Good Draft Picks since 2005

[RashanGary]

Bold = Impact players
Underline = Solid Starter
Italics = Solid Backup, wanna replace starter

Aaron Rodgers
Nick Collins
Brady Poppinga

Greg Jennings
Jason Spitz
Johny Jolly
AJ Hawk
Darryn Colledge

Will Blackmon (returner)

Mason Crosby
Korey Hall
James Jones

Brandon Jackson
Desmond Bishop
Allen Barbre

Jermichael Finley

Jordy Nelson
Josh Sitton

Matt Flynn
Brett Swain
Jeremy Thompson

Clay Matthews
BJ Raji

TJ Lang
Brad Jones

Quinn Johnson
Jarius Wynn
Brandon Underwood



By my count, we have about 28 players that belong in the NFL that we drafted in the last 5 drafts or about 6 per year. Most teams only get 8 draft picks per year, so I think we're doing pretty good just looking at quantity of young talent that should be here for a while.

6 have shown signs of being impact players with the possibility of more emerging as these draft classes develop. That's about 1 impact player per year (not bad and honestly not even complete).

17 have either proven or shown strong signs of being solid starters in the NFL. Considering there are only 22 starting positions on offense and defense, that's not a bad number if you're also sprinkling in undrafted players like Tramon, resigning your own like Barnett and Jenkins, trading for players like Grant and picking up occasional UFA's like Woodson, Pickett or Chillar.



Clearly the present is bright, but I'd argue the future is brighter. There may not be a cap, but most teams are functioning under a budget and the new rules allow teams to keep their players longer (giving leverage to sign their own at fair prices). I'd argue that we have a lot more money to spend over the next few years. I'd argue that a lot of our players, if we choose to keep them, will only get better in the primes of their careers. I'd argue that Ted Thompson has shown he can draft pretty well so new talent will continue to be added.

I'd say this is about what many of us envisioned 4 or 5 years ago when we heard Ted Thompson speak and learned about his philosophy.

[RashanGary]

And you can say, "we're losing Woodson, Clifton, Driver and Tausher"


Well, don't forget, Thompson has brought in guys like Woodson, Rodgers, Collins, Sitton, Raji, Spitz, Finley and others. . . . It's not like he doesn't have a history of bringing in talent.

I'd argue Thompson brings in talent faster than we're going to lose it over the next 3-5 years.

Certainly an argument can be made to counter my belief and that's OK. We can state opinions and see who's opinions can stand the test of time. I've had some that don't and some that do, but Thompson and the overall direction of the Packers, I guess, has been my core issue so it's nice to see it developing like I thought it might.

[RashanGary]

One more thing to consider:

This is 5 years after the Packers aged off a cliff, lost all of their talent and pretty much rebuilt with almost no solid core of veteran players.


In 5 more years, the core of veterans is going to be the ones Thompson chooses to keep of these 28 (along with others like Tramon, Bigby, and others). Guys like Rodgers, Jennings, Finley, Sitton, Raji, Matthews, Spitz, etc. . . These are going to be the new veteran core. I have a feeling the new veteran core is going to be richer and more impressive than the 6 or 7 guys Sherman left 5 years ago.

And all of the new talent Thompson brings in over the next few years isn't going to be added to junk, it's going to be added to something that's already really good.

I've argued and still believe that Thompson's philosophy was going to have an accumulating effect. I believe that as much now as I did the first time I argued it 4 years ago and probably more. It looks really good, honestly.

[RashanGary]

And many were on this boat, but there were some extreme Thompson haters that would not back off hating him and thinkign he was here to ruin the Packers.

Those posters, for the most part, aren't the type with integrity so I don't expect an, "I was wrong" from too many, but really, that's about what should be said.

If not now, in the next 5 years, when I believe the Packers will prove to be an elite team in the NFL, you'd think it should be expected.

Probably won't happen though.

[bbbffl66]

And many were on this boat, but there were some extreme Thompson haters that would not back off hating him and thinkign he was here to ruin the Packers.

Those posters, for the most part, aren't the type with integrity so I don't expect an, "I was wrong" from too many, but really, that's about what should be said.

If not now, in the next 5 years, when I believe the Packers will prove to be an elite team in the NFL, you'd think it should be expected.

Probably won't happen though.

Just curious. If it doesn't work, will you admit you were wrong?

[PlantPage55]

Just curious. If it doesn't work, will you admit you were wrong?

He won't have to, when we win a couple playoff games this very year. 8-)

[RashanGary]

Just curious. If it doesn't work, will you admit you were wrong?

Always do. It's respecting the game.


But "the Packers being the laughing stock of the NFL when Brett Favre left because he carried this team" and "what actually happened" seem like two different things.

I see the signs of this team being pointed in the right direction. I think it's abundantly clear, but if it turns out that it's not the case, sure, I'll be here giving props to those I argued hardest with.

[bbbffl66]

Just curious. If it doesn't work, will you admit you were wrong?

He won't have to, when we win a couple playoff games this very year. 8-)

Works for me! :D

[sheepshead]

Hawk's not an impact player?

[hoosier]

Hawk was basically benched earlier this year and has not been part of the regular nickel package until recently. I'm not sure what Justin Harrell's definition of an "impact player" is, but I think I know what a non-impact player is when I see it!

[Fritz]

I think you can italicize Daryn Colledge.

[vince]

Bold Josh Sitton, who's the top-rated pass-blocking guard in the NFL and #6 overall, according to Pro Football Focus.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=G&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

[Noodle]

Vince -- interesting rankings. But I do call bullshit on a ranking system that has Colledge bettering Steve Hutchinson.

Hutch is the second best guard in the league at pass blocking, according to these rankings, but he's near the bottom on run blocking. The times I've seen him, he's pretty dang good at run blocking. So unless Ras or some of the other MN posters say it's true, he sucks at run blocking this year, then I have to question these rankings big time.

[ThunderDan]

Vince -- interesting rankings. But I do call bullshit on a ranking system that has Colledge bettering Steve Hutchinson.

Hutch is the second best guard in the league at pass blocking, according to these rankings, but he's near the bottom on run blocking. The times I've seen him, he's pretty dang good at run blocking. So unless Ras or some of the other MN posters say it's true, he sucks at run blocking this year, then I have to question these rankings big time.

I don't know Noodle. You have AP who has to be a top 2 RB in the league and he only has 3 100+ yard rushing games. He's had 4 games that he hasn't even reached 70 yards. 269 att 1,200 y 4.5 ypc.

Ryan Grant 247 att 1,068 y 4.3 ypc, similar numbers for a back with nowhere near the talent of AP

Chris Johnson 272 att 1,626 y 6.0 ypc, similar talent outstanding stats

[HarveyWallbangers]

A lot of scouts think Hutcinson dropped off last year and has dropped off even more this year. AP's low yards/carry (for him) might attest to that.

[vince]

You can call whatever you want or provide any fan's general opinion of any player you want Noodle. Who the hell knows what that fan's judgement, knowledge, biases or subjectivity are when stating those general opinions... You don't.

The group I linked to here purports to provide an objective grade of every player and on every play on every play of the season based on the result achieved. Here's how and what they grade...
http://www.profootballfocus.com/about.php#grad3

Take it for whatever you will. It's not based on ability or skill. It's based on results. I certainly haven't done an in-depth study of every player of every play of every game this year. I'd venture to say none of us have. I'll put a bit of credence (certainly more than anyone of us) into an objective scoring system from a group that has over someone's opinion.

[Noodle]

Vince -- don't take my bullshit call as in any way crapping on you. One of the great things about this board is that people actually back up what they say with stats and rankings of the kind you posted. You and folks like you make this place far superior to the typical "he sucks" analysis you usually get.

All I'm saying, in a very subjective way, is that it's hard for me to accept the notion that Colledge might grade out better than Hutchinson. I've seen Colledge do good things (he is exceptionally good beyond the LOS when he blocks downfield), but I've also seem him just get rag dolled and destroyed at the POA.

But Vince's larger point is that Sitton is a stud, and with that I would not disagree.

[SkinBasket]

but I've also seem him just get rag dolled and destroyed at the POA.

The POA? Is that a new strip club?

[Noodle]

Sorry, Skin, Point of Attack on runs for the "destroyed" part, "rag dolled" in pass protection.

But if I can be sorry for writting obscurely, can't you apologize for freaking me out with your latest avatar? At least pick something with less friggin movement, fer cris' sakes.

[swede]

Sorry, Skin, Point of Attack on runs for the "destroyed" part, "rag dolled" in pass protection.

But if I can be sorry for writting obscurely, can't you apologize for freaking me out with your latest avatar? At least pick something with less friggin movement, fer cris' sakes.

Ny now, Noodle, you should know that the best thing about every one of Skin's avatars is that it will be less creepy than his next one.

[steve823]

Bold Josh Sitton, who's the top-rated pass-blocking guard in the NFL and #6 overall, according to Pro Football Focus.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=G&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

HAHA. So i was checking out this system and I went to Special Teams. Scrolled all the way to the bottom and guess who number 830..our buddy jarret bush hahaha

[vince]

Vince -- don't take my bullshit call as in any way crapping on you. One of the great things about this board is that people actually back up what they say with stats and rankings of the kind you posted. You and folks like you make this place far superior to the typical "he sucks" analysis you usually get.

All I'm saying, in a very subjective way, is that it's hard for me to accept the notion that Colledge might grade out better than Hutchinson. I've seen Colledge do good things (he is exceptionally good beyond the LOS when he blocks downfield), but I've also seem him just get rag dolled and destroyed at the POA.

But Vince's larger point is that Sitton is a stud, and with that I would not disagree.
I hear what you're saying Noodle, and I didn't take it personally or intend to attack you. I just have a very hard time with putting more weight on reputation, press clippings, draft position, combine numbers, contract size, talking-head spew designed to get attention, popularity, fanaticism, personal bias, etc. than a system that is at the very least set up to provide objective analysis based on actual results on the football field - whether it is my own opinion or most anyone else's who is likely basing that opinion on a more random and incomplete set of criteria and biased perspective - not to mention people's egos involved, which makes us feel and communicate greater certainty in such opinions than is warranted.

There are a lot in these ratings that I would disagree with, but I'm hard pressed to do that because I haven't done the work they have, nor have I set up a system which is at least designed to eliminate all information other than actual results on the football field on Sundays. Because it is humans which are doing the play-by-play analysis for each individual player, there is definitely subjectivity involved, as there is with many statistics that define "success" or "failure" on the field, such as sacks, drops, etc.

I also would say that, based on the methodology of the rating process involved on that website, I'd put more weight on the top and bottom of these lists than the middle, as the rating system is based on the differentiating between actual results and how an "average" NFL player would be expected to perform. They explicitly state that most players on most plays receive a "0" rating, which is the norm. It is only the "successes" or "failures" (and the degree to which they are such) which define the differences.

Jarret Bush, who Steve identified as the lowest rated ST player, is a great case in point. He is likely doing an OK job on the overwhelming majority of his special teams snaps, but his negative impacts have been strong. His bad score is based almost wholly on penalties. Also, the fact that his "potential," off-season work, ass-kissing in practice, speed, attitude, team chemistry - whatever it may be - gets him out on the field on just about every special teams play. He's played a lot more plays than most everyone else on the list - without positive results to offset those negatives - which drags him down to the bottom of the list below that which those guys who go between active and inactive or even between practice squad and 53-man roster and get the occassional ST snaps are likely be go. It's like the MLB pitcher who leads the league in home runs allowed. He's probably a decent (or developing) pitcher who's having a down year or else they wouldn't keep sending him out to the mound every five days.

In any event, this website's ratings are at least set up to be based on more facts within a more relevant context - and less bullshit - than anything else I've seen anywhere.

Sorry for the long-winded, off-topic response.

[SkinBasket]

Sorry, Skin, Point of Attack on runs for the "destroyed" part, "rag dolled" in pass protection.

But if I can be sorry for writting obscurely, can't you apologize for freaking me out with your latest avatar? At least pick something with less friggin movement, fer cris' sakes.

To be honest, I knew what POA was, it's just hard for me to imagine Colledge and point of attack being used in the same sentence, even when the modifiers are destroyed and rag dolled. I agree completely with your thoughts that he's fine as a kind of roaming downfield guy, but at the line, he's still pretty inconsistent.

That and I like the idea of strippers beating up Colledge.

[MJZiggy]

Sorry, Skin, Point of Attack on runs for the "destroyed" part, "rag dolled" in pass protection.

But if I can be sorry for writting obscurely, can't you apologize for freaking me out with your latest avatar? At least pick something with less friggin movement, fer cris' sakes.

If you want the avatars to stop, hit the escape key and it stops all motion on the page.