Difficult Parting Ways

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-difficult-parting-of-Favre-and-the-Packers.html

Overall, I think pretty fair--although it seems to talk about the things that Ted did wrong more than what Brett might have done wrong (other than the tidbit he throws in here at the end of the following). Probably natural coming from a guy who was basically fired by Ted. I think Brandt does a good job though.


Mutual mistrust ensued again with Brett’s desire to play for the Vikings and, in the view of the Packers, having extensive communication about doing so. The Packers obviously were not going to let that happen and were exasperated when the NFL dismissed tampering charges despite what they felt was strong evidence against their rival. That episode further enhanced the existing rivalry that continues Sunday.

Once set free from the Jets last winter, Brett was finally was able achieve the result he and the Vikings had pursued for more than a year. Brett now is linked at the hip to offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell, a member of Mike Sherman’s staff in Green Bay that treated Brett and his family the way felt they should be treated given his accomplishments with the team.

Let me say this: I agree with the decision by my former team to move to the future with Rodgers. It was not like the Packers were moving forward with a stopgap veteran quarterback. I also believe that whatever communication Brett had with the Vikings a year ago complicated matters for all sides and that Brett could have handled himself better at the end of the relationship as well.

The only major problem I had with the article was the line about the Packers detailing the sequence of events. They pretty much stayed away from public comments. They came out with that after going through a crapload of Favre propoganda--that seemed mostly to stem from the Favre camp.

I'm sure pro-Favre people will read this article and say Ted did him wrong, but I came away thinking that Favre's ego was as big of a problem.

[Waldo]

I think one point he is making in it, that he doesn't make as clear as the others.

The Packers knew that had a very, very, very good QB in Rodgers. (MM's coaches coached at the PB after '07, and they say that AR was every bit the passer, if not better, than the guys they worked with at the PB).

Fans had very little window into AR's play until a few games into last season. MM and TT had literally seen him perform in hundreds of practices and knew him quite well.

Based on my pathetic personal scouting from preseason tape, I would have started Rodgers in '07, a year sooner.

I think that is the one point that he runs around but never really hammers home. Brett's departure was not a product of his retirement, that offseason, and whatnot. The team decided prior to that that they were moving on to Aaron.

Most analysts at the time were flabbergasted that the Packers were picking Aaron over Brett, that in fact they felt that Aaron gave them the best chance to win.

The difficult part is how to get rid of Brett then. He surely could not coexist with Aaron as a backup.

I do understand Ted, and where this whole problem is created. He seems like a very honest man, but not an open honest man. Brett retiring was the only way this thing would be easy. Telling Brett that the team decided to move on, prior to him announcing his retirement decision, was not a conversation that I would want to have with him.

[RashanGary]

That was a pretty fantastic write up. I guess I would say WOW. The only thing I didn't like was the underlying sentiment that Brett deserved special treatment. I think that's just silly. Like, "he's a diva, but he deserves to be a diva" type thing. It's crazy how many people think this guy deserves special treatment.

I agree that the Packers errored by not talking to him about moving on when they moved on. He was used to a family type atmosphere where the Packers would just never move on and TT was all business, almost like he expected Favre to understand that. That made Favre feel slighted. I kind of blame Wolf and Sherman. Football is such a business, you can't let it get that warm and cozy because moving on is inevitable at some point.

It's really just one big case of human nature and values not mixing and blowing up. This article helps understand Favre more, but still doesn't make any of it right.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The article was actually kind of cathartic. (Apparently, my new favorite word, but I couldn't think of anything better.) Both are to blame. Personally, I've moved on. I think the play of Rodgers has allowed me to get over this sooner. I still like Brett. Welcome him back in due time. Right now, he's the enemy. Let's put a notch in the loss column for him.

[MadtownPacker]

Interesting article.

Now let's all trash Harv for making a thread about!! :twisted:

[woodbuck27]

Yes I remain loyal as a respectful fan to all that is Brett Favre. I refuse to wollow in all the incriminations that I'm open to in that loyality. For that loyality I feel I'm one of the winners overall. I'm a Packer fan (have been for over 50 years now). I get a bonus. I have the luxury of still being thrilled by the fine skills and play that Favre demonstrates every game he remains behind center. Brett Favre is still at age 40 very special and a very competent NFL QB.

I just read the article and from it gleemed this:

'' Even upon his retirement, the Packers knew -- or should have known -- that Brett would not stay retired. They knew Brett and knew when the calendar moved closer to training camp, that he would want to play again. At the time of his retirement, as hard a conversation as it would have been, the Packers could have had an open and honest communication that they were moving on with Aaron, someone they had been grooming for three years, and any un-retirement would not be welcome. That conversation, however difficult, would have headed off the enmity to come.

Instead, there was growing distance between the parties, even with an awkward attempt to have Brett stay retired with a marketing deal with the team. Favre and the Packers retreated to their media sources to spin their stories. The Packers even uncharacteristically detailed the sequence of events that showed Brett’s vacillations, incensing Favre and his family. ''

As a Packer fan therein lies the rub. The catalyst of the problem that is so annoying to those of us that still enjoy Favre in the NFL. Favre retired! No way given the way he's demonstrated his skills and overall winning ways since his eviction from Green Bay.

I have zero issue with Aaron Rodgers as our QB. That is working out just fine. I'm annoid that again and more than hinted at in the above and in the article as a whole. Our esteemed GM Ted Thompson demonstrated his inability and insensitivity . . . the balls (excuse the bluntness) . . . to at least reward Brett Favre with the respect his career as a Green Bay Packer and especially his play in 2007 deserved.

I am and was relieved that Favre got away from Ted Thompson. It was obvious to me as ' just a Packer fan' that they were far apart in their personal goals. Just one example of this as a fact. Ted Thompson was a mere wanna be ' winner GM ' in the means and detail required to acquire such a talent as we deserved in Randy Moss. ( Request: Leave all prejuidices aside ...please. ) We are well aware how much Favre desired this fine WR on our side. That 'muck up' had to go a long ways to causing bad feelings. between Favre and Ted Thompson. I believe if we had Moss and Favre in 2008. We would have been far more likely to win another Super Bowl.

Was Favre's ego given a real kick? At first maybe it was but for some time that's not an issue for Brett Favre. I believe when it's all said and done as NFL fans, we'll realize that ' Yes ' It was time for Brett Favre to get out of Green Bay. His teams 15 wins in 23 games says Favre's doing ' just fine ' with Ted Thompson's decision to move to a new era.

We now cheer for Aaron Rodgers. Soon after the loss to the Giants Ted Thompson should have informed Brett Favre that Aaron Rodgers would be the Packers starting QB in 2008. Favre had two years remaining under contract. In fairness Ted Thompson should have bought Favre out of that contract and given him his outright release. Ted Thompson wanted far too much. To cover too many bases and too little credibility with not only (maybe) Favre but many Packer fans to go there.

[sharpe1027]

Personally, I think this is how it should have read:

Even upon his retirement, the Packers knew -- or should have known -- that Brett wanted to play for the Vikings. They knew based on his retire-unretire stunt, admissions to Campen, and close contacts with Childress and Bevell that he would want to play for the Vikings. Before going public with his unretirement, as hard a conversation as it would have been, Favre could have had an open and honest communication that he wanted to move on, something he had been chewing on for years. That conversation, however difficult, would have headed off the enmity to come.

[Partial]

Personally, I think this is how it should have read:

Even upon his retirement, the Packers knew -- or should have known -- that Brett wanted to play for the Vikings. They knew based on his retire-unretire stunt, admissions to Campen, and close contacts with Childress and Bevell that he would want to play for the Vikings. Before going public with his unretirement, as hard a conversation as it would have been, Favre could have had an open and honest communication that he wanted to move on, something he had been chewing on for years. That conversation, however difficult, would have headed off the enmity to come.

He wanted to leave a very young, very talented team that was took the world champion to overtime in their final game?

That makes ZERO sense. The Vikings business started up after the Pack moved on.

[woodbuck27]

Personally, I think this is how it should have read:

Even upon his retirement, the Packers knew -- or should have known -- that Brett wanted to play for the Vikings. They knew based on his retire-unretire stunt, admissions to Campen, and close contacts with Childress and Bevell that he would want to play for the Vikings. Before going public with his unretirement, as hard a conversation as it would have been, Favre could have had an open and honest communication that he wanted to move on, something he had been chewing on for years. That conversation, however difficult, would have headed off the enmity to come.

He wanted to leave a very young, very talented team that was took the world champion to overtime in their final game?

That makes ZERO sense. The Vikings business started up after the Pack moved on.

Partial. Yes 'of course' all the evidence supports your position.

[Smidgeon]

This is why it's a PR fight and why people can't agree. The situation can be perceived to be slanted one way or the other by people on both sides of the issue. If it was clearer, there'd be less infighting.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Favre had two years remaining under contract. In fairness Ted Thompson should have bought Favre out of that contract and given him his outright release. Ted Thompson wanted far too much. To cover too many bases and too little credibility with not only (maybe) Favre but many Packer fans to go there.

TT didn't want BF playing against him, so he traded him in that fashion. That's looking out for the Packers' best interest.

[Brandon494]

Favre had two years remaining under contract. In fairness Ted Thompson should have bought Favre out of that contract and given him his outright release. Ted Thompson wanted far too much. To cover too many bases and too little credibility with not only (maybe) Favre but many Packer fans to go there.

TT didn't want BF playing against him, so he traded him in that fashion. That's looking out for the Packers' best interest.

+1

Why would TT trade him to the Vikings when he knew they were a QB away from being a SB contender?

[Smidgeon]

Favre had two years remaining under contract. In fairness Ted Thompson should have bought Favre out of that contract and given him his outright release. Ted Thompson wanted far too much. To cover too many bases and too little credibility with not only (maybe) Favre but many Packer fans to go there.

TT didn't want BF playing against him, so he traded him in that fashion. That's looking out for the Packers' best interest.

+1

Why would TT trade him to the Vikings when he knew they were a QB away from being a SB contender?

I don't remember who made this point and I fully admit it wasn't my idea, but how much do you think the Vikings would have been willing to give up in a trade for Favre? I think it certainly would have been more than what the Jets gave up. Taking away high draft picks can hamstring a franchise. We'll see that theory proven front and center with Chicago in the next couple years.

[Rastak]

Moot point. Never in a million years would TT have traded him to the Vikings. That would have been worse than cutting him and having him sign there for the general Packer fan I bet.....and he never probably even remotely considered cutting him.

[Smidgeon]

Moot point. Never in a million years would TT have traded him to the Vikings. That would have been worse than cutting him and having him sign there for the general Packer fan I bet.....and he never probably even remotely considered cutting him.

Well, I was suggesting a why. That doesn't mean I think he should have. I'm just offering suggestions. I agree that he wouldn't have done it, but it doesn't mean no why existed.

[Rastak]

Moot point. Never in a million years would TT have traded him to the Vikings. That would have been worse than cutting him and having him sign there for the general Packer fan I bet.....and he never probably even remotely considered cutting him.

Well, I was suggesting a why. That doesn't mean I think he should have. I'm just offering suggestions. I agree that he wouldn't have done it, but it doesn't mean no why existed.


Sure, I see what you are saying. One could argue that had they been offered a couple 1st round picks they'd be kind of stupid not to take it. I guess that answers why he might. I guess I never saw that sort of scenario as a valid possibility.

[sharpe1027]

He wanted to leave a very young, very talented team that was took the world champion to overtime in their final game?

That makes ZERO sense. The Vikings business started up after the Pack moved on.

He retired didn't he?
He tried to un-retired at an inconvenient time and then backed out when it looked like they would welcome him back.
He was talking a lot with both his friend Bevell and for some reason also with Childress.
A bunch rumors started leaking about him unretiring, which he first denied, then shortly thereafter confirmed.
A bunch of nasty stuff about TT and the Packers was leaked to the media by "sources close to Favre".
Favre finally called the Packers and proceeded to tell them he wanted back in, but that he couldn't commit 100%.
The very next day Favre publicly asks to be released outright (shows real commitment to the team...he took the time to have one phone call).
Favre throws his "friend" Campen under the bus for no good reason.
Favre pulled similar stuff with the Jets, whom actually complied.
The most telling fact, where is he now?

I agree, it makes zero sense, but I still believe it is the most likely scenario. "Of course" I have no facts whatsoever to back me up. Call it a hunch.

Moving on.

[Kiwon]

I read the article and imagine that it is a fairly objective take on things.

The full story won't ever be known until TT, Brett, and someone in the Vikings leadership each detail what actually transpired on their ends.

Oh, that might happen in, say,.....25 years.

[Scott Campbell]

Andy was gone when this went down. He may have heard more than most people, but it's not like he was there as a first person witness as it all unraveled.

[bobblehead]

This week only I comment on him:

1) He didn't like MM and TT from the start. They refused to listen to him about who to sign/hire. I want Marriuchi, I want Moss, I don't want a QB in the first round, he won't help us win now.

2) MM demanded players show up for OTA's and work in the offseason. The team also sent a personal trainer to Mississippi prior to the '07 season to make sure he worked out. He was hard on Brett in making him study film and put in the extra time. This was well documented right from the start, not just near the end. Brett resented all of that.

3) MM was livid every time Brett threw a stupid pass in a close game....something else Brett didn't like. Constantly harped on him in practice to stop throwing late down the middle.

4) When MM and TT basically told brett they would be sending the personal trainer again before the '08 season I think Brett couldn't take anymore. He retired, but I believe he got even more bitter in the following weeks and was working towards getting to Minnesota from that point on.

When he talked to them right before the draft I am betting they said "great, we'll send the trainer down and expect you for mini's and OTAs" He stayed retired, but hatched the plan....not too long later the rumors started, the agent asked for his release with the "brett just wants to play football" talk.

TT stood firm. ARod had devoted all his offseason time getting ready, and was. TT told brett sure, come to camp, we need a veteran backup. Brett decided if he turned it into a circus/media war TT would blink and release him. We all know how it ended. Brett went to NY knowing he could leverage that into Minnesota this season...I would bet Chilly knew last year already that he would have BF this season.

One thing I disagree with waldo on. If BF had devoted to working out and Mini's and OTA's after the '07 season MM would have loved to have him back. In '07 Brett was finally playing smart football again for the first time since Holmgren left.

I think in BF's mind he believes they totally did him wrong. In MM's mind he had a player not committed to the game the way he wanted and wasn't going to blink...if he did, he wouldn't be able to get woodson, harris, driver, ect. to live up to his standards.

Personally I side with MM and TT on this one. I had wanted BF to retire for 2 years before '07....then finally I wanted him back for the first time and he retired...sort of. Brett was within his rights to maneuver his way to minny, but I'm within my rights to hope he gets knocked flat and blown out sunday.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't buy #3 about film study. From most accounts, Brett studied a lot later in his career.

[Fred's Slacks]

I don't get it. On one hand I hear the argument that he didn't like TT because he wouldn't make the moves needed to land the big time players. But on the other hand I hear the question as to why he'd want to leave a young talented team he just lead to the NFC title game? So Brett doesn't like TT because he surrounds him with young talent?

[Scott Campbell]

Brett didn't like Ted because he wouldn't be his bitch the way Sherman was.

[Rastak]

I don't get it. On one hand I hear the argument that he didn't like TT because he wouldn't make the moves needed to land the big time players. But on the other hand I hear the question as to why he'd want to leave a young talented team he just lead to the NFC title game? So Brett doesn't like TT because he surrounds him with young talent?

Yea, I hear what you are saying. He said 2007 Packers were the most talented team he ever played with...as a side note I see the 1996 Packers didn't say shit when he said that.


I don't get the conspiracy arguments.

[Partial]

Wow, some of you guys are making some hefty assumptions. I think it's a simple as ARod being a free agent after last year and they wanted to keep him long term. Simple as that.

Andy Brandt's story is probably as good as we'll get.

[Scott Campbell]

I think it's a simple as ARod being a free agent after last year and they wanted to keep him long term.


Then you'd be wrong. Again.

[Scott Campbell]

Yea, I hear what you are saying. He said 2007 Packers were the most talented team he ever played with...as a side note I see the 1996 Packers didn't say shit when he said that.



That was before the scarlet letter.

[mraynrand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWbNgIc2TVM


And in case that wasn't enough pure treacle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWbNgIc2TVM

[Pugger]

I don't get it. On one hand I hear the argument that he didn't like TT because he wouldn't make the moves needed to land the big time players. But on the other hand I hear the question as to why he'd want to leave a young talented team he just lead to the NFC title game? So Brett doesn't like TT because he surrounds him with young talent?

Yea, I hear what you are saying. He said 2007 Packers were the most talented team he ever played with...as a side note I see the 1996 Packers didn't say shit when he said that.


I don't get the conspiracy arguments.

That's because BF was talking about a Packer team and not a Viking team. :wink:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Another solid take.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091030/PKR07/91030158/1058/PKR01/Pete-Dougherty-column--Packers--breakup-with-Favre-was-inevitable

[SnakeLH2006]

Brett didn't like Ted because he wouldn't be his bitch the way Sherman was.

:lol:

[rbaloha1]

Both parties got what they wanted -- Packers replacing a hof qb with a young franchise qb and #4 playing for the Vikings for obvious reasons. Thrilled this is finally settled 11/01.

[RashanGary]

I'm much more at peace with the way it ended. I never let myself belief Favre's self-esteem was so fickle and bitch-like, but he was hurt like a unappreciated housewife.

It was like your girl friend giving you a BJ, but being angry about it the whole time like it's BS she has to do that shit. Brett just needs a little whisper in his ear about how much you love him from time to time for him to give good head.


In the end, the guy was just way too thin skinned and he fought back with everythign he had. I hope he loses because his act was immature at best and down right destructive and mean spirited at worst. Either way, I think our guys were acting like good, mature adults with good intentions and I'm proud to be a Packer fan.

[Pugger]

This is what I find incredible = that BF would feel so slighted by MM and TT cuz they didn't call him to beg him to return so he just quit! :!: Was it Sherman that turned BF into such a diva? Why would a QB with his accomplishments and acclaim need to be coddled like that?

[gex]

I think it's a simple as ARod being a free agent after last year and they wanted to keep him long term.


Then you'd be wrong. Again.

You offer nothing SC, please go back to the other forum.

[Partial]

I think it's a simple as ARod being a free agent after last year and they wanted to keep him long term.


Then you'd be wrong. Again.

You're correct he had a 5 year contract not a four but the entire principal still applies.

[Scott Campbell]

I think it's a simple as ARod being a free agent after last year and they wanted to keep him long term.


Then you'd be wrong. Again.

You offer nothing SC, please go back to the other forum.


I'm here for you buddy. Anytime you need me.

[sharpe1027]

This is what I find incredible = that BF would feel so slighted by MM and TT cuz they didn't call him to beg him to return so he just quit! :!: Was it Sherman that turned BF into such a diva? Why would a QB with his accomplishments and acclaim need to be coddled like that?

He also said he felt they pressured him too much and forced him to make a decision. Yet, at his retirement he vehemently denied being pressured. According to Bert, it's their fault because called him too much AND because didn't call him enough. He seems a difficult guy to please.

He also accused them of being dishonest and being tricked into coming back, saying that he was promised that Wahle and/or Rivera were to be resigned. Yet, he didn't announce his comeback until AFTER they had been resigned.

Personally, he seems a bit delusional. A good guy a heart, but delusional nevertheless.

[Fritz]

I think Brandt's and Dougherty's articles seem to demonstrate a sense of not only understanding about what happened, but a sense that there's no need to blame one side or the other. They both screwed up.

Based on what I've seen out of Ted, I do believe that he has a hard time with confrontation (don't we all, yes, but for a GM you have to be able to do that) and this greatly contributed to the problem. Had he been more willing to say to Bert, hey, buddy, we're moving on if you don't give us an up-or-down right away, then things might've shaken out differently.

On the other hand, as Sharpe notes, Favre sure is an insecure guy. If he really wanted to come back to play he ought to have said so instead of doing that passive/aggressive thing - I'll do what I think you want me to do but then I'll be pissed at you for what I have done.

We're all starting to come to terms with the parting now, I think.

[sharpe1027]

I think Brandt's and Dougherty's articles seem to demonstrate a sense of not only understanding about what happened, but a sense that there's no need to blame one side or the other. They both screwed up.

Based on what I've seen out of Ted, I do believe that he has a hard time with confrontation (don't we all, yes, but for a GM you have to be able to do that) and this greatly contributed to the problem. Had he been more willing to say to Bert, hey, buddy, we're moving on if you don't give us an up-or-down right away, then things might've shaken out differently.

On the other hand, as Sharpe notes, Favre sure is an insecure guy. If he really wanted to come back to play he ought to have said so instead of doing that passive/aggressive thing - I'll do what I think you want me to do but then I'll be pissed at you for what I have done.

We're all starting to come to terms with the parting now, I think.

Excellent characterization. Moving on. :)

[Partial]

I will say this:

If it didn't happen in 2008, it certainly would have happened this year. They probably would have just cut Brett instead of trading him to save face (I would think), because had he played and didn't do the whole retirement thing it would look awfully bad if they didn't start him.

They weren't going to let Rodgers walk, or sign him to a big deal without seeing him in games. He was definitely playing this year regardless if Favre was the starter last year or not. Nobody is a big enough cock gobbler to sit Brett knowing he has the streak, etc, not to mention the PR nightmare, so my guess is they would have cut him loose to join whomever he wanted.

Rodgers obviously isn't a Brett Favre like talent, but he'll be a solid guy who can take a loaded team to the playoffs. I don't think we can reasonably expect to make the playoffs ten years in a row, for example, since we don't have the best player (by far and away at that) in the division anymore..

[MichiganPackerFan]

Rodgers obviously isn't a Brett Favre like talent, but he'll be a solid guy who can take a loaded team to the playoffs. I don't think we can reasonably expect to make the playoffs ten years in a row, for example, since we don't have the best player (by far and away at that) in the division anymore..

I heartily disagree. Favre was one of the all time greats, but AR is no slouch. Time will tell, but it's WAY to early to say either way.