Pinpointing the Problem

[Fritz]

After yesterday's heartrending loss, I have been reevaluating my perspective. I really did think this team had the talent to win the division or at least get into the playoffs and do some damage.

However, I watched yesterday's game and felt like I was watching the clownish Forrest Gregg teams of yesteryear. Special teams a sieve, the offense completely out of sync, the defense crumbling at key moments.

So beyond the simplistic "fire everyone right now," the bigger question is this: is the central problem a lack or talent or a lack of good coaching - or both? Is this a talented but sorely underachieving team, or did many people (myself included) overestimate the talent on the roster?

Finding the correct answer to that question is crucial to this team's future. If this team really does have talent but continues to stumble (and I see no signs any more that this will not be the case), then MM needs to go at the end of the year. I would start by firing Campen and Slocum, today, but ultimately it's the head coach's responsibility. Now, TT hired the guy so it's on him, but if he has in fact provided the talent to win, he'll probably get a mulligan and get to fire MM and pick another coach.

If however the correct answer is that this roster is just not talented enough no matter who's the coach, then TT's job ought to be in jeopardy. This is his fifth year - practically forever in the NFL - and if he hasn't gotten the talent through the pipeline by now, well, maybe the end of the season will be time for him to go. IF it's not just the coaching, it would appear that he's butchered the offensive line and to some degree the running back position as well.

We'll see, I suppose. Before yesterday I still felt like this was a good team, a 10-6 team, but after yesterday's circus, I feel like this team is making zero progress. Maybe it's not fixable, or maybe it's fixable but MM ain't the guy to do it.

What do you all think?

[hurleyfan]

I think it's a combination of Lack of Talent, AND lack of good coaching..

TT built Seattle to a "competetive" level but they maxed out, as one of the constant younger teams in the league.. TT leaves Seattle, 2 years later they go to the big dance...

MM brought these coaches, and after the complete revamp on the defensive side last year, we're stuck with the same old lack of execution on the O-Line..Some of the problems might have to do with talent, but Sherman had pretty good O lines with a ifferent set of coaches. And had Clifton & Tauscher (of course they are now 5 years older)

[swede]

Fritz, I would agree, +1.

To me, the unknown is Mark Murphy. Does he have the balls to fire TT?

IMO TT had his chance and showed himself to be a good fiscal manager and a poor judge of coaching talent.

Next.

[pbmax]

I am still at darkest before the dawn stage. But the numerous preventable mistakes; penalties, sacks, and bad special teams plays have been repeated far too often to just dismiss. They have to fall on the coach.

The Packers held the ball for 10 minutes longer on offense and gained 120 more net yards. But their own mistakes killed their chances. I think its up to the coach to stop mistakes from happening. The only good sign is that they had 5 penalties for the first time this year I think.

[cheesner]

I am still at darkest before the dawn stage. But the numerous preventable mistakes; penalties, sacks, and bad special teams plays have been repeated far too often to just dismiss. They have to fall on the coach.

The Packers held the ball for 10 minutes longer on offense and gained 120 more net yards. But their own mistakes killed their chances. I think its up to the coach to stop mistakes from happening. The only good sign is that they had 5 penalties for the first time this year I think.
I am with you.

The players are not very disciplined. This falls right on MM's shoulders, and then TT's if he allows it to continue. There are coaches in the NFL who are doing much better with much less. I like MM's style, but he has not progressed as a coach IMHO. Personally, I don't think they practice correctly. Make em do it over and over until perfection becomes a habit.

[g4orce]

I think its the chicken and the egg scenario. Is it bad coaching thats not allowing the full talent of this team to come out, or is it the lack of talent that is hindering our coaches from doing what they want to do scheme wise?


My personal take is that we are missing good/great talent in too many key areas. I also think youth is great, but too much youth and its bad. There has to be a good mixture. Its sort of like a good high school team, a team that has a few good seniors, a few good juniors, a few good sophomores and maybe 1 or 2 good freshman usually is better than an all senior team or an all sophomore team. Just how it usually pans out.


I think McCarthy is one hell of an offensive coach. His track record with offense cannot be denied. Hell he got great stats outta Aaron Brooks who I think its a POS of a QB. But he also needs to teach Arod to be a winner. Sometimes you just gotta dig deep, find whatever it is inside you that says, I'm not losing this game no matter what you do to me. So far, he whizzes down his leg when the balls in his hands in the 4th qrt and the team looking at him to do something. Some of this has to be put on MM too for not helping a young QB thru this.

Coaches that need to go IMO: Oline coach, Special teams coach, and the dumbass GM who still has pieces of trash like Jarret Bush on this football team.

[Scott Campbell]

Sometimes you just gotta dig deep, find whatever it is inside you that says, I'm not losing this game no matter what you do to me.




Inspirational words to live by.

[g4orce]

Sometimes you just gotta dig deep, find whatever it is inside you that says, I'm not losing this game no matter what you do to me.




Inspirational words to live by.


Thank you.

[pbmax]

Is it bad coaching thats not allowing the full talent of this team to come out, or is it the lack of talent that is hindering our coaches from doing what they want to do scheme wise?
It takes no specific level of talent for the FB Kuhn on the punt team to remember who to block. And coverage units are similar. Stay in your lane, keep the returner from cutting your line and force him towards help. Other than running, no specific talent required.

[hoosier]

I have liked McCarthy since the day he took over, and even after last season's disappointment I was pretty confident he would turn it around this year. But after watching yesterday's game I find myself on the other side of the fence. The dumb penalties that never get corrected. The lack of consistency on special teams, which carries over from Stock (at least in 2008) to Slocum. The inability to put together a functional offensive line. The strange play calling, which was especially noticeable yesterady as the Packers were having great success running the ball but then, when they have a first down on the TB seven yard line, they inexplicably go shotgun on 1st and 2nd down. The results are incompletion, sack and a dump off on third and long.

In his postgame comments yesterday McCarthy had a cryptic comment in response to a question about the pass protection comments:
The other part of it too, I thought he had plenty of time to throw. I'm real curious to see the film because either they're doing a hell of a job covering us. There is time and time again that our receivers, on crossing routes versus that coverage, I'll be curious to see what the film looks like.
. Is he discretely pointing the finger at Rodgers here, suggesting that ARod needs to start taking more risks with the short passing game instead of holding onto it indefinitely? (ARod certainly took plenty of risks yesterday, like the long pass to a triple-covered Jennings on first down in TB territory...)

My sad conclusion is that McCarthy's team is in its fourth year and is still showing itself to be an undisciplined group that does not work well together. The playcalling, especially the refusal to stick with the running game even when it is working very well, is just icing on the cake. Or mustard on the crap sandwich.

EDIT: Another big disappointment this year has been McCarthy's seeming inability to get Rodgers to recognize what is not working--to emphasize the short passing game more and to avoid holding onto the ball for an eternity. McCarthy has a reputation for being a QB guru, and he always compliments Rodgers on being a very coachable QB. So why is he appearing to regress in terms of his ability to see the field and make quick but smart decisions?

[Scott Campbell]

It takes no specific level of talent for the FB Kuhn on the punt team to remember who to block. And coverage units are similar. Stay in your lane, keep the returner from cutting your line and force him towards help. Other than running, no specific talent required.



I thought that play might be a sign of things to come yesterday. It seemed like the Bucs should have gotten a flag for having 19 men on the field.

It's hard to blame Kapinos, but if I saw that many guys coming at me, I'd have taken a knee.

[g4orce]

Is it bad coaching thats not allowing the full talent of this team to come out, or is it the lack of talent that is hindering our coaches from doing what they want to do scheme wise?
It takes no specific level of talent for the FB Kuhn on the punt team to remember who to block. And coverage units are similar. Stay in your lane, keep the returner from cutting your line and force him towards help. Other than running, no specific talent required.

True, but maybe they are "dumb" football players. Some players just always know where to be on the field and maybe we just don't have those type of players.

[Pugger]

The difference in the game yesterday was special teams. Tampa blocks a punt for one score and has 2 big returns for 2 more TDs. Sad day all around. It will be interesting to see what happens if this team continues to flounder like this the rest of the season...

[Scott Campbell]

The difference in the game yesterday was special teams. Tampa blocks a punt for one score and has 2 big returns for 2 more TDs. Sad day all around. It will be interesting to see what happens if this team continues to flounder like this the rest of the season...



You're right of course, but we should have been good enough to overcome that. This is a bad Tampa team with a Rookie QB getting his first start - who I thought played really well. I'm every bit as disappointed in the O and the D as I am with the special teams.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I would say that this team is poorly coached in several areas:

Campen needs to go. OL is a mess.
Slocum needs to go. ST is a mess.
Rushing needs to go. He's in charge of offensive quality control. He's failed.

Philbin needs to start calling the plays. MM's calling these deep passes which call for Rodgers to hold onto the ball too long, but with our OL there should not be this many of them.

[MadScientist]

There are too many basic and repeated mistakes. That is the coaches fault, unless the players are all Jude Waddy / Torrence Mashall morons. We won't fully know where and how the talent needs to be upgraded until the coaching gets way better.

[Fritz]

So far most people seem to think the blame lies primarily with McCarthy. There appears to be a sense from many people - though not all - that there is more talent on this team than has been shown so far.

I am increasingly disappointed in McCarthy. I thought the pieces were in place, essentially, and the team has had no more injury problem than any other team in the NFL. Light on the O line, for sure, but as every time I read a scouting report for the week's opponent I see comments about this half of the o-line is a couple of stiffs, this left tackle is a mauler who can be beaten, and so on and so forth. It seems that few teams have stellar offensive lines, yet GB manages to have some of the worst performances from its offensive line than just about any other team in the league.

That is, even if they're not that great, shouldn't Campen/MM be able to get them to be, at least, mediocre?

[Smidgeon]

So far most people seem to think the blame lies primarily with McCarthy. There appears to be a sense from many people - though not all - that there is more talent on this team than has been shown so far.

I am increasingly disappointed in McCarthy. I thought the pieces were in place, essentially, and the team has had no more injury problem than any other team in the NFL. Light on the O line, for sure, but as every time I read a scouting report for the week's opponent I see comments about this half of the o-line is a couple of stiffs, this left tackle is a mauler who can be beaten, and so on and so forth. It seems that few teams have stellar offensive lines, yet GB manages to have some of the worst performances from its offensive line than just about any other team in the league.

That is, even if they're not that great, shouldn't Campen/MM be able to get them to be, at least, mediocre?

I have been supportive of both TT and M3 all season...for the most part. I'm still a fan of TT's draft evaluation ability. But M3 is losing me game by game. I wonder what another coach could do with the same talent: a top 5 or 10 QB, top 5 WR team, top secondary (3 Pro-bowlers), DL and LB talent, etc.

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?

[Scott Campbell]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

Remind of us of that long line of college coaches that were successful in the NFL.

He is running the spread. That ain't gonna cut it in the NFL.

[Smidgeon]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

Is he looking to jump to the NFL?

[mraynrand]

Packers might only be able to hire Lane Meyer

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2222/2074466821_c5c9392c37.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

Is he looking to jump to the NFL?



Doubt it. He's making $4M per at FL.


I think he's the best coach in sports, and have since he was here at Utah.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Again, please list the successful college coaches in the NFL.

[mngolf19]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

Is he looking to jump to the NFL?



Doubt it. He's making $4M per at FL.


I think he's the best coach in sports, and have since he was here at Utah.

He also will be in line for the Notre Dame job.

[Smidgeon]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

Is he looking to jump to the NFL?


Doubt it. He's making $4M per at FL.


I think he's the best coach in sports, and have since he was here at Utah.


Are there any available NFL coaches (or assistant coaches) who you think could take GB to the next step?

[pbmax]

In his postgame comments yesterday McCarthy had a cryptic comment in response to a question about the pass protection comments:
The other part of it too, I thought he had plenty of time to throw. I'm real curious to see the film because either they're doing a hell of a job covering us. There is time and time again that our receivers, on crossing routes versus that coverage, I'll be curious to see what the film looks like.
. Is he discretely pointing the finger at Rodgers here, suggesting that ARod needs to start taking more risks with the short passing game instead of holding onto it indefinitely?
That would seem to be exactly what he is saying. And why, when everyone screams for the play callers head for too many long pass plays, they need to remember that the play called in the huddle may not be the one they see executed at the LOS.

[Bretsky]

Again, please list the successful college coaches in the NFL.

I'd take Jimmy Johnson any day of the week

Most coaches fail. I have no view of Urban Meyer but IMO if you think he's a rising star you don't run because he's a college coach

[Bretsky]

Undoubtedly both

We've overrated TTT
We've overrated MM

I'm not sold it's the assistant coaches but that's where the axes will fall first

[Scott Campbell]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

Is he looking to jump to the NFL?



Doubt it. He's making $4M per at FL.


I think he's the best coach in sports, and have since he was here at Utah.

He also will be in line for the Notre Dame job.



He turned that down for the FL job last time around.

[mngolf19]

So I guess I'll pose a question: what coach available with his specific history could get the most out of the GB talent (because I do believe GB has the talent)?


Urban Meyer.

He wins everywhere he goes, and with other people's players.

Is he looking to jump to the NFL?



Doubt it. He's making $4M per at FL.


I think he's the best coach in sports, and have since he was here at Utah.

He also will be in line for the Notre Dame job.



He turned that down for the FL job last time around.

Not exactly, don't remember the story word for word but a little insider birdie told me that it had to do with the timing. Also, he is on record as saying that the ND job is his dream job. And the timing will be better now as Weis is likely to get the heave ho after this season. (again, the birdie)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Again, please list the successful college coaches in the NFL.

I'd take Jimmy Johnson any day of the week

Most coaches fail. I have no view of Urban Meyer but IMO if you think he's a rising star you don't run because he's a college coach

Correct. Jimmy was dang good. Didn't hurt that he got a ton of picks for Walker.

Jimmy is the exception that proves the rule. The fail rate for college coaches is astronomically high....guys that were just as highly regarded have failed: Erickson, Spurrier, Petrino, Nick saban, Rich Brooks, Mike Riley, Butch Davis, etc.

Rather deal with an up and coming NFL assistant than a guy unaccustomed the demands of the NFL and as well as dealing with grown men, not college students.

Factor in the huge payday for a guy like Meyer....disaster of epic proportions waiting to happen.

[Scott Campbell]

Not exactly, don't remember the story word for word but a little insider birdie told me that it had to do with the timing. Also, he is on record as saying that the ND job is his dream job. And the timing will be better now as Weis is likely to get the heave ho after this season. (again, the birdie)



ND and Ohio State have always been Meyer's "dream jobs". But Meyer took the FL job over the ND job last time because of the opportunity to win - specifically because of recruiting.

[mngolf19]

Not exactly, don't remember the story word for word but a little insider birdie told me that it had to do with the timing. Also, he is on record as saying that the ND job is his dream job. And the timing will be better now as Weis is likely to get the heave ho after this season. (again, the birdie)



ND and Ohio State have always been Meyer's "dream jobs". But Meyer took the FL job over the ND job last time because of the opportunity to win - specifically because of recruiting.

I think he has just as much opp to recruit to ND as FL. Just all the guys before him had too many issues one way or another to make it work. Also, he'll look for the next challenge. Especially after they win the whole thing this year.

[Scott Campbell]

Not exactly, don't remember the story word for word but a little insider birdie told me that it had to do with the timing. Also, he is on record as saying that the ND job is his dream job. And the timing will be better now as Weis is likely to get the heave ho after this season. (again, the birdie)



ND and Ohio State have always been Meyer's "dream jobs". But Meyer took the FL job over the ND job last time because of the opportunity to win - specifically because of recruiting.

I think he has just as much opp to recruit to ND as FL. Just all the guys before him had too many issues one way or another to make it work. Also, he'll look for the next challenge. Especially after they win the whole thing this year.


I think the academic requirements make it harder to win at ND right now. That, and with Miami and Florida State moving out of the elite college football programs, it's easy pickings in one of the most fertile recruiting hot beds in the country.

Will ND pony up an offer of more than $4M per year? He's very close to Bernie Machen, so it would be difficult to pry him away.

[mngolf19]

I think the academic requirements make it harder to win at ND right now. That, and with Miami and Florida State moving out of the elite college football programs, it's easy pickings in one of the most fertile recruiting hot beds in the country.

Will ND pony up an offer of more than $4M per year? He's very close to Bernie Machen, so it would be difficult to pry him away.

I'm told yes as they are willing to buy out Weis and his giant extension as well. He's got like 5-7 years left for crying out loud. And money is never an issue for them.

[red]

Not exactly, don't remember the story word for word but a little insider birdie told me that it had to do with the timing. Also, he is on record as saying that the ND job is his dream job. And the timing will be better now as Weis is likely to get the heave ho after this season. (again, the birdie)



ND and Ohio State have always been Meyer's "dream jobs". But Meyer took the FL job over the ND job last time because of the opportunity to win - specifically because of recruiting.

I think he has just as much opp to recruit to ND as FL. Just all the guys before him had too many issues one way or another to make it work. Also, he'll look for the next challenge. Especially after they win the whole thing this year.


I think the academic requirements make it harder to win at ND right now. That, and with Miami and Florida State moving out of the elite college football programs, it's easy pickings in one of the most fertile recruiting hot beds in the country.

Will ND pony up an offer of more than $4M per year? He's very close to Bernie Machen, so it would be difficult to pry him away.

yeah ND hasn't been average or better for almost 20 years now. too damn toough to get the good players when the requirements are so high. and they just aren't the powerhouse, need to go-to school to this generation like they were for so many decades

and what really gets me is the exclusive tv rights to nbc. lol, all that money for a shitty team

[Scott Campbell]

I think the academic requirements make it harder to win at ND right now. That, and with Miami and Florida State moving out of the elite college football programs, it's easy pickings in one of the most fertile recruiting hot beds in the country.

Will ND pony up an offer of more than $4M per year? He's very close to Bernie Machen, so it would be difficult to pry him away.

I'm told yes as they are willing to buy out Weis and his giant extension as well. He's got like 5-7 years left for crying out loud. And money is never an issue for them.


Well, good luck to them. It won't be easy.

He's the most charismatic leader I've ever watched. He can take the same group of guys that a lesser coach got fired with, and run the table. I've never seen anyone like him. We knew from the first press conference that we hit the big time.

I think he's really going to miss Dan Mullen though.

[mngolf19]

Not exactly, don't remember the story word for word but a little insider birdie told me that it had to do with the timing. Also, he is on record as saying that the ND job is his dream job. And the timing will be better now as Weis is likely to get the heave ho after this season. (again, the birdie)



ND and Ohio State have always been Meyer's "dream jobs". But Meyer took the FL job over the ND job last time because of the opportunity to win - specifically because of recruiting.

I think he has just as much opp to recruit to ND as FL. Just all the guys before him had too many issues one way or another to make it work. Also, he'll look for the next challenge. Especially after they win the whole thing this year.


I think the academic requirements make it harder to win at ND right now. That, and with Miami and Florida State moving out of the elite college football programs, it's easy pickings in one of the most fertile recruiting hot beds in the country.

Will ND pony up an offer of more than $4M per year? He's very close to Bernie Machen, so it would be difficult to pry him away.

yeah ND hasn't been average or better for almost 20 years now. too damn toough to get the good players when the requirements are so high. and they just aren't the powerhouse, need to go-to school to this generation like they were for so many decades

and what really gets me is the exclusive tv rights to nbc. lol, all that money for a shitty team

Granted they have higher academic standards, but the NBC part is exactly why saying they can't recruit or are not a go-to school I think are wrong. They get good ratings, hence the contract. They are obviously popular and well known to the general public. They still get top 25 recruiting classes every year. Just had losers coaching them. NBC is starting to get on them though about their scheduling, which was the fault of the last AD who also was thrown out due to not giving football it's due.

[mngolf19]

I think the academic requirements make it harder to win at ND right now. That, and with Miami and Florida State moving out of the elite college football programs, it's easy pickings in one of the most fertile recruiting hot beds in the country.

Will ND pony up an offer of more than $4M per year? He's very close to Bernie Machen, so it would be difficult to pry him away.

I'm told yes as they are willing to buy out Weis and his giant extension as well. He's got like 5-7 years left for crying out loud. And money is never an issue for them.


Well, good luck to them. It won't be easy.

He's the most charismatic leader I've ever watched. He can take the same group of guys that a lesser coach got fired with, and run the table. I've never seen anyone like him. We knew from the first press conference that we hit the big time.

I think he's really going to miss Dan Mullen though.


I agree with all this.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Meyer is a dang good coach. No doubt about it.

But, he inherited a bunch of players from zook. Can't blame him for that, but you have to note it.

Also, to his credit took advantage of bad times at Miami and FSU. That won't last. Miami is on the rise and bowden is near the end.

Let's see how he does in the future when the hunting for recruits gets tougher in Florida.......and now that Saban is at Bama. Saban is the best coach in the SEC and prolly all of college football.

[Scott Campbell]

Meyer is a dang good coach. No doubt about it.

But, he inherited a bunch of players from zook. Can't blame him for that, but you have to note it.



Exactly. He won with the same kids that got Zook fired.


You also have to note that he won it with mostly his kids last year. And so far this year.

[pbmax]

Not exactly, don't remember the story word for word but a little insider birdie told me that it had to do with the timing. Also, he is on record as saying that the ND job is his dream job. And the timing will be better now as Weis is likely to get the heave ho after this season. (again, the birdie)



ND and Ohio State have always been Meyer's "dream jobs". But Meyer took the FL job over the ND job last time because of the opportunity to win - specifically because of recruiting.

I think he has just as much opp to recruit to ND as FL. Just all the guys before him had too many issues one way or another to make it work. Also, he'll look for the next challenge. Especially after they win the whole thing this year.
The story is that Meyer had two recruits he wanted to bring with him from Boise for his first class and he asked ND if they could get cleared academically. They could not and he went to Florida.

[Scott Campbell]

Saban is the best coach in the SEC and prolly all of college football.



The so called best coach in the SEC got his ass kicked in the Sugar Bowl last year against a mediocre Utah team. And by Meyer a few weeks before that. He's a fine coach, but he's only won the National Championship once.

I'll take Meyer.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Meyer is a dang good coach. No doubt about it.

But, he inherited a bunch of players from zook. Can't blame him for that, but you have to note it.



Exactly. He won with the same kids that got Zook fired.


You also have to note that he won it with mostly his kids last year. And so far this year.

Zook isnt' a good coach, great recruiter. But, those players were youngsters when zook was fired. Zook, idiot that he was, made a commitment to go young right away...and sacrificed winning to develop the youngsters..that helped Meyer tremendously.

Last year: No doubt.

This year. Squad hasn't looked as good. Winning, but offense is WAY down.

Like i said, let's see how he does now that Miami is back and Bama is back.

And, let's see how things work out when Tebow is gone as well.

[Brandon494]

Saban is the best coach in the SEC and prolly all of college football.



The so called best coach in the SEC got his ass kicked in the Sugar Bowl last year against a mediocre Utah team. And by Meyer a few weeks before that. He's a fine coach, but he's only won the National Championship once.

I'll take Meyer.

Meyer also has had the golden boy each season he has coached at Florida.

I'd still rank them as Meyer, Saban, Carroll, Tressell, Brown, Stoops.

[Smidgeon]

I'd still rank them as Meyer, Saban, Carroll, Tressell, Brown, Stoops.

Say none of them jump to the NFL? Who in the NFL is the next hot coach? Is it a retread like Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher? Or is it some coordinator somewhere?

[Scott Campbell]

I'd still rank them as Meyer, Saban, Carroll, Tressell, Brown, Stoops.

Say none of them jump to the NFL? Who in the NFL is the next hot coach? Is it a retread like Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher? Or is it some coordinator somewhere?


I was hoping Jeff Fisher would get himself fired. Except Vince Young has single-handedly saved his job over the last two weeks.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Saban is the best coach in the SEC and prolly all of college football.



The so called best coach in the SEC got his ass kicked in the Sugar Bowl last year against a mediocre Utah team. And by Meyer a few weeks before that. He's a fine coach, but he's only won the National Championship once.

I'll take Meyer.

All coaches have bad games. Should we dismiss Meyer's 9-3 squad the year after the title. His second year with Bama.

Mediocre Utah. Mediocre teams aren't in the sugar bowl. LOL

That partial level trolling!

I'm sure you will. We will see in the coming years.

[Scott Campbell]

Saban is the best coach in the SEC and prolly all of college football.



The so called best coach in the SEC got his ass kicked in the Sugar Bowl last year against a mediocre Utah team. And by Meyer a few weeks before that. He's a fine coach, but he's only won the National Championship once.

I'll take Meyer.

All coaches have bad games. Should we dismiss Meyer's 9-3 squad the year after the title. His second year with Bama.


Meyer didn't coach at Bama.

[Scott Campbell]

That partial level trolling!



No. Partial level trolling would be arguing that Charlie Wies is the best coach in college football.

[mraynrand]

Again, please list the successful college coaches in the NFL.

Barry Switzer!

[Scott Campbell]

Again, please list the successful college coaches in the NFL.

Barry Switzer!


He did win a Superbowl - didn't he?

And then Jones fired him pretty quick for recruiting violations or sumthin.

[mngolf19]

I'd still rank them as Meyer, Saban, Carroll, Tressell, Brown, Stoops.

Say none of them jump to the NFL? Who in the NFL is the next hot coach? Is it a retread like Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher? Or is it some coordinator somewhere?

The 3 you mention will have jobs next year if they want them. And all will likely get what they are looking for eventually. Coordinators are where it's at in the NFL now. Vikes DC Frazier, Philly DC, NE OC, Dal OC. Just depends on what and how many jobs are avail. I'd say Was, Oak, Jax, Buf, Cle. Depends for Dal and Car. Very outside Chi, GB.

[Smidgeon]

Vikes DC Frazier, Philly DC, NE OC, Dal OC. Just depends on what and how many jobs are avail. I'd say Was, Oak, Jax, Buf, Cle. Depends for Dal and Car. Very outside Chi, GB.

The Philly DC? He's been on the job less than a year. Same with the NE OC. I get the Vikes DC and Dal OC (sorta). But why those first two? So far McDaniels is the only Belicheck disciple to have success after leaving NE. How can we know their current OC can do the same? Same goes for the Philly DC.

[mngolf19]

Vikes DC Frazier, Philly DC, NE OC, Dal OC. Just depends on what and how many jobs are avail. I'd say Was, Oak, Jax, Buf, Cle. Depends for Dal and Car. Very outside Chi, GB.

The Philly DC? He's been on the job less than a year. Same with the NE OC. I get the Vikes DC and Dal OC (sorta). But why those first two? So far McDaniels is the only Belicheck disciple to have success after leaving NE. How can we know their current OC can do the same? Same goes for the Philly DC.

He's been using Jim Johnson's scheme for many years. And remember some guys get hired straight from position coach, not coord. NE OC, only because everything NE or Belichick is hot when they are winning. Not saying I would want to go that direction, but really wouldn't want to go the college direction either. There just isn't alot of other options if the Big 3 turn you down.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Saban is the best coach in the SEC and prolly all of college football.



The so called best coach in the SEC got his ass kicked in the Sugar Bowl last year against a mediocre Utah team. And by Meyer a few weeks before that. He's a fine coach, but he's only won the National Championship once.

I'll take Meyer.

All coaches have bad games. Should we dismiss Meyer's 9-3 squad the year after the title. His second year with Bama.



Meyer didn't coach at Bama.


Ty knows that. It was in reference to the first sentence. Didn't feel like fixing it..thought you'd understand.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That partial level trolling!



No. Partial level trolling would be arguing that Charlie Wies is the best coach in college football.

Ok. Point made.

Paco level of trolling!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Again, please list the successful college coaches in the NFL.

Barry Switzer!

I'm all for a Switzer guy...as long as we have the talent the Boy's had.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I'd take Jimmy Johnson any day of the week


I think even just his hair could call a decent game.

[Fritz]

I'd love to have JJ up here. What the hell.

But let's see if MM can turn this beast around first.

I'm not hopeful of that much, still, the NFL is a strange league and we might as well wait and see.