Besides the OL, what is our biggest problem?

[Partial]

I'm curious to what you all think is the biggest problem besides the OL. It's clear that that is without a doubt the biggest problem.

What positions do we urgently need an upgrade at to improve?

What should be addressed in free agency/draft? What players are likely to be available to fill these roles and why would they be a good fit?

[MJZiggy]

I'm curious to what you all think is the biggest problem besides the OL. It's clear that that is without a doubt the biggest problem.

What positions do we urgently need an upgrade at to improve?

What should be addressed in free agency/draft? What players are likely to be available to fill these roles and why would they be a good fit?

We need the OL to come together and play as a unit more than replacing them. The kids are showing promise, but they're kids.

We need another young corner or two because much as I love Chuck & Al, they won't be around forever. A little more depth at safety would be nice as well.

[Bretsky]

I'm curious to what you all think is the biggest problem besides the OL. It's clear that that is without a doubt the biggest problem.

What positions do we urgently need an upgrade at to improve?

What should be addressed in free agency/draft? What players are likely to be available to fill these roles and why would they be a good fit?

We need the OL to come together and play as a unit more than replacing them. The kids are showing promise, but they're kids.

We need another young corner or two because much as I love Chuck & Al, they won't be around forever. A little more depth at safety would be nice as well.


We don't need kids that show promise; we need lineman that can play now

Bigby is a hitter but not an all around safety.

More pass rushers would be nice

And I'd still take Michael Crabtree to replace Raji any day of the week :!:

[Guiness]

OL is certainly the obvious - 6 more sacks today, we're lucky Rodgers ended the game on his feet. Although with the injury report, it sounds like he barely did.

RB and LB. RB is questionable, with an OL improvement, I'm guessing our RB's look better pretty quickly.

But LB seems a bigger problem, specifically OLB. This is supposed to be a pressure defense, able to get to the QB. That didn't happen today, no sacks.

[MJZiggy]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

[Bretsky]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

[MJZiggy]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?

[Bretsky]

OL is certainly the obvious - 6 more sacks today, we're lucky Rodgers ended the game on his feet. Although with the injury report, it sounds like he barely did.

RB and LB. RB is questionable, with an OL improvement, I'm guessing our RB's look better pretty quickly.

But LB seems a bigger problem, specifically OLB. This is supposed to be a pressure defense, able to get to the QB. That didn't happen today, no sacks.


Good Points

Ideally a Top RB (I'd have no issue with them going with one in round one or trading for a guy like S Jackson) and an OLB with pressure skills would be added as well

[rbaloha1]

IMO the o-line is not as bad as others suggest. MM needs to call better plays.

Pass rushers and a scat back would be nice.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

[Bretsky]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?


Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.

[MJZiggy]

Ok, get rid of both of them. Who are your backups now?

[Bretsky]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.


AROD learned by sitting....different postition but you can develop through practice.

No I think we're stuck with the kids this year; this is that offseason thing called Free Agency. We can only fill so many holes through the draft.

[Bretsky]

Ok, get rid of both of them. Who are your backups now?


The "kids" who are starting but not ready yet

[MJZiggy]

Which free agents are you replacing them with?

[Bretsky]

Which free agents are you replacing them with?


Now you are asking me stupid questions. Which are available ?

Are you saying on typical years there are no availalbe Offensive Lineman who would be better than the kids ?

Or are you going to point out we will be unable to recruit them and sign them anyways so it's hopeless to do anything but try to develop the kids

[Partial]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?


Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.
Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

Exactly. Thanx for making my point. At some point, arod had to play. Not one of the projected starters for this year was a first year player. They have sat on the bench or behind guys for long enough.

Spitz, College, Barbre, Sitton...all have sat enough. Time to see what they have and let them grow together. You need at least a year together (playing the same positions with each other) to make a determination about the line.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?


Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.
Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

Always the voice of sanity.

Yeah, it is much worse to have our guys sucking for low dollars than it would be to spend coin on Pace and have him suck.

That my rats is called sarcasm.

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?
Quarterbacks learn nearly all the positions while studying the playbook. And they do not need to be physically manhandled to learn to play the position well. A lineman needs to know how to combat the opposing techniques by experiencing them, not by watching them.

However, more important to both is practice. The NFL-E was very useful for O lineman (Rivera and Andruzzi) in that they got both.

Seven on seven drills work for the passing game, its harder in these days of limited live hitting to do the same for lineman.

[Partial]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

Exactly. Thanx for making my point. At some point, arod had to play. Not one of the projected starters for this year was a first year player. They have sat on the bench or behind guys for long enough.

Spitz, College, Barbre, Sitton...all have sat enough. Time to see what they have and let them grow together. You need at least a year together (playing the same positions with each other) to make a determination about the line.

That doesn't make your point because that is not at all what you said, unless you're speaking words and not writing them :P

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

Exactly. Thanx for making my point. At some point, arod had to play. Not one of the projected starters for this year was a first year player. They have sat on the bench or behind guys for long enough.

Spitz, College, Barbre, Sitton...all have sat enough. Time to see what they have and let them grow together. You need at least a year together (playing the same positions with each other) to make a determination about the line.

That doesn't make your point because that is not at all what you said, unless you're speaking words and not writing them :P

Dude, the inference is clear. At some point you have to stop sitting and pay your dues. Just like we paid them last year, and to some extent this year from Arod. Just as we paid them for several years under Favre. You of course are too young to remember (or just have forgotten or dismissed it) all the crap Favre pulled.

Just like Arod, these lineman have to be put in the game. Unlike you, i see the exact same pattern as the coaches....arod sat until they thought he was ready..same thing with the lineman..specifically barbre and sitton.

Otherwise, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna determine if they can play and are worth new contracts.

[The Leaper]

RB is a huge concern IMO. If you have to sign Ahman Green to provide pass catching ability at this point, your RB crew is pathetic. Grant is slow and a liability in the passing game. Jackson is a career backup at best. IMO, this team doesn't have a starting caliber RB on the roster.

LB is somewhat of a concern...Matthews looks like a real keeper though.

I'm always a fan of a safety who can make plays on thrown balls...we don't have that IMO.

[Brohm]

Smart football players in general. Those that can block, but not in the back on kick-offs. Those that don't get called for a 15 yard head-butt after stopping them on 3rd and 12. Those that would think, "hey, Jared Allen is going to be free on this play someone should block him." Seen the same down-block error/miscommunication on the rt side, middle as well. A lot of WTF sacks.

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?


Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.
Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

Always the voice of sanity.

Yeah, it is much worse to have our guys sucking for low dollars than it would be to spend coin on Pace and have him suck.

That my rats is called sarcasm.
I will say this. I don't think, in our limited viewing of Lang that he is a Left Tackle of long standing. I think either he or Barbre are the RT of the next seven to ten years. Bretsky, over the long haul will be right about upgrading the position, but it will be a draft pick OR a mistake on a release/FA by another team.

[Bretsky]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?


Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.
Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.


You misunderstood me; I was noting guys like Breno and Smith are around every year after cuts. They have little value on this roster IMO.

Bottom line is the GM needs to get better players on OL if the current guys are not ready to play and be at least average. It's his job.

If we are willing to admit these guys are just kids and not ready to succeed than IMO that is a shortcoming

[Scott Campbell]

Were still not getting a pass rush from the DL. They played very good run D, and goal line D, but Favre got too cozy back there again yesterday. Though not as cozy as the first game.

[Bretsky]

Were still not getting a pass rush from the DL. They played very good run D, and goal line D, but Favre got too cozy back there again yesterday. Though not as cozy as the first game.


It still seemed like a squad that thought if we'd sell out against the run and play pass defense 2nd the opposing QB would either mess up or not make the plays to beat us.

AP was less than dominant but it still didn't work

[Partial]

I understand why Capers didn't want to blitz the inside guys, but why not send the OLBs through the gut, or twist them, or line two up on the same side, or do something different.

I was hoping Capers would be more like Rex Ryan and be unafraid to attack the opposition. This guy may run a Blitzburgh scheme, but we certainly don't play D like the Steelers (which may certainly be due to the transition period of acquiring players and talent). They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I think we need quite a few positions upgrade. The problem is a lot of the type of players we need to fill the positions are typically #1 picks.

We definitely need a #1 invested at left tackle. We need an athlete there that also can generate some serious bull dozing on the ground.

We definitely need a versatile athlete to stretch the field and work on returns. A speedster, versatile player like Teddy Ginn, Hester or Harvin. I've been on this bandwagon for awhile and I hope more people join me on it. Blackman is agile and quick but he does not have elite speed.

We definitely need some bigger linebackers who can get pass rush from the inside. It would be really nice to find a pass rushing OLB to compliment Matthews. I think the DL is solid enough at rushing the passer. Does anyone think the problem is here?

Is Jolly an FA after this year? I think he's a good player but the journalists have stated numerous times they don't foresee him being signed by the Pack as they'll have to pay him too much and they think he's got a little CoWill in him (get lazy after signing big deal -- no idea if CoWill did this or Jolly did, but this is what is alluded). Having a two cent head yesterday certainly isn't helping his case.

[mraynrand]

I understand why Capers didn't want to blitz the inside guys, but why not send the OLBs through the gut, or twist them, or line two up on the same side, or do something different..

Look at the game. He tried all that. It didn't get there. When he loaded up the left side of the Vikings O line - Favre got the ball to Harvin (covered by Kampman). On a zone blitz, you have to get there. The Packers failed. But it's nice to see Kampman in man coverage on Harvin. That really plays to their strength.

[Partial]

I understand why Capers didn't want to blitz the inside guys, but why not send the OLBs through the gut, or twist them, or line two up on the same side, or do something different..

Look at the game. He tried all that. It didn't get there. When he loaded up the left side of the Vikings O line - Favre got the ball to Harvin (covered by Kampman). On a zone blitz, you have to get there. The Packers failed. But it's nice to see Kampman in man coverage on Harvin. That really plays to their strength.

I didn't see the OLBs get sent inside at all, but I also only watched basically the second half.

[Bossman641]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

[Partial]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

The Packers don't do this. The Steelers do.

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?


If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?


Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.
Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.


You misunderstood me; I was noting guys like Breno and Smith are around every year after cuts. They have little value on this roster IMO.

Bottom line is the GM needs to get better players on OL if the current guys are not ready to play and be at least average. It's his job.

If we are willing to admit these guys are just kids and not ready to succeed than IMO that is a shortcoming
Gotcha. But I think the point still stands. There are not very many reliable Tackles in FA who do not have baggage just like the current crop we have. Orlando Pace was a big Tackle signing and he is done as a pass blocker. And the Bear running game has gone to hell in a handbasket as well.

[mraynrand]

Gotcha. But I think the point still stands. There are not very many reliable Tackles in FA who do not have baggage just like the current crop we have. Orlando Pace was a big Tackle signing and he is done as a pass blocker. And the Bear running game has gone to hell in a handbasket as well.

Right. And that's where you have to have the Pro-personnel aspect of the GM in tune with the draft aspect. The Pro half says: TT, there aren't going to be any good FA Tackles avaialble in the next few years. Draft tackles. Then the Draft TT says to the Pro guy: Find me a guard or two to sign. The point: there has to be a better balance. Or Thompson may be gearing up to win in three or four years.

[chain_gang]

I'm curious to what you all think is the biggest problem besides the OL. It's clear that that is without a doubt the biggest problem.

What positions do we urgently need an upgrade at to improve?

What should be addressed in free agency/draft? What players are likely to be available to fill these roles and why would they be a good fit?


I believe two of the biggest are Scat Back and a kick returner, something we've never really been able to address in the draft. Field position wins you games. Enter Noel Devine(if he decides to come out)! I wouldn't mind spending at second round pick on him. Sorry a little to early for draft talk, just easily excited about it.

[red]

I'm curious to what you all think is the biggest problem besides the OL. It's clear that that is without a doubt the biggest problem.

What positions do we urgently need an upgrade at to improve?

What should be addressed in free agency/draft? What players are likely to be available to fill these roles and why would they be a good fit?


I believe two of the biggest are Scat Back and a kick returner, something we've never really been able to address in the draft. Field position wins you games. Enter Noel Devine(if he decides to come out)! I wouldn't mind spending at second round pick on him. Sorry a little to early for draft talk, just easily excited about it.

nope, cj spiller all day

[chain_gang]

nope, cj spiller all day

Nah, Noel would be the Devine intervention, that we so desperately need. Of course I have no issues with Spiller.

[sharpe1027]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

The Packers don't do this. The Steelers do.

I think they did. They were many blitzes on the second half and they almost got a couple of picks because of it (Barnett's tip for one). I also saw Kampman and Mathews coming in a bunch of different bliztes, including crossing up the middle. I credit the Vikings, at least partly, for good blocking.

[Partial]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

The Packers don't do this. The Steelers do.

I think they did. They were many blitzes on the second half and they almost got a couple of picks because of it (Barnett's tip for one). I also saw Kampman and Mathews coming in a bunch of different bliztes, including crossing up the middle. I credit the Vikings, at least partly, for good blocking.

They definitely blitzed more, I agree. I was referencing the Steeler's constant blitzing towards the end of games. They're much more aggressive than we are.

[bobblehead]

Special Teams. The vikings played a short field all day long, while we were backed up most of the time other than when the defense gave us a short field.

That is what this thread is about right?? It seems to have gotten sidetracked from "other than OL" to "only the OL"

Look, when you keep Jarret Bush and 3 FB's and cite special teams as the reason you need to be better....plus, I know Crosby has a ton of leg, but he is just not accurate. I can't recall him making more than one past 50 this year, and last season he missed 2 game winners. For real, time to "clean up special teams"

[Freak Out]

It seemed like the Vikes started at midfield most of the damn game. That just makes it to easy....

I just about shit when I saw Green running back kicks......that's what it's come to?

[sharpe1027]

They definitely blitzed more, I agree. I was referencing the Steeler's constant blitzing towards the end of games. They're much more aggressive than we are.

You're probably right, I didn't see much of the Steeler's game. I would, however, caution against confusing the successfullness of a blitz with the agressivness of the blitz. I find myself often not rembering a blitz unless it got to the QB.

[wist43]

OL of course, both Corners, and defensive front 7 in general.

The need LB's that can bring heat... Kamp is gone next year, and Hawk and Barnett aren't a good fit.

On defense, it's going to take time...

Offense... don't know what to tell ya. That's been TT's and MM's model for "build from within"... and there are some decent players in there; but, given the offensive scheme, and MM's penchant for out smarting himself with formations and play calling - I just don't know what to tell ya - hopefully they come around, coz MM and the the system aren't going anywhere.

Here we are 3 1/2 years after a lot of us came over from JSO... and we're younger, but no closer to winning a championship than when TT took over.

I said it then, and I'll say it now... I just don't see how, or when, TT brings it all together to make a push for a championship. He's got to change his approach, admit he's missed on some high draft picks, admit he has holes in his roster, and seek to fill them thru avenues other than the draft.

[sharpe1027]

Ya know, that game hurt bad. But stepping back a moment, assuming we win next week (it is Tampa Bay), we make it to the half-way point at 5-3, which projects (ya, I'm ignoring who we play..sue me) to 10-6 and just about gurantees a playoff berth.

As frustrating as things have been, this team could really catch fire if their young tackles keep improving (and they are getting better) and Rodgers can feel more comfortable back there.

I feel much more comfortable with our current defense than what we had last year. At least they are vastly improved against the run.

A healthy Finley should help make D-coordinators think twice about blitzing and leaving a LBer or Saftey one-on-one with him.

Call me crazy, but this team can still go either way.

[DonHutson]

Besides the OL, what is the Packers' biggest problem?

Other than the lone gunman, did you have any other critiques of the play Mrs. Lincoln?

[mraynrand]

It seemed like the Vikes started at midfield most of the damn game. That just makes it to easy....

I just about shit when I saw Green running back kicks......that's what it's come to?

two returners injured?

[Pugger]

We have 2 choices right now when it comes to our tackles. Start the kids or start the old guys Cliffy and Tauscher. The old guys might help out right now but if we stick with Barbre and Land and they don't improve we may have to go back to the draft cuz the old guys are just that, getting a little long in the tooth. Unfortunately most decent tackles just aren't made available in FA. Teams cling to these guys because they don't grow on trees.

[rbaloha1]

We have 2 choices right now when it comes to our tackles. Start the kids or start the old guys Cliffy and Tauscher. The old guys might help out right now but if we stick with Barbre and Land and they don't improve we may have to go back to the draft cuz the old guys are just that, getting a little long in the tooth. Unfortunately most decent tackles just aren't made available in FA. Teams cling to these guys because they don't grow on trees.

We need to win now. Play the veterans until they are unable to play anymore.

[MJZiggy]

We have 2 choices right now when it comes to our tackles. Start the kids or start the old guys Cliffy and Tauscher. The old guys might help out right now but if we stick with Barbre and Land and they don't improve we may have to go back to the draft cuz the old guys are just that, getting a little long in the tooth. Unfortunately most decent tackles just aren't made available in FA. Teams cling to these guys because they don't grow on trees.

We need to win now. Play the veterans until they are unable to play anymore.

That could be now. Not that they can't play, but Clifton is always good for a few penalties a game. I don't remember Lang having any and when the poor kid's not going against an all pro he seems to do ok. Use Clifton for support when he struggles and then he doesn't kill himself either. I don't see any reason that it has to be either/or this season, except for continuity's sake.

[Bretsky]

We have 2 choices right now when it comes to our tackles. Start the kids or start the old guys Cliffy and Tauscher. The old guys might help out right now but if we stick with Barbre and Land and they don't improve we may have to go back to the draft cuz the old guys are just that, getting a little long in the tooth. Unfortunately most decent tackles just aren't made available in FA. Teams cling to these guys because they don't grow on trees.

We need to win now. Play the veterans until they are unable to play anymore.

That could be now. Not that they can't play, but Clifton is always good for a few penalties a game. I don't remember Lang having any and when the poor kid's not going against an all pro he seems to do ok. Use Clifton for support when he struggles and then he doesn't kill himself either. I don't see any reason that it has to be either/or this season, except for continuity's sake.


When they are ready I'd be starting Clifton and Tauscher w/o hesitation. I see a lot more long term value in Lang than Barbre

[sharpe1027]

When they are ready I'd be starting Clifton and Tauscher w/o hesitation. I see a lot more long term value in Lang than Barbre

I agree, except I'm not sure Tauscher will ever get there. I think Barbre's made some big strides since his first start, but he started so shitty that the improvement was almost certain.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Bring back Kevin Barry. He just needs one more chance.

[esoxx]

I'm partial to Junius Coston myself.
I don't think he even made a UFL roster.

[Partial]

Not back-up QB. Flynn is a gamer. I think another season or two in QB class and he could be a solid NFL starter, maybe even better than solid because he makes things happen seemingly out of nothing in PS.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/69340727.html

[Guiness]

Not back-up QB. Flynn is a gamer. I think another season or two in QB class and he could be a solid NFL starter, maybe even better than solid because he makes things happen seemingly out of nothing in PS.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/69340727.html

I wonder if we get a 2nd rounder for him, a la Hassalbeck, after a couple season's as a back up?

[Gunakor]

We have 2 choices right now when it comes to our tackles. Start the kids or start the old guys Cliffy and Tauscher. The old guys might help out right now but if we stick with Barbre and Land and they don't improve we may have to go back to the draft cuz the old guys are just that, getting a little long in the tooth. Unfortunately most decent tackles just aren't made available in FA. Teams cling to these guys because they don't grow on trees.

We need to win now. Play the veterans until they are unable to play anymore.

We need to win next year and the year after that too. I'd like to see if the kids are adequate starters long term or if we need to go in another direction. Plus the added game experience could go a long way for guys like Barbre and Lang. I'm thrilled to have guys like Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher as reliable veteran backups, but IMO that's all either of them are anymore. Backups.

Barbre and Lang may or may not be legitimate starters, but we won't know unless they're on the field game in and game out against different players with different skillsets and different tendencies. Just because Lang got whipped by Allen doesn't mean he's not starting quality. It might just mean that Allen is pretty fucking good himself. I'm all for starting Lang at LT and Barbre at RT for the remainder of the season, barring injury, and evaluating where we're at when the season is over. The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

[Smidgeon]

The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

The division is lost only if the Vikings don't collapse (like they've done before) or BF doesn't collapse (like he's done before). Even then, the playoffs aren't lost as a wild card. Not by a long shot.

[MichiganPackerFan]

The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

The division is lost only if the Vikings don't collapse (like they've done before) or BF doesn't collapse (like he's done before). Even then, the playoffs aren't lost as a wild card. Not by a long shot.

Preach it!!

[Smidgeon]

I wonder if we get a 2nd rounder for him, a la Hassalbeck, after a couple season's as a back up?

I thought that was the idea. Have McCarthy groom both Flynn and Brohm (if neither could beat out AR), then ship them off for draft picks. Didn't Wolf do that several times with BF's backup QBs? Brunell, Detmer, Brooks, Hassellback...

[MJZiggy]

The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

The division is lost only if the Vikings don't collapse (like they've done before) or BF doesn't collapse (like he's done before). Even then, the playoffs aren't lost as a wild card. Not by a long shot.

Preach it!!

AMEN!!!

[SnakeLH2006]

Coaching. McCarthy is a pussy.

[Gunakor]

The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

The division is lost only if the Vikings don't collapse (like they've done before) or BF doesn't collapse (like he's done before). Even then, the playoffs aren't lost as a wild card. Not by a long shot.

The Wild Card is attainable even with the kids playing. You don't take their reps away and give them to a couple of has beens and expect the team to magically get better. Tauscher hasn't played a down in almost a year. Clifton has been injured and inactive twice already this season and it's not quite half over. They aren't going to be any better than Lang or Barbre, but Lang and Barbre might just become better themselves with regular PT. Like I said, Cliffy and Tausch are very nice veteran backups and I'm glad to have them. But neither should be starting right now IMO.

[Bretsky]

The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

The division is lost only if the Vikings don't collapse (like they've done before) or BF doesn't collapse (like he's done before). Even then, the playoffs aren't lost as a wild card. Not by a long shot.

The Wild Card is attainable even with the kids playing. You don't take their reps away and give them to a couple of has beens and expect the team to magically get better. Tauscher hasn't played a down in almost a year. Clifton has been injured and inactive twice already this season and it's not quite half over. They aren't going to be any better than Lang or Barbre, but Lang and Barbre might just become better themselves with regular PT. Like I said, Cliffy and Tausch are very nice veteran backups and I'm glad to have them. But neither should be starting right now IMO.


agree to completely disagree. Barbe is not good enough. Lang is not ready. The time to win is now. Start the two best players and I'm sure that is what the coaches are judging.

[Scott Campbell]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

The division is lost only if the Vikings don't collapse (like they've done before) or BF doesn't collapse (like he's done before). Even then, the playoffs aren't lost as a wild card. Not by a long shot.

The Wild Card is attainable even with the kids playing. You don't take their reps away and give them to a couple of has beens and expect the team to magically get better. Tauscher hasn't played a down in almost a year. Clifton has been injured and inactive twice already this season and it's not quite half over. They aren't going to be any better than Lang or Barbre, but Lang and Barbre might just become better themselves with regular PT. Like I said, Cliffy and Tausch are very nice veteran backups and I'm glad to have them. But neither should be starting right now IMO.


agree to completely disagree. Barbe is not good enough. Lang is not ready. The time to win is now. Start the two best players and I'm sure that is what the coaches are judging.

Let's hope the coaching staff isn't having the same argument you two are having or the team will fall apart completely and nose dive. Whatever the decision, stick to it and stop the damn musical chairs. Everything I've read about offensive lines is that they need to be in sync, cohesive, etc.etc. Can't accomplish that with different guys playing different positions each week.

[Bretsky]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

BEATING TAMPA BAY ??

We're already had two bye weeks. This is the third

The Lions were a bye; they are a sad excuse for a pro team
The Rams were a bye; they are a sad excuse for a pro team
Tampa Bay may be worse than both of them

We win this week regardless of which roster player starts on the OL

Right now I think the coaches are figuring out who gets us the furthest this year and it sounds like that is Tausch and Cliffy

[Scott Campbell]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

BEATING TAMPA BAY ??




Did you watch the first half Sunday?

[Fritz]

That's like asking someone if he's a masochist.

[Brandon494]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

BEATING TAMPA BAY ??




Did you watch the first half Sunday?

Have you watched TB all season?

Not to mention their rookie QB is making his first career start, I'm sure Capers will be dialing up some nice blitz packages. Look for Clay Matthews to have a big game.

[Scott Campbell]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

BEATING TAMPA BAY ??




Did you watch the first half Sunday?

Have you watched TB all season?

Not to mention their rookie QB is making his first career start, I'm sure Capers will be dialing up some nice blitz packages. Look for Clay Matthews to have a big game.


I expect we'll win. But our first half last Sunday is a reminder of how bad were capable of playing. There are no gimmees for this Packer squad.

[Brandon494]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

BEATING TAMPA BAY ??




Did you watch the first half Sunday?

Have you watched TB all season?

Not to mention their rookie QB is making his first career start, I'm sure Capers will be dialing up some nice blitz packages. Look for Clay Matthews to have a big game.


I expect we'll win. But our first half last Sunday is a reminder of how bad were capable of playing. There are no gimmees for this Packer squad.

I understand, but the game last week was not a ordinary regular season game. After they settled down they showed us how good they can be in the 2nd half.

[denverYooper]

I understand, but the game last week was not a ordinary regular season game. After they settled down they showed us how good they can be in the 2nd half.

This gets at one of our main problems: we are too tight in big games. Pretty vague statement, for sure, but they just can't seem to come into a big game with knives out. Last week, for instance, Rodgers came out wound up as all hell -- he looked tense, overthrew some easy throws, etc. We start out on a nice drive to their 40, then an overthrow on a short pass, a 7 yard fumble, and an incompletion on 3rd and 17 and we exchange a couple of series.

2 series later, we grab a fumble at the Vikings 21, get a nice 7 yard gain and, a couple of tense plays later, we're kicking a figgie.

Then the Vikings get a monster runback and our D matches them with a stop deep in our territory. Looks good right? DAMN, killer penalty. 7-3 instead of 3-3, 7-3, 10-3, 14-3... We had a couple of chance to jump on 'em early.

The first half went just about as well after that. The O just seemed shocked for a bit after having 2 early chances to go up much bigger than 3-0.

It wasn't until we were down 24-6 in the second half that they started rolling a bit. I don't get it. And it seems like this isn't a new thing. In most big games against tough opponents there seem to be similar breakdowns.

So I don't know what it is, really that is a problem. Most teams have their share of problems. Pittsburgh's offensive line was a problem for them for quite some time. They found ways to win. The Patriots find ways to win. I think we're a talented team that is sitting in the middle of the pack because for whatever reason, we seem to be good at doing just enough to lose the tough games.

[Bretsky]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

BEATING TAMPA BAY ??




Did you watch the first half Sunday?

Have you watched TB all season?

Not to mention their rookie QB is making his first career start, I'm sure Capers will be dialing up some nice blitz packages. Look for Clay Matthews to have a big game.


I expect we'll win. But our first half last Sunday is a reminder of how bad were capable of playing. There are no gimmees for this Packer squad.


Have to remember we were playing a team whose GM built them VERY well via drafts, trades, and free agency "inside the trenches". QB and talent positions aside, they are just better and showed it. We have to bring our A game for four quarters to beat the Vikes

We'd have went into halftime with a lead even with that level of play against the Rams, Lions, or Bucs.

[Guiness]

The division is all but lost at this point anyway. Let the kids play.

The division is lost only if the Vikings don't collapse (like they've done before) or BF doesn't collapse (like he's done before). Even then, the playoffs aren't lost as a wild card. Not by a long shot.

The Wild Card is attainable even with the kids playing. You don't take their reps away and give them to a couple of has beens and expect the team to magically get better. Tauscher hasn't played a down in almost a year. Clifton has been injured and inactive twice already this season and it's not quite half over. They aren't going to be any better than Lang or Barbre, but Lang and Barbre might just become better themselves with regular PT. Like I said, Cliffy and Tausch are very nice veteran backups and I'm glad to have them. But neither should be starting right now IMO.

Do you know how many games Cliffy has missed in the past 4 years? I suspect you don't.

[MJZiggy]

That's like asking someone if he's a masochist.

Are you a masochist?

[esoxx]

We aren't playing well enough to be thinking playoffs. This team needs to concentrate on getting better and beating Tampa.

BEATING TAMPA BAY ??

We're already had two bye weeks. This is the third

The Lions were a bye; they are a sad excuse for a pro team
The Rams were a bye; they are a sad excuse for a pro team
Tampa Bay may be worse than both of them

We win this week regardless of which roster player starts on the OL

Right now I think the coaches are figuring out who gets us the furthest this year and it sounds like that is Tausch and Cliffy

Actually, this is the fourth bye week. You forgot to mention the Browns. I actually believe they are the worst of the dregs mentioned above.

But really, when a team is as bad as the Lions, Rams, Browns, and Bucs, that's pretty much like comparing what is more odious, dog crap, cat poop, bird shit, or rhino dung. They all stink.

[red]

coaching, general managing, etc...