What if this team goes 10-6?

[Tony Oday]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?

[g4orce]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?


Id wet myself

[hoosier]

The first words out of my mouth would be: What took them so long?

Then: Soft schedule.

:lol: :lol:

[Brandon494]

What if we finished 4-12? We just lost to TB, I'm sorry but this season is over in my mind. Hopefully I'm wrong and we make alittle run like the Cardinals last season.

[Smidgeon]

"If McCarthy had been a real coach and pushed 'em, they'd be 12-4."

(Disclaimer: how do I say "tongue firmly in cheek" without giving some of you some wordplay/semantics fodder?)

[Tony Oday]

What if we finished 4-12? We just lost to TB, I'm sorry but this season is over in my mind. Hopefully I'm wrong and we make alittle run like the Cardinals last season.

That wasn't my question...very impolite to answer a question with another ;) hehe

[mission]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.

What if the players take it upon themselves to step and actually play close to their ability? Is that because MM deserves his job? Unfortunately, that will be how it looks ...

I don't know ... I'll ALWAYS root for the Packers to win every game no matter what. I'm not *that* guy, but I don't want the truth to be clouded by temporary elation if we finish this season strong.

[g4orce]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.

What if the players take it upon themselves to step and actually play close to their ability? Is that because MM deserves his job? Unfortunately, that will be how it looks ...

I don't know ... I'll ALWAYS root for the Packers to win every game no matter what. I'm not *that* guy, but I don't want the truth to be clouded by temporary elation if we finish this season strong.



Are you adding yourself to a group like the TT "haters" that want the packers to do bad so he leaves? It sure sounds like it....... :oops:

[Scott Campbell]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?



I'd say nice job. And sorry Dom.

[MadtownPacker]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.This is about my belief when it comes to M3 aka Stubby.

Dude we just got smoked by a crap Tampa team and a rookie QB. 10-6 aint happening.

[mission]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.

What if the players take it upon themselves to step and actually play close to their ability? Is that because MM deserves his job? Unfortunately, that will be how it looks ...

I don't know ... I'll ALWAYS root for the Packers to win every game no matter what. I'm not *that* guy, but I don't want the truth to be clouded by temporary elation if we finish this season strong.



Are you adding yourself to a group like the TT "haters" that want the packers to do bad so he leaves? It sure sounds like it....... :oops:

I'm in the fire MM immediately and give TT one more year boat... I'm not nearly as supportive of TT as I have been in the past -- especially after some of his bonehead cuts look in retrospect -- but I firmly believe there's 10-6 / 11-5 talent on this team. They're just underperforming.

I don't think we have a roster as good as Minnesota's due to our inability to pull a big trigger, but maybe this season will be a wakeup call and we'll be a little more aggressive in the offseason (unlikely, I know).

TT hasn't assembled the best team in football, but I'd like a chance to at least see what this teams actual potential is before deciding it's not talented enough to compete. Those bodies on the line aren't a 6 sack a game offensive line... there's a lot of 'retardedness' going on and it starts with MM. His shit job just helps some of the shit flow up hill to TT ...

[cheesner]

And what if a monkey came flying out of TT's butt?

Actually, I don't think 10-6 is impossible. I believe we have the talent for even better. There is a chance that the team rallies around themselves and the coaches and they pull this season out.

I don't think that is very likely, however.

I am now in the camp that thinks MM is a below average coach and that may be all he will ever amount to. I give TT another 3 years with a new coach and see what happens. Even if the Packers go 10-6, the fact remains that the first half of the season the Packers only played well as a team in the first game against the Bears. The rest of the games they appeared not ready to play, were very sloppy and mistake filled. These are all coaching issues. I even think the talent is there on the O-Line. Put most of OL guys on a good team and they would look good.

[Smidgeon]

I am now in the camp that thinks MM is a below average coach and that may be all he will ever amount to.

I think one area where M3 is a great coach is in developing young QBs. Since AR is exiting that range, I expect his impact with him is diminishing. But Flynn and Brohm, however, might still be reaping benefits that might lead to a good future trade. Likely? Unlikely? Who knows. But maybe M3 has run his course. Maybe.

[mraynrand]

I'd be a lot more worried if the Bucs had just beat the crap outta the Pack. They won because the Pack made tons of unforced errors. There is a lot of talent on the roster, but the schedule looks tough. 10-6 is difficult, but not impossible. Need some consistent, mistake free play.

[woodbuck27]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?

I'd say that the Packer coach's and players really turned it around. As a fan that's what I expect to happen and 8-8 doesn't cut it. The GM supplies the players. If their inadequate then MM has to ask for more and TT has to do something to get fresh talent onboard. It's game to game when your half way through the schedule and 4-4.

I just cannot get into this attitude of ....''we'll wait till seasons end and then re-assess the whole thing''. We have to beat Dallas at home this week. No. . . if's, and's or but's about it. If we don't as fans we should be looking for some real changes.

No more of this lolly dogging attitude.

[bobblehead]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?

I'll claim I knew it all along and never doubted them. I'll unashamedly claim I knew Babre was going to turn it around and I'll pretend I never posted anything to the contrary.

[Brandon494]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.

What if the players take it upon themselves to step and actually play close to their ability? Is that because MM deserves his job? Unfortunately, that will be how it looks ...

I don't know ... I'll ALWAYS root for the Packers to win every game no matter what. I'm not *that* guy, but I don't want the truth to be clouded by temporary elation if we finish this season strong.



Are you adding yourself to a group like the TT "haters" that want the packers to do bad so he leaves? It sure sounds like it....... :oops:

I'm in the fire MM immediately and give TT one more year boat... I'm not nearly as supportive of TT as I have been in the past -- especially after some of his bonehead cuts look in retrospect -- but I firmly believe there's 10-6 / 11-5 talent on this team. They're just underperforming.

I don't think we have a roster as good as Minnesota's due to our inability to pull a big trigger, but maybe this season will be a wakeup call and we'll be a little more aggressive in the offseason (unlikely, I know).

TT hasn't assembled the best team in football, but I'd like a chance to at least see what this teams actual potential is before deciding it's not talented enough to compete. Those bodies on the line aren't a 6 sack a game offensive line... there's a lot of 'retardedness' going on and it starts with MM. His shit job just helps some of the shit flow up hill to TT ...

I'm with you on this, this team is too talented to be playing like they have this season.

[Scott Campbell]

I just cannot get into this attitude of ....''we'll wait till seasons end and then re-assess the whole thing''. We have to beat Dallas at home this week. No. . . if's, and's or but's about it. If we don't as fans we should be looking for some real changes.

No more of this lolly dogging attitude.



I think we should fire/hire the whole staff after each loss. Heck, if we have a really bad quarter, I'm all for making the move mid-game. We could have Understudies waiting in the wings to assume control at a moments notice. It'll be the like Ruskies in WWII - wave after wave after wave of coaches and front office people. The Vikings won't know what hit em.

[sharpe1027]

I just cannot get into this attitude of ....''we'll wait till seasons end and then re-assess the whole thing''. We have to beat Dallas at home this week. No. . . if's, and's or but's about it. If we don't as fans we should be looking for some real changes.

No more of this lolly dogging attitude.



I think we should fire/hire the whole staff after each loss. Heck, if we have a really bad quarter, I'm all for making the move mid-game. We could have Understudies waiting in the wings to assume control at a moments notice. It'll be the like Ruskies in WWII - wave after wave after wave of coaches and front office people. The Vikings won't know what hit em.

Yes! Why stop there? They should have a different coach step in and call each drive. They can stay until they fail to score, then bring in the new guy!

Frankly, I thought Murphy's interview was pretty telling: MM's job is on the line.

[Partial]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

[mission]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

:fishingemoticon:

[outflow]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

[mission]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

I think it was more of a 'everyone here wants everyone fired but would you still feel the same way if we went 6-2 from here out'?

I get that there are some that think we might be able to do it but even those people wouldn't bet money on it. :lol:

[Tony Oday]

I think we can do it. I think we have a talented team with a half slow coach that isnt coaching to his teams talent.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Why 10 and 6?

[3irty1]

I'd want MM gone even if they went 6-2.

2007 is too far removed for me to remember my man crush for him. TT is more than safe in my opinion.

[Tony Oday]

10 and 6 because that is generally seen as a decent year...anything above that and good to great year...below well improvement needed.

[MOBB DEEP]

this team is too talented to be playing like they have this season.

TOTALLY agree

Like Hasselbeck said on espn, packers have ALOT of talent on both sides of the ball, esp skill positions. He picked GB to make SB and now considers them the most disappointing team in the NFL!

Something's amiss

Are they cursed like the whole Bambino thing? I still dont know what happened b/w hosting the nfccg and last season's debacle to losing to the dreamcicles; SAME roster for the MOST part :evil: :evil:

Hilarious avatar Mad

[BEARMAN]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.This is about my belief when it comes to M3 aka Stubby.

Dude we just got smoked by a crap Tampa team and a rookie QB. 10-6 aint happening.

I feel ur pain MP ! Da BEARS are right there next to ur Packers on that sinking ship ! Injuries, poor play and now Tommy clubbing that poor defencless olineman ? What's next, ... Cheerleaders ? :shock:

[bobblehead]

I just cannot get into this attitude of ....''we'll wait till seasons end and then re-assess the whole thing''. We have to beat Dallas at home this week. No. . . if's, and's or but's about it. If we don't as fans we should be looking for some real changes.

No more of this lolly dogging attitude.



I think we should fire/hire the whole staff after each loss. Heck, if we have a really bad quarter, I'm all for making the move mid-game. We could have Understudies waiting in the wings to assume control at a moments notice. It'll be the like Ruskies in WWII - wave after wave after wave of coaches and front office people. The Vikings won't know what hit em.

Yes! Why stop there? They should have a different coach step in and call each drive. They can stay until they fail to score, then bring in the new guy!



sort of like the gameday thread...I like it.

[mmmdk]

10-6 ?

I'd say that Packer OL had me fooled. McCoach too.

In our dreams though.

6-10 much more likely.

[bobblehead]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.This is about my belief when it comes to M3 aka Stubby.

Dude we just got smoked by a crap Tampa team and a rookie QB. 10-6 aint happening.

I feel ur pain MP ! Da BEARS are right there next to ur Packers on that sinking ship ! Injuries, poor play and now Tommy clubbing that poor defencless olineman ? What's next, ... Cheerleaders ? :shock:


Yeah, but you guys are supposed to suck. Were not.

[sharpe1027]

I feel ur pain MP ! Da BEARS are right there next to ur Packers on that sinking ship ! Injuries, poor play and now Tommy clubbing that poor defencless olineman ? What's next, ... Cheerleaders ? :shock:

Yeah, rough year for both teams so far. At least we can both look forward to a high first round pick next year if things don't turn around. What? You don't have one next year? Aww shucks! :wink:

[Partial]

I'd want MM gone even if they went 6-2.

2007 is too far removed for me to remember my man crush for him. TT is more than safe in my opinion.

He shouldn't be. For such a great drafter, he has produced two red chip talents (Rodgers, Jennings) and a bunch of average to below average starters. His best two moves since joining Pack were signing Pickett (pro bowler this year, defensive MVP this year) and Chuck (Defensive MVP every year prior to this).

Thompson's guy are not looking good. Even my boy JJ looks like just a guy.

Scary thing is this... The guys we're relying on week in and week out to provide intensity and come in to bail us out are going to be gone soon. Chuck, Harris, Driver, Tauscher and Clifton are all near the end.

[Partial]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

[cheesner]

I'd want MM gone even if they went 6-2.

2007 is too far removed for me to remember my man crush for him. TT is more than safe in my opinion.

He shouldn't be. For such a great drafter, he has produced two red chip talents (Rodgers, Jennings) and a bunch of average to below average starters. His best two moves since joining Pack were signing Pickett (pro bowler this year, defensive MVP this year) and Chuck (Defensive MVP every year prior to this).

Thompson's guy are not looking good. Even my boy JJ looks like just a guy.

Scary thing is this... The guys we're relying on week in and week out to provide intensity and come in to bail us out are going to be gone soon. Chuck, Harris, Driver, Tauscher and Clifton are all near the end.
But are the players not great because they didn't have talent to begin with, or because their talent was not brought out or utilized to its fullest potential? That is the question.

IMHO, the talent is there. This was the #5 ranked offense last season and now they aren't. Their special teams has stunk. They have lots of brain farts and generally play without much discipline. These are coaching and not talent issues.

If we had better coaching, guys like Colledge, Barbre, Grant, Hawk, etc may be thought of as 'red chip' talent.

[The Leaper]

What if I wake up and Jenna Jamison is sitting on my cock?

Both have about the same chance of happening at this point.

[outflow]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

[pbmax]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.This is about my belief when it comes to M3 aka Stubby.

Dude we just got smoked by a crap Tampa team and a rookie QB. 10-6 aint happening.
Indianapolis Colts and Paul Justin. 1996.

[pbmax]

Ravens lost by 10 to the Bengals and scored 7 points. How do they look superior to the Packers?

Eagles lost to the Raiders. Do you seriously think the Packers couldn't compete with these two teams?

McCarthy has one charge. Fix the idiotic mistakes. Penalties, drops, mis-kicks and special teams coverage and sacks/QB trigger.

He gets any three of those done and the Packers will be 10-6. But I am not sure he knows how at this point. The only positive right now is that they had only 5 penalties versus Tampa.

[Partial]

Ravens lost by 10 to the Bengals and scored 7 points. How do they look superior to the Packers?

Eagles lost to the Raiders. Do you seriously think the Packers couldn't compete with these two teams?

McCarthy has one charge. Fix the idiotic mistakes. Penalties, drops, mis-kicks and special teams coverage and sacks/QB trigger.

He gets any three of those done and the Packers will be 10-6. But I am not sure he knows how at this point. The only positive right now is that they had only 5 penalties versus Tampa.

Ravens are a mystery. The one big time team they beat was Denver and that was coming off a bye. They hung with NE, Cinci and Minne very closely, but still, you've gotta win big games. I'm surprised by the opposition that they have beat. I would have thought it would have been greater. That said, if I had to make a choice, I'd pick Baltimore, but I guess this one could can get bumped into my go-either-way group.

Philly is the best team in the NFC right now IMHO. They have disgusting offensive talent and are just starting to click. If I had to choose a team to represent the NFC in the super bowl and knock off the Vikes, this is that team.

I'm very surprised by your stance. They've got some really, really tough games ahead. Even if they plug the OL they still won't have the pass rush to shut down the really good Os. They're in for a struggle in my opinion.

[3irty1]

I'd want MM gone even if they went 6-2.

2007 is too far removed for me to remember my man crush for him. TT is more than safe in my opinion.

He shouldn't be. For such a great drafter, he has produced two red chip talents (Rodgers, Jennings) and a bunch of average to below average starters. His best two moves since joining Pack were signing Pickett (pro bowler this year, defensive MVP this year) and Chuck (Defensive MVP every year prior to this).

Thompson's guy are not looking good. Even my boy JJ looks like just a guy.

Scary thing is this... The guys we're relying on week in and week out to provide intensity and come in to bail us out are going to be gone soon. Chuck, Harris, Driver, Tauscher and Clifton are all near the end.

TT's best move to date is drafting A-Rod. Finding a franchise QB gives you a bunch of get out of jail free cards as a GM. Not that he needs them.

His drafting as been so so. He is over criticised for his lack of FA moves but the ones he makes seem to work out well. He seems to extend all the right guys and let the right ones walk. Financially he's a wizard. I'd say Ted has a few big successes and zero big mistakes. I think McCarthy is at least half to blame for any major holes in the team. I'd like to see Ted work with another coach.

[Partial]

I'd want MM gone even if they went 6-2.

2007 is too far removed for me to remember my man crush for him. TT is more than safe in my opinion.

He shouldn't be. For such a great drafter, he has produced two red chip talents (Rodgers, Jennings) and a bunch of average to below average starters. His best two moves since joining Pack were signing Pickett (pro bowler this year, defensive MVP this year) and Chuck (Defensive MVP every year prior to this).

Thompson's guy are not looking good. Even my boy JJ looks like just a guy.

Scary thing is this... The guys we're relying on week in and week out to provide intensity and come in to bail us out are going to be gone soon. Chuck, Harris, Driver, Tauscher and Clifton are all near the end.

TT's best move to date is drafting A-Rod. Finding a franchise QB gives you a bunch of get out of jail free cards as a GM. Not that he needs them.

His drafting as been so so. He is over criticised for his lack of FA moves but the ones he makes seem to work out well. He seems to extend all the right guys and let the right ones walk. Financially he's a wizard. I'd say Ted has a few big successes and zero big mistakes. I think McCarthy is at least half to blame for any major holes in the team. I'd like to see Ted work with another coach.

A few things:

Way too soon to declare either of the quarterbacks franchise type QBs. Both have to win big games and show they can carry a team before they can even be considered anything more than average players. I'll give Flynn the benefit of the doubt as I think he's a gamer, but Rodgers hasn't shown me much to date. Many of my gripes are coming to fruition this season. He puts up nice, efficient stats, but the only stat I care about is the W, where he does quite poor.

I will get flamed to hell for this but I've heard rumbling of an eventual QB controversy. You heard it here first. Flynn has evidently looked awesome in practice as he is an innovator like Favre, and his arm strength is getting better to match his pinpoint accuracy. There is a growing school of thought that they found a diamond in the rough out of LSU.

Ted chose the coach and has to lie in the bed he made. I don't think he is a great coach either, but I don't think the guys drafted are particularly talented, either. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

I don't think he's a wizard financially. He overpaid and overvalued Ryan Grant big time. He overpaid for Rodgers at the time, but with QBs the cost is just gonna keep going up, so I guess it will look reasonable in a year or two.

[Brohm]

At 10-6 I'd think we would still be out off the playoffs, unless one of Philly, Dallas or NY tanks it. TT and MM stay employed. Campen and Slocum still canned as there is no way in hell the players are going to start tuning in to them.

[3irty1]

I'd want MM gone even if they went 6-2.

2007 is too far removed for me to remember my man crush for him. TT is more than safe in my opinion.

He shouldn't be. For such a great drafter, he has produced two red chip talents (Rodgers, Jennings) and a bunch of average to below average starters. His best two moves since joining Pack were signing Pickett (pro bowler this year, defensive MVP this year) and Chuck (Defensive MVP every year prior to this).

Thompson's guy are not looking good. Even my boy JJ looks like just a guy.

Scary thing is this... The guys we're relying on week in and week out to provide intensity and come in to bail us out are going to be gone soon. Chuck, Harris, Driver, Tauscher and Clifton are all near the end.

TT's best move to date is drafting A-Rod. Finding a franchise QB gives you a bunch of get out of jail free cards as a GM. Not that he needs them.

His drafting as been so so. He is over criticised for his lack of FA moves but the ones he makes seem to work out well. He seems to extend all the right guys and let the right ones walk. Financially he's a wizard. I'd say Ted has a few big successes and zero big mistakes. I think McCarthy is at least half to blame for any major holes in the team. I'd like to see Ted work with another coach.

A few things:

Way too soon to declare either of the quarterbacks franchise type QBs. Both have to win big games and show they can carry a team before they can even be considered anything more than average players. I'll give Flynn the benefit of the doubt as I think he's a gamer, but Rodgers hasn't shown me much to date. Many of my gripes are coming to fruition this season. He puts up nice, efficient stats, but the only stat I care about is the W, where he does quite poor.

I will get flamed to hell for this but I've heard rumbling of an eventual QB controversy. You heard it here first. Flynn has evidently looked awesome in practice as he is an innovator like Favre, and his arm strength is getting better to match his pinpoint accuracy. There is a growing school of thought that they found a diamond in the rough out of LSU.

Ted chose the coach and has to lie in the bed he made. I don't think he is a great coach either, but I don't think the guys drafted are particularly talented, either. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

I don't think he's a wizard financially. He overpaid and overvalued Ryan Grant big time. He overpaid for Rodgers at the time, but with QBs the cost is just gonna keep going up, so I guess it will look reasonable in a year or two.

I won't flame you for the QB controversy because I think you'll hear enough from everyone else. I will say that its going to take more than some JSO fluff pieces to give me a Flynn boner. I haven't seen him play but I agree he's already a good value from the draft. A-Rod is clearly much more proven and is already the centerpiece of the offense. For that reason he's a franchise QB at least in my book.

MM made sense at the time. He's great with QBs and his work is done in GB. His playcalling and coaching decisions concerning the OL have been in question for a while, I think its time for a change. TT isn't married to MM. I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to make the switch.

Grant's contract is a reasonable one that the team can easily get away from although I agree that everyone thought he was a better player than he's been since holding out. A-Rod so far has been a steal. I like that TT is generous and fair with his guys. The Packers are always in cap heaven with TT. Financially he's done a very nice job.

[Partial]

I won't flame you for the QB controversy because I think you'll hear enough from everyone else. I will say that its going to take more than some JSO fluff pieces to give me a Flynn boner. I haven't seen him play but I agree he's already a good value from the draft. A-Rod is clearly much more proven and is already the centerpiece of the offense. For that reason he's a franchise QB at least in my book.


Grant's contract is a reasonable one that the team can easily get away from although I agree that everyone thought he was a better player than he's been since holding out. A-Rod so far has been a steal. I like that TT is generous and fair with his guys. The Packers are always in cap heaven with TT. Financially he's done a very nice job.

What has Aaron proved beyond showing some toughness this year and putting up nice yardage numbers with a very, very poor win-loss record? I'm legitimately curious and asking.

He has been a tough guy this year but that only gets you so far. At some point, you've got to elevate your team. Not necessarily fair, but its life as a QB. Play fullback if you can't handle it is my philosophy.

Rodgers has shown that he has the physical toolset to be an effective passer in the NFL. Flynn has not. That doesn't get you much though, until you become an effective winner. Flynn hasn't done this either. He is ahead of Flynn in that regard but again, what does this get you?

He's done an okay job because he's had only rookie contracts the past few years. They aren't going to have nearly as much cap room after this summer, for example, if they keep the two OLmen, Collins, Bigby, Kampman, Jolly, Chillar, TWill (I believe he is on a one year deal right now and becomes restricted now, not sure though) among others that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

It's not hard to be under the cap when you're a bad team. I'm not saying he's doing a bad job, I'm saying we don't have enough information to know how he is. I know that I would rather have the players the Vike's have and have their cap situation than have the players we do and ours. Again, not sure what that gets you, though.

[bobblehead]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

[Waldo]

He overpaid and overvalued Ryan Grant big time. He overpaid for Rodgers at the time, but with QBs the cost is just gonna keep going up, so I guess it will look reasonable in a year or two.

I disagree with both of these sentiments completely.

Grant's contract can be looked at as a stopgap RB contract for a man expected to fully carry the load during that time. He isn't paid like a superstar, but he is paid fair for a 300+ carry/yr back that essentially touches the ball 30-40% of all plays. But he has no big bonus guarantee and the team has to reaffirm it each year after FA opens (with a roster bonus). We can easily dump him at any time. Thinking that you can pay him several million less because his average is 0.5 YPC subpar is simply foolish. That isn't how the NFL pay structure works. A guy gets paid for the work he does, and Grant carries 300+ times a season. Only a select few elite players get paid above the usual "starter" pay scale. Grant is not a RBBC back with us, we should expect to have to pay him more. But he is not paid "elite" money by any means.

Rodgers contract quite frankly is absurdly cheap for being early in a long term 2nd contract. The next deal is always bigger than the last in the NFL, average guys get this year what elite guys got last year. Rodgers gets peanuts compared to Cutler, Rivers, an E Manning.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He overpaid and overvalued Ryan Grant big time. He overpaid for Rodgers at the time, but with QBs the cost is just gonna keep going up, so I guess it will look reasonable in a year or two.

I disagree with both of these sentiments completely.

Grant's contract can be looked at as a stopgap RB contract for a man expected to fully carry the load during that time. He isn't paid like a superstar, but he is paid fair for a 300+ carry/yr back that essentially touches the ball 30-40% of all plays. But he has no big bonus guarantee and the team has to reaffirm it each year after FA opens (with a roster bonus). We can easily dump him at any time. Thinking that you can pay him several million less because his average is 0.5 YPC subpar is simply foolish. That isn't how the NFL pay structure works. A guy gets paid for the work he does, and Grant carries 300+ times a season. Only a select few elite players get paid above the usual "starter" pay scale. Grant is not a RBBC back with us, we should expect to have to pay him more. But he is not paid "elite" money by any means.

Rodgers contract quite frankly is absurdly cheap for being early in a long term 2nd contract. The next deal is always bigger than the last in the NFL, average guys get this year what elite guys got last year. Rodgers gets peanuts compared to Cutler, Rivers, an E Manning.

Ty was going to start a thread about Arod's contract. While some may have thought Arod got paid too much and too early, compared to other young QBs...regardless of what Arod's critic's say...it is an absurd value.

As for Grant, many on this board were killing TT for sticking to his guns. They wanted him signed. Including MANY of the critics. Ty was not one of them. Ty thought Grant was a flash in the pan, another Terdell Middleton. Ty firmly believes that most, not all, good backs are found earlier in the draft..and that Grant was serviceable. His career was what it was prior to us for a reason.

You weren't on this board yet, waldo..maybe you were and ty doesn't remember, but there were people here that thought he was equal if not better than AD. Kid you not. People that actually prefered Grant...for whatever reason..salary cost, etc. :lol:

I had a bunch of posts here..but, it was so long and so classic, ty is gonna start another thread.

[Scott Campbell]

I won't flame you for the QB controversy because I think you'll hear enough from everyone else. I will say that its going to take more than some JSO fluff pieces to give me a Flynn boner. I haven't seen him play but I agree he's already a good value from the draft. A-Rod is clearly much more proven and is already the centerpiece of the offense. For that reason he's a franchise QB at least in my book.


Grant's contract is a reasonable one that the team can easily get away from although I agree that everyone thought he was a better player than he's been since holding out. A-Rod so far has been a steal. I like that TT is generous and fair with his guys. The Packers are always in cap heaven with TT. Financially he's done a very nice job.

What has Aaron proved beyond showing some toughness this year and putting up nice yardage numbers with a very, very poor win-loss record? I'm legitimately curious and asking.

He has been a tough guy this year but that only gets you so far. At some point, you've got to elevate your team. Not necessarily fair, but its life as a QB. Play fullback if you can't handle it is my philosophy.

Rodgers has shown that he has the physical toolset to be an effective passer in the NFL. Flynn has not. That doesn't get you much though, until you become an effective winner. Flynn hasn't done this either. He is ahead of Flynn in that regard but again, what does this get you?

He's done an okay job because he's had only rookie contracts the past few years. They aren't going to have nearly as much cap room after this summer, for example, if they keep the two OLmen, Collins, Bigby, Kampman, Jolly, Chillar, TWill (I believe he is on a one year deal right now and becomes restricted now, not sure though) among others that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

It's not hard to be under the cap when you're a bad team. I'm not saying he's doing a bad job, I'm saying we don't have enough information to know how he is. I know that I would rather have the players the Vike's have and have their cap situation than have the players we do and ours. Again, not sure what that gets you, though.



In retrospect I'd rather have the players the Saints have. Or Indy. In retrospect.

[Fritz]

And what if a monkey came flying out of TT's butt?

Actually, I don't think 10-6 is impossible. I believe we have the talent for even better. There is a chance that the team rallies around themselves and the coaches and they pull this season out.

I don't think that is very likely, however.

.

Then I would say "Monkey, can you coach?"

[3irty1]

I won't flame you for the QB controversy because I think you'll hear enough from everyone else. I will say that its going to take more than some JSO fluff pieces to give me a Flynn boner. I haven't seen him play but I agree he's already a good value from the draft. A-Rod is clearly much more proven and is already the centerpiece of the offense. For that reason he's a franchise QB at least in my book.


Grant's contract is a reasonable one that the team can easily get away from although I agree that everyone thought he was a better player than he's been since holding out. A-Rod so far has been a steal. I like that TT is generous and fair with his guys. The Packers are always in cap heaven with TT. Financially he's done a very nice job.

What has Aaron proved beyond showing some toughness this year and putting up nice yardage numbers with a very, very poor win-loss record? I'm legitimately curious and asking.

He has been a tough guy this year but that only gets you so far. At some point, you've got to elevate your team. Not necessarily fair, but its life as a QB. Play fullback if you can't handle it is my philosophy.

Rodgers has shown that he has the physical toolset to be an effective passer in the NFL. Flynn has not. That doesn't get you much though, until you become an effective winner. Flynn hasn't done this either. He is ahead of Flynn in that regard but again, what does this get you?

He's done an okay job because he's had only rookie contracts the past few years. They aren't going to have nearly as much cap room after this summer, for example, if they keep the two OLmen, Collins, Bigby, Kampman, Jolly, Chillar, TWill (I believe he is on a one year deal right now and becomes restricted now, not sure though) among others that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

It's not hard to be under the cap when you're a bad team. I'm not saying he's doing a bad job, I'm saying we don't have enough information to know how he is. I know that I would rather have the players the Vike's have and have their cap situation than have the players we do and ours. Again, not sure what that gets you, though.

If his W/L record is still shitty after 5 years then I might feel the way you do. Given the story of last year of an underachieving defense plus just plain rotten luck and the story this year of a putrid OL, I don't think a year and a half of samples is enough to diagnose A-Rod with loser-itis.

All the players going FA this year helps make the point. We are well prepared for an uncapped season should it happen.

I'm not sure I'd switch rosters with the Vikes. They are pretty stacked this year but you think OUR window is closing?

My point was that Thompson hasn't had a cap casualty of a guy we can't replace since he's started. Yeah it helps to be the youngest team in the league but no matter what we're in a position to extend any guys who actually improve or we can sign Reggie White the next time he's available.

[Partial]

I think our window slammed shut after 2007. I think they're rebuilding again.

[mission]

I think our window slammed shut after 2007. I think they're rebuilding again.

You have a very bi-polar view about all this ... are you saying Flynn could be like an Orton (+ mobility) and not nearly as physically talented as AR... just a winner?

I would buy the AR argument if not for the fact that the team as a whole has been underperforming. There's too many 'other things' going on during games that happens when AR isn't even on the field... ST gaffes, retarded 4 man collisions on defense, penalties ...

It seems to me like we're playing like a 4-12 team with 10-6 talent (not 14-2 talent yet) and the blame of that can be shared but when the TEAM itself ain't running on all cylinders, you'll find very few examples when the QB is singlehandedly compensating for so much ineptness around him.

Now all of this doesn't mean Flynn can't turn out to be a beast. Who knows... but it wouldn't take away from AR at all. We'd get a ton for him in a trade if that ever happened and it'd be FavreGate Part Deux for sure.

[Tony Oday]

Wow this is kind of funny how we are piling on AR here...REALLY? 3/4 of the teams would love him as a QB. There is no QB controvesey at all nor will there be unless AR gets hurt.

His O line is bad...but IMO you do not build an O line through FA you build them through the draft and the keep them at the same position for 2-3 years so they build that chemistry...if I was MM I would make sure the guys on the line LIVE together! :)

We have the talent to go 6-2 the rest of the year. We need a pass rush and to keep AR clean...do those two things and not get a crap penalty against us to keep a 4th quarter drive alive (Hawks "holding" penalty against the Bucs, though it should never have been that close) we can do it.

[sharpe1027]

Partial reads an article about player X (e.g., looking good in practice). Partial stretches of this little kernel of information into a position that will elicit a ton of responses (e.g., player X is better than player Y). Partial defends the position without any compromise. Partial complains about getting "flamed" and how everyone is against him. Week to week, day to day, Partial takes any opportunity to post anything that Partial believes to support any of the many controversial positions and to tell everyone else just how right Partial was.

If nothing else, it keeps the post counts high. Keep up the good fight Partial. I might just sit this one out.

[denverYooper]

Wow this is kind of funny how we are piling on AR here...REALLY?

http://www.owlpages.com/the-owls/pictures/orly_owl.jpg

[Spaulding]

I'm going to sound like the asshole here but I don't think MM is the answer regardless of what happens with the season and I don't want him hanging around another year no matter what.

What if the players take it upon themselves to step and actually play close to their ability? Is that because MM deserves his job? Unfortunately, that will be how it looks ...

I don't know ... I'll ALWAYS root for the Packers to win every game no matter what. I'm not *that* guy, but I don't want the truth to be clouded by temporary elation if we finish this season strong.



Are you adding yourself to a group like the TT "haters" that want the packers to do bad so he leaves? It sure sounds like it....... :oops:

I'm in the fire MM immediately and give TT one more year boat... I'm not nearly as supportive of TT as I have been in the past -- especially after some of his bonehead cuts look in retrospect -- but I firmly believe there's 10-6 / 11-5 talent on this team. They're just underperforming.

I don't think we have a roster as good as Minnesota's due to our inability to pull a big trigger, but maybe this season will be a wakeup call and we'll be a little more aggressive in the offseason (unlikely, I know).

TT hasn't assembled the best team in football, but I'd like a chance to at least see what this teams actual potential is before deciding it's not talented enough to compete. Those bodies on the line aren't a 6 sack a game offensive line... there's a lot of 'retardedness' going on and it starts with MM. His shit job just helps some of the shit flow up hill to TT ...


Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

[Smidgeon]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

[Spaulding]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Dead on. Not sure if he has some others in mind for HC from his prior days with Seattle or as a player but I'd hope it wouldn't be a retread.

Not enamored with Shanahan, Bilick, Gruden or even Holmgren. I'd be fine with Cowher as I love his fire but I thought rumor were he wanted to stick close to North Carolina and/or also have some GM say.

My ideal coach would be the planning/tactician of Bilicheat, the fire of Cowher and press conference skills of Denny Green/Jim Mora :)

[Partial]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Martyball.

[outflow]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

[bobblehead]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

You asked for reasoning, not Packer specific reasoning...quit changing the parameters midway please.

Ok, Packer reasons we can turn it around.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.
2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.
3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.
4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.
5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.
6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

[mraynrand]

The next two games have to be won to make the playoffs. NFC games, at home, against possible wild card competitors. Even winning 1 will not be enough. They have to find a way to win or it's over.

[Packers4Ever]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?

I'd say that the Packer coach's and players really turned it around. As a fan that's what I expect to happen and 8-8 doesn't cut it. The GM supplies the players. If their inadequate then MM has to ask for more and TT has to do something to get fresh talent onboard. It's game to game when your half way through the schedule and 4-4.

I just cannot get into this attitude of ....''we'll wait till seasons end and then re-assess the whole thing''. We have to beat Dallas at home this week. No. . . if's, and's or but's about it. If we don't as fans we should be looking for some real changes.

No more of this lolly dogging attitude.


Uhh, I think you mean lollygagging attitude, don't you, Woody ? :P

[outflow]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

You asked for reasoning, not Packer specific reasoning...quit changing the parameters midway please.

Ok, Packer reasons we can turn it around.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.
2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.
3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.
4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.
5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.
6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

Quit being silly. Of course I am talking about specific 09-10 Green Bay Packer reasoning.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.

Just because the running game may become more successful doesn't mean McCarthy will know how to exploit that in an offensive gameplan. Also, if the Green Bay keeps spotting 14 pts to start the game, all the running game in the world isn't going to help.

2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.

I will give you Mathews, but Raji to this point just looks like another body. He may grow to be good, but for the next 8 games I doubt he will be a playmaker.

3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.

Theoretically, yes. However, if the offensive line doesn't block and Rogers doesn't snap out of this funk, these two won't make any difference.

4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.

Wow, you give this coaching staff alot of credit. This only works if the Packers improve greater than their opponents. In other words I can say that the opponents are also improving and their coaching staffs are also utiilizing their players better.

5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.

A rookie is going to save this offensive line? :lol:

6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Why not? It's been going on this long. McCarthy's tendency to overlook the small things is a major knock against him. I have no faith in his ability to clean up the special teams or penalities.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

It's the PRESEASON! So what if you can hit a home run on the big play. Unless you sustain drives and play sound football, that big play will only win you a possible 1 or 2 games.

[ThunderDan]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

[MJZiggy]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.

[outflow]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

[pbmax]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Martyball.
OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

[Bretsky]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.



Me thinks we'd have to go through two coaches and a decade of losing seasons before you and JH would see fault in TT :wink:

But the idea that you are starting to ponder it creates hope that some day you might ask TTT to actively participate in free agency like he did in year one of his reign :lol:

[Spaulding]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.



Me thinks we'd have to go through two coaches and a decade of losing seasons before you and JH would see fault in TT :wink:

But the idea that you are starting to ponder it creates hope that some day you might ask TTT to actively participate in free agency like he did in year one of his reign :lol:

Bretsky,it's not just about FA activity, most of the time those actions back fire. I can think of quite a few more Joe Johnson, LaVar Arrington, Fred Smoot, etc. FA busts than I can of Jared Allen or Woodson.

Although I'd like to see him more active in FA and make the off season a little more exciting/hopeful, I still think he's put enough talent into offensive lineman since his debacle in 2005 with Klemm and O'Dwyer that it's Campen/McCarthy for not coaching it up or figuring out a way to implement the quick hitting slant or screens more often.

They are basically setting up the line for failure. Either that or AR is calling audibles away from those types of plays. If that's the case it's on him and his tendency to hold the ball too long which is contributing to the line looking shoddy. And if that is truly the case, why McCarthy doesn't set him down and law down the law is beyond me. Then again this is all speculation.

[bobblehead]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

[mraynrand]

So what if you can hit a home run on the big play. Unless you sustain drives and play sound football, that big play will only win you a possible 1 or 2 games.

I'd like to see that big play that wins two games. :) Still, if you suggest that 'the big play' can win one or two games, perhaps it will win the one or two games to take the Packers from 8-8- to 10-6 and maybe the playoffs.

[MichiganPackerFan]

One thing that I'm curious about is over the last decade or more, if you take the unrestricted free agents who garnered the top five or ten highest contracts each season, how did they perform over the life of that contract? I'm curious what the FAB% is? (Free Agent Bust!!!)

[MJZiggy]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.



Me thinks we'd have to go through two coaches and a decade of losing seasons before you and JH would see fault in TT :wink:

But the idea that you are starting to ponder it creates hope that some day you might ask TTT to actively participate in free agency like he did in year one of his reign :lol:

Bretsky,it's not just about FA activity, most of the time those actions back fire. I can think of quite a few more Joe Johnson, LaVar Arrington, Fred Smoot, etc. FA busts than I can of Jared Allen or Woodson.

Although I'd like to see him more active in FA and make the off season a little more exciting/hopeful, I still think he's put enough talent into offensive lineman since his debacle in 2005 with Klemm and O'Dwyer that it's Campen/McCarthy for not coaching it up or figuring out a way to implement the quick hitting slant or screens more often.

They are basically setting up the line for failure. Either that or AR is calling audibles away from those types of plays. If that's the case it's on him and his tendency to hold the ball too long which is contributing to the line looking shoddy. And if that is truly the case, why McCarthy doesn't set him down and law down the law is beyond me. Then again this is all speculation.

I was speaking to coaching in my post. Like I said, when you see flashes from the players, that means that the talent and ability is there. It's the coach's job to turn the flashes into reliability. If this team pulls itself together then the question is did the coaching take effect, or is the discipline player-motivated, because it sure hasn't been self-motivated so far.

[Partial]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Martyball.
OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

He's the guy I want coaching our team to turn our boys into men. He is my favorite coach in the NFL. I think he was given a horrible deal in SD but if all that shit with his bro and slapping the owner in the face like that I guess it was pretty disrespectful.

[pbmax]

Martyball.
OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

He's the guy I want coaching our team to turn our boys into men. He is my favorite coach in the NFL. I think he was given a horrible deal in SD but if all that shit with his bro and slapping the owner in the face like that I guess it was pretty disrespectful.
Marty wanted to hire his brother as his new D coordinator after he lost Phillips to the Cowboys. This is the same Kurt who we have fired twice as safeties coach.

Marty, unlike a lot of established coaches will take a young team and mold it. But he wants final say on the roster as he will only accept players who do it his way.

And Marty's way is running the football on offense. No matter how many times in a low scoring and close game his offense cannot deliver. He accepted a West Coast offense with Hackett and McCarthy for Joe Montana in KC, but with lesser QBs, he relied on the run more and more.

Marty also has a tendency to burn his team's out. He has had several notable playoff failures despite in several years being the best team in a conference. His training camp's are as old school as is possible these days. I think he was running the Oklahoma drill in Washington the year he was there. I think he is retired for good now.

[mraynrand]

Martyball.
OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

He's the guy I want coaching our team to turn our boys into men. He is my favorite coach in the NFL. I think he was given a horrible deal in SD but if all that shit with his bro and slapping the owner in the face like that I guess it was pretty disrespectful.
Marty wanted to hire his brother as his new D coordinator after he lost Phillips to the Cowboys. This is the same Kurt who we have fired twice as safeties coach.

Marty, unlike a lot of established coaches will take a young team and mold it. But he wants final say on the roster as he will only accept players who do it his way.

And Marty's way is running the football on offense. No matter how many times in a low scoring and close game his offense cannot deliver. He accepted a West Coast offense with Hackett and McCarthy for Joe Montana in KC, but with lesser QBs, he relied on the run more and more.

Marty also has a tendency to burn his team's out. He has had several notable playoff failures despite in several years being the best team in a conference. His training camp's are as old school as is possible these days. I think he was running the Oklahoma drill in Washington the year he was there. I think he is retired for good now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIrbAwbCMQ0

[outflow]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

So let me get this straight, you don't think its going to happen yet you like to be optimistic and want hope? :lol: Shame on me I don't want to take your hope away!

I will tell you again it is not possible with this team. The only "reasoning" you can give me is that other teams in the past have done it so surely these Packers can. And let me guess the Lions can finish to 8-8 because that Forest Gregg team did? :lol:

[SnakeLH2006]

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

Ty doesn't do that.... :roll:

It's possible we got 6-10 again...I doubt it. I also doubt we go 10-6. Packers have not beat anyone good...yet I picked them to beat Dallas in my pick 'em pool this week. I have no shame. We definitely have the talent. But Arod needs to stop the sacks and throw it away (that's possible). McFatty needs to man up and coach (doubt that at all lately). But, this is all on Mike. What happened to McFatty? I thought he was the bad-ass hard-line dude that was gonna coach this team to playoffs yearly. Watch his show...watch his mannerisms. Dude is soft as hell. Either way. Get rid of his clown fake-ass shit no matter what happens here on out. He's proven he's not a good leader by any stretch through play-calling/penalties/Arod holding the ball.

He's terrible. It's like watching the Bucks a few years ago under Terry Stotts. Sad. No leadership at all.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

Listen up dipshit. If you are arguing with Outflow there is no reason to bring up my name.

Show me ONCE in a thread about FOOTBALL where i've changed the debate.

Ty could say the very same thing about you...and your ridiculous theories on MM and his marriage that you continue to throw out there with NO evidence whatsoever.

And, your ridiculous successful coaches aren't married...which you then HEDGED on completely.

Show a little bit of class. There is no reason to mention my name in your little tiff.

I'll wait for your apology. If you are man enough.

[bobblehead]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

Listen up dipshit. If you are arguing with Outflow there is no reason to bring up my name.

Show me ONCE in a thread about FOOTBALL where i've changed the debate.

Ty could say the very same thing about you...and your ridiculous theories on MM and his marriage that you continue to throw out there with NO evidence whatsoever.

And, your ridiculous successful coaches aren't married...which you then HEDGED on completely.

Show a little bit of class. There is no reason to mention my name in your little tiff.

I'll wait for your apology. If you are man enough.

Ty, you certainly don't do it in football posts other than maybe the cedric benson thread way back when. Many posters will agree that you do it constantly in the FYI, but I meant no disrespect by bringing your name into this. I did so as an example of you what you like to do in political debates, and you do, like it or not.

You say I hedged, I say I clarified...immediately no less, but you continued to mischaracterize what I said.

Between the two of us I'm the only one who has ever admitted to being wrong no matter how wrong you get proven at times. Like outflow here, you like to take way out there positions and then use debate skills to defend them at times (mostly in FYI). Since I almost never disagree with you on football it doesn't happen here much if at all.

If you want an apology for me citing what you most certainly do do (and anyone who posts in FYI can attest to it) you won't get it. If you want me to apologize for needlessly bringing up your name, ok, sorry about that bud, thought you had thicker skin than that, my bad.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

Listen up dipshit. If you are arguing with Outflow there is no reason to bring up my name.

Show me ONCE in a thread about FOOTBALL where i've changed the debate.

Ty could say the very same thing about you...and your ridiculous theories on MM and his marriage that you continue to throw out there with NO evidence whatsoever.

And, your ridiculous successful coaches aren't married...which you then HEDGED on completely.

Show a little bit of class. There is no reason to mention my name in your little tiff.

I'll wait for your apology. If you are man enough.

Ty, you certainly don't do it in football posts other than maybe the cedric benson thread way back when. Many posters will agree that you do it constantly in the FYI, but I meant no disrespect by bringing your name into this. I did so as an example of you what you like to do in political debates, and you do, like it or not.

You say I hedged, I say I clarified...immediately no less, but you continued to mischaracterize what I said.

Between the two of us I'm the only one who has ever admitted to being wrong no matter how wrong you get proven at times. Like outflow here, you like to take way out there positions and then use debate skills to defend them at times (mostly in FYI). Since I almost never disagree with you on football it doesn't happen here much if at all.

If you want an apology for me citing what you most certainly do do (and anyone who posts in FYI can attest to it) you won't get it. If you want me to apologize for needlessly bringing up your name, ok, sorry about that bud, thought you had thicker skin than that, my bad.

1. Many posters. Translation: Conservative posters.
2. Clarified. Translation: Changed the debate. When Ty does it, it is changing the debate, when bobble does it...it is clarifying.

And, i certainly didn't mischaracterize.

3. Positions. Sorry, but you are wrong. I don't "take" anything. I believe what i write.
4. Apology. I'll accept your meager mea culpa. How about whenever someone makes a ridiculous assertion without any basis i just call it bobbling?

Once again, the man who claims superior values has been shown to lack in basic values.

[Fritz]

If this team finishes 10-6 and wins a playoff game, there will be hope for next year.

[denverYooper]

If this team finishes 10-6 and wins a playoff game, there will be hope for next year.

Agree, especially since they'll have to get some quality wins to hit 10-6.

[pbmax]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

[retailguy]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

I've been looking for my kool-aid. I knew I'd find it. Hand it over! :evil:

[MJZiggy]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

I've been looking for my kool-aid. I knew I'd find it. Hand it over! :evil:

Just make sure when he gives it to you, it's not grape...

[Fritz]

It'd be easier to get on the optimism train if this team had given any indication it was improving.

That's my problem. They've gotten worse, not better, as the season has gone on. And now they're playing a team with a dynamo pass rush and a balanced offense?

I hope they win. But I'm down to hope.

Now, if they improve on special teams, defensive pass rush, and offensive line protection yet still lose today, then I'll be more optimistic next week. But when is this improvement finally going to begin? And when or if it happens, will it be too late?

[bobblehead]

How about whenever someone makes a ridiculous assertion without any basis i just call it bobbling?

Once again, the man who claims superior values has been shown to lack in basic values.

Ty, I never said you make the ridiculous assertions. I did apologize for bringing your name into it. I honestly thought you were thick skinned and it wouldn't bother you, now that I know better it won't happen again.

All I was saying is that if you start losing a debate you like to shift it to any little minutia on the topic and try to debate a different point. Hell, I'm not even criticizing, its a legit strategy (for debate, not for trying to get to the truth). Personally if I get proven wrong I reassess my position. Like now, I was wrong to involve your name, I meant it as good natured ribbing. You certainly have taken enough shots at me over the years that I thought it was no big deal, but again...won't happen again. Now I'm going to drop it as 2 apologies on the same subject is all I'm giving.

[pbmax]

It'd be easier to get on the optimism train if this team had given any indication it was improving.

That's my problem. They've gotten worse, not better, as the season has gone on. And now they're playing a team with a dynamo pass rush and a balanced offense?

I hope they win. But I'm down to hope.

Now, if they improve on special teams, defensive pass rush, and offensive line protection yet still lose today, then I'll be more optimistic next week. But when is this improvement finally going to begin? And when or if it happens, will it be too late?
Fewer penalties versus Tampa. 5 for 35. After 6-45 versus Vikes, we will be at 0 penalties per game by Week 14.

[Tony Oday]

We are coming!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How about whenever someone makes a ridiculous assertion without any basis i just call it bobbling?

Once again, the man who claims superior values has been shown to lack in basic values.

Ty, I never said you make the ridiculous assertions. I did apologize for bringing your name into it. I honestly thought you were thick skinned and it wouldn't bother you, now that I know better it won't happen again.

All I was saying is that if you start losing a debate you like to shift it to any little minutia on the topic and try to debate a different point. Hell, I'm not even criticizing, its a legit strategy (for debate, not for trying to get to the truth). Personally if I get proven wrong I reassess my position. Like now, I was wrong to involve your name, I meant it as good natured ribbing. You certainly have taken enough shots at me over the years that I thought it was no big deal, but again...won't happen again. Now I'm going to drop it as 2 apologies on the same subject is all I'm giving.

Again, you make a claim that has no validity. Ty doesn't shift once i'm losing a debate...again, that is YOUR view. Your view of when someone is winning or losing.

And, you make it out like it is some sort of decision. All of which is blatantly false.

If you meant it as good natured ribbing..you should have done it with me. And, the tone that you displayed in your post to Outflow didn't seem good natured at all. Perhaps you might reevaluate how you sound to others when you start a post by calling them idiots, etc.

Lastly, i don't take shots at you in the packer forum. And, when i do make a veiled comment, it is in direct response to your post.

Ty doesn't argue with someone on this forum and then take a "shot" at you in the course of that discussion. Find ONE example and I will gladly reassess my thoughts.

Ty will accept your apology.

P.S. I thought you were 100 right in your thoughts regarding the pack and outflow.

[bobblehead]

I didn't call him an idiot until he made himself out to be an idiot. My tone wasn't respectful at that point because I answered him directly twice and he played the "doesn't count" game with me. He could have just said I disagree, we'll see at the end of the season.

Yes, i took a jab at you as we spar in FYI, meant no offense believe it or not. Apologized twice, thats my limit, done with topic.

[get louder at lambeau]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Care to revise this one, one week later, Partial?

[Partial]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Care to revise this one, one week later, Partial?

We'll see. They're 5-4 right now. They have to win 3 more games against a tough schedule. The only for sure win should be against Detroit. Possibly Chicago, but I have a hard time imagining that Lovie won't have the troops fired up for that one.

[PackerTimer]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Care to revise this one, one week later, Partial?

We'll see. They're 5-4 right now. They have to win 3 more games against a tough schedule. The only for sure win should be against Detroit. Possibly Chicago, but I have a hard time imagining that Lovie won't have the troops fired up for that one.

You could probably add Seattle at home too.

But I agree with you. As much as I am happy with the win, it's not an easy road to end the season and they still have to protect better and stop those damn penalties. At this point in the season, I'm not really confident we'll see either. Hopeful but not confident.

[AtlPackFan]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

I've been looking for my kool-aid. I knew I'd find it. Hand it over! :evil:

:mrgreen:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Care to revise this one, one week later, Partial?

We'll see. They're 5-4 right now. They have to win 3 more games against a tough schedule. The only for sure win should be against Detroit. Possibly Chicago, but I have a hard time imagining that Lovie won't have the troops fired up for that one.

apparently you don't even undestand what you wrote. Is 5-11 more likely than 8-8? Nope.

[pbmax]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

I've been looking for my kool-aid. I knew I'd find it. Hand it over! :evil:
Plenty of Kool-Aid for everyone. Except if you had a false start penalty at Lambeau Sunday. then you get nothing and like it.

1 down, 7 to go.

[pbmax]

It'd be easier to get on the optimism train if this team had given any indication it was improving.

That's my problem. They've gotten worse, not better, as the season has gone on. And now they're playing a team with a dynamo pass rush and a balanced offense?

I hope they win. But I'm down to hope.

Now, if they improve on special teams, defensive pass rush, and offensive line protection yet still lose today, then I'll be more optimistic next week. But when is this improvement finally going to begin? And when or if it happens, will it be too late?
Fewer penalties versus Tampa. 5 for 35. After 6-45 versus Vikes, we will be at 0 penalties per game by Week 14.
I'm going to need to fix this. No excuses.

[Partial]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Care to revise this one, one week later, Partial?

We'll see. They're 5-4 right now. They have to win 3 more games against a tough schedule. The only for sure win should be against Detroit. Possibly Chicago, but I have a hard time imagining that Lovie won't have the troops fired up for that one.

apparently you don't even undestand what you wrote. Is 5-11 more likely than 8-8? Nope.

Admittedly this is an overreaction, but I'm still not completely confident they clear 500.

[gbgary]

What if this team goes 10-6?

i'll still want to see mm's head on the chopping block. enough's enough. he's the weakest link.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Care to revise this one, one week later, Partial?

We'll see. They're 5-4 right now. They have to win 3 more games against a tough schedule. The only for sure win should be against Detroit. Possibly Chicago, but I have a hard time imagining that Lovie won't have the troops fired up for that one.

apparently you don't even undestand what you wrote. Is 5-11 more likely than 8-8? Nope.

Admittedly this is an overreaction, but I'm still not completely confident they clear 500.

Perhaps you might work on not posting overreactions. They only make you look stupid.

[ThunderDan]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Bump.

Well, we have 6 wins now.

I will give Partial this, after lossing to TB things looked bad.

I said before the TB game the Dallas and SF weeks were going to be huge.

[Partial]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Bump.

Well, we have 6 wins now.

I will give Partial this, after lossing to TB things looked bad.

I said before the TB game the Dallas and SF weeks were going to be huge.

As said, this was an overreaction. Bush league stunt, btw, but I can't say I would expect anything less out of you TD. That said, we're not out of the woods yet... no guarantees on anything.

[Scott Campbell]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Bump.

Well, we have 6 wins now.

I will give Partial this, after lossing to TB things looked bad.

I said before the TB game the Dallas and SF weeks were going to be huge.

As said, this was an overreaction. Bush league stunt, btw, but I can't say I would expect anything less out of you TD. That said, we're not out of the woods yet... no guarantees on anything.


I can guarantee they're not going 5-11. :lol:

[ThunderDan]

As said, this was an overreaction. Bush league stunt, btw, but I can't say I would expect anything less out of you TD. That said, we're not out of the woods yet... no guarantees on anything.

Why? Because you made another over the top statement and are getting called out on it? Hmmm....

[Scott Campbell]

Confucius say troll who not man enough to read own words should think twice before posting them.

Or sumthin.

[MOBB DEEP]

7-4 sounds sweet right about now no?

[Partial]

As said, this was an overreaction. Bush league stunt, btw, but I can't say I would expect anything less out of you TD. That said, we're not out of the woods yet... no guarantees on anything.

Why? Because you made another over the top statement and are getting called out on it? Hmmm....

Pretty sad when you get your jolly's by stroking your digital dick on a message board. Is the season over? Talk to me when it is. They're not a guarantee to finish above 500 by any means..

You didn't even make a prediction (ulness I missed it). Calling someone out for going for glory while you're sitting on the sidelines makes you a giant dbag. Sorry guy, but it does.

[ThunderDan]

As said, this was an overreaction. Bush league stunt, btw, but I can't say I would expect anything less out of you TD. That said, we're not out of the woods yet... no guarantees on anything.

Why? Because you made another over the top statement and are getting called out on it? Hmmm....

Pretty sad when you get your jolly's by stroking your digital dick on a message board. Is the season over? Talk to me when it is. They're not a guarantee to finish above 500 by any means..

You didn't even make a prediction (ulness I missed it). Calling someone out for going for glory while you're sitting on the sidelines makes you a giant dbag. Sorry guy, but it does.

And you have never bumped a thread???

I thought you were a positive poster; both highlighted portions tend to show why you get in flame wars.

My predictions are all over this site.

12-4 preseason
10-6/11-5 after today

I thought we would split with Minn and beat TB.

[Scott Campbell]

Pretty sad when you get your jolly's by stroking your digital dick on a message board.


If bumping your threads is equivalent to virtual masturbation there's a lot of us who should be blind and have hairy palms.

[pbmax]

2 down, 6 to go.

6 penalties for 60 some yards, one bad coverage team play. No turnovers.

1 delay of game
1 running into the kicker (declined)
1 Intentional Grounding
1 Block Below the Waist (Special Teams)
1 Holding (Wells)
1 Facemask (Underwood)
1 Holding (Special Teams-Martin)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

Bump.

Well, we have 6 wins now.

I will give Partial this, after lossing to TB things looked bad.

I said before the TB game the Dallas and SF weeks were going to be huge.

As said, this was an overreaction. Bush league stunt, btw, but I can't say I would expect anything less out of you TD. That said, we're not out of the woods yet... no guarantees on anything.

You are calling out someone for bumping a thread? LOL

Pot, meet kettle.

[Zool]

Pretty sad when you get your jolly's by stroking your digital dick on a message board. Is the season over? Talk to me when it is. They're not a guarantee to finish above 500 by any means..

You didn't even make a prediction (ulness I missed it). Calling someone out for going for glory while you're sitting on the sidelines makes you a giant dbag. Sorry guy, but it does.

I've been trying to leave you alone lately but this post....i just can't. You talk about him "stroking digital dick" and then say that you are "going for glory".

If you want people to stop thinking you're an asshole, you have to stop acting like one. If you don't care what people think about you, then you have to stop reacting like this. You can't have it all man.

[pbmax]

Not bumping to razz anyone, but wanted to keep track of the improvement since this thread was made.

Packers 3 wins down, 5 to go.

Penalties: 7-57

Roughing the Passer (Matthews horrible call esp. since they missed the late hit on Rodgers later this half)
Illegal Block Above Waist (Q Johnson)
Illegal Block Above Waist (Bigby-this was idiotic, he hit him illegally and the guy still nearly made the play)
Unnecessary Roughness (Poppinga)
Face Mask (Wood)
False Start (Colledge)
Delay of Game (Kapinos - intentional)

[TennesseePackerBacker]

There should be a lot of crow served up in this thread.

[Cheesehead Craig]

PB,
In respect to the penalties, it seems an inordinate number of them have been on special teams. I remember when the D would give up more illegal contact and holding then they have this season. I don't think we've had many holds on the OL either come to think of it.

Have you noticed the same or am I off?

[woodbuck27]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?

I'd say that the Packer coach's and players really turned it around. As a fan that's what I expect to happen and 8-8 doesn't cut it. The GM supplies the players. If their inadequate then MM has to ask for more and TT has to do something to get fresh talent onboard. It's game to game when your half way through the schedule and 4-4.

I just cannot get into this attitude of ....''we'll wait till seasons end and then re-assess the whole thing''. We have to beat Dallas at home this week. No. . . if's, and's or but's about it. If we don't as fans we should be looking for some real changes.

No more of this lolly dogging attitude.

After moving to 7W - 4L lets look at the remaining schedule:

Mon., Dec. 7 Baltimore Ravens . . . 7:30 p.m. ESPN
Sun., Dec. 13 @ Chicago Bears . . . 12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Dec. 20 @ Pittsburgh Steelers . . . 12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Dec. 27 Seattle Seahawks . . . 12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Jan. 3 @ Arizona Cardinals . . . 3:15 p.m. FOX

It looks to me as if our team is capable of winning at least three of these games which will give the Packers an excellent shot at the playoffs. The first big test will come on MNF Dec. 7, 2009 Vs the Ravens. That game is huge. We have to win that game and bring our record to 14W and 14L with Aaron Rodgers at QB and get that monkey off our backs.

GO PACKERS!

[The Shadow]

Three reasons for cheer :
1. Pack will be well-rested * prepared for Ravens
2. Home game
3. Ravens coming off huge emotional game versus Steelers

[woodbuck27]

Three reasons for cheer :
1. Pack will be well-rested * prepared for Ravens
2. Home game
3. Ravens coming off huge emotional game versus Steelers

also... the Packers are handling adversity and it's going to be tough for the Ravens to win this game (in Lambeau) on the road. It's also a must win for the Packers to continue momentum.

GO PACKERS!

[ThunderDan]

That game is huge. We have to win that game and bring our record to 14W and 14L with Aaron Rodgers at QB and get that monkey off our backs.

GO PACKERS!

What monkey???

That ARod isn't an above .500 starter isn't all his fault and I would guess his cummulative W-L isn't even thought about. I am sure ARod's only focus is we're 7-4 and have Baltimore this week!

[woodbuck27]

That game is huge. We have to win that game and bring our record to 14W and 14L with Aaron Rodgers at QB and get that monkey off our backs.

GO PACKERS!

What monkey???

That ARod isn't an above .500 starter isn't all his fault and I would guess his cummulative W-L isn't even thought about. I am sure ARod's only focus is we're 7-4 and have Baltimore this week!

Certainly. It's important that the Packers have more wins than loss's.

and . . . No! Aaron Rodgers only focus should be on getting the win. Nothing but the win really matters. Recently Donovan McNabb passed for 450 yards but the Eagles lost that game. The only stat that matters is ' the WIN '.

GO PACKERS!

[bobblehead]

I've had thoughts about bumping this thread, but I didn't want to jinx things. We are playing well right now, but I'm a realist and things could go bad still after losing Kampman and Harris.

[woodbuck27]

I've had thoughts about bumping this thread, but I didn't want to jinx things. We are playing well right now, but I'm a realist and things could go bad still after losing Kampman and Harris.

Handling adversity is simply a part of it and never an excuse.

[Packers4Ever]

What if we finished 4-12? We just lost to TB, I'm sorry but this season is over in my mind. Hopefully I'm wrong and we make alittle run like the Cardinals last season.


Brandon, there's an old song that goes "pick yourself up, dust yourself

off and start all over again." :wink:

[Packers4Ever]

I am now in the camp that thinks MM is a below average coach and that may be all he will ever amount to.

I think one area where M3 is a great coach is in developing young QBs. Since AR is exiting that range, I expect his impact with him is diminishing. But Flynn and Brohm, however, might still be reaping benefits that might lead to a good future trade. Likely? Unlikely? Who knows. But maybe M3 has run his course. Maybe.

You do know Brohm has left us, don't you?
Went to - - - darn can't think which one, not one of the 'biggies.'

[woodbuck27]

I am now in the camp that thinks MM is a below average coach and that may be all he will ever amount to.

I think one area where M3 is a great coach is in developing young QBs. Since AR is exiting that range, I expect his impact with him is diminishing. But Flynn and Brohm, however, might still be reaping benefits that might lead to a good future trade. Likely? Unlikely? Who knows. But maybe M3 has run his course. Maybe.

You do know Brohm has left us, don't you?
Went to - - - darn can't think which one, not one of the 'biggies.'

Brian Brohm is now a Buffalo Bill.

[pbmax]

After the Ravens game, 4 Wins Down, 4 to go.

Penalties:

Pass Interference (TWill) - 43
Holding (Clifton) - 10
Pass Interference (Wood) - 9
Offside (Matthews) - 5
False Start (Clifton) - 5
Holding (ST-Obiozor) - 10
Holding (Wells) - 10
Offside (Jolly) - 5 declined
Pass Interference (TWill) - 41
Holding (Tauscher) - 10
Pass Interference (TWill) - 22
Illegal Block (Jenkins) - 10

Total 11 enforced (12 called) for 175 yards

[bobblehead]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

You asked for reasoning, not Packer specific reasoning...quit changing the parameters midway please.

Ok, Packer reasons we can turn it around.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.
2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.
3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.
4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.
5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.
6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

Quit being silly. Of course I am talking about specific 09-10 Green Bay Packer reasoning.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.

Just because the running game may become more successful doesn't mean McCarthy will know how to exploit that in an offensive gameplan. Also, if the Green Bay keeps spotting 14 pts to start the game, all the running game in the world isn't going to help.

2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.

I will give you Mathews, but Raji to this point just looks like another body. He may grow to be good, but for the next 8 games I doubt he will be a playmaker.

3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.

Theoretically, yes. However, if the offensive line doesn't block and Rogers doesn't snap out of this funk, these two won't make any difference.

4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.

Wow, you give this coaching staff alot of credit. This only works if the Packers improve greater than their opponents. In other words I can say that the opponents are also improving and their coaching staffs are also utiilizing their players better.

5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.

A rookie is going to save this offensive line? :lol:

6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Why not? It's been going on this long. McCarthy's tendency to overlook the small things is a major knock against him. I have no faith in his ability to clean up the special teams or penalities.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

It's the PRESEASON! So what if you can hit a home run on the big play. Unless you sustain drives and play sound football, that big play will only win you a possible 1 or 2 games.

BOOMSHAKALAKAA!!! FACE!!!

OK, OK, we haven't gotten to 10-6 yet, and the wheels could still come off, but I would say the point has been made that you overstated your case. And I always enjoy being part of a monster quote chain.

[pbmax]

Bobble, c'mon. Can you tone that down a little? Just for some peace around here? Thanks.

[Brandon494]

What if we finished 4-12? We just lost to TB, I'm sorry but this season is over in my mind. Hopefully I'm wrong and we make alittle run like the Cardinals last season.


Brandon, there's an old song that goes "pick yourself up, dust yourself

off and start all over again." :wink:

haha don't even remember writing this. Must have been really down after the TB loss. Glad we are making alittle run though. :wink:

[MJZiggy]

There's enough in this thread to make me think twice about re-reading it.

[pbmax]

There's enough in this thread to make me think twice about re-reading it.
Yeah, I probably shouldn't bump it anymore. but I had made my all in prediction here and began drinking the kool-aid straight. Was trying to tie together cleaning up obvious mistakes and winning more games.

But even in this I was wrong. The defense has simply started to outperform the mistakes.

[gbgary]

very good shot at 10-6...dare i say even better? mm needs to keep their heads on straight. remind them there's a lot of work to be done. remind them that they did lose to tampa bay.

[Bossman641]

What if we finished 4-12? We just lost to TB, I'm sorry but this season is over in my mind. Hopefully I'm wrong and we make alittle run like the Cardinals last season.


Brandon, there's an old song that goes "pick yourself up, dust yourself

off and start all over again." :wink:

haha don't even remember writing this. Must have been really down after the TB loss. Glad we are making alittle run though. :wink:

Brandon I love your enthusiasm but you might be the most bi-polar poster on this board. One play you are booking SB tickets, the next you are on a suicide watch.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

You asked for reasoning, not Packer specific reasoning...quit changing the parameters midway please.

Ok, Packer reasons we can turn it around.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.
2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.
3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.
4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.
5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.
6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

Quit being silly. Of course I am talking about specific 09-10 Green Bay Packer reasoning.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.

Just because the running game may become more successful doesn't mean McCarthy will know how to exploit that in an offensive gameplan. Also, if the Green Bay keeps spotting 14 pts to start the game, all the running game in the world isn't going to help.

2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.

I will give you Mathews, but Raji to this point just looks like another body. He may grow to be good, but for the next 8 games I doubt he will be a playmaker.

3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.

Theoretically, yes. However, if the offensive line doesn't block and Rogers doesn't snap out of this funk, these two won't make any difference.

4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.

Wow, you give this coaching staff alot of credit. This only works if the Packers improve greater than their opponents. In other words I can say that the opponents are also improving and their coaching staffs are also utiilizing their players better.

5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.

A rookie is going to save this offensive line? :lol:

6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Why not? It's been going on this long. McCarthy's tendency to overlook the small things is a major knock against him. I have no faith in his ability to clean up the special teams or penalities.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

It's the PRESEASON! So what if you can hit a home run on the big play. Unless you sustain drives and play sound football, that big play will only win you a possible 1 or 2 games.

BOOMSHAKALAKAA!!! FACE!!!

OK, OK, we haven't gotten to 10-6 yet, and the wheels could still come off, but I would say the point has been made that you overstated your case. And I always enjoy being part of a monster quote chain.

No point is this, bobble...as Outflow and doom and gloom crowd have disappeared. When was the last time Outflow posted. LOL

[PlantPage55]

After beating this Ravens team, there is no reason that this team can't go 11-5.

Or hell, even 12-4.

[Airin' Rodgers]

After beating this Ravens team, there is no reason that this team can't go 11-5.

Or hell, even 12-4.

Definitely. The road games still worry me though. The only wins are Detroit, St. Louis and Cleveland. But then again, other than the TB meltdown the only loss is Minnesota.

So, the team does not necessarily play poorly on the road, but has yet to prove anything on it either. They beat Chicago this week, and a playoff berth is all but locked up.

Let's go get the Bears boys!!

[Lurker64]

At this point, I will be disappointed if the team goes 10-6.

[HarveyWallbangers]

At this point, I will be disappointed if the team goes 10-6.

At Arizona and at Pittsburgh will be very tough. As bad as things are going for Pittsburgh, they are still in the thick of the playoff race and the graphic showed that they have a pretty schedule. Arizona showed it will be tough to beat last night. Hopefully, Arizona has nothing to play for.

[Lurker64]

At this point, I will be disappointed if the team goes 10-6.

At Arizona and at Pittsburgh will be very tough. As bad as things are going for Pittsburgh, they are still in the thick of the playoff race and the graphic showed that they have a pretty schedule. Arizona showed it will be tough to beat last night. Hopefully, Arizona has nothing to play for.

I just think that we can go 3-1 down the stretch. 11-5 isn't terribly unrealistic.

[Tony Oday]

GO 10-6!!!!

[channtheman]

Isn't it amazing to think that if only we had beaten the Vikings in one of those games we would be tied for the division lead?

[ThunderDan]

Well... 5 in a row and 9-4. 1 more win to get 10 with 3 to go.

[Bossman641]

Well... 5 in a row and 9-4. 1 more win to get 10 with 3 to go.

I still think 5-11 is more likely than 10-6. :D

[mraynrand]

What if I wake up and Jenna Jamison is sitting on my cock?

Both have about the same chance of happening at this point.

Jenna is knocking at the door!

[Airin' Rodgers]

What if I wake up and Jenna Jamison is sitting on my cock?

Both have about the same chance of happening at this point.

Jenna is knocking at the door!

Check yourself for std's afterwards

[MJZiggy]

In his dreams.... :lol:

10-6 could easily be reality...like others have said, if it doesn't, this whole place will explode...

[mraynrand]

What if I wake up and Jenna Jamison is sitting on my cock?

Both have about the same chance of happening at this point.

Jenna is knocking at the door!

Check yourself for std's afterwards

Leaper is the one who has to worry! Probably after that Seattle game, but maybe next week.

[Airin' Rodgers]

What if I wake up and Jenna Jamison is sitting on my cock?

Both have about the same chance of happening at this point.

Jenna is knocking at the door!

Check yourself for std's afterwards

Leaper is the one who has to worry! Probably after that Seattle game, but maybe next week.

I know i was directing my comment at him! maybe next week??? This team is going 12-4 :D

[wist43]

The defense is stepping up beyond what I thought they could achieve... due to the fact that Capers is actually running a multi-front, unbalanced attack which is what makes the 3-4 effective.

My main concern about Capers was conservativism... and we saw an awful lot of that earlier in the season - but, as someone on this board pointed out, Capers did make a comment about the conservative nature of his game plans and play calling being due to the players not being fully up to speed and comfortable with the scheme. I did not see where Capers had said that, but I accept it as being valid.

Matthews has made a believer out of me, Raji is getting better every week... and the multi-front looks Capers is showing is creating confusion for the opponents offense.

Don't know how far we can go... but we're making more progress than I could have hoped for.

[Scott Campbell]

The defense is stepping up beyond what I thought they could achieve... due to the fact that Capers is actually running a multi-front, unbalanced attack which is what makes the 3-4 effective.

My main concern about Capers was conservativism... and we saw an awful lot of that earlier in the season - but, as someone on this board pointed out, Capers did make a comment about the conservative nature of his game plans and play calling being due to the players not being fully up to speed and comfortable with the scheme. I did not see where Capers had said that, but I accept it as being valid.

Matthews has made a believer out of me, Raji is getting better every week... and the multi-front looks Capers is showing is creating confusion for the opponents offense.

Don't know how far we can go... but we're making more progress than I could have hoped for.


Alright - who hacked into Wist's account?

[ThunderDan]

The defense is stepping up beyond what I thought they could achieve... due to the fact that Capers is actually running a multi-front, unbalanced attack which is what makes the 3-4 effective.

My main concern about Capers was conservativism... and we saw an awful lot of that earlier in the season - but, as someone on this board pointed out, Capers did make a comment about the conservative nature of his game plans and play calling being due to the players not being fully up to speed and comfortable with the scheme. I did not see where Capers had said that, but I accept it as being valid.

Matthews has made a believer out of me, Raji is getting better every week... and the multi-front looks Capers is showing is creating confusion for the opponents offense.

Don't know how far we can go... but we're making more progress than I could have hoped for.


Alright - who hacked into Wist's account?

I was going to say the same thing after I read his post.

[Guiness]

Well... 5 in a row and 9-4. 1 more win to get 10 with 3 to go.

I still think 5-11 is more likely than 10-6. :D

What do you think now? :twisted: :twisted: :P

[pbmax]

5 down, 3 to go. The Pack are 9-4. Five in a row is a good thing, especially on the road.

Illegal Formation - declined
False Start (Tausch) - 5 yards
False Start (Lee) - 5 yards
Facemask (Jolly) - 15 yards
False Start (Bush) - 5 yards

[Fritz]

Well... 5 in a row and 9-4. 1 more win to get 10 with 3 to go.

I still think 5-11 is more likely than 10-6. :D

What do you think now? :twisted: :twisted: :P

I believe Bossman was echoing Partial's page three comment about it being much more likely that the Pack would go 5 - 11 than 10 - 6.

[The Leaper]

I'm keeping a wide array of STD-fighting defenses handy these days.

That said, our offense continues to buck and clank more often than an early vintage Model T. Pittsburgh is a cornered, wounded animal...and if Arizona has anything to play for, I don't like our chances.

However, Seattle coming to GB in December should be a W.

Next year, I'll try to remember to pull out a Tiger Woods caliber reference when critiquing the Packers chances.

[CaliforniaCheez]

If this team goes 10-6 it means losing 2 of 3.

Have more confidence than that.

[BF4MVP]

If this team goes 10-6 it means losing 2 of 3.

Have more confidence than that.
I'll drink to that :glug:

[Merlin]

We have Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Arizona left. Going 3-0 is not out of the question and if we want to be considered a serious contender, we will have to take care of two mediocre teams and one division winner. Pittsburgh is in a tailspin right now. Seattle isn't very good, and Arizona can hang with anyone.

However, we have some big issues to worry about. First of all, consistency in the secondary by anyone named Williams and Bush. Secondly, Rodgers has thrown some really bad balls the past two weeks and he has taken some pretty hard hits. The play calling was once again, horrible. With how much we ran the ball against Chicago, you would think we would have done something to slow down the blitz but yet only 1 quick slant the entire game. Why? Lastly, special teams, especially Crosby.

[channtheman]

I just simple do not for the life of me understand the goal to go distance playcalling. How in the hell are we so bad all year and still so bad? Throw the fad to Finley. I've recalled it twice, last week and in the preseason Cardinal game, both times it worked. Yet we refuse to run it? Or the 2 point conversion play today, Driver BARELY runs a route. Yet we can't run that from the 5 and just have Driver do the same thing except go 3 yards deeper? What gives? I have no confidence that we will score a TD when we get in goal line situations, and with how Crosby has been kicking, I've got no confidence we'll get the field goal either.

[Fritz]

It's interesting to look over the general tenor of posts in different threads. There is often a pattern to the responses. In the case of this thread, started when the Pack had lost to Tampa, the first part involves posters - the more negative ones - scorning the notion that the Packers could go 10-6. The the Packers start winning, and the other side bumps the thread to do the "what do you think about that now?" thing. The last third of the dance involves certain posters getting back to what's wrong with the Packers - the play calling, the kicking, the special teams.

If you look at a lot of threads this year, they go this way. Weird.

[Sparkey]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.


TOUCHE! :lol: Admittedly, I did not expect them to be at 9 - 4 after watching the Buccaneers game.

[Sparkey]

At this point, I will be disappointed if the team goes 10-6.

At Arizona and at Pittsburgh will be very tough. As bad as things are going for Pittsburgh, they are still in the thick of the playoff race and the graphic showed that they have a pretty schedule. Arizona showed it will be tough to beat last night. Hopefully, Arizona has nothing to play for.

Pittsburgh is dead now, as far as playoffs are concerned. They pretty much will lose every tie-breaker within their own division. Baltimore has a better chance than Pittsburgh at this point.

[Sparkey]

We have Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Arizona left. Going 3-0 is not out of the question and if we want to be considered a serious contender, we will have to take care of two mediocre teams and one division winner. Pittsburgh is in a tailspin right now. Seattle isn't very good, and Arizona can hang with anyone.

However, we have some big issues to worry about. First of all, consistency in the secondary by anyone named Williams and Bush. Secondly, Rodgers has thrown some really bad balls the past two weeks and he has taken some pretty hard hits. The play calling was once again, horrible. With how much we ran the ball against Chicago, you would think we would have done something to slow down the blitz but yet only 1 quick slant the entire game. Why? Lastly, special teams, especially Crosby.

Chicago's safety's were playing up to cover the quick slant. Seems like more teams are sitting on that slant and pressuring hard, to make sure there is no time to throw the deeper stuff. They need to run more screens and do a better job of running the middle of the field. With the safeties up, the middle of the field (15 - 30 yards) should be open.

[MichiganPackerFan]

The defense is stepping up beyond what I thought they could achieve... due to the fact that Capers is actually running a multi-front, unbalanced attack which is what makes the 3-4 effective.

My main concern about Capers was conservativism... and we saw an awful lot of that earlier in the season - but, as someone on this board pointed out, Capers did make a comment about the conservative nature of his game plans and play calling being due to the players not being fully up to speed and comfortable with the scheme. I did not see where Capers had said that, but I accept it as being valid.

Matthews has made a believer out of me, Raji is getting better every week... and the multi-front looks Capers is showing is creating confusion for the opponents offense.

Don't know how far we can go... but we're making more progress than I could have hoped for.

PUT DOWN THE KOOL-AID WIST!!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

How is Pittsburgh dead? They are one game behind in the Wild Card race. The AFC is jumbled. Besides the division leaders, Denver (8-5) is the only team with a record better than 7-6.

[Freak Out]

How is Pittsburgh dead? They are one game behind in the Wild Card race. The AFC is jumbled. Besides the division leaders, Denver (8-5) is the only team with a record better than 7-6.

Harv is right....if you think Pittsburgh is going to lay down you're nuts. We could very well beat them but they are going to fight it all the way.

[RashanGary]

Chicago's safety's were playing up to cover the quick slant. Seems like more teams are sitting on that slant and pressuring hard, to make sure there is no time to throw the deeper stuff. They need to run more screens and do a better job of running the middle of the field. With the safeties up, the middle of the field (15 - 30 yards) should be open.


Interesting post. If this is happening (and it very well could be), running the ball and Finley over the middle is going to be huge down the stretch. Teams do rush hard at the passer against us, ears pinned often times, we have to make them pay one way or the other and the easiest way is to run well. We've been doing that. Maybe you don't score as many points with the run, but we have a pretty good defense and the ST's finally showed some life. We're kind of a tough team now. We can win some of those nasty games. We're not having the big plays we had earlier in the season, but we're really controlling the clock now. I think in a close game, with the way we're controlling the ball, with our turnover causing defense, we have the clear advantage against most teams or at least a good shot against good teams. The Packers look like a legit contender (fingers crossed for health)

[Sparkey]

How is Pittsburgh dead? They are one game behind in the Wild Card race. The AFC is jumbled. Besides the division leaders, Denver (8-5) is the only team with a record better than 7-6.

Harv is right....if you think Pittsburgh is going to lay down you're nuts. We could very well beat them but they are going to fight it all the way.

They are (4-6 conf & 2-4 best case in division) in the AFC at this point. They lose every tie-breaker because of the horrible conference & divison record.

Denver 8-5(6-4 conf), Jacksonville7-6(6-3), Baltimore 7-6(6-4 conf), Miami 7-6(5-4 conf) & NY Jets 7-6(5-5 conf) are all ahead of them in the AFC. Plus, even with a win vs Baltimore, they would still lose the division tie-breaker with Baltimore(3-3 at worst).

[bobblehead]

What if I wake up and Jenna Jamison is sitting on my cock?

Both have about the same chance of happening at this point.

Jenna is knocking at the door!

Check yourself for std's afterwards

I would also check for Tito Ortiz' cock in my ass since they are a couple....messin' with a UFC fighters woman? Priceless!

[bobblehead]

5 down, 3 to go. The Pack are 9-4. Five in a row is a good thing, especially on the road.

Illegal Formation - declined
False Start (Tausch) - 5 yards
False Start (Lee) - 5 yards
Facemask (Jolly) - 15 yards
False Start (Bush) - 5 yards

3 false starts suck, but on the road against a division rival its somewhat understandable. Facemask is just tough, I don't recall the penalty, but most of the time a guy is engaging a blocker and reaches out and grabs the wrong thing.

[mission]

5 down, 3 to go. The Pack are 9-4. Five in a row is a good thing, especially on the road.

Illegal Formation - declined
False Start (Tausch) - 5 yards
False Start (Lee) - 5 yards
Facemask (Jolly) - 15 yards
False Start (Bush) - 5 yards

3 false starts suck, but on the road against a division rival its somewhat understandable. Facemask is just tough, I don't recall the penalty, but most of the time a guy is engaging a blocker and reaches out and grabs the wrong thing.

The facemask was on Jolly's sack of Cutler. You could see #97 was pretty down about it... he knew it right away. I love how crybaby Cutler mimic'd the facemask call before he was even tackled... no one cries for more flags than Cutler.

[swede]

5 - 11 is far more likely than going above 500 imo.

I forgot what I was going to say.

[SnakeLH2006]

What if I wake up and Jenna Jamison is sitting on my cock?

Both have about the same chance of happening at this point.

Jenna is knocking at the door!

Check yourself for std's afterwards

I would also check for Tito Ortiz' cock in my ass since they are a couple....messin' with a UFC fighters woman? Priceless!

Bobble it's hard to say who would give the STD's...I mean Jenna has slept with 1000's of men (easy to do when you are doing gangbangs for a living for a decade I'd assume) and Tito.......well he is the emo-est dude who EVER fought...emotions on his sleeve is not just rhetoric, and his name is Tito...hard to say where the STD's come from with that couple. 8-) :shock:

BTW...Tito and Chuck "Old Man" Liddell are the coaches in the new season of the Ultimate Fighter soon. I hope the IceMan has one more Knockout left in his ailing 39 year-old fists. Book Tito for Oprah. Maybe soccer mom's could empathize with him... :roll:

[The Leaper]

Jenna is working me like a rented mule right now.

[Lurker64]

At this point, I will be disappointed if the Packers go 10-6.

[red]

great call by tony

i thought 10-6 would be a pipe dream. i didn't for a second think we could maybe go 11-5 when we lost that game to the bucs

[Scott Campbell]

At 4-4 I greatly underestimated Dom. This has been a terrific second half of the season. Now let's beat Arizona.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How is Pittsburgh dead? They are one game behind in the Wild Card race. The AFC is jumbled. Besides the division leaders, Denver (8-5) is the only team with a record better than 7-6.

Harv is right....if you think Pittsburgh is going to lay down you're nuts. We could very well beat them but they are going to fight it all the way.

They are (4-6 conf & 2-4 best case in division) in the AFC at this point. They lose every tie-breaker because of the horrible conference & divison record.

Denver 8-5(6-4 conf), Jacksonville7-6(6-3), Baltimore 7-6(6-4 conf), Miami 7-6(5-4 conf) & NY Jets 7-6(5-5 conf) are all ahead of them in the AFC. Plus, even with a win vs Baltimore, they would still lose the division tie-breaker with Baltimore(3-3 at worst).

Pittsburgh is still alive. They were alive two weeks ago. As long as that team is alive, they are going to give you their best effort. They don't have a lot quit in them.

[ThunderDan]

My predictions are all over this site.

12-4 preseason
10-6/11-5 after today

I thought we would split with Minn and beat TB.

Not bad 4 weeks ago!

[Tony Oday]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?


Id wet myself

have you changed your pants yet?

[denverYooper]

:lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Curious that a number of negative packer fans havent' been seen in a long time. Where is Outflow? Where is g4orce? Where is Retail.

Scurried away like cockroaches. Guess the bright lights of a 10 or 11 win season will do that.

[pbmax]

Curious that a number of negative packer fans havent' been seen in a long time. Where is Outflow? Where is g4orce? Where is Retail.

Scurried away like cockroaches. Guess the bright lights of a 10 or 11 win season will do that.
No, don't put Retail in that group, though I don't know why he isn't around. Plus, I think of him and Harlan every time Rodgers gets hit after a throw. Which is too much for all concerned. :lol:

[bobblehead]

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?

I'll claim I knew it all along and never doubted them. I'll unashamedly claim I knew Babre was going to turn it around and I'll pretend I never posted anything to the contrary.

OK, so it was Tausch that saved the day. MM obviously is a great coach as I was trying to tell you guys. Who needs more than 9 running plays against a team like the steelers anyway. I never doubted this group....NEVER I SAY !!!!

[channtheman]

Curious that a number of negative packer fans havent' been seen in a long time. Where is Outflow? Where is g4orce? Where is Retail.

Scurried away like cockroaches. Guess the bright lights of a 10 or 11 win season will do that.

Well g4orce was banned. As for the others, no clue.

[Fritz]

Perhaps waiting for the lack of free agent signings in the offseason so they can revv up again.

[Fritz]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

So let me get this straight, you don't think its going to happen yet you like to be optimistic and want hope? :lol: Shame on me I don't want to take your hope away!

I will tell you again it is not possible with this team. The only "reasoning" you can give me is that other teams in the past have done it so surely these Packers can. And let me guess the Lions can finish to 8-8 because that Forest Gregg team did? :lol:


Ouch.

[swede]

"Outflow" is a term used in sewage treatment, isn't it?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Perhaps waiting for the lack of free agent signings in the offseason so they can revv up again.

Or, for a packer loss in the playoffs?

[Lurker64]

At this point, I would be disappointed if the Packers go 10-6.

[Lurker64]

At this point, I am not disappointed.

[BF4MVP]

At this point, I am not disappointed.
Same here :D :glug:

[ThunderDan]

I will get flamed to hell for this but I've heard rumbling of an eventual QB controversy. You heard it here first. Flynn has evidently looked awesome in practice as he is an innovator like Favre, and his arm strength is getting better to match his pinpoint accuracy. There is a growing school of thought that they found a diamond in the rough out of LSU.


I guess the QB controversy is now over!!!

[ThunderDan]

As said, this was an overreaction. Bush league stunt, btw, but I can't say I would expect anything less out of you TD. That said, we're not out of the woods yet... no guarantees on anything.

Why? Because you made another over the top statement and are getting called out on it? Hmmm....

Pretty sad when you get your jolly's by stroking your digital dick on a message board. Is the season over? Talk to me when it is. They're not a guarantee to finish above 500 by any means..
You didn't even make a prediction (ulness I missed it). Calling someone out for going for glory while you're sitting on the sidelines makes you a giant dbag. Sorry guy, but it does.

Bump, couldn't help myself now that the regular season is over.

[Scott Campbell]

:lol:

[Bossman641]

It's amazing how Rodgers went from not having "it" or not being "a winner" to going 11-5. He must have made the players (especially the defensive and ST players) around him perform better this year.

[ThunderDan]

It's amazing how Rodgers went from not having "it" or not being "a winner" to going 11-5. He must have made the players (especially the defensive and ST players) around him perform better this year.

No Bossman, it is the incredible talent around him that won the games. :lol:

The NFL is the ultimate team game. It just shows when the Packer D showed up this year and didn't last year we go from 6-10 to 11-5.

Our offense looks great right now with a lot of young players. If we get a real solid line 1 year all of the NFL offensive records might be in jeopardy!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I will get flamed to hell for this but I've heard rumbling of an eventual QB controversy. You heard it here first. Flynn has evidently looked awesome in practice as he is an innovator like Favre, and his arm strength is getting better to match his pinpoint accuracy. There is a growing school of thought that they found a diamond in the rough out of LSU.


I guess the QB controversy is now over!!!

Big mistake letting an innovator with pinpoint accuracy go.