Mike McCarthy is NOT the answer.

[Brandon494]

TT is not that bad of a GM, but I'm fucking sick of MM. His play calling is atrocious and each year he has been here we are one of the most penalized teams in the league. People want to blame TT all they want and maybe he does deserve some blame for hiring MM but MM is not the answer at HC. He NEVER wins the big game and rarely makes half time adjustments. Its time to let him go or have someone start calling plays who is not afraid to run the damn ball.

[sheepshead]

If we miss the playoffs, I agree. MM has to go.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I agree, and I never thought I'd say that. At least this game is on him.

Earlier in the week I posted this:


McCarthy may be the key to the game:

1) He's got to get and maintain the team in a high emotional state;

2) He's got to get the message across that this game will be one or lost on mistakes, penalties and turnovers. His guys have to keep their heads in the game;

3) McCarthy has to keep his head in the game calling plays. He can't be panicking, trying trick plays on 1st down, or taking three consecutive shots deep downfield for three and outs (taking no time off the clock and administering no punishment to the defense). Three and outs are OK inititally if we're gaining positive yardage per play by running or with short, quick passes and administering hits. MM has to call a New England-style plodding, positive-gain football game. He has to maintain for the rest of the game the same rhythm he usually establishes on his first drive.

Anyone who watched this game think McCarthy New Englanded MN?

[rbaloha1]

Takes too long to get AR in rhythm.

Capers needs to allow the dbs to play more press coverage which also helps with blitzing.

#4 owns the PAckers.

[mission]

I've been telling you Bozos this for two years...

[Partial]

I've been telling you Bozos this for two years...

I've been right with you.

This team doesn't play with any fire. Rodgers is the only one with passion today. And Driver/Jennings.

[red]

m3 can't coach

he's bad at play calling

he can't get a team prepared to play

he can't adjust

and he has no control over his team, no discipline

time for him to go

we got rid of the last coach for the same reasons, except he won more

[mr_blonde]

I concur. McCarthy is consistently out coached and it's really apparent when the Packers play teams with winning records.

As bad as the Packers played in the first 2+ quarters of the game, they had the ball at the Viking 27; 2nd and 2; driving to take the lead .... then, Lang forgets to block Allen leading to a sack and on third and long; an incomplete pass leading to McCarthy's worst call of the day ... the 51 yard FG attempt.

Crosby can't make a 50+ FG, especially outdoors. If the attempt was 45-47 yards then going for the FG makes sense; cut the lead to two and hold'em. But a 50+ yard attempt by a kicker who has not proven he can hit a FG consistently from that distance ... no way ... especially outdoors.

Go for it on fourth and 8. The Packers could have converted; momentum was on their side still. If you make it great, if not, hold'em. You are still only 5 points down and at least the Vikings don't get another 8 yards up the field to begin their drive.

[Sactopackfan]

Paging Mike Holmgren, please pick up line 3, Ted Thompson would like to speak with you...

[gbgary]

Mike McCarthy is NOT the answer.

depends on the question.

[Badgerinmaine]

I'm exasperated with him too, but let's think about this when we aren't all hurting from a painful divisional loss.

[Brohm]

I just don't understand why he does not see the obvious shit. Either he thinks this team is more talented than it is or he just cannot adapt to the abilities of the players on the field. Just mind-boggling the 5, 7- step drops in the first half after getting smoked for 8 sacks the first game. No protection adjustments with players or the calling until the second half. 6 more sacks today. Just ludicrous. Yes Rodgers held the ball too long on some of them, but you cannot ask him to trust the offense and just launch it and leave no dump offs.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I concur. McCarthy is consistently out coached and it's really apparent when the Packers play teams with winning records.

As bad as the Packers played in the first 2+ quarters of the game, they had the ball at the Viking 27; 2nd and 2; driving to take the lead .... then, Lang forgets to block Allen leading to a sack and on third and long; an incomplete pass leading to McCarthy's worst call of the day ... the 51 yard FG attempt.

Crosby can't make a 50+ FG, especially outdoors. If the attempt was 45-47 yards then going for the FG makes sense; cut the lead to two and hold'em. But a 50+ yard attempt by a kicker who has not proven he can hit a FG consistently from that distance ... no way ... especially outdoors.

Go for it on fourth and 8. The Packers could have converted; momentum was on their side still. If you make it great, if not, hold'em. You are still only 5 points down and at least the Vikings don't get another 8 yards up the field to begin their drive.

I hold McCarthy responsible for all the penalties, especially the Jolly head butt. He didn't have them ready. And I'll say it again. He didn't put the players into a position to succeed.

On the field goal, I'll give him a pass, although I think I would have punted. I anticipated this would be a field position, grind it out kind of game. He killed me with all those plays where Rodgers drops back 10 yards to pass and looks deep down field. Dink and dunk and a heavy dose of Grant and Green would have won this game. Ball control. Keep it out of MN's hands. If that's obvious to me, it should be obvious to MM.

[sheepshead]

Go for it on fourth and 8. The Packers could have converted; momentum was on their side still. If you make it great, if not, hold'em. You are still only 5 points down and at least the Vikings don't get another 8 yards up the field to begin their drive.

Normally this would sound like hind-site but I was thinking the exact same thing. I know he's playing percentages , but Ol' Mason has let us down too many times.

[sheepshead]

That long try to Jennings on the second possession looked like MM of game 1 and 2. He needed to be establishing rhythm at that point.

[pittstang5]

I concur. McCarthy is consistently out coached and it's really apparent when the Packers play teams with winning records.

As bad as the Packers played in the first 2+ quarters of the game, they had the ball at the Viking 27; 2nd and 2; driving to take the lead .... then, Lang forgets to block Allen leading to a sack and on third and long; an incomplete pass leading to McCarthy's worst call of the day ... the 51 yard FG attempt.

Crosby can't make a 50+ FG, especially outdoors. If the attempt was 45-47 yards then going for the FG makes sense; cut the lead to two and hold'em. But a 50+ yard attempt by a kicker who has not proven he can hit a FG consistently from that distance ... no way ... especially outdoors.

Go for it on fourth and 8. The Packers could have converted; momentum was on their side still. If you make it great, if not, hold'em. You are still only 5 points down and at least the Vikings don't get another 8 yards up the field to begin their drive.

Nice to see that I'm not the only one thinking this. I was screaming at the TV...WHY? WHY? Why are they kicking it...Crosby chokes in these situations! I too just wanted them to go for it. The only bad situatiion would have been a sack...which today was definately in the cards.

[green_bowl_packer]

Paging Mike Holmgren, please pick up line 3, Ted Thompson would like to speak with you...

That'd be nice; but he wants a Parcell's type gig running the whole football operations.

[ThunderDan]

Go for it on fourth and 8. The Packers could have converted; momentum was on their side still. If you make it great, if not, hold'em. You are still only 5 points down and at least the Vikings don't get another 8 yards up the field to begin their drive.

Normally this would sound like hind-site but I was thinking the exact same thing. I know he's playing percentages , but Ol' Mason has let us down too many times.

Mason really hasn't let us down.

How many 50+ yards in November at Lambeau do you expect to make? I would have punted and hoped the D held again on a long field.

[Sactopackfan]

Paging Mike Holmgren, please pick up line 3, Ted Thompson would like to speak with you...

That'd be nice; but he wants a Parcell's type gig running the whole football operations.


Well, the way this train is headed, it may not be a bad option. Holmgren was pretty damn good at talent evaluation.

[Brohm]

6 more sacks today. 3 more for Jared Allen. Nothing to see here....

[mr_blonde]

Paging Mike Holmgren, please pick up line 3, Ted Thompson would like to speak with you...

That'd be nice; but he wants a Parcell's type gig running the whole football operations.

I'm not so sure. I think Holmgren and Thompson had a real good working relationship. Coming back to GB with a good group of young, talented players as well as a franchise QB, may be appealing to MH. We shall see ...

Nonetheless, there are several outstanding, Super Bowl Championship Head Coaches that could be available .... (Shanahan, Holmgren, Cowher, Gruden .... and my personal favorite; Dungy). I would think one of them would find the Green Bay job attractive????

[mmmdk]

Paging Mike Holmgren, please pick up line 3, Ted Thompson would like to speak with you...

That'd be nice; but he wants a Parcell's type gig running the whole football operations.

I'm not so sure. I think Holmgren and Thompson had a real good working relationship. Coming back to GB with a good group of young, talented players as well as a franchise QB, may be appealing to MH. We shall see ...

Nonetheless, there are several outstanding, Super Bowl Championship Head Coaches that could be available .... (Shanahan, Holmgren, Cowher, Gruden .... and my personal favorite; Dungy). I would think one of them would find the Green Bay job attractive????

So let's go get a real head coach. I've wanted McCoach gone from the get go.

I want Cowher or Dungy.

[Brandon494]

Cowher would never come to GB and Dungy I believe is done coaching football.

[hoosier]

Chicken Little rears his ugly head after another loss to the Vikings. Crap. We are in for a full week of listening to how McCarthy is the second coming of Forrest Greg and needs to go now. Needs to go yesterday.

Some things are definitely not right with the Packers just now. While the defense has been a mildly pleasant surprise in the first half (I was expecting a few more bumps in the road while adjusting to the new system), the offense has been a major disappointment. ARod is holding the ball too damn long. The offensive line still hasn't jelled. Too many dumb penalties.

Firing McCarthy is no guarantee that these problems will get fixed, or that other problems will not appear. And it will set the team back in a big way in terms of continuity. Given the new defense and a QB who is still struggling to put it all together, he deserves at least through 2010 before declaring that it's a bad fit.

[BallHawk]

I don't have so much a problem with him as a coach. I think he does a decent job with his players. He's no Holmgren, but he's not atrociously bad.....but his playcalling is. It seems as though everybody can see what's going to happen with his plays, except him. He abandons the run on the account that his pathetic toss plays don't work. He refuses to call the short slant that worked so well in the past (and the Vikings). He cannot make the right call in a crucial situation. A 51 yard FG to make it a 2 point game? Seriously?

I never had a problem with him before this game. But, for some reason, a light just went on for me.

[Scott Campbell]

The Jolly penalty really ticked me off. He's not getting through to these guys. There have to be consequences.

[BallHawk]

The Jolly penalty really ticked me off. He's not getting through to these guys. There have to be consequences.

I don't blame McCarthy for that.....Jolly is just that damn stupid.

[Scott Campbell]

The Jolly penalty really ticked me off. He's not getting through to these guys. There have to be consequences.

I don't blame McCarthy for that.....Jolly is just that damn stupid.



Have to sit the guy, and any other fools that get the boneheaded penalties.

[Sactopackfan]

Did we run one screen play all game? I recall A. Green was pretty damn solid at that in years past. It would've been nice to see MM call a few.

[Partial]

Did we run one screen play all game? I recall A. Green was pretty damn solid at that in years past. It would've been nice to see MM call a few.

Yes Green caught a screen today and lowered the boom on an unfortunate Viking.

[BallHawk]

The Jolly penalty really ticked me off. He's not getting through to these guys. There have to be consequences.

I don't blame McCarthy for that.....Jolly is just that damn stupid.



Have to sit the guy, and any other fools that get the boneheaded penalties.

We don't have the luxury of sitting arguably our 2nd best player on the DL.

[Brandon494]

Chicken Little rears his ugly head after another loss to the Vikings. Crap. We are in for a full week of listening to how McCarthy is the second coming of Forrest Greg and needs to go now. Needs to go yesterday.

Some things are definitely not right with the Packers just now. While the defense has been a mildly pleasant surprise in the first half (I was expecting a few more bumps in the road while adjusting to the new system), the offense has been a major disappointment. ARod is holding the ball too damn long. The offensive line still hasn't jelled. Too many dumb penalties.

Firing McCarthy is no guarantee that these problems will get fixed, or that other problems will not appear. And it will set the team back in a big way in terms of continuity. Given the new defense and a QB who is still struggling to put it all together, he deserves at least through 2010 before declaring that it's a bad fit.

No one is saying firing McCarthy is a guarantee to solve those problems, but what we do now is he is NOT the solution! I just think he needs to focus more on being a head coach and let someone start calling plays. Our offense is unbalanced and very predicted.

[mmmdk]

Cowher would never come to GB and Dungy I believe is done coaching football.

So how do you know these things ?

[BallHawk]

Cowher would never come to GB and Dungy I believe is done coaching football.

So how do you know these things ?

He personally knows Bill Cowher. On top of that, Bill Cowher coached in the world class city of Pittsburgh. After coaching in such a fine city, how could you go to a dump like Green Bay?

[Partial]

I think he is saying that Cowher wants to run personnel to, and with teets around thats obviously not gonna happen.

[BallHawk]

I think he is saying that Cowher wants to run personnel to, and with teets around thats obviously not gonna happen.

Source?

[Partial]

I think he is saying that Cowher wants to run personnel to, and with teets around thats obviously not gonna happen.

Source?

I have no source, I'm not saying its a fact, it's an opinion, duh. Pandora and Facebook are turning your brains to mush ;-p

[Scott Campbell]

Were 4-3 coming off an ugly loss. While this eventually my need to happen, the towel won't be thrown in this quickly.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The Jolly penalty really ticked me off. He's not getting through to these guys. There have to be consequences.

I don't blame McCarthy for that.....Jolly is just that damn stupid.



Have to sit the guy, and any other fools that get the boneheaded penalties.

We don't have the luxury of sitting arguably our 2nd best player on the DL.

I don't think it boils down to merely "sitting" a player who screws up. It goes a whole lot deeper than that, and starts very early in the spring. It should be engrained in the team's culture.

McCarthy has had a remarkably cavalier attitude toward penalties, almost excusing them. (Read his press conference transcripts.) I just don't believe penalties should be tolerated or excused as "part of the game." Let penalties be part of the opponents game!

I want to see more fire from the man.

I also want him to quit saying that he's a "rush first" kind of team. That's BS. He is easily lured into a pass first and pass downfield shootout. He loves big plays and he loves trying to create them. "exposive", I think he calls them.

A good example is late in the 4th quarter. It was 3rd and 20 (and you know he's going to go for it on 4th down). What does he do? Takes two futile and low percentage shots at getting all 20 at once. Why not two tens? Why not a cross-up-the-defense run for 10.

The guy is just too damn predictable. He makes the job of the opposing defensive coordinator too damn easy.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Cowher would never come to GB and Dungy I believe is done coaching football.

So how do you know these things ?

He personally knows Bill Cowher. On top of that, Bill Cowher coached in the world class city of Pittsburgh. After coaching in such a fine city, how could you go to a dump like Green Bay?

Pittsburgh=Paris
GB=Copenhagen

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think he is saying that Cowher wants to run personnel to, and with teets around thats obviously not gonna happen.

Source?

I have no source, I'm not saying its a fact, it's an opinion, duh. Pandora and Facebook are turning your brains to mush ;-p

Is it 100% opinion?

[green_bowl_packer]

I think he is saying that Cowher wants to run personnel to, and with teets around thats obviously not gonna happen.

Source?

I have no source, I'm not saying its a fact, it's an opinion, duh. Pandora and Facebook are turning your brains to mush ;-p

The long standing rumor with Cowher is going to Carolina when Fox is done.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2009/09/terry-bradshaw-jake-delhommes-demise-greasing-bill-cowhers-path-to-carolina/1

[Maxie the Taxi]

Maybe all he needs to do is turn over the playcalling to someone else and concentrate on managing the tactics of the game.

(Excuse my ranting. This was a tough loss.)

[Freak Out]

Cowher would never come to GB and Dungy I believe is done coaching football.

So how do you know these things ?

He personally knows Bill Cowher. On top of that, Bill Cowher coached in the world class city of Pittsburgh. After coaching in such a fine city, how could you go to a dump like Green Bay?

Pittsburgh=Minsk
GB=Grozny

Fixed.

Lay off Copenhagen. :)

[mr_blonde]

Chicken Little rears his ugly head after another loss to the Vikings. Crap. We are in for a full week of listening to how McCarthy is the second coming of Forrest Greg and needs to go now. Needs to go yesterday.

Some things are definitely not right with the Packers just now. While the defense has been a mildly pleasant surprise in the first half (I was expecting a few more bumps in the road while adjusting to the new system), the offense has been a major disappointment. ARod is holding the ball too damn long. The offensive line still hasn't jelled. Too many dumb penalties.

Firing McCarthy is no guarantee that these problems will get fixed, or that other problems will not appear. And it will set the team back in a big way in terms of continuity. Given the new defense and a QB who is still struggling to put it all together, he deserves at least through 2010 before declaring that it's a bad fit.

With one playoff appearance in four years; assuming this team does not make the playoffs this year (which is a very real possibility), McCarthy deserves to be fired.

Mike Sherman had .663 winning percentage, five straight winning seasons and three division titles his first years with the Packers ... one year later he's fired for going 4-12 with a team absolutely decimated by injuries!!!

This team is going backwards ... backwards really fast. As far as ARod "struggling to put it together", the only reason the Packers were able to get close in the game today was the play of ARod and the receivers. The OL, Defense and Special Teams sure didn't help out much ...

BTW, with nearly 2000 yards passing, 14TD passes and ONLY 2 interceptions over the first 7 games this season (with a lousy OL and non-existent running game), and still being able to lead the offensive unit to a scoring average of over 27 points a game, I wouldn't say Arod is "struggling".

[Scott Campbell]

He was putrid in the first half - definitely struggled. He played very well in the second half.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Cowher would never come to GB and Dungy I believe is done coaching football.

So how do you know these things ?

He personally knows Bill Cowher. On top of that, Bill Cowher coached in the world class city of Pittsburgh. After coaching in such a fine city, how could you go to a dump like Green Bay?

Pittsburgh=Minsk
GB=Grozny

Fixed.

Lay off Copenhagen. :)

Minsk>Grozny>Manchester>Copenhagen

[denverYooper]

I'm a little puzzled on McCarthy right now. I'm definitely willing to see how the season plays out before I start barking impotently about whether he should be fired or not.

PB had a good post earlier this week (I think) about how McCarthy seems to be a numbers guy, and he's going to run whatever play looks to be the highest probability for success given the down, distance, series, etc. That works if your team is executing. It's not so hot otherwise. I felt like A-Rod was a bit too nervous in the first half and really missed some of his throws that would have made the playcalling look better. In the second half, hey, those guys loosened up and really played well with their backs against the wall. I want to see that team show up for an entire game.

What gets me is this: do these guys break through? What gets them to that point? Strahan pointed out what a lot of Packers fans feel: we have a good team that needs to learn how to win the big games. That's partly on those guys on the team and partly on the coach to guide them to that. This isn't the last big game this year. Do we continue to "almost" win the quality teams and show big heart too late, or do we break through at some point and take a few of those? That goes beyond playcalling, and it's the part of McCarthy's job I am not sure about.

[Brandon494]

Cowher would never come to GB and Dungy I believe is done coaching football.

So how do you know these things ?

He personally knows Bill Cowher. On top of that, Bill Cowher coached in the world class city of Pittsburgh. After coaching in such a fine city, how could you go to a dump like Green Bay?

Pittsburgh=Paris
GB=Copenhagen

I don't know Cowher but Ty understands where I'm coming from. I'm sure GB is a great place to live but it just doesn't have much excitement compared to other markets. Even though I like him, lets not forget Dom Capers was our 3rd choice. When guys like Mike Nolan and Greg Williams turn you down what makes you think big names like Cowher would want to come to GB?

[pbmax]

Cowher won two internal battles for control over personnel. He didn't have total control over everything (like scouting or the draft) but he did have effective authority over the roster. He was all but GM, but not with the pay or title. That is one reason he left.

And he likely isn't coming back for less than what he previously had.

As for M3, Minnesota tells you they are going to work to prevent the deep patterns and we are still chasing them in the first half. Rodgers also had three desperation throws on his last drive, looking deep for receivers that we're double covered.

My gut tells me there is a basic disconnect between his QB and the coach right now. I don't think McCarthy is swayed by Rodgers success, so I think Rodgers' may be getting greedy. He has the talent to succeed by throwing deep, but this is the NFL and, especially if you aren't running it, the deep pass can be taken away. Even with much better pass protection in the second half, they came up empty too many times.

[pbmax]

My biggest question was the 2 point conversion. We miss it and are down five. A FG forces you to make another 2 pt conversion after a TD just to tie. I know that means the game is still in reach in one score, but those are some long odds.

[pbmax]

My only other question is this, I had the same thought watching as Florio at PFT has posted (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/01/packers-blew-chance-to-challenge-favre-to-dugan-touchdown/).


Packers blew chance to challenge Favre-to-Dugan touchdown

Posted by Mike Florio on November 1, 2009 6:45 PM ET
After the Vikings scored on a short touchdown pass from Brett Favre to Jeff Dugan, the Packers missed a great opportunity to challenge the play.

Dugan was going to the ground as he caught the ball and rumbled into the end zone. And when he struck the ground, Dugan lost the ball.

Though it took Dugan several steps to actually fall, he was never upright after making the catch. If the referee had agreed on review, the touchdown would have been taken off the board.

So the Packers should have thrown the red flag. Success would have given the Vikings a fourth down, and they likely would have taken the short field goal, which would have pushed the lead to seven.

Instead, the lead is 11. Though not insurmountable (especially with Aaron Rodgers just giving Vikings fans flashbacks to Steve Young circa 1988), those four points could ultimately make the difference.

[rbaloha1]

MM is disappointing. Play calling is too conservative. Too many penalties and special team breakdowns.

[pbmax]

MM is disappointing. Play calling is too conservative. Too many penalties and special team breakdowns.
You seem to have reached a conclusion in complete opposition to others who watched the game. Can you site an example of his over-cautious ways?

[Partial]

MM is disappointing. Play calling is too conservative. Too many penalties and special team breakdowns.
You seem to have reached a conclusion in complete opposition to others who watched the game. Can you site an example of his over-cautious ways?

I agree with this. It was the YAK that was keeping us in the game the next year. Short crossing routes seem to be our guys bread and butter.

[rbaloha1]

MM is disappointing. Play calling is too conservative. Too many penalties and special team breakdowns.
You seem to have reached a conclusion in complete opposition to others who watched the game. Can you site an example of his over-cautious ways?

How many deep passes? What about trick plays and misdirections? Reverses? My goodness as Aikman mentioned the Vikings all run to the ball quickly. The secondary was also inexperienced.

IMO MM failed to fully exploit the Viking weaknesses. Played not too lose.

[Brandon494]

My only other question is this, I had the same thought watching as Florio at PFT has posted (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/01/packers-blew-chance-to-challenge-favre-to-dugan-touchdown/).


Packers blew chance to challenge Favre-to-Dugan touchdown

Posted by Mike Florio on November 1, 2009 6:45 PM ET
After the Vikings scored on a short touchdown pass from Brett Favre to Jeff Dugan, the Packers missed a great opportunity to challenge the play.

Dugan was going to the ground as he caught the ball and rumbled into the end zone. And when he struck the ground, Dugan lost the ball.

Though it took Dugan several steps to actually fall, he was never upright after making the catch. If the referee had agreed on review, the touchdown would have been taken off the board.

So the Packers should have thrown the red flag. Success would have given the Vikings a fourth down, and they likely would have taken the short field goal, which would have pushed the lead to seven.

Instead, the lead is 11. Though not insurmountable (especially with Aaron Rodgers just giving Vikings fans flashbacks to Steve Young circa 1988), those four points could ultimately make the difference.

Even if MM had challenged the play there was not enough evidence to overrule the call of a TD IMO.

[MJZiggy]

No, sadly he had it across the line before he lost his grip on it.

[BallHawk]

MM only challenges plays that he has no chance of winning (i.e. spot of the ball)

[The Leaper]

I think McCarthy's failure in big games is the worst item on his resume. In the NFL, it is all about winning the big games. The lack of team discipline is the second worst thing about him. The "We are gonna get that fixed" mantra is wearing thin.

If this team doesn't do better than 8-8, I think Thompson needs to think long and hard about the coaching staff...considering the wealth of coaching candidates currently available.

[Chevelle2]

I think McCarthy's failure in big games is the worst item on his resume. In the NFL, it is all about winning the big games. The lack of team discipline is the second worst thing about him. The "We are gonna get that fixed" mantra is wearing thin.

If this team doesn't do better than 8-8, I think Thompson needs to think long and hard about the coaching staff...considering the wealth of coaching candidates currently available.

Agree.

What have been our big games under MM since 06?

@Dallas - team didn't show up
NYG - team didn't show up
SEA - Favre and Grant played very well, but we started 0-14.
IND - Great game
@Min - played hard, but they pulled away late
Min - didnt show up until the 2nd half, and it was too late then

Not a good resume.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think McCarthy's failure in big games is the worst item on his resume. In the NFL, it is all about winning the big games. The lack of team discipline is the second worst thing about him. The "We are gonna get that fixed" mantra is wearing thin.

If this team doesn't do better than 8-8, I think Thompson needs to think long and hard about the coaching staff...considering the wealth of coaching candidates currently available.

Agree.

What have been our big games under MM since 06?

@Dallas - team didn't show up
NYG - team didn't show up
SEA - Favre and Grant played very well, but we started 0-14.
IND - Great game
@Min - played hard, but they pulled away late
Min - didnt show up until the 2nd half, and it was too late then

Not a good resume.

coincidentally, every one of those games Favre played in. :wink:

Maybe not IND...since i don't know what this is.

[pbmax]

No, sadly he had it across the line before he lost his grip on it.
But the rules for a catch have changed. If he was going down in the act of catching the ball and did not control it when hitting the ground, its an incompletion. What I don't know, and what the replay did not show, was how many steps he took before crossing the goal line. If he was going down as he was catching it (instead of running across the goal line in possession) then that wasn't a catch. Its no guarantee, as the NFL has ruled on this inconsistently this year.

[Chevelle2]

I think McCarthy's failure in big games is the worst item on his resume. In the NFL, it is all about winning the big games. The lack of team discipline is the second worst thing about him. The "We are gonna get that fixed" mantra is wearing thin.

If this team doesn't do better than 8-8, I think Thompson needs to think long and hard about the coaching staff...considering the wealth of coaching candidates currently available.

Agree.

What have been our big games under MM since 06?

@Dallas - team didn't show up
NYG - team didn't show up
SEA - Favre and Grant played very well, but we started 0-14.
IND - Great game
@Min - played hard, but they pulled away late
Min - didnt show up until the 2nd half, and it was too late then

Not a good resume.

coincidentally, every one of those games Favre played in. :wink:

Maybe not IND...since i don't know what this is.

Indianapolis last year. And yes, all that Favre played in, because we were so bad in 08 nothing was a big game lol.

[pbmax]

MM is disappointing. Play calling is too conservative. Too many penalties and special team breakdowns.
You seem to have reached a conclusion in complete opposition to others who watched the game. Can you site an example of his over-cautious ways?

How many deep passes? What about trick plays and misdirections? Reverses? My goodness as Aikman mentioned the Vikings all run to the ball quickly. The secondary was also inexperienced.

IMO MM failed to fully exploit the Viking weaknesses. Played not too lose.
11 of 41 pass attempts were deep throws according to the NFL Gamebook. And that tells us nothing of the attempts that resulted in sacks. I think this criticism is misplaced. That seems to be testing a secondary. And remember, the entire Viking D approach to pass defense was to deny the deep passing game.

Vikings may run to the ball quickly, but we had plenty of YAC yards in this game. We also needed to protect the QB better in the second half. And while the Packers did little to demonstrate this, the vaunted Viking running defense has shown some serious holes this year.

Putting the ball in the air 41 times is not playing conservatively. The Vikings short passing game won them the game.

[Fosco33]

The playing calling was pretty suspect - especially in the 1st half. Maybe M3's press conferences are meant to throw misdirections. I wish his playcalling did the same.

1st series - interrupted by Rodgers losing 7 yards on 2nd down. Punt
2nd series - 3 straight passes. Punt
3rd series (on MN 21) - 3rd and 5 - Rodgers sacked. FG
4th series - 3rd and 1 (pass) - Rodgers sacked. Punt
5th series - after a Rodgers sack - 3rd and 18 and incomplete pass. Punt
6th series - first 1st down since opening drive - another sack. Punt.


I can't blame M3 for Rodgers inability to ditch the ball or run for easy 1st downs. But that was downright the worst half of football in about 10 years. Pathetic.

[pbmax]

The playing calling was pretty suspect - especially in the 1st half. Maybe M3's press conferences are meant to throw misdirections. I wish his playcalling did the same.

1st series - interrupted by Rodgers losing 7 yards on 2nd down. Punt
2nd series - 3 straight passes. Punt
3rd series (on MN 21) - 3rd and 5 - Rodgers sacked. FG
4th series - 3rd and 1 (pass) - Rodgers sacked. Punt
5th series - after a Rodgers sack - 3rd and 18 and incomplete pass. Punt
6th series - first 1st down since opening drive - another sack. Punt.


I can't blame M3 for Rodgers inability to ditch the ball or run for easy 1st downs. But that was downright the worst half of football in about 10 years. Pathetic.
Radio guys said he looked like a different player in the first half. Like 2005 Aaron Rodgers.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The playing calling was pretty suspect - especially in the 1st half. Maybe M3's press conferences are meant to throw misdirections. I wish his playcalling did the same.

1st series - interrupted by Rodgers losing 7 yards on 2nd down. Punt
2nd series - 3 straight passes. Punt
3rd series (on MN 21) - 3rd and 5 - Rodgers sacked. FG
4th series - 3rd and 1 (pass) - Rodgers sacked. Punt
5th series - after a Rodgers sack - 3rd and 18 and incomplete pass. Punt
6th series - first 1st down since opening drive - another sack. Punt.


I can't blame M3 for Rodgers inability to ditch the ball or run for easy 1st downs. But that was downright the worst half of football in about 10 years. Pathetic.

Guess you didn't catch that Tenn vs. Pats game this year.

IMHO, Arod played poorly, but at least he wasn't throwing picks and making bonehead plays. The fact that he didn't, allowed us to get back in the game. If Arod has a typical bad qb day..couple of picks and it woulda been 35 to X at half.

[pbmax]

The playing calling was pretty suspect - especially in the 1st half. Maybe M3's press conferences are meant to throw misdirections. I wish his playcalling did the same.

1st series - interrupted by Rodgers losing 7 yards on 2nd down. Punt
2nd series - 3 straight passes. Punt
3rd series (on MN 21) - 3rd and 5 - Rodgers sacked. FG
4th series - 3rd and 1 (pass) - Rodgers sacked. Punt
5th series - after a Rodgers sack - 3rd and 18 and incomplete pass. Punt
6th series - first 1st down since opening drive - another sack. Punt.


I can't blame M3 for Rodgers inability to ditch the ball or run for easy 1st downs. But that was downright the worst half of football in about 10 years. Pathetic.

Guess you didn't catch that Tenn vs. Pats game this year.

IMHO, Arod played poorly, but at least he wasn't throwing picks and making bonehead plays. The fact that he didn't, allowed us to get back in the game. If Arod has a typical bad qb day..couple of picks and it woulda been 35 to X at half.
Odd that McCarthy's philosophy for his QB does not spillover to the rest of the positions on the team.

[packrulz]

The Packers lost to a very powerful team on a roll right now, Minny is right up there with Indy and New Orleans, and the Packers didn't get blown out, they were in position to win the game. And that's with a rookie left tackle (Lang) starting against a pro bowl DE (Allen). Sure, there were some things I would've done differently, but the Vikings were jacked up as usual and don't have many weaknesses to exploit. I do think M3 needs to coach ARod to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack and going backwards, the line needs to stop the stupid penalties, and they need to execute better on special teams. The loss hurts but the season is far from over, so step away from the ledge.

[MJZiggy]

On some of those, he didn't even need to throw it away. He had running room in front of him, he just had to give up the pass and go for it.

[Smidgeon]

For all the comments and frustrations about M3 calling too many long passes, how do we know it wasn't AR electing to look for the long ball instead? As far as I understand it, each play has a progression. You look to one and if that isn't open progress to the next. Maybe AR doesn't trust the play to the point that he'll anticipate a completion window and simply holds the ball waiting for the long completion. Maybe M3 was calling plays with shorter routes but AR wasn't looking for them or didn't trust they'd be there.

I don't know if that was the case. But I thought I'd at least try to bring up the other possibility before we crucify M3. There are two things involved in every play: the play call and the execution. So which one was it?

[woodbuck27]

MM is way too soft and appears to me stiff on the sidelines. By now he should be showing us alot more fire. He has to take pressure off of Aaron Rodgers by relying more on a running game. MM has to be patient and not so much worry about losing but learn how to motivate wins.

When I watch Packer games on the tube it always seems to be about MM frozen on the sideline with his playbook in his face. Just MM and where are the other coach's. Maybe I'm seeing this wrong?

I see this:

MM .................................................. ..................................... TT.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The playing calling was pretty suspect - especially in the 1st half. Maybe M3's press conferences are meant to throw misdirections. I wish his playcalling did the same.

1st series - interrupted by Rodgers losing 7 yards on 2nd down. Punt
2nd series - 3 straight passes. Punt
3rd series (on MN 21) - 3rd and 5 - Rodgers sacked. FG
4th series - 3rd and 1 (pass) - Rodgers sacked. Punt
5th series - after a Rodgers sack - 3rd and 18 and incomplete pass. Punt
6th series - first 1st down since opening drive - another sack. Punt.


I can't blame M3 for Rodgers inability to ditch the ball or run for easy 1st downs. But that was downright the worst half of football in about 10 years. Pathetic.

Guess you didn't catch that Tenn vs. Pats game this year.

IMHO, Arod played poorly, but at least he wasn't throwing picks and making bonehead plays. The fact that he didn't, allowed us to get back in the game. If Arod has a typical bad qb day..couple of picks and it woulda been 35 to X at half.
Odd that McCarthy's philosophy for his QB does not spillover to the rest of the positions on the team.

Just read this and was thinking the exact same thing. For all the praise he gets for reining in Bert and instilling discipline, it certainly doesn't present itself when examining the rest of the team.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

MM is way too soft and appears to me stiff on the sidelines. By now he should be showing us alot more fire. He has to take pressure off of Aaron Rodgers by relying more on a running game. MM has to be patient and not so much worry about losing but learn how to motivate wins.

When I watch Packer games on the tube it always seems to be about MM frozen on the sideline with his playbook in his face. Just MM and where are the other coach's. Maybe I'm seeing this wrong?

I see this:

MM .................................................. ..................................... TT.

1. You are placing YOUR values onto OUR coach. And, your values aren't wrong, but they aren't right either. Plenty of stiff and stoic coaches out there....Landry, Noll, etc.
2. EVERYONE including MM knows about the running game.
3. Patient, etc. How you know about his patience and what goes on behind closed doors is beyond me. You must have a rich and varied fantasy life.
4. Watch TV. Are you seriously going to judge off what YOU see on TV. Beyond the limited scope of time 3 plus hours, the camera angels/choice of shots, and the EXTREMELY short duration MM is actually on the screen you lack ANY sort of comparison to OTHER coaches.

Oh, and it is really dumb to base your thoughts about MM, TT, and the staff based on what you see on TV.

P.S. Reality shows aren't real.

[Scott Campbell]

MM is way too soft and appears to me stiff on the sidelines.



Viva Viagra.

[retailguy]

I'm really starting to question McCarthy. I wasn't a believer in 2006. In 2007, I thought I might have been wrong about him.

This out of control penalty stuff is really concerning me. These guys don't fear getting penalized, at all.

Not good.

[Smidgeon]

I'm really starting to question McCarthy. I wasn't a believer in 2006. In 2007, I thought I might have been wrong about him.

This out of control penalty stuff is really concerning me. These guys don't fear getting penalized, at all.

Not good.

The penalties don't bother me. Not until I can see real correlation between penalties and record. All the correlative tendencies I have seen show there is no correlation. So I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about the friggin' execution by the players on the field, starting with the OL (Campen).

[MichiganPackerFan]

It seems like a lot of the defensive penalties extend drives and the offensive ones end them.

[Smidgeon]

It seems like a lot of the defensive penalties extend drives and the offensive ones end them.

Yeah, but until I see a higher correlation between the most penalized teams and the worst records in the league, I won't be concerned. Of the articles I've read, it seems there is little correlation between penalties and overall wins/losses.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It seems like a lot of the defensive penalties extend drives and the offensive ones end them.

Yeah, but until I see a higher correlation between the most penalized teams and the worst records in the league, I won't be concerned. Of the articles I've read, it seems there is little correlation between penalties and overall wins/losses.

Ty posted something about this as well, a ways back.

Can't remember exactly, but good teams win, regardless of penalties. However, if you look at the teams that make the playoffs, the percent definitely favors the less penalized.

[mraynrand]

It seems like a lot of the defensive penalties extend drives and the offensive ones end them.

It's hard to argue with this kind of statement.

Warm days melt ice whereas ice tends to cool things down.