Mason Crosby - let's look at details.

[Patler]

Several writers have taken verbal shots at Crosby, call him "inconsistent", stating the miss from 43 yards was "inexcusable" and even suggesting it is time to look for a replacement. None have bothered to look at his performance in any depth. Let's see if we can prompt an article really analyzing it. Heck, it would be nice if one would even ask a reputable kicking coach to look at his misses and comment on them.

Let's have our own discussion. I know we did this a few weeks ago, but I have broadened the statistical basis a bit this time. Crosby's year so far, with misses in bold and ():

Bears – (49 WL), 52, 39
Bengals - (55 WL), 45
Rams – 48, 38, 25
Vikings – 31
Lions – 46, 28, 31, 26
Browns – (55 WL), 18
Vikings – 37, 26, (51 WR)
Bucs – no attempts
Cowboys – (52 WL), 48
49ers – 23, 27, 27
Lions - (43 WR) 20, 25

My comments:
- He is 20/26 overall, just a single miss under the magic 80% they shoot for.
- He is 18/20 from less than 50 yards out.
- Only one kicker has more 50+ yard attempts than Crosby, Scobee with 6 of which he has made just 2. Succop has 5, the same as Crosby, and has made just 2, one more than Crosby. Only two have four 50+ yard attempts, five have 3 attempts. Six have 2 attempts. Only 16 kickers have two or more attempts from beyond 50 yards.
- His only misses inside 50 yards are from 49 and 43; not certainties for any kicker. Only 6 kickers are perfect in 40-49 yard attempts; Stover at 1/1; Cundiff, Dawson, Graham and Vinatieri at 2/2; and Suisham at 5/5. Nine kickers with at least 5 attempts between 40 and 49 yards are no better or are worse than Crosby at 4/6. Three kickers with less than 5 attempts have missed at least 2 of them. The miss from 43 is hardly "inexcusable".
- 5 of his 6 misses were on his first attempts in the game. Is this significant? I don't know, but its worth thinking about.
- Crosby proves time and time again that he is an asset on the kickoff team with good tackles. Sure he misses some, but he does provide a credible last line of defense on kick coverage.

A team should always look to improve, at every position. However, it will take an outstanding kicker to be better than Crosby, and Crosby is young. His only struggles are from beyond 50 yards, at distances few kickers attempt regularly and distances young kickers particularly struggle with.

[Fritz]

I was disappointed in the 43 yard miss, but for some reason the standard Crosby's held to seems higher than the standard most kickers would be held to. To call that miss "inexcusable" is an interesting choice of terms. If Rodgers misses on a pass - as he did a couple times on Thursday - is that inexcusable? Greg Jennings didn't come down with a long throw that he touched but could not catch. Is that inexcusable?

Interesting. My theory is that Crosby came in with so many people banging the drum about his strong leg that expectations got out of whack.

[get louder at lambeau]

I think the expectations are because he was a 6th round pick, and he had a great rookie season. Criticism may also have to do with him not coming through with game winners last year.

[Fosco33]

Agreed. I've mentioned this a few times as well.

What irks me is that M3 is now losing some confidence - and those long misses have lead to short fields for opponents. I'll look up the misses...

People also don't mention that the long snapper (Goode - 2nd yr) and holder (Flynn - rook) are very young as well. Takes 3 to tango.

[Fosco33]

Bears – (49 WL), 52, 39
Bengals - (55 WL), 45
Browns – (55 WL), 18
Vikings – 37, 26, (51 WR)
Cowboys – (52 WL), 48
Lions - (43 WR) 20, 25

Bears punted after missed FG. Pack won by 6 - a FG would've pushed it to 2 scores.

Crosby's kick vs. Bengals was at the half. Pack lost by 7 (so a FG wouldn't have mattered much).

After his miss vs. Browns, Cribbs fumbled and Crosby went on to kick a FG. Pack wins easily.

After the Viking miss, Favre hit AP for a 44 yard gain and Berrian for a 16 yard TD. At the time of the miss (late 4th Q), it was 26-31. A FG would've brought the game within a FG but the defense would have had to stop #4 anyway...

In the Cowboy game, Dallas exchanged punts after the miss in the 1st Q and Pack won by 10. Winning by 13 would have ensured 2 TDs needed (or a TD and 2 FGs).

And yesterday, Collins picked off Stafford after the 1st Q miss and Lee scored the TD.

[Pugger]

All but one of his misses this year were beyond the 50. Maybe MM shouldn't be asking him to attempt these longer ones. After Crosby stops missing these long ones his confidence will swell and he'll be a better kicker for it. The kicking game is played more between the ears than the right foot...

[Cheesehead Craig]

When the Pack went for it on 4th down, they passed on a 49 yd FG at the time. I think it was a good call. FGs from that distance are always iffy regardless of the kicker.

[Brandon494]

Nice post, but even so I don't have faith in Crosby to kick a 45+ game winning FG.

[bobblehead]

I'll fess up that I was pretty down on the guy. Some of that is stemming from 2 game winners missed last season.

By the numbers he is damn good, and I am not going to pull a partial and say stats don't matter, they do. Stats are metrics and are pretty undeniable.

I guess the only knock I have at this point, and it probably led to my poor opinion of him before the research was done is that he only has ONE MAKE from 50 as well. At this point whenever he jogs out for a 50+ yarder I have virtually no confidence that he MIGHT make it. That said, his numbers are very good, and replacing him with better wouldn't be easy or a priority.

[The Shadow]

I think Shawn Slocum needs to board the Shottenheimer Express.

[woodbuck27]

Kicking has alot to do with confidence. Why? Make him kick FG's of over 50 yards? Because FG's over 50 yards are difficult to make even when not under pressure. Why? Expect Crosby to make them?

[Waldo]

Overall I think that Mason is a borderline top 10 kicker. I wouldn't put him any higher. He definitely is a little above average though.

[Patler]

I guess the only knock I have at this point, and it probably led to my poor opinion of him before the research was done is that he only has ONE MAKE from 50 as well. At this point whenever he jogs out for a 50+ yarder I have virtually no confidence that he MIGHT make it. That said, his numbers are very good, and replacing him with better wouldn't be easy or a priority.

Yes, he is just 1/5 from 50 and beyond this season, but he is 7/16 over his career. Going into this year he was 6/11 at 50+, and one of those misses was when he was barely short from 69 yards away. From reasonable lengths he was 6/10 the first two seasons. This year has been a struggle, but several have been close from 50+.

I don't think MM handles it real well. I had no complaint about the 69 yard attempt last season, it was at the end of the half and was worth a shot. But when he went into a shell and played for a game-winning 52 yard attempt against the Vikings, I was shocked. I never look at a 50+ attempt as better than a 50/50 chance. A few more yards would have made a huge difference. Crosby having 16 attempts at 50+ in less than 3 seasons is a lot, probably too many. He easily has the leg strength, but controlling the flight of the ball over that distance is a real trick, and I have to believe his confidence is a bit shaky from there.

[Patler]

Overall I think that Mason is a borderline top 10 kicker. I wouldn't put him any higher. He definitely is a little above average though.

I would agree that he is not an elite kicker. "Borderline top 10..."? I don't know that I can quantify it very accurately, but I don't think there are a lot that a clearly better. Some, sure; but not a lot of them. Are there 5? 8? 10? I really don't know, but to me. that shows that the chance of getting a better all-around kicker is slim, and finding a worse one is likely. Crosby is 71/83 over his career inside 50 yards, for 85.5%. If he was used more sparingly from 50 and beyond, fans (and writers) would have a much different impression of him.

[esoxx]

Has to do better. Miss from 43 that didn't even have a chance is bush league. This is the big leagues Mason.

[channtheman]

I've been pissed at Mason a lot lately but I like this topic. Just like Patler to bring everyone back down to earth.

Didn't a kicker for the Chargers miss like a 23 yard field goal to lose the game? It was rainy and the weather conditions weren't perfect but that should be automatic right? Or is it Bush league to miss that.

I recall another one where the Colts kicker missed a game winner in the playoffs. Was in the 40 yard range and in a dome. Is that bush league?

[channtheman]

Well my memory is fuzzy but my point still stands. It was a Colts kicker I was thinking of in the first example. Missed a 29 yarder to win it.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071112/SPORTS03/711120395/-1/LOCAL17


In the 2005 NFL Playoffs, in a tightly contested game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard field goal attempt wide right with 18 seconds remaining, when the Colts were behind 21-18, costing the Colts a chance at overtime and ending the team's season. Walking off the field after the kick, he took off his helmet and threw it to the ground in anger (which cost his team a meaningless 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Vanderjagt

I guess Vanderjagt and Vinatieri probably aren't any good (LOL) because they missed what should be 100% never misses, according to some of the statements around here. Especially the second example being in a dome. I mean seriously?!

[Freak Out]

Well my memory is fuzzy but my point still stands. It was a Colts kicker I was thinking of in the first example. Missed a 29 yarder to win it.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071112/SPORTS03/711120395/-1/LOCAL17


In the 2005 NFL Playoffs, in a tightly contested game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard field goal attempt wide right with 18 seconds remaining, when the Colts were behind 21-18, costing the Colts a chance at overtime and ending the team's season. Walking off the field after the kick, he took off his helmet and threw it to the ground in anger (which cost his team a meaningless 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Vanderjagt

I guess Vanderjagt and Vinatieri probably aren't any good (LOL) because they missed what should be 100% never misses, according to some of the statements around here. Especially the second example being in a dome. I mean seriously?!

Vanderjagt is the reason the Colts went out and got Vinatieri in the first place....is the guy still kicking in the NFL? At one point in his career he had some insane kicking percentage going but lost a few games for the Colts and that was it.

[esoxx]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

[channtheman]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

My point wasn't that "some shit kicker" missed those kicks. It was that 2 good field goal kickers missed those kicks. Shit happens and we don't know how or why the miss happened. Maybe it was just a bad kick, a hold gone wrong, etc. You don't know and to come on here and spout off that it is "bush league" to miss a kick? Come on.

Also, a missed kick is a missed kick, who the fuck gives 2 shits if he misses by 2 feet to the left or 20 feet to the left? It isn't like you get 1 point for only missing by 2 feet. I bet you would be on here bitching about how he missed it even if it was really close. Who do you suggest we replace Crosby with, btw?

[esoxx]

Who said I want Crosby replaced? Settle down.

That sand in your vagina must chafe. :lol:

[channtheman]

Who said I want Crosby replaced? Settle down.

That sand in your vagina must chafe. :lol:

Oh nice, you take my last statement and insult me! I'm guessing I won then. Good night.

[Partial]

hahaha, references to sandy vages instantly improve the quality of discussion!

Chasin' Mason is fine. Coach Mac doesn't set him up for success imo.

We'll see how he handles his next opp at a 40+ game winner. That will be interesting to see.

[esoxx]

Keep guessing.

You've won nothing.

You rant and rave like a lunatic and then take umbrage at an insult?

You're funny.

[Patler]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

If missing a 43 yarder is "bush league" then why is it that only six kickers have no misses from 40-49 yards, one with only 1 attempt and 4 with only 2 attempts? One kicker is 5/5. Other than those six, everyone has missed at least one kick from that range. I guess they are all "bush league" kickers.

From 30-39 yards, kickers miss. Only 14 are perfect from that range, including Crosby. If most of the kicker miss 30-39 yard kicks, why is a 43 yard miss "bush league"?

[chain_gang]

Crosby is alright, nothing special and not terrible. Do I have the confidence that he will make game winning FG's not right now, although we haven't really been in that situation yet this year. I guess maybe I'm in the minority that feels if he has 5 attempts for 50+yds he should be converting about 60% to justify him trotting out on the field for anything longer than 50 yds. As for the argument that he one make away this season from being at 80% accuracy, well a few seasons ago Dave Rayner was two makes away from being at 80% accuracy, does that make him a good kicker? No kidding a miss or a make can drive you above or below that 80% marker pretty easily. This coming month I believe is a big one for Crosby, and with games against Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Chicago in potential sub-par weather, may very well make or break his career in Green Bay.

[LP]

All but one of his misses this year were beyond the 50. Maybe MM shouldn't be asking him to attempt these longer ones. After Crosby stops missing these long ones his confidence will swell and he'll be a better kicker for it. The kicking game is played more between the ears than the right foot...

If MM doesn't ask for the attempt, then Crosby can't stop missing them. Practice all you want, but the only time they count is in the game and you can't simulate that kind of internal pressure or defensive effort. At least Crosby doen't blame everyone but himself like some in the past.

[Fritz]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

In an attempt to keep this conversation as a rational attempt to place Crosby amongst the kickers of the league, and keep this from becoming a histrionic, mindless rage, I will "defend away."

First, per your italicized section: Crosby is not making any more money as a kicker than many kickers. He's not paid like an elite kicker - yet. Secondly, his 43 yard miss to the right was well within the vicinity.

Chann's point is that your point about a miss being somehow "bush league" is incorrect. All kickers miss kicks. Even Jason Hanson, even Vinatieri. Some miss game winners, some miss middle-of-the-game attempts. The differences that separate the very good from the average are slight.

Your question as to whether it is too much to ask for a kicker to make all his attempts from 45 yards and withing, or be considered "bush league" - yes, it is too much to ask. Can you please list the names of the kickers you have found who have, say, more than one season in the league and have made every single kick from 45 yards and under?

Patler has pointed out that Crosby's career percentage is not much lower than the sainted 80% despite having a number of long-distance attempts, unlike kickers like Robbie Gould.

[GBRulz]

I'm not sold that Crosby is our guy for the future. I admit, much of that is based on him not being able to convert from last year (two game winning attempts and failed). I realize most of his misses this year have been from 50+ yards, but some aren't even close. Then against Detroit his misses from 43 and just barely made that 20 yarder after that. This is in a dome, people!

My stance.... I think competition should be brought in for him next training camp.

[mraynrand]

Crosby is OK. Stubby needs to think carefully about kicking those long FGs versus pinning the other team back and playing D. If anything, the Packers need a decent punter who can directionally kick or has a better ability to down it inside the 15 (improving the teams guys who down the ball couldn't hurt either).

[Fritz]

I am all for the Packers drafting a punter if a good one is available. Like, fifth round good. Maybe fourth, even.

But not third, no.

[Bretsky]

I am all for the Packers drafting a punter if a good one is available. Like, fifth round good. Maybe fourth, even.

But not third, no.


A Legit NFL Punter and a Legit NFL return man would do wonders for a start
Dang D Jackson would look nice on this team :!:

[Waldo]

I'm not sold that Crosby is our guy for the future. I admit, much of that is based on him not being able to convert from last year (two game winning attempts and failed). I realize most of his misses this year have been from 50+ yards, but some aren't even close. Then against Detroit his misses from 43 and just barely made that 20 yarder after that. This is in a dome, people!

My stance.... I think competition should be brought in for him next training camp.

What position are you willing to sacrifice competition at (or healthy bodies) in order to do this competition.

Give and take. OL? DL? DBs?

You can only bring 80 to camp. If you want an extra kicker, take one away somewhere else.

[Waldo]

I am all for the Packers drafting a punter if a good one is available. Like, fifth round good. Maybe fourth, even.

But not third, no.

Take a look at drafted punters and how they are doing. The last few drafts of punters have not been pretty.

There is no point in wasting a draft pick on a punter. I agree with Ted's methods, but it is going to take time. If there is a good one available as a UFA, by all means, otherwise, bring in a few for tryouts, keep the best one or two (plus the existing punter) through minicamps, settle on the best two for TC, cut the worst after the first week. And live with it. That was a huge blunder to replace Ryan the way he did. The way we challenged Kaps this year is the right way to do it. It might take a few years, but eventually you will get a good one this way.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I am all for the Packers drafting a punter if a good one is available. Like, fifth round good. Maybe fourth, even.

But not third, no.

Take a look at drafted punters and how they are doing. The last few drafts of punters have not been pretty.

There is no point in wasting a draft pick on a punter. I agree with Ted's methods, but it is going to take time. If there is a good one available as a UFA, by all means, otherwise, bring in a few for tryouts, keep the best one or two (plus the existing punter) through minicamps, settle on the best two for TC, cut the worst after the first week. And live with it. That was a huge blunder to replace Ryan the way he did. The way we challenged Kaps this year is the right way to do it. It might take a few years, but eventually you will get a good one this way.

I'd trade a future first round pick for Shane Lechler. I'm sure Oakland would oblige. God...I can't believe I just said that about a punter, but that guy is a weapon. Anyone who can flip field position completely with one kick would be a godsend for any team with a relatively average defense. Much less a team like the Packers with a good young defense.

[Bretsky]

I am all for the Packers drafting a punter if a good one is available. Like, fifth round good. Maybe fourth, even.

But not third, no.

Take a look at drafted punters and how they are doing. The last few drafts of punters have not been pretty.

There is no point in wasting a draft pick on a punter. I agree with Ted's methods, but it is going to take time. If there is a good one available as a UFA, by all means, otherwise, bring in a few for tryouts, keep the best one or two (plus the existing punter) through minicamps, settle on the best two for TC, cut the worst after the first week. And live with it. That was a huge blunder to replace Ryan the way he did. The way we challenged Kaps this year is the right way to do it. It might take a few years, but eventually you will get a good one this way.


What about the guy from U Cincy ? Kevin Huber .....I think was his name. Strong leg/lefty. I thought he was doing pretty well and tabbed him as a great pick for TTT well before the draft.

I think if we end up employing that same strategy in all probability we'll be stuck with a sub par one for a while. I'm all for the free agency but we might have to overpay to get one in Green Bay. Of course, as I've stated over and over again...with the cap as it is it's alright to overpay in free agency. You fail when you choose the wrong guy...not overpay.

[gbgary]

i've no real problem with crosby. we've been lucky in the past 20 years to have some great kickers. he's nearly there.

[retailguy]

i've no real problem with crosby. we've been lucky in the past 20 years by have some great kickers. he's nearly there.

agree. Crosby isn't the problem. Bit of a confidence problem, that's for sure, but McCrappy hasn't helped with that, by trotting him out at anything resembling a field goal. Guy is only in his 3rd year, still very young, you put those guys in a position to be successful, 69 yarders don't build confidence, even if you get "close". McCrappy should be shot for that. preseason? fine. regular season game? NO WAY.

With a new OL, this is a completely different team. If you have transmission troubles, you don't replace the car, nor rebuild the rear end. You replace the transmission, and see if that fixes the problem.

we already "blew up the team", if we need to do that again, we need a new architect. He's already rebuilt the damn house, and needs to fix the issues, NOT start over.

Right now, we just need 3 things, guys that can block consistently, guys that can play well together, and guys that can coach them. I'm not convinced we have any of those today. We've got a couple of guys we can salvage, but that's about it.

[Smidgeon]

i've no real problem with crosby. we've been lucky in the past 20 years by have some great kickers. he's nearly there.

agree. Crosby isn't the problem. Bit of a confidence problem, that's for sure, but McCrappy hasn't helped with that, by trotting him out at anything resembling a field goal. Guy is only in his 3rd year, still very young, you put those guys in a position to be successful, 69 yarders don't build confidence, even if you get "close". McCrappy should be shot for that. preseason? fine. regular season game? NO WAY.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the 69 yarder a free kick? Though it counts for field goal points, the rules are slightly different. And yes, I think that one did build confidence. The NFL record is like 63 yards, and that kick showed Crosby he definitely has one of the all time strongest legs. I reject your conclusion that attempting the 69 yarder was something M3 should be shot for. Other game management is available, but not that.

[retailguy]

then that wasn't the kick I was thinking of. Earlier this year McCarthy sent him out on a ridiculous kick. I had forgotten that the 69 yarder was the free kick and was last season... sorry for the confusion.

One of those misses this season was really long, and really not a high percentage kick. Memory is fuzzier than I thought, but maybe it was the second of two closely back to back kicks and he missed them both?

That, I think, is what I was thinking of and calling the 69 yarder.

[retailguy]

scrap my point. I think the game I was thinking of was the Cardinals preseason game. Since I was OK, with ridiculous kicks in the preseason, I don't have a point... I just remember thinking WTF? Why send him out there in a situation where he was likely to fail?

The thought stuck with me, but the memory faded.... apologies. :wink:

[Smidgeon]

then that wasn't the kick I was thinking of. Earlier this year McCarthy sent him out on a ridiculous kick. I had forgotten that the 69 yarder was the free kick and was last season... sorry for the confusion.

One of those misses this season was really long, and really not a high percentage kick. Memory is fuzzier than I thought, but maybe it was the second of two closely back to back kicks and he missed them both?

That, I think, is what I was thinking of and calling the 69 yarder.

Gotcha.

[The Leaper]

Crosby is almost automatic inside of 45 yards...which is tough to come by. He's struggled with the long ones this year, but those certainly aren't gimmes.

He might not become an elite kicker...but he will be a very solid starter for the next 12 years. Crosby is near the bottom of the list of concerns for this football team.

[SnakeLH2006]

Snake's Take:

Crosby is a pretty good NFL kicker...and better than most.
Crosby has been inconsistent with the long field goals McFatty wants him to do (and perhaps why some are down on him with his HUGE leg).
Crosby has been poor in clutch field goals.

Despite his deece stats as a kicker, McFatty has lost confidence lately with him in FG chances. That's fair, as Crosby is deece stats wise, but not clutch at all.

Our O (with ARod) is pretty damn good on 3rd down, but the NFL's worst (saw the stat last week) in going for it on 4th down.

Knowing that, I'd still kick it...but Snake isn't fat or an NFL head coach.

[Fritz]

I am all for the Packers drafting a punter if a good one is available. Like, fifth round good. Maybe fourth, even.

But not third, no.

Take a look at drafted punters and how they are doing. The last few drafts of punters have not been pretty.

There is no point in wasting a draft pick on a punter. I agree with Ted's methods, but it is going to take time. If there is a good one available as a UFA, by all means, otherwise, bring in a few for tryouts, keep the best one or two (plus the existing punter) through minicamps, settle on the best two for TC, cut the worst after the first week. And live with it. That was a huge blunder to replace Ryan the way he did. The way we challenged Kaps this year is the right way to do it. It might take a few years, but eventually you will get a good one this way.


What about the guy from U Cincy ? Kevin Huber .....I think was his name. Strong leg/lefty. I thought he was doing pretty well and tabbed him as a great pick for TTT well before the draft.

I think if we end up employing that same strategy in all probability we'll be stuck with a sub par one for a while. I'm all for the free agency but we might have to overpay to get one in Green Bay. Of course, as I've stated over and over again...with the cap as it is it's alright to overpay in free agency. You fail when you choose the wrong guy...not overpay.

This was exactly the punter I was going to mention. Huber is a rookie and rookie punters are notoriously streaky - but so is Kapinos. I think Huber is punting better than Kaps and has more upside.

I haven't researched the punters coming out this year, but if one is out there who is worth a pick, do it. We can afford one less Jamon Meredith type - even a Desmond Bishop type - in exchange for a punter who can develop. And of course you can also bring in FA's in the meantime.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Crosby is OK. Stubby needs to think carefully about kicking those long FGs versus pinning the other team back and playing D. If anything, the Packers need a decent punter who can directionally kick or has a better ability to down it inside the 15 (improving the teams guys who down the ball couldn't hurt either).

Bingo!!!

I don't have the statistics, but bad field position has killed the Pack this year, especially in big games, and it's not just one play. It carries over to the next few series.

I really do think it's a Stubby mindset: he's not a patient coach. I knows he has weapons and he can't resist using them no matter the situation.

He really needs someone on the sidelines with him who can shout real loud into his ear: "DON'T SHOOT UNTIL YOU SEE THE WHITES OF THEIR EYES!"

[Bretsky]

I am all for the Packers drafting a punter if a good one is available. Like, fifth round good. Maybe fourth, even.

But not third, no.

Take a look at drafted punters and how they are doing. The last few drafts of punters have not been pretty.

There is no point in wasting a draft pick on a punter. I agree with Ted's methods, but it is going to take time. If there is a good one available as a UFA, by all means, otherwise, bring in a few for tryouts, keep the best one or two (plus the existing punter) through minicamps, settle on the best two for TC, cut the worst after the first week. And live with it. That was a huge blunder to replace Ryan the way he did. The way we challenged Kaps this year is the right way to do it. It might take a few years, but eventually you will get a good one this way.


What about the guy from U Cincy ? Kevin Huber .....I think was his name. Strong leg/lefty. I thought he was doing pretty well and tabbed him as a great pick for TTT well before the draft.

I think if we end up employing that same strategy in all probability we'll be stuck with a sub par one for a while. I'm all for the free agency but we might have to overpay to get one in Green Bay. Of course, as I've stated over and over again...with the cap as it is it's alright to overpay in free agency. You fail when you choose the wrong guy...not overpay.

This was exactly the punter I was going to mention. Huber is a rookie and rookie punters are notoriously streaky - but so is Kapinos. I think Huber is punting better than Kaps and has more upside.

I haven't researched the punters coming out this year, but if one is out there who is worth a pick, do it. We can afford one less Jamon Meredith type - even a Desmond Bishop type - in exchange for a punter who can develop. And of course you can also bring in FA's in the meantime.


Huber has a much stronger leg that Kapinos..who IMO...have very limited upsaide. I think Cincy snapped him up in the fifth a few picks before us if my memory serves me right.

I'd take him for a draft pick; I'd take a 7th round draft pick if anybody wanted Kapinos because IMO there's just as good available. Maybe not much better...but just as good

[Smidgeon]

Despite his deece stats as a kicker, McFatty has lost confidence lately with him in FG chances. That's fair, as Crosby is deece stats wise, but not clutch at all.

He's not clutch yet. Kickers don't come in and just be clutch. It took Longwell several seasons before he really started being consistent in the clutch. Crosby's just a young kicker. I'll take practically automatic 45 yards or less and deal with the rest.

[channtheman]

Despite his deece stats as a kicker, McFatty has lost confidence lately with him in FG chances. That's fair, as Crosby is deece stats wise, but not clutch at all.

He's not clutch yet. Kickers don't come in and just be clutch. It took Longwell several seasons before he really started being consistent in the clutch. Crosby's just a young kicker. I'll take practically automatic 45 yards or less and deal with the rest.

And you know Crosby has shown that he can be clutch too. His rookie year and his first game he came through big time with some huge kicks in crappy weather against the Eagles to win a game.

[Smidgeon]

Despite his deece stats as a kicker, McFatty has lost confidence lately with him in FG chances. That's fair, as Crosby is deece stats wise, but not clutch at all.

He's not clutch yet. Kickers don't come in and just be clutch. It took Longwell several seasons before he really started being consistent in the clutch. Crosby's just a young kicker. I'll take practically automatic 45 yards or less and deal with the rest.

And you know Crosby has shown that he can be clutch too. His rookie year and his first game he came through big time with some huge kicks in crappy weather against the Eagles to win a game.

+1

He just hasn't been consistent in the clutch. Yeah, he has the potential and has flashed. He's a young player. I'd be more worried if he hadn't flashed at all...

[channtheman]

Despite his deece stats as a kicker, McFatty has lost confidence lately with him in FG chances. That's fair, as Crosby is deece stats wise, but not clutch at all.

He's not clutch yet. Kickers don't come in and just be clutch. It took Longwell several seasons before he really started being consistent in the clutch. Crosby's just a young kicker. I'll take practically automatic 45 yards or less and deal with the rest.

And you know Crosby has shown that he can be clutch too. His rookie year and his first game he came through big time with some huge kicks in crappy weather against the Eagles to win a game.

+1

He just hasn't been consistent in the clutch. Yeah, he has the potential and has flashed. He's a young player. I'd be more worried if he hadn't flashed at all...

Exactly. I just think right now his confidence might be low. I've got nothing to back that up, but lets let him and his career play out a little bit longer.

It seems like us Packer fans have experience greatness at a lot of positions that when we hand the reins over we are far too critical far too soon. Let's let these young guys play a little bit and see what happens.

[3irty1]

How can anyone gather that MM is losing confidence in Crosby? He attempts a 45+ seemingly every game, that doesn't seem like losing confidence to me.

[channtheman]

How can anyone gather that MM is losing confidence in Crosby? He attempts a 45+ seemingly every game, that doesn't seem like losing confidence to me.

I would say going for it instead of kicking a 49 yard field goal is losing confidence.

[The Leaper]

I would say going for it instead of kicking a 49 yard field goal is losing confidence.

Especially when 3 points there puts you up 2 scores...same as a TD.

[Fosco33]

(Mason missed another kick, a shorter one this time. Are you concerned about his accuracy?)
I have confidence in Mason Crosby. Obviously you want him to make every kick. We've been very aggressive with our approach as far as taking chances outside the 50-yard line and so forth. To answer your question, I'm not concerned about that. I thought as a whole in the game against Detroit, our special teams needs to play with a little more confidence. We had the opening kickoff that we fumbled, and I felt from that point on we were playing a little cautious. We just need to clean up some fundamentals and play with the confidence we were playing with against Dallas and San Francisco. I kind of saw that as a common thread through our special teams in the Detroit game, and we'll definitely get that done this week in practice.

(Did his earlier miss affect your decision to go for it on fourth-and-3?)
No, it did not. You plan both sides of that play call, whether you go for it. Fourth-and-4 or less is something I felt very confident going into the game, as far as from a game plan standpoint. Got the defense we anticipated in that particular situation. I just felt that we were moving the ball very productively, especially I think it was the first seven series of the game, we were moving the ball up and down. I just didn't feel we were producing enough points, and I wanted to keep it going. That had nothing to do with Mason's kick earlier in the game.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Apparently quite a bit of "bush league" kickers in the league.

Matt Stover: Bush league
Stephen Gostowski: bush league
John Carney: Bush league
Jason Elam: Bush league

[channtheman]

Apparently quite a bit of "bush league" kickers in the league.

Matt Stover: Bush league
Stephen Gostowski: bush league
John Carney: Bush league
Jason Elam: Bush league

I think sometimes people make stupid statements, and can't just say "LOL, I'm a dumbass" or "yeah that was kinda stupid" when they are proven wrong.