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View Full Version : MM is Lost (so is TT). Do We Have Any Shot at Bill Cowher?



SnakeLH2006
11-12-2009, 01:58 AM
http://wisconsinsportsfanatic.blogspot.com/2009/11/do-packers-have-any-shot-at-cowher.html

Monday, November 9, 2009
Do the Packers have any Shot at Cowher?
As you can tell by the title, I have already assumed the coaching staff will be axed. In reality, we are probably stuck with this head coach for at least one full year, likely two before the Packers actually do something about it.

I have been complaining about the coaching since the Cincinnati game and the same problems keep coming up, bad special teams, penalties, sacks, ugh. If those problems are not enough to get a coach fired, then the fact it looks like the players have given up on him should factor in. On the early touchdown to Jones it looked like McCarthy was getting on the WRs for the excessive celebration penalty(which was later picked up) it looked like the receivers were completely ignoring him. The special teams problems are so widespread it is shocking.
They give up big kick returns.
They give up a blocked punt for a TD.
To start the second half, the special teams is the reason the Packers start inside the 10.

That second half kickoff play signifies my issue with what is going on. How can a team come out to start the second half and look so uninterested? This team thinks they are much better than they are and has lost the ability to grind out wins.

I do not think there is a very great chance of the Packers getting Bill Cowher, but at this point that is what they need. Us Packer fans have had enough of the West Coast style in Green Bay. We need a physical style, a coach committed to setting the tone with a physical running game. That running game was the one thing Sherman did have, if he never would have been given the GM title, who knows, but the Packers were a physical running team.

Rumors get started out of thin air, then build momentum, and all of a sudden it is reported on ESPN "Packers looking at Cowher". Like I said, I have little confidence that the Packers will get Cowher, but something needs to happen. And if Cowher were brought in, Capers could be retained as DC since they worked together in Pittsburgh. The fact that the DC would not also have to be bought out could lighten the overall amount of money needed to clean house. McCarthy is so lost at this point that I do not think it is salvageable. Can the Packers get to 7 wins?

Thompson Too
To go along with McCarthy, I think it is best for the Packers to completely clean house. To just get rid of anything associated with the Brett Favre breakup. I don't even care who is right or wrong at this point, this has split a fan base that continues to bitch back and forth. We need an exorcism of the entire mess that happened with Favre.
Target a coach, whether it is Cowher, Shanahan, or even Fischer if he becomes available. Work with them to also get a GM in place. Do not just go get a GM and hope he can get a coach. The Packers need an established coach and at this point to get one that coach will want some say as to who he will be working with. I am OK with that as long as it is that GM in charge of personnel, while Cowher coaches. Cowher got to a super bowl with Neil Odonnel and to AFC Championships with Kordell Stewart. He is my dream choice.

Packer Best Case Scenario for Rest of Season
Here is my best case scenario for the rest of the season. Packers beat the Cowboys, but Rodgers suffers a non serious season ending injury. Something like a bad, high ankle sprain. To go ever further, have Rodgers injury occur on a game winning TD pass. Then he gets shelved for the year because if Rodger actually endures the 70 sacks he is on pace for, he will be shell-shocked and virtually done as an effective QB.
This way, Rodgers could go out on a high note with confidence restored. The team would also display how poor they were setup at the OLine and backup QB spots. That is bad GMing, and if Rodgers did get hurt I think the rumblings would get loud enough from a national perspective that the Packers would have to do something.

Look, I hate this. It was just a couple of years ago that we had to go through this with Sherman. Once Sherman became GM and Head Coach, it signified his end was not too far off. It is too hard to do both and once Thompson was hired as GM, there was no way Sherman was setup to continue success as a head coach. I really think it is best to clean house, put the Favre mess behind our entire fan base, and find a coach that will instill a physical identity.

==========================

Personally, I think Cowher is real possibility. He loves his midwestern/east coast roots.....always raves on Green Bay as an organization/city and the players (Arod and defense). If he was to re-up to coaching...this would be the place, no?

Snake used to be a big MM fan and TT....but they are tied at the hip. Several seasons (great players) and little results (one Favre led 13-3 season) does not a regime make.

Unless we tear off a 10-6 season (aka 6-2 to finish...unlikely) MM and Ted are gone. The Green Bay Packers are meant to win.

As much as peeps hated Shermy....he still won...in spades. Shitty GM, but a great coach compared to Mike. MM hasn't done shit and Snake's been following all the Packer shows lately and esp. MM's own show and he looks fatter and less enthusiastic each week. Now Larry McCarrarren (and fans with questions) are killing him on his own show about penalties/unpreparedness/sacks weekly. He's done and TT is too (joined at the hip) after this year with all that "talent" if we don't just do something stellar soon. He's in over his head and sad to see another recent season in the dumps, or so it seems lately.

Cowher would be a great fit in Green Bay. He'd love to jump onto a team with talent/a bright young QB/with prestige and tradition. GB sounds really right for him after the Steelers. Rumors are going on that he's talked to peeps inside his circle about the GB job in 2010 if it comes to fruition.

Thoughts? MM has little to offer anymore as he's jumped the shark as this team just keeps regressing lately. MM looks sad, tired, and looking like he just doesn't care anymore. MM lost this team.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1605/29422749.jpg

Gunakor
11-12-2009, 02:34 AM
I'm all for a new HC at this point. I can agree with the article on that. I haven't given up on TT though as I feel the talent is there, and would like to see his guys playing for a legitimate coach who can maximize that talent before throwing Thompson to the wolves.

SnakeLH2006
11-12-2009, 02:44 AM
I'm all for a new HC at this point. I can agree with the article on that. I haven't given up on TT though as I feel the talent is there, and would like to see his guys playing for a legitimate coach who can maximize that talent before throwing Thompson to the wolves.

Gun...I agree with the TT assessment as his ability to draft/keep cap space is good. But MM needs to go. Look at my photoshopped pic and disagree with that? :shock: :lol: But TT is not a big problem, I like him at GM, but I think TT and MM are joined at the hip as most GM/Head Coaches go. I don't wanna see TT go, but that's what will most likely happen when MM goes. Green Bay is kinda like an Alabama/LSU/Notre Dame job. Clean house when you get the top guy. Cowher (hate posting rumors from other sites but seen plenty) looks like a good possibility and he's got some fucking clout sitting out 2 years as an ACE (top 3 best coach even now in the NFL) possibility. I doubt TT rides it out is all. It will be Bill and his crew for sure when it goes down.

I doubt Cowher rides it out on CBS pre-game in 2010...and if he goes to coach...what better pedigree/tradition/talent scenario does he have (esp. with all the rumors of him to GB) have? Perfect fit IMO. But TT is gone then too.

Gunakor
11-12-2009, 03:29 AM
You could be right, absolutely. But I think it'd be a mistake tying the two together in a mass firing. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see there's plenty of talent on this team.

The problem has been inconsistency. I've heard this from every angle of the argument, our guys are just too damn inconsistent. But here's the thing. If you can do it right some of the time, you're capable of doing it right all the time. Inconsistency isn't a talent issue. It's a coaching issue. If the problem is inconsistency then that isn't the fault of Thompson, and as such I'd be concerned if Thompson were canned as a result of poor coaching.

Now if Thompson hires a new coach and the new guy can't get better results, well then I guess you have to wonder whether Thompson can get that right guy in to coach his talented players. At that point I might start looking for Thompson's replacement. But IMO he deserves another shot with a new coach, and it would be a huge mistake if he isn't afforded that opportunity.

Regarding Cowher, I like him alot, and he's proven himself to be more than legit as a HC. But honestly I'd rather bring in another offense guy as the new HC. I think Dom is getting pretty good results from our defense, it's our offense that needs a jolt at the moment. Beyond that, I'd like to see McCarthy retained somehow as I think the kids at QB could benefit greatly from his expertise coaching quarterbacks. But he shouldn't be calling plays or implementing scheme IMO. A new offensive specialist who is a stickler for detail and a phenomenal playcaller would be more ideal for HC of the Packers. That's what I think anyway.

SnakeLH2006
11-12-2009, 03:49 AM
You could be right, absolutely. But I think it'd be a mistake tying the two together in a mass firing. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see there's plenty of talent on this team.

The problem has been inconsistency. I've heard this from every angle of the argument, our guys are just too damn inconsistent. But here's the thing. If you can do it right some of the time, you're capable of doing it right all the time. Inconsistency isn't a talent issue. It's a coaching issue. If the problem is inconsistency then that isn't the fault of Thompson, and as such I'd be concerned if Thompson were canned as a result of poor coaching.

Now if Thompson hires a new coach and the new guy can't get better results, well then I guess you have to wonder whether Thompson can get that right guy in to coach his talented players. At that point I might start looking for Thompson's replacement. But IMO he deserves another shot with a new coach, and it would be a huge mistake if he isn't afforded that opportunity.

Regarding Cowher, I like him alot, and he's proven himself to be more than legit as a HC. But honestly I'd rather bring in another offense guy as the new HC. I think Dom is getting pretty good results from our defense, it's our offense that needs a jolt at the moment. Beyond that, I'd like to see McCarthy retained somehow as I think the kids at QB could benefit greatly from his expertise coaching quarterbacks. But he shouldn't be calling plays or implementing scheme IMO. A new offensive specialist who is a stickler for detail and a phenomenal playcaller would be more ideal for HC of the Packers. That's what I think anyway.

Normally, as I've been known and vice-versa for the late-nite postings....but once again can't disagree with your astute assessments.

Snake only said that both MM and TT are likely gone in one fell swoop. In a perfect world keep TT's talent assessment and cap knowledge (drafting and roster cap future stuff) intact.....most likely both are gone. You brought an assessment on the whole staff in a perfect world....that won't happen. If MM goes...so does TT. If MM goes, and TT doesn't...I don't trust TT to sign "the GUY" like a proven winner like Bill at 52. He'll sign a young coach (who may be ok)...but fuck it...

Guy's like Cowher are a rarity in coaching free-agency in their prime (Parcells was old as hell...Cowher could coach 15 years yet). Winners...Playoffs yearly, get to SuperBowls....intense guys who demand respect....(everything MM has NOT brought to GB).

In a perfect world..yes, we could segregate those qualities and get the best of everything...GM/coach/team....but no....if we retain TT he's shown his qualities...low pay...guy who can do some things coaching...not a big name.....MM was the guy who brought in Dom..not TT.

MM has talent with the QB..but we can't retain all that shit....It's all or nothing.

Go big or go home. Snake's motto. And really makes sense here. I like TT. I like MM's QB coaching. I like Dom at D. But if the shit goes down.....as small market as Green Bay is....we are a top 3 destination for prestige/talent/where coaches want to go right now. Capitalize on it. Most likely HUGE turnover.....I was pissed when Shermy left a little just cuz we won 11-12 games a year. MM showed me little and looks pathetic now. Cowher looks the fit. That's all. It'll be a big turnover. But what is so great with TT at GM in the big picture wins/losses? Lots of GM's do well and WIN! Who the hell is the Vike's GM for example. I've been drinking too much TT Kool-Aid personally. I just want to win after 5 years now. Damn.

Gunakor
11-12-2009, 04:20 AM
Well, we won plenty of games in 2007, which can't be forgotten. It's only been a season and a half since we were playing football in January.

What is so great about TT regarding his wins and losses? Talent. He's got guys that can and should win many more games than they lose. He doesn't have the coach that will put them in the best position to win more than they lose. But the silver lining is that this team should be able to reach double digit wins every season with the right coaching and the right gameplans. I honestly do believe that.

I know you have TT and MM tied at the hip, so either they succeed together or they fail together. I don't. I see one as successful and the other not so much. If you keep the two separate, as difficult as that may be, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's not all or nothing. It's keep the best of what you have and build on that. Not scrap the whole thing and start over from scratch. I'm not looking to start over. I'm not looking to clean house. It's not like the season has been a complete disaster. I just want the right people in the right places so as to minimize mental errors and improve the quality of our football team.

digitaldean
11-12-2009, 07:35 AM
I agree. Cowher would be a great fit.

Unfortunately, if John Fox is canned in Carolina, Cowher would be first one on the list there. He and his family moved there after Pittsburgh.

Either way he's a hot commodity for next season.

TravisWilliams23
11-12-2009, 09:36 AM
I agree. Cowher would be a great fit.

Unfortunately, if John Fox is canned in Carolina, Cowher would be first one on the list there. He and his family moved there after Pittsburgh.

Either way he's a hot commodity for next season.

That's what I've read also. Cowher could be talked out of retirement IF
the gig was Carolina. I don't know if Green Bay is on his radar screen
with the family situated in Carolina.

rbaloha1
11-12-2009, 10:18 AM
Cowher would work. Legitimate tough winning teams. Unsure if Cowher and TT could work together. Confident TT could find the right players to fit schemes. Maybe Cowher and Dom would also be a better fit.

If the Packers are seriously they better move swiftly with Carolina lurking.

Smidgeon
11-12-2009, 11:18 AM
You could be right, absolutely. But I think it'd be a mistake tying the two together in a mass firing. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see there's plenty of talent on this team.

The problem has been inconsistency. I've heard this from every angle of the argument, our guys are just too damn inconsistent. But here's the thing. If you can do it right some of the time, you're capable of doing it right all the time. Inconsistency isn't a talent issue. It's a coaching issue. If the problem is inconsistency then that isn't the fault of Thompson, and as such I'd be concerned if Thompson were canned as a result of poor coaching.

Now if Thompson hires a new coach and the new guy can't get better results, well then I guess you have to wonder whether Thompson can get that right guy in to coach his talented players. At that point I might start looking for Thompson's replacement. But IMO he deserves another shot with a new coach, and it would be a huge mistake if he isn't afforded that opportunity.

+2


Regarding Cowher, I like him alot, and he's proven himself to be more than legit as a HC. But honestly I'd rather bring in another offense guy as the new HC. I think Dom is getting pretty good results from our defense, it's our offense that needs a jolt at the moment. Beyond that, I'd like to see McCarthy retained somehow as I think the kids at QB could benefit greatly from his expertise coaching quarterbacks. But he shouldn't be calling plays or implementing scheme IMO. A new offensive specialist who is a stickler for detail and a phenomenal playcaller would be more ideal for HC of the Packers. That's what I think anyway.

+0

I don't care what a coach's specialty is. I want him to be a head coach, someone who understands the game, how to get the most out of his team, etc. Get a strong OC if you have to for schemes and playcalling. McCarthy might be good as an OC. He certainly seems to get QBs. Ideally, he could focus on just that, but there's no way he sticks around if he's out as HC.

Partial
11-12-2009, 11:50 AM
This org doesn't have the wealthy owner to hire a coach with a proven track record. They can keep one of their own, sure, but the guys that are proven long term to be successful cost A LOT.

If they do choose a new coach, look for them to go after one of the 3-4 DCs or an OC that will keep Capers and the 3-4.

Smidgeon
11-12-2009, 12:51 PM
This org doesn't have the wealthy owner to hire a coach with a proven track record. They can keep one of their own, sure, but the guys that are proven long term to be successful cost A LOT.

If they do choose a new coach, look for them to go after one of the 3-4 DCs or an OC that will keep Capers and the 3-4.

If they wanted, this organization could hire an expensive coach. They've just prefered not to as a method of operation.

That's pure speculation, of course.

SnakeLH2006
11-12-2009, 04:42 PM
This org doesn't have the wealthy owner to hire a coach with a proven track record. They can keep one of their own, sure, but the guys that are proven long term to be successful cost A LOT.

If they do choose a new coach, look for them to go after one of the 3-4 DCs or an OC that will keep Capers and the 3-4.

That's just ridiculous. GB is in the top 10 of NFL revenue per teams (at least with the current collective bargaining agreement in place).

If GB wanted to spend top cash for a top coach, it usually works out well with the top guys at HC. If we can ensure a consistent winner with a great HC like Cowher for example, then his $8 million yearly salary vs $4 million or so for an average (that's a stretch, I know) HC like McCarthy wouldn't matter. A consistent winner would be a huge boost to the Packers merchandising coffers in Green Bay. Happy fans buy stuff.

So as far as a HC goes, you get what you pay for...if you have a chance for a guy like Cowher, you pay him what the market is and don't think twice about it.

arcilite
11-12-2009, 05:15 PM
Bill Cowher took 13 years to win a superbowl.

I don't want to wait 13 years.

retailguy
11-12-2009, 08:51 PM
Bill Cowher took 13 years to win a superbowl.

I don't want to wait 13 years.

Beats infinity. That's what we have now.

Tyrone Bigguns
11-12-2009, 09:50 PM
Bill Cowher took 13 years to win a superbowl.

I don't want to wait 13 years.

Beats infinity. That's what we have now.

You dont' know that. Arc presented a fact, you presented your opinion.

And, after your Moll comments, why would ANYBODY take you serious.

MJZiggy
11-12-2009, 09:54 PM
Bill Cowher took 13 years to win a superbowl.

I don't want to wait 13 years.

Beats infinity. That's what we have now.

How can you say that? We were a pick away just 2 years ago. Some guy once told me that all we have to do is fix the o-line.

retailguy
11-12-2009, 09:55 PM
Bill Cowher took 13 years to win a superbowl.

I don't want to wait 13 years.

Beats infinity. That's what we have now.

How can you say that? We were a pick away just 2 years ago. Some guy once told me that all we have to do is fix the o-line.

I rewatched the Tampa game on DVR earlier. It depressed me.

MJZiggy
11-12-2009, 10:03 PM
What would you go and do a dumb thing like that for, you masochist??

retailguy
11-12-2009, 10:06 PM
What would you go and do a dumb thing like that for, you masochist??

Sadly, I was watching the OL. Trying to find something good to hope for improvement. :shock:

MJZiggy
11-12-2009, 10:26 PM
Putting on some leather and giving the missus a whip might have been less painful.