Grousing About 'Rats and Writers

[Fritz]

Just two Monday morning grumblings.

First, in the thread on the loss of Al Harris, a couple of posters implied that Thompson has failed to stock the roster well enough with corners, and now the team is screwed. They point to the drafting of Pat Lee and the playing of Bush as examples in support.

First, there's no way to tell how Lee would be playing had he not been put on IR. Maybe he'd be the dime back - it's impossible to say, really. Secondly, the team has lost Lee and Blackmon, so instead of having a 6th round rook out there, it might have been one or the other. Harris is not the first corner to go down; he's the third.

It's as if people are blaming Thompson for not having pro-bowlers on the fourth string. Tramon Williams - the nickel now stepping in - is a high quality replacement for Harris. How many teams would have a nickel back as good as Williams to step in?

My other issue has to do with Mike Vandermause's column, which severely tramples cause-and-effect with this passage:

"One play after Kampman was carted to the locker room in the third quarter, the 49ers scored their first touchdown. Two plays after Harris went down in a heap early in the fourth quarter, the 49ers scored their second touchdown. On the next series, the 49ers scored another touchdown to turn what had been a 30-10 rout into a nail-biter.

It was no coincidence the wheels came off the defensive wagon once Kampman and Harris departed."

WTF? Uh, Mike - that play right after Kampman was carted off, the one you cite as an example of how "the wheels came off"? - you know, the touchdown? Uh, who was covering Crabtree on that route? Oh - Al Harris - the guy whose absence you cite as reason the Packers fell apart, along with Kampman's absence. What sloppy writing.

If Vandermause had broken the play down and showed that the Niners picked specifically on Kampman's replacement for a t.d., you could say his absence caused a touchdown. Sure. But could you say much more than that without a deep analysis of how the Niners took advantage over the course of the rest of the game? No.

What an easy, sloppy article - no real thought, no analysis, just some vague and general claims that abuse any real notion of cause and effect.

There. I feel better now.

[ThunderDan]

Here is what I can't stand.

When the Vikings need an amazing TD throw by BF to beat SF at home they are AWESOME!

When the Packers are winning the whole game and SF never had the ball with a chance to take the lead in the second half we SUCKED!

Minnesota's schedule has looked a lot like ours. Only different MINN games BAL, PITT, and SEA. Packers have CHI, DAL and TB. They are the best team ever, we have played pansys and can't beat a good team.

[pbmax]

Vandermause, like most columnists, is simply required to take the three things that people will remember about the game (second half futility, Al Harris and Kampman's injury) and tie them together with a large red bow.

In a way, he is like an unfrozen caveman, looking at a thunderstorm in the sky and believing that God is throwing lightning bolts down from the Heavens because he just stepped on a crack. This is how a narrative is born. Poppinga, Jones, Obiozor, Bush and Underwood would need to be elected to the Hall of Fame after THIS YEAR to avoid this story. Even if the Packers win the Super Bowl, this will be the defining moment.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Just two Monday morning grumblings.


Its not the morning anymore. Did you wake up hungover and miss work ? :D

I didn't even see the article, but your point is valid.

[gbgary]

pacman jones is out there somewhere...waiting.

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[pbmax]

pacman jones is out there somewhere...waiting.

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http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:forums.corvetteforum.com/get/images/smilies/wink5.gif

He has always reminded me of Andre Rison. :lol:

[red]

the kampman loss in a sick and twisted way was probably a good thing for the team. i mean a 6th round rook looks almost as good as he did if not better. he was just the wrong puzzle piece for the hole that we were trying to pound him into.

now if we were still a 4-3 team it would be devastating

the injury hurts because we lost 2 team leaders, 2 talented vets, and we lost any trade value kampman had this offseason

they should have traded him before the deadline or before the season. TT dropped the ball on that as for as i'm concerned

pat lee is still someone i'm intrigued by. i liked the little i've seen of him. but he seems to always get hurt. another 2nd round pick that we aren't getting much out of.

[sharpe1027]

the kampman loss in a sick and twisted way was probably a good thing for the team. i mean a 6th round rook looks almost as good as he did if not better. he was just the wrong puzzle piece for the hole that we were trying to pound him into.

now if we were still a 4-3 team it would be devastating

the injury hurts because we lost 2 team leaders, 2 talented vets, and we lost any trade value kampman had this offseason

they should have traded him before the deadline or before the season. TT dropped the ball on that as for as i'm concerned

pat lee is still someone i'm intrigued by. i liked the little i've seen of him. but he seems to always get hurt. another 2nd round pick that we aren't getting much out of.

I'm not trying to nitpick, but I was high on Jones after he last game. Now I'm not so sure. I tried to watch him on several plays after Kamp went out and each time he got completely stoned. The O-lineman stood him up and then they just stood there for the duration of the play. Kampman would have at least have attempted a couple moves in that time.

[Scott Campbell]

the kampman loss in a sick and twisted way was probably a good thing for the team. i mean a 6th round rook looks almost as good as he did if not better. he was just the wrong puzzle piece for the hole that we were trying to pound him into.

now if we were still a 4-3 team it would be devastating

the injury hurts because we lost 2 team leaders, 2 talented vets, and we lost any trade value kampman had this offseason

they should have traded him before the deadline or before the season. TT dropped the ball on that as for as i'm concerned

pat lee is still someone i'm intrigued by. i liked the little i've seen of him. but he seems to always get hurt. another 2nd round pick that we aren't getting much out of.

I'm not trying to nitpick, but I was high on Jones after he last game. Now I'm not so sure. I tried to watch him on several plays after Kamp went out and each time he got completely stoned. The O-lineman stood him up and then they just stood there for the duration of the play. Kampman would have at least have attempted a couple moves in that time.



He's not a pass rusher. Though Aaron wasn't a cover guy.

[cheesner]

Just two Monday morning grumblings.

First, in the thread on the loss of Al Harris, a couple of posters implied that Thompson has failed to stock the roster well enough with corners, and now the team is screwed. They point to the drafting of Pat Lee and the playing of Bush as examples in support.

First, there's no way to tell how Lee would be playing had he not been put on IR. Maybe he'd be the dime back - it's impossible to say, really. Secondly, the team has lost Lee and Blackmon, so instead of having a 6th round rook out there, it might have been one or the other. Harris is not the first corner to go down; he's the third.

It's as if people are blaming Thompson for not having pro-bowlers on the fourth string. Tramon Williams - the nickel now stepping in - is a high quality replacement for Harris. How many teams would have a nickel back as good as Williams to step in?

My other issue has to do with Mike Vandermause's column, which severely tramples cause-and-effect with this passage:

"One play after Kampman was carted to the locker room in the third quarter, the 49ers scored their first touchdown. Two plays after Harris went down in a heap early in the fourth quarter, the 49ers scored their second touchdown. On the next series, the 49ers scored another touchdown to turn what had been a 30-10 rout into a nail-biter.

It was no coincidence the wheels came off the defensive wagon once Kampman and Harris departed."

WTF? Uh, Mike - that play right after Kampman was carted off, the one you cite as an example of how "the wheels came off"? - you know, the touchdown? Uh, who was covering Crabtree on that route? Oh - Al Harris - the guy whose absence you cite as reason the Packers fell apart, along with Kampman's absence. What sloppy writing.

If Vandermause had broken the play down and showed that the Niners picked specifically on Kampman's replacement for a t.d., you could say his absence caused a touchdown. Sure. But could you say much more than that without a deep analysis of how the Niners took advantage over the course of the rest of the game? No.

What an easy, sloppy article - no real thought, no analysis, just some vague and general claims that abuse any real notion of cause and effect.

There. I feel better now.
Procedure for analyzing anything:

1. Is it Packer related? Go to step 7
2. Study any background information
3. Research - gather data and statistics
4. Discuss with knowledgeable people
5. Draw conclusions from critical review and analysis of information/data
6. If not Packer related go to step 8
7. Blame it on TT as he is a terrible GM bent on destroying the Packers. He ran a HOF QB and the greatest NFL player ever out of town because he has a huge ego and refuses to spend any money. And he is gay.
8. Present conclusions

[sharpe1027]

He's not a pass rusher. Though Aaron wasn't a cover guy.

I thought I had read that he was supposed to have decent pass-rushing skills and that his coverage was only "solid". If he's not a pass-rusher, where does that leave him?

[Scott Campbell]

He's not a pass rusher. Though Aaron wasn't a cover guy.

I thought I had read that he was supposed to have decent pass-rushing skills and that his coverage was only "solid". If he's not a pass-rusher, where does that leave him?


I've only watched him on a couple of plays, but didn't notice any rush to speak of. Maybe I just need to see more of the guy.

[sharpe1027]

He's not a pass rusher. Though Aaron wasn't a cover guy.

I thought I had read that he was supposed to have decent pass-rushing skills and that his coverage was only "solid". If he's not a pass-rusher, where does that leave him?


I've only watched him on a couple of plays, but didn't notice any rush to speak of. Maybe I just need to see more of the guy.

Yeah, that's what I saw. I'm just not sure he's outstanding in coverage, or against the run either. Basically, right now I'm not sure he's much of anything except a good 40 time.

[ThunderDan]

He's not a pass rusher. Though Aaron wasn't a cover guy.

I thought I had read that he was supposed to have decent pass-rushing skills and that his coverage was only "solid". If he's not a pass-rusher, where does that leave him?


I've only watched him on a couple of plays, but didn't notice any rush to speak of. Maybe I just need to see more of the guy.

Yeah, that's what I saw. I'm just not sure he's outstanding in coverage, or against the run either. Basically, right now I'm not sure he's much of anything except a good 40 time.

He had a very good game against Dallas as a first time starter.

[sharpe1027]

He had a very good game against Dallas as a first time starter.

Yeah, that's why I thought well of him after that game. I'm just not sure after making an effort to watch him and then being disappointed with what I saw. Of course I'm not a scout/expert by any means.

[ThunderDan]

He had a very good game against Dallas as a first time starter.

Yeah, that's why I thought well of him after that game. I'm just not sure after making an effort to watch him and then being disappointed with what I saw. Of course I'm not a scout/expert by any means.

I really couldn't tell you either. Switching to the 3-4 has made watching the Packer D more difficult this year. Players "may" do more than one thing during the play unlike Mr. Sander's D.

[bobblehead]

the kampman loss in a sick and twisted way was probably a good thing for the team. i mean a 6th round rook looks almost as good as he did if not better. he was just the wrong puzzle piece for the hole that we were trying to pound him into.

now if we were still a 4-3 team it would be devastating

the injury hurts because we lost 2 team leaders, 2 talented vets, and we lost any trade value kampman had this offseason

they should have traded him before the deadline or before the season. TT dropped the ball on that as for as i'm concerned

pat lee is still someone i'm intrigued by. i liked the little i've seen of him. but he seems to always get hurt. another 2nd round pick that we aren't getting much out of.

I think you underestimate Kampman...although I think with Jones in there we gameplan him more for coverage and get to blitz the other LB's. Kamp was still the best LB/player we had as far as pressuring the QB goes. He has a multitude of moves and NEVER gets stonewalled. By the 3 count he always moved his man into the QB's face.

[bobblehead]

Here is what I can't stand.

When the Vikings need an amazing TD throw by BF to beat SF at home they are AWESOME!

When the Packers are winning the whole game and SF never had the ball with a chance to take the lead in the second half we SUCKED!

Minnesota's schedule has looked a lot like ours. Only different MINN games BAL, PITT, and SEA. Packers have CHI, DAL and TB. They are the best team ever, we have played pansys and can't beat a good team.

Let me explain it to you Dan...the pack really is horrible...should be 0-10 right now.

Chicago...we didn't win, they lost, the ridiculous fake punt call...Cutler throwing 4 picks...they gave us the game.

Detroit, St. Louis and Cleveland...please, they are simply so bad it doesn't count.

The cowboys showed that we just got lucky and caught them when their offense isn't clicking...this is evident by the fact they only got 7 points against Washington...and Washington sucks, therefore Dallas sucks, therefore the win doesn't count.

The niners are in disarray...sure, this was a must win for them, but they lost 4? straight....they might have been good early, but they are playing badly now...and we still let them back in the game....conclusion, the win doesn't count as anyone would have beaten San Fran this week.

so ultimately we are an 0-10 team!!!

[Scott Campbell]

Here is what I can't stand.

When the Vikings need an amazing TD throw by BF to beat SF at home they are AWESOME!

When the Packers are winning the whole game and SF never had the ball with a chance to take the lead in the second half we SUCKED!

Minnesota's schedule has looked a lot like ours. Only different MINN games BAL, PITT, and SEA. Packers have CHI, DAL and TB. They are the best team ever, we have played pansys and can't beat a good team.

Let me explain it to you Dan...the pack really is horrible...should be 0-10 right now.

Chicago...we didn't win, they lost, the ridiculous fake punt call...Cutler throwing 4 picks...they gave us the game.

Detroit, St. Louis and Cleveland...please, they are simply so bad it doesn't count.

The cowboys showed that we just got lucky and caught them when their offense isn't clicking...this is evident by the fact they only got 7 points against Washington...and Washington sucks, therefore Dallas sucks, therefore the win doesn't count.

The niners are in disarray...sure, this was a must win for them, but they lost 4? straight....they might have been good early, but they are playing badly now...and we still let them back in the game....conclusion, the win doesn't count as anyone would have beaten San Fran this week.

so ultimately we are an 0-10 team!!!


I see you've gone to the wist school of motivational speaking.

[Administrator]

I don't think you can lose players of Kampman's and Harris' stature and not have it hurt the team. That is impossible.

We've got enough linebackers that we can probably withstand the loss of Kampman. We did not really miss him against Dallas, which I found surprising.

Harris might be a different story. Williams played well when Harris was out with the spleen, so there is hope, but the nickel corner position just got weakened. How much remains to be seen.

[SnakeLH2006]

I don't think you can lose players of Kampman's and Harris' stature and not have it hurt the team. That is impossible.

We've got enough linebackers that we can probably withstand the loss of Kampman. We did not really miss him against Dallas, which I found surprising.

Harris might be a different story. Williams played well when Harris was out with the spleen, so there is hope, but the nickel corner position just got weakened. How much remains to be seen.

QFT. That's exactly what I've been saying lately, too. '

Both are great locker room leaders, but Kampy's value has been negated with the position change and the amount of LB's we have with different, yet special skillsets to throw out there. TWill (might) could hold his own at CB given the matchups week to week...but having to rely on an already questionable nickel-dime depth chart (Jarrett Bush, Underwood, etc.) is where the questions start and the fingernail chewing begins come Turkey Day.

[bobblehead]

I don't think you can lose players of Kampman's and Harris' stature and not have it hurt the team. That is impossible.

We've got enough linebackers that we can probably withstand the loss of Kampman. We did not really miss him against Dallas, which I found surprising.

Harris might be a different story. Williams played well when Harris was out with the spleen, so there is hope, but the nickel corner position just got weakened. How much remains to be seen.

I think we are going to notice Harris big time because we already lost Lee and Blackman. We are basically playing our 6th CB in the nickel and our 7th in the dime. Bush is god awful in coverage, and Underwood is completely untested. Hopefully Dom brings the hounds and doesn't give any QB time to throw the rest of the way.....unfortunately we lost our best pass rusher as well :shock:

[ThunderDan]

I don't think you can lose players of Kampman's and Harris' stature and not have it hurt the team. That is impossible.

We've got enough linebackers that we can probably withstand the loss of Kampman. We did not really miss him against Dallas, which I found surprising.

Harris might be a different story. Williams played well when Harris was out with the spleen, so there is hope, but the nickel corner position just got weakened. How much remains to be seen.

QFT. That's exactly what I've been saying lately, too. '

Both are great locker room leaders, but Kampy's value has been negated with the position change and the amount of LB's we have with different, yet special skillsets to throw out there. TWill (might) could hold his own at CB given the matchups week to week...but having to rely on an already questionable nickel-dime depth chart (Jarrett Bush, Underwood, etc.) is where the questions start and the fingernail chewing begins come Turkey Day.

It won't be Turkey Day but the Monday night game against Baltimore.

[Fritz]

I don't think you can lose players of Kampman's and Harris' stature and not have it hurt the team. That is impossible.

We've got enough linebackers that we can probably withstand the loss of Kampman. We did not really miss him against Dallas, which I found surprising.

Harris might be a different story. Williams played well when Harris was out with the spleen, so there is hope, but the nickel corner position just got weakened. How much remains to be seen.

The team will miss them both, no doubt. But as someone pointed out, when the Giants went on their run they had lost a couple players but backups stepped up. We can hope it happens here. We'll see what Jones & the corners can do.

[MJZiggy]

My other issue has to do with Mike Vandermause's column, which severely tramples cause-and-effect with this passage:

"One play after Kampman was carted to the locker room in the third quarter, the 49ers scored their first touchdown. Two plays after Harris went down in a heap early in the fourth quarter, the 49ers scored their second touchdown. On the next series, the 49ers scored another touchdown to turn what had been a 30-10 rout into a nail-biter.

It was no coincidence the wheels came off the defensive wagon once Kampman and Harris departed."


What an easy, sloppy article - no real thought, no analysis, just some vague and general claims that abuse any real notion of cause and effect.

There. I feel better now.

You can actually make logical sense out of his argument (though I haven't rewatched the plays to be sure) by saying that Smith didn't perform well during the game because he had Kampman in his face all day, and as soon as Kampman is out of the way and the pressure off he connects. And it goes without saying that as soon as Al Harris is out of the game, the Niners are going to have an easier time with the long ball. Too bad the doofus didn't even think through his own logic. And maybe double check the play to make sure that's what actually happened. I should have gone into sports writing.

[Fritz]

My other issue has to do with Mike Vandermause's column, which severely tramples cause-and-effect with this passage:

"One play after Kampman was carted to the locker room in the third quarter, the 49ers scored their first touchdown. Two plays after Harris went down in a heap early in the fourth quarter, the 49ers scored their second touchdown. On the next series, the 49ers scored another touchdown to turn what had been a 30-10 rout into a nail-biter.

It was no coincidence the wheels came off the defensive wagon once Kampman and Harris departed."


What an easy, sloppy article - no real thought, no analysis, just some vague and general claims that abuse any real notion of cause and effect.

There. I feel better now.

You can actually make logical sense out of his argument (though I haven't rewatched the plays to be sure) by saying that Smith didn't perform well during the game because he had Kampman in his face all day, and as soon as Kampman is out of the way and the pressure off he connects. And it goes without saying that as soon as Al Harris is out of the game, the Niners are going to have an easier time with the long ball. Too bad the doofus didn't even think through his own logic. And maybe double check the play to make sure that's what actually happened. I should have gone into sports writing.

You could be pals with Greg Bedard!

As for your argument you'd have to be able to show that Kampman was getting specific pressure on the specific type of play on which the touchdown was scored.

But no.

[Rastak]

Here is what I can't stand.

When the Vikings need an amazing TD throw by BF to beat SF at home they are AWESOME!

When the Packers are winning the whole game and SF never had the ball with a chance to take the lead in the second half we SUCKED!

Minnesota's schedule has looked a lot like ours. Only different MINN games BAL, PITT, and SEA. Packers have CHI, DAL and TB. They are the best team ever, we have played pansys and can't beat a good team.

What I can't stand is the fact that nobody mentions the Niners got a 10 point swing with seconds left in the half when they blocked a kick (good play) and the ball bounced right into someones arms so he could house it. Nobody mentions that was the only reason they even had the lead at the end.

[MJZiggy]

My other issue has to do with Mike Vandermause's column, which severely tramples cause-and-effect with this passage:

"One play after Kampman was carted to the locker room in the third quarter, the 49ers scored their first touchdown. Two plays after Harris went down in a heap early in the fourth quarter, the 49ers scored their second touchdown. On the next series, the 49ers scored another touchdown to turn what had been a 30-10 rout into a nail-biter.

It was no coincidence the wheels came off the defensive wagon once Kampman and Harris departed."


What an easy, sloppy article - no real thought, no analysis, just some vague and general claims that abuse any real notion of cause and effect.

There. I feel better now.

You can actually make logical sense out of his argument (though I haven't rewatched the plays to be sure) by saying that Smith didn't perform well during the game because he had Kampman in his face all day, and as soon as Kampman is out of the way and the pressure off he connects. And it goes without saying that as soon as Al Harris is out of the game, the Niners are going to have an easier time with the long ball. Too bad the doofus didn't even think through his own logic. And maybe double check the play to make sure that's what actually happened. I should have gone into sports writing.

You could be pals with Greg Bedard!

As for your argument you'd have to be able to show that Kampman was getting specific pressure on the specific type of play on which the touchdown was scored.

But no.

I don't see the Bedard thing happening. No what? (my argument was that the argument could be made if say, someone were paying you to write good sports stories and when you bothered to research the theory, it held)

[Fritz]

No Vandermause doing the work it would require to make the argument he tossed out there.

[ThunderDan]

Here is what I can't stand.

When the Vikings need an amazing TD throw by BF to beat SF at home they are AWESOME!

When the Packers are winning the whole game and SF never had the ball with a chance to take the lead in the second half we SUCKED!

Minnesota's schedule has looked a lot like ours. Only different MINN games BAL, PITT, and SEA. Packers have CHI, DAL and TB. They are the best team ever, we have played pansys and can't beat a good team.

What I can't stand is the fact that nobody mentions the Niners got a 10 point swing with seconds left in the half when they blocked a kick (good play) and the ball bounced right into someones arms so he could house it. Nobody mentions that was the only reason they even had the lead at the end.

Once again it did happen!!

If that would of happened we wouldn't have had to watch that clip over and over also.

[Bretsky]

Just two Monday morning grumblings.

First, in the thread on the loss of Al Harris, a couple of posters implied that Thompson has failed to stock the roster well enough with corners, and now the team is screwed. They point to the drafting of Pat Lee and the playing of Bush as examples in support.

First, there's no way to tell how Lee would be playing had he not been put on IR. Maybe he'd be the dime back - it's impossible to say, really. Secondly, the team has lost Lee and Blackmon, so instead of having a 6th round rook out there, it might have been one or the other. Harris is not the first corner to go down; he's the third.

It's as if people are blaming Thompson for not having pro-bowlers on the fourth string. Tramon Williams - the nickel now stepping in - is a high quality replacement for Harris. How many teams would have a nickel back as good as Williams to step in?

My other issue has to do with Mike Vandermause's column, which severely tramples cause-and-effect with this passage:

"One play after Kampman was carted to the locker room in the third quarter, the 49ers scored their first touchdown. Two plays after Harris went down in a heap early in the fourth quarter, the 49ers scored their second touchdown. On the next series, the 49ers scored another touchdown to turn what had been a 30-10 rout into a nail-biter.

It was no coincidence the wheels came off the defensive wagon once Kampman and Harris departed."

WTF? Uh, Mike - that play right after Kampman was carted off, the one you cite as an example of how "the wheels came off"? - you know, the touchdown? Uh, who was covering Crabtree on that route? Oh - Al Harris - the guy whose absence you cite as reason the Packers fell apart, along with Kampman's absence. What sloppy writing.

If Vandermause had broken the play down and showed that the Niners picked specifically on Kampman's replacement for a t.d., you could say his absence caused a touchdown. Sure. But could you say much more than that without a deep analysis of how the Niners took advantage over the course of the rest of the game? No.

What an easy, sloppy article - no real thought, no analysis, just some vague and general claims that abuse any real notion of cause and effect.

There. I feel better now.



This is a rough group in here Fritz; gotta take the good with the bad. One thing about da rats is you'll get many many different viewpoints and you can balance your own with others and decide where you are.

With that being said........BUSH SUCKS........Why is he on our team again ?

Dude can't even recover a dam fumble in the most important game since we were in the Super Bowl

Yes, I'm still bitter :!: :lol:

I'd have frickin loved to see Mike the Freak McKenzie back in Green Bay; hopefully the Bell dude I've never heard of will be 2x as good

[Scott Campbell]

Just two Monday morning grumblings.

First, in the thread on the loss of Al Harris, a couple of posters implied that Thompson has failed to stock the roster well enough with corners, and now the team is screwed. They point to the drafting of Pat Lee and the playing of Bush as examples in support.

First, there's no way to tell how Lee would be playing had he not been put on IR. Maybe he'd be the dime back - it's impossible to say, really. Secondly, the team has lost Lee and Blackmon, so instead of having a 6th round rook out there, it might have been one or the other. Harris is not the first corner to go down; he's the third.

It's as if people are blaming Thompson for not having pro-bowlers on the fourth string. Tramon Williams - the nickel now stepping in - is a high quality replacement for Harris. How many teams would have a nickel back as good as Williams to step in?

My other issue has to do with Mike Vandermause's column, which severely tramples cause-and-effect with this passage:

"One play after Kampman was carted to the locker room in the third quarter, the 49ers scored their first touchdown. Two plays after Harris went down in a heap early in the fourth quarter, the 49ers scored their second touchdown. On the next series, the 49ers scored another touchdown to turn what had been a 30-10 rout into a nail-biter.

It was no coincidence the wheels came off the defensive wagon once Kampman and Harris departed."

WTF? Uh, Mike - that play right after Kampman was carted off, the one you cite as an example of how "the wheels came off"? - you know, the touchdown? Uh, who was covering Crabtree on that route? Oh - Al Harris - the guy whose absence you cite as reason the Packers fell apart, along with Kampman's absence. What sloppy writing.

If Vandermause had broken the play down and showed that the Niners picked specifically on Kampman's replacement for a t.d., you could say his absence caused a touchdown. Sure. But could you say much more than that without a deep analysis of how the Niners took advantage over the course of the rest of the game? No.

What an easy, sloppy article - no real thought, no analysis, just some vague and general claims that abuse any real notion of cause and effect.

There. I feel better now.



This is a rough group in here Fritz; gotta take the good with the bad. One thing about da rats is you'll get many many different viewpoints and you can balance your own with others and decide where you are.

With that being said........BUSH SUCKS........Why is he on our team again ?

Dude can't even recover a dam fumble in the most important game since we were in the Super Bowl

Yes, I'm still bitter :!: :lol:

I'd have frickin loved to see Mike the Freak McKenzie back in Green Bay; hopefully the Bell dude I've never heard of will be 2x as good



McKenzie torched that bridge on the way out of town. Though unlike another high profile defection, he didn't continue running his mouth after it was all over.

[Bretsky]

I think it was Shermy who pissed MM off so TT might have liked him

[bobblehead]

I think it was Shermy who pissed MM off so TT might have liked him

I think TT is a pragmatist so he would resign BF tomorrow if he was available and it was the best move for the team. People who bitch about TT's ego are right to an extent, he has such a big ego he doesn't take any of it personally and goes about building the team the best way he knows....hopefully that way is good enough.

[Fritz]

Mike Mckenzie was slow but got by on guile when he left here, and I'm not sure any more loss of speed since then has been compensated for by increased guile.

Yes, lots of opinions, Bretsky, and that's fine, but I find it unreasonable to bitterly complain that TT doesn't have All-Pro backups just waiting in the wings at not the nickel spot, but the dime spot.

How many teams have lost two corners (Lee and Blackmon) and still have a more-than-serviceable corner playing the dime package? I'd wager that 90% of the teams out there, and maybe more, have dime backs who are roughly on a par with Bush, at least if their first dime back choices were hurt, like Green Bay's have been.

[Bretsky]

Mike Mckenzie was slow but got by on guile when he left here, and I'm not sure any more loss of speed since then has been compensated for by increased guile.

Yes, lots of opinions, Bretsky, and that's fine, but I find it unreasonable to bitterly complain that TT doesn't have All-Pro backups just waiting in the wings at not the nickel spot, but the dime spot.

How many teams have lost two corners (Lee and Blackmon) and still have a more-than-serviceable corner playing the dime package? I'd wager that 90% of the teams out there, and maybe more, have dime backs who are roughly on a par with Bush, at least if their first dime back choices were hurt, like Green Bay's have been.


Nobody said all pro backups that I recall
I'm not sure Lee ever cracked the depth chart; I could be wrong but I though he was inactive...aka..>Fergy...much in his rookie year. I'm not sure we miss him at all. We miss Blackmond on specials a lot. He never seemed much of a CB. Now Al Harris; we can't replace him with most starters....definitely not a backup.

[sharpe1027]

This is a rough group in here Fritz; gotta take the good with the bad. One thing about da rats is you'll get many many different viewpoints and you can balance your own with others and decide where you are.

With that being said........BUSH SUCKS........Why is he on our team again ?

Dude can't even recover a dam fumble in the most important game since we were in the Super Bowl

Yes, I'm still bitter :!: :lol:

I'd have frickin loved to see Mike the Freak McKenzie back in Green Bay; hopefully the Bell dude I've never heard of will be 2x as good

You know, sometimes a player's label sticks with him for his entire career. Take Ahman Green, had some fumbling troubles early and made big headlines when he got benched for it. Over his career you heard over and over and over again about how much of a fumbler he was. Everytime he fumbled, it was a big deal because he was a "fumbler." The reality is, he wasn't out of the ordinary in terms of fumbles per carry.

IMO, Bush falls into that category. At one point in his career he had shown enough to earn significant playing time as a DB. He failed and looked bad doing it. I was down on him as much as the next guy. When I saw him out there this year, I got a sick feeling in my stomach. You know what though? He looks much improved. Still because of his impression, every time he gets beat people will be screaming about how bad he is, just like when Ahman fumbled.

[CaliforniaCheez]

I thought it was a simple adjustment by the 49'ers that should have been in their game plan.

Instead of attacking the strong outside, you pass down the middle with your big receivers going against Jarrett Bush.

Remarkably effective. Once Harris was out Bush was in as the nickel.

[sharpe1027]

I thought it was a simple adjustment by the 49'ers that should have been in their game plan.

Instead of attacking the strong outside, you pass down the middle with your big receivers going against Jarrett Bush.

Remarkably effective. Once Harris was out Bush was in as the nickel.

Early on I saw Woodson lined up on Veron Davis. I am guessing that changed after Al went out, but I haven't confirmed it.

[Fritz]

Mike Mckenzie was slow but got by on guile when he left here, and I'm not sure any more loss of speed since then has been compensated for by increased guile.

Yes, lots of opinions, Bretsky, and that's fine, but I find it unreasonable to bitterly complain that TT doesn't have All-Pro backups just waiting in the wings at not the nickel spot, but the dime spot.

How many teams have lost two corners (Lee and Blackmon) and still have a more-than-serviceable corner playing the dime package? I'd wager that 90% of the teams out there, and maybe more, have dime backs who are roughly on a par with Bush, at least if their first dime back choices were hurt, like Green Bay's have been.

Nobody said all pro backups that I recall
I'm not sure Lee ever cracked the depth chart; I could be wrong but I though he was inactive...aka..>Fergy...much in his rookie year. I'm not sure we miss him at all. We miss Blackmond on specials a lot. He never seemed much of a CB. Now Al Harris; we can't replace him with most starters....definitely not a backup.

Nobody said it but the implication is that Thompson failed because Bush is the dime back. I disagree, in part because it's not Thompson's fault that Lee and Blackmon got hurt.

[denverYooper]

I thought it was a simple adjustment by the 49'ers that should have been in their game plan.

Instead of attacking the strong outside, you pass down the middle with your big receivers going against Jarrett Bush.

Remarkably effective. Once Harris was out Bush was in as the nickel.

How many of those were his fault, though? One was on Hawk, and another on Matthews for not being disruptive enough, at least. He's been on the field more than people realize, I think, and has been at least ok most of the time. Part of the issue that people have is that the only time his name is mentioned, it's not a kudos. He hasn't made any big positive plays to replace the negative plays his name is associated with, but most of the time he does his job.

Bush also brings some ability as a rusher, and IIRC almost had a sack on Romo. It'll be interesting to see if they bring him on some pressure because I think he could be one of our better rushers out of the secondary.