Tampa fires Jim Bates

[red]

from PFT


Bucs remove Jim Bates as defensive coordinator
Posted by Mike Florio on November 24, 2009 12:05 AM ET
Ten days before the 2009 season began, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers fired offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski.

Now, ten games into the first season of the Raheem Morris era, the Bucs have relieved defensive coordinator Jim Bates of his duties, according to Rick Stroud of the St. Petersburg Times.

Morris, who was promoted to defensive coordinator in the offseason before being promoted to head coach, has never actually served as a defensive coordinator. Per Stroud, Morris will run the defense -- and he'll immediately re-install the Tampa Two defense.

Bates, who has worked as a defensive coordinator with the Packers and Dolphins, will remain with the organization in a different role.

The move comes a day after the Bucs were blown out by the Saints, 38-7. And while it's still not likely that Morris will face termination after only one year on the job, his choice of coordinators has blown up in his face, and that fact needs to be taken into account when assessing his first season as a head coach.

[superfan]

Morris seems to be running his team like a rabid fan - firing his coordinators at the drop of a hat. His head coaching career may be short lived.

[channtheman]

How did he figure it was smart to fire his offensive coordinator before ever playing a real game. Did he seriously fire a coordinator based on performance in the preseason?

[Sparkey]

How did he figure it was smart to fire his offensive coordinator before ever playing a real game. Did he seriously fire a coordinator based on performance in the preseason?

Who is the GM there ? You change defensive schemes and it takes a good two year to fully adjust. Especially Bates man-up scheme. I mean good press corners don't grow on trees and along with that, you need a great D-line.

[Waldo]

We should bring him in for a look, kick the tires, see if there is still gas in the tank, though he is getting long in the tooth. :lol:

Coordinators are rarely fired midseason. Bates now has been demoted midseason at one team, resigned, and then fired midseason at his next.

Bates' scheme is a relic from a bygone era, that he didn't even invent (just felt dirty running the Dallas Cowboys dynasty defensive scheme, Jimmy Johnson's invention). The Manning rules rendered Bates' scheme obsolete. At its core it needed shutdown corners, the Manning rules made the concept of a shutdown corner a thing of the past.

[hoosier]

The Packers losing to Tampa looks worse and worse every day.... :evil:

[Scott Campbell]

The Packers losing to Tampa looks worse and worse every day.... :evil:


I dunno. It looked a lot worse to me before we beat DAL and SF.

[MichiganPackerFan]

The Packers losing to Tampa looks worse and worse every day.... :evil:


I dunno. It looked a lot worse to me before we beat DAL and SF.

No question it was bad. Freeman had a really good day that day. Similar to Sanchez. Even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days.

[TravisWilliams23]

I agree with ya Hoosier.

7-3 with a good chance of going 8-3 after Thursday would
make me feel a whole hell of a lot better than 7-4 at best.

That loss and Kampy and Harris injuries really leave no room
for errors from here on out.

I'm looking forward towards how this team and coaches
play out what was dealt them.

[Kiwon]

Bates should hang 'em up after this year....

[KYPack]

We should bring him in for a look, kick the tires, see if there is still gas in the tank, though he is getting long in the tooth. :lol:

Coordinators are rarely fired midseason. Bates now has been demoted midseason at one team, resigned, and then fired midseason at his next.

Bates' scheme is a relic from a bygone era, that he didn't even invent (just felt dirty running the Dallas Cowboys dynasty defensive scheme, Jimmy Johnson's invention). The Manning rules rendered Bates' scheme obsolete. At its core it needed shutdown corners, the Manning rules made the concept of a shutdown corner a thing of the past.

The only time that style defense got on it's back legs and howled is when the Dolphins had the brilliant Patrick Surtain and Sam Madison at the corners, Zach Thomas at Mike and Jason Taylor at RDE. It just about takes that level of talent to fuel that D.

I really dug Bates as a coach, all the fire in the world, down on the sideline, screaming at the guys. But, yeah, he's probably done.

[pbmax]

We should bring him in for a look, kick the tires, see if there is still gas in the tank, though he is getting long in the tooth. :lol:

Coordinators are rarely fired midseason. Bates now has been demoted midseason at one team, resigned, and then fired midseason at his next.

Bates' scheme is a relic from a bygone era, that he didn't even invent (just felt dirty running the Dallas Cowboys dynasty defensive scheme, Jimmy Johnson's invention). The Manning rules rendered Bates' scheme obsolete. At its core it needed shutdown corners, the Manning rules made the concept of a shutdown corner a thing of the past.

The only time that style defense got on it's back legs and howled is when the Dolphins had the brilliant Patrick Surtain and Sam Madison at the corners, Zach Thomas at Mike and Jason Taylor at RDE. It just about takes that level of talent to fuel that D.

I really dug Bates as a coach, all the fire in the world, down on the sideline, screaming at the guys. But, yeah, he's probably done.
You know your defense really stinks when Packer fans were happy to climb up all the way to slightly below average with Bates. Of course, had he stuck around he would have gotten to use Woodson.

Don't forget Daryl Gardener KY. You need monsters in the middle of that defense. I remember the ESPN coverage of the Gardener pick by the Dolphins. The heads were falling all over themselves that Johnson called him personally to check that Gardener was willing to work hard if the Dolphins drafted him. Just a complete love sonnet.

Didn't hurt that Gardener went out and played very well until back injuries slowed him up.

[Guiness]

How did he figure it was smart to fire his offensive coordinator before ever playing a real game. Did he seriously fire a coordinator based on performance in the preseason?

I've seen that happen a few times (not just in football). Generally has to do with a blow out argument, or one of the parties being a headcase rather than any sort of issues related to the performance of his job.

[Guiness]

Bates really should've swallowed his pride and stayed here. He had a reasonably successful season, was well liked, and might've done well. Instead he quit, and went on to a couple of situations where he had no goodwill to help him ride out bad times.

[KYPack]

We should bring him in for a look, kick the tires, see if there is still gas in the tank, though he is getting long in the tooth. :lol:

Coordinators are rarely fired midseason. Bates now has been demoted midseason at one team, resigned, and then fired midseason at his next.

Bates' scheme is a relic from a bygone era, that he didn't even invent (just felt dirty running the Dallas Cowboys dynasty defensive scheme, Jimmy Johnson's invention). The Manning rules rendered Bates' scheme obsolete. At its core it needed shutdown corners, the Manning rules made the concept of a shutdown corner a thing of the past.

The only time that style defense got on it's back legs and howled is when the Dolphins had the brilliant Patrick Surtain and Sam Madison at the corners, Zach Thomas at Mike and Jason Taylor at RDE. It just about takes that level of talent to fuel that D.

I really dug Bates as a coach, all the fire in the world, down on the sideline, screaming at the guys. But, yeah, he's probably done.
You know your defense really stinks when Packer fans were happy to climb up all the way to slightly below average with Bates. Of course, had he stuck around he would have gotten to use Woodson.

Don't forget Daryl Gardener KY. You need monsters in the middle of that defense. I remember the ESPN coverage of the Gardener pick by the Dolphins. The heads were falling all over themselves that Johnson called him personally to check that Gardener was willing to work hard if the Dolphins drafted him. Just a complete love sonnet.

Didn't hurt that Gardener went out and played very well until back injuries slowed him up.

I forgot about 7 or more guys, PB. I liked Bates, but the idea that Sanders would take that shell and make it the inflexible base defense still pisses me off. I like how that D positions the safeties, but you must bring one S down in certain situations. I hate the corners on the island constantly. & I really hated how they deployed the LB's. The strength of any D is changing up how you position those LB's, your most mobile tacklers. You can't blitz effectively out of that set. The backers are too deep. You move the LB's around and show blitz far more than you actually blitz. There was nopercentage in the way we set the pluggers and it showed time and time again.

How couldn't Sanders figure out that he had to put more looks in?

[Fritz]

They didn't call him V-Bob for nuthin'.

[Lurker64]

We should bring him in for a look, kick the tires, see if there is still gas in the tank, though he is getting long in the tooth. :lol:

Coordinators are rarely fired midseason. Bates now has been demoted midseason at one team, resigned, and then fired midseason at his next.

Bates' scheme is a relic from a bygone era, that he didn't even invent (just felt dirty running the Dallas Cowboys dynasty defensive scheme, Jimmy Johnson's invention). The Manning rules rendered Bates' scheme obsolete. At its core it needed shutdown corners, the Manning rules made the concept of a shutdown corner a thing of the past.

The only time that style defense got on it's back legs and howled is when the Dolphins had the brilliant Patrick Surtain and Sam Madison at the corners, Zach Thomas at Mike and Jason Taylor at RDE. It just about takes that level of talent to fuel that D.

I've been noticing this a little bit in my research of NFL defensive strategies through the ages, and it seems like there are a whole lot of defenses that are successful because they're used by teams who have exceptional talents to make it work, and are significantly less successful when implemented with less talent, and gradually go away when you lose the players who made it successful in the first place.

I mean, the Tampa 2 is on its way out because the LBs you need to make it work (guys like Brian Urlacher and Derrick Brooks); guys who hit like LBs but run like DBs are significantly harder to come by than the TEs who can attack the seam. Also, the system's priority on fast DBs who can tackle like LBs and reliance on a front four that can get pressure by itself means that we're unlikely to see a resurgence.

The 46 defense is a historical curiosity which I swear really only worked because the 1980s Bears had some of the best defensive front 7s available in football.

The Bates defense appears obsolete, in part because of the Manning rules, and in part because the economics have changed and keeping two CBs of the magnitude you need to really make it work is difficult and prohibitively expensive.

[Fritz]

I think if you have the level of talent on the front 7 that the Bears did and the Giants did back in the LT days you can run any defense you want, or no organized defense at all, and you'd be okay.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think if you have the level of talent on the front 7 that the Bears did and the Giants did back in the LT days you can run any defense you want, or no organized defense at all, and you'd be okay.

QFT

[Waldo]

The 46 defense is a historical curiosity which I swear really only worked because the 1980s Bears had some of the best defensive front 7s available in football.

Interestingly though, as a base it is dead, as a sub package it is still alive.

Rex Ryan and Jeff Fisher use a pure form of it here and there. Lebeau uses a variant, the guys are in the same place, but it is done with the nickel defense, the Will replaced by the SS. It works quite well, for the application, a better alignment when a run is a good possibility, and the TE is on the field, yet you still want the pass rushers and good cover guys out there. I think that I've seen Capers run a play of it, vs. Cleveland I believe.

[SnakeLH2006]

Bates was pretty good here, but either way, I'd rather have Caper's fresh 3-4 LB-heavy scheme any day. As long as Capers comes back (pending McFatty's status possibly) this 3-4 scheme only gets better in 2010. Even rookie Brad Jones made some nice hustle plays last week on D....Those LB's are deep/DL is not deep....not a good fit for Bates. But it would be nice to see him run the Defensive Line as a DL coach, perhaps.