What Improved; What Did Not?

[Fritz]

Based on the general tenor and substance of posts on this site and others the past week, these are the problem areas for the Packers the last few weeks - prior to the Dallas game:

1. Special Teams
2. Offensive Line
3. Penalties
4. Play Calling
5. Lack of Pass Rush

As one sage pointed out before the game, if the team could fix or limit the damage in even a couple areas, they might have a chance.

In my opinion, the only two real improvements were in special teams and the pass rush. To a lesser extent, the playcalling was better, too. MM did finally, finally call some screens and some shorter routes. He still seems afraid of the run, though. Fourth quarter, Packers driving, run on first down for five. Perfect chance to gash a gassed defensive line with another run. Even if it only goes for two yards you have a sweet third and short. But no - MM calls a pass - a screen, I think? and it loses yardage. He still seems to give up on the run too easily.

Still, the playcalling seemed to at least acknowledge, finally, the troubles the offensive line is having. It's about time.

But the offensive line is still offensive, and the penalties are relentless.
We'll have to see I suppose if the special teams will hold up (I hold my breath every time that team kicks off or punts), if the pass rush and rush defense can be stout, and if MM will quit trying to call what he thinks he should be able to and call what can work given the offensive line's limitations.

[sharpe1027]

Based on the general tenor and substance of posts on this site and others the past week, these are the problem areas for the Packers the last few weeks - prior to the Dallas game:

1. Special Teams
2. Offensive Line
3. Penalties
4. Play Calling
5. Lack of Pass Rush

As one sage pointed out before the game, if the team could fix or limit the damage in even a couple areas, they might have a chance.

In my opinion, the only two real improvements were in special teams and the pass rush. To a lesser extent, the playcalling was better, too. MM did finally, finally call some screens and some shorter routes. He still seems afraid of the run, though. Fourth quarter, Packers driving, run on first down for five. Perfect chance to gash a gassed defensive line with another run. Even if it only goes for two yards you have a sweet third and short. But no - MM calls a pass - a screen, I think? and it loses yardage. He still seems to give up on the run too easily.

Still, the playcalling seemed to at least acknowledge, finally, the troubles the offensive line is having. It's about time.

But the offensive line is still offensive, and the penalties are relentless.
We'll have to see I suppose if the special teams will hold up (I hold my breath every time that team kicks off or punts), if the pass rush and rush defense can be stout, and if MM will quit trying to call what he thinks he should be able to and call what can work given the offensive line's limitations.

Play calling is much easier when your defense doesn't give up a point until garbage time.

IMO, the offense did not improve much, if at all, they just got more chances because of the D. Penalties were still killing them as were sacks. I'd say pretty much the entire difference was D and special teams.

[gbgary]

the entire scheme from yesterday should have been used all season long, especially the vikings games. it's what we saw in the preseason that got everyone fired up and what's been expected since the capers hiring. not one long ball, that i can remember, in the game. if they're gonna blitz rodgers make them pay with short passes and by moving the chains. then maybe they'll back off some. they've run the ball pretty good this year and need to keep at it. penalties have to be reduced...oh, and clueless mm disposed of!

[red]

we still gave up 4 sacks, and a-rod got destroyed on a couple other hits. o-line is still not good

d played much better, and it all started with the blitzing. where was this the previous 8 games?

we still had 12 penalties for 100yards. wtf?

i just don't understand how they can say teams have been taking away the short passes all this time, yet against a good D with a good secondary, there they were for the taking

i think m3 started to feel the heat this week and started to pull his head out of his ass. now he needs to pull it the rest of the way out

god help us if yesterdays game saved anyones job

[Partial]

Running game. Ryan Grant was moving the pile. I've not seen that happen since 2007. I was very impressed with him yesterday.

[sharpe1027]

Running game. Ryan Grant was moving the pile. I've not seen that happen since 2007. I was very impressed with him yesterday.

The running game looked decent, but IMO, it has looked good in other games this year. Under-utilized maybe, but it didn't jump out as much different than in the past several games.

[AtlPackFan]

we still gave up 4 sacks, and a-rod got destroyed on a couple other hits. o-line is still not good

d played much better, and it all started with the blitzing. where was this the previous 8 games?

we still had 12 penalties for 100yards. wtf?

i just don't understand how they can say teams have been taking away the short passes all this time, yet against a good D with a good secondary, there they were for the taking

i think m3 started to feel the heat this week and started to pull his head out of his ass. now he needs to pull it the rest of the way out

god help us if yesterdays game saved anyones job

Red, do you think there is a specific record that saves McCarthy's/TTs job? Or do you think it is more who they win/lose to than a specific record.

Actually, I am interested in what everyone thinks? Are MM and TT really on the hot seat? If so, what do they need to do/win to save their jobs?

My personal opinion is TT gets another year minimum and MM is safe as long as they are around .500. I hope the hell I'm wrong.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The OL coach and ST coach will be fired before TT or MM. Given those 2 areas are the ones with the most criticsm piled onto them, a coaching change there will quiet the noise for a while.

Unless the Pack lose out and finish 5-11 or 6-10, I don't see TT or MM jobs in jeopardy at all.

[denverYooper]

Special teams still made me nervous even though they didn't give up a big return. Especially the punting unit. Kapinos punted a little better after getting chewed out, I thought, but they were still shaky.

Our offense as a whole is still very underwhelming. Almost all of the penalties were on them and they continually set themselves in holes again. They also were very good at getting to midfield and stalling. Kudos for the huge drive in the 3rd/4th to eat clock and really wear out the Cowboys. They were among the league worst on 3rd and long and they converted on a few during that drive, so that was a bonus. But on the whole they were not who we thought they were.

I liked the offensive line that they had on the field yesterday. I'd like to see that line continue to play together because I think cohesion would do them some good. Lang had a little bit of a shaky start but after the first quarter, he did a pretty decent job. Even on the play where he got beat by Ware to the inside, I felt like he recovered some and at least rode him away from Rodgers once A-rod slid over. He really messed up by letting Ware in in the first place but he didn't give up after he'd F'ed up. He's better in pass pro than Barbre, even on 3 days' work at RT. Cliffy is having a harder time with speed this year but he's still the best left tackle we have by a mile and I sure hope that he stays healthy. Colledge was probably the worst lineman again yesterday. IIRC Sitton was the only one not to draw a flag and he was solid again. All in all, everybody thought those guys would get destroyed all night and they actually played better than I expected. I'd say they improved, but only from "stupendously shitty" to "pretty bad". That could just be because Barbre was on the bench.

I have a feeling that Tausch will be back when healthy, which is ok. He's still probably our best RT but I'm not convinced it would remain that way after Lang got some more game reps there. I think he's going to be on the line somewhere next year, and I feel pretty good about having him there if Tausch's knee continues to be a problem.

What gets me is this: who would've thought that our team would start to find it's identity as a defensive team? I certainly thought that we just needed an average D and our "explosive" offense would certainly roll up some wins. Ha! That unit gets better every week and I think this last game only adds positive feedback into what they're doing.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Special teams still made me nervous even though they didn't give up a big return. Especially the punting unit. Kapinos punted a little better after getting chewed out, I thought, but they were still shaky.

Our offense as a whole is still very underwhelming. Almost all of the penalties were on them and they continually set themselves in holes again. They also were very good at getting to midfield and stalling. Kudos for the huge drive in the 3rd/4th to eat clock and really wear out the Cowboys. They were among the league worst on 3rd and long and they converted on a few during that drive, so that was a bonus. But on the whole they were not who we thought they were.

I liked the offensive line that they had on the field yesterday. I'd like to see that line continue to play together because I think cohesion would do them some good. Lang had a little bit of a shaky start but after the first quarter, he did a pretty decent job. Even on the play where he got beat by Ware to the inside, I felt like he recovered some and at least rode him away from Rodgers once A-rod slid over. He really messed up by letting Ware in in the first place but he didn't give up after he'd F'ed up. He's better in pass pro than Barbre, even on 3 days' work at RT. Cliffy is having a harder time with speed this year but he's still the best left tackle we have by a mile and I sure hope that he stays healthy. Colledge was probably the worst lineman again yesterday. IIRC Sitton was the only one not to draw a flag and he was solid again. All in all, everybody thought those guys would get destroyed all night and they actually played better than I expected. I'd say they improved, but only from "stupendously shitty" to "pretty bad". That could just be because Barbre was on the bench.

I have a feeling that Tausch will be back when healthy, which is ok. He's still probably our best RT but I'm not convinced it would remain that way after Lang got some more game reps there. I think he's going to be on the line somewhere next year, and I feel pretty good about having him there if Tausch's knee continues to be a problem.

What gets me is this: who would've thought that our team would start to find it's identity as a defensive team? I certainly thought that we just needed an average D and our "explosive" offense would certainly roll up some wins. Ha! That unit gets better every week and I think this last game only adds positive feedback into what they're doing.


On Tauscher: I hope it is the last we have seen of him. The wheels have fallen off and if he does come in to start all he is doing is taking learning reps away from Lang. Tauscher is not a big enough improvement to warrant him starting over a rookie still getting his feet wet. I have a huge feeling we'll be drafting a LT with our first or second pick next year regardless of BPA. Clifton is just getting too old.

As a side note, more discipline will not improve the penalties we are recieving on the offensive line(atleast 5 or 6 holds yesterday). This is in direct correlation to our talent(or lack there of) along the line. When a guy gets beat he holds and when he jumps offsides at home it's because he is trying to get out of his stance more quickly because he is being whipped like a rented mule. The penalties will not improve until this unit improves. It's really that simple.

On the defense: A lot of people seem to forget we are only 9 games in to a complete overhaul of our defensive philosophy. As long as everyone stays healthy the Packers really have nowhere but up to go on this side of the ball. The defensive coaches are still in the evaluation process(9 weeks in? hah!) with several players trying to figure out where to best utilize them in the new 3-4. Time is on our side on the defensive side of the ball. Now that's not saying we wont see a relapse, but if you do it can be blamed on one or two things. Injuries and blown assignments.

[Zool]

Short....passing....game

3 step drop, throw before the receiver makes his cut. Keeps the LB's honest opening up some room for Grant and alleviating some pressure off the line.

Huzzah for the slant and quick out.

[bobblehead]

As a testament to just how good we played, we had 5? holding penalties that I saw and only 2 should have been called. I believe the dallas OL had ONE!!! :shock: Now the old saying is you can call holding on every play in the NFL, the fact that we are getting killed on subjective penalties (PI and holding) tells me our bad rap is hurting us immensely.

I see our DL getting held plenty worse than our OL gets called for, and if it doesn't stop we won't ever win the battle in the trenches. Our DL is looking incredible vs. the run, and now that we are blitzing on 3rd and long its coming together.

All the naysayers that said shutting down detroit and cleveland didn't count....well, stuff this in your pipe and smoke it.

[pbmax]

Most improved part of the game? Winning in the trenches. Even if pass blocking was still an issue, it was a fine game for the running game. When was the last time the Packers got to say that against the Cowboys.

Defense has been solid on the line for much of the year, but another fine effort by Jolly, Pickett, Jenkins and Raji.

[Fritz]

Short....passing....game

3 step drop, throw before the receiver makes his cut. Keeps the LB's honest opening up some room for Grant and alleviating some pressure off the line.

Huzzah for the slant and quick out.

Zool, since that's your avatar, does that mean you have sex with your mom, then?

[3irty1]

The biggest improvement IMO was the play calling.

The pass rush improved but it certainly helped that half their OL was out by the end of the game. The actual play of the players was helped tremendously by the overall cowboy misfortune but I thought MM's game plan was spot on. He got A-Rod to play within his offense and got the short passing and running games going. Props to the players though for one of the most physical wins in recent memory.

[Zool]

Short....passing....game

3 step drop, throw before the receiver makes his cut. Keeps the LB's honest opening up some room for Grant and alleviating some pressure off the line.

Huzzah for the slant and quick out.

Zool, since that's your avatar, does that mean you have sex with your mom, then?

Oedipus would like to have a chat with your subconscious.

[Fritz]

Short....passing....game

3 step drop, throw before the receiver makes his cut. Keeps the LB's honest opening up some room for Grant and alleviating some pressure off the line.

Huzzah for the slant and quick out.

Zool, since that's your avatar, does that mean you have sex with your mom, then?

Oedipus would like to have a chat with your subconscious.

Yeah, he'd like to, but right now he's busy doing his mom!

[Maxie the Taxi]

Based on the general tenor and substance of posts on this site and others the past week, these are the problem areas for the Packers the last few weeks - prior to the Dallas game:

1. Special Teams
2. Offensive Line
3. Penalties
4. Play Calling
5. Lack of Pass Rush

As one sage pointed out before the game, if the team could fix or limit the damage in even a couple areas, they might have a chance.

In my opinion, the only two real improvements were in special teams and the pass rush. To a lesser extent, the playcalling was better, too. MM did finally, finally call some screens and some shorter routes. He still seems afraid of the run, though. Fourth quarter, Packers driving, run on first down for five. Perfect chance to gash a gassed defensive line with another run. Even if it only goes for two yards you have a sweet third and short. But no - MM calls a pass - a screen, I think? and it loses yardage. He still seems to give up on the run too easily.
Still, the playcalling seemed to at least acknowledge, finally, the troubles the offensive line is having. It's about time.

But the offensive line is still offensive, and the penalties are relentless.
We'll have to see I suppose if the special teams will hold up (I hold my breath every time that team kicks off or punts), if the pass rush and rush defense can be stout, and if MM will quit trying to call what he thinks he should be able to and call what can work given the offensive line's limitations.

I think you nailed it, Fritz. Especially the part about giving up on the run to easily. Grant should have had 150+ yards yesterday. Several times we had good, first down gains with the rush, only to be given up on.

In my judgement, your a rushing team when it's 3rd and five and you run the ball.

They had good production off the "I" formation yesterday.

And if they run that damn draw out of the shotgun formation one more time, I think I'll puke. Late in the 3rd qtr. (3:32 to go) Rodgers got sacked on 1st down and McCarthy gets cute and calls that joke draw play. Like it's going to fool anybody!! He ran it a couple of times with the same result.

Just line up in the "I" and rush the damn ball.