Seriously WTF?

[Zool]

I used to enjoy coming here and reading every thread and every post. Now I skim so much that it takes just a couple minutes to get through it all. The Packers are 4-2 and this place is a whining bitch fest in every single topic. Yes fine, ironic to be bitching about bitching I get it.

Does everyone just come here with their own specific opinion and agenda to push and throw it out repeatedly instead of having an actual conversation? Do you do this with people in real life of is this some sort of whipping post to vent your daily frustrations?

I'm actually sick of coming here and 2 years ago I NEVER thought that could happen. This place was lively, fun and interesting to read. Now its like I'm sitting in the middle of a fucking sewing circle listening to old bitties argue about which brand of stool softener works best. Stop ruining this site plz thx.

[MJZiggy]

Old bitties are much more genteel even when their stool softeners don't work. Seriously, you make an excellent point that I was just discussing earlier this evening. I feel exactly the same way.

[Partial]

Yeah dude I agree. I'm not going to get into what I think the problem is, but yeah, this place basically sucks now.

[bobblehead]

I honestly feel like I keep my posts within the realm of decent discussion. Yesterday you cracked on me in the NFC north thread when I was discussing the NFC north QB's. I have no clue at this point what is "good posting" and what sucks in most peoples opinion.

Sure, there are a few trolls posting here, and in any forum, but I'm not sure what you are looking for.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Old bitties are much more genteel even when their stool softeners don't work. Seriously, you make an excellent point that I was just discussing earlier this evening. I feel exactly the same way.

Disappointed to find you using "bitties" when the word is Biddy/biddies. My moral is at an all time low.

[MJZiggy]

I miss the sense of camaraderie. That people could play with one another a bit. There was a good naturedness that led to fantastic discussion that's missing. I used to come here every day and find stuff to laugh about and learn stuff too. When we switched to the 3-4, I figured I'd know it inside out by the time the season started, but I barely know anything about it. Everyone's too busy fighting to discuss it. Isn't good posting just a little common sense? Does common sense still exist?

[Scott Campbell]

I'd like to dedicate this to Harlan.



Memries,
Like the corners of my mind
Misty water-colored memories
Of the way we were
Scattered pictures,
Of the smiles we left behind
Smiles we gave to one another
For the way we were
Can it be that it was all so simple then?
Or has time re-written every line?
If we had the chance to do it all again
Tell me, would we? could we?
Memries, may be beautiful and yet
Whats too painful to remember
We simply choose to forget
So its the laughter
We will remember
Whenever we remember...
The way we were...
The way we were...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Zool,

I'm feeling ya. On a side note, is your friend in for the baseball league? I'd like to get the expansion draft going while the World Series is still going on.

Also, you still need to cut two players.

[gbgary]

it's all brett's fault.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/images/smilies/derisive.gif

[Brandon494]

it's all brett's fault.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/images/smilies/derisive.gif

Honestly that does have a lot to do with it.

[Partial]

^ That and that some people cannot let people have a differing opinion. There is such an attacking, spiteful attitude here.

Extending upon that, too much history documented here that people will go and throw in your face whenever you were wrong, etc.

[MJZiggy]

Great. We know how to bitch about it. So what are we gonna DO about it? (cause if we don't do something, we're gonna completely kill this forum.)

[Partial]

I miss the sense of camaraderie. That people could play with one another a bit. There was a good naturedness that led to fantastic discussion that's missing.

I told you guys this awhile ago and no one supported me. Basically every forum develops one of two attitudes.

A) an "we're all in this together so let's help eachother and get along"

-or-

B) a "This is the way it is, so get on board or else, my way or the highway" kind of dealy.

This forum used to be A. Since the Favre retirement it has been B.


I'm not really sure if there is a good way to fix it unless you get rid of a lot of the core people here to get some fresh opinions and less familiarity.

If it were my forum, I would think long and hard about the following options:

- Wiping the entire posting database. It's radical but it will get rid of the ability to go and dig a bunch of crap up and offer up basically a pseudo fresh start.

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.

- No personal attacks, rudeness, or prejudice posts of any type. Not even sarcastically.

[Scott Campbell]

If you think its bad this week, wait till next week. Either way there are going to be a bunch of people real unhappy about the outcome.

[Scott Campbell]

I miss the sense of camaraderie. That people could play with one another a bit. There was a good naturedness that led to fantastic discussion that's missing.

I told you guys this awhile ago and no one supported me. Basically every forum develops one of two attitudes.

A) an "we're all in this together so let's help eachother and get along"

-or-

B) a "This is the way it is, so get on board or else, my way or the highway" kind of dealy.

This forum used to be A. Since the Favre retirement it has been B.


I'm not really sure if there is a good way to fix it unless you get rid of a lot of the core people here to get some fresh opinions and less familiarity.

If it were my forum, I would think long and hard about the following options:

- Wiping the entire posting database. It's radical but it will get rid of the ability to go and dig a bunch of crap up and offer up basically a pseudo fresh start.

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.

- No personal attacks, rudeness, or prejudice posts of any type. Not even sarcastically.


www.packerchatters.com
www.p@ckeraddict.com




I just realized paranoid Madtown made it so you couldn't type www.p@ckeraddict.com. :lol:

[MadScientist]

it's all brett's fault.

So which Brett loving troll is Brett? :lol:

Seriously, this site has gone downhill quite a bit. I used to really enjoy the good football talk, especially the comments by the posters with real football experience. When I found PackerRats, I was hoping it would be to the Packers what Brewerfan.net is to the Brewers. (with the exception of the swearing ban they have).

There is still a desire to make this a great site again, but it will take some active work to get it there.

[wist43]

Despite my lightening rod status... I do agree :D

[Scott Campbell]

Yeah dude I agree. I'm not going to get into what I think the problem is, but yeah, this place basically sucks now.



You're not?




^ That and that some people cannot let people have a differing opinion. There is such an attacking, spiteful attitude here.

Extending upon that, too much history documented here that people will go and throw in your face whenever you were wrong, etc.



Hey, I thought you weren't going to get into what you think the problem is.





I miss the sense of camaraderie. That people could play with one another a bit. There was a good naturedness that led to fantastic discussion that's missing.

I told you guys this awhile ago and no one supported me. Basically every forum develops one of two attitudes.

A) an "we're all in this together so let's help eachother and get along"

-or-

B) a "This is the way it is, so get on board or else, my way or the highway" kind of dealy.

This forum used to be A. Since the Favre retirement it has been B.


I'm not really sure if there is a good way to fix it unless you get rid of a lot of the core people here to get some fresh opinions and less familiarity.

If it were my forum, I would think long and hard about the following options:

- Wiping the entire posting database. It's radical but it will get rid of the ability to go and dig a bunch of crap up and offer up basically a pseudo fresh start.

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.

- No personal attacks, rudeness, or prejudice posts of any type. Not even sarcastically.



How is getting rid of the historical threads going to solve the problem when you provide ample fodder in each thread?

[denverYooper]

If you think its bad this week, wait till next week. Either way there are going to be a bunch of people real unhappy about the outcome.

You know, I figured the collective apoplexy would be unbearable after Brent-Pack I. But I was wrong; it was much more civil here than I'd expected. It was cathartic, and some good football discussion broke out of the calm for a week or two.

Jeez, though, we win a few games and the shit hits the fan again. The signal to noise ratio faded again considerably back into the vague miasma of the paranoid. It's weird to me.

[MadtownPacker]

www.packerchatters.com
www.p@ckeraddict.com




I just realized paranoid Madtown made it so you couldn't type www.p@ckeraddict.com. :lol:Fuck you. That is because those fucks felt it was their right to tag this place up with that shit. See unlike your bandwagon jumping ass I only gave a fuck and still do in some ways about this forum alone. You on the other hand do nothing that is positive for it any more. You put those shit links up just as easily as you talked shit about this place on the new jso. For that alone you should get whacked.

You are nothing but a fucking bitch IMO. Yes you will come quick with a snappy comeback. So fucking what, the truth is you dont really give a fuck about this place. If you had any loyalty you would take that shit down.

[MadtownPacker]

Youre right Zool but if you dont see how you played a part youre not as cool as I have always thought. Maybe you should look in the mirror? Just about all of us will be guilty to some level. Maybe you let up with the one word post with dumb shit?

[Lurker64]

I think it would be interesting to do a Maquerade for Halloween wherein everybody's name, avatar, and sig were replaced by something (or somebody) else. I know there is bulletin board software that can do this, but I don't know if ours can. I wonder how we'd all interact without years of biases and history to base our interactions on. There seem to be some lightning rod posters who just attract negative attention based on their history, less the actual content of their posts.

[Partial]

I think it would be interesting to do a Maquerade for Halloween wherein everybody's name, avatar, and sig were replaced by something (or somebody) else. I know there is bulletin board software that can do this, but I don't know if ours can. I wonder how we'd all interact without years of biases and history to base our interactions on. There seem to be some lightning rod posters who just attract negative attention based on their history, less the actual content of their posts.

The problem with that is then everyone would know waht was going on and thus be cool.

I would <3 it if everyone had their name wiped and had to change it to something else.

If everyone started fresh you would be amazed (I would guess) at the difference it would make around here. Then, after a few weeks once it became clear who a few people were, it would go back to how things are now, though.

[MadScientist]

If it were my forum, I would think long and hard about the following options:

- Wiping the entire posting database. It's radical but it will get rid of the ability to go and dig a bunch of crap up and offer up basically a pseudo fresh start.

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.

- No personal attacks, rudeness, or prejudice posts of any type. Not even sarcastically.

How is getting rid of the historical threads going to solve the problem when you provide ample fodder in each thread?

There was a rash of bumps of old posts just to stir things up for 'I told you so' or 'see how wrong you were' type of posts. Deleting old post is a bit too radical, but locking all the old posts would help.

Active deleting of personal attack posts would help to end the flames before they start. As would locking posts that devolve. Standard rules for posting would also help.

[Rastak]

Well, I have to agree. One short post in this very thread is a prime example.

If Joe can find a way to get it back on track with help from some of the better posters, great. If not, the end is near from what I can see.

[MJZiggy]

Old bitties are much more genteel even when their stool softeners don't work. Seriously, you make an excellent point that I was just discussing earlier this evening. I feel exactly the same way.

Disappointed to find you using "bitties" when the word is Biddy/biddies. My moral is at an all time low.

Please read the first post again for the source.

Look, it can't be that difficult. Maybe when you find yourself making the fourth post in a circular argument that you see is going nowhere, it's time to agree to disagree? Maybe as a group, we police ourselves and not whine so much when someone suggests we're crossing a line when so-and-so wasn't corrected when he did it. So what? We all need to be talked off of our ledges every now and again--there's no need to get defensive about it. But the baiting each other and the hostile reactions are getting us nowhere. Hell, I used to tease folks all the time, now I hesitate except with a couple people because I never know who's going to blow up in my face.

Why do we NEED a moderator to control everything. This place was founded without a lot of moderation because we trusted the posters to have enough common sense not to be idiots with each other. And it worked for quite a while. So what happened?

I think we've forgotten that it's the people who make this place, and not just the ones we like.

[sheepshead]

Well Zool, one thing for sure-you can flush out the assholes with a thread like this, cantcha?

[pbmax]

Despite my lightening rod status... I do agree :D
No, you aren't a lightning rod. That's like blaming ballast for a balloon not rising. You serve to keep the rest of us kool-aid chuggers tethered to the potential reality that the Packers will not win the Super Bowl every year. :lol:

I think the main difference is that while there was sniping and hard feelings before, it did not take over entire threads. Harlan and Mad, Skin and a cast of thousands, Justin Harrell/Greg Jennings/Nick Collins and his multiple personalities (just joking JH), each had their battles, but (excepting Mad) each was funny in a way and short. Usually lasting a couple of posts. Now sniping goes on forever and other people pile on.

We need a bench penalty like in basketball. Leave the bench to join the fight, suspended for the next game. Participate in the fight longer than two posts each (without factual merit) miss the next week.

[SkinBasket]

Fuck you. That is because those fucks felt it was their right to tag this place up with that shit. See unlike your bandwagon jumping ass I only gave a fuck and still do in some ways about this forum alone. You on the other hand do nothing that is positive for it any more. You put those shit links up just as easily as you talked shit about this place on the new jso. For that alone you should get whacked.

You are nothing but a fucking bitch IMO. Yes you will come quick with a snappy comeback. So fucking what, the truth is you dont really give a fuck about this place. If you had any loyalty you would take that shit down.

Or maybe you could stop fucking dropping in just to curse and insult people before you gallop off on your burrow of injustice again. If you had any loyalty to the people who helped you build this place, maybe you wouldn't be such an ungrateful cocksucker.

As far as wiping the database or changing names, that sounds like a dumb idea. It would literally take 10 posts to figure out who most people are, and people like Partial are kidding themselves if they think people go after him because of his user name. The only way that works is if people like Partial start posting differently. And if that happens, then there's no need to wipe any database or change anyone's poster name. Problem solved.

I don't know what the overarching problem is, other than the fact that I corrupt children, I mean. But I agree that it's boring. I guess I would go back to when retail and Madtown banned lesbianism from the RR in the name of religious purity. I said then this place was on the way down. That censorship could only lead to blandness. It was a slippery slope of censorship and heavy handedness that continued to kill the interesting diversity here while common sense calls for practical measures like keeping all the Favre discussion in one thread were ignored until it was too late.

So that's my guess at why things suck lately. Too much owner intervention has driven off more interesting posters and squashed the interesting off topic discussions that used to keep people entertained when football news was slow or repetitive. And the Favre explosion was poorly handled at the same time. Lots of threats and owner/mod talk (which really only contributed to the toxic atmosphere) but no action until a lot of people got tired of it and left. Then when that was finally rectified... well we covered that last month.

[pbmax]

I think it would be interesting to do a Maquerade for Halloween wherein everybody's name, avatar, and sig were replaced by something (or somebody) else. I know there is bulletin board software that can do this, but I don't know if ours can. I wonder how we'd all interact without years of biases and history to base our interactions on. There seem to be some lightning rod posters who just attract negative attention based on their history, less the actual content of their posts.
I am not sure I like this. I don't want to take Fritz home by mistake after the masquerade party and get a surprise. :shock:

[mmmdk]

It's Viking week but that doesn't matter; that's an excellent window to what is going on.

I hope that Packer fans do show their team where the support is on sunday vs Vikings. If PR represents the state of all Packer fans then the homefield advantage is muted.

But hey, if you don't like the "two party system" of Packers vs Favre the Viking, then YOU need to change. Us vs them / Packers vs Vikings. Just for this game on sunday at least.

I know the rhetoric is as goofy as the wordy [b]W. but this is Viking week and it can't screw up the world.

PS - Read the LeRoy Butler article. I agree with Butler.

:pack:

[mission]

Funny to see who the biggest complainers ... errr, contributors in this thread are ...

Not Zool but onward ...

People definitely have an agenda and will go to great lengths to push it. Maybe I would more if I had more time to contribute my anti-Bert agenda but alas, I just don't...

That said, have you tried reading JSO, PackerNews comments, Packerchatters, etc?

I can't stand those places. You guys; at least it feels like bar argument.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Great. We know how to bitch about it. So what are we gonna DO about it? (cause if we don't do something, we're gonna completely kill this forum.)

It's easy: it's perfectly ok to disagree. It's perfectly ok to be passionate. It's perfectly ok to be opinionated. The key is to include respect when you make a post. No need to make it personally attacking when you disagree. Respectfully (and humorously) present your ideas and things go a lot better. I try to adapt my humor to whom it is intended. Some people appreciate more bite than others. Either way courtesy goes a long way in life.

[Scott Campbell]

www.packerchatters.com
www.p@ckeraddict.com




I just realized paranoid Madtown made it so you couldn't type www.p@ckeraddict.com. :lol:Fuck you. That is because those fucks felt it was their right to tag this place up with that shit. See unlike your bandwagon jumping ass I only gave a fuck and still do in some ways about this forum alone. You on the other hand do nothing that is positive for it any more. You put those shit links up just as easily as you talked shit about this place on the new jso. For that alone you should get whacked.

You are nothing but a fucking bitch IMO. Yes you will come quick with a snappy comeback. So fucking what, the truth is you dont really give a fuck about this place. If you had any loyalty you would take that shit down.



I got a 6 fuck response. Top that Skinbasket!

[SkinBasket]

I got a 6 fuck response. Top that Skinbasket!

But not one of those mexican words. He must be getting soft. Maybe he joined Zool's bitty circle and found the answers he's been looking for.

[sharpe1027]

Despite my lightening rod status... I do agree :D
No, you aren't a lightning rod. That's like blaming ballast for a balloon not rising. You serve to keep the rest of us kool-aid chuggers tethered to the potential reality that the Packers will not win the Super Bowl every year. :lol:


Lies!!!!

[pbmax]

One rule I used to use was to avoid posting a direct response to another poster if I was going to challenge the point. I would assiduously avoid the poster's name and the pronoun 'you'. If I was going to contradict, I addressed the post to the general position, not the poster.

If I was attempting to be humorous, I wouldn't be so careful. It might not be a bad tactic to resume.

[Partial]

One rule I used to use was to avoid posting a direct response to another poster if I was going to challenge the point. I would assiduously avoid the poster's name and the pronoun 'you'. If I was going to contradict, I addressed the post to the general position, not the poster.

If I was attempting to be humorous, I wouldn't be so careful. It might not be a bad tactic to resume.

You are wise. Like a banshee.

[sheepshead]

I would <3 it if everyone had their name wiped and had to change it to something else.


you would less than 3? what the hell is that?

[Administrator]

Interesting thread.

Rastak, if you're looking for me to solve what ails this forum, we're screwed. I can control a few folks, and ban a few, but I can't fix the discussion.

All of you have to do that. It's a choice you make each time you put your fingers on the keyboard. Am I going on the attack, or am I not? Is there something I can learn from reading this forum, or is my job to 'preach to the masses'? Is my point so critical that I'll defend it to the death, or does someone else have something to say that I hadn't thought of before?

I don't think this forum is 'dying' as much as it is changing. In the last couple of weeks, some folks are silently staging a protest of sorts. They aren't posting, but most are still reading. They haven't left, yet.

We'll see if they do. Time will tell. Right now, there are hoards and hoards of "guests" on this forum. I came on at 11:00 last night and there were 15 guests reading the forum. At 11PM. We've got plenty of traffic in spite of the claims that I'm not marketing enough. (which is true).

So, to the faithful posters here that see the forum "dying", I ask a question. Why are those guests not signing up and giving us their opinions, insight, and thoughts? I ask that both retorically and expecting responses.

To the guests that read this forum and have never signed up for an account. I'd love to hear why. Send me an email at administrator@packerrats.com. I'll keep it private if you wish, or I'll publish your thoughts if that's ok with you. If I get enough responses that allow me to share thoughts, I'll sticky them to the top of the forum so everyone can read what you think.

Long time posters? Lurkers? Like to hear what you think too.

[Deputy Nutz]

Ok, well I have finally come to the conclussion that Madtown is still a cocksucker, but he did a decent job with this place. He kept a recognizable voice in the world of the Packer Internet Forum discussion. People from other forums were actually stealing our shit.

A lot of things happed over the course of the past year, things people refused to let go and it really broke this place apart. Namely Favre, people that could agree on 90% of the stuff football related are now bitter enemies. Did Mad and his mods handle it correctly? Hard to say, I certainly wouldn't shove the entire blame pie at their feet. We wanted freedom to voice our opinions and argue with who ever we wanted, name call, and verbally abuse who ever, and when ever. I think Mad tried to stick to his rule, of no private info, but in the long run our own bullshit sufocated use.

This place used to be the best, maybe not the biggest but new additions always came here after having issues with JSO, and other places. Now we are losing posters to those places because we have become what we hated.

I always thought of this place as a waste of time, but addicting, now it is just boring, and I am not talking boring because I can't see a picture of two lesbos kissing in the romper room, I am talking boring because I just can't bring myself to discuss the same news and info with the same 15 people every day.

I used to write articles to promote this place and I always got good reviews, mostly. This place was going to be something, now you gotta know how to even find this place.

We once had bumber stickers.

[bobblehead]

I miss the sense of camaraderie. That people could play with one another a bit. There was a good naturedness that led to fantastic discussion that's missing. I used to come here every day and find stuff to laugh about and learn stuff too. When we switched to the 3-4, I figured I'd know it inside out by the time the season started, but I barely know anything about it. Everyone's too busy fighting to discuss it. Isn't good posting just a little common sense? Does common sense still exist?

I think PB (or KY maybe) had a great thread on the 3-4 when Dom was hired. I learned a lot from it. The info is there, and stifling discussion isn't going to help anyway. I think people need to ignore certain posters if they are bothered, or don't be bothered and bash them accordingly.

[SkinBasket]

So, to the faithful posters here that see the forum "dying", I ask a question. Why are those guests not signing up and giving us their opinions, insight, and thoughts? I ask that both retorically and expecting responses.

Don't forget that a portion - I have no idea how many - of those "guests" are just us when we're too lazy to sign in. When I just want to check the packer section, I don't sign in.

As far as not signing up, and for that matter, regulars not posting, I offer the AJ Hawk lovers thread as an example of why I don't post much in the Packer forum. There is a discussion to be had about his play versus his draft status and/or paycheck and his playing time. But the thread started in an asshole manner with the title, and has generally stayed the course from there - in large part due to one poster. People argue this poster's point and get a jerk-off emoticon in response followed by more baiting that's mainly someone using specific stats to back their personal opinion and ignoring any argument made against it. It's the kind of shit that gets responses because people get a little annoyed or riled up at the disingenuous nature of the posts, but it's not a healthy discussion of the points that are there to be argued. I don't think there's even a problem with insults being tossed around - as long as the discussions are being argued with some kind of intellectual honesty. That isn't happening a lot.

Intelligent contributions in a lot of threads are regularly disregarded, mocked, and insulted in unclever ways that don't even advance the argument. Why post anything substantive when all you're going to get back is a smiley face wanking off? As an aside, you could probably stand to get rid of that emoticon.

It goes back to what you say about personal accountability I guess. If that guy wants to be an asshole about something without really breaking any "rules," I guess we can't stop him. All we can do is not respond. Unfortunately, a lot of us aren't good at that.

[bobblehead]

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.


we already took it out of the romper room and put it in the FYI...seriously, don't fucking go in there. If you take away the FYI I'll leave for another site, politics is my main "hobby" other than football. I guess if I'm one you want to get rid of thats fine, but I would say by and large those of us who post in there don't let our feelings spill over to other forums.

I understand that Red and a few others despise politics so much that they wish them silenced, but seriously, the FYI is almost like another site entirely, why the need to eliminate it?

[rdanomly]

I don't think this forum is 'dying' as much as it is changing. In the last couple of weeks, some folks are silently staging a protest of sorts. They aren't posting, but most are still reading. They haven't left, yet.

We'll see if they do. Time will tell. Right now, there are hoards and hoards of "guests" on this forum. I came on at 11:00 last night and there were 15 guests reading the forum. At 11PM. We've got plenty of traffic in spite of the claims that I'm not marketing enough. (which is true).

So, to the faithful posters here that see the forum "dying", I ask a question. Why are those guests not signing up and giving us their opinions, insight, and thoughts? I ask that both retorically and expecting responses.

As a non-contributing lurker, I can't complain. Living out of Wisco & not dropping extra money for Dish packages I come here for first hand knowledge of what is going on with the team.

I wish I could watch every game & have something to say, but I can't so I rely on the better posters here for their insights. So thanks to those of you watching & thinking. I don't know what other sites are like now, but this environment is better than JSO at the time of the exodus.

With Favre playing somewhere else, at least I'll be able to watch the Pack play again this weekend.

[bobblehead]

I for one am going to try and do my part in this way. I'm not going to mention the vikings QB anytime other than this week since we are playing the vikes. If I need to use a QB as an example of what I'm talking about i'll use a different one.

I have no real new opinions on the guy anyway, and I won't pursuade anyone on him anymore than I'll get Ty to vote republican in the 2010 elections, so why bother.

[red]

awhile back a handfull of posters joined up together from jso. they stirred the pot and acted like complete assholes hen they got here. that caused posters here to act like complete assholes back. then it spread

those posters brought the bad shit from jso with them, no one was allowed an opposite opinion, and when someone was wrong about something, they got it shoved back in their faces

i think if we still would have had the old attitude, we would have survived the favre drama and whatnot

instead we went from a big happy family to a big shattered mess

i too have problems getting myself to even come on here these days

and some of the peple in this thread need to take a good hard look in the mirror

[MichiganPackerFan]

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.


we already took it out of the romper room and put it in the FYI...seriously, don't fucking go in there. If you take away the FYI I'll leave for another site, politics is my main "hobby" other than football. I guess if I'm one you want to get rid of thats fine, but I would say by and large those of us who post in there don't let our feelings spill over to other forums.

I understand that Red and a few others despise politics so much that they wish them silenced, but seriously, the FYI is almost like another site entirely, why the need to eliminate it?

Agreed. When the FYI thread began on JSO it was hard to ignore and consequently hard NOT to get heated. Here it's a totally separate section. I hit the romper and packers. I could care less about the rest and it takes my active effort if I wanted to investigate those areas.

[Fritz]

I think it would be interesting to do a Maquerade for Halloween wherein everybody's name, avatar, and sig were replaced by something (or somebody) else. I know there is bulletin board software that can do this, but I don't know if ours can. I wonder how we'd all interact without years of biases and history to base our interactions on. There seem to be some lightning rod posters who just attract negative attention based on their history, less the actual content of their posts.
I am not sure I like this. I don't want to take Fritz home by mistake after the masquerade party and get a surprise. :shock:

Are you Drew Barrymore?

[red]

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.


we already took it out of the romper room and put it in the FYI...seriously, don't fucking go in there. If you take away the FYI I'll leave for another site, politics is my main "hobby" other than football. I guess if I'm one you want to get rid of thats fine, but I would say by and large those of us who post in there don't let our feelings spill over to other forums.

I understand that Red and a few others despise politics so much that they wish them silenced, but seriously, the FYI is almost like another site entirely, why the need to eliminate it?

i don't despise it at all. i agree with partial on this. politics doesn't lead to a friendly environment. it never has and it never will. its always going to be a heated debate. i have been a member on many political sites and they all died, they turned to jumbled shit much like what we see here today

you just can't discuss politics online, it doesn't work. you'll never listen to anyone else and they'll never listen to you. its like yelling at a brick wall

PR never use to have political rambling and it use to be fine. then it showed up and YES IT DID, run over into every thing else in the forum. and that "i'm absolutely right, and you're absolutely wrong" mindset spread. some people like probably you, love that environment. but that was never packer rats

i will say i think things have gotten better since mad created your own room for that. but the fighting attitude had already spread and ruined the forum

political discussion is find=e, but on a forum it has to be separated and contained or it ill ruin a forum IMO. and thats from a lot of personal experience
IMO

[Cheesehead Craig]

So, to the faithful posters here that see the forum "dying", I ask a question. Why are those guests not signing up and giving us their opinions, insight, and thoughts? I ask that both retorically and expecting responses.

Don't forget that a portion - I have no idea how many - of those "guests" are just us when we're too lazy to sign in. When I just want to check the packer section, I don't sign in.

As far as not signing up, and for that matter, regulars not posting, I offer the AJ Hawk lovers thread as an example of why I don't post much in the Packer forum. There is a discussion to be had about his play versus his draft status and/or paycheck and his playing time. But the thread started in an asshole manner with the title, and has generally stayed the course from there - in large part due to one poster. People argue this poster's point and get a jerk-off emoticon in response followed by more baiting that's mainly someone using specific stats to back their personal opinion and ignoring any argument made against it. It's the kind of shit that gets responses because people get a little annoyed or riled up at the disingenuous nature of the posts, but it's not a healthy discussion of the points that are there to be argued. I don't think there's even a problem with insults being tossed around - as long as the discussions are being argued with some kind of intellectual honesty. That isn't happening a lot.

Intelligent contributions in a lot of threads are regularly disregarded, mocked, and insulted in unclever ways that don't even advance the argument. Why post anything substantive when all you're going to get back is a smiley face wanking off? As an aside, you could probably stand to get rid of that emoticon.

It goes back to what you say about personal accountability I guess. If that guy wants to be an asshole about something without really breaking any "rules," I guess we can't stop him. All we can do is not respond. Unfortunately, a lot of us aren't good at that.
Extremely well stated Skin.

[Deputy Nutz]

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.


we already took it out of the romper room and put it in the FYI...seriously, don't fucking go in there. If you take away the FYI I'll leave for another site, politics is my main "hobby" other than football. I guess if I'm one you want to get rid of thats fine, but I would say by and large those of us who post in there don't let our feelings spill over to other forums.

I understand that Red and a few others despise politics so much that they wish them silenced, but seriously, the FYI is almost like another site entirely, why the need to eliminate it?

i don't despise it at all. i agree with partial on this. politics doesn't lead to a friendly environment. it never has and it never will. its always going to be a heated debate. i have been a member on many political sites and they all died, they turned to jumbled shit much like what we see here today

you just can't discuss politics online, it doesn't work. you'll never listen to anyone else and they'll never listen to you. its like yelling at a brick wall

PR never use to have political rambling and it use to be fine. then it showed up and YES IT DID, run over into every thing else in the forum. and that "i'm absolutely right, and you're absolutely wrong" mindset spread. some people like probably you, love that environment. but that was never packer rats

i will say i think things have gotten better since mad created your own room for that. but the fighting attitude had already spread and ruined the forum

political discussion is find=e, but on a forum it has to be separated and contained or it ill ruin a forum IMO. and thats from a lot of personal experience
IMO

Really FYI is just a lot of banter at this point, if people really think they are going to change each other's minds in that forum then they are dumb nuts crazy.

I guess my feeling right now, and I mean this with no disrespect intended, but I feel like a child in a crummy daycare that shit my pants and allowed to stew in it all day. Nothing is being changed, nothing is being upgraded. Where the fuck is the baby powder?

[Zool]

Youre right Zool but if you dont see how you played a part youre not as cool as I have always thought. Maybe you should look in the mirror? Just about all of us will be guilty to some level. Maybe you let up with the one word post with dumb shit?

Yeah I know I haven't been as good of a contributor lately and I feel some blame for it. If I didn't give a fuck I wouldnt have even started this thread. If you think you're helping by coming here and berating 6-7 posters once a week then you're wrong as well. I've been trying to just throw out actual football talk lately and leave the other stuff for the GC.

I still love the other forums because they are what they were meant to be. The Romper Room is goofy and has no direct purpose but there is VERY little bickering. The FYI is a political forum so bickering is basically an understood thing there. Its specifically the Packer forum I'm referring to.

It should be the life blood of this place with everything else as a bonus and maybe its just me but it seems like the quantity of football posts has been going down and the sniping back and forth has gone up exponentially. Maybe that comes with having a larger readership?

It just seems to me that if someone doesn't have facts about a football topic but feels very strongly about it, they will argue to the death that their opinion is correct for whatever reason even when given 1000 facts to the contrary.

This whole thing is just my opinion though. I'm not trying to tell anyone else how to feel, I'm just venting because this place used to be perfect and it can be again. I know it can. I wish I knew exactly how but I don't claim to.

[mngolf19]

Old bitties are much more genteel even when their stool softeners don't work.

Experience? :wink:

[Rastak]

Interesting thread.

Rastak, if you're looking for me to solve what ails this forum, we're screwed. I can control a few folks, and ban a few, but I can't fix the discussion.

All of you have to do that.

Not a bad point.

[Partial]

- Outlaw all political posts, pornographic discussion/photos (even in garbage can). Politics never lead to a friendly environment.


we already took it out of the romper room and put it in the FYI...seriously, don't fucking go in there. If you take away the FYI I'll leave for another site, politics is my main "hobby" other than football. I guess if I'm one you want to get rid of thats fine, but I would say by and large those of us who post in there don't let our feelings spill over to other forums.

I understand that Red and a few others despise politics so much that they wish them silenced, but seriously, the FYI is almost like another site entirely, why the need to eliminate it?

It's not my site so obviously I don't have any say, but in my opinion anything off topic that isn't really light hearted leads to hurt feelings which leads to hostility.

[mmmdk]

Interesting thread.

Rastak, if you're looking for me to solve what ails this forum, we're screwed. I can control a few folks, and ban a few, but I can't fix the discussion.

All of you have to do that.

Not a bad point.

...so the glass is half full, Ras? With a broken glass? I, personally, can't make PR a better place but I'll try to not make it worse. OK?

[MichiganPackerFan]

Interesting thread.

Rastak, if you're looking for me to solve what ails this forum, we're screwed. I can control a few folks, and ban a few, but I can't fix the discussion.

All of you have to do that.

Not a bad point.

...so the glass is half full, Ras? With a broken glass? I, personally, can't make PR a better place but I'll try to not make it worse. OK?

Hey, we get everyone committed to that and we're in a much better place. Damage limited and opportunity to move forward. Im in!

[Brandon494]

As far as not signing up, and for that matter, regulars not posting, I offer the AJ Hawk lovers thread as an example of why I don't post much in the Packer forum. There is a discussion to be had about his play versus his draft status and/or paycheck and his playing time. But the thread started in an asshole manner with the title, and has generally stayed the course from there - in large part due to one poster. People argue this poster's point and get a jerk-off emoticon in response followed by more baiting that's mainly someone using specific stats to back their personal opinion and ignoring any argument made against it. It's the kind of shit that gets responses because people get a little annoyed or riled up at the disingenuous nature of the posts, but it's not a healthy discussion of the points that are there to be argued. I don't think there's even a problem with insults being tossed around - as long as the discussions are being argued with some kind of intellectual honesty. That isn't happening a lot.

Intelligent contributions in a lot of threads are regularly disregarded, mocked, and insulted in unclever ways that don't even advance the argument. Why post anything substantive when all you're going to get back is a smiley face wanking off? As an aside, you could probably stand to get rid of that emoticon.

It goes back to what you say about personal accountability I guess. If that guy wants to be an asshole about something without really breaking any "rules," I guess we can't stop him. All we can do is not respond. Unfortunately, a lot of us aren't good at that.

Give me a fucking break, maybe if you didn't quote everything I said with a jackass response I wouldn't be posting the "bs" emoticons.

Seriously someone with a smiling dick for their avatar really getting that pissed over a smiley face wanking off.

[MJZiggy]

Old bitties are much more genteel even when their stool softeners don't work.

Experience? :wink:

Observation. And with an 84-year old mother I have the bitties around to compare you ladies with.:taunt:

[mraynrand]

Two things make this a less attractive forum:

1) Flame wars - Sure the Favre situation completely contributed to this, but in general, it is the nature of the wars and the personalities who perpetuate them. In general, they shouldn't kill a site, so long as they don't infect too many threads. A little discipline might help - if you refute someone with facts, do it and be done with it. Don't add personal insults - they guarantee a response along the same lines. make your argument and get out - if you respond, try to stick to the subject and not evaluate the poster's relative mental abilities, etc. (in other words, avoid the personal attacks). This is why I left. I didn't enjoy the constant, repetitive, redundant personal attacks all over the forum, especially as I found myself making them/getting involved in them more often.

2) Content and acknowledgement of content providers. Patler, Waldo, etc. etc. actually provide interesting content that stands on it's own. I suspect, that with a front page with links to 'Patler's blog' (You can use my searchlight pic if you want), a column by Waldo (and an open link to his personal blog), Analysis by Nutz, guest columns, artwork by Skin (no porn), perhaps an tangentially off-topic column by Harlan or someone else, and maybe even a gameday chat with Cleft Crusty ON A LINKABLE front page you will change the appearance of the forum and make it more inviting and interesting. People who contribute content should get some kudos on a front page - and it will help make a name and personality for the forum. They heyday of the forum was when Mad and Zig were actively maintaining and updating the front page. Even when people started in the forum, a lot of things linked to the front page and you had people generating new content that was above the level of a thread titled "Donald Driver." The site needs to be actively maintained and the admin needs to actively pursue a growth strategy. I thank Mad (and others) for forming and maintaining the site. It's been a good source of info and fun and devastating distraction from my work. I hope the content people come back/are recruited back. I am still addicted to this site and haven't yet begun a 12 step program to quit viewing. But it's getting tempting.



BTW, I don't think Romper Room and FYI hurt the forum at all. In FYI, it was pretty much a small and consistent back and forth between a pretty well defined group that constituted a small percentage of the members (advice: if you hate political discussion, or it gets you riled up, stay out of FYI). Romper room was mostly respectful and often could be pretty funny - and informative. But again, you need the people to contribute, and they won't contribute in there if they hate coming to the site.

[packrulz]

Ever since Favre left I've noticed after a win it's quiet here, but after a loss there's all kinds of posts. Favre has polarized some of the fans. It's easy to bitch about what's wrong, and people feel strongly about wanting change will post the most, like Zool said, an agenda. There is a huge lack of respect and decorum here, and if you disagree with certain posters you're personally attacked. From my observation though, if you simply ignore the obnoxious posts, the poster will just fade away, or cool off.

[mmmdk]

Ever since Favre left I've noticed after a win it's quiet here, but after a loss there's all kinds of posts. Favre has polarized some of the fans. It's easy to bitch about what's wrong, and people feel strongly about wanting change will post the most, like Zool said, an agenda. There is a huge lack of respect and decorum here, and if you disagree with certain posters you're personally attacked. From my observation though, if you simply ignore the obnoxious posts, the poster will just fade away, or cool off.

Fine!

So who's the problem? Don't beat around the bush. Gimme names ! With that said; I think there will be a rift between who's seen as trouble and who's not.

The potential for bad behaviour was always there; one can't put the blame on the BF debacle. BF was/is at most a catalyst.

[gbpackfan]

Hmmm...wow, doesn't this topic sound familiar? I tried to bring this up after we beat St. Louis and almost everyone here was crapping all over the Packers. Most fans are not happy unless they are miserable. It really is sad. And coming here and ready about how crappy the Packers are game in and game out really gets old. But when I pointed this out, I was told I was just a kool-aid drinker and should be more realistic. Yawn. This has turned into a Packer hate site.

I don't come here much anymore, not that anyone gives a shit, for that reason.

Also, the owner of this site has completely lost control of what gets posted where. I come to the Packer area and the Packer area only, just to find it cluttered up with posts about other teams and non-Packer issues. Get a grip guy! Clean up your site!

[RashanGary]

The reason this place has turned into a shitty Packer Board is because there are very few Packer fans that are regulars here.

Retailguy
007
Bretsky
Mobb Deep
Nutz


These are all long time posters, many with past mod duties that don't like the Packers. These people bitch, whine, name call, and generally suck the fun out of being a Packer fan. These are Favre fans and a Sherman fan, not Packer fans.

Then there is the matter of being run by liars.

People who like the Packers have a hard time tolerating this type of garbage. These people belong in Viking boards for the most part. The Packer fans here should go too footballsfuture boards where they can enjoy rooting for their team with other Packer fans.

[RashanGary]

This is a great season and a lot of fun. The Packers are about to knock of the Vikings and put their team in the short list of NFL elite.

So many things are going good this season and it's so much fun to root for, but here, it's all about the old liar. It's all about bitching, whining and general doom and gloom. This place really is a shit hole.

[MichiganPackerFan]

JH, I've enjoyed what you've posted on football since I came back. I also really enjoy the posts by each and every one of the posters you listed.

There's really no posters that I dislike (except skin's video links. STILL scarred). I often see posters that have a bitter rivalry between them but still enjoy the good that each individual offers. Like everyone else, I get tired of a lot of the petty back and forth. Actually Partial's comment of deleting the history has some merit to it. I disagree that the history should be frozen, but I do think that historical arguments that people have had (especially in as bitterly divisive and emotional time in Packers history as there has ever been) lends itself to very limited patience between posters who have argued in the past. I quite often see people jump all over a post, not that there was anything in THAT post, but more that they've become irritated by something else that was posted or their experience with that particular poster. Maybe online wounds don't heal all that quickly...

[bobblehead]

JH, I've said many times I like your packer insight and willingness to delve into any topic and post/learn/educate, but calling out these posters doesn't help anything.

Mobb especially has gone a long way towards leaving BF alone and posting on the packers.

RG is also a true packer fan, he just doesn't think that the team is that good. His loyalty to the team isn't open to debate in my opinion.

007 and Bretsky loved Favre, nothing wrong with that. They were hurt and reacted accordingly when the team split. Pretty sure they are still packer fans, but they might also want to see BF do well.

Nutz...well, he is nutz. He might dish it towards TT and crew, but at least he doesn't get majorly offended when someone goes back at him. He has stated his position many times, no need for me to rehash it. He doesn't like the front office right now and wants it to change. He has his right to his opinion.

This post by you however can only incite. It can't do anything else. You are calling out a handful of posters for no good reason than having loved BF and still having a bit of loyalty to him.

When they post overboard undying love for BF refute it with facts. Stick to what happened in the split...better yet ignore it. Are they BF fans FIRST...I doubt that. They view the situation differently than you or I, but other than nutz wanting favre to get his revenge, I think most every packer fan on this board still wants the packers in the superbowl.

[Brandon494]

Hmmm...wow, doesn't this topic sound familiar? I tried to bring this up after we beat St. Louis and almost everyone here was crapping all over the Packers. Most fans are not happy unless they are miserable. It really is sad. And coming here and ready about how crappy the Packers are game in and game out really gets old. But when I pointed this out, I was told I was just a kool-aid drinker and should be more realistic. Yawn. This has turned into a Packer hate site.

I don't come here much anymore, not that anyone gives a shit, for that reason.

Also, the owner of this site has completely lost control of what gets posted where. I come to the Packer area and the Packer area only, just to find it cluttered up with posts about other teams and non-Packer issues. Get a grip guy! Clean up your site!

Its not just this Packer board man, I got ban from Packer Report Forum for being "too positive". Seriously, what kinda shit is that? There are two type of packer fans, the ones who support TT and the team and the ones who hate him no matter what because they feel he is the reason Favre is no longer a Packer. I havent seen it on this board as much but on other forums you have GB fans hoping we lose this season to get rid of TT which is patheitc. Thank god Aaron Rodgers has been playing as well as he has since taking over for Favre, and thats still not enough for some fans. I couldn't imagine how bad things would have gone if he would have turned out to be another Joey Harrington.

[channtheman]

Hmmm...wow, doesn't this topic sound familiar? I tried to bring this up after we beat St. Louis and almost everyone here was crapping all over the Packers. Most fans are not happy unless they are miserable. It really is sad. And coming here and ready about how crappy the Packers are game in and game out really gets old. But when I pointed this out, I was told I was just a kool-aid drinker and should be more realistic. Yawn. This has turned into a Packer hate site.

I don't come here much anymore, not that anyone gives a shit, for that reason.

Also, the owner of this site has completely lost control of what gets posted where. I come to the Packer area and the Packer area only, just to find it cluttered up with posts about other teams and non-Packer issues. Get a grip guy! Clean up your site!

Its not just this Packer board man, I got ban from Packer Report Forum for being "too positive". Seriously, what kinda shit is that? There are two type of packer fans, the ones who support TT and the team and the ones who hate him no matter what because they feel he is the reason Favre is no longer a Packer. I havent seen it on this board as much but on other forums you have GB fans hoping we lose this season to get rid of TT which is patheitc. Thank god for Aaron Rodgers has been playing as well as he has since taking over for Favre, and thats still not enough for some fans. I couldn't imagine how bad things would have gone if he would have turned out to be another Joey Harrington.

It's a tough issue to understand but I know how they feel because I feel the same way about the Badgers and Bielema. I don't like him as a coach and wish he was fired, but I don't want the team to struggle. I guess I don't feel exactly the same way. I can understand how they don't like TT or MM but I would never want the team to struggle to get rid of them.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I think there's a middle ground too. Not all of TT's choices are good, not all are bad. Not all of the players and not all suck hairy donkey balls. Personally, I'm a big AR fan, but that doesn't mean I don't think he hasn't gotten the ball out fast enough and I certainly don't think he's responsible for all the sacks. I don't think that wins vs Detroit and Cleveland put us in the elite, but I saw signs of things in those games that could lead to that.

Lots of grey areas provide wonderful opportunities for discussion. Personally I don't thinks stats prove what will happen, but can be a good indication of it. That's why they play the games!!

I really enjoy the posters that can explain why plays are designed and how they work. I'm also trying like hell to understand the more technical side of things. The more I learn, the less I know!! Anyway, where else would I find the differing opinions?

[Freak Out]

Who the hell are you Harrell to tell people how to be a Packer fan?

Everyone's view of the world is a little bit different and people need to understand that. Were rarely ever going to be of the same point of view but that's what this is all about right?

[Waldo]

1) It is the nature of message boards to debate, to stir this type of conversation. Without debate there is very little to actually talk about amongst fans of a single team.

2) People have an affinity to align themselves with certain sides of an argument, via debate style, even if it doesn't match personal belief, just to debate that side. (I do this A LOT)

3) Call outers never forget, and will call out flip flopping on issues, they extend debates to eternity. This group often isn't actually good at debating often, instead sinking in the claws months or years later (I am especially bad with this group, as I often do not debate on behalf of personal belief, therefore flip flop at will over time).

4) Never been a fan of the blockhead, stone deaf, personality that each board has. Don't know why every single one does. That guy that is missing several key pieces of information seemingly, and almost comes from a clueless position, but will defend it to the death, never giving in, and never swayed by any argument.

Packer fans have by and large separated into a 2 party system, each with a totally different ethos and view of the game (and fitting the Democrat/Republican stereotypes quite well). There are very few, if any, message boards where they coexist, and where they do, often it is only via strong moderation or taboo subjects. (Again, I rarely talk BF here, I doubt there is anybody here that despises him more than me, that just isn't productive to talk about).

[SkinBasket]

Give me a fucking break, maybe if you didn't quote everything I said with a jackass response I wouldn't be posting the "bs" emoticons.

Seriously someone with a smiling dick for their avatar really getting that pissed over a smiley face wanking off.

This is pretty much what I'm talking about. There are some posters who take an argument against them as a "jackass response" or an attack on their intelligence.

No one said I'm mad about anything. Just that the lack of intellectual honesty had led to a degeneration of any kind of sustainable interesting or entertaining debate around here.

Like Zool said, some people aren't interested in hearing arguments against them apparently. They just want to spend page after page ranting about something or someone and I guess all they expect is a bunch of people nodding their heads and patting them on the back. When they don't get that, they act all surly and feel justified in crapping all over whoever dares offer a rebuttal.

[CaptainKickass]

Content and acknowledgement of content providers. Patler, Waldo, etc. etc. actually provide interesting content that stands on it's own. I suspect, that with a front page with links to 'Patler's blog' (You can use my searchlight pic if you want), a column by Waldo (and an open link to his personal blog), Analysis by Nutz, guest columns, artwork by Skin (no porn), perhaps an tangentially off-topic column by Harlan or someone else, and maybe even a gameday chat with Cleft Crusty ON A LINKABLE front page you will change the appearance of the forum and make it more inviting and interesting. People who contribute content should get some kudos on a front page - and it will help make a name and personality for the forum. They heyday of the forum was when Mad and Zig were actively maintaining and updating the front page. Even when people started in the forum, a lot of things linked to the front page and you had people generating new content that was above the level of a thread titled "Donald Driver."

My humble opinion of course, but the above is pretty damn close to my position.

A few elaborations:

There used to be weekly columns written by posters on the front page. There were also weekly threads like "winners and losers" or whatever the hell it was called. I even recall a contest or 2 with actual prizes.

I also recall posters who were local to GB putting up photos & video to go along with their posts/columns and even non-locals doing the same for their Packer experiences. Hell - that's what made me even think of bringing my camera to a west coast Packer game I attended. Then I posted up the photos I took. Now, I wasn't nearly as good at it as some others, but based on the response, at least several other posters enjoyed them too.

I also recall someone getting exclusive chat time with players and/or reps of the Packer org, then taking questions from the posters and allowing them to answer. Almost like a live chat/Q&A of our own.

There's a certain lack of the use of technology here now. Used to be if someone had photos or vids to share, someone else would step up to help get the content posted. Now it seems that everyone's afraid.

As for contributing, I don't have nearly the time I used to, but when I do it comes in bunches. Sure there's certain poster personalities here I don't "like" but I keep my distance because none of you are any more real to me than any character on TV. That's not an insult - it's just that I come here strictly for entertainment. When I watch my favorite TV show - there's characters I like and characters I don't. It doesn't mean the show is any less my favorite.

I often feel like some of you take this posting anonymously on a public web forum waaaayyyyy too seriously.

Learn to laugh at yourselves a little more - you just might have more fun.

[HowardRoark]

Content and acknowledgement of content providers. Patler, Waldo, etc. etc. actually provide interesting content that stands on it's own. I suspect, that with a front page with links to 'Patler's blog' (You can use my searchlight pic if you want), a column by Waldo (and an open link to his personal blog), Analysis by Nutz, guest columns, artwork by Skin (no porn), perhaps an tangentially off-topic column by Harlan or someone else, and maybe even a gameday chat with Cleft Crusty ON A LINKABLE front page you will change the appearance of the forum and make it more inviting and interesting. People who contribute content should get some kudos on a front page - and it will help make a name and personality for the forum. They heyday of the forum was when Mad and Zig were actively maintaining and updating the front page. Even when people started in the forum, a lot of things linked to the front page and you had people generating new content that was above the level of a thread titled "Donald Driver."

My humble opinion of course, but the above is pretty damn close to my position.

A few elaborations:

There used to be weekly columns written by posters on the front page. There were also weekly threads like "winners and losers" or whatever the hell it was called. I even recall a contest or 2 with actual prizes.

I also recall posters who were local to GB putting up photos & video to go along with their posts/columns and even non-locals doing the same for their Packer experiences. Hell - that's what made me even think of bringing my camera to a west coast Packer game I attended. Then I posted up the photos I took. Now, I wasn't nearly as good at it as some others, but based on the response, at least several other posters enjoyed them too.

I also recall someone getting exclusive chat time with players and/or reps of the Packer org, then taking questions from the posters and allowing them to answer. Almost like a live chat/Q&A of our own.

There's a certain lack of the use of technology here now. Used to be if someone had photos or vids to share, someone else would step up to help get the content posted. Now it seems that everyone's afraid.

As for contributing, I don't have nearly the time I used to, but when I do it comes in bunches. Sure there's certain poster personalities here I don't "like" but I keep my distance because none of you are any more real to me than any character on TV. That's not an insult - it's just that I come here strictly for entertainment. When I watch my favorite TV show - there's characters I like and characters I don't. It doesn't mean the show is any less my favorite.

I often feel like some of you take this posting anonymously on a public web forum waaaayyyyy too seriously.

Learn to laugh at yourselves a little more - you just might have more fun.

Kudos on an excellent post.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Old bitties are much more genteel even when their stool softeners don't work. Seriously, you make an excellent point that I was just discussing earlier this evening. I feel exactly the same way.

Disappointed to find you using "bitties" when the word is Biddy/biddies. My moral is at an all time low.

Please read the first post again for the source.

.

Repeating someone else's mistake is your excuse? I thought you were better than that, guess i was wrong.

Just admit, you didn't know it. Show some morales.

[Noodle]

Repeating someone else's mistake is your excuse? I thought you were better than that, guess i was wrong.

Just admit, you didn't know it. Show some morales.

It's possible that this post was made in this thread out of a sense of irony.

It's possible.

But I'm not sure the timing is quite right (and yes, I recall the dead-and-buried moral v. morale thread, one of the more edifying exchanges on this board).

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I for one am going to try and do my part in this way. I'm not going to mention the vikings QB anytime other than this week since we are playing the vikes. If I need to use a QB as an example of what I'm talking about i'll use a different one.

I have no real new opinions on the guy anyway, and I won't pursuade anyone on him anymore than I'll get Ty to vote republican in the 2010 elections, so why bother.

If the republican candidate puts out cheesecake photos like Meghan McCain did and has large winnebagoes...TY VOTES REPUBLICAN!

Make it happen, Bobble. Make it happen.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

awhile back a handfull of posters joined up together from jso. they stirred the pot and acted like complete assholes hen they got here. that caused posters here to act like complete assholes back. then it spread

those posters brought the bad shit from jso with them, no one was allowed an opposite opinion, and when someone was wrong about something, they got it shoved back in their faces

i think if we still would have had the old attitude, we would have survived the favre drama and whatnot

instead we went from a big happy family to a big shattered mess

i too have problems getting myself to even come on here these days

and some of the peple in this thread need to take a good hard look in the mirror

QFT.

Ty said the same thing.

[Brandon494]

This is pretty much what I'm talking about. There are some posters who take an argument against them as a "jackass response" or an attack on their intelligence.

No one said I'm mad about anything. Just that the lack of intellectual honesty had led to a degeneration of any kind of sustainable interesting or entertaining debate around here.


Excellent use of logic and reasoning. Your numbers are off and your logic is non-existent, but otherwise great effort. Really. Normally you guys bag my cans with my vegetables (and very slowly I might add), so I consider this an improvement.


I laughed. Then I cried. Then I laughed again. Then I puked, giggled, and cried some more. Thanks Branden420, you're a hoot.


SHOWTIME!!! If we don't come away with 6 INTs, 10 FF, 5+ recoveries, 10 TFL, 25 passes defensed, and 12 sacks per game, our defense is obviously a disappointment.


Maybe your expectations shouldn't be based on where a guy is drafted. That might help with some of your disappointment. Unless you're also disappointed that Donald Driver hasn't played the way a 7th round pick should play. But I accept your apology regardless.


Like the troll will still be here.

I don't think I was talking to you in any of those respones yet you had to come in with your "jackass response" because you didnt agree what I was saying about Hawk. Get over yourself, your doing exactly what your bitching about.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Repeating someone else's mistake is your excuse? I thought you were better than that, guess i was wrong.

Just admit, you didn't know it. Show some morales.

It's possible that this post was made in this thread out of a sense of irony.

It's possible.

But I'm not sure the timing is quite right (and yes, I recall the dead-and-buried moral v. morale thread, one of the more edifying exchanges on this board).

She knows i'm teasing her.

Timing? jesus, this is a message board. Nobody is dying of cancer. Like the Cap'n said, some take this way too seriously.

But, i do acknowledge your point.

[mmmdk]

Content and acknowledgement of content providers. Patler, Waldo, etc. etc. actually provide interesting content that stands on it's own. I suspect, that with a front page with links to 'Patler's blog' (You can use my searchlight pic if you want), a column by Waldo (and an open link to his personal blog), Analysis by Nutz, guest columns, artwork by Skin (no porn), perhaps an tangentially off-topic column by Harlan or someone else, and maybe even a gameday chat with Cleft Crusty ON A LINKABLE front page you will change the appearance of the forum and make it more inviting and interesting. People who contribute content should get some kudos on a front page - and it will help make a name and personality for the forum. They heyday of the forum was when Mad and Zig were actively maintaining and updating the front page. Even when people started in the forum, a lot of things linked to the front page and you had people generating new content that was above the level of a thread titled "Donald Driver."

My humble opinion of course, but the above is pretty damn close to my position.

A few elaborations:

There used to be weekly columns written by posters on the front page. There were also weekly threads like "winners and losers" or whatever the hell it was called. I even recall a contest or 2 with actual prizes.

I also recall posters who were local to GB putting up photos & video to go along with their posts/columns and even non-locals doing the same for their Packer experiences. Hell - that's what made me even think of bringing my camera to a west coast Packer game I attended. Then I posted up the photos I took. Now, I wasn't nearly as good at it as some others, but based on the response, at least several other posters enjoyed them too.

I also recall someone getting exclusive chat time with players and/or reps of the Packer org, then taking questions from the posters and allowing them to answer. Almost like a live chat/Q&A of our own.

There's a certain lack of the use of technology here now. Used to be if someone had photos or vids to share, someone else would step up to help get the content posted. Now it seems that everyone's afraid.

As for contributing, I don't have nearly the time I used to, but when I do it comes in bunches. Sure there's certain poster personalities here I don't "like" but I keep my distance because none of you are any more real to me than any character on TV. That's not an insult - it's just that I come here strictly for entertainment. When I watch my favorite TV show - there's characters I like and characters I don't. It doesn't mean the show is any less my favorite.

I often feel like some of you take this posting anonymously on a public web forum waaaayyyyy too seriously.

Learn to laugh at yourselves a little more - you just might have more fun.

Kick ass observation ! That would put the Packers back into rats.com too.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

JH, I've said many times I like your packer insight and willingness to delve into any topic and post/learn/educate, but calling out these posters doesn't help anything.

Mobb especially has gone a long way towards leaving BF alone and posting on the packers.

RG is also a true packer fan, he just doesn't think that the team is that good. His loyalty to the team isn't open to debate in my opinion.

007 and Bretsky loved Favre, nothing wrong with that. They were hurt and reacted accordingly when the team split. Pretty sure they are still packer fans, but they might also want to see BF do well.

Nutz...well, he is nutz. He might dish it towards TT and crew, but at least he doesn't get majorly offended when someone goes back at him. He has stated his position many times, no need for me to rehash it. He doesn't like the front office right now and wants it to change. He has his right to his opinion.

This post by you however can only incite. It can't do anything else. You are calling out a handful of posters for no good reason than having loved BF and still having a bit of loyalty to him.

When they post overboard undying love for BF refute it with facts. Stick to what happened in the split...better yet ignore it. Are they BF fans FIRST...I doubt that. They view the situation differently than you or I, but other than nutz wanting favre to get his revenge, I think most every packer fan on this board still wants the packers in the superbowl.

RG is a true fan? Ok. But, it is amazing how his posts decline when the packers are winning. If he can't bitch about TT, the OL, etc....then you rarely see him.

He is like Merlin. Anybody notice that he isn't around anymore. Of course he isn't here...but, i guarantee you that if we lose against the Vikes he will be here.

Posters asking about the Vikes game and then posting they are disappointed it isn't on TV. Fuck that. Game was at the same time as packers.

Certain poster, forgot who, mentioned the haters...and this site is/was full of them. Fuck, you had Merlin with an avatar of Favre as a jet. WTF?

Mobb. He is ok. But, his constant pimping of Favre and others....like Sharper is annoying. Personal discussions with Rastak on this board about the Vikes. FUCK THAT. You wanna discuss the Vikes..do it on a Vikes message board or thru PM. Mobb would rather discuss anything but the pack...vick, sharper, etc. LORD FAVRE!!!!!!

Bretsky. No issue.

007. Clearly a Favre fan. Went to Iowa. She is suspect.

Nutz. His position is clear. It isn't pro packer, and his posts will cause problems.

That being said, Ty isn't suggesting the leave or be banned. What ty is saying is let's call a spade a spade. You want to call me an asshole. Fine. Ty is an asshole. BUT NO ONE QUESTIONS MY LOYALTY TO THE PACK. Several of these posters and others clearly have demonstrated that they aren't packer fans.

Ty agrees with much of what Skin wrote about. Skin and Ty don't agree on many things, but we both have strong bs detectors.

The Favre shit was ridiculous. And, in a Packer Game Day thread discussions of Favre are UNACCEPTABLE. Ty was criticized for saying that. RIDICULOUS. You may not like Ty, but that doesn't mean Ty doesn't have a point. If you can't follow the game day thread without hearing and discussing Favre....where can you? Is there so little to discuss about the pack (new defense, OL struggles, jennings early struggles, Tausch, Lang, Grant,etc.) that we need to discuss Favre.

Fuck, there is a whole thread devoted to Favre. There is a Sharper Shake thread where Mobb mentally masturbates in. Look, you can start a thread, BUT THEN LET IT RUN ITS COURSE AND DIE. Same people bumping their non packer threads.

If anyone attempts to show some order and restraint they are criticized..regardless of who they are. Zool tried to keep the QB numbers thread clean...and of course 007 argued against it.

this place was some good fun for a long time. Then, a certain # of posters arrived. They changed the attitude of the place. The RR use to have tons of good threads....gone. Barely any fun in there at all.

Maybe what we had was special and couldn't last.

THis is kind of a rant. No one is suppose to be offended.

[Brandon494]

Like what was said in the gameday thread, the game was pretty much over man. I mean half the staduim had left at halftime and with only 3 minutes left in the game the Packers were just running out the clock. I don't see what the big deal is about discussing a game that will have a huge impact on the next game we play against the Vikings. Its not like we were cheering for Favre to win against the Steelers, everyone was cheering when Favre fumbled and threw the INT.

[Bossman641]

Content and acknowledgement of content providers. Patler, Waldo, etc. etc. actually provide interesting content that stands on it's own. I suspect, that with a front page with links to 'Patler's blog' (You can use my searchlight pic if you want), a column by Waldo (and an open link to his personal blog), Analysis by Nutz, guest columns, artwork by Skin (no porn), perhaps an tangentially off-topic column by Harlan or someone else, and maybe even a gameday chat with Cleft Crusty ON A LINKABLE front page you will change the appearance of the forum and make it more inviting and interesting. People who contribute content should get some kudos on a front page - and it will help make a name and personality for the forum. They heyday of the forum was when Mad and Zig were actively maintaining and updating the front page. Even when people started in the forum, a lot of things linked to the front page and you had people generating new content that was above the level of a thread titled "Donald Driver."

I often feel like some of you take this posting anonymously on a public web forum waaaayyyyy too seriously.

Learn to laugh at yourselves a little more - you just might have more fun.

I agree with this 100%. I cannot get over the number of people here who will just argue and argue and argue. It doesn't bother me, or make me want to leave, I just see it as a tremendous waste of time.

I'm beginning to think something is wrong with me that I haven't had a knockdown, drag it out fight. :cry:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Like what was said in the gameday thread, the game was pretty much over man. I mean half the staduim had left at halftime and with only 3 minutes left in the game the Packers were just running out the clock. I don't see what the big deal is about discussing a game that will have a huge impact on the next game we play against the Vikings. Its not like we were cheering for Favre to win against the Steelers, everyone was cheering when Favre fumbled and threw the INT.

Stop defending what you did. You are wrong. As PB said, there has been an alternate game day thread.

Apply your logic to other points of the game. Surely there is nothing wrong with posting as the game begins...nothing is happening yet. What about halftime? What about commercial breaks.

The gameday thread is about the GAME. What is hard to understand? Posts are about the GAME. You wanna post different stuff...there are multiple threads for it.

If you can't see the need to keep a thread clean, then there is really no need to discuss it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud? I never mentioned anyone in my posts in this thread other to say positive things about them, such as when I called Mad a cocksucker.

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers. I will call it like I see it and I am happy to be in that position. I have a lot less grief in my life.

anyways, some need to relax.

Ignore.

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

[Brando19]

Too much fighting and whining. I've been guilty of it as well. I believe there's too many rivalries on this site. Certain posters have had cross words with others and just can't forgive them. Ty and myself had a little feud and he had me so pissed off...then I realized this is just a forum and it's not like he punched me in the face. It was silly, I got too riled up and now I think Ty is one of the funniest posters...he's funny as hell. We need to let things slide on this site and remember this is just a forum...don't hold grudges. Don't go off if you feel someone views something a little different than you do...noone's the same. This forum has the potential to be the best football forum on the internet...the posters here are excellent. We just need to clean up a few things. In the words of Rodney King, "Can't We All Just Get Along?"

[MJZiggy]

I had the thought that perhaps we just need to make some of those word substitutions that some forums do to replace swear words. Favre becomes "he who shall not be named" a la Voldemort and all of the iterations of common insults (idiot, moron, asshole, etc.) become silly ultrafeminine words a prepubescent girl might use. Might not solve much, but at least if a flame war starts, the rest of us have something entertaining to read...

[Brando19]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud? I never mentioned anyone in my posts in this thread other to say positive things about them, such as when I called Mad a cocksucker.

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers. I will call it like I see it and I am happy to be in that position. I have a lot less grief in my life.

anyways, some need to relax.

Ignore.

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

Listen...you barely beat me in Fantasy Football this week and I know I intimidated you and you fear me...but why do you want to drag my mother into it? :lol:

[mmmdk]

I had the thought that perhaps we just need to make some of those word substitutions that some forums do to replace swear words. Favre becomes "he who shall not be named" a la Voldemort and all of the iterations of common insults (idiot, moron, asshole, etc.) become silly ultrafeminine words a prepubescent girl might use. Might not solve much, but at least if a flame war starts, the rest of us have something entertaining to read...

Funny stuff :lol:

[MichiganPackerFan]

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

C'mon dude, I SAID I was SORRY :D

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud? I never mentioned anyone in my posts in this thread other to say positive things about them, such as when I called Mad a cocksucker.

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers. I will call it like I see it and I am happy to be in that position. I have a lot less grief in my life.

anyways, some need to relax.

Ignore.

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

Nutz, i apologize for using your name. As stated, i don't want to see you leave or banned.

I was just commenting on 2 previous posts.

P.S. You can say nasty stuff about my mom. I don't like her very much.

[Brandon494]

Like what was said in the gameday thread, the game was pretty much over man. I mean half the staduim had left at halftime and with only 3 minutes left in the game the Packers were just running out the clock. I don't see what the big deal is about discussing a game that will have a huge impact on the next game we play against the Vikings. Its not like we were cheering for Favre to win against the Steelers, everyone was cheering when Favre fumbled and threw the INT.

Stop defending what you did. You are wrong. As PB said, there has been an alternate game day thread.

Apply your logic to other points of the game. Surely there is nothing wrong with posting as the game begins...nothing is happening yet. What about halftime? What about commercial breaks.

The gameday thread is about the GAME. What is hard to understand? Posts are about the GAME. You wanna post different stuff...there are multiple threads for it.

If you can't see the need to keep a thread clean, then there is really no need to discuss it.

Aight man, I'm not going to even get into something so stupid.

[Partial]

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

:hug: :whaa:

[Deputy Nutz]

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

C'mon dude, I SAID I was SORRY :D

Your Mom!

But lets not get off topic.

[Deputy Nutz]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud? I never mentioned anyone in my posts in this thread other to say positive things about them, such as when I called Mad a cocksucker.

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers. I will call it like I see it and I am happy to be in that position. I have a lot less grief in my life.

anyways, some need to relax.

Ignore.

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

Nutz, i apologize for using your name. As stated, i don't want to see you leave or banned.

I was just commenting on 2 previous posts.

P.S. You can say nasty stuff about my mom. I don't like her very much.

I love it when you put my name in print. It does something to my heart.

[MJZiggy]

I had the thought that perhaps we just need to make some of those word substitutions that some forums do to replace swear words. Favre becomes "he who shall not be named" a la Voldemort and all of the iterations of common insults (idiot, moron, asshole, etc.) become silly ultrafeminine words a prepubescent girl might use. Might not solve much, but at least if a flame war starts, the rest of us have something entertaining to read...

Funny stuff :lol:

Are you suggesting I was kidding? How fast would a flame war die out if someone thought you were unicorn daisies for thinking that he who shall not be named wasn't the best.

[Partial]

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

C'mon dude, I SAID I was SORRY :D

Your Mom!

But lets not get off topic.

To be fair, the whole topic is dumb. "Nothing ever changes". It's all rumor. It has been an interesting read to hear what some people thought of the articles, etc. I personally was not a huge fan but if that's what some people like than that is what this place should have.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Like what was said in the gameday thread, the game was pretty much over man. I mean half the staduim had left at halftime and with only 3 minutes left in the game the Packers were just running out the clock. I don't see what the big deal is about discussing a game that will have a huge impact on the next game we play against the Vikings. Its not like we were cheering for Favre to win against the Steelers, everyone was cheering when Favre fumbled and threw the INT.

Stop defending what you did. You are wrong. As PB said, there has been an alternate game day thread.

Apply your logic to other points of the game. Surely there is nothing wrong with posting as the game begins...nothing is happening yet. What about halftime? What about commercial breaks.

The gameday thread is about the GAME. What is hard to understand? Posts are about the GAME. You wanna post different stuff...there are multiple threads for it.

If you can't see the need to keep a thread clean, then there is really no need to discuss it.

Aight man, I'm not going to even get into something so stupid.

I realize it sounds stupid to you. I get that. WHat i don't think you get is that some of us just want a refuge from Favre. And, if we can't get it in the game day thread...then i guess we can't post on this board.

Ty watches the game on his computer. Ty wants to read the astute observations of PB and others. Sucks, donkey balls to have to go thru 2 pages of Favre shit and not find a post about the pack...then, go back cause you think you might have missed it.

Ty isn't asking for much.

[Deputy Nutz]

Partial you are not making any sense. Your post has nothing to do with what you quoted

[MichiganPackerFan]

Ty, I was in total disagreement with you about the Favre/Min-Pit intrusion into the gameday thread. The first half of our game was great, but damn the second half was boring. MIN-PIT had a good one going so people started watching that. However, your point about picking a "refuge from Favre" is completely valid. I got sooooo sick of hearing about it on ESPN and mass media (exponentially exploded the issue). THat's a big reason I came back here after a few years away: to focus on the Pack. I get now why you were so irritated with it then. There's a lot of non-Packer football that is worth discussing, and I'd rather discuss it with people I "know". Ras as a Vikings fan has had good contributions here since way back on JSO. And both our Bears fans showed up today to take their lumps (not that much was given out, the Bears probably did enough themselves. But the non gameday conversation could have easily been held the conversation in the non-pack gameday thread.

[Scott Campbell]

I miss Harlan.

[mmmdk]

Ty, I was in total disagreement with you about the Favre/Min-Pit intrusion into the gameday thread. The first half of our game was great, but damn the second half was boring. MIN-PIT had a good one going so people started watching that. However, your point about picking a "refuge from Favre" is completely valid. I got sooooo sick of hearing about it on ESPN and mass media (exponentially exploded the issue). THat's a big reason I came back here after a few years away: to focus on the Pack. I get now why you were so irritated with it then. There's a lot of non-Packer football that is worth discussing, and I'd rather discuss it with people I "know". Ras as a Vikings fan has had good contributions here since way back on JSO. And both our Bears fans showed up today to take their lumps (not that much was given out, the Bears probably did enough themselves. But the non gameday conversation could have easily been held the conversation in the non-pack gameday thread.

Bears & Vikings on PR > pretty much everyone else :wink: :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty, I was in total disagreement with you about the Favre/Min-Pit intrusion into the gameday thread. The first half of our game was great, but damn the second half was boring. MIN-PIT had a good one going so people started watching that. However, your point about picking a "refuge from Favre" is completely valid. I got sooooo sick of hearing about it on ESPN and mass media (exponentially exploded the issue). THat's a big reason I came back here after a few years away: to focus on the Pack. I get now why you were so irritated with it then. There's a lot of non-Packer football that is worth discussing, and I'd rather discuss it with people I "know". Ras as a Vikings fan has had good contributions here since way back on JSO. And both our Bears fans showed up today to take their lumps (not that much was given out, the Bears probably did enough themselves. But the non gameday conversation could have easily been held the conversation in the non-pack gameday thread.

If it is boring, then how about leaving and going to the alternate game day thread and brett vikings thread? I do get that the game was boring.

And, it wasn't just the Vikes, it was SF as well. Ty hates to use the slippery slope, but it was in full effect on sunday. You allow non pack game day talk...and before you know it...it is all talk about other teams.

I'm not trying to be unreasonable. I said updates were ok..even though i hate them...especially Ras posting of Vikes being up and winning. Iron Mike didn't like them either. So, i suggested an alternative.

Favre: Yes. Trying to enjoy a 2 game winning streak...boom...fucking favre intrudes on it. No matter how anyone spins it, favre leaves a sour taste.

Ras/bear fans: I have never called for them to leave. I do think they should be treated as undocumented illegal aliens. We appreciate their work, but keep a low profile or ICE will pick them up and deport their asses.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I miss Harlan.

We always hurt the ones we love.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Ty, I guess I included some in that post that certainly wasn't directed towards you :oops: but rather in response to some other posts (not necessarily yours) about who should be here and who shouldn't. My response for you was that I finally understood what you were saying and that the other conversation should have occurred in the other thread.

[sheepshead]

I used to enjoy coming here and reading every thread and every post. Now I skim so much that it takes just a couple minutes to get through it all. The Packers are 4-2 and this place is a whining bitch fest in every single topic. Yes fine, ironic to be bitching about bitching I get it.

Does everyone just come here with their own specific opinion and agenda to push and throw it out repeatedly instead of having an actual conversation? Do you do this with people in real life of is this some sort of whipping post to vent your daily frustrations?

I'm actually sick of coming here and 2 years ago I NEVER thought that could happen. This place was lively, fun and interesting to read. Now its like I'm sitting in the middle of a fucking sewing circle listening to old bitties argue about which brand of stool softener works best. Stop ruining this site plz thx.

I would like to see more thought put into a post/response. Too many on here just type for the sake of getting their post numbers up or just to say something contrarian to entice a response. If you're guessing , say so. Too many wont do the research to back up their claims. Or generally have no idea what they are talking about, just regurgitating something they read or heard elsewhere.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty, I guess I included some in that post that certainly wasn't directed towards you :oops: but rather in response to some other posts (not necessarily yours) about who should be here and who shouldn't. My response for you was that I finally understood what you were saying and that the other conversation should have occurred in the other thread.

K.

That makes sense. Though, i still feel they should be treated like illegal aliens. Ty will play the role of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. If they act up....TENT CITY FUCKERS!

[HowardRoark]

Ty is an asshole.

Two things would go a long way here: don't take things personal, and don't get personal in responses. Having said that, it probably won't happen. I am mainly a lurker in the Packer room. As someone once said a month or so ago, I can read some pretty good analysis here and repeat it at work or with friends and sound a lot smarter than I am. But, there does seem to be a lot of drama in here. And it's not even good drama, Zool said it well with the bittie (or however the hell it is spelled) thing.

As for Partial's earlier denigration of the FYI thread, I disagree with him. I think we all do a very good job of self-regulation in there. Everyone seems to know where the line is and we don't cross it. And it does NOT spill over to here. Rand and Ty get along nicely here, but go at it like cats and dogs in FYI. That might be a good option in the Packer room too; a little peer pressure could go along way.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Well, if a conservative assbag like Howard is for keeping FYI, then as a liberal douche, i must be against it.

Kill FYI.

[bobblehead]

In the words of Rodney King, "Can't We All Just Get Along?"

you sure it wasn't "Ouch, Ooompff, Owie, Stop, Wait, Ouch, I can explain, STOP, OUCH!!"

[Scott Campbell]

I would like to see more thought put into a post/response.


+1

[bobblehead]

Favre: Yes. Trying to enjoy a 2 game winning streak...boom...fucking favre intrudes on it. No matter how anyone spins it, favre leaves a sour taste.


I am so disturbed that you know the taste of BF

[bobblehead]

I would like to see more thought put into a post/response.


+1

:shock:

[arcilite]

I don't really come here anymore because there really isn't much Packers discussion going on at all.

I just want to talk about the Packers.

[Rastak]

I don't really come here anymore because there really isn't much Packers discussion going on at all.

I just want to talk about the Packers.


In a way you've come to the wrong place, it's more like comedy central.

[ND72]

So I just read through most of this thread.....wowzer.

Besides the fact I only come on here when I get time in my life, which isn't much, I too only skim through now unless something catches my attention...like this.

I do typically only write on threads that are worth it. threads that aren't packer related, or are just dumb, I just check it, and move on. i've gotten good at ignoring the dumb posters....I'm a teacher, I deal with dumb chatter all day. (for this school year I teach only at-risk students).

[HarveyWallbangers]

There are some people I think that are a detriment to the site. I think the Favre situation has made things worse. However, I don't see it all that much different than before. I think it's natural for a forum to grow stale over time--like relationships, jobs, video games, whatever. This site has grown a bit stale. More than anything, we need a good finish to this season. I think that would cure a lot of what ails the site. Then, we'd have less focus on Thompson vs. Favre.

[Deputy Nutz]

There are some people I think that are a detriment to the site. I think the Favre situation has made things worse. However, I don't see it all that much different than before. I think it's natural for a forum to grow stale over time--like relationships, jobs, video games, whatever. This site has grown a bit stale. More than anything, we need a good finish to this season. I think that would cure a lot of what ails the site. Then, we'd have less focus on Thompson vs. Favre.

I love you Harvey, you are just so shy. I need to get you back on the dance floor with 2 dozen sexy asian chicks again.

[Deputy Nutz]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud? I never mentioned anyone in my posts in this thread other to say positive things about them, such as when I called Mad a cocksucker.

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers. I will call it like I see it and I am happy to be in that position. I have a lot less grief in my life.

anyways, some need to relax.

Ignore.

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

Listen...you barely beat me in Fantasy Football this week and I know I intimidated you and you fear me...but why do you want to drag my mother into it? :lol:

Maybe you should have let your mother draft your team.

[Brando19]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud? I never mentioned anyone in my posts in this thread other to say positive things about them, such as when I called Mad a cocksucker.

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers. I will call it like I see it and I am happy to be in that position. I have a lot less grief in my life.

anyways, some need to relax.

Ignore.

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

Listen...you barely beat me in Fantasy Football this week and I know I intimidated you and you fear me...but why do you want to drag my mother into it? :lol:

Maybe you should have let your mother draft your team.

She did...goes to show it doesn't take much to hang with you....ball sniffer.

[SkinBasket]

I don't think I was talking to you in any of those respones yet you had to come in with your "jackass response" because you didnt agree what I was saying about Hawk. Get over yourself, your doing exactly what your bitching about.

You aren't talking to anyone. You're posting on an internet forum. You're going to get responses you don't like. Most people can deal with that without blowing up a federal building or posting a masturbating emoticon.

Maybe part of the problem is there isn't a sticky post explaining the difference between real life and the internet. Between reality and fantasy. Just like McDonald's had to tell people coffee is hot, maybe this forum needs to be just as condescendingly overly obvious.

[Brandon494]

I don't think I was talking to you in any of those respones yet you had to come in with your "jackass response" because you didnt agree what I was saying about Hawk. Get over yourself, your doing exactly what your bitching about.

You aren't talking to anyone. You're posting on an internet forum. You're going to get responses you don't like. Most people can deal with that without blowing up a federal building or posting a masturbating emoticon.

Maybe part of the problem is there isn't a sticky post explaining the difference between real life and the internet. Between reality and fantasy. Just like McDonald's had to tell people coffee is hot, maybe this forum needs to be just as condescendingly overly obvious.

Thanks for explaining that to me and for that I give you...... :bs:

[Packers4Ever]

Great. We know how to bitch about it. So what are we gonna DO about it? (cause if we don't do something, we're gonna completely kill this forum.)


Nahhh. it's all going to take care of itself, MJ, although I absolutely agree with gbgary about it being Brett's fault. But just wait and see. after this weekend, this game will be behind us. We've had 6-7 weeks to see it coming closer and closer, when it's past there'll be other things to be concerned about and other games.

Got a whole lot ahead yet..... :glug:

[retailguy]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud? I never mentioned anyone in my posts in this thread other to say positive things about them, such as when I called Mad a cocksucker.

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers. I will call it like I see it and I am happy to be in that position. I have a lot less grief in my life.

anyways, some need to relax.

Ignore.

Take me for instance, I really want to threaten a certain poster right, now. I dislike him that much. I want to challenge him to a fistacuffs, but I have decided to use some restrain. Also I would like to say nasty things about his mother, but again I will refrain and demonstrate my discipline and control. Being the better person is whats important.

Well done, Nutz.

I don't understand why this thread had to get personal. But from my vantage point, that's really the issue.

So many people want to "tell" others how it is. Not enough want to learn. If I had a dollar for each thing I learned from KYPack, Patler and Harvey, I'd be a very rich man. Are there some folks here who don't know squat, but think they do? Of course. So, what.

In all the bs, sometimes you find a chunk of gold or a diamond. A few folks here make me think. And there are a couple that do free google research for me.... A positive in everything, I think. :P

I don't think the forum is falling apart. Though, I do hope we can get back to football ANALYSIS and opinion talk. Everyone's opinions are soundly criticized right now. On both sides.

[GrnBay007]

www.packerchatters.com
www.p@ckeraddict.com




I just realized paranoid Madtown made it so you couldn't type www.p@ckeraddict.com. :lol:Fuck you. That is because those fucks felt it was their right to tag this place up with that shit. See unlike your bandwagon jumping ass I only gave a fuck and still do in some ways about this forum alone. You on the other hand do nothing that is positive for it any more. You put those shit links up just as easily as you talked shit about this place on the new jso. For that alone you should get whacked.

You are nothing but a fucking bitch IMO. Yes you will come quick with a snappy comeback. So fucking what, the truth is you dont really give a fuck about this place. If you had any loyalty you would take that shit down.



I got a 6 fuck response. Top that Skinbasket!

You comment about the "paranoid" behavior of Mad but maybe you don't know the full story behind all that. That was a long time ago...and you might not think it was so paranoid.

As far as the angry "fuck" response goes, maybe you should remember what your behavior was when you were angry? ....those that live in glass houses.....

[GrnBay007]

Goddamn if people try to go out and prove Partial's point.

Why the hell do names have to be dragged through the mud?

anyways, I like Favre, big deal. I won't sit here and disparage Rodgers, or any other Packer player because of my feelings about Favre and Green Bay Packers.


I don't understand why this thread had to get personal.


:tup:


I have no problem being mentioned with the group JH referred to. Posted with them for many years and as far as I know they are all good people. So if that was an attempt to label certain people or make them look bad, good try.

I think it's funny how some people get so wrapped up in deciding who or who is not a Packer fan based on how they feel about Favre. For the most part we've all been at this or the "other" forum for a long time together. Why not just accept that some people have different views and get along. Joke about it...but don't be mean. It's really not worth it. We wouldn't be here if we weren't Packer fans. Some people just have a different slant on what they believe.

The question was WTF is going on here. IMO personal attacks is one of the main reasons we have lost some people. Really, who wants to post at a site where they state their opinion and they get hammered if they don't believe what the "group" believes.

There are a lot of good, intelligent posters here. Lets go back to having fun (without insult) and not drive anyone else away.

Oh, and Ty....I didn't go to Iowa. I graduated from an IL University. Damn, there is something you were wrong about!!! First time for everything, I guess.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

why? Because there is no way to spin otherwise. You can not claim to be a TEAM fan and then choose to root for a player over the team. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Go ahead and root for Favre, just admit you aren't a packer fan.

Are you rooting for the packers to annihilate the vikings and Favre. Are you hoping that the pack sacks Favre to death, picks him off, and utterly destroy him and the vikes? Cause if you aren't then you aren't a packer fan. Favre isn't favre when he is a viking. He is the oppositions qb. A guy in purple. Favre gets no special allowances for having played here.

If there is part of you that thinks, "it wouldn't be so bad if the packers lost" and bert had a nice game..then you aren't a packer fan.

Their is no way to be fan of Favre/Vikes and GB as each has goals that are mutually exclusive. It really is that simple.

This isn't pee wee soccer in copenhagen where everyone gets apple slices and every kid gets a trophy. When favre succeeds it hurts us.

[GrnBay007]

why? Because there is no way to spin otherwise. You can not claim to be a TEAM fan and then choose to root for a player over the team. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Go ahead and root for Favre, just admit you aren't a packer fan.

Are you rooting for the packers to annihilate the vikings and Favre. Are you hoping that the pack sacks Favre to death, picks him off, and utterly destroy him and the vikes? Cause if you aren't then you aren't a packer fan. Favre isn't favre when he is a viking. He is the oppositions qb. A guy in purple. Favre gets no special allowances for having played here.

If there is part of you that thinks, "it wouldn't be so bad if the packers lost" and bert had a nice game..then you aren't a packer fan.

Their is no way to be fan of Favre/Vikes and GB as each has goals that are mutually exclusive. It really is that simple.

This isn't pee wee soccer in copenhagen where everyone gets apple slices and every kid gets a trophy. When favre succeeds it hurts us.

See how you freak out over the subject? Something wrong with u, IMO

Funny how you mention I CAN'T be a Packer fan even though I don't hate Favre and hope he does well in his final years. I just got an email from my friend in GB and am getting lined up for tickets on the 50 yard line, row 12. Unfortunately it will be for a cold weather game........like I attended last year (Dec VS Houston). ....You know....when I also followed Favre while he played for the Jets.

I guess you never said. Where did you get this degree in Fanology? You are obviously the expert in deciding who can be a fan of what team. Seriously, just grow up and stop slamming people.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

why? Because there is no way to spin otherwise. You can not claim to be a TEAM fan and then choose to root for a player over the team. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Go ahead and root for Favre, just admit you aren't a packer fan.

Are you rooting for the packers to annihilate the vikings and Favre. Are you hoping that the pack sacks Favre to death, picks him off, and utterly destroy him and the vikes? Cause if you aren't then you aren't a packer fan. Favre isn't favre when he is a viking. He is the oppositions qb. A guy in purple. Favre gets no special allowances for having played here.

If there is part of you that thinks, "it wouldn't be so bad if the packers lost" and bert had a nice game..then you aren't a packer fan.

Their is no way to be fan of Favre/Vikes and GB as each has goals that are mutually exclusive. It really is that simple.

This isn't pee wee soccer in copenhagen where everyone gets apple slices and every kid gets a trophy. When favre succeeds it hurts us.

See how you freak out over the subject? Something wrong with u, IMO

Funny how you mention I CAN'T be a Packer fan even though I don't hate Favre and hope he does well in his final years. I just got an email from my friend in GB and am getting lined up for tickets on the 50 yard line, row 12. Unfortunately it will be for a cold weather game........like I attended last year (Dec VS Houston). ....You know....when I also followed Favre while he played for the Jets.

I guess you never said. Where did you get this degree in Fanology? You are obviously the expert in deciding who can be a fan of what team. Seriously, just grow up and stop slamming people.

who is freaking. merely wrote a post. should is say there is something wrong with you to care so much about how others perceive your fan cred? Seems that way. Why aren't you just secure in the knowledge of your cred.

Are you gonna cheer for Brett? Do you root for Brett do well, then you are rooting against the pack. Simple as that.

Fan is for fanatic. You aren't a fan of the packers. You are a fan of Bert. You are an interested observer of the pack.

You need to accept that you aren't a fan.

Iowa. Ok. Even worse. You went to Ill. You are from iowa or root for them against the badgers. niether is good.

[HowardRoark]

why? Because there is no way to spin otherwise. You can not claim to be a TEAM fan and then choose to root for a player over the team. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Go ahead and root for Favre, just admit you aren't a packer fan.

Are you rooting for the packers to annihilate the vikings and Favre. Are you hoping that the pack sacks Favre to death, picks him off, and utterly destroy him and the vikes? Cause if you aren't then you aren't a packer fan. Favre isn't favre when he is a viking. He is the oppositions qb. A guy in purple. Favre gets no special allowances for having played here.

If there is part of you that thinks, "it wouldn't be so bad if the packers lost" and bert had a nice game..then you aren't a packer fan.

Their is no way to be fan of Favre/Vikes and GB as each has goals that are mutually exclusive. It really is that simple.

This isn't pee wee soccer in copenhagen where everyone gets apple slices and every kid gets a trophy. When favre succeeds it hurts us.

See how you freak out over the subject? Something wrong with u, IMO

Funny how you mention I CAN'T be a Packer fan even though I don't hate Favre and hope he does well in his final years. I just got an email from my friend in GB and am getting lined up for tickets on the 50 yard line, row 12. Unfortunately it will be for a cold weather game........like I attended last year (Dec VS Houston). ....You know....when I also followed Favre while he played for the Jets.

I guess you never said. Where did you get this degree in Fanology? You are obviously the expert in deciding who can be a fan of what team. Seriously, just grow up and stop slamming people.

who is freaking. merely wrote a post. should is say there is something wrong with you to care so much about how others perceive your fan cred? Seems that way. Why aren't you just secure in the knowledge of your cred.

Are you gonna cheer for Brett? Do you root for Brett do well, then you are rooting against the pack. Simple as that.

Fan is for fanatic. You aren't a fan of the packers. You are a fan of Bert. You are an interested observer of the pack.

You need to accept that you aren't a fan.

Iowa. Ok. Even worse. You went to Ill. You are from iowa or root for them against the badgers. niether is good.

http://phillipsrelief.com/img/products/stool_softener.jpg

[Brandon494]

I agree, a player is not greater than the team no matter how good that player is. Favre is my favorite football player and is the reason I became a Packers fan but I will be damned if Im going to root for him when he is playing for a rival. I didn't like the split last season but I still wished him well when he was playing for the Jets because they really had nothing to do with the Packers. If you are rooting for Favre this year it doesnt mean you arent a Packers fan, it just means you are more a Brett Favre fan than a Packers fan, which I have come to realize there are quite a few out there like that. Seriously, he might be the main reason we don't make the playoffs this season yet some of you still want to cheer his ass because you think its all TT's fault and golden boy Brett can do no wrong.

[pbmax]

Maybe its just me, but I took something else away from Nutz's point than some others. He wasn't trying to respond to the criticism leveled at certain posters. He wasn't defending a group or decrying being put in a group. He was trying to point out that calling people out over petty things like WHY you are a fan (or WHY you dislike a player) simply causes arguments and hard feelings. Its a child's blame game.

There is no point to it other than to start a fight or make yourself feel more righteous. Being a fan is an irrational act in many ways, and shouldn't need to be explained nor defended. And it should go without saying that blaming problems on certain kinds of fans is equally ludicrous. No one takes a fan test to post here. You're accepted here to talk about Packers football (or at least football in general).

Questioning the validity of certain fans should simply stop, as should pointing out the logical flaws of their belief. Or supposed hatred of your favorite player. Despite what posters think, these posts aren't clever and don't win the argument. None of this makes sense or helps.

To give a concrete example, we have a poster who is still in a certain player's corner. Many disagree with this position. Now he may be right, he may be wrong, or he might be just a fan. But that poster knows more about football than 98% of the rest of us (myself included). He could believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care; I want to read his posts and damn anyone who wants to insult, drown out or condemn his posts.

[MOBB DEEP]

Like I try to do in my daily living, we should all attempt to be like Jesus on this forum; hate the sin NOT the sinner (allows me to be insulted by several posters yet still laugh at their jokes and respect their opinions). In other words, WHO CARES what some gal or guy says on an internet forum, whether their opinions are in line with mine, etc? Personally, i KNOW favre made GB relevant again and sholda been allowed to return. But very few ppl are ever swayed. so live and let live :wink:

This place was designed for ENTERTAINMENT!

Like 007 said, there are some ppl here who are overall decent ppl. We shouldnt allow our disagreements to shape our opinions of other individuals with whom we've never really interacted. Some folk here think they REALLY know other posters! I can get along with nearly anyone (symptom of my people-pleasing narcissicism) so i know the MOBB bashers here would LOVE me in person like all ppl i run into in the "real world". But, b/c I sweat Favre/Vick, etc (and dont break down Packer film and personnel moves like some armchair GMs), folk get mean-spirited. Relax, Packers/Favre/TT are NOT the end all be all in this crazy world!

Everyone have a great day...

[retailguy]

Well said PB. Well said. Kudos.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I had the thought that perhaps we just need to make some of those word substitutions that some forums do to replace swear words. Favre becomes "he who shall not be named" a la Voldemort and all of the iterations of common insults (idiot, moron, asshole, etc.) become silly ultrafeminine words a prepubescent girl might use. Might not solve much, but at least if a flame war starts, the rest of us have something entertaining to read...

Interesting. Add a random word generator to replace certain terms and insults with similar sounding ones as you described would add the groaning entertainment of watching an edited R-rated film on TNT!

[MichiganPackerFan]

In the words of Rodney King, "Can't We All Just Get Along?"

you sure it wasn't "Ouch, Ooompff, Owie, Stop, Wait, Ouch, I can explain, STOP, OUCH!!"

That line is funny every time!

[MichiganPackerFan]

Maybe its just me, but I took something else away from Nutz's point than some others. He wasn't trying to respond to the criticism leveled at certain posters. He wasn't defending a group or decrying being put in a group. He was trying to point out that calling people out over petty things like WHY you are a fan (or WHY you dislike a player) simply causes arguments and hard feelings. Its a child's blame game.

There is no point to it other than to start a fight or make yourself feel more righteous. Being a fan is an irrational act in many ways, and shouldn't need to be explained nor defended. And it should go without saying that blaming problems on certain kinds of fans is equally ludicrous. No one takes a fan test to post here. You're accepted here to talk about Packers football (or at least football in general).

Questioning the validity of certain fans should simply stop, as should pointing out the logical flaws of their belief. Or supposed hatred of your favorite player. Despite what posters think, these posts aren't clever and don't win the argument. None of this makes sense or helps.

To give a concrete example, we have a poster who is still in a certain player's corner. Many disagree with this position. Now he may be right, he may be wrong, or he might be just a fan. But that poster knows more about football than 98% of the rest of us (myself included). He could believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care; I want to read his posts and damn anyone who wants to insult, drown out or condemn his posts.

Dug your post pb - also like the film breakdown on another thread - really helps me to understand and appreciate the game better...

[Deputy Nutz]

Maybe its just me, but I took something else away from Nutz's point than some others. He wasn't trying to respond to the criticism leveled at certain posters. He wasn't defending a group or decrying being put in a group. He was trying to point out that calling people out over petty things like WHY you are a fan (or WHY you dislike a player) simply causes arguments and hard feelings. Its a child's blame game.

There is no point to it other than to start a fight or make yourself feel more righteous. Being a fan is an irrational act in many ways, and shouldn't need to be explained nor defended. And it should go without saying that blaming problems on certain kinds of fans is equally ludicrous. No one takes a fan test to post here. You're accepted here to talk about Packers football (or at least football in general).

Questioning the validity of certain fans should simply stop, as should pointing out the logical flaws of their belief. Or supposed hatred of your favorite player. Despite what posters think, these posts aren't clever and don't win the argument. None of this makes sense or helps.

To give a concrete example, we have a poster who is still in a certain player's corner. Many disagree with this position. Now he may be right, he may be wrong, or he might be just a fan. But that poster knows more about football than 98% of the rest of us (myself included). He could believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care; I want to read his posts and damn anyone who wants to insult, drown out or condemn his posts.

Well said.


Personal attacks happen, but they were usually after dozens of posts, where people just couldn't put up with something. Personal attacks were not the norm, for any poster. For some it has come to being only personal attacks. If some couldn't post personal attacks, I don't know how they could fill in the text box. For some when ever they post submit, they are leveled with personal attacks.

I have always been pretty "creative" in my posting style, but I am not going to call a poster a "butt fucker" just because I don't agree with his opinion on football.

The creativity on this forum has really taken a shit. If we have to resort to personal attacks and one liners just to be funny on a forum, then really what have we become? I guess suppose it is different in the other rooms on this forum, but the Packer forum should be a little better than that.

There are a couple in this thread that just keep proving this over and over. this disagree with someone's view and they blast it with one line and an emoticon. Really? Have you not read what this thread is about?

I hate it when people say, "take it to PM", but have some respect for threads, especially in the football room. Don't wreck a thread because you want to get into an off topic discussion that revolves around personal attacks. Challenge the other poster to take it to the Romper Room.

[Zool]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

[Deputy Nutz]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

Fine, lets talk about your mother instead. She has some cute curls.

[Bossman641]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

[Partial]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think the fundamental problem is burnout of personalities. I know that I can give a pretty accurate guess as to how someone is going to respond to one thing or another, and based on past history I develop an opinion on whether someone is acting like a jerk or not.

Right now I'm personally giddy as the explosive weekend basically proved the point I've been preaching to admin all along. Hopefully he will recognize this and take steps I've suggested.

[sharpe1027]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

[Smidgeon]

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

[Bossman641]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

BINGO

You have packer fans excited about the Vikings start. You have packer fans on the fence about who they want to win this week, or even not minding if they lose. That is what I mean. The Packers losing this week would put them the equivalent of 3 games behind the Vikings. I cannot fathom how anyone could be happy with the Vikings playing well, or winning this weekend, as that directly hurts the Packers. That is just how I feel though.

It's obviously everyone's decision as to how they feel about the situation. But there are a lot of people here who can sniff out BS, and it's not hard to separate those who would be crushed over a Packer loss from those who would be OK with a Viking win.

Like I said earlier, that common ground has been eroded a little bit.

[mraynrand]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think the fundamental problem is burnout of personalities. I know that I can give a pretty accurate guess as to how someone is going to respond to one thing or another, and based on past history I develop an opinion on whether someone is acting like a jerk or not.

Right now I'm personally giddy as the explosive weekend basically proved the point I've been preaching to admin all along. Hopefully he will recognize this and take steps I've suggested.

Ι λικε ψου Σολλψ. Ψου αρε α φυννψ γυψ. Τηατ ισ ωηψ Ι αμ γοινγ το κιλλ ψου λαστ.

[sharpe1027]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

[Chevelle2]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

Serious question - why are you on this board?

[mraynrand]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

BINGO

You have packer fans excited about the Vikings start. You have packer fans on the fence about who they want to win this week, or even not minding if they lose. That is what I mean. The Packers losing this week would put them the equivalent of 3 games behind the Vikings. I cannot fathom how anyone could be happy with the Vikings playing well, or winning this weekend, as that directly hurts the Packers. That is just how I feel though.

It's obviously everyone's decision as to how they feel about the situation. But there are a lot of people here who can sniff out BS, and it's not hard to separate those who would be crushed over a Packer loss from those who would be OK with a Viking win.

Like I said earlier, that common ground has been eroded a little bit.

It's not just Packerrats either. This chick behind me at the Cleveland game was wearing a Favre jersey, sitting there with her dorky brother and some really, really loud bald guy. She kept saying "Next week I'm wearing purple. I'm wearing purple and I hope Favre wins." The loud bald guy gets tired of it and yells at the top of his voice, "Shut the fuck up about Favre willya!"

[sharpe1027]

Take away all the online personalities and start over? No thanks, I could get that by moving on to a new board.

Those that want anonymity are likely hiding from their own mistakes...

[Smidgeon]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

[Deputy Nutz]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

BINGO

You have packer fans excited about the Vikings start. You have packer fans on the fence about who they want to win this week, or even not minding if they lose. That is what I mean. The Packers losing this week would put them the equivalent of 3 games behind the Vikings. I cannot fathom how anyone could be happy with the Vikings playing well, or winning this weekend, as that directly hurts the Packers. That is just how I feel though.

It's obviously everyone's decision as to how they feel about the situation. But there are a lot of people here who can sniff out BS, and it's not hard to separate those who would be crushed over a Packer loss from those who would be OK with a Viking win.

Like I said earlier, that common ground has been eroded a little bit.



Maybe its just me, but I took something else away from Nutz's point than some others. He wasn't trying to respond to the criticism leveled at certain posters. He wasn't defending a group or decrying being put in a group. He was trying to point out that calling people out over petty things like WHY you are a fan (or WHY you dislike a player) simply causes arguments and hard feelings. Its a child's blame game.

There is no point to it other than to start a fight or make yourself feel more righteous. Being a fan is an irrational act in many ways, and shouldn't need to be explained nor defended. And it should go without saying that blaming problems on certain kinds of fans is equally ludicrous. No one takes a fan test to post here. You're accepted here to talk about Packers football (or at least football in general).

Questioning the validity of certain fans should simply stop, as should pointing out the logical flaws of their belief. Or supposed hatred of your favorite player. Despite what posters think, these posts aren't clever and don't win the argument. None of this makes sense or helps.

To give a concrete example, we have a poster who is still in a certain player's corner. Many disagree with this position. Now he may be right, he may be wrong, or he might be just a fan. But that poster knows more about football than 98% of the rest of us (myself included). He could believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care; I want to read his posts and damn anyone who wants to insult, drown out or condemn his posts.

[Bossman641]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

BINGO

You have packer fans excited about the Vikings start. You have packer fans on the fence about who they want to win this week, or even not minding if they lose. That is what I mean. The Packers losing this week would put them the equivalent of 3 games behind the Vikings. I cannot fathom how anyone could be happy with the Vikings playing well, or winning this weekend, as that directly hurts the Packers. That is just how I feel though.

It's obviously everyone's decision as to how they feel about the situation. But there are a lot of people here who can sniff out BS, and it's not hard to separate those who would be crushed over a Packer loss from those who would be OK with a Viking win.

Like I said earlier, that common ground has been eroded a little bit.



Maybe its just me, but I took something else away from Nutz's point than some others. He wasn't trying to respond to the criticism leveled at certain posters. He wasn't defending a group or decrying being put in a group. He was trying to point out that calling people out over petty things like WHY you are a fan (or WHY you dislike a player) simply causes arguments and hard feelings. Its a child's blame game.

There is no point to it other than to start a fight or make yourself feel more righteous. Being a fan is an irrational act in many ways, and shouldn't need to be explained nor defended. And it should go without saying that blaming problems on certain kinds of fans is equally ludicrous. No one takes a fan test to post here. You're accepted here to talk about Packers football (or at least football in general).

Questioning the validity of certain fans should simply stop, as should pointing out the logical flaws of their belief. Or supposed hatred of your favorite player. Despite what posters think, these posts aren't clever and don't win the argument. None of this makes sense or helps.

To give a concrete example, we have a poster who is still in a certain player's corner. Many disagree with this position. Now he may be right, he may be wrong, or he might be just a fan. But that poster knows more about football than 98% of the rest of us (myself included). He could believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care; I want to read his posts and damn anyone who wants to insult, drown out or condemn his posts.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Do you disagree with me that the fans I described exist? It's not just here, it's at JSO or Packersnews when I read the blog comments. That is my belief as to why things are the way they are. Notice I didn't say to run them out of the forum or chase after them with pitchforks. To stick your head in the sand and pretend this isn't the case is unreasonable.

I disagree with your position 100%, but I respect you for coming out explaining how and why you feel the way you do.

[sharpe1027]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

[Deputy Nutz]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

BINGO

You have packer fans excited about the Vikings start. You have packer fans on the fence about who they want to win this week, or even not minding if they lose. That is what I mean. The Packers losing this week would put them the equivalent of 3 games behind the Vikings. I cannot fathom how anyone could be happy with the Vikings playing well, or winning this weekend, as that directly hurts the Packers. That is just how I feel though.

It's obviously everyone's decision as to how they feel about the situation. But there are a lot of people here who can sniff out BS, and it's not hard to separate those who would be crushed over a Packer loss from those who would be OK with a Viking win.

Like I said earlier, that common ground has been eroded a little bit.



Maybe its just me, but I took something else away from Nutz's point than some others. He wasn't trying to respond to the criticism leveled at certain posters. He wasn't defending a group or decrying being put in a group. He was trying to point out that calling people out over petty things like WHY you are a fan (or WHY you dislike a player) simply causes arguments and hard feelings. Its a child's blame game.

There is no point to it other than to start a fight or make yourself feel more righteous. Being a fan is an irrational act in many ways, and shouldn't need to be explained nor defended. And it should go without saying that blaming problems on certain kinds of fans is equally ludicrous. No one takes a fan test to post here. You're accepted here to talk about Packers football (or at least football in general).

Questioning the validity of certain fans should simply stop, as should pointing out the logical flaws of their belief. Or supposed hatred of your favorite player. Despite what posters think, these posts aren't clever and don't win the argument. None of this makes sense or helps.

To give a concrete example, we have a poster who is still in a certain player's corner. Many disagree with this position. Now he may be right, he may be wrong, or he might be just a fan. But that poster knows more about football than 98% of the rest of us (myself included). He could believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care; I want to read his posts and damn anyone who wants to insult, drown out or condemn his posts.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Do you disagree with me that the fans I described exist? It's not just here, it's at JSO or Packersnews when I read the blog comments. That is my belief as to why things are the way they are. Notice I didn't say to run them out of the forum or chase after them with pitchforks. To stick your head in the sand and pretend this isn't the case is unreasonable.

I disagree with your position 100%, but I respect you for coming out explaining how and why you feel the way you do.

I guess my point is simple, who gives a fuck if someone is this kinda of fan or that kind of fan, if they support good discussion it really shouldn't matter. Some want to be the judge and jury about what type of fans should be allowed here.

I have been told at least a half a dozen times to go find a vikings forum even though I have been here longer than 99% of all registered users.

[Smidgeon]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

Zing!

[MichiganPackerFan]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

Sadly, I have this sick feeling that that role will be excitedly and humorously filled by Skin...

[Partial]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

Serious question - why are you on this board?

A wide variety of reasons, why?

[MichiganPackerFan]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

Sadly, I have this sick feeling that that role will be excitedly and humorously filled by Skin...

Another thought, I hope Retail joins up to IF and ONLY IF he looks exactly like his avatar :lol:

[Bossman641]

I don't visit other packer sites, so I have a question for those of you who do.

What do they do about the whole Favre situation? Separate rooms? Heavily moderated?

I have to believe the arguments here go on elsewhere as well.

[Scott Campbell]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

Sadly, I have this sick feeling that that role will be excitedly and humorously filled by Skin...


.......or Brad Childress.

[mraynrand]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

Serious question - why are you on this board?

A wide variety of reasons, why?

Partial, you did see him explicitly write 'our rivals' didn't you? I want our rivals to play poorly. I want the Packers to win the Superbowl, and since they aren't the best team in the NFL, that's going to require other teams playing worse - or the Packers playing better than their talent level - at least head to head with other teams. I want the Packers to beat the Vikings soundly every time they play. I think that requires beating the living crap out of a QB I liked to watch for 17 years. I hope the Packers get that done - and yes, that the Vikings - the Packers' hated rival - plays poorly.

[Brandon494]

There are a couple in this thread that just keep proving this over and over. this disagree with someone's view and they blast it with one line and an emoticon. Really? Have you not read what this thread is about?

I was being sarcastic in my one liner, how is that any differnt from your little mom one liner you make right after you posted this?


Fine, lets talk about your mother instead. She has some cute curls.

[mmmdk]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think the fundamental problem is burnout of personalities. I know that I can give a pretty accurate guess as to how someone is going to respond to one thing or another, and based on past history I develop an opinion on whether someone is acting like a jerk or not.

Right now I'm personally giddy as the explosive weekend basically proved the point I've been preaching to admin all along. Hopefully he will recognize this and take steps I've suggested.

Sorry, Part, what you said makes no sense. Don't let it stop you though :)

[Brandon494]

I guess my point is simple, who gives a fuck if someone is this kinda of fan or that kind of fan, if they support good discussion it really shouldn't matter. Some want to be the judge and jury about what type of fans should be allowed here.

I have been told at least a half a dozen times to go find a vikings forum even though I have been here longer than 99% of all registered users.

Doesn't really matter how long you been here if your rooting for a player who is hurting the Packers chancing of making the playoffs, which is the first step of achieving the ultimate goal of a championship. No one is saying you can't post here, most just don't want to hear crap about a so called "packer fan" cheering for Favre to suceed in purple. Maybe thats the reason you've been told to go to the viking forum.

[Brandon494]

I don't visit other packer sites, so I have a question for those of you who do.

What do they do about the whole Favre situation? Separate rooms? Heavily moderated?

I have to believe the arguments here go on elsewhere as well.

They do and thats the reason I was actually ban from Packer Report because the admin there was so far up Favre's ass and such a TT hater. He ban me for being too "positive" about the Packers after the Viking lost, whatever the fuck that means. I used no foul language or personal attack, just had a different opinion than his and that was reason enough for him.

[sharpe1027]

Ι λικε ψου Σολλψ. Ψου αρε α φυννψ γυψ. Τηατ ισ ωηψ Ι αμ γοινγ το κιλλ ψου λαστ.

Σολλψ
solly??

[mmmdk]

I don't visit other packer sites, so I have a question for those of you who do.

What do they do about the whole Favre situation? Separate rooms? Heavily moderated?

I have to believe the arguments here go on elsewhere as well.

I've said this before; don't blame the BF debacle. This is a possé group that cannot be dealt with. This is a Favre site for years to come.

The trouble is the posters not Favre. A prick is a prick is a prick....

[mmmdk]

I don't visit other packer sites, so I have a question for those of you who do.

What do they do about the whole Favre situation? Separate rooms? Heavily moderated?

I have to believe the arguments here go on elsewhere as well.

They do and thats the reason I was actually ban from Packer Report because the admin there was so far up Favre's ass and such a TT hater. He ban me for being too "positive" about the Packers after the Viking lost, whatever the fuck that means. I used no foul language or personal attack, just had a different opinion than his and that was reason enough for him.

If true; this is seriously f@cked up. :shock:

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Packer Nation should just agree to disagree and move on. We must ban the "F" word, and I mean Favre. Not just for the good of Packer Nation, but for the good of society. It is clear by now that we'll all never see this issue through the same green and gold glasses.

[mraynrand]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Packer Nation should just agree to disagree and move on. We must ban the "F" word, and I mean Favre. Not just for the good of Packer Nation, but for the good of society. It is clear by now that we'll all never see this issue through the same green and gold glasses.

It's not possible to ban/ignore the 'F' word any more than it's possible to ban the 'E' word (Economy). It's in your face every day. What we can decide to do is not personally attack those with different views. I disagree with Nutz and 007 on their positions regarding Favre, but both of them contribute as posters and it seems to me won't be nasty if they aren't provoked. So don't provoke.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Packer Nation should just agree to disagree and move on. We must ban the "F" word, and I mean Favre. Not just for the good of Packer Nation, but for the good of society. It is clear by now that we'll all never see this issue through the same green and gold glasses.

It's not possible to ban/ignore the 'F' word any more than it's possible to ban the 'E' word (Economy). It's in your face every day. What we can decide to do is not personally attack those with different views. I disagree with Nutz and 007 on their positions regarding Favre, but both of them contribute as posters and it seems to me won't be nasty if they aren't provoked. So don't provoke.

But just like a Jehova's Witness at your door when it's 7 in the morning, it can be annoying when something is thrown in your face. Some people don't provoke, they are antagonized first.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It is absolute insanity that every thread on this board turns into a Packers vs Favre debate. I just don't get it. He's gone. Let him go.

It's really not that surprising to me.

The one thing we as Packer fans should have in common is a desire to have the Packers win every week, see our rivals struggle, and go on from there.

I don't think that common ground exists anymore.

Just my opinion

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think the fundamental problem is burnout of personalities. I know that I can give a pretty accurate guess as to how someone is going to respond to one thing or another, and based on past history I develop an opinion on whether someone is acting like a jerk or not.

Right now I'm personally giddy as the explosive weekend basically proved the point I've been preaching to admin all along. Hopefully he will recognize this and take steps I've suggested.

You want everyone to do well? WTF kind of loigc is that. The interests of the packer's are mutually exclusive of the vikings. In order for the pack to do well the vikings have to do worse. It really is that simple.

The interest of the packers is to win the division, get in the playoffs, secure home field advantage, advance to the NFC championship, get to to the SB, win the SB. Every game the vikings win puts that goal at risk.

Is it harder to win on the road? Yes. Is it harder to win as a wildcard? yes. If for that reason alone you shouldn't be rooting for the vikings or bears.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Packer Nation should just agree to disagree and move on. We must ban the "F" word, and I mean Favre. Not just for the good of Packer Nation, but for the good of society. It is clear by now that we'll all never see this issue through the same green and gold glasses.

It's not possible to ban/ignore the 'F' word any more than it's possible to ban the 'E' word (Economy). It's in your face every day. What we can decide to do is not personally attack those with different views. I disagree with Nutz and 007 on their positions regarding Favre, but both of them contribute as posters and it seems to me won't be nasty if they aren't provoked. So don't provoke.

unfortunately that isn't true. If we celebrate or advocate beating the vikes and their qb...pummeling him in a fashion that i wish our defense did to EVERY QB (tho, honestly, i take a a bit more personal satisfaction if it is bert..but, the same way i would feel about certain other playes), they will take it as a provocation.

That is essentially the problem. One cannot be a fan as previously understood of the pack. One cannot advocate pummeling Favre. One cannot take delight in his miscues. One cannot root for him to fail...because all is seen as provocation.

The hypocrisy of the situation is mind blowing. Nobody hear is upset or speaks up for poor jay cutler when his name and reputation is besmirched.

[mraynrand]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Packer Nation should just agree to disagree and move on. We must ban the "F" word, and I mean Favre. Not just for the good of Packer Nation, but for the good of society. It is clear by now that we'll all never see this issue through the same green and gold glasses.

It's not possible to ban/ignore the 'F' word any more than it's possible to ban the 'E' word (Economy). It's in your face every day. What we can decide to do is not personally attack those with different views. I disagree with Nutz and 007 on their positions regarding Favre, but both of them contribute as posters and it seems to me won't be nasty if they aren't provoked. So don't provoke.

unfortunately that isn't true. If we celebrate or advocate beating the vikes and their qb...pummeling him in a fashion that i wish our defense did to EVERY QB (tho, honestly, i take a a bit more personal satisfaction if it is bert..but, the same way i would feel about certain other playes), they will take it as a provocation.

That is essentially the problem. One cannot be a fan as previously understood of the pack. One cannot advocate pummeling Favre. One cannot take delight in his miscues. One cannot root for him to fail...because all is seen as provocation.

The hypocrisy of the situation is mind blowing. Nobody hear is upset or speaks up for poor jay cutler when his name and reputation is besmirched.

Then I say if they are provoked and attack personally, the best thing is 1) don't respond and 2) if you respond, simply address what you care about, as you did above and move on. The endless downward spiral of back and forth personal attacks is what kills threads. Someone has to turn their back and walk away from the fray on the high road.

[mraynrand]

Dude, that's just not true. Why does being a Packer fan mean you want other teams to do poorly? Me, I want everyone to do well. I don't understand your logic.

I think he means that the Packers doing well usually starts with the making the playoffs, then to winning the division, then to the NFC championship and finally with the Superbowl. Thus, the Packer's success is inversely proportional to how well other teams in the NFC do as well as how well other teams in the North do.

IMO, there is no need to continue the discussion on who is or is not a fan. Let's move on together. We can all hold hands and skip down the yellow-brick road together.

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Packer Nation should just agree to disagree and move on. We must ban the "F" word, and I mean Favre. Not just for the good of Packer Nation, but for the good of society. It is clear by now that we'll all never see this issue through the same green and gold glasses.

It's not possible to ban/ignore the 'F' word any more than it's possible to ban the 'E' word (Economy). It's in your face every day. What we can decide to do is not personally attack those with different views. I disagree with Nutz and 007 on their positions regarding Favre, but both of them contribute as posters and it seems to me won't be nasty if they aren't provoked. So don't provoke.

But just like a Jehova's Witness at your door when it's 7 in the morning, it can be annoying when something is thrown in your face. Some people don't provoke, they are antagonized first.

Don't answer the door. If you answer the door and don't like what you hear, you say 'Excuse me, but I have to go now. Sorry but I'm closing the door now."

OK. I am done with this thread. I'm starting to sound like Miss Manners...er....Ms. Manners. "Gentle Reader,...."

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Everything you say is true, to a point. And, no one should attack them personally.

But, as noted, they will feel provoked and start shit because Bert is attacked.

As a packer fan, on a packer board, it is my FUCKING right to attack all players on the enemies team.

Your house analogy is a bit off. THis is forum is more like a church for packers. You wouldn't accept at your church if a member started saying that he really was fan of Muhammed and a fan of Jesus. And, that as competing religions, he was rooting for Islam, but he still was a fan of Christianity. Now, as a good Xian, i would expect/hope that you could contain yourself and politely ask the person to refrain from this type of behavior in YOUR CHURCH.

I doubt you and your fellow parishioners would be so lukewarm and turn your cheeks on this issue.

At best the Islam fans should be quiet and lay low.

As a MINORITY, they should learn a lesson that all minorities have learned...keep your mouth shut...cause things can get bad in a hurry.

[Deputy Nutz]

There are a couple in this thread that just keep proving this over and over. this disagree with someone's view and they blast it with one line and an emoticon. Really? Have you not read what this thread is about?

I was being sarcastic in my one liner, how is that any differnt from your little mom one liner you make right after you posted this?


Fine, lets talk about your mother instead. She has some cute curls.

See why open your trap about something that you have very little knowledge about? You spout off about a lot of things, but please don't assume you know what my above statement means, or it's intended meaning. I don't know you from a piece of ape shit laying on the ground at the zoo, so I wouldn't say such harsh things about your family members. Since I have been here long enough and have conversed with others on here I know my boundries when dealing with some of them.

P.S My Fantasy football team's name is "Zool's Mom is a Ho". He is the commish of our league.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Is Zool's mom single? Where she be at?

[Deputy Nutz]

I guess my point is simple, who gives a fuck if someone is this kinda of fan or that kind of fan, if they support good discussion it really shouldn't matter. Some want to be the judge and jury about what type of fans should be allowed here.

I have been told at least a half a dozen times to go find a vikings forum even though I have been here longer than 99% of all registered users.

Doesn't really matter how long you been here if your rooting for a player who is hurting the Packers chancing of making the playoffs, which is the first step of achieving the ultimate goal of a championship. No one is saying you can't post here, most just don't want to hear crap about a so called "packer fan" cheering for Favre to suceed in purple. Maybe thats the reason you've been told to go to the viking forum.

This is pretty funny. For the past couple of hears I haven't claimed to be a Packer fan. I think most that regularly post here and have any memory what so ever can attest to that. I am here for the bountiful relationships new and old. I like to talk football, especially with a few on here that actually know what the hell they are talking about.

The bottom, is that nobody here pulls any shit about how many posts they have, how long they have been here, we are pretty welcoming to new posters and want them to post, and not ridicule them for being |"noobs".

When new and old posters tell me where to go, considering the amount of time and energy I used to and currently spend here, can go piss up a rope.

I love having Restak here, especially now, the two Bear trolls are interesting, but this is an open forum and I certainly haven't been rubbing anyone's noses in Favre's success this season. One I know it is a long season, and two, I am not 12 years old and I don't need to boast and boost my own ego because of a professional football player.

So read on me and others before you state your opinion on what I am or who I root for.

[Brandon494]

There are a couple in this thread that just keep proving this over and over. this disagree with someone's view and they blast it with one line and an emoticon. Really? Have you not read what this thread is about?

I was being sarcastic in my one liner, how is that any differnt from your little mom one liner you make right after you posted this?


Fine, lets talk about your mother instead. She has some cute curls.

See why open your trap about something that you have very little knowledge about? You spout off about a lot of things, but please don't assume you know what my above statement means, or it's intended meaning. I don't know you from a piece of ape shit laying on the ground at the zoo, so I wouldn't say such harsh things about your family members. Since I have been here long enough and have conversed with others on here I know my boundries when dealing with some of them.

P.S My Fantasy football team's name is "Zool's Mom is a Ho". He is the commish of our league.

How did I assume that I knew what you were talking about? I asked you how was that any different than my one liner and you explained it. THANKS BUDDY! :tup:

[Smidgeon]

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Not me--at least not every game. I want them--and the Bears and Lions--to finish around 6-10 or 7-9 every year. That way they're both out of the playoffs (unless the conference is really bad) and out of the quality draft pick (i.e. Top 10) range. Getting those top picks is one of the things that can drastically alter a franchise's direction, unless you're the Lions. They seem to have the ability to pick in the Top 10 perennially and still find busts.

Of course I root against them for the most part and especially when they're playing GB, but I'll allow a victory or two over other horrible teams just so they get worse draft position and poorer consequential players in the crapshoot that is the NFL draft...

EDIT: I want to confer the "Houston Texans" status upon the division rivals if I can...

[MJZiggy]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

You knuckleheads do realize that we have people around here qualified to pull off the dress and heels, right? Then again, it would be rather funny to watch you try and wobble down the street in heels with 40 degree winds blowing up your skirt... :lol: :lol:

[Partial]

Well, this thread went down hill fast.

[MJZiggy]

Let it flow, P. People need to get their ideas out there before they can figure out what to do with them, I think.

[sheepshead]

Well, this thread went down hill fast.

Not that you would know anything about that.

[Fritz]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

You knuckleheads do realize that we have people around here qualified to pull off the dress and heels, right? Then again, it would be rather funny to watch you try and wobble down the street in heels with 40 degree winds blowing up your skirt... :lol: :lol:

Some of us would prefer to see you doing this...

[MJZiggy]

Okay, but I'm not going to be the one in the dress.

I'll take your request into consideration; there are no guarantees though. How are you at skipping in heels?

I've never tried, so I'm going to assume that I'd fall down a lot.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, I expected more heel-wearing experience from someone in San Fran. :P We'll just have to get you a nice pair of flats.

You knuckleheads do realize that we have people around here qualified to pull off the dress and heels, right? Then again, it would be rather funny to watch you try and wobble down the street in heels with 40 degree winds blowing up your skirt... :lol: :lol:

Some of us would prefer to see you doing this... :oops: Your job to keep me warm...

[SkinBasket]

There are a couple in this thread that just keep proving this over and over. this disagree with someone's view and they blast it with one line and an emoticon. Really? Have you not read what this thread is about?

I was being sarcastic in my one liner, how is that any differnt from your little mom one liner you make right after you posted this?


Fine, lets talk about your mother instead. She has some cute curls.

I think the difference lies in the fact that he's funny and you're just kind of an asshole. I could be wrong though. A lot of people here hate me and think I'm wrong. But I don't go all bat shit crazy about it. Mainly because I realize my posts are just my opinions and that all you ignorant asshats have the right to be wrong. God bless your retarded little souls. If you have any.

[Brandon494]

There are a couple in this thread that just keep proving this over and over. this disagree with someone's view and they blast it with one line and an emoticon. Really? Have you not read what this thread is about?

I was being sarcastic in my one liner, how is that any differnt from your little mom one liner you make right after you posted this?


Fine, lets talk about your mother instead. She has some cute curls.

I think the difference lies in the fact that he's funny and you're just kind of an asshole. I could be wrong though. A lot of people here hate me and think I'm wrong. But I don't go all bat shit crazy about it. Mainly because I realize my posts are just my opinions and that all you ignorant asshats have the right to be wrong. God bless your retarded little souls. If you have any.

Umm thats exactly what you do, I think its hilarious how riled up you get over a damn emoticon. :lol: Also before you come back claiming how you don't its obvious it does get to you with all the unnecessary name calling in your posts.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Wow, I had to explain this to another Packer fan last week. No "fan" and we'll use that loosely, of any team, should have a tough time when deciding whether to cheer for their team or the hated division rival they are playing that week, or any week! It's like logic and reasoning don't apply to some people.

Not me--at least not every game. I want them--and the Bears and Lions--to finish around 6-10 or 7-9 every year. That way they're both out of the playoffs (unless the conference is really bad) and out of the quality draft pick (i.e. Top 10) range. Getting those top picks is one of the things that can drastically alter a franchise's direction, unless you're the Lions. They seem to have the ability to pick in the Top 10 perennially and still find busts.

Of course I root against them for the most part and especially when they're playing GB, but I'll allow a victory or two over other horrible teams just so they get worse draft position and poorer consequential players in the crapshoot that is the NFL draft...

EDIT: I want to confer the "Houston Texans" status upon the division rivals if I can...

Way to go and use logic against my logical argument. There are exceptions to every rule.

Welcome to the forum as well, always great to have another quality poster. I would say hope all the craziness over Favre doesn't bother, but I'm pretty much sure this is the way it is across every forum and bar(remember those before the internet?) in the country.

[esoxx]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

[SkinBasket]

There are a couple in this thread that just keep proving this over and over. this disagree with someone's view and they blast it with one line and an emoticon. Really? Have you not read what this thread is about?

I was being sarcastic in my one liner, how is that any differnt from your little mom one liner you make right after you posted this?


Fine, lets talk about your mother instead. She has some cute curls.

I think the difference lies in the fact that he's funny and you're just kind of an asshole. I could be wrong though. A lot of people here hate me and think I'm wrong. But I don't go all bat shit crazy about it. Mainly because I realize my posts are just my opinions and that all you ignorant asshats have the right to be wrong. God bless your retarded little souls. If you have any.

Umm thats exactly what you do, I think its hilarious how riled up you get over a damn emoticon. :lol: Also before you come back claiming how you don't its obvious it does get to you with all the unnecessary name calling in your posts.

To borrow a line from Ochocinco: Child, please. You should read some of my older posts if you think that I'm somehow riled up or angry about your attempts at cleverness.

You simply provided a nice example of why threads get derailed (see this thread as another example) by posts which don't advance any kind of argument but instead are meant solely to insult another poster or their opinion (which I don't have a problem with as long as it's done with some kind of intelligence and also carries a point). I stated in the beginning that it's just my solicited opinion. Instead of providing a counterpoint that would advance the discussion, you proved my point by responding with "sarcasm" and your really witty use of emoticons. You've played your part pretty much exactly how one would have guessed. Why would I be upset about that?

Opinion... over, and out.

[MichiganPackerFan]

To borrow a line from Ochocinco: Child, please. You should read some of my older posts if you think that I'm somehow riled up or angry about your attempts at cleverness.

You simply provided a nice example of why threads get derailed (see this thread as another example) by posts which don't advance any kind of argument but instead are meant solely to insult another poster or their opinion (which I don't have a problem with as long as it's done with some kind of intelligence and also carries a point). I stated in the beginning that it's just my solicited opinion. Instead of providing a counterpoint that would advance the discussion, you proved my point by responding with "sarcasm" and your really witty use of emoticons. You've played your part pretty much exactly how one would have guessed. Why would I be upset about that?

Opinion... over, and out.

:bs:

[MichiganPackerFan]

:D

[SkinBasket]

You're on the list buddy. And one day that list is going to be a resolution. And that resolution will be used to plan a course of action. And that course of action will directly involve kicking you in the nards.

I'M SO INFURIATED!!!!!!

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Cheesehead Craig]

You're on the list buddy. And one day that list is going to be a resolution. And that resolution will be used to plan a course of action. And that course of action will directly involve kicking you in the nards.

I'M SO INFURIATED!!!!!!

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Why am I picturing a game of Ro Sham Bo at the next PackerRats posters game?

[HarveyWallbangers]

This thread is kind of cathartic.

[mraynrand]

This thread is kind of cathartic.

It's sort of McCathartic.

[Zool]

This thread is kind of cathartic.

It's sort of McCathartic.

Is that like therapy at McDonalds?

[mraynrand]

Getting those top picks is one of the things that can drastically alter a franchise's direction, unless you're the Lions. They seem to have the ability to pick in the Top 10 perennially and still find busts.

Did someone mention my name?
http://thegregger63.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/matt-millen.jpg

[mraynrand]

This thread is kind of cathartic.

It's sort of McCathartic.

Is that like therapy at McDonalds?

I was thinking more of the 'Run on every first down' sort of therapy of Mike "Stubby" McCarthy.

[Zool]

This thread is kind of cathartic.

It's sort of McCathartic.

Is that like therapy at McDonalds?

I was thinking more of the 'Run on every first down' sort of therapy of Mike "Stubby" McCarthy.

Damn i was hoping to get a Shamrock Shake

[mraynrand]

This thread is kind of cathartic.

It's sort of McCathartic.

Is that like therapy at McDonalds?

I was thinking more of the 'Run on every first down' sort of therapy of Mike "Stubby" McCarthy.

Damn i was hoping to get a Shamrock Shake

dammit that is funny :D :D :D :D

But I think you meant a Sharper Shake!

[esoxx]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

Fuck you.

[Freak Out]

...t-minus 10...9...8...7...

[Deputy Nutz]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

Fuck you.

Clearly stated.

[sheepshead]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

Fuck you.

Clearly stated.

Second.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

Fuck you.

I don't think you got the joke...or maybe you did, if so..well played.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

Fuck you.

Clearly stated.

Second.

Move along, this is a grown up discussion.

[MJZiggy]

This thread is kind of cathartic.

Kind of like Festivus and the airing of grievances. What's next? Wrestling?

[esoxx]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

Fuck you.

I don't think you got the joke...or maybe you did, if so..well played.

Exactly.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

Fuck you.

I don't think you got the joke...or maybe you did, if so..well played.

Exactly.

Another worthless post by esoxx.

[esoxx]

Fuck you.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Fuck you.

:lol:

[Deputy Nutz]

Fuck you.

straight shooter.

[Bretsky]

First off, and I've noted this many times. Admin is doing as good of a job as he can.

Any negative vibes one might feel........time for us all to look in the mirror because it's the posters and poster styles that have developed.

Some simple, good common sense thoughts and/or suggestions that each of us could do better

1. Be courteous and respectful of others; simple, yet hard to follow conept

2. Don't be the guy that feels like he/she always needs to get the last word in; if you are irked about something it says more about you if you have the ability to take a step back instead of leading a flame war due to ones views about a game.

3. Leave the sarcastic, one liners at the door that might offend others. I've been guilty of this in the past as well.

I too have come to hate that dam smily icon as many think it's alright to throw insulting, meaningful sarcasm out as long as you end it with a smily...I've been guilty of this one a lot on the past two

4. Be a step above calling out other posters in anything but a positive manner ; take that to PM if you feel that need to stir a pot or just refrain

5. Leave the self righeous bullshit to your own personal life. On a forum where few people know each other, nobody is a better person or worse person based on what he/she believes about something regarding a game

6. If you are unable to embrace number five, then just don't respond to posters you don't respect as much and the flame wars will go away

7. Re Embrace the mojo that everybody is welcome here regardless of his/her views about football unless they are blatantly harmful.

[SkinBasket]

First off, and I've noted this many times. Admin is doing as good of a job as he can.

Any negative vibes one might feel........time for us all to look in the mirror because it's the posters and poster styles that have developed.

Some simple, good common sense thoughts and/or suggestions that each of us could do better

1. Be courteous and respectful of others; simple, yet hard to follow conept

2. Don't be the guy that feels like he/she always needs to get the last word in; if you are irked about something it says more about you if you have the ability to take a step back instead of leading a flame war due to ones views about a game.

3. Leave the sarcastic, one liners at the door that might offend others. I've been guilty of this in the past as well.

I too have come to hate that dam smily icon as many think it's alright to throw insulting, meaningful sarcasm out as long as you end it with a smily...I've been guilty of this one a lot on the past two

4. Be a step above calling out other posters in anything but a positive manner ; take that to PM if you feel that need to stir a pot or just refrain

5. Leave the self righeous bullshit to your own personal life. On a forum where few people know each other, nobody is a better person or worse person based on what he/she believes about something regarding a game

6. If you are unable to embrace number five, then just don't respond to posters you don't respect as much and the flame wars will go away

7. Re Embrace the mojo that everybody is welcome here regardless of his/her views about football unless they are blatantly harmful.

Really most of that makes sense, even if it may be a little heavy on the idealism. You have to admit, number 4 is a little silly. This is a football forum, not a preteen discussion of rainbows and hugs. If we feel the need to start every post where we don't agree with someone with "Well, poster, you are a wonderful person with lots of interesting and valid opinions, but I think your argument would be stronger and even more wonderful if you believed..." then this place isn't long for the world.

I still think if you act like you would at the bar, you'll be fine. Joke and poke fun at people you know, and treat those you don't know with common bar courtesy - which, granted, is a step or two below grocery store common courtesy, but still keeps you out of a fistfight most of the time.

This was my initial reaction to your post though:

You are an idiot. Game set match. What a grrrrreeeeaaaat post. :lol: What I really mean is that this post is stupid and Jesus loves me more than you, so I must be right. This place would be better without all you enumerating number dorks. :roll: