Pickett Problem

[Partial]

Ryan Pickett has been the Packers best defensive player this year in the opinion of some of the leading journalists for JSO, GBPG. He was recently called the defensive MVP in some article (I don't remember which one of the top of my head, but I know I posted it).

That said, Pickett's contract is up after this year.

Raji has shown this year that he is not a very good end, but also isn't the run stuffer to play NT yet. However, it's clear that Raji was drafted to be the future, and Pickett isn't too old so I would think he'll want a 3-4 year deal at least.

With that said, what do they do? Do they let Pickett walk (substraction by subtraction) and play Raji (baptism by fire), or do they keep the better player and let Raji sit?

I made this argument around draft time and it was largely ignored. Now that we see that Pickett is a very capable NT who not only does his job, but also keeps his mouth shut about it (something some of our other linemen cannot seem to grasp), what should we do?

Without a doubt, I would keep Pickett because there is no sense in letting a good player walk for an unknown in Raji. I'm not completely sold on Raji yet obviously, but I'm hopeful he gets it together. That said, I think Pickett will be a key player in the equation going forward for this team.

[g4orce]

can never have too many good players

[Waldo]

I made th same anti Raji argument around draft time until I realized.

For the first half of his career, Raji is better off as a backup in 3-4 sets and a starter in 2-4, the absolute opposite of Pickett.

You couldn't ask for a better heavy 2-4 set lineman than Raji physically.

In other words, they can coexist on the same roster, and in fact it is probably the best route. Pickett is a darn good NT, but blows pass rushing. Raji, if he reaches his potential, would be a stud interior rusher. Kind of a waste to make a guy like that a situational run stuffer like Pickett is. But Raji is a fine backup to Pickett.

[chain_gang]

Unfortunately, I think this is Pickett's last season with the team. It's almost the same as when we drafted Harrell to replace Corey Williams the season before(I'm not calling Raji a bust at all, still needs time). I don't seem Thompson re-signing him, since he invested a lot of money in Raji. Pickett seems to have really thrived in this defense and I'd like to see him back, but he also knows he's probably playing for one last big payday, and I don't see him getting that from Green Bay.

On a side note, isn't it scary to think Kampy's in the last year of his contract too. Imagine if Green Bay doesn't franchise him, and Minny picks him up to start opposite of Jared Allen, that would be the most feared Dline in football. Damn, can't let that happen!

[rbaloha1]

Pickett is playing well and should be resigned at a good price.

[Waldo]

Unfortunately, I think this is Pickett's last season with the team. It's almost the same as when we drafted Harrell to replace Corey Williams the season before(I'm not calling Raji a bust at all, still needs time). I don't seem Thompson re-signing him, since he invested a lot of money in Raji. Pickett seems to have really thrived in this defense and I'd like to see him back, but he also knows he's probably playing for one last big payday, and I don't see him getting that from Green Bay.

On a side note, isn't it scary to think Kampy's in the last year of his contract too. Imagine if Green Bay doesn't franchise him, and Minny picks him up to start opposite of Jared Allen, that would be the most feared Dline in football. Damn, can't let that happen!

Honestly....

Kamp would be a downgrade from Ray Edwards.

Sorry. He isn't that good.

[g4orce]

Honestly....

Kamp would be a downgrade from Ray Edwards.

Sorry. He isn't that good.



Serious? I mean I know the guys getting up there in age, well sort of. But Kampy, when in a 4-3 defense was one of the best pass rushers-run stoppers in the league. How wouldnt he benefit from playing along side the William's and man-beast, Jared Allen? I just don't see it.

[sharpe1027]

Honestly....

Kamp would be a downgrade from Ray Edwards.

Sorry. He isn't that good.



Serious? I mean I know the guys getting up there in age, well sort of. But Kampy, when in a 4-3 defense was one of the best pass rushers-run stoppers in the league. How wouldnt he benefit from playing along side the William's and man-beast, Jared Allen? I just don't see it.

Two years ago, I would have agreed with you g4orce, but the past two years Kampman's pass-rush production has gone downhill. The second half of last year he was a ghost, you weren't quite sure he was there unless you really looked for him. His pass rush has not been any better this year.

Sure he would benefit from other pass-rushers, but I wouldn't expect him to regain his old form just like that.

[sharpe1027]

Resign him if you can. IMO, there is no real tension between keeping both him and Raji. The question will be whether his price tag is just too damn much or not.

[Waldo]

Honestly....

Kamp would be a downgrade from Ray Edwards.

Sorry. He isn't that good.



Serious? I mean I know the guys getting up there in age, well sort of. But Kampy, when in a 4-3 defense was one of the best pass rushers-run stoppers in the league. How wouldnt he benefit from playing along side the William's and man-beast, Jared Allen? I just don't see it.

When Kamp saw his name high in the sack #'s, his run stopping ability went in the toilet. He started playing differently, and has turned into the biggest run liability in our front 7 (he was last year, too).

Kamp will be 30 this year. That is typically the end for those that aren't freaks of nature, rushing the passer.

Ray Edwards is a good young player on the rise. He is physically superior to Kamp, and is about like Kamp was 5 years ago IMO.

Kamp has never been a clutch down rusher. Nor really good anyway, since he plays over the less good OT. He needs that extra time the secondary gave him, and the QB flusher on the other side, to really be effective. The bulk of Kamp's career sacks are coverage sacks.

KGB was a good pass rusher. He didn't need coverage, teamwork etc. He could smoke the T and get the QB in his drop. LOL @ Kamp ever doing that.

[chain_gang]

Honestly....

Kamp would be a downgrade from Ray Edwards.

Sorry. He isn't that good.


Sorry I completely disagree. Kampman is head and shoulders above Edwards at rushing the passer, especially in a 4-3 defense where Jared Allen would receive way more attention. Yes he's getting up there in age, but he is just a season removed from 9.5 sacks where there was no other pass rushing option on their team. Edwards has not had a year over 5 sacks, granted he's only 24, but this season Edwards has 3.5 sacks in what should be his breakout year, and Kampman who is in a completely new defense where he drops into coverage more often than Edwards still has 2.5, not impressive I know, but I think for 2-3 years Kampman will still be more effective than Edwards and the thought of him lining up opposite of Allen, would be downright scary.

[Guiness]

I see no problem or conflict in keeping them both.

DT/NT gets banged up a lot, and depth at that position is essential, because you can almost count on an injury. And it's a lot to ask those guys to play much more than 40% or so of the snaps.

As others have said in this thread, Pickett in the base defense, and Raji in nickel (which we are playing almost half the time anyways) works very well.

[mraynrand]

Packers need to resign Pickett and then switch to the 4-3. A switch in scheme will solve their defensive woes.

[g4orce]

Packers need to resign Pickett and then switch to the 4-3. A switch in scheme will solve their defensive woes.

And then in another year, when that doesn't work, we can fire the D coordinator and switch schemes again and see if that works.

[DonHutson]

Packers need to resign Pickett and then switch to the 4-3. A switch in scheme will solve their defensive woes.

Ironically, the players they drafted to run the 3-4 would have given them one hell of a great 4-3 front seven:

DL: Kampman/Raji/Pickett/Jenkins

LB: Matthews/Barnett/Hawk

Raji will be far better than he's shown so far, but I'd love to see Pickett return anyway.

[pbmax]

Honestly....

Kamp would be a downgrade from Ray Edwards.

Sorry. He isn't that good.



Serious? I mean I know the guys getting up there in age, well sort of. But Kampy, when in a 4-3 defense was one of the best pass rushers-run stoppers in the league. How wouldnt he benefit from playing along side the William's and man-beast, Jared Allen? I just don't see it.
He has had struggles in run stopping at end. I am not sure what happened, but he wasn't the same pass rusher last year. And they were not double-teaming him.

[pbmax]

Packers need to resign Pickett and then switch to the 4-3. A switch in scheme will solve their defensive woes.
And aggressive. Don't forget aggressive. Or maybe this time we should try passive?

[Brandon494]

Packers need to resign Pickett and then switch to the 4-3. A switch in scheme will solve their defensive woes.

Ironically, the players they drafted to run the 3-4 would have given them one hell of a great 4-3 front seven:

DL: Kampman/Raji/Pickett/Jenkins

LB: Matthews/Barnett/Hawk

Raji will be far better than he's shown so far, but I'd love to see Pickett return anyway.

I agree, I think we would be better if Greg Williams came here instead. Not saying he is a better defensive coach than Capers but atleast the defense wouldn't have had to learn a new scheme. We are going to have a lot of ups and downs this season on defense. Hopefully the players will stop bitching and buy into what Capers is trying to do. Its going to take some time for them to get comfortable with this new scheme. Atleast the run defense has looked pretty solid this year.

[Smidgeon]

I agree, I think we would be better if Greg Williams came here instead. Not saying he is a better defensive coach than Capers but atleast the defense wouldn't have had to learn a new scheme.

What about the claim that M3 determined the team was going to 3-4 before he hired Capers (I think either JSO or GBPG had an article on that)? Both Capers' and Williams' fortes are their ability to adapt to their players. Williams bases it out of a 4-3 (but I think can coach 3-4), and Capers can coach everything (although is known for the 3-4).

[rbaloha1]

I agree, I think we would be better if Greg Williams came here instead. Not saying he is a better defensive coach than Capers but atleast the defense wouldn't have had to learn a new scheme.

What about the claim that M3 determined the team was going to 3-4 before he hired Capers (I think either JSO or GBPG had an article on that)? Both Capers' and Williams' fortes are their ability to adapt to their players. Williams bases it out of a 4-3 (but I think can coach 3-4), and Capers can coach everything (although is known for the 3-4).

Ditto. Wanted Williams as well. Transition would not have been as great plus the Packers are blessed with good 4-3 players.

Any one impressed with Sharper?

[MJZiggy]

By that point, I was just glad he hired someone I'd actually heard of.

[Brando19]

Pickett needs to remain a Packer...no matter what scheme we're running. Solid player.

[pbmax]

I agree, I think we would be better if Greg Williams came here instead. Not saying he is a better defensive coach than Capers but atleast the defense wouldn't have had to learn a new scheme.

What about the claim that M3 determined the team was going to 3-4 before he hired Capers (I think either JSO or GBPG had an article on that)? Both Capers' and Williams' fortes are their ability to adapt to their players. Williams bases it out of a 4-3 (but I think can coach 3-4), and Capers can coach everything (although is known for the 3-4).

Ditto. Wanted Williams as well. Transition would not have been as great plus the Packers are blessed with good 4-3 players.

Any one impressed with Sharper?
Those good 4-3 players were a bottom third defense last year. You need to have all three; sound scheme, coaching and players. Capers and the scheme have made the run defense good. But its the lack of talent rushing the QB that is killing them now.

[rbaloha1]

Pickett needs to remain a Packer...no matter what scheme we're running. Solid player.

Ditto. Appears a good locker room guy.