Holmgren meets with Browns for 2d day

[Badgerinmaine]

Mike Holmgren might come out of retirement to try to rebuild the Cleveland Browns:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12664937/holmgren-talking-to-browns-about-taking-over-football-ops
CBS reports that he has had two days of meetings with the Browns.

[MJZiggy]

What for????? I mean...Cleveland?

[Guiness]

He had a good situation in Seattle, hard to see him leaving that for the mess that is Cleveland.

Only thing I can see is that he wants another crack at GM duties, and they're offering it to him? He had that taken away from him in Seattle, he was only the coach there the past couple of years.

[sharpe1027]

He had a good situation in Seattle, hard to see him leaving that for the mess that is Cleveland.

Only thing I can see is that he wants another crack at GM duties, and they're offering it to him? He had that taken away from him in Seattle, he was only the coach there the past couple of years.


$$$$ :lol:

[Guiness]

A quick google and look around (I swear I didn't before posting above) says he's looking at a 'czar' job, i.e. running the whole show over in Cleveland.

[Patler]

The GM position in Seattle is also open. A little voice in the back of my mind tells me that Holmgren is negotiating with Cleveland to up the pressure on and eventual offer from Seattle.

Holmgren has acknowledged time and again that he is a west coast guy. Why would he want to go to Cleveland when the Seattle job is probably his if he wants it?

[Fritz]

I thought Holmgren's performance as GM was unsatisfactory to the mucky mucks, and so they removed him from that spot? Or was it that he was having too difficult of a time wearing two hats?

[pbmax]

What for????? I mean...Cleveland?
What's wrong with Cleveland? :shock:

[sheepshead]

The guy was a terrible GM and a highly overrated head coach. He thinks he's Bill Parcels...he's not!

[pbmax]

Holmgren was removed Fritz, and in his place went Tim Ruskell from the Falcons, who was removed himself just in the last two weeks.

Patler is probably right, but this may also be his fallback position as the Seahawks retained an executive search firm to find the next President of Football Operations. The Seahawks have a financial/admin guy running the search who might want to slice off some of the authority a football czar like Parcells would have. That might also complicate Holmgren's return. I don't think he just wants to be GM.

[Badgerinmaine]

I think the problem in Seattle was indeed the "wearing two hats" thing. Don't forget, too, that he did take the Seahawks to the Super Bowl.

I suspect he likes the idea of a challenge of totally rebuilding a classic franchise from the ground up--much like he did in Green Bay as a coach.

[Patler]

I read an interesting article about why Holmgren failed as GM & coach in Seattle. The article stated that Holmgren refused to delegate authority on anything, he tried to control and decide everything, including the most insignificant things that even a GM-only would delegate to others. As a result, he simply couldn't do everything, and things become delayed, not completed thoroughly, or decided on too little input.

The article suggested that as he got older he changed even in his approach to coaching, and being "fired" as GM was a real awakening for him about his own limitations. He was willing to delegate more and more to his coordinators and assistant coaches. They felt his interest in being a GM was in roster development, player procurement; and that he would delegate much of the other stuff to people with other skills. In short, he would be more Wolf-like in his approach the next time around.

[cheesner]

The guy was a terrible GM and a highly overrated head coach. He thinks he's Bill Parcels...he's not!
I am with you on this one Sheep. Seattle started declining as soon as Thompson left. Poor drafting, poor FA acquisition and poor trading (a 1st for a NE WR whose name escapes me)

[sepporepi]

Deon Branch

[pbmax]

The guy was a terrible GM and a highly overrated head coach. He thinks he's Bill Parcels...he's not!
I am with you on this one Sheep. Seattle started declining as soon as Thompson left. Poor drafting, poor FA acquisition and poor trading (a 1st for a NE WR whose name escapes me)
Everyone knows that Ruskell's key free agent signings were the reason the Seahawks made it to the Super Bowl, not Thompson's 25 year plan. Please keep your narratives straight. Success by Thompson is always accidental and the result of other forces. :lol:

[pbmax]

I read an interesting article about why Holmgren failed as GM & coach in Seattle. The article stated that Holmgren refused to delegate authority on anything, he tried to control and decide everything, including the most insignificant things that even a GM-only would delegate to others. As a result, he simply couldn't do everything, and things become delayed, not completed thoroughly, or decided on too little input.

The article suggested that as he got older he changed even in his approach to coaching, and being "fired" as GM was a real awakening for him about his own limitations. He was willing to delegate more and more to his coordinators and assistant coaches. They felt his interest in being a GM was in roster development, player procurement; and that he would delegate much of the other stuff to people with other skills. In short, he would be more Wolf-like in his approach the next time around.
Any chance you got a link?

[TennesseePackerBacker]

The guy was a terrible GM and a highly overrated head coach. He thinks he's Bill Parcels...he's not!
I am with you on this one Sheep. Seattle started declining as soon as Thompson left. Poor drafting, poor FA acquisition and poor trading (a 1st for a NE WR whose name escapes me)
Everyone knows that Ruskell's key free agent signings were the reason the Seahawks made it to the Super Bowl, not Thompson's 25 year plan. Please keep your narratives straight. Success by Thompson is always accidental and the result of other forces. :lol:

If only we had gotten Canty and traded 3 of our draft picks for Peppers :( Maybe we would be 5-8.

[Patler]

I read an interesting article about why Holmgren failed as GM & coach in Seattle. The article stated that Holmgren refused to delegate authority on anything, he tried to control and decide everything, including the most insignificant things that even a GM-only would delegate to others. As a result, he simply couldn't do everything, and things become delayed, not completed thoroughly, or decided on too little input.

The article suggested that as he got older he changed even in his approach to coaching, and being "fired" as GM was a real awakening for him about his own limitations. He was willing to delegate more and more to his coordinators and assistant coaches. They felt his interest in being a GM was in roster development, player procurement; and that he would delegate much of the other stuff to people with other skills. In short, he would be more Wolf-like in his approach the next time around.
Any chance you got a link?

Not off hand, but I will look for it. It was a week or so ago, about the time Seattle opened up.

[Fritz]

So if I'm understanding all this correctly he doesn't really want to be a GM - he wants to be the president of a team, like Murphy with the Packers is?

To me, that would be boring. Revenue streams and all that crap. I think being GM would be much more interesting. Hours and hours and hours of film. Hours and hours and hours of meetings with scouts....and coaches. Hours and hours and hours with your chief negotiator.

Wait. I think I'd like to be the third string quarterback.

[pbmax]

So if I'm understanding all this correctly he doesn't really want to be a GM - he wants to be the president of a team, like Murphy with the Packers is?

To me, that would be boring. Revenue streams and all that crap. I think being GM would be much more interesting. Hours and hours and hours of film. Hours and hours and hours of meetings with scouts....and coaches. Hours and hours and hours with your chief negotiator.

Wait. I think I'd like to be the third string quarterback.
I think he wants to hire a GM like Parcells did, or at least two powerful personnel people (pro and college). Given that its Holmgren and that he is ambitious and confident, I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted a to get a foot in the door of administration as well.

[MJZiggy]

What for????? I mean...Cleveland?
What's wrong with Cleveland? :shock:

It's cold and he's retired. He could worm his way in at Tampa, or maybe get Jacksonville some attention--heaven knows they need it.

What happened to the coffee shop he and the missus were going to open?

[sheepshead]

I guess getting an earful from Bernie Kosar every Monday looked like more fun.

[cheesner]

I think being GM would be much more interesting. Hours and hours and hours of film. Hours and hours and hours of meetings with scouts....and coaches. Hours and hours and hours with your chief negotiator.
What?!?!?!? 30 mins per week on Packerrats and your good. Think of all the $ he can save on scouts.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Holmgren probably thinks he's going to be in charge of the Cleveland brownies distribution. He's just looking forward to all the free desserts.

[red]

looks like the browns have offered him a front office job paying between 8 and 10 million a year to do what parcells does

they say if he's hired, he'll bring in a gm and get rid of mangina, and maybe bring in a coach from his own tree

[pbmax]

What for????? I mean...Cleveland?
What's wrong with Cleveland? :shock:

It's cold and he's retired. He could worm his way in at Tampa, or maybe get Jacksonville some attention--heaven knows they need it.

What happened to the coffee shop he and the missus were going to open?
This assumes that he really wants to be retired. What he seems to want is another job outside of head coach.

[mraynrand]

looks like the browns have offered him a front office job paying between 8 and 10 million a year to do what parcells does

they say if he's hired, he'll bring in a gm and get rid of mangina, and maybe bring in a coach from his own tree

Ray Rhodes is not high on that list

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/gary-coleman-g.jpg

[MJZiggy]

Poor Gary gets all the abuse...

[MichiganPackerFan]

What for????? I mean...Cleveland?
What's wrong with Cleveland? :shock:

Cleveland ROCKS!!!

http://www.wchstv.com/abc/drew/drewcarey.jpg

[MichiganPackerFan]

I read an interesting article about why Holmgren failed as GM & coach in Seattle. The article stated that Holmgren refused to delegate authority on anything, he tried to control and decide everything, including the most insignificant things that even a GM-only would delegate to others. As a result, he simply couldn't do everything, and things become delayed, not completed thoroughly, or decided on too little input.

The article suggested that as he got older he changed even in his approach to coaching, and being "fired" as GM was a real awakening for him about his own limitations. He was willing to delegate more and more to his coordinators and assistant coaches. They felt his interest in being a GM was in roster development, player procurement; and that he would delegate much of the other stuff to people with other skills. In short, he would be more Wolf-like in his approach the next time around.

That's a hard thing to learn in management. Sometimes it takes more time to teach someone to do the job correctly than it does to simply do it yourself. However, if you invest the time into a person who can and will learn, it takes that pressure off in the long run.

[Scott Campbell]

Holy crap - that does look just like Ray Rhodes!

[hoosier]

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/gary-coleman-g.jpg


Talk about not aging well.

[Carolina_Packer]

Yeah, I don't understand Cleveland thinking that bringing in Holmgren is going to solve their football operations woes. Granted, he wore both hats in Seattle before he was stripped of his GM duties, but they shouldn't forget that he was. He's a better coach than overall talent evaluator, and I'd be surprised if Seattle hired him back as GM. Given the state of the Browns, pehpaps this is an OK move. They can't be any worse right now, but I have my doubts about Holmgren being the football czar there.

[Badgerinmaine]

The Seahawks made Holmgren an offer to come back, but he turned them down:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12684014/holmgren-declines-offer-to-rejoin-seahawks

[sheepshead]

Done deal in Cleveland per Florio. Good luck to the Browns...

[Cheesehead Craig]

Yeah, I don't understand Cleveland thinking that bringing in Holmgren is going to solve their football operations woes. Granted, he wore both hats in Seattle before he was stripped of his GM duties, but they shouldn't forget that he was. He's a better coach than overall talent evaluator, and I'd be surprised if Seattle hired him back as GM. Given the state of the Browns, pehpaps this is an OK move. They can't be any worse right now, but I have my doubts about Holmgren being the football czar there.

If nothing else, he's a big upgrade over what they have there now. I think the drafting there got better and even if he has issues wearing the dual hat, he can coach and develop QBs which is the main area of shittiness on that team right now.

[cheesner]

Yeah, I don't understand Cleveland thinking that bringing in Holmgren is going to solve their football operations woes. Granted, he wore both hats in Seattle before he was stripped of his GM duties, but they shouldn't forget that he was. He's a better coach than overall talent evaluator, and I'd be surprised if Seattle hired him back as GM. Given the state of the Browns, pehpaps this is an OK move. They can't be any worse right now, but I have my doubts about Holmgren being the football czar there.

If nothing else, he's a big upgrade over what they have there now. I think the drafting there got better and even if he has issues wearing the dual hat, he can coach and develop QBs which is the main area of shittiness on that team right now.
I am not sure how Holmgrem sitting behind a desk is going to help the QB development.

Personally, I think Holmgrem is over rated as a GM. I am predicting mediocrity for the Browns for the tenure of Holmgrem as their GM.

[swede]

...I am predicting mediocrity for the Browns...

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/339330-I-m-Going-Out-on-a-Limb-Here.jpg

As long as we're going out on limbs I'd like to suggest that Matt Millen will not be considered for the job of assistant GM in Cleveland.

[Badgerinmaine]

Here it is: Mike Holmgren's taking the Cleveland Browns team president job, but will not serve as head coach:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/12/report_mike_holmgren_not_comin.html


I wish him well in turning around a classic NFL franchise that has had a rocky road since returning to the league.

[Badgerinmaine]

This is what I was trying to post--for some reason it came out blank (and in spite of the url name, Mike Holmgren IS taking the job as team president but will not coach the team):

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/12/report_mike_holmgren_not_comin.html

I wish him well turning around a great historic franchise that has mostly been awful since returning to the league in 1999.

[sheepshead]

Yeah, I don't understand Cleveland thinking that bringing in Holmgren is going to solve their football operations woes. Granted, he wore both hats in Seattle before he was stripped of his GM duties, but they shouldn't forget that he was. He's a better coach than overall talent evaluator, and I'd be surprised if Seattle hired him back as GM. Given the state of the Browns, pehpaps this is an OK move. They can't be any worse right now, but I have my doubts about Holmgren being the football czar there.

If nothing else, he's a big upgrade over what they have there now. I think the drafting there got better and even if he has issues wearing the dual hat, he can coach and develop QBs which is the main area of shittiness on that team right now.
I am not sure how Holmgrem sitting behind a desk is going to help the QB development.

Personally, I think Holmgrem is over rated as a GM. I am predicting mediocrity for the Browns for the tenure of Holmgrem as their GM.

Over rated? No he is rated just right. He sucked. He failed miserably. He was fired.

[KYPack]

Holmy might be able to do a President job. He knows what not to do now. He will hire a GM and a coach and let them hang if they don't do the job.

He has two models to follow. The Parcells model and the Millen model.

Big Bill hired a coach and GM and drove 'em mercilessly. Millen acted as the de facto GM and hired a bunch of coaches. His poor drafts insured Det would never make it.

Holmy is a smart guy and knows he is no GM/talent guru. This is his chance to work from the top. He gets his coach and GM and let's them take the fall. If anything, he gets a fat retirement and secures his place on the game.

I think he is nuts. Cleveland is a tough place to live for a West Coaster.

[sheepshead]

I agree this is anything but a match made in heaven. The biggest thing in Cleveland beside Jim Browns ego will be the over-rated blowhards.