I Still Want McCarthy Fired

[Scott Campbell]

I think he's just in over his head. The stupid penalties are a tell tale sign of an undisciplined team.

[SkinBasket]

Anyone who watched this game should have noticed that it was several outstanding individual efforts by players who overcame another game of terrible play calling, penalties, and Jarrett Bush playing defensive snaps that won this game and not anything that was being done from the sideline.

I was thinking in the first half that I can't recall a team with this much talent in various areas looking so fucking clueless, listless, and cockless.

McCarthy isn't bringing the smarts, motivation, or the cock to be effective and his ineptitude is spilling all over the field and bringing our players down like a sticky load of demotivating, mind numbing, drive ending, estrogen infused molasses.

[pbmax]

It wasn't evident on defense, Jarrett Bush notwithstanding.

But his inability to stop the penalties on offense is going to cost them more games. His gameplan (or Rodgers execution of it) was better, but even with a short passing game and screens, they still got sacked 4 times. At times it seemed like the best thing that happened to the line was when a sack was a loss of 5 yards instead of eight.

Special Teams did not give up a huge play, but an 18 yard return on a sideline punt isn't playing well either.

[Brandon494]

I think he's just in over his head. The stupid penalties are a tell tale sign of an undisciplined team.

+1

[Freak Out]

and cockless.

I never bought into TTs philosophy of drafting women.

[MJZiggy]

and cockless.

I never bought into TTs philosophy of drafting women.

We can be damned fierce. Just try getting between me and the game once...

[hoosier]

If you fire MM then what do you do with Capers? I lmore or less like what I have seen of Capers so far, especially the Capers that knows how to utilize Woodson's unique skills. And I certainly don't want to see the Packers start over with a new scheme for the third time in six years or whatever it would be. They just now seem to be hitting their stride in the 3-4, and when they replace Kampman with someone a little more versatile they may actually have a very exciting defense. But you can't really fire the head coach and retain the DC unless you decide to make the DC the new head coach. And I am not sure I want to see Capers in that role just now.

[Jimx29]

I think he's just in over his head. The stupid penalties are a tell tale sign of an undisciplined team.

+1+2

[gbgary]

it can't happen soon enough for me. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:forums.corvetteforum.com/get/images/smilies/toetap05.gif

[Iron Mike]

Bring back Ray.

http://images.packers.com/images/team/rhodes.jpeg

[Brohm]

I think he's just in over his head. The stupid penalties are a tell tale sign of an undisciplined team.

+1+2

+1

I think it's more in season accountability on his staff. He trusts them too much/overesitmates their abilities or won't whack underperfoming members of his staff until after the season. 12 more penalties (9/10 on the Off) and that same damn miscommunication on the left side on the unblocked Ware (Jared Allen, random TB, Cleve guy, etc). Talent but no teachers on the offensive side other than QB, which is MM himself. He needs to step up and get some real coaches on the Offensive side. Philben/Campen (Slocum on ST even though they were better) are useless.

[Pugger]

I'm no fan of MM but I don't know if it would be a good idea to can him right now. I say let the season work its way out and see where we stand. If the fellas are still screwing up like this then it will be time to go in another direction with the HC and/or Offensive side of the ball.

[MOBB DEEP]

I was thinking in the first half that I can't recall a team with this much talent in various areas looking so fucking clueless, listless, and cockless.


Agreed and kinda funny

But are u a homsexual? or Avatar is self portrait?

[red]

agreed

he still needs to go

[Scott Campbell]

Hey dipshit. How bout you get the whole team ready to play this week? Capers can't bail your fat ass out every week.

[Fritz]

Isn't it the over-cockness of the team that is causing all these mindless, violent penalties? The face-masks, the holdings, the personal fouls - isn't all that too much testosterone, too much cock? No thought, just mindless stupid violence?

If MM was more like a woman, the penalties would decrease because a woman would be more mindful of being caught and would be much cleverer about holding, cheating, and the like.

I am not a big MM fan but I'm with the poster who pointed out that firing him, especially now, would be awkward and disruptive because of Capers. I don't really want to start over on the defensive side of the ball but if you can MM and don't hire Capers - the former head coach - why would he stay in GB? Wouldn't that be awkward?

So I'd like to let this season play out and see how it goes. I think he's coaching for his job now and should continue to do so, even if it means putting still-injured guys out there before they're ready, potentially costing them their careers and long term injury as long as the Packers win and MM keeps his job.

Wow, did I really say that? Man, I am mean.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Hey dipshit. How bout you get the whole team ready to play this week? Capers can't bail your fat ass out every week.

I hear ya, but I don't see why not. So long as injuries don't hit key players, Capers might bail Stubby's ass out each week.

[red]

just as long as capers doesn't become HC, or expect to become HC when that glorious day arrives

capers is not the best HC

[Tony Oday]

Keep MM just get him away from his Perkins Menu and get him a real playcalling sheet

[MJZiggy]

If MM was more like a woman, the penalties would decrease because a woman would be more mindful of being caught and would be much cleverer about holding, cheating, and the like.



Yikes! Do I need to start worrying about you? We are cleverer, but I like to think we're cleverer about all the good things.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If MM was more like a woman, the penalties would decrease because a woman would be more mindful of being caught and would be much cleverer about holding, cheating, and the like.



Yikes! Do I need to start worrying about you? We are cleverer, but I like to think we're cleverer about all the good things.

Yes, we know what you'd like to think.

Then there is reality.

[MJZiggy]

And you're trying to stay on my good side, huh? No wonder Beatrice went off and married someone else. I think how a woman uses her superior intellect depends on the woman. We're not all alike you know no matter how you like to generalize.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

And you're trying to stay on my good side, huh? No wonder Beatrice went off and married someone else. I think how a woman uses her superior intellect depends on the woman. We're not all alike you know no matter how you like to generalize.

Ty isn't trying to stay on your good side. Ty has given up...fritz, mystery guys in gtown you can't seem to hook up with, purple crayons, mobb trying for a little side action, etc.

Ty likes how you now have conflated cleverness with superior intellect. :lol:

Women aren't that different, nor are men, no matter how much you would like to pretend. You are not a rare, special snowflake.

[MJZiggy]

Wow that mystery guy in Gtown is REALLY a mystery. Even I don't know who you're referring to.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Wow that mystery guy in Gtown is REALLY a mystery. Even I don't know who you're referring to.

Really? Wasn't there some guy you saw occasionally, wanted to meet more, but couldn't seem to run into him..or something like that. You knew his work vicinity but not where he worked.

ty remembers something like that.

[Scott Campbell]

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc275/thehousenextdoor/2008/Links%20for%20the%20Day/June%202008/June%2013%202008/drdrew.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

You are not a rare, special snowflake.

We are all special.

http://www.qcms.org/images/mrrogers_image.gif

[mraynrand]

If everyone is special, then no one is.

http://www.movie-holic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/the-incredibles.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You are not a rare, special snowflake.

We are all special.

http://www.qcms.org/images/mrrogers_image.gif

Your mom thinks you are the greatest.

[MJZiggy]

Wow that mystery guy in Gtown is REALLY a mystery. Even I don't know who you're referring to.

Really? Wasn't there some guy you saw occasionally, wanted to meet more, but couldn't seem to run into him..or something like that. You knew his work vicinity but not where he worked.

ty remembers something like that.

Ah, I remember him. Let's just say he didn't like cupcakes and I need a man with a bit of a sweet tooth.

[retailguy]

Wow that mystery guy in Gtown is REALLY a mystery. Even I don't know who you're referring to.

Really? Wasn't there some guy you saw occasionally, wanted to meet more, but couldn't seem to run into him..or something like that. You knew his work vicinity but not where he worked.

ty remembers something like that.

Ah, I remember him. Let's just say he didn't like cupcakes and I need a man with a bit of a sweet tooth.

You just restored hope for Tyrone. :twisted:

[get louder at lambeau]

You are not a rare, special snowflake.

We are all special.

http://www.qcms.org/images/mrrogers_image.gif

Your mom thinks you are the greatest.

Appropriate response- "Your mom thinks I'm the greatest too."

[MJZiggy]

Wow that mystery guy in Gtown is REALLY a mystery. Even I don't know who you're referring to.

Really? Wasn't there some guy you saw occasionally, wanted to meet more, but couldn't seem to run into him..or something like that. You knew his work vicinity but not where he worked.

ty remembers something like that.

Ah, I remember him. Let's just say he didn't like cupcakes and I need a man with a bit of a sweet tooth.

You just restored hope for Tyrone. :twisted:

Nah. Fritz.

[hoosier]

Bumped for amusement and self-ridicule. After Tampa I was feeling the McCarthy hatred as much as almost anyone. It's always interesting to see how much things can change in less than two months in the NFL.

[retailguy]

Bumped for amusement and self-ridicule. After Tampa I was feeling the McCarthy hatred as much as almost anyone. It's always interesting to see how much things can change in less than two months in the NFL.

What's changed? Although I didn't re-read the thread, McCarthy's flaws are still his flaws. He didn't become the greatest thing since sliced bread over the past two months, did he? :shock:

[swede]

Eight games ago I was at least willing to concede that McCarthy was bad at motivating and too accepting of poor coaching and penalties. Those wounds have faded but the scars are still there.

I heard McCarthy talking about Mason Crosby today. His comments revealed that he understands that Mason is gifted with immense talent. He admired the kid's stubborn efforts to fix his problems. You could tell that MM would throw Crosby out in a heartbeat if a sixty-yard kick would win the NFC championship. I was impressed in a positive way and I thought the comments showed loyalty and a sturdy trust in his player.

I still think he has too much sturdy trust in a few of his coaches though.

(Cough-Campen-Cough)

[Scott Campbell]

What moron started this thread anyway?

[RashanGary]

My view:


McCarthy's strengths (And I think his strength's are Immense)
Understanding people - (This seems like the common denominator in most modern great coaches. Phil Jackson, Bellecheat, anyone who wants to win with todays modern athlete. . . They have to manage large egos and keep everyone pulling in the same direction. Woodson and Finley have both said things that could have turned into problems and both times McCarthy has made them into positives without hurting or isolating the player. We've never had a contract situation come before being on the field. We really don't have drama that ever gets bad enough to where it's effecting the team. I understand Brett Favre turned into a nightmare, but with the things Brett did, the dishonestly, I'm not so sure much could have stopped him from self destructing and destroying anyone near him. I give a pass because it's so isolated, so unusual and we ended up better for it in the long run.


Coaching the QB - What he did with both Favre and Rodgers was amazing.

Playcalling - In big games, when McCarthy needs to win, I feel like we can outsmart just about any defensive coach in the game.



McCarthy's weaknesses
Overconfidence/Ego/Stubbornness - For all of McCarthy's talk about handling success, I believe him when he says it's the hardest thing to do, hardest for him anyway. I feel like after success he can get cocky. After 2007, I think he was a little cocky with how seamlessly they could move on from Favre. After this preseason, I think he was a little cocky in how well his line could protect and stubborn in how long it took him to adjust his playcalling to stop playing to their weaknesses.



All in all, I think McCarthy is a brilliant people person and a brilliant problem solver (covering weaknesses and flexing to the team he has). I think he can also get caught up in the moment (how dominant Rodgers was in the preseason) and find himself a little blind. Once they hit rock bottom, and McCarthy accepted that his line wasn't good enough to throw so many deep passes, I think he showed his brilliance by solving the problem and getting his guys in position to succeed. He's learned some lessons. I can't say I'm going to fully buy into everythign he does, can't say I think he's the best coach in the NFL, but I do think he has a chance. I'm ready to give him some more time to try. Love the Capers hiring too!! My McCarhty meter is kind of high, probably about a 7 right now. 8 weeks ago it was a 4, so I'm not sold on him, but I like him enough to not want him fired just yet. I think he could win a SB. I think he could be great. Sherman, for all his management strengths, I don't think he could have ever been great unless he was only a manager, not a valuable member of the game planning.

[cheesner]

Following JH's theme

McCarthy's strengths
adaptable - Able to match scheme to the players. Able to scheme against other teams. Just good football sense.

Team Motivation - He kept the team together and competitive, even in the 2 loosing seasons, the team played well even to the end.

Improvement - MM is a guy who learns from his mistakes. Each season I see him become better and better. I did not like the hire to begin with, although he is the type of coach I like. Hard nose, innovative, and motivational. I was wrong about him being a good motivator. The reason I didn't like the hire is because I thought he wasn't ready. I didn't care for the fact that he did not have that much success as a OC in his previous two jobs at SF and NO. He did good. But not great. I am very happy with the way he has progressed and think he is above average at this point and if he continues, as I expect him to, he may well be in the top 5 of coaches in a year or two.



McCarthy's weeknesses
Precision - His team is sloppy. Lots of penalties and mental/communication break downs. Personally, I think he is trying to do too much with the team. He needs to cut down on the playbook and practice fewer plays, do them better, and when you got those to a point where you can't screw em up, then add more. Whats the saying 'Don't practice till you get it right, practice till you can't get it wrong.'

Fire I thought MM would be like Cowher in this area. Maybe just a personal preference, but I would like to see him get more fired up at times. He doesn't have to go Denny Green but something.

[hoosier]

Bumped for amusement and self-ridicule. After Tampa I was feeling the McCarthy hatred as much as almost anyone. It's always interesting to see how much things can change in less than two months in the NFL.

What's changed? Although I didn't re-read the thread, McCarthy's flaws are still his flaws. He didn't become the greatest thing since sliced bread over the past two months, did he? :shock:

I wouldn't go that far but I would guess that he has regained most of the credit with Packer supporters that he seemed ready to squander seven weeks ago. Even if GB loses this week or next--and anything short of reaching the NFC Championship would be a disappointment right now, it seems to me--I still think the turnaround in the second half of the season will quiet most of the voices that were calling for McCarthy's firing back in mid November. No matter how you look at it, a 7-1 finish is a strong statement about this team and where it is headed.

[hoosier]

Another way to respond to Retail's question ("What has changed?") is that over the last eight games we have learned that McCarthy's tenure in GB has been plagued by two major problems: a porous run defense (2008) and porous pass protection (first half of 2009). When those problems have not been evident, the results have been almost phenomenal (13-3, 7-1). In other words, we have learned that most if not all of the other problems associated with McCarthy's team--dumb penalties, occasional strange play calling, impatience with the running game--are annoying but not debilitating. Special teams breakdowns (which have continued in the second half and are more than just annoying IMO) are the one area that doesn't fit neatly into this scheme of mine.

[mngolf19]

My view:



Playcalling - In big games, when McCarthy needs to win, I feel like we can outsmart just about any defensive coach in the game.



Once they hit rock bottom, and McCarthy accepted that his line wasn't good enough to throw so many deep passes, I think he showed his brilliance by solving the problem and getting his guys in position to succeed.

JH, need to ask you a question on this. On the first item, what would be your data to support this?

On the second item, you think he showed his brilliance? Any dumbass could have solved the issue the way you stated it and I believe many on this forum did.

[Scott Campbell]

We weren't playing all that well even in the wins through the first 8 games. This team has played at a very high level since the Tampa nightmare - even in the loss against Pit. And I think were still getting better. That's what very young teams do.