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[Bretsky]

Did a little more pot stirring in a thought provoking article today

Noted twice in the past 5 years the Pack had a rough decision on draft day drafting one pick ahead of SF.

They picked AJ Hawk over Vernon Davis
They picked BJ Raji over Michael Crabtree

Implied SF got the better of them on both decisions
Noted GB probably would not have Jermichael Finley...but GB's offense would be near invincible with Davis, who seems developed, and Crabtree, who is receiving great reviews from scouts on his performance so far w/o hardly any training/practice

[pbmax]

An argument for drafting the best player available? Hardly revolutionary.

But its way premature to judge either SF headcase at this point. And Finley makes Davis a luxury.

[Fritz]

Davis said he was glad the Pack didn't draft him. Can anyone say he'd then sign and develop here as he did in SF? And by the way, his first two years were a waste.

Hawk is not as bad as people think. He's actually a very, very solid linebacker.

With the pick of Finley, I think it makes this debate moot.

And after all the times people say the game is won and lost in the trenches, and after all the bitching about Thompson not using a high draft pick on a lineman of the offensive variety, now in the same breath we're going to say Thompson should've taken a wide receiver? No thanks. Raji is playing better and better and in this system is not going to get the chances to shine one on one as he would in other systems. He's fine. I'm glad the Pack took him instead of Crabtree.

Oh, and how about that year that the Niners took one QB and the Packers too another, and SF got first choice? Shall we debate that while we're comparing San Fran and Green Bay's drafting the last few years?

[Bretsky]

An argument for drafting the best player available? Hardly revolutionary.

But its way premature to judge either SF headcase at this point. And Finley makes Davis a luxury.


Actually if they were both in GB Davis would make Finley a luxury IMO. He's one of the top TE's in the NFL this year with his attitude makeover

[Bretsky]

Davis said he was glad the Pack didn't draft him. Can anyone say he'd then sign and develop here as he did in SF? And by the way, his first two years were a waste.

Hawk is not as bad as people think. He's actually a very, very solid linebacker.

With the pick of Finley, I think it makes this debate moot.

And after all the times people say the game is won and lost in the trenches, and after all the bitching about Thompson not using a high draft pick on a lineman of the offensive variety, now in the same breath we're going to say Thompson should've taken a wide receiver? No thanks. Raji is playing better and better and in this system is not going to get the chances to shine one on one as he would in other systems. He's fine. I'm glad the Pack took him instead of Crabtree.

Oh, and how about that year that the Niners took one QB and the Packers too another, and SF got first choice? Shall we debate that while we're comparing San Fran and Green Bay's drafting the last few years?


Davis didn't say that til after the draft and never gave an indication he didn't want to come here before the draft. He's an unreal talent; actually one might argue SF has done a poor job developing him. With that being said, I was on record many many times saying draft HAWK. With that said he's very average and also probably would do better in the 4-3.

Playing devil's advocate, the year SF took a QB and Green Bay took a QB was the ideal example of how taking the BPA can work. Green Bay decided to buck that belief last year

I've been critical of TT for doing a shitty job on the OL......but I've never focues on the need to use a high pick on one.........there is this other avenue

called

....................sssshhhhhhhh

[pbmax]

An argument for drafting the best player available? Hardly revolutionary.

But its way premature to judge either SF headcase at this point. And Finley makes Davis a luxury.


Actually if they were both in GB Davis would make Finley a luxury IMO. He's one of the top TE's in the NFL this year with his attitude makeover
Then Desmond Bishop would be your starting Buck ILB and the Packer run defense would be the poorer for it.

Davis may turn out to be a All-Pro for a couple of seasons but for now:

Hawk + Finley > Bishop + Davis

This assumes Finley stays healthy.

[PlantPage55]

And why are we so sure that Crabtree was a better pick vs. Raji?

Come on. It's way too early for that. And with the way we're protecting our QB, I think another WR would be the luxury.

[Zool]

Just think how much better the 90's Packers would have been with ANY pick except Tony Mandarich.

Look I'm a professional newspaper writer now too.

[wist43]

I liked Davis over Hawk, and I liked Raji over Crabtree. They'll all be productive.

Davis and Hawk both have warts. Raji and Crabtree both have big upside... that's the long and short of it.

[Fritz]

If Shermy had kept Charles Lee, no one would be clamoring for Crabtree right now.

[The Shadow]

I prefer the Packer picks.
No problem with Hawk over Davis or Raji over Crabtree,
And the pick of Finley is gravy,

[mission]

Just think how much better the 90's Packers would have been with ANY pick except Tony Mandarich.

Look I'm a professional newspaper writer now too.

:lol: :lol:

[pbmax]

If Shermy had kept Charles Lee, no one would be clamoring for Crabtree right now.
Didn't he keep getting Freeman stopped by the police? Or was that Charles Jordan?

[Fred's Slacks]

Part of VD's attitude adjustment was only possible IMO because he has a coach like Singletary who will call him out and hold him accountable. Would M3 have done the same thing? :?:

[rbaloha1]

Preferred Davis over Hawk. Preferred Crabtree over Raji.

Finley has a chance to be a very good player but needs to remain healthy.

[CaliforniaCheez]

An argument for drafting the best player available? Hardly revolutionary.

But its way premature to judge either SF headcase at this point. And Finley makes Davis a luxury.

We have Havner!!

[PlantPage55]

edit

[Smidgeon]

And why are we so sure that Crabtree was a better pick vs. Raji?

Come on. It's way too early for that.

+1

I don't care how early reviews look on either player. Neither of them have completed even one complete season of football and someone's already trying to anoint a victor? That's ridiculous.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just think how much better the 90's Packers would have been with ANY pick except Tony Mandarich.

Look I'm a professional newspaper writer now too.

Shoulda picked Sammie Smith. The coke in GB and the rest of the state woulda been a much better!

[SnakeLH2006]

I liked Davis over Hawk, and I liked Raji over Crabtree. They'll all be productive.

Davis and Hawk both have warts. Raji and Crabtree both have big upside... that's the long and short of it.

Very well put Wist. I'd agree with that.

[Lurker64]

I'm confused. Why would McGinn suggest we spend the majority of our premium picks on offensive skill players, when the offensive skill positions are far from the weak link of this team?

The offensive line wouldn't block any better with Crabtree and Davis, we wouldn't run the ball more effectively with Crabtree and Davis, and the defense wouldn't play any better with Crabtree and Davis.

We seem to do just fine with the skill position guys we nabbed in the second and third rounds, and I really doubt the defense would do as well with the guys they could get in the second and third rounds. Hell, 6'1 215 lb wide receivers with some ball skills are a hell of a lot harder to find than guys with NT power and body shape who can rush the passer.

[sharpe1027]

Davis didn't say that til after the draft and never gave an indication he didn't want to come here before the draft.

Not publicly. Hopefully that kind of resentment would at least be hinted at and noticed by the Packers, if they were seriously considering him.

[Scott Campbell]

And why are we so sure that Crabtree was a better pick vs. Raji?

Come on. It's way too early for that.

+1

I don't care how early reviews look on either player. Neither of them have completed even one complete season of football and someone's already trying to anoint a victor? That's ridiculous.



Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

[mraynrand]

I'm confused. Hell, 6'1 215 lb wide receivers with some ball skills are a hell of a lot harder to find than guys with NT power and body shape who can rush the passer.

I assume this is sarcasm.

What is really hard to find are guys with NT power and body shape who are deep threats with ball skills.

[sharpe1027]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.

[pbmax]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

[Zool]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

Rewound it a couple times myself. He pushed right hand directly on Al. Got big seperation from the goal line to 5 yards deep.

[sharpe1027]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

I thought I saw it on both angles, but I guess I could have been mistaken. Al looked pissed about it, which tells me a lot. It looked like he gave a nudge right when they both were timing their jump. The thing is, that push throws Al off and gives Crabby-Mc-holdout a boost, a doubling effect of even a little push. It doesn't take much to make a lot of space on plays like that.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Davis said he was glad the Pack didn't draft him. Can anyone say he'd then sign and develop here as he did in SF? And by the way, his first two years were a waste.

Hawk is not as bad as people think. He's actually a very, very solid linebacker.

With the pick of Finley, I think it makes this debate moot.

And after all the times people say the game is won and lost in the trenches, and after all the bitching about Thompson not using a high draft pick on a lineman of the offensive variety, now in the same breath we're going to say Thompson should've taken a wide receiver? No thanks. Raji is playing better and better and in this system is not going to get the chances to shine one on one as he would in other systems. He's fine. I'm glad the Pack took him instead of Crabtree.

Oh, and how about that year that the Niners took one QB and the Packers too another, and SF got first choice? Shall we debate that while we're comparing San Fran and Green Bay's drafting the last few years?

Great post there Fritz!

Takes DL longer to develop than WR, therefore WAY to early to tell yet. Raji also had to deal with an ankle injury

sidenote: I think it's tremendously ironic that so many people bitch about TT's method of drafting, when 5 years ago, everyone was criticizing Sherman for trading up and coming away with only 5-6 players and then overspending on free agents, or soon-to-be free agents.

[Smidgeon]

And why are we so sure that Crabtree was a better pick vs. Raji?

Come on. It's way too early for that.

+1

I don't care how early reviews look on either player. Neither of them have completed even one complete season of football and someone's already trying to anoint a victor? That's ridiculous.

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

Yep. And Raji has more sacks. :mrgreen:

[pbmax]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

Rewound it a couple times myself. He pushed right hand directly on Al. Got big seperation from the goal line to 5 yards deep.
OK, well that makes some sense, because I was looking for a shove in the endzone right before the jump. I probably missed the play at the five.

[sharpe1027]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

Rewound it a couple times myself. He pushed right hand directly on Al. Got big seperation from the goal line to 5 yards deep.
OK, well that makes some sense, because I was looking for a shove in the endzone right before the jump. I probably missed the play at the five.

There was contact earlier, but I thought that the most important contact happened right about at the goal line. Look at his hands on the play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyc8qnABhWw

[channtheman]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

Rewound it a couple times myself. He pushed right hand directly on Al. Got big seperation from the goal line to 5 yards deep.
OK, well that makes some sense, because I was looking for a shove in the endzone right before the jump. I probably missed the play at the five.

There was contact earlier, but I thought that the most important contact happened right about at the goal line. Look at his hands on the play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyc8qnABhWw

That play pissed me off big time, and I was surprised the announcers or nobody else even saw it.

[mraynrand]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

Rewound it a couple times myself. He pushed right hand directly on Al. Got big seperation from the goal line to 5 yards deep.
OK, well that makes some sense, because I was looking for a shove in the endzone right before the jump. I probably missed the play at the five.

There was contact earlier, but I thought that the most important contact happened right about at the goal line. Look at his hands on the play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyc8qnABhWw

Watching the game live I told my son it was a push off, but was the variety that WRs typically get away with. What's the old line "Learn the rulebook then learn what violations you can get away with." that was a perfect example of the latter. The best WRs will be able to use a little push to their advantage. Sucks to be a DB sometimes.

[sharpe1027]

Watching the game live I told my son it was a push off, but was the variety that WRs typically get away with. What's the old line "Learn the rulebook then learn what violations you can get away with." that was a perfect example of the latter. The best WRs will be able to use a little push to their advantage. Sucks to be a DB sometimes.

That's certainly true. Murders and thieves also get away with violations. They're still murders and thieves, regardless.

[channtheman]

It's funny though watching that play because you see Harris is stuck on Crabtree in great position for the INT, and then all of a sudden WTF? Crabtree is wide open now!

[SnakeLH2006]

Yep. And Raji has more sacks. :mrgreen:

:shock: Are you implying that after Crabby's diva :violin: holdout...gulp...he might not have a sack after all? :lol: I'd agree, there, Smidgeon.

[pbmax]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

Rewound it a couple times myself. He pushed right hand directly on Al. Got big seperation from the goal line to 5 yards deep.
OK, well that makes some sense, because I was looking for a shove in the endzone right before the jump. I probably missed the play at the five.

There was contact earlier, but I thought that the most important contact happened right about at the goal line. Look at his hands on the play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyc8qnABhWw
OK, you have convinced me. At the one or two he got shove in a step before they jumped. It was a nice move by the rookie.

[bobblehead]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

If he wasn't pushed Al has the unique ability to come to a complete stop in one step after running full speed for 40 yards.

[mraynrand]

Well Crabtree has caught more TD passes.

He's got the Randy Million push-off down already. Might as well start making his bust for Canton.
Are you referring to the TD over Al? Because I was watching for that on the replay and didn't see it. From the original angle it seemed that Al got moved, but from the endzone it looked like there were no hands but that he got a bad jump.

If he wasn't pushed Al has the unique ability to come to a complete stop in one step after running full speed for 40 yards.

That's a good way to rupture a tendon or ligament. Watch out there, Al.

[get louder at lambeau]

I'm confused. Hell, 6'1 215 lb wide receivers with some ball skills are a hell of a lot harder to find than guys with NT power and body shape who can rush the passer.

I assume this is sarcasm.

What is really hard to find are guys with NT power and body shape who are deep threats with ball skills.

...like Johnny Jolly.

[bobblehead]

yea, after watching that replay its blatantly obvious. Al is looking up, playing the ball, and suddenly he is stopped dead in his tracks as Crab seperates (read pushes) and jumps up for the catch. How the official can miss that is beyond me.

[SnakeLH2006]

yea, after watching that replay its blatantly obvious. Al is looking up, playing the ball, and suddenly he is stopped dead in his tracks as Crab seperates (read pushes) and jumps up for the catch. How the official can miss that is beyond me.

Yeah, I noticed that too, BobbleHead. Crabs looked like a tree trunk running down the field just pushing off (and barely noticeable). He's about what I thought, good hands, good base, strong as hell...but slow. Kinda reminds me of Sterling, but Sterling looked much faster getting open down field and running away from people. Maybe he's more Michael Irvin....

[Fritz]

Does your avatar mean that Teats has got it in for McCarthy?

[SnakeLH2006]

Does your avatar mean that Teats has got it in for McCarthy?

It's hunting season. Ted is eyeing his prey for the long, cold winter months...I hope.