[wist43]

In going back over the Lions game... somewhere near the end of the 1st half.

Grant rips off a 7 yard run - 2nd and 3 at the 7/8 yd line (I think I recollect). OL is getting good movement off the ball in the run game, but is giving up consistent pressure to Detroits almost entirely backup DL.

So, 2nd and 3 from the 7/8... MM goes empty backfield :lol:

Rodgers is on the ground in -0.3 seconds... 3rd and 12 :roll:

Ball on the 17 yd line, 3rd and 12, MM calls a wimpy middle TE screen - bring on the FG unit.

MM is as much to blame for the lack of run game production as the players are... he is too cute by half, and is not committed to the run game. In looking at the play calling, it's almost as if he begrudgingly calls a run play, just b/c "he's supposed to", but situationally, he couldn't care less, and will almost always revert to his nature - which is pass, pass, pass.

I don't mind airing the ball out per se, and GB's passing game should be elite... but MM's too cute by half play calling and formations have a lot to do with GB's dysfunctional run game; and, the dysfunctional run game is hurting pass protection.

A lot of this is on MM's shoulders.

[bobblehead]

glossed over most of the thread but:

How is ahman or anyone going to be a beast when MM calls 15 runs a game?? Tausch isn't an upgrade over babre in the run game, only a HUGE one in the pass game.

That said, the biggest difference in this team is simply going to be a committment to the run. Either we do that and we are better or we don't and we are not.

Also Bigby being healthy is night and day. Is he our Bob Sanders?? Not saying he is that good, but when he isn't in there our D is half as good. MM all but put the loss to Cincy on Rouse, and he all but put the loss to Minnesota on the new guy (Martin?).

With Bigby in the Lineup we held Chicago to 13 and shut out the Lions. I actually have really liked out D overall. We actually do stop the run when its our priority and again, if MM is truthful our pass D is much better with Bigby lining up in the right place.

[Zool]

Grant isn't bad.

Grant - Team rushes
16 - 22
14 - 18
26 - 37
11 - 17
24 - 30


He's on pace for 1100 yards. He's not all-pro but he's definitely servicable. I guess we're suppose to have all-world players at every position but that takes a while.

[bobblehead]

Grant isn't bad.

Grant - Team rushes
16 - 22
14 - 18
26 - 37
11 - 17
24 - 30


He's on pace for 1100 yards. He's not all-pro but he's definitely servicable. I guess we're suppose to have all-world players at every position but that takes a while.

You could be right. My biggest gripe isn't Grant (although I'm not a fan), my biggest gripe is the 18 and 17 runs...especially if you take out Rodgers "runs" in those games. we won't know how good or bad Grant is until he gets 17-20 touches in the first 3 quarters. Even the St. Louis and Detroit games a lot of those carries came in the 4th to burn clock.

[Bossman641]

Grant isn't bad.

Grant - Team rushes
16 - 22
14 - 18
26 - 37
11 - 17
24 - 30


He's on pace for 1100 yards. He's not all-pro but he's definitely servicable. I guess we're suppose to have all-world players at every position but that takes a while.

You could be right. My biggest gripe isn't Grant (although I'm not a fan), my biggest gripe is the 18 and 17 runs...especially if you take out Rodgers "runs" in those games. we won't know how good or bad Grant is until he gets 17-20 touches in the first 3 quarters. Even the St. Louis and Detroit games a lot of those carries came in the 4th to burn clock.

Agreed. Just once I would like to see the offense get off the bus and run the ball down the field. I miss those Sherman/Green days.

Even last week against Det I thought Grant was going to see a heavy workload, didn't happen until the 4th quarter.

[MJZiggy]

Grant isn't bad.

Grant - Team rushes
16 - 22
14 - 18
26 - 37
11 - 17
24 - 30


He's on pace for 1100 yards. He's not all-pro but he's definitely servicable. I guess we're suppose to have all-world players at every position but that takes a while.

You could be right. My biggest gripe isn't Grant (although I'm not a fan), my biggest gripe is the 18 and 17 runs...especially if you take out Rodgers "runs" in those games. we won't know how good or bad Grant is until he gets 17-20 touches in the first 3 quarters. Even the St. Louis and Detroit games a lot of those carries came in the 4th to burn clock.

Agreed. Just once I would like to see the offense get off the bus and run the ball down the field. I miss those Sherman/Green days.

Even last week against Det I thought Grant was going to see a heavy workload, didn't happen until the 4th quarter.

Yeah, we should sign someone like Gre--wait. Right. Yay! :D

[Zool]

Grant isn't bad.

Grant - Team rushes
16 - 22
14 - 18
26 - 37
11 - 17
24 - 30


He's on pace for 1100 yards. He's not all-pro but he's definitely servicable. I guess we're suppose to have all-world players at every position but that takes a while.

You could be right. My biggest gripe isn't Grant (although I'm not a fan), my biggest gripe is the 18 and 17 runs...especially if you take out Rodgers "runs" in those games. we won't know how good or bad Grant is until he gets 17-20 touches in the first 3 quarters. Even the St. Louis and Detroit games a lot of those carries came in the 4th to burn clock.

Yeah thats my point. He actually seems to get stronger as the game goes on like a lot of backs do. He just doesn't get the chance. I realize that coach Mac will never be a 50/50 run pass guy but ya gotta keep em honest. Grant is getting a few mil this year. Time to wear him the fuck out and see what he can do.

[SnakeLH2006]

Snake won't mash words. Ryan Grant is not a good starting running back in the NFL. The Packer's OL is soft and gets pushed back at the point of attack and gives up sacks in bunches.

Taucher is back. I feel they wouldn't have resigned him unless he's a starter. He'll be the RT again soon. Ahman...I doubt he can be worse than Grant and the 3rd down phenom named Wynn at catching passes on 3rd down. Green looks healthy and I wouldn't doubt him. He's an ace pass-catcher at RB. Even with limited skills at 32, Green will push Grant for snaps if he's healthy. This can only help Grant (reduce carries), Barbre and Colledge (aka sieves for talented NFL passrushers).

What did Snake say? Yep. Bunch of doubters when I started this topic a few weeks back, but now Tauch is starting at RT and Ahman is contributing (never said he was gonna start but contribute on 3rd down, share some snaps, ST, etc).....exactly like I predicted.

Taucher starts....Ahman returns kicks, makes plays as a pass-catcher on 3rd down, and gets some snaps from Grant.