Colledge put on notice

[Partial]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/70680207.html

[Freak Out]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/70680207.html

Damn our offensive line is in a shambles right now.

[CaliforniaCheez]

http://media.journalinteractive.com/images/mjs-packers14-17-of-hoffman.jpg-packers14.jpg

Guard Daryn Colledge of the Green Bay Packers has been put on notice that his starting job would be in jeopardy if he doesn't pick up his play starting Sunday against the San Francisco 49ers at Lambeau Field.

[Smidgeon]

Things like this always make me wonder: why would being put on notice for your starting job be enough motivation to perform better? If it was that small of a thing, wouldn't he already be doing it by now? Surely he knows he's getting owned. In his fourth year (fourth, right?), I would expect that he knows what has to get done. And if he isn't doing that is it because of ability or desire? And if it's because of desire, why would he be content with subpar performances? And if he's content with subpar performances, why is he still starting at all? So many things to wonder...

[PackerTimer]

Colledge has responded pretty well to stuff like this in the past, let's hope he does again.

His play has been disappointing to say the least. A lot of us and a lot of other people thought he was going to step up this year, hell at the beginnin of the year I thought he might turn into our best offensive lineman, shows what I know, but instead he's taken a step back.

I'm not sure if I like the coaching staff singling out Colledge. He hasn't played well but he's hardly the only guy out there who's played poorly. Sitton is the only guy who has been consistently good, the rest have been average at best. Now that Barbre is out it's like they need another whipping boy. Who are they going to turn to if Colledge gets benched? Colledge and Barbre have talent, I think the coaches need to take a look in the mirror.

[packrat]

How is it that he was supposed to have graded out as one of the best last year and this year he sucks? Sounds like a coaching issue to me.

[Bretsky]

How is it that he was supposed to have graded out as one of the best last year and this year he sucks? Sounds like a coaching issue to me.


Who was or OL coach last year ?

Colledge has been lights out and horrid in spurts. He seems to bonce back when it seems like he's going to get benched

[Smidgeon]

How is it that he was supposed to have graded out as one of the best last year and this year he sucks? Sounds like a coaching issue to me.

Honestly, I hope it's a coaching issue. Because if he has the talent to be good on the O-line, I almost think it's easier to solve that by replacing the O-line coach than it is to keep drafting O-lineman and hoping they have that tenacious self-motivating gene.

[PackerTimer]

How is it that he was supposed to have graded out as one of the best last year and this year he sucks? Sounds like a coaching issue to me.

Honestly, I hope it's a coaching issue. Because if he has the talent to be good on the O-line, I almost think it's easier to solve that by replacing the O-line coach than it is to keep drafting O-lineman and hoping they have that tenacious self-motivating gene.

I don't think it's a problem with motivation or tenaciousness, He, and the rest of the lone, just seem to have incredible mental breakdowns. Just about every player on the offensive line is playing poorly. Spitz wasn't playing well the first few games, Clifton hasn't played particularly well, we all know Barbre struggled, the tight ends have blocked poorly. Colledge is far from the only one.

[pbmax]

Things like this always make me wonder: why would being put on notice for your starting job be enough motivation to perform better? If it was that small of a thing, wouldn't he already be doing it by now? Surely he knows he's getting owned. In his fourth year (fourth, right?), I would expect that he knows what has to get done. And if he isn't doing that is it because of ability or desire? And if it's because of desire, why would he be content with subpar performances? And if he's content with subpar performances, why is he still starting at all? So many things to wonder...
The story angle and headline do not always match the coach's message. An editor or writer might have determined to do a story on Colledge today and together the writer an editor come up with an angle. The headline that follows one further step removed from reality. In this case, notice there is not one quote from McCarthy (or anyone else) that Colledge is one bad performance away from losing his job.

But McGinn does state this in a reported article carrying his byline as a declarative sentence. So he is leaving himself no wiggle room. He must have a source he believes. McGinn's game tape review have consistently given a bad review of DC's performance. So have my eyeballs in half his games.

McCarthy does willingly discuss options of replacing his LG. So the story would seem to be legit. Unless the coach was misled, they are lighting a fire under Colledge publicly. The private messages have likely been worn out already.

[pbmax]

How is it that he was supposed to have graded out as one of the best last year and this year he sucks? Sounds like a coaching issue to me.
:shock: Can you explain how the coaches who taught him to perform well at the pro level have now put him into reverse?

[PlantPage55]

Things like this always make me wonder: why would being put on notice for your starting job be enough motivation to perform better? If it was that small of a thing, wouldn't he already be doing it by now?

I wonder the same thing whenever someone bitches about Mike McCarthy not doing anything to fix our penalty problems. These players aren't stupid.

[Smidgeon]

These players aren't stupid.

Debatable. The Jake Allen thread would totally dispute that claim. And Jolly's refusal to change the way he played after headbutting an opponent. Those don't exactly inspire Rhodes Scholars...

But I get your point.

[Fritz]

This is a case in point as to why it can be in some respects difficult to criticize Thompson too much on the offensive line. As a couple posters noted, last year Colledge played really well in the second half and seemed poised to become the Packers' best offensive lineman. Couple that with Sitton and an improving Spitz, and there was reason to be optimistic. Clifton, too, was supposedly healthier than he'd been in a long time.

At the beginning of the season it appeared that four of the five line spots were solid and Barbre was the question mark. Clifton's slippage and Colledge's msytifying free fall into mediocrity and worse were not predicted in many, if any, places.

If Colledge was good last year, clearly he has talent. I knew Will Whitticker, and he's no Will Whitticker.

The mystery of Colledge is probably the biggest factor in this season's offensive line woes. That, and the consistent push DE's get on whoever is playing offensive tackle for the Pack.

[mraynrand]

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Leadership.jpg

[Bretsky]

This is a case in point as to why it can be in some respects difficult to criticize Thompson too much on the offensive line. As a couple posters noted, last year Colledge played really well in the second half and seemed poised to become the Packers' best offensive lineman. Couple that with Sitton and an improving Spitz, and there was reason to be optimistic. Clifton, too, was supposedly healthier than he'd been in a long time.

At the beginning of the season it appeared that four of the five line spots were solid and Barbre was the question mark. Clifton's slippage and Colledge's msytifying free fall into mediocrity and worse were not predicted in many, if any, places.

If Colledge was good last year, clearly he has talent. I knew Will Whitticker, and he's no Will Whitticker.

The mystery of Colledge is probably the biggest factor in this season's offensive line woes. That, and the consistent push DE's get on whoever is playing offensive tackle for the Pack.


So the same coach that coaches DC to all that massive improvement gets ingnored for last year and takes the bullets this year ? I don't buy it.

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

[gbgary]

it's clear that ink has a higher priority than anything else.

[Smidgeon]

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

How do you know it is TT and not the coaches?

[Scott Campbell]

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

How do you know it is TT and not the coaches?



Does it matter? The buck stops with the GM.

[Smidgeon]

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

How do you know it is TT and not the coaches?



Does it matter? The buck stops with the GM.

To the extent that it's his job to find the right HC. It's the HC's job to find the right assistant coaches, and if the right assistant coaches aren't found or can't get the job done, either the HC needs to start changing things, or the GM needs to put pressure on the HC.

[Waldo]

Things have changed a little.

Colledge is clearly ~10 pounds heavier this year than previous years. He used to be hands down the most mobile lineman on the field. What made Colledge good was not his work on the LOS. He was an acceptable pass blocker, and could get some push, and had top notch tech to seal off big hogs in the run game, but he was not a pile driver. When he got off a combo block into the 2nd level, he planted LB's on their ass. He was quick and agile in space, they had no chance against him. His bulking up has sapped some of his speed and balance, he's no longer the 2nd level demon that he was, and his pass blocking has declined with the weight gain as well.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It all may be academic. Colledge may be playing CENTER before the season is through.

From Stubby's 11/20 presser...

(Is Wells OK to go?)
Yes, I thought Scott practiced well today. Unless something changes when we go back inside, into the training room, I fully anticipate that he'll go and start.

(Did Dietrich-Smith hurt himself yesterday?)
Dietrich, yeah, he had a tough time yesterday. He fought through practice, and I'm hopeful that he'll be ready to go for Sunday. He's pretty banged up.

(You don't have Jason, so who's your fourth-string center if it comes to that?)
Daryn Colledge. Daryn worked some there yesterday and has always worked through our quarterback-center exchange drills. Daryn has been prepared for that for some time.

[Bretsky]

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

How do you know it is TT and not the coaches?


Same question back at ya
Nobody knows for sure
But TT has had five years now; the results on the trenches are not good
And the OL that once showed a bit or promise was coached by the same guy

[Smidgeon]

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

How do you know it is TT and not the coaches?


Same question back at ya
Nobody knows for sure
But TT has had five years now; the results on the trenches are not good
And the OL that once showed a bit or promise was coached by the same guy

The only people I'm not making excuses for is the O-line and the O-line coach. Everyone else, there just isn't enough data to point at.

[Bretsky]

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

How do you know it is TT and not the coaches?


Same question back at ya
Nobody knows for sure
But TT has had five years now; the results on the trenches are not good
And the OL that once showed a bit or promise was coached by the same guy

The only people I'm not making excuses for is the O-line and the O-line coach. Everyone else, there just isn't enough data to point at.

I just add the GM to the list because IMO the the cup is not full enough with talent

[Smidgeon]

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

How do you know it is TT and not the coaches?


Same question back at ya
Nobody knows for sure
But TT has had five years now; the results on the trenches are not good
And the OL that once showed a bit or promise was coached by the same guy

The only people I'm not making excuses for is the O-line and the O-line coach. Everyone else, there just isn't enough data to point at.

I just add the GM to the list because IMO the the cup is not full enough with talent

You and I have this knack of seeing each issue just similarly, yet slightly differently. ;)

Personally, I think the talent is there. I think that because there have been flashes of brilliance. If there's flashes, there can be consistency, and I think the consistency needs to come from the coaches. You see it happening in the backup running backs with Bennett. When Jackson and Wynn first came, they were a liability in blitz pickups. Now? Now they're great. That's coaching. There have been quite a few O-line picks in the draft from TT. I would think that there is no way that they're all devoid of talent. I just think the coaches can't pull it out consistently...

[Fritz]

This is a case in point as to why it can be in some respects difficult to criticize Thompson too much on the offensive line. As a couple posters noted, last year Colledge played really well in the second half and seemed poised to become the Packers' best offensive lineman. Couple that with Sitton and an improving Spitz, and there was reason to be optimistic. Clifton, too, was supposedly healthier than he'd been in a long time.

At the beginning of the season it appeared that four of the five line spots were solid and Barbre was the question mark. Clifton's slippage and Colledge's msytifying free fall into mediocrity and worse were not predicted in many, if any, places.

If Colledge was good last year, clearly he has talent. I knew Will Whitticker, and he's no Will Whitticker.

The mystery of Colledge is probably the biggest factor in this season's offensive line woes. That, and the consistent push DE's get on whoever is playing offensive tackle for the Pack.


So the same coach that coaches DC to all that massive improvement gets ingnored for last year and takes the bullets this year ? I don't buy it.

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL

I'm not blaming the coach here. What I'm saying is that it's the GM's job to find and procure talent, and based on Colledge's last season, particularly the last half, it's clear the guy has enough talent.

I did say his free fall has been mystifying. That means it's unclear what the hell happened or why.

[retailguy]

I put colledge on notice 3 freaking years ago. Nice that the rest of you and the Packer staff have finally caught up with me.

[mraynrand]

Things have changed a little.

Colledge is clearly ~10 pounds heavier this year than previous years. He used to be hands down the most mobile lineman on the field. What made Colledge good was not his work on the LOS. He was an acceptable pass blocker, and could get some push, and had top notch tech to seal off big hogs in the run game, but he was not a pile driver. When he got off a combo block into the 2nd level, he planted LB's on their ass. He was quick and agile in space, they had no chance against him. His bulking up has sapped some of his speed and balance, he's no longer the 2nd level demon that he was, and his pass blocking has declined with the weight gain as well.

10 pounds is responsible for all that in a 300 pound guy? I don't buy it - I get a good workout, a nights' sleep, drop a coil and I lose five pounds and I hover around 215 to start. Plus, shouldn't most of that extra 10 pounds be muscle? What gives?

[Partial]

Things have changed a little.

Colledge is clearly ~10 pounds heavier this year than previous years. He used to be hands down the most mobile lineman on the field. What made Colledge good was not his work on the LOS. He was an acceptable pass blocker, and could get some push, and had top notch tech to seal off big hogs in the run game, but he was not a pile driver. When he got off a combo block into the 2nd level, he planted LB's on their ass. He was quick and agile in space, they had no chance against him. His bulking up has sapped some of his speed and balance, he's no longer the 2nd level demon that he was, and his pass blocking has declined with the weight gain as well.

10 pounds is responsible for all that in a 300 pound guy? I don't buy it - I get a good workout, a nights' sleep, drop a coil and I lose five pounds and I hover around 215 to start. Plus, shouldn't most of that extra 10 pounds be muscle? What gives?

I tend to agree with this. a 3% increase in body weight, especially considering probably half is lean mass (otherwise why bother, honestly), would have minimal effect on athletic performance imo.

[SnakeLH2006]

Think Colledge would take the vet min. to resign? He'd be a good bench option. :shock:

[Waldo]

Things have changed a little.

Colledge is clearly ~10 pounds heavier this year than previous years. He used to be hands down the most mobile lineman on the field. What made Colledge good was not his work on the LOS. He was an acceptable pass blocker, and could get some push, and had top notch tech to seal off big hogs in the run game, but he was not a pile driver. When he got off a combo block into the 2nd level, he planted LB's on their ass. He was quick and agile in space, they had no chance against him. His bulking up has sapped some of his speed and balance, he's no longer the 2nd level demon that he was, and his pass blocking has declined with the weight gain as well.

10 pounds is responsible for all that in a 300 pound guy? I don't buy it - I get a good workout, a nights' sleep, drop a coil and I lose five pounds and I hover around 215 to start. Plus, shouldn't most of that extra 10 pounds be muscle? What gives?

I tend to agree with this. a 3% increase in body weight, especially considering probably half is lean mass (otherwise why bother, honestly), would have minimal effect on athletic performance imo.

He did gain weight. That has been said by the coaches and is apparent looking at the players side by side. He is definitely slower. His pass blocking has declined and he is nowhere near the 2nd level blocker he was last year. While one might not have caused the other completely, it plays a role. He is too young to be "slowing down", how else do you explain his declining athleticism.

Hawk is only 5-10 pounds heavier than he was when he was drafted; you cannot tell me that he can run just as fast today as he could his rookie year. He too is noticeably bigger, and noticeably slower. For the job that he has been doing it has helped him a great deal though.

[pbmax]

This is a case in point as to why it can be in some respects difficult to criticize Thompson too much on the offensive line. As a couple posters noted, last year Colledge played really well in the second half and seemed poised to become the Packers' best offensive lineman. Couple that with Sitton and an improving Spitz, and there was reason to be optimistic. Clifton, too, was supposedly healthier than he'd been in a long time.

At the beginning of the season it appeared that four of the five line spots were solid and Barbre was the question mark. Clifton's slippage and Colledge's msytifying free fall into mediocrity and worse were not predicted in many, if any, places.

If Colledge was good last year, clearly he has talent. I knew Will Whitticker, and he's no Will Whitticker.

The mystery of Colledge is probably the biggest factor in this season's offensive line woes. That, and the consistent push DE's get on whoever is playing offensive tackle for the Pack.


So the same coach that coaches DC to all that massive improvement gets ingnored for last year and takes the bullets this year ? I don't buy it.

I'm not making excuses for TT and this OL
Forget excusing TT, he allowed (or caused) the roster to be constructed poorly at tackle this year, among other things that have gone wrong. Including the role that the RT position has had in complicating the decision to replace Colledge.

But does it make sense to blame inconsistency on him? That would seem to be the realm of the player and coach, almost exclusively. Colledge isn't dumb and he has the talent. Colledge had every reason to succeed this year and he fluctuates like a sine wave. He was lights out at times last year and I think McGinn graded him out as the best lineman.

[Fritz]

I put colledge on notice 3 freaking years ago. Nice that the rest of you and the Packer staff have finally caught up with me.

You're so much ahead of everyone, Retail. So please do give us your insight regarding Raji, Lang, and anyone else whose future seems obscure to us mere mortals.

[mraynrand]

I like this like from the JS about the Niners LG:

"The weakest link appears to be LG David Baas. "Bad football player," one scout said. "He's gotten heavy and he's not a quick-footed guy to begin with. He's got no quickness, no twitch to him. To me, this year, he's a complete reject.""

All they would have had to add is my favorite scout description: "Bad body." Let's hope Jenkins eats this guy's lunch.

[pbmax]

I like this like from the JS about the Niners LG:

"The weakest link appears to be LG David Baas. "Bad football player," one scout said. "He's gotten heavy and he's not a quick-footed guy to begin with. He's got no quickness, no twitch to him. To me, this year, he's a complete reject.""

All they would have had to add is my favorite scout description: "Bad body." Let's hope Jenkins eats this guy's lunch.
But Mike Singletary is SO intense, it more than makes up for mere physical deficiencies like this. Just look at his eyes. Imagine having to pass by him with that look on the sideline. Makes you a better player just because of the shivering.

[rbaloha1]

Unsure of Colledge's decline. Upper body strength was always an issue. Still appears to be an issue. Shoiuld not be resigned.

TT must concentrate on the o-line for the upcoming draft.

[The Shadow]

I really wish we would harken back to the old Redskin's days, and start signing a few hogs for the offensive line. Finesse, when it works, is certainly effective, but we play in the NFC North, and the 2nd halves of seasons need road graders.
The draft always features guys who don't pass the 'eyeball test', and possess 'athletic ability' - but are pure hardnosed FOOTBALL players.
Let's get some!