Where do we go from here?

[channtheman]

Is the Packers season completely over after this loss? Has the team really lost their confidence in the coaches? If we miss the playoffs, does MM lose his job?

Or

Does this team, that I have to believe is underachieving on a massive scale come together after this and finish the season strong? I guess we'll see soon enough.

If we want to make the playoffs, we were going to have to win many of the games in the second half of the season anyway. Obviously, this loss hurts our chances but we still play Dallas, San Fran, Chicago, Detroit, and Arizona. All of those games are critical for the NFC playoffs and if we lose any of them, it's likely we weren't going to the playoffs anyway.

Whatever, I'm not even sure what my point with this topic is, I guess just wondering if it is realistic MM gets fired after a shitty season, or if the season truly is over after today.

[denverYooper]

The season's not over, although they sure put themselves in a much tougher spot this week. There's a chance that this loss makes them take a hard look at everyone (coaches included) and they figure out a way to win. There's some hope for redemption if they beat Dallas and can pull together a few wins in their next few games. I hope so.

But I'm no longer excited about this year's team. I've moved into wait-and-see mode, far more boring territory. I like watching the games every week. I'll continue to cheer like hell every Sunday and hope they do well. I like talking Packers. But I don't have confidence in them right now.

[MJZiggy]

The season's not over, although they sure put themselves in a much tougher spot this week. There's a chance that this loss makes them take a hard look at everyone (coaches included) and they figure out a way to win. There's some hope for redemption if they beat Dallas and can pull together a few wins in their next few games. I hope so.

But I'm no longer excited about this year's team. I've moved into wait-and-see mode, far more boring territory. I like watching the games every week. I'll continue to cheer like hell every Sunday and hope they do well. I like talking Packers. But I don't have confidence in them right now.

Beat Dallas? They just lost by 10 to one of the worst teams in football. Beat Dallas. Sure.

[mraynrand]

Da thing to do is just sorda take it eesy on the players dis week an deyll be allride for da cowboys

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Workedem.jpg

[packerbacker1234]

Maybe this is just the wake up call the pack needed. They HAVE to, I repeat, HAVE TO BEAT Dallas. No exception.

We can then lose to pitt and baltimore, beat everyone else, and be 10 - 6 with a realistic wild card chance.

OF course, we lose to dallas, it's pretty much all over. 4 nfc losses = no wild card for us.

Now, is this team going to fold and be shit the rest of the year, or is just the punch in the face the coaching staff, and the players, need to wake the hell up. Be interesting to see if we show up for the Dallas game. Dallas is a good football team. I think that game will tell us how the rest of hte season goes.

[Freak Out]

Loooooong odds to beat Big D. At home, on the road...on the moon..it doesn't matter.

[pbmax]

We will form a wall here AND here! Then we will run it in The ALLEY!

[MOBB DEEP]

Beat Dallas? They just lost by 10 to one of the worst teams in football. Beat Dallas. Sure.

And dallas jus beat philly on the road! :evil:

[CaliforniaCheez]

A .500 team through the easy half of the season.

Cowboys Not much confidence with this losing streak
49'ers They have a chance, maybe
Lions on Thanksgiving...could be a repeat of the Bucs game on national television.
Ravens national television jinx again.
Bears I hope they don't take a 6 game losing streak into this game.
Steelers This road game could get ugly.
Seahawks I hope it is a Christmas present of some good cheer.
Cardinals Let's start the offseason mentality could wreck them.

If McCarthy can somehow get to 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, It can be spun as improvement over last season.

The .500 Conference record after losing to the Bucanners has damaged playoff hopes severely.
Last season the injury excuse was valid.
This season there is no excuse. (A block punt costs them victory over an 0-7 team, No change in strategy for the 2nd viking game, bad penalties)
It is bad coaching that has wrecked this season.

McCarthy won't get fired as that is too expensive an option.
I expect McCarthy will throw a few assistant coaches under the bus (special teams and O-line are safe bets)
McCarthy will claim to be "fixing it" during the off season.

The draft will not fill the holes at Safety, D-line, O-line, RB, coverage teams.

The pain has only begun.

[channtheman]

Is it reasonable to expect the following in each and every Packer game that is left on this schedule?

A). 5 plus sacks be it on the line or Rodgers at least 5 a game
B). Special team fuckups on both sides (big returns given up, when we get a good return there is holding, missed field goals, and possibly blocked punts)
C). Stupid penalties
D). Shitty playcalling (not only not running the ball but lining up in shotgun formation with no option to run, etc.)

Those have been happening pretty much every game all season, so why isn't MM getting it fixed?

[Badgerinmaine]

Is it reasonable to expect the following in each and every Packer game that is left on this schedule?

Yes.
But to play devil's advocate with CalCheez, if the Packers wake up and play to their skill level (huge if, I know), I don't think there's a team left they couldn't beat. The Steelers lost to a Bears team we know has plenty of problems, the Ravens are disappointing, the Cowboys are spotty and barely beat the Chiefs, and so on. Let's hope this TB game was a great big wakeup call.

[hurleyfan]

Maybe this is just the wake up call the pack needed. They HAVE to, I repeat, HAVE TO BEAT Dallas. No exception.

I would've thought the "wake up" call would've come after the 2nd ass kicking by the Vikes..

The Pack certainly didn't look like a team that answered any questions, to an inferior team.

NO question they have to beat Dallas, and I try to stay optimistic, but that Dallas "D" will be licking their chops, and this game could be over early.. Might even get to see Matt Flynn play as A-Rod is going to get killed.

[Pugger]

Maybe its a good thing Dallas won last night. Maybe now they'll over look us! :wink:

But seriously, almost every team every year loses inexplicably to a lesser opponent. There is usually one stinker of a game every year. Back in our SB winning season we went into Indy and got beat by a previously winless team. What will be more telling is how this present Packer team reacts to yesterday's embarrassment. Will they come out with a purpose or will they wilt yet again. How they respond will tell us if this coaching staff has lost this team or not and will determine if Murphy and/or TT decide a change is necessary for next season. Unless things unravel completely I doubt we'll see any heads roll before January.

[g4orce]

Maybe this is just the wake up call the pack needed. They HAVE to, I repeat, HAVE TO BEAT Dallas. No exception.


sometimes you sleep thru your alarm.

[MOBB DEEP]

The pain has only begun.

Quite sagacious of you

Sky has fallen :roll:

[mraynrand]

Maybe its a good thing Dallas won last night. Maybe now they'll over look us! :wink:

But seriously, almost every team every year loses inexplicably to a lesser opponent. There is usually one stinker of a game every year. Back in our SB winning season we went into Indy and got beat by a previously winless team.

That would be the year the Packers lost SB XXXII. Ironically, it was the game before they played Dallas at home and won 45-17 (tied 10-10 at half after a Favre pick 6 to Deion).

[Waldo]

McCarthy won't get fired as that is too expensive an option.

No it's not.

1) It is not a lump sum payment. McCarthy has 4M on his contract per year for 3 more years. If is not like a cap acceleration.

2) McCarthy would have to make a good faith effort to find work. Taking an early retirement after getting fired would mean the Packers owe him zilch.

3) When he does find work (lets be real, he's developed enough QB's that he will be in very high demand, at least as OC), whatever he makes in that job will be taken out of what he is owed by the Packers. If he makes 1M/yr as OC, he will only be owed 3M/yr for the next 3 years. That is hardly "too expensive".

4) If 2M/yr Ted goes with him, he too has a very good reputation in the league for certain things. He would be in very high demand as a director of pro personnel or as a head of scouting. If he doesn't get another GM job and has to settle for these lesser jobs, again, it comes out of what he would be owed by us, a 1M/yr job for him elsewhere would mean he only gets 1M/yr from us.

Say that one of the many teams that fires its HC this year hires McCarthy as HC for 2M/yr, and Ted finds work as a pro personnel guy for 1M/yr. The team would be on the hook for 3M/yr for the next 3 years. That is not enough money for the team to think it financially irresponsible to dump them. Winning can EASILY make up that difference.

[gbgary]

stick a fork in 'em.

[mraynrand]

Waldo,

Some have speculated that Green Bay had trouble attracting top of the line coaching talent in the last round - thus McCarthy, Vanilla Bob (who just beat us), and Capers instead of 6 other head coaches, and defensive coordinators like Williams, etc. This used to be true back in the dark days of the 80s - at least in perception with regard to players - what do you think is the likelihood that the Packers will find themselves in a difficult position to attract a good GM - especially if they shitcan Thompson just two years removed from his 'Executive of the year' award?

[red]

McCarthy won't get fired as that is too expensive an option.

No it's not.

1) It is not a lump sum payment. McCarthy has 4M on his contract per year for 3 more years. If is not like a cap acceleration.

2) McCarthy would have to make a good faith effort to find work. Taking an early retirement after getting fired would mean the Packers owe him zilch.

3) When he does find work (lets be real, he's developed enough QB's that he will be in very high demand, at least as OC), whatever he makes in that job will be taken out of what he is owed by the Packers. If he makes 1M/yr as OC, he will only be owed 3M/yr for the next 3 years. That is hardly "too expensive".

4) If 2M/yr Ted goes with him, he too has a very good reputation in the league for certain things. He would be in very high demand as a director of pro personnel or as a head of scouting. If he doesn't get another GM job and has to settle for these lesser jobs, again, it comes out of what he would be owed by us, a 1M/yr job for him elsewhere would mean he only gets 1M/yr from us.

Say that one of the many teams that fires its HC this year hires McCarthy as HC for 2M/yr, and Ted finds work as a pro personnel guy for 1M/yr. The team would be on the hook for 3M/yr for the next 3 years. That is not enough money for the team to think it financially irresponsible to dump them. Winning can EASILY make up that difference.

thank you waldo

[MadtownPacker]

That is a good breakdown from Waldo. I would have to agree that money wont keep Stubby in town. TT will get a chance with 1 more coach.

[g4orce]

TT will get a chance with 1 more coach.


Why? He had Sherman. He didn't like him, so he fired him. Now he got to hand pick his coach, its a failure, well right now, and the team HE assembled sucks and he gets another shot? WHY!!?!

[MadtownPacker]

TT will get a chance with 1 more coach.


Why? He had Sherman. He didn't like him, so he fired him. Now he got to hand pick his coach, its a failure, well right now, and the team HE assembled sucks and he gets another shot? WHY!!?!Paco, you know Sherman wasn't TT's hire.

[g4orce]

TT will get a chance with 1 more coach.


Why? He had Sherman. He didn't like him, so he fired him. Now he got to hand pick his coach, its a failure, well right now, and the team HE assembled sucks and he gets another shot? WHY!!?!Paco, you know Sherman wasn't TT's hire.

I didn't say he was. I just don't understand why he gets a free pass in this mess. I really dont. Why cuz he has one good season in 5 years? It just doesn't make sense.

[MadtownPacker]

I didn't say he was. I just don't understand why he gets a free pass in this mess. I really dont. Why cuz he has one good season in 5 years? It just doesn't make sense.What Im saying is that he will likely get to burn through two HCs before he gets the boot.

[g4orce]

I didn't say he was. I just don't understand why he gets a free pass in this mess. I really dont. Why cuz he has one good season in 5 years? It just doesn't make sense.What Im saying is that he will likely get to burn through two HCs before he gets the boot.

Wouldn't it make more sense, right now anyways, to get a new GM/Coach or a new GM and coach since all the great coaches that are out there waiting on the right situation. I have a hard to believing a few of those guys will want to come in here and work for Ted Thompson and not be able to go get guys they want because he wants to hoard all the cap money for no good reason. We have some pieces, its time to dump him, and pick up those pieces and win now. The Seattle Seahawks made a nice run when his time there was done, I think we should take a page out of their book. Plus then I won't have as much hatred in my heart, its really not healthy.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I think TT has a great strategy to rebuild a team from scratch. Trade down and get more players and hope you hit on a couple. But after three seasons of that, you should be restocked and ready to fill in a couple key pieces and make a run. TT's got to step his game up to the next level or it's time to move him out.

I'm pretty frustrated with Stubby's Stubbornness. RUN THE DAMN BALL.

[mraynrand]

Paco, you know Sherman wasn't TT's hire. I didn't say he was..

Priceless

[Smidgeon]

TT will get a chance with 1 more coach.

Agreed. I think TT has assembled some good talent (but has holes in his GMing like every GM--worse than some, better than most), but the thing that makes it seem like he isn't doing so hot is a coach who isn't covering his GM "sins". I bet Kraft has made some gregarious errors too, but Belicheck seems to cover those errors just fine. I'm starting to be more tentative in my support of TT, but M3 has started making me withdraw that support game by miserable game.

[mngolf19]

This is not a Browns type of situation. So TT is good for another few years. MM is probably 50/50. Lots of problems stem from him/his responsibility but TT will likely give another year due to extension. I think next year is make or break though and due to lack of OL and ability to change it in the next year along with no reason to think MM is going to fix his issues in 1 year means 2010 will be his last.

[sheepshead]

Mike McCarthy is looking at more like Marty Mornhinweg then Vince Lombardi right now.

[Fritz]

I gotta agree with ya, Sheepy.

And Mad Props for Mad. Classic.

[pbmax]

I'll tell you what the problem is. M3 is listening to us.

We hit too much during pre-season and are now worn out. Plus M3 had them practicing outside like everyone has wanted him to since 2006. Good plan the week before an 84 degree day in Tampa. He needs to stop listening to us. No hitting and stay indoors until December. And this probably means he should stop trying to run the ball. And Thomspon doomed us by trading up. Bad Sherman juju. Its only a matter of time before another west coast linebacker starts pulling down players from behind.

[AtlPackFan]

A .500 team through the easy half of the season.

Cowboys Not much confidence with this losing streak
49'ers They have a chance, maybe
Lions on Thanksgiving...could be a repeat of the Bucs game on national television.
Ravens national television jinx again.
Bears I hope they don't take a 6 game losing streak into this game.
Steelers This road game could get ugly.
Seahawks I hope it is a Christmas present of some good cheer.
Cardinals Let's start the offseason mentality could wreck them.

If McCarthy can somehow get to 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, It can be spun as improvement over last season.

The .500 Conference record after losing to the Bucanners has damaged playoff hopes severely.
Last season the injury excuse was valid.
This season there is no excuse. (A block punt costs them victory over an 0-7 team, No change in strategy for the 2nd viking game, bad penalties)
It is bad coaching that has wrecked this season.

McCarthy won't get fired as that is too expensive an option.
I expect McCarthy will throw a few assistant coaches under the bus (special teams and O-line are safe bets)
McCarthy will claim to be "fixing it" during the off season.

The draft will not fill the holes at Safety, D-line, O-line, RB, coverage teams.

The pain has only begun.

Unfortunately, I wholeheartedly agree. I don't see anything changing in the next couple of years either...I just don't see the Pack eating the remaining years of MM and TT's contract....hope I'm wrong.

[wist43]

Seasons not over, but it's fading fast...

I give them little to no chance of beating Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or Arizona - that puts them at 7 losses right there... one more loss along the way, and they pretty much will have played themselves out of the playoffs.

They have 4 wins... 3 of those came against 3 of the worst teams in the league (Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland), and one of their losses came against one of the worst teams in the league (TB).

Post-draft... I had them at about 9-7. After their preseason explosion, I bumped that up to 11-5 (maybe). Now, reality has set in... 9-7 seems like a long shot.

[wist43]

You guys are so negative :lol: :lol: :lol:

[pbmax]

Seasons not over, but it's fading fast...

I give them little to no chance of beating Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or Arizona - that puts them at 7 losses right there... one more loss along the way, and they pretty much will have played themselves out of the playoffs.

They have 4 wins... 3 of those came against 3 of the worst teams in the league (Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland), and one of their losses came against one of the worst teams in the league (TB).

Post-draft... I had them at about 9-7. After their preseason explosion, I bumped that up to 11-5 (maybe). Now, reality has set in... 9-7 seems like a long shot.
Baltimore just lost to the Bengals by 10. We put up a better fight than that. Its in Lambeau. Little chance is selling the Packers too short or giving the struggling Ravens too much credit.

[LEWCWA]

I was going to start something like this. Yesterday is the first time I have felt TT and MM should be feeling the heat. Yesterdays loss was inexcuseable. Terrible from the top down. My opinion, you better get it fixed and in a hurry or you'll be looking for work soon!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Seasons not over, but it's fading fast...

I give them little to no chance of beating Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or Arizona - that puts them at 7 losses right there... one more loss along the way, and they pretty much will have played themselves out of the playoffs.

They have 4 wins... 3 of those came against 3 of the worst teams in the league (Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland), and one of their losses came against one of the worst teams in the league (TB).

Post-draft... I had them at about 9-7. After their preseason explosion, I bumped that up to 11-5 (maybe). Now, reality has set in... 9-7 seems like a long shot.
Baltimore just lost to the Bengals by 10. We put up a better fight than that. Its in Lambeau. Little chance is selling the Packers too short or giving the struggling Ravens too much credit.

Agreed. Football, like any sport is mental. Baltimore may very well be mentally sinking when they face us. They are already "out" of the playoffs right now, and if they lose 2 in a row to Indy and Pitt right b4 us, leaving them at 5-6..they may be so defeated that they basically check out for the season.

[Scott Campbell]

You guys are so negative :lol: :lol: :lol:



I need that laugh! Thanks wist.

[MichiganPackerFan]

You guys are so negative :lol: :lol: :lol:

:D :lol: