Farve: 12 TDs / 3 INTs - How to beat him on Sunday?

[Kiwon]

Well, before Farve's fumble and INT (not his fault) in the 4th Quarter last Sunday, he was almost downright efficient.

In fact, he's been relatively efficient all year. I guess there are benefits to turning 40. Where is the wild gunslinger throwing into triple coverage?

When's the last time Farve had only thrown 3 INTs after 7 games? Is that a personal record?

So how do the Packers harrass one of the greatest QBs and coolest customers ever to play the game?

[ThunderDan]

Well, before Favre's fumble and INT (not his fault) in the 4th Quarter last Sunday, he was almost downright efficient.

In fact, he's been relatively efficient all year. I guess there are benefits to turning 40. Where is the wild gunslinger throwing into triple coverage?

When's the last time Favre had only thrown 3 INTs after 7 games? Is that a personal record?

So how do the Packers harrass one of the greatest QBs and coolest customers ever to play the game?

I think it is simple. Make the Vikings play from behind and I know it's hard to do. Pittsburg had the lead most of the game and Minnesota threw 51 passes. I think when MN goes away from AD it hurts their chances.

[sharpe1027]

Well, before Favre's fumble and INT (not his fault) in the 4th Quarter last Sunday, he was almost downright efficient.

In fact, he's been relatively efficient all year. I guess there are benefits to turning 40. Where is the wild gunslinger throwing into triple coverage?

When's the last time Favre had only thrown 3 INTs after 7 games? Is that a personal record?

So how do the Packers harrass one of the greatest QBs and coolest customers ever to play the game?

1.) Stop AD, both in the pass and the run.
2.) Get pressure up the middle (easier said than done).
3.) Get ahead early - this will result in throws into triple coverage.
4.) Order in a cold front.
5.) Keep him off the field with a good run game.

[3irty1]

Getting a lead I think is the most important thing. Childress seems to shit down his leg when he's down. Unfortunately the acquisition of a real NFL qb means that they don't automatically lose when in pass happy mode.

The Vikings have some good young receivers on their team. I don't think its Favre making them look good as much as it was Jackson making them look bad. Sid Rice might be becoming a real number one receiver. Both him and Harvin are probably scarier than Berrian who I thought might be their only productive receiver this season.

The Packers secondary is still second to none and as long as Favre doesn't have ten seconds to throw every third down, stopping their running game has to be McCarthy's focus.

[sharpe1027]

As much as he get's ripped on, I think that the return of Bigby really opens up Caper's options. If we can get them in a position that they can't hand the ball off to AD 75% of the plays, look for some unusual blitz packages. Otherwise, they'll probably focus on contain first, pass-rush second.

[PackerTimer]

They have to get pressure on him. We can say all we want about blitzes but the fact is the Packers just did not win any individual battles in Minnesota. They got whipped on the offensive and defensive lines. So, we need Kampman, Jenkins, Jolly, Barnett and everybody else to not get stood up at the line of scrimmage. Minnesota's offensive line isn't all that good (except for when they played us) Favre has been hit an awful lot this year. We need to take better advantage of it this weekend.

[Fritz]

Packertimer has a good point. It's not about blitzing; it's about the three or four rushers beating the guy or guys in front of them.

[Deputy Nutz]

you have to be able to get presure with the front 4. I know some experts like Leroy Butler :roll: believe that you have to blitz Favre into mistakes, but if you bring blitzes he knows where the single coverage is going to be.

Make Favre hold onto the football, he makes some of his best plays when he free lances, but he also makes his worst plays as well. Keep him in the pocket with his eyes down the middle of the field. Coverage in the secondary has to be really good, good coverage will beat Favre.

If the Packers can stop the run with their front seven, no more then they can keep enough guys in coverage to play zone.

Safeties and middle linebackers brutalize Favre when it comes to interceptions. Safety play is crucial. The Packers need to fool Favre into throwing late over the middle.

Again I hope Favre shreds the Packers, but I want to add to constructive conversation.

[sharpe1027]

I think part of it was the Packers were focused first on run. They were maintaining their responsibilities rather than shooting up the field looking to get big plays. Get the Vikings behind and they can start attacking more.

[MichiganPackerFan]

you have to be able to get presure with the front 4. I know some experts like Leroy Butler :roll: believe that you have to blitz Favre into mistakes, but if you bring blitzes he knows where the single coverage is going to be.

Does converting to a completely new defensive scheme limit this? He may have the savy vet and know certain players tendencies, but he doesn't know this scheme any more than film study.

[Zool]

I've only watched a couple Viking games so far this year but it seems like this week they were specifically trying to go downfield more than usual. The first few week were way more screens and shallow crossing routes than deep outs and go routes.

If you can slow up AP, take away the screens you can beat them with solid safety play. Can we get that this week?

[Deputy Nutz]

you have to be able to get presure with the front 4. I know some experts like Leroy Butler :roll: believe that you have to blitz Favre into mistakes, but if you bring blitzes he knows where the single coverage is going to be.

Does converting to a completely new defensive scheme limit this? He may have the savy vet and know certain players tendencies, but he doesn't know this scheme any more than film study.

It is not like this defense was created yesterday. It has been around for 35 years. Sure Favre hasn't had the years of practice against it, but he has been around the block a few times with the 3-4.

Also I don't care what defense you play. If you can't get pressure on the quarterback, and you can't cover receivers then it doesn't matter. The Packers did neither 3 games ago.

[denverYooper]

I've only watched a couple Viking games so far this year but it seems like this week they were specifically trying to go downfield more than usual. The first few week were way more screens and shallow crossing routes than deep outs and go routes.

If you can slow up AP, take away the screens you can beat them with solid safety play. Can we get that this week?

Good question. IIRC, Collins was dropped inside quite a bit last game basically playing SS because of Bigby's injury and Martin was up top getting scorched. Hopefully, it's a different game with Bigby back and Collins in his usual position.

[MichiganPackerFan]

you have to be able to get presure with the front 4. I know some experts like Leroy Butler :roll: believe that you have to blitz Favre into mistakes, but if you bring blitzes he knows where the single coverage is going to be.

Does converting to a completely new defensive scheme limit this? He may have the savy vet and know certain players tendencies, but he doesn't know this scheme any more than film study.

It is not like this defense was created yesterday. It has been around for 35 years. Sure Favre hasn't had the years of practice against it, but he has been around the block a few times with the 3-4.

Also I don't care what defense you play. If you can't get pressure on the quarterback, and you can't cover receivers then it doesn't matter. The Packers did neither 3 games ago.

Totally agree with you on the pressure. And I think #4 is savy and knows the game. I just don't think he has the familiarity with the Packers Defense that a lot of the talking heads have claimed (not yourself btw!)

[mngolf19]

I've only watched a couple Viking games so far this year but it seems like this week they were specifically trying to go downfield more than usual. The first few week were way more screens and shallow crossing routes than deep outs and go routes.

If you can slow up AP, take away the screens you can beat them with solid safety play. Can we get that this week?

I think the change in passes is due to chemistry and comfort of Favre and his receivers. So far I think the Browns are the only team to play the Vikes straight up. Everyone else has gone "stop the run and make Favre beat us". I don't know that scheme on D is going to make a difference. It really will come down to scoring early and often (tds not fgs) so your D can play more aggressive. Vikes are more talented(in my opinion) so you have to try and force it issue in your favor instead of playing straight.

[Scott Campbell]

In the spirit of Halloween, Al Harris could come dressed as Corey Webster.

[mngolf19]

you have to be able to get presure with the front 4. I know some experts like Leroy Butler :roll: believe that you have to blitz Favre into mistakes, but if you bring blitzes he knows where the single coverage is going to be.

Does converting to a completely new defensive scheme limit this? He may have the savy vet and know certain players tendencies, but he doesn't know this scheme any more than film study.

It is not like this defense was created yesterday. It has been around for 35 years. Sure Favre hasn't had the years of practice against it, but he has been around the block a few times with the 3-4.

Also I don't care what defense you play. If you can't get pressure on the quarterback, and you can't cover receivers then it doesn't matter. The Packers did neither 3 games ago.

Totally agree with you on the pressure. And I think #4 is savy and knows the game. I just don't think he has the familiarity with the Packers Defense that a lot of the talking heads have claimed (not yourself btw!)

MPF, I think half the teams in the league use 3-4 now. At least 3 of the Vikes opponents have. I would think Favre is not only experienced with it but with most of the Pack players as well. The importance of Pack O scoring first and fast is going to drive the outcome, short of turnovers. Again my opinion.

[MichiganPackerFan]

MPF, I think half the teams in the league use 3-4 now. At least 3 of the Vikes opponents have. I would think Favre is not only experienced with it but with most of the Pack players as well. The importance of Pack O scoring first and fast is going to drive the outcome, short of turnovers. Again my opinion.

Fair enough. My sole position is that i've been listening to a lot of commentators say that because he played for GB for 16 years, he knows their defense inside and out and should be able to shred it.

My thoughts are, he knows little about this GB defense because he was on the team. What he does know is sourced from two decades of experience in the league, playing against all different types of defenses. He's also faced GB once this year already. Any advantage he has against GB AND due to his time there is limited to his knowledge of specific players' tendencies.

[Brandon494]

Run the ball and limit turnovers. Our O-line was crap that game but we pretty much gave them that game with turnovers. On what looked to be scoring drivers we turned the ball over with a fumble and INT by AR which they turned into 14 points.

[Freak Out]

The OFFENSE is going to win the game this time around. AP is going to get yards and the Vikes will score....but not more than the Packers are going to. :)
Winfield's out and that is going to help a bunch.

Limited offensive mistakes and keeping Allen in check are the most important factors in this game.

[rbaloha1]

1. Disguise blitzes better.

2. Rush Kampman 90 per cent of the time.

3. Roll coverage toward Harris and Williams since BF picked on both of them during the last encounter.

[Zool]

I've only watched a couple Viking games so far this year but it seems like this week they were specifically trying to go downfield more than usual. The first few week were way more screens and shallow crossing routes than deep outs and go routes.

If you can slow up AP, take away the screens you can beat them with solid safety play. Can we get that this week?

I think the change in passes is due to chemistry and comfort of Favre and his receivers. So far I think the Browns are the only team to play the Vikes straight up. Everyone else has gone "stop the run and make Favre beat us". I don't know that scheme on D is going to make a difference. It really will come down to scoring early and often (tds not fgs) so your D can play more aggressive. Vikes are more talented(in my opinion) so you have to try and force it issue in your favor instead of playing straight.

It comes down to LB and S play. If the LB's can keep the short stuff in check and not let the 3 yard passes become 15 yard gains, keep AP in check like last game, I like the Packer DB's against the Vikings WR's assuming the safeties bother to show up.

[Maxie the Taxi]

1. Hit him hard. Knock him down.

2. Play some nickle. Blitz DB's

3. Force him into 3rd and long.

[The Shadow]

The time-tested way savvy coordinators have beaten him for years : show him pressure coming from unexpected angles occasionally, but mostly drop back & wait for the brainfreeze throws/poor decisions.

[Kiwon]

Well, I wonder about what role the crowd can play....some major psychological warfare, you know. 8-)

Farve is always his own worst enemy. He is as emotional as all get out and that could be used against him in what REALLY might be his last game at Lambeau.

How about the Packers start the game with a highlight video tribute? Hall of Fame stuff, testimonies from other Packer greats.

Then put in a special introduction of him as a Packer legend, introduce his wife, introduce his mother, let the crowd give him a standing ovation and cheer and shout "We love you, Brett!"

Encourage folks to come in their Packer #4 jerseys. Make it an unofficial "Brett Farve" day.

I could almost guarantee that his first several passes would be off the mark...

[Maxie the Taxi]

How about a film tribute of all his completions to Dallas Cowboys DB's.

That might cause his first few throws to be off the mark too.

[MJZiggy]

How about a film tribute of all his completions to Dallas Cowboys DB's.

That might cause his first few throws to be off the mark too.

And the crowd may enjoy it more...

[Kiwon]

How about a film tribute of all his completions to Dallas Cowboys DB's.

That might cause his first few throws to be off the mark too.

And the crowd may enjoy it more...

You guys need to think more outside the box...

Some emotional jujitsu would do the trick...

[Rastak]

The time-tested way savvy coordinators have beaten him for years : show him pressure coming from unexpected angles occasionally, but mostly drop back & wait for the brainfreeze throws/poor decisions.


What went wrong in game 1 of the series in your opinion Lamont?

[Guiness]

The time-tested way savvy coordinators have beaten him for years : show him pressure coming from unexpected angles occasionally, but mostly drop back & wait for the brainfreeze throws/poor decisions.


What went wrong in game 1 of the series in your opinion Lamont?

Well, I'm not Lamont but...

I think most would agree that our very basic strategy in the first game was off-base. We didn't expect Favre to be terribly effective, and concentrated on stopping AP, daring the team to ride Favre to the win.

The result - Peterson gets 50ish yards and just over 2ypc. Favre carves us up like a christmas turkey. I don't think we ever had much of a plan for neutralizing Favre.

[Deputy Nutz]

The time-tested way savvy coordinators have beaten him for years : show him pressure coming from unexpected angles occasionally, but mostly drop back & wait for the brainfreeze throws/poor decisions.


What went wrong in game 1 of the series in your opinion Lamont?

Well, I'm not Lamont but...

I think most would agree that our very basic strategy in the first game was off-base. We didn't expect Favre to be terribly effective, and concentrated on stopping AP, daring the team to ride Favre to the win.

The result - Peterson gets 50ish yards and just over 2ypc. Favre carves us up like a christmas turkey. I don't think we ever had much of a plan for neutralizing Favre.

If this was truly the game plan then McCarthy should be fired, Capers should be fired, and his whole staff on defense should be fired. Hell even the whole offensive staff should be fired for letting them go through that game plan.

Planning to stop AP is one thing, because he is still the most dangerous weapon on the field. What I think happened was that the Packers didn't count on the Vikings opening up their down field passing game quite as much. Favre has a very good play fake and when the team is already over commiting to the run the middle of the field is wide open, especially when you can't get pressure on the QB, regardless if it Favre or any other QB, hell it could be Chad Pennington.


The Packers have to stop the run with 7 guys in the box. They bring a safety down I think Favre carves them up again. Blitz all you want but as soon as the Packer over commit one way or another the Vikings have the talent to move the football down the field.

The Packers defense is going to have to play balanced, that is one of the reasons the Vikings brought Favre in.

Interesting thought I just had. Would the Packers coaching staff have enough balls to commit everything they have to stopping Favre? who cares if AP runs all day long, refuse to let Favre come back and shine at Lambeau. Could it be that personal?

[pbmax]

The time-tested way savvy coordinators have beaten him for years : show him pressure coming from unexpected angles occasionally, but mostly drop back & wait for the brainfreeze throws/poor decisions.


What went wrong in game 1 of the series in your opinion Lamont?

Well, I'm not Lamont but...

I think most would agree that our very basic strategy in the first game was off-base. We didn't expect Favre to be terribly effective, and concentrated on stopping AP, daring the team to ride Favre to the win.

The result - Peterson gets 50ish yards and just over 2ypc. Favre carves us up like a christmas turkey. I don't think we ever had much of a plan for neutralizing Favre.

If this was truly the game plan then McCarthy should be fired, Capers should be fired, and his whole staff on defense should be fired. Hell even the whole offensive staff should be fired for letting them go through that game plan.

Planning to stop AP is one thing, because he is still the most dangerous weapon on the field. What I think happened was that the Packers didn't count on the Vikings opening up their down field passing game quite as much. Favre has a very good play fake and when the team is already over commiting to the run the middle of the field is wide open, especially when you can't get pressure on the QB, regardless if it Favre or any other QB, hell it could be Chad Pennington.


The Packers have to stop the run with 7 guys in the box. They bring a safety down I think Favre carves them up again. Blitz all you want but as soon as the Packer over commit one way or another the Vikings have the talent to move the football down the field.

The Packers defense is going to have to play balanced, that is one of the reasons the Vikings brought Favre in.

Interesting thought I just had. Would the Packers coaching staff have enough balls to commit everything they have to stopping Favre? who cares if AP runs all day long, refuse to let Favre come back and shine at Lambeau. Could it be that personal?
I don't know. How many blown coverages led directly to scores? Weren't there two blown plays that led immediately to TDs? One by Smith and one by a LB? That might have been the plan, without blown coverage you hold them to 17 if neither drive scores? Or 23 if they settle for Figgies.

But Capers also said they were concerned that several pressure packages gave Stephen Jackson his biggest gainers. Now that we have home field and the Vike offense will be slower off the ball, I think the pressure will increase slightly.

[The Shadow]

The time-tested way savvy coordinators have beaten him for years : show him pressure coming from unexpected angles occasionally, but mostly drop back & wait for the brainfreeze throws/poor decisions.


What went wrong in game 1 of the series in your opinion Lamont?

1. Capers concentrated almost exclusively on stopping Peterson.
2. The absence of Bigby hurt tremendously - remember that play to Berrian over Al? Capers was hamstrung with Martin back there.

This time out Capers has to have more balance between stopping Peterson while also containing Fave (and that will be a challenge!).
However : having Bigby at SS will be huge + starting Mathews over Poppinga will pay dividends.
If I were scripting the D. gameplan for this rematch I'd return Kampman to his DE role, with a rotation of Aaron, Jenkins, & Jolly. I'd have Chillar at strongside LB - and sometimes rotate Hawk outside there with Chillar sliding back into the Big Oakie. Barnett in the middle should have Peterson as his primary mission.

[Kiwon]

Well, I wonder about what role the crowd can play....some major psychological warfare, you know. 8-)

Favre is always his own worst enemy. He is as emotional as all get out and that could be used against him in what REALLY might be his last game at Lambeau.

How about the Packers start the game with a highlight video tribute? Hall of Fame stuff, testimonies from other Packer greats.

Then put in a special introduction of him as a Packer legend, introduce his wife, introduce his mother, let the crowd give him a standing ovation and cheer and shout "We love you, Brett!"

Encourage folks to come in their Packer #4 jerseys. Make it an unofficial "Brett Favre" day.

I could almost guarantee that his first several passes would be off the mark...

See....Antonio Freeman agrees with me...(maybe)

Ex-Packer Freeman: Lambeau's boos won't shake Brett Favre

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/vikings/2009-10-28-brett-favre-antonio-freeman_N.htm

[Rastak]

The time-tested way savvy coordinators have beaten him for years : show him pressure coming from unexpected angles occasionally, but mostly drop back & wait for the brainfreeze throws/poor decisions.


What went wrong in game 1 of the series in your opinion Lamont?

1. Capers concentrated almost exclusively on stopping Peterson.
2. The absence of Bigby hurt tremendously - remember that play to Berrian over Al? Capers was hamstrung with Martin back there.

This time out Capers has to have more balance between stopping Peterson while also containing Fave (and that will be a challenge!).
However : having Bigby at SS will be huge + starting Mathews over Poppinga will pay dividends.
If I were scripting the D. gameplan for this rematch I'd return Kampman to his DE role, with a rotation of Aaron, Jenkins, & Jolly. I'd have Chillar at strongside LB - and sometimes rotate Hawk outside there with Chillar sliding back into the Big Oakie. Barnett in the middle should have Peterson as his primary mission.

1. Yes, and he pulled it off. They did a good job of keeping him bottled up most of the game.V

2. Bigby should help and the fact Berrian is likely out also helps a little. Vikings offense looked pretty sharp against Pitt. This is going to be a challenge for GB.

[Fritz]

It's easy to be unhappy with Capers' apparent plan since Favre did slice and dice the Pack like a Ronco, but people seem to be pooh-poohing Peterson. The sentiment seems to be "got to stop Favre" or "let's put seven in the box."

You've got to slow Peterson down. You can't not game plan for that guy. You have to account for him, big time.

I agree that it was the two blown coverages that cost the Packers more than any game plan. I would say, though, too, that it appears Capers is starting to use Kampman more effectively, so this might help as well. And if Mathews is out there more, that's a good thing.

Favre will be Favre. He tends to excel earlier in the season and wear down. It's still early - not half way - but this game is later in the day now and it'll be a little cooler. I'll still take my chances with Favre if the Pack can slow Peterson down.

[The Shadow]

Chillar, as a nickel 'roamer', could be used to spy Peterson and would also serve to clog up passing lanes if Favre chooses to pass..

[The Shadow]

No Winfield could be very big.

[RashanGary]

Interesting thought I just had. Would the Packers coaching staff have enough balls to commit everything they have to stopping Favre? who cares if AP runs all day long, refuse to let Favre come back and shine at Lambeau. Could it be that personal?

Horrible idea. Stop AP first. He's twice the threat that Favre is at this point in Favre's career.


I'd run a very similar plan, but on 3rd down, I'd be more aggressive going at Favre. The Vikings do have a dynamic offense with the best RB in football, good weapons at WR and a very good pass catchign TE. They can beat you in all areas of the field. They will score some points. This isn't going to be about shutting the Vikings offense down, it's going to be about getting them in 3rd down, and then getting off the field some of the time. Getting them in 3rd down is about stopping AP and not getting beat with a big play. Getting off on 3rd down will be about getting to Favre. Bottom line, AP is 2/3rds of the equation, Favre is 1/3. Oh yeah a turn over or two is the wild card. If we can get a couple turn overs, I think that is one of our best chances on defense and something we're pretty good at.

[RashanGary]

One thing we may or may not have going for us is the Vikings getting shut out in the run game last time. They may feel some foolish pride to try to run it. If we sell out on the run again and the Vikings keep trying to run, it could get us up early and then we can unload on Favre when they're down a couple scores.

There are a few things I could see happening where the Packers run away with this. My step dad has Sunday ticket. I've seen a lot of Vikings football as well as a lot of Packer football. I might be a homer here, but I think we have the better team. I look forward to beating these guys down. I even think a double digit win is possible.

[bobblehead]

Our overall team may be comparable, even better than theirs, but SO FAR our OL has been so bad it swings the pendulum in their favor. If our OL "cleans it up" then I could drink the kool aid and say we are better, but thats a big if.

[Bossman641]

It all comes down to 3rd down. The defense actually played fairly well on 1st and 2nd down stopping AP, however at one point of the game the Vikings were something ridiculous like 8/10 on 3rd down conversions. Hopefully Matthews + Collins will rectify that situation.

[MichiganPackerFan]

It all comes down to 3rd down. The defense actually played fairly well on 1st and 2nd down stopping AP, however at one point of the game the Vikings were something ridiculous like 8/10 on 3rd down conversions. Hopefully Matthews + Collins will rectify that situation.

How many first downs came on penalties? Some balanced officiating will be helpful too. Remember, MIN was called for NOTHING until the end of the game.

[Deputy Nutz]

Interesting thought I just had. Would the Packers coaching staff have enough balls to commit everything they have to stopping Favre? who cares if AP runs all day long, refuse to let Favre come back and shine at Lambeau. Could it be that personal?

Horrible idea. Stop AP first. He's twice the threat that Favre is at this point in Favre's career.


I'd run a very similar plan, but on 3rd down, I'd be more aggressive going at Favre. The Vikings do have a dynamic offense with the best RB in football, good weapons at WR and a very good pass catchign TE. They can beat you in all areas of the field. They will score some points. This isn't going to be about shutting the Vikings offense down, it's going to be about getting them in 3rd down, and then getting off the field some of the time. Getting them in 3rd down is about stopping AP and not getting beat with a big play. Getting off on 3rd down will be about getting to Favre. Bottom line, AP is 2/3rds of the equation, Favre is 1/3. Oh yeah a turn over or two is the wild card. If we can get a couple turn overs, I think that is one of our best chances on defense and something we're pretty good at.

It really all comes down to Favre, I mean unless AP goes for 300 yards or something, because if you force the Vikes to put the ball in Favre's hand on 3rd it all comes down to if Favre is "on". If he ain't missing and is picking up blitzes on the pre snap and finding his hot reads then the Packers are finished on defense.

If Favre is just mediocre or bad, Packers have an unbelievable shot at winning this game, even if Peterson runs for 125 yards and a score or two. See the Steelers game, Favre had a pick that went for six, and a fumble that went for 6. Game over. Both of those weren't entirely his fault, but they wouldn't have happened if Peterson had the ball in his hands. Favre was having a decent game, not great couldn't score touchdowns in the redzone and commited TOs in the red zone.

Favre has been around the block way too many times for some one to fool him into an int. He throws it, it is on him. Woodson is about the only one that I could see fooling Favre.

[Tony Oday]

1. Man coverage on the WR that locks them down all game to free up the SS to hit AP

2. D line...their O line is brutal, not as bad as ours, but we should be shredding Favre with Kamp, Pickett, Raji and Jolly.

3. left side of our O line. We HAVE to stop Allen and the Williams boys...

4. GJ and DD need to go OFF! What I mean by that is take those 5 yard slants to the house.

5. Crosby cannot miss a kick

[Waldo]

If you force the Vikes to put the ball in Favre's hand on 3rd it all comes down to if Favre is "on".

This.

If I was McCarthy, I would play them using the Vikes old game, pound the rock, be conservative with the pass, try to control the clock. Play to Aaron's strengths. Aaron can generate A LOT of offense in a very short time. He hasn't really been good at sustaining long bursts of "hot" QB play where he hits lots of quick stuff.

That is Brett's game. Brett gets hot and that is how he plays. Brett is at his worst when the pressure to play like Aaron ratchets up, when he has to produce really, really fast. He isn't' patient enough in high pressure. But Brett heats up, and he can sustain very long stretches of nearly undefendable play.

The absolutely worst thing that could happen IMO is for us to score quick and take a 10 point lead, only for Brett to get hot and sustain it for nearly the whole game. Make it a Grant vs. AD game with some shots here and there, then later, in the 2nd half, switch tactics and try to catch a few big plays. Try to get Brett to go toe to toe with Aaron in "big plays". He can't.

[SkinBasket]

Chillar, as a nickel 'roamer', could be used to spy Peterson and would also serve to clog up passing lanes if Favre chooses to pass..

Why, so Peterson can run him over like a 12 year old girl? I don't mind the concept, but Chillar isn't strong enough physically or technique wise to handle that assignment.

[mraynrand]

If you force the Vikes to put the ball in Favre's hand on 3rd it all comes down to if Favre is "on".

This.

If I was McCarthy, I would play them using the Vikes old game, pound the rock, be conservative with the pass, try to control the clock. Play to Aaron's strengths. Aaron can generate A LOT of offense in a very short time. He hasn't really been good at sustaining long bursts of "hot" QB play where he hits lots of quick stuff.

That is Brett's game. Brett gets hot and that is how he plays. Brett is at his worst when the pressure to play like Aaron ratchets up, when he has to produce really, really fast. He isn't' patient enough in high pressure. But Brett heats up, and he can sustain very long stretches of nearly undefendable play.

The absolutely worst thing that could happen IMO is for us to score quick and take a 10 point lead, only for Brett to get hot and sustain it for nearly the whole game. Make it a Grant vs. AD game with some shots here and there, then later, in the 2nd half, switch tactics and try to catch a few big plays. Try to get Brett to go toe to toe with Aaron in "big plays". He can't.

These ideas seem to be contradictory. If Rodgers is better than Favre in big plays and Favre would struggle to match Rodgers in big plays it seems like the Packers want to get up by 10 quickly with big plays to force Favre to keep up. And, it seems like pounding the rock would play right into the Vikings' hands.

Look at the Cleveland game - McCarthy pounded the rock on the first drive, with only one pass and a failed fourth down sneak. The Browns then almost drove the distance for a leading TD - only the horrific play of Anderson bailed them out. Once they started letting Rodgers pass, make reads and create did they blow Cleveland out of the water.

Pound the rock against the Vikings? Against the Williams duo? Water the field heavily, Pass to run, use your check down against pressures, force Favre to play keep up and get some pressure and some really hard hits on the old fossil. That's how they'll win.

[mraynrand]

Also, don't try 'Big Oakie' on Favre - even Derek Anderson recognized it and immediately threw over Chillar for what should have been a TD. Favre will pick that shit apart.

[mngolf19]

1. Man coverage on the WR that locks them down all game to free up the SS to hit AP

2. D line...their O line is brutal, not as bad as ours, but we should be shredding Favre with Kamp, Pickett, Raji and Jolly.

3. left side of our O line. We HAVE to stop Allen and the Williams boys...

4. GJ and DD need to go OFF! What I mean by that is take those 5 yard slants to the house.

5. Crosby cannot miss a kick

Vikes OL is brutal???

[Waldo]

If you force the Vikes to put the ball in Favre's hand on 3rd it all comes down to if Favre is "on".

This.

If I was McCarthy, I would play them using the Vikes old game, pound the rock, be conservative with the pass, try to control the clock. Play to Aaron's strengths. Aaron can generate A LOT of offense in a very short time. He hasn't really been good at sustaining long bursts of "hot" QB play where he hits lots of quick stuff.

That is Brett's game. Brett gets hot and that is how he plays. Brett is at his worst when the pressure to play like Aaron ratchets up, when he has to produce really, really fast. He isn't' patient enough in high pressure. But Brett heats up, and he can sustain very long stretches of nearly undefendable play.

The absolutely worst thing that could happen IMO is for us to score quick and take a 10 point lead, only for Brett to get hot and sustain it for nearly the whole game. Make it a Grant vs. AD game with some shots here and there, then later, in the 2nd half, switch tactics and try to catch a few big plays. Try to get Brett to go toe to toe with Aaron in "big plays". He can't.

These ideas seem to be contradictory. If Rodgers is better than Favre in big plays and Favre would struggle to match Rodgers in big plays it seems like the Packers want to get up by 10 quickly with big plays to force Favre to keep up. And, it seems like pounding the rock would play right into the Vikings' hands.

Look at the Cleveland game - McCarthy pounded the rock on the first drive, with only one pass and a failed fourth down sneak. The Browns then almost drove the distance for a leading TD - only the horrific play of Anderson bailed them out. Once they started letting Rodgers pass, make reads and create did they blow Cleveland out of the water.

Pound the rock against the Vikings? Against the Williams duo? Water the field heavily, Pass to run, use your check down against pressures, force Favre to play keep up and get some pressure and some really hard hits on the old fossil. That's how they'll win.

No, no, no.

Brett is a rhythm passer. Get up too much too early, and the plan would be to shift the placalling balance toward Favre, without pressing, and let his get his groove on. With some sprinkled in AD. If Brett is in a rhythm, AD will be tough to stop.

If the game stays close, within a score or so, ridden out into the mid 3rd, that is the time to strike fast. Rhythm passing works really well if it has a long time to work. In a short span it isn't nearly as effective (unless the D is in prevent), the QB has to press it, and push the ball deeper, which can break the rhythm or prevent it from forming. Rhythm passing takes what the D gives it, it is not that good at stealing what isn't there.

Favre gets into rhythm in the late first, he can get hot and ride it into the 4th. Aaron is not nearly as good of a rhythm passer, he has not done well in pure shootouts. He does take what the defense gives him, but that tends to be when the defense gives him big things. He isn't nearly as content to ignore even looking for the big things in favor of just getting into a smooth short rhythm. And he will steal what isn't really there for most QB's.

If Aaron gets up early with some big plays, and Brett rides his way back in it on a rhythm, then Aaron would have to match Brett's rhythm with big plays. Probably not going to happen.

The Williams wall isn't what it once was. Mn's run D is decent, but not stellar. Grant has always done well against them. A sloppy field favors a back like Grant against the defense. GB's run D is a good bit better than Mn's right now. Call me crazy, but AD vs. our run D and Grant vs. theirs I darn near see as a push. Given the gains that running will have in protection and play action passing (play action helping the big strike offense Aaron excels at), and that pounding AD will keep Brett out of rhythm, I would definitely go that way if I was McCarthy.

[Smidgeon]

Aaron is not nearly as good of a rhythm passer, he has not done well in pure shootouts. He does take what the defense gives him, but that tends to be when the defense gives him big things. He isn't nearly as content to ignore even looking for the big things in favor of just getting into a smooth short rhythm. And he will steal what isn't really there for most QB's.

Seems like you have a good handle on AR. Personally, I like his big strike capabilities. It's explosive. How much of that is Aaron, how much is McCarthy's scheme and playcalling, how can you tell the difference between the two, and how good is Aaron? (I know it's a lot of questions, but I'm curious.)

[MadtownPacker]

Whats up Smidgeon? You really in SF? There right now at some Windows 7 event. You a "expert" like these other guys think they are? :lol:

[Smidgeon]

Whats up Smidgeon? You really in SF? There right now at some Windows 7 event. You a "expert" like these other guys think they are? :lol:

I'm actually in the East Bay north of San Jose. But people across the country recognize "San Francisco" sooner than they would "Fremont". So I elected that.

As for expert, nah. I have opinions and like certain players better than others like the next guy, but I don't profess to know a lot about the intricacies of the game having never played myself at any level. I've only missed two games on TV since Barnett's rookie season, the year that I really started following fervently (starting with watching both days of the draft on ESPN). I was a fan before that, but too passively to really be able to talk about anything. I've seen one game which was the 2003 season finale against Denver when Ahman Green busted his 98 or 99 yard rushing touchdown. Now, I'm trying to expand my awareness and knowledge, and believe it or not, California isn't exactly a hotbed for Packer fans, especially considering the damage the 90s GB team did to the 90s 49ers teams. So I headed online looking for good discussion and similar spirit.

[Waldo]

Aaron is not nearly as good of a rhythm passer, he has not done well in pure shootouts. He does take what the defense gives him, but that tends to be when the defense gives him big things. He isn't nearly as content to ignore even looking for the big things in favor of just getting into a smooth short rhythm. And he will steal what isn't really there for most QB's.

Seems like you have a good handle on AR. Personally, I like his big strike capabilities. It's explosive. How much of that is Aaron, how much is McCarthy's scheme and playcalling, how can you tell the difference between the two, and how good is Aaron? (I know it's a lot of questions, but I'm curious.)

There are few, if any, QB's in the game today (Rivers maybe?) with a long sideline accuracy as good as Aaron's. He can fit it into very small windows from shockingly far away.

Plays like those 1 handed grabs by DD. Great plays by Don, but they can't happen if Aaron's accuracy isn't darn near perfect.

There is also the nicety, if Aaron is going to miss his guy on a long ball, he almost always will overthrow him. Good receivers can make that extra effort to get those, but they are safe and clear from DB's hands.

That is one thing I always disliked about Brett. His sidline accuracy was spotty at best. Sometimes it would be perfect, others it would be HS QB caliber. And Brett missed short, rarely did he overthrow guys deep on the sidelines. Which led to A LOT of interceptions.

[Smidgeon]

Aaron is not nearly as good of a rhythm passer, he has not done well in pure shootouts. He does take what the defense gives him, but that tends to be when the defense gives him big things. He isn't nearly as content to ignore even looking for the big things in favor of just getting into a smooth short rhythm. And he will steal what isn't really there for most QB's.

Seems like you have a good handle on AR. Personally, I like his big strike capabilities. It's explosive. How much of that is Aaron, how much is McCarthy's scheme and playcalling, how can you tell the difference between the two, and how good is Aaron? (I know it's a lot of questions, but I'm curious.)

There are few, if any, QB's in the game today (Rivers maybe?) with a long sideline accuracy as good as Aaron's. He can fit it into very small windows from shockingly far away.

Plays like those 1 handed grabs by DD. Great plays by Don, but they can't happen if Aaron's accuracy isn't darn near perfect.

There is also the nicety, if Aaron is going to miss his guy on a long ball, he almost always will overthrow him. Good receivers can make that extra effort to get those, but they are safe and clear from DB's hands.

That is one thing I always disliked about Brett. His sidline accuracy was spotty at best. Sometimes it would be perfect, others it would be HS QB caliber. And Brett missed short, rarely did he overthrow guys deep on the sidelines. Which led to A LOT of interceptions.

Compared to historical "vertical assassins" where would he rank in terms of skill set?

[Tony Oday]

1. Man coverage on the WR that locks them down all game to free up the SS to hit AP

2. D line...their O line is brutal, not as bad as ours, but we should be shredding Favre with Kamp, Pickett, Raji and Jolly.

3. left side of our O line. We HAVE to stop Allen and the Williams boys...

4. GJ and DD need to go OFF! What I mean by that is take those 5 yard slants to the house.

5. Crosby cannot miss a kick

Vikes OL is brutal???

Oh hell yes they are. McKinnie can only run block...he looks like he moves with cement shoes in pass blocking. Hutch is good both as a drive blocker and pass pro, Sullivan, Herrera and Loadholdt are terrible.

[Waldo]

1. Man coverage on the WR that locks them down all game to free up the SS to hit AP

2. D line...their O line is brutal, not as bad as ours, but we should be shredding Favre with Kamp, Pickett, Raji and Jolly.

3. left side of our O line. We HAVE to stop Allen and the Williams boys...

4. GJ and DD need to go OFF! What I mean by that is take those 5 yard slants to the house.

5. Crosby cannot miss a kick

Vikes OL is brutal???

Oh hell yes they are. McKinnie can only run block...he looks like he moves with cement shoes in pass blocking. Hutch is good both as a drive blocker and pass pro, Sullivan, Herrera and Loadholdt are terrible.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/10/29/vikings-hutchinson-not-playing-up-to-reputation

[mraynrand]

There is also the nicety, if Aaron is going to miss his guy on a long ball, he almost always will overthrow him. Good receivers can make that extra effort to get those, but they are safe and clear from DB's hands.

I agree. There was a drive against Cleveland where Rodgers 'missed' Driver (high) and ?another receiver (low) on deep sideline passes. I was explaining to my daughter that they were still very good throws because there was tight coverage and they were only thrown to the receivers' hand. Either they catch them or they are out of bounds or in the dirt. They were pretty accurate given the circumstances (tight coverage and the distance downfield). Allowing careless INTs is pure poison. Rodgers so far is really avoiding those.

[Tony Oday]

1. Man coverage on the WR that locks them down all game to free up the SS to hit AP

2. D line...their O line is brutal, not as bad as ours, but we should be shredding Favre with Kamp, Pickett, Raji and Jolly.

3. left side of our O line. We HAVE to stop Allen and the Williams boys...

4. GJ and DD need to go OFF! What I mean by that is take those 5 yard slants to the house.

5. Crosby cannot miss a kick

Vikes OL is brutal???

Oh hell yes they are. McKinnie can only run block...he looks like he moves with cement shoes in pass blocking. Hutch is good both as a drive blocker and pass pro, Sullivan, Herrera and Loadholdt are terrible.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/10/29/vikings-hutchinson-not-playing-up-to-reputation

I did not see the steeler play and special teams well honestly had no idea he was the one responsible. I still think he plays a good game if you watch him.

[RashanGary]

I agree that Brett is more of a rhythm, safe passer. For as much as he gets the "gun slinger" label as a guy who's out there making huge plays, Favres one or two highlight big plays on the whole season are made by Rodgers in every game. Literally, Rodgers throws one or two crazy bombs in just about every game and they're completed!!

I'm realizing this more and more, teh beauty of Favre as a QB is his ability to do the little things well over and over and over. He was never called a "game manager" because he' did make the occasional blunder, but he is a great game manager, the type of guy that leads long, mistake free drives taht really wear you out.

I don't know if I'm so worried about him being in a rythm that I don't want to get up. I'm with ayn rand here, it's probably best to get up, not give away any big plays, stop AP on 1st and 2nd down and then be very deceptive and disaplined on 3rd down (don't show what you are doing until after the snap no matter how hard he makes the count).

The Vikings WILL run the ball with AP. Let's play to stop the run and not give up the big play. Eventually they're run twice in a row, get a holding, whatever. We'll get them in 3rd and long. Then make sure you get off the field some of the time on 3rd down.

Big plays for us on offense and turn overs are going to be the real game breakers. Just not letting them score every time on offense is important too. 3rd down was what killled us last time and I see reason to believe we could be better on 3rd down this time around.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Only one way to beat Favre and Petersen: keep their offense off the field with time consuming drives. There are too many gamebreakers on the Vikings offense to beat them otherwise.

Or, you can foolishly hope your defense can convert 2 4th quarter turnovers into 14 points like the Steelers did.

[Smidgeon]

Only one way to beat Favre and Petersen: keep their offense off the field with time consuming drives. There are too many gamebreakers on the Vikings offense to beat them otherwise.

Or, you can foolishly hope your defense can convert 2 4th quarter turnovers into 14 points like the Steelers did.

Good thing Favre isn't Peyton and GB isn't Miami. If they were, then that time of possession thing still wouldn't work...

[ThunderDan]

Only one way to beat Favre and Petersen: keep their offense off the field with time consuming drives. There are too many gamebreakers on the Vikings offense to beat them otherwise.

Or, you can foolishly hope your defense can convert 2 4th quarter turnovers into 14 points like the Steelers did.

Considering that the PITT D outscored the MINN O, I'm not sure about this. MINN put up 10 points. They did move the ball well with 386 yards.

[Smidgeon]

By the way, what's the over/under for the number of safeties Jared Allen gets against Aaron Rodgers?

[woodbuck27]

Re: Favre's performance Vs the Pittsburg Steelers last Sunday.

It sure looked like his 3rd... 4th Quarter comeback in this still young season was in the bag. His go ahead TD pass late in the game washed out by a lousy officiating call that subsequently set up the ensueing turnover that killed the Vikings.

Favre looked nearly unstoppable in that game and with any luck the Vikings would have owned the Steelers. Time after time his pass's dropped or closely defended, were right on the money and I mean the deep pass's as well as the 20-25 yarder's. Favre's arm looks awesome right now.

A big part of the Packers game plan to stop the Vikings will be to cover Sidney Rice like a blanket. Favre and this young WR have really developed a fine chemistry after such a short time as teammates. Favre has plenty of Vikings to go to. I believe he completed pass's to ten players in the Steeler game.

The plan should be to contain AP and keep him from getting outside. After that it's going to come down to whichever QB ( Rodgers or Favre ) can outshoot the other.

GO PACKERS!

[woodbuck27]

Only one way to beat Favre and Petersen: keep their offense off the field with time consuming drives. There are too many gamebreakers on the Vikings offense to beat them otherwise.

Or, you can foolishly hope your defense can convert 2 4th quarter turnovers into 14 points like the Steelers did.

Yup. That too is very important for MM to fully implement and stay with. MM has to call for more running plays. Grind it out the best he can and keep Favre and AP off the field.

The secret to winning this game will come down to whichever team wins the battle of the clock.

[ThunderDan]

Re: Favre's performance Vs the Pittsburg Steelers last Sunday.

It sure looked like his 3rd... 4th Quarter comeback in this still young season was in the bag. His go ahead TD pass late in the game washed out by a lousy officiating call that subsequently set up the ensueing turnover that killed the Vikings.

Favre looked nearly unstoppable in that game and with any luck the Vikings would have owned the Steelers. Time after time his pass's dropped or closely defended, were right on the money and I mean the deep pass's as well as the 20-25 yarder's. Favre's arm looks awesome right now.

A big part of the Packers game plan to stop the Vikings will be to cover Sidney Rice like a blanket. Favre and this young WR have really developed a fine chemistry after such a short time as teammates. Favre has plenty of Vikings to go to. I believe he completed pass's to ten players in the Steeler game.

The plan should be to contain AP and keep him from getting outside. After that it's going to come down to whichever QB ( Rodgers or Favre ) can outshoot the other.

GO PACKERS!

From listening to NFL radio they said the NFL upheld the play call on the tripping and that a flag should have been thrown.

As easy as Brett's 3rd 4th Q comeback disappeared, his 2nd 4th Q comeback shouldn't have happened either.

If MINN had lost to BAL would you have blamed BF for not being able to respond? How about for not scoring a TD on the possesion before? Do you blame Flacco who gave BAL the lead with 3:37 left but the BAL D couldn't hold?

[mngolf19]

1. Man coverage on the WR that locks them down all game to free up the SS to hit AP

2. D line...their O line is brutal, not as bad as ours, but we should be shredding Favre with Kamp, Pickett, Raji and Jolly.

3. left side of our O line. We HAVE to stop Allen and the Williams boys...

4. GJ and DD need to go OFF! What I mean by that is take those 5 yard slants to the house.

5. Crosby cannot miss a kick

Vikes OL is brutal???

Oh hell yes they are. McKinnie can only run block...he looks like he moves with cement shoes in pass blocking. Hutch is good both as a drive blocker and pass pro, Sullivan, Herrera and Loadholdt are terrible.

They are one of the highest scoring teams, not near the top in sacks given up, and if I remember correctly gave Favre an hour and a half to stand back there and wait for the WRs to get in the right spot last Packer game. They have a great running game as well, and it's takes blocking even for AD. Saying those guys are terrible is just ridiculous. And if you want to further prove that, how would you rate them vs Pack's OL?

[Tony Oday]

1. Man coverage on the WR that locks them down all game to free up the SS to hit AP

2. D line...their O line is brutal, not as bad as ours, but we should be shredding Favre with Kamp, Pickett, Raji and Jolly.

3. left side of our O line. We HAVE to stop Allen and the Williams boys...

4. GJ and DD need to go OFF! What I mean by that is take those 5 yard slants to the house.

5. Crosby cannot miss a kick

Vikes OL is brutal???

Oh hell yes they are. McKinnie can only run block...he looks like he moves with cement shoes in pass blocking. Hutch is good both as a drive blocker and pass pro, Sullivan, Herrera and Loadholdt are terrible.

They are one of the highest scoring teams, not near the top in sacks given up, and if I remember correctly gave Favre an hour and a half to stand back there and wait for the WRs to get in the right spot last Packer game. They have a great running game as well, and it's takes blocking even for AD. Saying those guys are terrible is just ridiculous. And if you want to further prove that, how would you rate them vs Pack's OL?

Pack OL is not good and we all know that but the Vikes OL can be exploited and it has been shown throughout the season. Watch the games AP gets basically to the line and makes his moves sometimes in the backfield. They are in thebottom halfof theNFL as a unit...we may be the bottom :(

[The Shadow]

Time for Greg Jennings to have a monster game.
Any news on Finley?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Time for Greg Jennings to have a monster game.
Any news on Finley?

Yesterday McCarthy talked about him playing even though he didn't practice. I think it's a smoke screen, but who knows.