Thoughts

[ND72]

I have to admit, some of these guys are starting to even impress me.

DB's - Woodson can speak for himself. I like Tramon as a starting CB, and if teams are going to try to pick on him, I'm ok with that. Collins is starting to show signs of his pro bowl level more and more each week in this defense. We just don't have much depth...which was evident since every time Jarret Bush was on the field, Baltimore was throwing at him. I'd rather see Underwood.

LB's - What can't you say about these guys? I love Aaron Kampman, but when Brad Jones plays, we're a different team. We run a more true 3-4 defense. Jones has simply impressed me, I don't know what else to say, kid can play. Matthews is going to be a star, and is showing he was worth everythign we gave up for him. Our ILB's are really starting to come on now. Barnett seems to be all over the field, and Hawk is playing like that big tough ILB you need in a 3-4. I've taken plenty of beatings for my feelings about Hawk, but he is really looking good.

DL - So B.J. Raji is going to be a beast. He has definitely been showing his maturation process this year the more healthy he has become. He is just hard to run at, Detroit and Baltimore have found that out. Jenkins and Jolly are perfect for this defense, and Pickett has even showed he is tough in this defense, even though many people thought he wouldn't fit well, and wouldn't want to fit either.

QB - Rodgers = Future MVP

RB - Grant is running hard, and that's what I like to see come playoff time. Plus, I think we have a great compliment with Jackson as a reciever, and Green filling in both sides.

WR's - When our WR's catch the ball, they are dangerous, so much so I don't think teams would want to face us in the playoffs. We need to stick with what has worked though. McCarthy seems to get impatient and wants to go long too often, which I'm cool with taking shots, but short quick routes turn into big plays for us, and we need to stick with that idea.

TE's - Donald Lee can't catch a ball, and Finley is a budding star. Need I say more?

OL - Starting to turn that corner for sure. Sitton has been tough, Wells has played well, Colledge has even been playing pretty decent...again, and Clifton and Tauscher just do what they've done for years, nothing real special, but nothing that hurts a team. I do think Lang gives us a more solid front than Tauscher does, but we're looking good, so keep it going.

ST - Slocum should be fired. Crosby is pissing me off. Kapinos is looking like a good punter all of the sudden.

[red]

i like it ND, almost all of it i agree with

except, i think green runs a lot harder then grant. grant should take notes to see how a former dominate running back runs.

and i think i would like lang in the game instead of clifton, not taucsher

[pbmax]

I thought Bush had some good plays on the ball. Was he playing nickel or dime? Seemed like he was the nickel back. He still seems better than in years past.

Pickett has been as good as anyone could have been expected.

Worried about drops, ST coverage and penalties at this point. With four turnovers, the O should have had more points. Time to find a designer steroid firm to create a new, legal stickum.

[ND72]

Worried about drops, ST coverage and penalties at this point. With four turnovers, the O should have had more points. Time to find a designer steroid firm to create a new, legal stickum.


Agreed!

[Patler]

ST - Slocum should be fired. Crosby is pissing me off. Kapinos is looking like a good punter all of the sudden.

Slocum has done nothing to improve what has ailed STs all year. Hard to justify keeping your job when performance is bad to start out, and no different 13 weeks later. I have long been a critic of MM's hiring and promoting decisions. This is more evidence.

Just curious, did you watch the various replays of the missed FG? Flynn mishandled the ball, and at one point had it lying flat on the ground. He did a good job getting it up to save the attempt, but it looked like Crosby had to hesitate a little as he started to swing through the kick, and ended up just sort of punching at it rather than kicking through the ball. Maybe Crosby should have been able to adapt, but as he started his kicking motion he saw a ball lying flat on the ground, and timing is everything on placekicks.

I'm not suggesting Crosby gets no blame if things aren't perfect, he does. Receivers are expected to catch some less than perfect throws, and kickers should be expected to come through when things aren't quite right either. But when a failure occurs, you need to look at where the problem really was. This one was a mishandled placement by the holder more than a missed kick by the kicker.

[ND72]

Yeah, I saw the replay. Agreed it wasn't really his fault, but Flynn did get it set by the time the foot hit the ball, not that it makes it a perfect set though.

[red]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there. from that distance you should be able to just stand there and put the ball through

i mean, thats all he does, he kicks the ball, he should be kicking for at least 3 hours every single day

any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable IMO

[Patler]

Drops have been a problem on and off all year, and they seem to come in bunches. There have been several games when everyone seems to have at least one.

The amazing thing is having a game when Rodgers is not at his best throwing the ball, throws a couple interceptions and is less than average (his average) on accuracy; the receivers have 5 or 6 drops, there is a fumble in the passing game and a sack, yet they score three TDs, still manage to move the ball, win the game and Rodgers has a mid 80s QB rating.

I like that for the inevitable bad game that will happen from time to time! :lol:

[RashanGary]

ST - Slocum should be fired. Crosby is pissing me off. Kapinos is looking like a good punter all of the sudden.

Slocum has done nothing to improve what has ailed STs all year. Hard to justify keeping your job when performance is bad to start out, and no different 13 weeks later. I have long been a critic of MM's hiring and promoting decisions. This is more evidence.


Good points. I really hope he has learned and gets it fixed this offseason. We're winning now. He's buying time, but it's getting to the point where nobody in this Packers organization is going to get many more chances. Win or be gone.


And Capers started out getting burned in the run (Benson). He fixed that, and just got beat badly in the run (S. Jackson). The next week the run was fixed. The next week we had secondary errors. The following weeks we went simpler and slowly started to add in the different packages until now when it seems we are peaking. This defense didn't start great, but it's finishing that way. It's starting to gel.

This ST's reminds me of Bob Sanders, it's teh same problems every week, week after week with no sign of improvement (bigby chasing a TE across the field, pass int pentalties, getting run on over and over, etc). Just disappointing. It's really making this a tough season for me to watch because I think this team could really be good. I have almost no confidence that it will get fixed.

[Patler]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there. from that distance you should be able to just stand there and put the ball through

i mean, thats all he does, he kicks the ball, he should be kicking for at least 3 hours every single day

any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable IMO

So Flynn gets of blameless, and regardless of what he does, Crosby should make the kick? Any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable?

I think those are completely unreasonable expectations.

[pbmax]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there. from that distance you should be able to just stand there and put the ball through

i mean, thats all he does, he kicks the ball, he should be kicking for at least 3 hours every single day

any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable IMO
They need to practice it and decide on an approach. Either he ignores the holding trouble and proceeds, trusting Flynn to get it upright or he has to practice a short step and kick.

[red]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there. from that distance you should be able to just stand there and put the ball through

i mean, thats all he does, he kicks the ball, he should be kicking for at least 3 hours every single day

any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable IMO

So Flynn gets of blameless, and regardless of what he does, Crosby should make the kick? Any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable?

I think those are completely unreasonable expectations.

not for a guy whose only job in life, and only thing he ever has to do, is kick a football

and i just watched the replay of the kick again. crosby hardly even moved when the snap was being bobbled. he was able to take a full approach and make a normal kick

yes flynn should be blammed for the bobble, but after that he did a great job of getting the ball down and in position for crosby to make the kick

lets say at youg job all you did was sit in a chair in front of a computer, and all you have to do is hit the enter button every minute. now lets say you somehow only manage to do that right 80% of the time

you'd be fired right?

[Patler]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

[pbmax]

ST - Slocum should be fired. Crosby is pissing me off. Kapinos is looking like a good punter all of the sudden.

Slocum has done nothing to improve what has ailed STs all year. Hard to justify keeping your job when performance is bad to start out, and no different 13 weeks later. I have long been a critic of MM's hiring and promoting decisions. This is more evidence.


Good points. I really hope he has learned and gets it fixed this offseason. We're winning now. He's buying time, but it's getting to the point where nobody in this Packers organization is going to get many more chances. Win or be gone.


And Capers started out getting burned in the run (Benson). He fixed that, and just got beat badly in the run (S. Jackson). The next week the run was fixed. The next week we had secondary errors. The following weeks we went simpler and slowly started to add in the different packages until now when it seems we are peaking. This defense didn't start great, but it's finishing that way. It's starting to gel.

This ST's reminds me of Bob Sanders, it's teh same problems every week, week after week with no sign of improvement (bigby chasing a TE across the field, pass int pentalties, getting run on over and over, etc). Just disappointing. It's really making this a tough season for me to watch because I think this team could really be good. I have almost no confidence that it will get fixed.
Jackson and Benson were two different problems. Benson and the Bengals won the LOS at times and just pounded it out. Benson also broke tackles and kept going forward for good gains. I stopped counting how many times he ran into a pile, bounced backward and then went left or right for four yards.

Jackson was much more bottled up play to play. But he broke a couple long runs on blitzes where the Packers lost gap control. Jackson wasn't close to dominating the game.

[Patler]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there. from that distance you should be able to just stand there and put the ball through

i mean, thats all he does, he kicks the ball, he should be kicking for at least 3 hours every single day

any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable IMO

So Flynn gets of blameless, and regardless of what he does, Crosby should make the kick? Any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable?

I think those are completely unreasonable expectations.

not for a guy whose only job in life, and only thing he ever has to do, is kick a football

and i just watched the replay of the kick again. crosby hardly even moved when the snap was being bobbled. he was able to take a full approach and make a normal kick

yes flynn should be blammed for the bobble, but after that he did a great job of getting the ball down and in position for crosby to make the kick

lets say at youg job all you did was sit in a chair in front of a computer, and all you have to do is hit the enter button every minute. now lets say you somehow only manage to do that right 80% of the time

you'd be fired right?

I'm not sure why you think kicking a ball accurately from 40 yards away is such an easy thing to do. Most anyone can hit an enter key all day long, very few can kick 40 yard FGs all day long.

And what does Flynn have to do in practice other than catch and place balls for the kicks? Not much because he doesn't get many snaps with the offense. At least Crosby also has to practice kickoffs! :lol: :lol:

[red]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

theres a big difference between you and i teeing up the ball, and a pro doing it

plus, i know that if the ball is in the wrong place i can do things with my hands or swing to help correct the problem

theres millions of people around the world that can kick balls while they, and the ball are moving, and still put the ball almost right where they want it.

IMO nfl kickers are way to pampered

[Patler]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

theres a big difference between you and i teeing up the ball, and a pro doing it

plus, i know that if the ball is in the wrong place i can do things with my hands or swing to help correct the problem

theres millions of people around the world that can kick balls while they, and the ball are moving, and still put the ball almost right where they want it.

IMO nfl kickers are way to pampered

As I said, the kicker can adjust somewhat with his steps as he approaches, but once his plant leg is down there is not much adjustability left.

You stated that any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable. Then to your way of thinking there are really no acceptable kickers in the NFL.

Kicks of 40-49 yards
Crosby is 4 of 6
18 kickers have attempted 6 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 5 attempts, and only one has made all 5.
League wide the kickers are 138/195 at attempts of 40-49 yards.

Kicks of 30-39 yards
Crosby is 6 of 7
14 kickers have attempted 7 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 6 attempts, and only two have made all 6.
League wide the kickers are 177/213 at attempts of 30-39 yards.

I assume the millions of people you referred to are soccer players, a game I coached for years. Soccer players are not very accurate with kicks of 30 to 50 yards. They are not real accurate at 20 yards, even at upper skill levels, which is one reason why games are so low scoring. If they were accurate, with as large as the goal is for the goalie to defend, they would score on every shot.

Besides a kicked sphere flies much straighter and much more true than a kicked prolate spheroid, which tends to tumble.

[Fritz]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

theres a big difference between you and i teeing up the ball, and a pro doing it

plus, i know that if the ball is in the wrong place i can do things with my hands or swing to help correct the problem

theres millions of people around the world that can kick balls while they, and the ball are moving, and still put the ball almost right where they want it.

IMO nfl kickers are way to pampered

As I said, the kicker can adjust somewhat with his steps as he approaches, but once his plant leg is down there is not much adjustability left.

You stated that any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable. Then to your way of thinking there are really no acceptable kickers in the NFL.

Kicks of 40-49 yards
Crosby is 4 of 6
18 kickers have attempted 6 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 5 attempts, and only one has made all 5.
League wide the kickers are 138/195 at attempts of 40-49 yards.

Kicks of 30-39 yards
Crosby is 6 of 7
14 kickers have attempted 7 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 6 attempts, and only two have made all 6.
League wide the kickers are 177/213 at attempts of 30-39 yards.

I assume the millions of people you referred to are soccer players, a game I coached for years. Soccer players are not very accurate with kicks of 30 to 50 yards. They are not real accurate at 20 yards, even at upper skill levels, which is one reason why games are so low scoring. If they were accurate, with as large as the goal is for the goalie to defend, they would score on every shot.

Besides a kicked sphere flies much straighter and much more true than a kicked prolate spheroid, which tends to tumble.

Apparently there is one NFL kicker out there who would be acceptable to Red. One.

[pbmax]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

theres a big difference between you and i teeing up the ball, and a pro doing it

plus, i know that if the ball is in the wrong place i can do things with my hands or swing to help correct the problem

theres millions of people around the world that can kick balls while they, and the ball are moving, and still put the ball almost right where they want it.

IMO nfl kickers are way to pampered

As I said, the kicker can adjust somewhat with his steps as he approaches, but once his plant leg is down there is not much adjustability left.

You stated that any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable. Then to your way of thinking there are really no acceptable kickers in the NFL.

Kicks of 40-49 yards
Crosby is 4 of 6
18 kickers have attempted 6 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 5 attempts, and only one has made all 5.
League wide the kickers are 138/195 at attempts of 40-49 yards.

Kicks of 30-39 yards
Crosby is 6 of 7
14 kickers have attempted 7 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 6 attempts, and only two have made all 6.
League wide the kickers are 177/213 at attempts of 30-39 yards.

I assume the millions of people you referred to are soccer players, a game I coached for years. Soccer players are not very accurate with kicks of 30 to 50 yards. They are not real accurate at 20 yards, even at upper skill levels, which is one reason why games are so low scoring. If they were accurate, with as large as the goal is for the goalie to defend, they would score on every shot.

Besides a kicked sphere flies much straighter and much more true than a kicked prolate spheroid, which tends to tumble.

Apparently there is one NFL kicker out there who would be acceptable to Red. One.
And his name? Martin "I Jumped Up And Shredded My Knee" Gramatica.

[red]

my rant is more dirrected at all kickers in general, not just crosby

IMo a pro kicker should be damn near perfect with all the practice time they put in

most of my rage comes from the assclown for the redskins sunday

[Patler]

Apparently there is one NFL kicker out there who would be acceptable to Red. One.

Nah, not even one. The kickers who are perfect from 30-39, even those with one or two attempts, are not perfect from 40-49. The ones perfect from 40-49, even with just two attempts, are not perfect from shorter distances.

There have only been six misses from 20-29 yards, After that it gets more dicey; 83% accuracy at 30-39 yards; 70% at 40-59 yards and 55% at 50+ yards (42/77).

Crosby isn't tearing it up by any means; but we could do a lot worse. Nick Folk in Dallas is 4/10 from 40-49 yards and 1/2 from 50 out. Gastkowski is 2/5 from 40-49.

[red]

and don't even get me started on punters

[Patler]

my rant is more dirrected at all kickers in general, not just crosby

IMo a pro kicker should be damn near perfect with all the practice time they put in

most of my rage comes from the assclown for the redskins sunday

Understandable. I come from a time when a field goal kicker who was 65% successful overall was really good, and that was with rare attempts at 50+. I think a lot of fans are spoiled by how good many of the kickers really are.

[bobblehead]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there. from that distance you should be able to just stand there and put the ball through

i mean, thats all he does, he kicks the ball, he should be kicking for at least 3 hours every single day

any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable IMO

So Flynn gets of blameless, and regardless of what he does, Crosby should make the kick? Any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable?

I think those are completely unreasonable expectations.

Extremely unreasonable.

[Patler]

and don't even get me started on punters

I might support you on that one! :lol: :lol:

Someone posted a link to an article a short time back about why directional punting has fallen out of favor. Basically it said that the players have gotten so much faster in recent years rushing the punter that the time for a punter to get a kick off is so short as to make directional punting almost impossible. Two steps are the norm, and the first is started even before the snap is caught. It said a punter just can't set himself for accuracy under those conditions.

I have to admit, it is hard for us to really understand the conditions some of these positions face. It is easy to be critical.

[bobblehead]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

theres a big difference between you and i teeing up the ball, and a pro doing it

plus, i know that if the ball is in the wrong place i can do things with my hands or swing to help correct the problem

theres millions of people around the world that can kick balls while they, and the ball are moving, and still put the ball almost right where they want it.

IMO nfl kickers are way to pampered

As I said, the kicker can adjust somewhat with his steps as he approaches, but once his plant leg is down there is not much adjustability left.

You stated that any miss under 50 yards is unacceptable. Then to your way of thinking there are really no acceptable kickers in the NFL.

Kicks of 40-49 yards
Crosby is 4 of 6
18 kickers have attempted 6 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 5 attempts, and only one has made all 5.
League wide the kickers are 138/195 at attempts of 40-49 yards.

Kicks of 30-39 yards
Crosby is 6 of 7
14 kickers have attempted 7 or more, none have made all of them.
7 kickers have 6 attempts, and only two have made all 6.
League wide the kickers are 177/213 at attempts of 30-39 yards.

I assume the millions of people you referred to are soccer players, a game I coached for years. Soccer players are not very accurate with kicks of 30 to 50 yards. They are not real accurate at 20 yards, even at upper skill levels, which is one reason why games are so low scoring. If they were accurate, with as large as the goal is for the goalie to defend, they would score on every shot.

Besides a kicked sphere flies much straighter and much more true than a kicked prolate spheroid, which tends to tumble.

Apparently there is one NFL kicker out there who would be acceptable to Red. One.

Unless that kicker likes to talk politics :oops:

[LEWCWA]

I don't know others opinions on this, but although Ahman is too old to carry the load anymore, I think we saw that Ahman is a much better (stronger runner) than Grant. I think last night was proof positive we need to upgrade that position. I alson think Green should be getting 10-12 touches a game the rest of the way.

Driver and Jennings really pissed me off last night. They both seemed to be playing with hands of steel. C'mon man! Catch the damn ball! Had Greenbay lost that game, I would put blame squarley on their shoulders. If they play well that game is a complete blowout!

[ThunderDan]

my rant is more dirrected at all kickers in general, not just crosby

IMo a pro kicker should be damn near perfect with all the practice time they put in

most of my rage comes from the assclown for the redskins sunday

Understandable. I come from a time when a field goal kicker who was 65% successful overall was really good, and that was with rare attempts at 50+. I think a lot of fans are spoiled by how good many of the kickers really are.

Wasn't Ibwakeque the TB kicker who was jailed for doing coke back when?

[Fosco33]

and don't even get me started on punters

I might support you on that one! :lol: :lol:

Someone posted a link to an article a short time back about why directional punting has fallen out of favor. Basically it said that the players have gotten so much faster in recent years rushing the punter that the time for a punter to get a kick off is so short as to make directional punting almost impossible. Two steps are the norm, and the first is started even before the snap is caught. It said a punter just can't set himself for accuracy under those conditions.

I have to admit, it is hard for us to really understand the conditions some of these positions face. It is easy to be critical.

Some dumb questions:

- why do teams snap in a certain distance on kicks (outside the endzone of course?
- is that the max most long snappers do - or just whats always been done?
- if not, why wouldn't we get a long snapper who can snap it another 3-5 yards to allow time for true directional punting?

[red]

great questions fosco

for punts and FG's

i suppose the extra distance adds for a little, but i would think its offset by there being no chance of a block

if you're taking a 25 yard fg, why not move back 2 or 3 more yards and give the d no chance at a block?

do those extra couple of yards make that much difference for accuracy?

[sharpe1027]

Just how much difference would a few yards really make? The fastest speed ever reached by a person is about 39.16 feet per second. Even reducing that for less than ideal conditions and accounting for pads, ect... a few yards doesn't seem give you much more than maybe a few tenths of a second.

[red]

Just how much difference would a few yards really make? The fastest speed ever reached by a person is about 39.16 feet per second. Even reducing that for less than ideal conditions and accounting for pads, ect... a few yards doesn't seem give you much more than maybe a few tenths of a second.

i was thinking more about blocks on field goals

like on the line when a guy just jumps straight up and hits it jolly style

[sharpe1027]

Just how much difference would a few yards really make? The fastest speed ever reached by a person is about 39.16 feet per second. Even reducing that for less than ideal conditions and accounting for pads, ect... a few yards doesn't seem give you much more than maybe a few tenths of a second.

i was thinking more about blocks on field goals

like on the line when a guy just jumps straight up and hits it jolly style

I hadn't thought of that angle.

I think that happens most often when they are kicking a long kick and ball comes out low, so they probably don't want to back up if they are already pushing it. Still, why not backup for short field goals? Maybe the few yards still results in more misses than blocks avoided?

[gbgary]

a little more consistancy by both the o and the d is what i'd like to see. i don't want to see any more passive d played this year. our best results were when we were aggressive. playing it soft and conservative (both viking games) got us abused. we've looked a lot better of late and that's due to the o-line's improved play. that makes everything click. not concerned about a few drops, or a missed field goal here and there. those things will get fixed. mm still wants to go deep a little too often it seems...or is it at the wrong time. no complaints with grant at all. i think his best runs are when we just go north and south rather than trying to turn a corner. other than holding the ball too long at times, and maybe throwing too hard in the cold, what else can you say about rodgers other than he's been great. rodgers, jennings, matthews, finley, raji, and a few other youngsters really make the future look bright. if things keep improving, this next generation of Packers are going to be very exciting.

[sharpe1027]

a little more consistancy by both the o and the d is what i'd like to see. i don't want to see any more passive d played this year. our best results were when we were aggressive. playing it soft and conservative (both viking games) got us abused. we've looked a lot better of late and that's due to the o-line's improved play. that makes everything click. not concerned about a few drops, or a missed field goal here and there. those things will get fixed. mm still wants to go deep a little too often it seems...or is it at the wrong time. no complaints with grant at all. i think his best runs are when we just go north and south rather than trying to turn a corner. other than holding the ball too long at times, and maybe throwing too hard in the cold, what else can you say about rodgers other than he's been great. rodgers, jennings, matthews, finley, raji, and a few other youngsters really make the future look bright. if things keep improving, this next generation of Packers are going to be very exciting.

I think having Bigby come back really allowed them to open up the rest of the defense. I would expect them to continue to be very aggressive.

I can't quite figure out if the choice in the shots down the field are more on MM or Rodgers. MM usually doesn't seem upset about them though.

Finley is a beast. DBs can't match up with his size and LBers can't run with him. The kid gets himself wide open, consistently, even when he isn't getting the ball. He is going to start opening up things for all the rest of the players as defenses start aggressively accounting for him.

The drops are troubling to me because they've happened all year and it still hasn't been fixed.

[Patler]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

Well, I guess we did find out. The hold was not in the right spot, per Slocum:

"You’d like for him to make the kick,” Slocum said. “What happens on a mishandle, the kicker’s going into the ball, and he’s trusting that ball’s going to be right there on that spot. When there’s a double-clutch, he’s got to really stay on it and trust the holder’s going to get it there. In fact, what happened, the spot was several inches in front of what the intended spot was supposed to be, and Mason’s plant foot went according to where we intended to spot it, and so that produced the miss.”

[pbmax]

i think crosby should be able to adapt to that. it was there for him, a split second late, but it was there.

Was it really "there"? Neither you nor I know the answer to that. The kicker puts his plant foot down expecting the ball to be in a certain place. If it is too far back, too far forward, left or right of the "spot", the kicker has very little room to adjust once his plant foot is down.

If you golf, trying teeing the ball up just a few inches "off" from where you normally do, take your normal swing, and see what happens to your drive. What happens when a batter is lined up on a pitch, but misjudges the speed and makes contact out in front of the plate, or is late on the swing and makes contact to early in the swing.

Same goes for a kicker. He can adjust somewhat as he approaches, but once his plant foot is down there is not much more he can do if the ball is not where he expected.

I don't know if that happened here or not, but when Flynn smothered the ball flat on the ground, all he did after that was tip it upright where it was.

We will probably never know, because unlike Longwell did his last few seasons here, Crosby is not likely to blame the snapper or holder when a kick goes wrong.

Well, I guess we did find out. The hold was not in the right spot, per Slocum:

"You’d like for him to make the kick,” Slocum said. “What happens on a mishandle, the kicker’s going into the ball, and he’s trusting that ball’s going to be right there on that spot. When there’s a double-clutch, he’s got to really stay on it and trust the holder’s going to get it there. In fact, what happened, the spot was several inches in front of what the intended spot was supposed to be, and Mason’s plant foot went according to where we intended to spot it, and so that produced the miss.”
Also answers the question about their approach to a mis-handled snap. Kicker keeps going and has to trust the holder to get the ball down. I wonder if the kicker is taught to watch for the catch by the holder before starting forward. I'll have to remember to watch that this weekend.

[KYPack]

Some kickers pause if they see the snap or hold is funky. The master at this is Vinatieri. He can hold up for a beat and re-start his approach on the fly. Some guys don't have this ability and have a finer tolerance in their approach step.

You know who was a great holder?

Ryan. For a Canuck, he had great hands and timing.

[mraynrand]

Some kickers pause if they see the snap or hold is funky. The master at this is Vinatieri. He can hold up for a beat and re-start his approach on the fly. Some guys don't have this ability and have a finer tolerance in their approach step.

You know who was a great holder?

Ryan. For a Canuck, he had great hands and timing.

I was watching part of the last Seattle game, and Ryan still has that slow delivery and he still steps too far forward into the ball as he punts. While he has better hangtime and distance, there are some real flaws in his technique. Interesting about his holding for placekicks - Doug Pederson was a pretty good holder too.

[red]

Ryan. For a Canuck, he had great hands and timing.

plus, if it was completely botched, he could get up and outrun almost everyone on the field

[KYPack]

Some kickers pause if they see the snap or hold is funky. The master at this is Vinatieri. He can hold up for a beat and re-start his approach on the fly. Some guys don't have this ability and have a finer tolerance in their approach step.

You know who was a great holder?

Ryan. For a Canuck, he had great hands and timing.

I was watching part of the last Seattle game, and Ryan still has that slow delivery and he still steps too far forward into the ball as he punts. While he has better hangtime and distance, there are some real flaws in his technique. Interesting about his holding for placekicks - Doug Pederson was a pretty good holder too.

I was thinking about this the other day. I haven't see Seattle play hardly at all this season. Glad to hear they are still in the league.

I think part of Ryan's trouble is that he gets too fired up. A punter has to have the same mentality of a pro golfer. Controlled, relaxed and focused on his technique while staying loose. When Ryan hits a couple punts, he gets too excited. Then he trys to boom one. The thing that drove Stock nuts was Ryan reverting to his CFL technique. He'd take a 3 step approach when really trying to hammer one. 3 steps = a blocked punt. the ST coach's ultimate nightmare.

[pbmax]

Ryan. For a Canuck, he had great hands and timing.

plus, if it was completely botched, he could get up and outrun almost everyone on the field
They should have kept him for the fake, non-fake punt runs alone.

[Fritz]

You'd have to be a real outside-the-box kinda thinker, like that Texas A & M coach, to keep two punters on a roster.

[Brohm]

Interestingly, that Texas A&M coach also brought in Nolan Cromwell to be his OC. TT should give him a call and offer him his old ST job back :shock: :P

[swede]

my rant is more dirrected at all kickers in general, not just crosby

IMo a pro kicker should be damn near perfect with all the practice time they put in



Alex Karras was similarly indisposed toward placekicking specialists--particularly the foreigners who were hired for the sole purpose of "keeking a touchdown!"

You're old school, that's for sure.

:wink:

[swede]

The thing that drove Stock nuts was Ryan reverting to his CFL technique. He'd take a 3 step approach when really trying to hammer one. 3 steps = a blocked punt. the ST coach's ultimate nightmare.

...As if that were Stock's big problem. :roll:

How many penalties on returns during the Stock era? How many kicks and punts returned against us for big gains during the Stock era? How many blocked punts?

(I checked--2 blocked punts in 2007. Not good, but Ryan's dismissal still smacks of scapegoating to me.)

We're not really much better at punter since we let Ryan go.

[Guiness]

Hey Swede, good to see ya. Seems you haven't been around much lately, or did I just miss your posts?

Ryan was certainly not the calm, cool, collected type. The Scottish/Irish blood certainly shone through there! Tough to decide on a player like that. He had home run potential, and for a punter could really turn the tide of a game, a rare trait at that position.

Problem is, he could turn it either way. I guess GB decided the risk was greater than the reward.