View Full Version : Rodgers' Pocket Sense Deteriorating?
I fear it's possible.
Remember last year's preseason, when he got destroyed by San Francisco? After that game, he learned not to hold on to the ball and focused on getting it out quickly. This was compensation for a crappy o-line.
This year's o-line is considerably worse. At first, it seemed as though Rodgers/McCarthy was going to adapt to it and go back to last year's approach. But the line is so bad that Rodgers has had to brace for hits IMMEDIATELY after the snap.
This, in my opinion, has ruined his confidence and sense of timing. Now he seems far more confused than I've ever seen him. It's like he has no trust in anything - that the line will hold up, that he'll have enough time to find the open receiver, and that he can make a good throw given the duress he's been under.
I feared this for him. David Carr wasn't a bad quarterback. It more turned out that Carr was hit so much that he'd completely lost his internal clock. If we don't figure out what to do, we might lose Rodgers to the broken clock.
And for those of you that say he has the time to throw, it doesn't tell the whole story. From a strictly "seconds after the snap" standpoint, there might theoretically be enough time to throw. But how soon after the snap is the pocket collapsing in Rodgers' face?
There has been no pocket integrity whatsoever. I watch other teams create a nice, clean, parabola-shaped pocket, whereas for Rodgers, there's this jumbled, caved-in mess. It is within this mess that people say, "Oh, 4 seconds? That's enough time to get rid of it." But the truth is that as soon as he gets the snap, he's ALREADY trying to figure out how to escape.
And that's not healthy for a developing quarterback.
packerbacker1234
11-08-2009, 05:12 PM
It does feel like he was better at this last year then now.
He had the ball in his hands to win the game, and he just stood there like a statue. He had been scrambling earlier in the day to let things develop. Now, with the game on the line, he dropped back and just stood there. Took too long to make a decisions, and in the end got sacked and threw another int.
A lot of the sacks today were mostly on AR, save the almost safety sack. Many of the sakcs he had upwords of 5+ seconds to make a decision... and he didn't.
Before tauscher went down the line was actually solid save college getting raped. So, AR... I know I can say it's a bad game, but it just epitomized the issue he has had all year. His awareness is worse, and with the game on the line, that is when it's ok to run around and make shit happen.
Watching that made me Miss #4. As crazy as Favre was, at least he tried to make something happen. Rodgers just stood there.
imscott72
11-08-2009, 05:14 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
Brohm
11-08-2009, 05:15 PM
We are watching Rodgers incremental destruction before our eyes. I do not believe he is being put in a position to succeed, from the OL play to the play-calling.
g4orce
11-08-2009, 05:16 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
On some of those plays, there actually was a pocket but then he wouldnt step up into it. He would take a 5-7 step drop and just stand there.....well thats precisly where the defensive ends are rushing towards, then he gets hit just as he hurries his throw instead of stepping up and maybe sliding to on side or another.
imscott72
11-08-2009, 05:20 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
Is this Patler's 2nd account?? :roll:
imscott72
11-08-2009, 05:21 PM
On some of those plays, there actually was a pocket but then he wouldnt step up into it. He would take a 5-7 step drop and just stand there.....well thats precisly where the defensive ends are rushing towards, then he gets hit just as he hurries his throw instead of stepping up and maybe sliding to on side or another.
I'm not saying Aaron's hasn't made mistakes, because he has. But I really do think the poor OL play has changed the way he operates for obvious reasons. His first thought when he drops back isn't his reads, it's where's the pressure coming from.
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
His garbage line has hindered his development. His internal clock seems broken, which has led to his inconsistent play.
If they don't put him in a position to succeed, he'll only regress further.
So technically, yeah, he is to blame for today's meltdown, but it was exacerbated by the slow beatdown of his pocket presence resulting from an embarrassingly bad line.
g4orce
11-08-2009, 05:23 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
Is this Patler's 2nd account?? :roll:
I'm not saying the entire game was on him. But it has to be pointed out that he fails with the game on the line, a lot. We used to have a guy that played like a lion with the game on the line, he wasnt good enough for us and now we are stuck with a guy that plays like a kitten with the chips down.
lod01
11-08-2009, 05:23 PM
He holds the ball way too long. Everyone of you was screaming 'get rid of it', repeatedly today. Don't say you weren't.
When a guy with superior WR's is outplayed by a rookie with guys that probalby couldn't make the Packers roster, something is very wrong.
What is this guy doing and that has nothing to do with the pocket althought the Ol needs upgraded. The pocket looks like shit because he holds it too long
g4orce
11-08-2009, 05:25 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
His garbage line has hindered his development. His internal clock seems broken, which has led to his inconsistent play.
If they don't put him in a position to succeed, he'll only regress further.
So technically, yeah, he is to blame for today's meltdown, but it was exacerbated by the slow beatdown of his pocket presence resulting from an embarrassingly bad line.
I agree with you. But sometimes its either you have it or you dont. Sometimes its really that simple. Would an amazing Oline help him? Of course it would, it would help any QB there is. But something has to be said about how he plays when we need him the most. Its getting very old, and fast.
He holds the ball way too long. Everyone of you was screaming 'get rid of it', repeatedly today. Don't say you weren't.
When a guy with superior WR's is outplayed by a rookie with guys that probalby couldn't make the Packers roster, something is very wrong.
What is this guy doing and that has nothing to do with the pocket althought the Ol needs upgraded. The pocket looks like shit because he holds it too long
He never used to hold it this long. So something must have happened, no?
The line has beaten the pocket sense out of him.
MJZiggy
11-08-2009, 05:26 PM
I've been worried about Carr Syndrome all season. This is unacceptable for an NFL quarterback to take this kind of a beating all year.
imscott72
11-08-2009, 05:27 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
Is this Patler's 2nd account?? :roll:
We used to have a guy that played like a lion with the game on the line, he wasnt good enough for us and now we are stuck with a guy that plays like a kitten with the chips down.
So that gutty rush TD meant nothing?
digitaldean
11-08-2009, 05:27 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
OK, so what's your realistic solution to this?
I blame Rodgers for the first pick, that was clearly a bonehead throw and a momentum changer. The second pick is on Jennings.
He is a good QB. I believe that he is showing the tendencies of what Carr was going through in Houston.
Rodgers is the LEAST of this team's problems. The O-Line, special teams and the defensive inconsistencies are the top 3 items that need to be addressed. All this falls on MM and TT.
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
His garbage line has hindered his development. His internal clock seems broken, which has led to his inconsistent play.
If they don't put him in a position to succeed, he'll only regress further.
So technically, yeah, he is to blame for today's meltdown, but it was exacerbated by the slow beatdown of his pocket presence resulting from an embarrassingly bad line.
I agree with you. But sometimes its either you have it or you dont. Sometimes its really that simple. Would an amazing Oline help him? Of course it would, it would help any QB there is. But something has to be said about how he plays when we need him the most. Its getting very old, and fast.
He's not Favre. He never was and never will be. Favre was an "instincts" guy. Rodgers is more of a technician, and technicians need time and to be put in situations to learn live-game situations.
But his learning environment must be one that helps him, not hurts him. And this is hurting him.
g4orce
11-08-2009, 05:30 PM
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
His garbage line has hindered his development. His internal clock seems broken, which has led to his inconsistent play.
If they don't put him in a position to succeed, he'll only regress further.
So technically, yeah, he is to blame for today's meltdown, but it was exacerbated by the slow beatdown of his pocket presence resulting from an embarrassingly bad line.
I agree with you. But sometimes its either you have it or you dont. Sometimes its really that simple. Would an amazing Oline help him? Of course it would, it would help any QB there is. But something has to be said about how he plays when we need him the most. Its getting very old, and fast.
He's not Favre. He never was and never will be. Favre was an "instincts" guy. Rodgers is more of a technician, and technicians need time and to be put in situations to learn live-game situations.
But his learning environment must be one that helps him, not hurts him. And this is hurting him.
Ill agree with you there. I just wonder how long it takes to learn? I mean it is only his 2nd year playing, but its also year 5 which should have helped him too.
Can you blame him? He's literally running for his life on every play. Would you feel comfortable taking a 5 step drop behind that line? He's always looking over his shoulder. He's banged up and wondering who's going to hit him next. This isn't his fault.
oh mylanta! Really? None of this is his fault? The dude had the ball in his hands TWICE in this game and could have driven HIS team down the field for a win or hell, even a tie and he FAILED TO DO SO. Oh by the way, the same shit happened one year ago in Tampa. He fails with the game on the line. He plays more like a kitten when you need the heart of a lion when you need him the most.
His garbage line has hindered his development. His internal clock seems broken, which has led to his inconsistent play.
If they don't put him in a position to succeed, he'll only regress further.
So technically, yeah, he is to blame for today's meltdown, but it was exacerbated by the slow beatdown of his pocket presence resulting from an embarrassingly bad line.
I agree with you. But sometimes its either you have it or you dont. Sometimes its really that simple. Would an amazing Oline help him? Of course it would, it would help any QB there is. But something has to be said about how he plays when we need him the most. Its getting very old, and fast.
He's not Favre. He never was and never will be. Favre was an "instincts" guy. Rodgers is more of a technician, and technicians need time and to be put in situations to learn live-game situations.
But his learning environment must be one that helps him, not hurts him. And this is hurting him.
Ill agree with you there. I just wonder how long it takes to learn? I mean it is only his 2nd year playing, but its also year 5 which should have helped him too.
I can read about poker for years, but I'll never get good at it unless I'm in live situations.
It takes a certain gift to have the moxie to succeed immediately. Favre was a once-in-a-generation talent, and even he was in danger of losing his job.
Rodgers can become Drew Brees-like (a similar player). But this is only if his clock doesn't get ruined permanently.
This is vital. I hope the Packers realize the seriousness of this.
green_bowl_packer
11-08-2009, 05:45 PM
He holds the ball way too long. Everyone of you was screaming 'get rid of it', repeatedly today. Don't say you weren't.
When a guy with superior WR's is outplayed by a rookie with guys that probalby couldn't make the Packers roster, something is very wrong.
What is this guy doing and that has nothing to do with the pocket althought the Ol needs upgraded. The pocket looks like shit because he holds it too long
A recent article stated "ARod holds balls longer than Al Bundy"
Sparkey
11-08-2009, 07:28 PM
They said on radio that Rodgers played with metal orthopedics supports in each shoe to protect his dislocated toe and arch in the other foot. Supposedly, with those devices, he is unable to rock forward and plant when he throws. Less zip on the ball and more than likely, they will float a bit at times.
I've been worried about Carr Syndrome all season. This is unacceptable for an NFL quarterback to take this kind of a beating all year.
I like this term, it is exactly what is happening to him.
Coin that phrase!
Noodle
11-08-2009, 07:54 PM
Hard to argue with th87's premise. He looks like he knows he's going to get whacked, and often, he's right. Hard for him to step forward in to a pocket that is usually collapsing due to interior push.
On the "holds it too long" thing, this may be true, but you can't really say this unless you know how the play was designed or what the receivers were doing. I find it frustrating that you rarely get a camera angle showing what he saw or what receivers were or were no open.
But no denying he's looking to escape as soon as he sets. His internal clock is shot.
rbaloha1
11-08-2009, 08:07 PM
AR clearly holds the ball too long. Before the Tampa game 12 out of 31 sacks were due to AR. Unsure of today's game but suspect AR is to blame for many of the sacks.
AR is not savvy like Favre in the pocket. Release is also slower and is unable to go thru progressions quickly as well.
Bottom-line does not have #4 instincts. So far mainly a stats guy unable to lead winning drives and win a meaningful game.
Brandon494
11-08-2009, 08:26 PM
AR clearly holds the ball too long. Before the Tampa game 12 out of 31 sacks were due to AR. Unsure of today's game but suspect AR is to blame for many of the sacks.
AR is not savvy like Favre in the pocket. Release is also slower and is unable to go thru progressions quickly as well.
Bottom-line does not have #4 instincts. So far mainly a stats guy unable to lead winning drives and win a meaningful game.
Not many QBs do have #4 instincts. :roll:
AR does get greedy at times and holds onto the ball looking for the big play. The kid is only 25 and does not even have 2 years starting experience yet. Also doesnt help him that his O-line is horrible.
rbaloha1
11-08-2009, 08:36 PM
AR clearly holds the ball too long. Before the Tampa game 12 out of 31 sacks were due to AR. Unsure of today's game but suspect AR is to blame for many of the sacks.
AR is not savvy like Favre in the pocket. Release is also slower and is unable to go thru progressions quickly as well.
Bottom-line does not have #4 instincts. So far mainly a stats guy unable to lead winning drives and win a meaningful game.
Not many QBs do have #4 instincts. :roll:
AR does get greedy at times and holds onto the ball looking for the big play. The kid is only 25 and does not even have 2 years starting experience yet. Also doesnt help him that his O-line is horrible.
True. The only reason it is mentioned the organization selected #12 over #4. Also expect more instincts since he studied #4 for 3 seasons.
pbmax
11-08-2009, 09:35 PM
#4 didn't have #4's instincts until 1995. It took him 2 1/2 years of starting to figure out how to survive. He wasn't throwing up after hits because his timing was good in the pocket.
Remember when fans cheered his first toss OOB on purpose? That was 1994 I believe. Prior to him learning this lesson, he ran around like Tarkenton until he could throw it. Difference was that he was a truck compared to Trakenton and Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.
Rodgers is still learning what it takes to survive and succeed. You can't learn that on the bench.
pbmax
11-08-2009, 09:37 PM
Bottom-line does not have #4 instincts. So far mainly a stats guy unable to lead winning drives and win a meaningful game.
Please look up how many game winning drives Favre led in his first three years (92-partial.93.94) as a starter. We can compare with Rodgers at the end of next season and see where it stands.
3irty1
11-08-2009, 09:44 PM
I don't think he has lost it at least not like Carr. Carr was ruined because he was physically dominated until he couldn't help but be afraid. Rodgers doesn't fear the pass rush he just ignores it trying to make a play. If he had average NFL protection I think this issue would disappear.
mraynrand
11-08-2009, 09:55 PM
I don't think he has lost it at least not like Carr. Carr was ruined because he was physically dominated until he couldn't help but be afraid. Rodgers doesn't fear the pass rush he just ignores it trying to make a play. If he had average NFL protection I think this issue would disappear.
I dunno. Mebbe if I mixed it up and diddnt have drives of all runs den drives of all 30 yard padderns - ya no, sorda mix it up with checkdowns andda few more screens ta take da pressr ofda QB A BIT.
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Workedem.jpg
I don't think he has lost it at least not like Carr. Carr was ruined because he was physically dominated until he couldn't help but be afraid. Rodgers doesn't fear the pass rush he just ignores it trying to make a play. If he had average NFL protection I think this issue would disappear.
I dunno. Mebbe if I mixed it up and diddnt have drives of all runs den drives of all 30 yard padderns - ya no, sorda mix it up with checkdowns andda few more screens ta take da pressr ofda QB A BIT.
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Workedem.jpg
LOL :lol:
Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.
.
Is this a fact or just your opinion?
Brandon494
11-08-2009, 11:11 PM
Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.
.
Is this a fact or just your opinion?
fact
Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.
.
Is this a fact or just your opinion?
Be honest - do you ever remember guys coming after Favre this quickly?
But in any case, Favre's instincts are better than Rodgers'. He was born with it. Rodgers has to learn it. And as a result, Rodgers needs an environment that is conducive to learning.
And there seems to be some mental block with him - he'll be able to march the team back to ALMOST a win, but some self-sabotage kicks in right as he's on the verge of a victory. It's really weird.
Check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyJ4XMoQAwU
USC-Cal, 2004. Cal has the ball, 1st down at the USC 9, ready to score the winning TD. Rodgers almost gets it done, but falls just short. It always seems that he's on the verge of success, but can't get that extra bit. I wonder what it is.
packerbacker1234
11-08-2009, 11:29 PM
Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.
.
Is this a fact or just your opinion?
fact
Last year Rodgers had the exact same OL Favre had in 2007. This year, this game, with tausch back, the only change on the OL from what favre had was Sitton over Spitz at G.
And you know what, it wasn't SItton that was the problem. Yes College, I am looking at your shitty ass.
Worse then any favre played behind? He had virtually the same line in 07. For how SUPERIOR the vikings line is, Favre is getting spanked the most since 1999. I mean, favre is getting sacked and hammered. The only reason he isn't sacked as much as AR is because of pocket awareness.
Brohm
11-08-2009, 11:52 PM
The playcalling has changed with Farve gone and MM thinks this team is better than it is (or thought after this game). Can't run a deep ball Offense with the line we have. This is no longer a WCO. Slant/YAC are gone, now it's just sack/yak.
pbmax
11-09-2009, 12:34 AM
Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.
.
Is this a fact or just your opinion?
Of course it is my opinion. I know of no easily obtainable stat to prove to you that Favre's early career lines were better. But while they couldn't run block for beans at times, they could pass block better than the current line while sleeping.
In 92 he had
LT Ken Ruettgers (1st round)
LG Frank Winters (10th)
LG Rich Moran (3rd)
C James Campen (undrafted I think)
RG Ron Hallstrom (1st)
RT Tootie Robbins (4th)
Ruettgers (30 bum knee) and Hallstrom (34) were high draft picks getting up in years. Robbins was a FA stop gap, but a stop gap that wasn't a turnstile. Frankie was just nasty but not really a guard. He stepped in when Moran got hurt. Robbins was not exactly a cap casualty yet, but his type was easier to get prior to teams figuring out the cap. But he was close to done. It took Wolf until Aaron Taylor to finally get a top notch guard. Then being Wolf he found Timmerman under a rock in Brookings SD in 1995. Please forgive errors of my own causing in this brief and un-annotated Packer History. the Browns did not leave in 1994, so I was only paying partial attention to the Packers at this time.
In 93,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Doug Widell (2)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
RG Harry Galbreath (8th)
RT Tootie Robbins
RT Joe Sims (11th)
Campen's career has ended due to injury and Winters steps in after filling in for guard. Widell is a Bronco high draft pick that simply performed well enough to be replaced the next year after playing in 9 games. Sims briefly made people think we had a RT of the future, but he never got it all figured out. Glabreath was this year's cagey vet signing from the Dolphins I think. But physically, he was about done. He could not be fooled though, so opponents had to beat him physically, which gave everyone a chance. This might have been Favre's most brutal year until 4-12.
In 94, the year he figures it out after nearly being replaced by Mark Brunell,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Guy McIntyre (3rd)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
C Jamie Dukes (undrafted former starter for Atlanta)
RG Harry Galbreath
RT Joe Sims
McIntyre is this year's cagey vet signing and he is even closer to the end than Galbreath who by now looks like a FA steal. But McIntyre is not so lucky and lasts one year. Frankie must have had to cover for Guy as Dukes got 6 starts at center. I remember nothing about him. Sims lasts one year but is inconsistent and gets Wally Pipp'd by Dotson the next year. McIntyre gets replaced by Aaron Taylor and Ruettgers is nearly at the end. But this line can pass block and run a screen. Usually to Ken R's left side or the middle.
Waldo
11-09-2009, 12:38 AM
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
Partial
11-09-2009, 12:42 AM
Well said, Waldo.
pbmax
11-09-2009, 12:50 AM
Last year Rodgers had the exact same OL Favre had in 2007. This year, this game, with tausch back, the only change on the OL from what favre had was Sitton over Spitz at G.
Not sure the point here. The offense wasn't the problem with the team last year. Remember they kept the offensive staff and fired the other side of the ball? Rodgers most definitely does not have Favre's clock or sliding ability in the pocket. He showed it somewhat this preseason, but it has disappeared and the pressure keeps coming. By the way, the 2008 line, while the same cast of characters, did not pass block the same way as 2007. Tauscher (in addition to getting hurt and missing 4 games) and Clifton each had their worst pass block year since 2000.
And you know what, it wasn't SItton that was the problem. Yes College, I am looking at your shitty ass.
can't argue this. He has been way up or way down. He is a better run blocker, but versus the Bucs, he was getting torched on pass blocking.
Worse then any favre played behind? He had virtually the same line in 07. For how SUPERIOR the vikings line is, Favre is getting spanked the most since 1999. I mean, favre is getting sacked and hammered. The only reason he isn't sacked as much as AR is because of pocket awareness.
Vikings are giving up sacks, but some of that is Favre, who is refusing to throw into crowds and is taking sacks instead this year. At this rate he will set a career low record for INTs. That alone is increasing his sacks. He also no longer has any mobility. That is not helping either. When the hit is coming, he just goes down (except versus Pack). Just think how many more sacks the Packers would have yielded if Rodgers could not escape the pocket.
Your last assertion, that it is pocket awareness alone protecting him from the same harm as Rodgers is lunacy. While I would not want the paycheck for the LT AND LG, I would switch O lines with the Vikings any day.
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
So what do you think happened from last year to this year?
I had a feeling he'd hit a bit of a sophomore slump this year, because he's still trying to figure out what he can get away with. I admit that I thought that it would manifest itself in gambling, resulting in more interceptions, but the reality is that he's gambling by waiting on the big play.
If Carritis doesn't set in, I think next year is when we see the Rodgers that knows when to pick his spots.
Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.
.
Is this a fact or just your opinion?
Of course it is my opinion. I know of no easily obtainable stat to prove to you that Favre's early career lines were better. But while they couldn't run block for beans at times, they could pass block better than the current line while sleeping.
In 92 he had
LT Ken Ruettgers (1st round)
LG Frank Winters (10th)
LG Rich Moran (3rd)
C James Campen (undrafted I think)
RG Ron Hallstrom (1st)
RT Tootie Robbins (4th)
Ruettgers (30 bum knee) and Hallstrom (34) were high draft picks getting up in years. Robbins was a FA stop gap, but a stop gap that wasn't a turnstile. Frankie was just nasty but not really a guard. He stepped in when Moran got hurt. Robbins was not exactly a cap casualty yet, but his type was easier to get prior to teams figuring out the cap. But he was close to done. It took Wolf until Aaron Taylor to finally get a top notch guard. Then being Wolf he found Timmerman under a rock in Brookings SD in 1995. Please forgive errors of my own causing in this brief and un-annotated Packer History. the Browns did not leave in 1994, so I was only paying partial attention to the Packers at this time.
In 93,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Doug Widell (2)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
RG Harry Galbreath (8th)
RT Tootie Robbins
RT Joe Sims (11th)
Campen's career has ended due to injury and Winters steps in after filling in for guard. Widell is a Bronco high draft pick that simply performed well enough to be replaced the next year after playing in 9 games. Sims briefly made people think we had a RT of the future, but he never got it all figured out. Glabreath was this year's cagey vet signing from the Dolphins I think. But physically, he was about done. He could not be fooled though, so opponents had to beat him physically, which gave everyone a chance. This might have been Favre's most brutal year until 4-12.
In 94, the year he figures it out after nearly being replaced by Mark Brunell,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Guy McIntyre (3rd)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
C Jamie Dukes (undrafted former starter for Atlanta)
RG Harry Galbreath
RT Joe Sims
McIntyre is this year's cagey vet signing and he is even closer to the end than Galbreath who by now looks like a FA steal. But McIntyre is not so lucky and lasts one year. Frankie must have had to cover for Guy as Dukes got 6 starts at center. I remember nothing about him. Sims lasts one year but is inconsistent and gets Wally Pipp'd by Dotson the next year. McIntyre gets replaced by Aaron Taylor and Ruettgers is nearly at the end. But this line can pass block and run a screen. Usually to Ken R's left side or the middle.
Great analysis. Young Favre's line wasn't close to as bad as this season's. I've never seen collapsing and breached pockets so quickly.
The pro-Favre guys need to watch the games impartially.
mmmdk
11-09-2009, 05:36 AM
McCarthy is either an idiot or a liar; Andy Reid [Eagles] would adjust & actually FIX IT. More quick outs, slants & screens; a guy like Reid calls to his players advantage plus acknowledges the limits of whole offense. McCarthy doesn't get it then how can our young QB?
McCarthy is QB coach at best; not a playcaller & not a headcoach worth much - other than he's owed a lot of money.
Imagine Rodgers with a better offense & headcoach - make your pick there but Rodgers would not get destroyed. AR has taked a step back due to poor OL, lousy headcoach and AR is to blame for believing in his own playmaking abilities - almost to a fault. Even the poor ST destroys ya.
AR is fine...still...I agree with the Carr syndrome.
elkopackfan
11-09-2009, 06:57 AM
I just fear ARodg is going to get a season ending injury, which being later in the season could roll over into next season.
pbmax
11-09-2009, 07:13 AM
McCarthy is either an idiot or a liar; Andy Reid [Eagles] would adjust & actually FIX IT. More quick outs, slants & screens; a guy like Reid calls to his players advantage plus acknowledges the limits of whole offense. McCarthy doesn't get it then how can our young QB?
McCarthy is QB coach at best; not a playcaller & not a headcoach worth much - other than he's owed a lot of money.
Imagine Rodgers with a better offense & headcoach - make your pick there but Rodgers would not get destroyed. AR has taked a step back due to poor OL, lousy headcoach and AR is to blame for believing in his own playmaking abilities - almost to a fault. Even the poor ST destroys ya.
AR is fine...still...I agree with the Carr syndrome.
Reid gets hammered just like McCarthy for being stubborn and passing all the time. Also for years of not having a go to receiver. The big difference is that he spends a lot of high picks and FA money for his lines. It was a very mixed bag this year, esp. on the offensive line.
Fritz
11-09-2009, 07:14 AM
Rodgers hangs on to the ball forever back there; I can't believe no one is getting open at all.
Having said that, am I the only one who sees the outside pass rushers collapsing the edges of the pocket every damn pass play? Doesn't matter whether it's Clifton or Lang, Tauscher or Barbre - both offensive tackles seem to get pushed right back into Rodgers's body. Even when he gets a pass off, it looks like it's coming out of a forest of bodies.
There is no pocket at all for the guy. There's always someone within a foot of the guy. And yes, he's holding on too long. I know that. It's frustrating. But the guy has no pocket around him at all.
3irty1
11-09-2009, 08:12 AM
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.
g4orce
11-09-2009, 08:29 AM
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.
First off, Waldo, that is excellent writing and straight to the point. Awesome post!
Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again. Ya you can feed us those oh he only won one super bowl while he was here but great teams win super bowls, great quarterbacks can still win you games. Aaron Rodgers so far has failed as a QB in the NFL. Why? Because he fails when the balls in his hands and his teammates are looking at him to get the job done, plain and simple.
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.
First off, Waldo, that is excellent writing and straight to the point. Awesome post!
Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again. Ya you can feed us those oh he only won one super bowl while he was here but great teams win super bowls, great quarterbacks can still win you games. Aaron Rodgers so far has failed as a QB in the NFL. Why? Because he fails when the balls in his hands and his teammates are looking at him to get the job done, plain and simple.
As someone who loves what Favre has done for our organization, I think your being to hard on A-rod. The kid is doing all that he can and putting up great stats to go along with it. There is only a few elite qb's in the game that could overcome the weakness's of this team. I would put A-rod in the top 10-12 range of qb's as he does put up points.
Scott Campbell
11-09-2009, 08:43 AM
Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.
The 3 picks yesterday reminded me a lot of Old Favre.
http://archive.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg
g4orce
11-09-2009, 08:45 AM
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.
First off, Waldo, that is excellent writing and straight to the point. Awesome post!
Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again. Ya you can feed us those oh he only won one super bowl while he was here but great teams win super bowls, great quarterbacks can still win you games. Aaron Rodgers so far has failed as a QB in the NFL. Why? Because he fails when the balls in his hands and his teammates are looking at him to get the job done, plain and simple.
As someone who loves what Favre has done for our organization, I think your being to hard on A-rod. The kid is doing all that he can and putting up great stats to go along with it. There is only a few elite qb's in the game that could overcome the weakness's of this team. I would put A-rod in the top 10-12 range of qb's as he does put up points.
Maybe I am being "too hard" on Arod. But I don't want to start thinking this is what I have to look forward to with the Packers. We won a lotta games the past 2 decades and I don't want us to start going into seasons not knowing how good we'll be. I loved going into a season and knowing 10 wins was about right where we'd be and if we got some luck, or a few players turned out better, we'd have a couple more wins and at least have a shot in the playoffs. Ya, it only worked once, but its a lot better than the bullshit 4-12, 6-10, and pretty soon to be 6-10 team I'm watching this year. I dont want to keep putting up with it and I hope other Packer fans are as sick to their stomachs about the man in charge of this team as I am.
g4orce
11-09-2009, 08:45 AM
Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.
The 3 picks yesterday reminded me a lot of Old Favre.
http://archive.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg
Let me know the day when Arod gets us even in the playoffs... thanks for playing.
Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.
The 3 picks yesterday reminded me a lot of Old Favre.
http://archive.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg
Your not banned yet?
mraynrand
11-09-2009, 09:00 AM
Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.
http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view¤t=favremoonshot.flv
http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view¤t=favrebailout.flv
http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view¤t=favreslastGBtoss.flv
sharpe1027
11-09-2009, 09:01 AM
This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.
I agree that a comparison to Favre is incorrect and not fair. That being said, IMHO, Rogers held the ball too long and seemed to have plent yof time to throw to WRs even for his strengths. I don't recall him holding the ball that long last year. Something's changed.
Scott Campbell
11-09-2009, 09:02 AM
I agree that a comparison to Favre is incorrect and not fair. That being said, IMHO, Rogers held the ball too long and seemed to have plent yof time to throw to WRs even for his strengths. I don't recall him holding the ball that long last year. Something's changed.
Totally agreed. It looked like he was starting to get it out quicker in the 2nd half against MN, but regressed badly in this game. He seemingly got worse as the game wore on. It was his worst game of the season by far.
mraynrand
11-09-2009, 09:06 AM
I agree that a comparison to Favre is incorrect and not fair. That being said, IMHO, Rogers held the ball too long and seemed to have plent yof time to throw to WRs even for his strengths. I don't recall him holding the ball that long last year. Something's changed.
Totally agreed. It looked like he was starting to get it out quicker in the 2nd half against MN, but regressed badly in this game. He seemingly got worse as the game wore on. It was his worst game of the season by far.
And then McCarthy doesn't help him much either. Switches to all run when they're up by 5, has some success, and then completely ignores the run when down by three, even with almost 5 minutes left. Much of the blame can go to Rodgers, but a little balance might have helped him out.
Scott Campbell
11-09-2009, 09:12 AM
I guess it's really difficult to gauge exactly how bad Rodgers played with the line playing this badly. I didn't notice TB bringing extra rushers. They got plenty of pressure with their front 4.
sharpe1027
11-09-2009, 09:18 AM
Although this can't explain most of the issues, I think he is missing his newly found security blanket, J. Finley. They guy was a matchup problem and always seemed to be open.
Waldo
11-09-2009, 09:30 AM
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.
P. Manning pwns Brett at that.
This is coming from somebody that watches how guys like Romo, E. Manning, Rivers, M Ryan, Brees, etc... do it.
Early (like pre-'07) Aaron really struggled deciding what to do. He just held the ball and got sacked.
Even early in '08 (PS) these problems cropped up again.
Young starters in the NFL tend to have a dumbed down playbook and system that stresses throwing the ball fast. Aaron got that at first.
However it seems that as he has gotten more comfortable, he is regressing to a more natural version of himself and not pressing to quickly get rid of the ball.
You can tell that MM is starting to get angry about this. In the post game presser he blamed Aaron, not the line. It is not like McCarthy to call out his QB in public.
What can he do?
He can try stressing this with Aaron all he wants, what if Aaron isn't listening? Earlier in the season Aaron was nonchalant about the sacks, people pointed out to him that he was holding it too long and was a big part of the problem, and he responded with a "so".
McCarthy has been seen recently yelling at Aaron as he comes off the field after taking unnecessary sacks.
Even if he's not throwing a lot of ints, at what point do the unnecessary sacks basically become ints as it relates to the game. Does McCarthy have the nuts to pull Aaron if he truly feels that Aaron is the problem?
Of course Aaron could always pull himself by being injured. IMO Aaron has to watch his back and not get too comfortable.
Flynn very much strikes me as a Tom Brady type QB. Came into the league with a weak arm and underdeveloped body, that didn't get a chance to play much in college but was good when he did. Flynn has crazy intangibles and is one heck of a natural leader on the field. He was good in the clutch in college, and has been good in the clutch with us (though drops have really hampered a bunch of clutch plays by him, at least he had a catchable ball in the WR's hands). He's looked better than expected every time he played since family night '08. Just this week reporters commented on how sharp he looked. He had mechanics issues and strength issues when he was drafted. If those go away.....
Just like Brady, he could get his shot via injury, and not look back. Bledsoe was a good QB too. It would be preposterous to think that wimpy late round pick could take Bledsoe's job just one week before Drew got injured. The rest...is history.
Maybe that is what kept Brett on his toes for his whole career, and what has kept Brady on his toes, knowing that they were nothing until the established starter got hurt, and they stole his job. And that it is one play away from happening. Aaron doesn't seem to take that threat serious. But he should.
What would you do if Aaron broke his ankle vs Dallas, was out 7 weeks, Flynn came in, was sacked 1/3rd as much as Aaron, had a worse rating, but led the team well, saved the day twice, and went 6-1. Week 17 we're at 10-5, need a win to get the final WC spot. Who plays? That exact same decision created the 2000's Pats dynasty.
denverYooper
11-09-2009, 09:34 AM
Although this can't explain most of the issues, I think he is missing his newly found security blanket, J. Finley. They guy was a matchup problem and always seemed to be open.
Jordy's pretty good at getting open quickly, also.
Partial
11-09-2009, 09:41 AM
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth. Does anyone think Aaron is still a top flight elite QB? Probably not. He's top 12. Like I've been saying all along.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
I call things like I see them. I see a guy who is just not great. Good physical skills, sure, but he isn't a special QB. Flynn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers.
Waldo, if that happens with the 6-1 they will play Flynn. If they were to go Arod and lose the game imagine the heat they'd take. That said, no way does this happen. I do see Rodgers getting hurt and missing a game or two, but I don't see Flynn taking the league by storm nor do I see them having the talent surrounding him to go 6-1. The D isn't who I thought they were. I'm not letting them off the hook, though.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
Maybe if you will about the 6000 other topics you argue about.
Partial
11-09-2009, 09:43 AM
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
Maybe if you will about the 6000 other topics you argue about.
Time will vindicate me as I've been basically right on the money on most topics. Not everything, I thought Morency could be a solid starter (a grant type guy) which he evidently cannot. The rest, not so sure it's off base.
sharpe1027
11-09-2009, 09:46 AM
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth. Does anyone think Aaron is still a top flight elite QB? Probably not. He's top 12. Like I've been saying all along.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
I call things like I see them. I see a guy who is just not great. Good physical skills, sure, but he isn't a special QB. Flynn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers.
Waldo, if that happens with the 6-1 they will play Flynn. If they were to go Arod and lose the game imagine the heat they'd take.
No, you were a jackass that constantly took controversial positions and then would argue them rather than try to discuss them. Your shameless self-gratifying post above does nothing to help your image.
If you bothered to read the thread, you would have realized we are discussing what has changed about Rodgers. As far as I'm concerned, you have improved your posting somewhat lately, but, maybe a tiger can't change his stripes?
Brandon494
11-09-2009, 10:21 AM
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth. Does anyone think Aaron is still a top flight elite QB? Probably not. He's top 12. Like I've been saying all along.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
I call things like I see them. I see a guy who is just not great. Good physical skills, sure, but he isn't a special QB. Flynn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers.
Waldo, if that happens with the 6-1 they will play Flynn. If they were to go Arod and lose the game imagine the heat they'd take. That said, no way does this happen. I do see Rodgers getting hurt and missing a game or two, but I don't see Flynn taking the league by storm nor do I see them having the talent surrounding him to go 6-1. The D isn't who I thought they were. I'm not letting them off the hook, though.
What are you talking about? Fylnn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers? From what a couple of preseason games? AR is a top 6 QB in this league. We all know he holds onto the ball too long but he is also playing behind the worst O-line in the league and if I QB can't trust his league how do you expect him to have a great pocket awareness. He finally has one bad game and now your right about Rodgers? Don't think so buddy.
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth. Does anyone think Aaron is still a top flight elite QB? Probably not. He's top 12. Like I've been saying all along.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
I call things like I see them. I see a guy who is just not great. Good physical skills, sure, but he isn't a special QB. Flynn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers.
Waldo, if that happens with the 6-1 they will play Flynn. If they were to go Arod and lose the game imagine the heat they'd take. That said, no way does this happen. I do see Rodgers getting hurt and missing a game or two, but I don't see Flynn taking the league by storm nor do I see them having the talent surrounding him to go 6-1. The D isn't who I thought they were. I'm not letting them off the hook, though.
Rodgers HAS BEEN a top-flight QB who's confidence has been battered to the point of inefficiency. Up until the last few weeks, he had been improving and looked ready to take the next step.
Every analyst agreed (and disagreed with you).
Now let me be honest with you: People don't attack you for the positions you take. I've agreed with them from time to time. People attack you because you stubbornly ignore evidence contrary to your position and rarely try to address them, which seems to paint you as a smarmy know-it-all. Self-congratulatory post bumping doesn't help either.
In short, you may have a good and sound conclusion, but your argumentative ability to support that conclusion is terrible. Not addressing or downplaying pertinent counter-facts pisses people off.
Waldo, for example, may take an unpopular position, but he has evidence to back him up. And when he's presented with counter-evidence, he'll come with a plausible rebuttal.
You have to "self-scout" and figure out why a large number of this forum takes issue with your online persona. If your online persona is disliked by a few, you can chalk that up to them being unreasonable. But when almost everyone here dislikes your online persona, it's time to look in the mirror.
Don't take it personally - I'm offering my opinion in an effort to make your experience here less contentious.
mraynrand
11-09-2009, 10:25 AM
Dude I just got fucked.
MadtownPacker
11-09-2009, 10:30 AM
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
Maybe if you will about the 6000 other topics you argue about.
Time will vindicate me as I've been basically right on the money on most topics. Not everything, I thought Morency could be a solid starter (a grant type guy) which he evidently cannot. The rest, not so sure it's off base.Dude shut the fuck up!! Your ass aint always right. You did make some good calls but need to listen to what TH87 says about how your delivery is all fucked up.
3irty1
11-09-2009, 11:48 AM
Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.
When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?
Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.
You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.
MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.
AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.
This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.
P. Manning pwns Brett at that.
This is coming from somebody that watches how guys like Romo, E. Manning, Rivers, M Ryan, Brees, etc... do it.
Early (like pre-'07) Aaron really struggled deciding what to do. He just held the ball and got sacked.
Even early in '08 (PS) these problems cropped up again.
Young starters in the NFL tend to have a dumbed down playbook and system that stresses throwing the ball fast. Aaron got that at first.
However it seems that as he has gotten more comfortable, he is regressing to a more natural version of himself and not pressing to quickly get rid of the ball.
You can tell that MM is starting to get angry about this. In the post game presser he blamed Aaron, not the line. It is not like McCarthy to call out his QB in public.
What can he do?
He can try stressing this with Aaron all he wants, what if Aaron isn't listening? Earlier in the season Aaron was nonchalant about the sacks, people pointed out to him that he was holding it too long and was a big part of the problem, and he responded with a "so".
McCarthy has been seen recently yelling at Aaron as he comes off the field after taking unnecessary sacks.
Even if he's not throwing a lot of ints, at what point do the unnecessary sacks basically become ints as it relates to the game. Does McCarthy have the nuts to pull Aaron if he truly feels that Aaron is the problem?
Of course Aaron could always pull himself by being injured. IMO Aaron has to watch his back and not get too comfortable.
Flynn very much strikes me as a Tom Brady type QB. Came into the league with a weak arm and underdeveloped body, that didn't get a chance to play much in college but was good when he did. Flynn has crazy intangibles and is one heck of a natural leader on the field. He was good in the clutch in college, and has been good in the clutch with us (though drops have really hampered a bunch of clutch plays by him, at least he had a catchable ball in the WR's hands). He's looked better than expected every time he played since family night '08. Just this week reporters commented on how sharp he looked. He had mechanics issues and strength issues when he was drafted. If those go away.....
Just like Brady, he could get his shot via injury, and not look back. Bledsoe was a good QB too. It would be preposterous to think that wimpy late round pick could take Bledsoe's job just one week before Drew got injured. The rest...is history.
Maybe that is what kept Brett on his toes for his whole career, and what has kept Brady on his toes, knowing that they were nothing until the established starter got hurt, and they stole his job. And that it is one play away from happening. Aaron doesn't seem to take that threat serious. But he should.
What would you do if Aaron broke his ankle vs Dallas, was out 7 weeks, Flynn came in, was sacked 1/3rd as much as Aaron, had a worse rating, but led the team well, saved the day twice, and went 6-1. Week 17 we're at 10-5, need a win to get the final WC spot. Who plays? That exact same decision created the 2000's Pats dynasty.
Both Favre and Manning are two of the best players to ever touch a football. I don't think anyone ever had anything but the wildest hopes that A-Rod would be a HOF household name. But I do think he's good enough to win and win a lot.
MM has said before the season that A-Rod needs to throw his receivers open and its proven true. IMO holding the ball too long, sacks, etc are symptoms of this not problems on their own. He doesn't shit down his leg in the face of pressure which is a desirable quality. A-Rods game is getting exposed this year by worse tackle play and receivers that aren't winning matchups that they used to win as often as they used to win them.
A-Rod might still have some things to learn but his strengths are still too numerous to be talking about Matt Flynn IMO. The things he does well make him a great QB in my opinion or even if you don't like him you have to admit he's a huge tease.
Tyrone Bigguns
11-09-2009, 11:59 AM
Matt Flynn? Really? Is that the way things are going. Wow. :roll:
Waldo: Holes in your analysis so big that even ryan grant could run thru them.
Partial: Stay classy. :oops:
packerbacker1234
11-09-2009, 12:24 PM
Eh, The problem is hte skillsets I keep seeing people mention AR has are not like... the skillsets that win games.
"AR is young and can run. AR has one of the best deep balls in the game".
Except you only throw it deep maybe 2 or 3 times a game usually. It's the throws of 15 yards and under that win football games.
Where are they? He acts a lot like Sexy Rexy: Wants to go deep every play.
mraynrand
11-09-2009, 12:26 PM
He acts a lot like Sexy Rexy: Wants to go deep every play.
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/grossman1.jpg
packerbacker1234
11-09-2009, 12:51 PM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
Cheesehead Craig
11-09-2009, 01:37 PM
ARod is a top flight QB. Does he make mistakes? Yep. Has he owned up to them? Yep. The standard by which some hold him up to is ridiculous and virtually unattainable.
pbmax
11-09-2009, 01:43 PM
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth. Does anyone think Aaron is still a top flight elite QB? Probably not. He's top 12. Like I've been saying all along.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
I call things like I see them. I see a guy who is just not great. Good physical skills, sure, but he isn't a special QB. Flynn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers.
Waldo, if that happens with the 6-1 they will play Flynn. If they were to go Arod and lose the game imagine the heat they'd take. That said, no way does this happen. I do see Rodgers getting hurt and missing a game or two, but I don't see Flynn taking the league by storm nor do I see them having the talent surrounding him to go 6-1. The D isn't who I thought they were. I'm not letting them off the hook, though.
Except for the fist 6 games of the season when you were admitting he was performing much better. Just stick to one story and like a clock it will be right twice in Rodgers career.
Tyrone Bigguns
11-09-2009, 01:43 PM
Eh, The problem is hte skillsets I keep seeing people mention AR has are not like... the skillsets that win games.
"AR is young and can run. AR has one of the best deep balls in the game".
Except you only throw it deep maybe 2 or 3 times a game usually. It's the throws of 15 yards and under that win football games.
Where are they? He acts a lot like Sexy Rexy: Wants to go deep every play.
Enough with the bs. Enough, please.
Rex Grossman went to the SB..did he have winning skillsets then?
Ty will tell you what a winning skillset is:
1. A decent line
2. A good RB
3. Healthy receivers
4. Special teams that don't fuck up
5. A solid D
How about when the pack have 2 out of those 5 Ty just mentioned and Arod isn't winning you come back with your bs. Till then, please just stop.
Scott Campbell
11-09-2009, 02:00 PM
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth.
Glad to see you admit to being a troll.
Partial
11-09-2009, 02:32 PM
ARod is a top flight QB. Does he make mistakes? Yep. Has he owned up to them? Yep. The standard by which some hold him up to is ridiculous and virtually unattainable.
Owning up to your mistakes makes you a good, noble person but it does not necessarily make you a top flight QB. Not saying this is what you're implying, but you seem to correlating taking ownership of your errors with good play.
I think he's fine but I don't think he's a star by any means.
Partial
11-09-2009, 02:33 PM
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth. Does anyone think Aaron is still a top flight elite QB? Probably not. He's top 12. Like I've been saying all along.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
I call things like I see them. I see a guy who is just not great. Good physical skills, sure, but he isn't a special QB. Flynn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers.
Waldo, if that happens with the 6-1 they will play Flynn. If they were to go Arod and lose the game imagine the heat they'd take. That said, no way does this happen. I do see Rodgers getting hurt and missing a game or two, but I don't see Flynn taking the league by storm nor do I see them having the talent surrounding him to go 6-1. The D isn't who I thought they were. I'm not letting them off the hook, though.
Except for the fist 6 games of the season when you were admitting he was performing much better. Just stick to one story and like a clock it will be right twice in Rodgers career.
He was playing better, yes, but not great. He's got the physical ability, and he's playing alright, but not great.
Tyrone Bigguns
11-09-2009, 03:41 PM
Glad to see some of the homerism is coming down to earth. Does anyone think Aaron is still a top flight elite QB? Probably not. He's top 12. Like I've been saying all along.
Are you all ready to eat the crow you so very much deserve for being dbags to me about this?
I call things like I see them. I see a guy who is just not great. Good physical skills, sure, but he isn't a special QB. Flynn looks to be more of a winner than Rodgers.
Waldo, if that happens with the 6-1 they will play Flynn. If they were to go Arod and lose the game imagine the heat they'd take. That said, no way does this happen. I do see Rodgers getting hurt and missing a game or two, but I don't see Flynn taking the league by storm nor do I see them having the talent surrounding him to go 6-1. The D isn't who I thought they were. I'm not letting them off the hook, though.
Except for the fist 6 games of the season when you were admitting he was performing much better. Just stick to one story and like a clock it will be right twice in Rodgers career.
He was playing better, yes, but not great. He's got the physical ability, and he's playing alright, but not great.
Whatever you say Waffles McButter.
MichiganPackerFan
11-10-2009, 07:55 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
Cheesehead Craig
11-10-2009, 08:23 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 08:25 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
g4orce
11-10-2009, 08:34 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
channtheman
11-10-2009, 08:35 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Probably somehow Rodgers fault.
MOBB DEEP
11-10-2009, 08:38 AM
Aaron needs to study Big Ben in the pocket; he is constantly harrassed but gets it done. He admits he holds on to the ball too long at times b/c he's confident he can elude the rush and still make plays
This could characterize Aaron in the near future since he's getting SO much experience and is more talented than Ben
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 08:38 AM
I think Jennings is the first guy doubled this year. And Donald is benefiting from that.
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 08:38 AM
Aaron needs to study Big Ben in the pocket; he is constantly harrassed but gets it done. He admits he holds on to the ball too long at times b/c he's confident he can elude the and still make plays
This could characterize Aaron in the near future since he's getting SO much experience and is more talented than Ben
Nobody can do what Ben does in the pocket. Tacklers bounce off of him.
g4orce
11-10-2009, 08:41 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Probably somehow Rodgers fault.
I dont know, is it? Or is it really that he forgot how to run routes correctly? Or slowed down and cant get separation? Just hard to believe the dude was so explosive and now can't do diddly .
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 08:43 AM
He's not flying under the radar anymore, and attracting coverage as a number 1 receiver.
MOBB DEEP
11-10-2009, 08:44 AM
Aaron needs to study Big Ben in the pocket; he is constantly harrassed but gets it done. He admits he holds on to the ball too long at times b/c he's confident he can elude the and still make plays
This could characterize Aaron in the near future since he's getting SO much experience and is more talented than Ben
Nobody can do what Ben does in the pocket. Tacklers bounce off of him.
he he...someone last night said he's like 6'13" and 390 lbs...LOL
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 08:47 AM
And that reminds me of what Freeman did best on Sunday. He kept plays alive long after his protection broke down. I thought he played really well, even though he didn't throw really well.
MOBB DEEP
11-10-2009, 08:51 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Probably somehow Rodgers fault.
I dont know, is it? Or is it really that he forgot how to run routes correctly? Or slowed down and cant get separation? Just hard to believe the dude was so explosive and now can't do diddly .
He got paid! :evil:
And with no favre around the atmosphere isnt as conducive for pro-bowl caliber play for SOME?!
Opposite is true for under acheiving Rice, greg lewis, Shiancoe'nem :wink:
How many Jets made pro-bowl last year b/c of Lord? Go back and check ppl. Thomas jones, leon, keller SHOULD hav, the DBs...Jets were talk of town and now are after thought
BEAST
g4orce
11-10-2009, 08:53 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Probably somehow Rodgers fault.
I dont know, is it? Or is it really that he forgot how to run routes correctly? Or slowed down and cant get separation? Just hard to believe the dude was so explosive and now can't do diddly .
He got paid! :evil:
And with no favre around the atmosphere isnt as conducive for pro-bowl caliber play for SOME?!
Opposite is true for under acheiving Rice, greg lewis, Shiancoe'nem :wink:
How many Jest made pro-bowl last year b/c of Lord? Go back and check ppl. Thomas jones, leon, keller SHOULD hav, the DBs...Jets were talk of town and now are after thought
BEAST
Some of it is not playing with Brett, I'm sure. But theres gotta be a lil more to it also. I know Brett usually gets the best out of his talent around him, but Jennings looks like just another guy out there right now. I mean other than the week 1 TD against the Bears, he really hasnt done jack squat.
ok wait, the TD catch against Minnesota was real nice too.
MOBB DEEP
11-10-2009, 08:54 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Probably somehow Rodgers fault.
I dont know, is it? Or is it really that he forgot how to run routes correctly? Or slowed down and cant get separation? Just hard to believe the dude was so explosive and now can't do diddly .
He got paid! :evil:
And with no favre around the atmosphere isnt as conducive for pro-bowl caliber play for SOME?!
Opposite is true for under acheiving Rice, greg lewis, Shiancoe'nem :wink:
How many Jets made pro-bowl last year b/c of Lord? Go back and check ppl. Thomas jones, leon, keller SHOULD hav, the DBs...Jets were talk of town and now are after thought
BEAST
Cant wait to see how many first-time pro-bowlers he creates this season
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 08:58 AM
So I just watched Rodgers presser after the game again:
On his ints:
1st one: I didn't see him, Tried to put in there against the wind.
2nd one: felt good about the 2nd ball, unfortunately got a deflection.
3rd one: Desperation, felt good about the throw but it may have been a little high.
Ok, so i'll give him the 3rd. He had to throw it, and I guess the guy was open, be he threw it high. Admits to it.
First one: He didn't see teh defender set up perfectly to pick it? Alright, admitted mistake.
2nd, he thought it was a good ball? Tripple coverage? Really?
That 2nd is what concerns me the most. That was a horrible decision.
on #2, I don't like the throw into triple coverage, but one of the highest paid players in the league should be able to go up and get that ball against substantially overmatched secondary. While I didn't like the throw, I liked Jennings effort even less. Big Time player with Big Time salary has to make Big Time plays.
While the pass was not a good idea, the ball did bounce off of Jennings. He should have caught it.
And even worse than that, Jennings just stood in the end zone watching the run back. Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Terrible decision.
Perfect throw.
Crappy attempt at a catch.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Probably somehow Rodgers fault.
I dont know, is it? Or is it really that he forgot how to run routes correctly? Or slowed down and cant get separation? Just hard to believe the dude was so explosive and now can't do diddly .
He got paid! :evil:
And with no favre around the atmosphere isnt as conducive for pro-bowl caliber play for SOME?!
Opposite is true for under acheiving Rice, greg lewis, Shiancoe'nem :wink:
How many Jets made pro-bowl last year b/c of Lord? Go back and check ppl. Thomas jones, leon, keller SHOULD hav, the DBs...Jets were talk of town and now are after thought
BEAST
Cant wait to see how many first-time pro-bowlers he creates this season
I can't wait till he cures cancer, and ends world hunger.
g4orce
11-10-2009, 09:02 AM
Cant wait to see how many first-time pro-bowlers he creates this season
Possibles for making the pro bowl.
Favre
AP
Shaincoe
Harvin
Rice
Hutch
Allen
Williams x2
Henderson
Greenway
Winfield
Longwell
I got a total of 13 guys that could be on the squad. Dunno how many are first timers.
pbmax
11-10-2009, 09:06 AM
Cant wait to see how many first-time pro-bowlers he creates this season
Possibles for making the pro bowl.
Favre
AP
Shaincoe
Harvin
Rice
Hutch
Allen
Williams x2
Henderson
Greenway
Winfield
Longwell
I got a total of 13 guys that could be on the squad. Dunno how many are first timers.
But how does Longwell affect Rodgers pocket presence?
g4orce
11-10-2009, 09:10 AM
Cant wait to see how many first-time pro-bowlers he creates this season
Possibles for making the pro bowl.
Favre
AP
Shaincoe
Harvin
Rice
Hutch
Allen
Williams x2
Henderson
Greenway
Winfield
Longwell
I got a total of 13 guys that could be on the squad. Dunno how many are first timers.
But how does Longwell affect Rodgers pocket presence?
Maybe we shoulda kept him, beefed him up, and played him at left tackle.
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Supposedly
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 09:14 AM
Jennings just hasn't played/acted the same all year. Couple years ago he's taking slants to the house, now he's supposively struggling to get open. Just hard to believe.
Supposedly
Juxtaposed with suppository.
MichiganPackerFan
11-10-2009, 10:02 AM
Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Totally forgot about that in my misery. Loved the shot that DD put on him!
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 10:18 AM
Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Totally forgot about that in my misery. Loved the shot that DD put on him!
Donald got hit like that a million times running those over the middle routes throughout the years. That hit was all about payback.
MichiganPackerFan
11-10-2009, 10:23 AM
Thankfully Donald absolutely destroyed the guy.
Totally forgot about that in my misery. Loved the shot that DD put on him!
Donald got hit like that a million times running those over the middle routes throughout the years. That hit was all about payback.
That's exactly what I thought!
Scott Campbell
11-10-2009, 10:25 AM
The best part was the woozy defender laying on the ground thinking "Was that Lawrence Taylor?".
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